[9750] in Perl-Users-Digest
Perl-Users Digest, Issue: 3343 Volume: 8
daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (Perl-Users Digest)
Tue Aug 4 16:07:23 1998
Date: Tue, 4 Aug 98 13:00:26 -0700
From: Perl-Users Digest <Perl-Users-Request@ruby.OCE.ORST.EDU>
To: Perl-Users@ruby.OCE.ORST.EDU (Perl-Users Digest)
Perl-Users Digest Tue, 4 Aug 1998 Volume: 8 Number: 3343
Today's topics:
500 Server error <minich@globalnet.co.uk>
Re: 500 Server error (Steve Linberg)
Re: 500 Server error (I R A Aggie)
Re: 500 Server error (Abigail)
Re: <SELECT multiple...> only returns 1st value bigbeta69@my-dejanews.com
Re: <SELECT multiple...> only returns 1st value <REPLY_TO_lastronin@earthlink.net>
Re: And sometimes the FAQ's suck (Abigail)
Re: Argh! (Nem W Schlecht)
Re: Argh! (Craig Berry)
CDK (curses development kit) & perl <jens.calisti@eiskonzept.com>
cgi problem mullsjo@hem2.passagen.se
Re: comp.lang.perl.announce redux lvirden@cas.org
Re: comp.lang.perl.announce redux (Mike Stok)
Re: comp.lang.perl.announce redux (I R A Aggie)
Re: comp.lang.perl.announce redux (Larry Rosler)
Re: File already opened by another process? <rjk@fprsdev3.fmr.com>
FREE Shopping Cart and Bulletin Board veronica@iminet.com
Re: FREE Shopping Cart and Bulletin Board <marcs@znep.com>
Getting some weird problems. <benk@netscape.com>
Re: Help! Stuck with an array assignment problem (Mike Stok)
Re: hiding user input (Michael J Gebis)
Re: hiding user input <jimbo@soundimages.co.uk>
Re: hiding user input <upsetter@ziplink.net>
Re: hiding user input <upsetter@ziplink.net>
Re: hiding user input <dgris@rand.dimensional.com>
Re: hiding user input (Abigail)
Special: Digest Administrivia (Last modified: 12 Mar 98 (Perl-Users-Digest Admin)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Tue, 4 Aug 1998 19:10:30 +0100
From: "Martin" <minich@globalnet.co.uk>
Subject: 500 Server error
Message-Id: <6q7ire$db3$1@heliodor.xara.net>
Hi!
I have a CGI that is working fine on an NT server but won't do
anything on a Unix one. I just get this message. What would
generally cause this sort of message?
500 Server Error
The server encountered an internal error or misconfiguration
and was unable to complete your request.
Please contact the server administrator,
and inform them of the time the error occurred , and anything
you might have done that may have caused the error.
Error: HTTPd: malformed header from script
/usr/local/etc/httpd/cgi-bin/submit.pl
Martin
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 04 Aug 1998 14:41:42 -0400
From: linberg@literacy.upenn.edu (Steve Linberg)
Subject: Re: 500 Server error
Message-Id: <linberg-0408981441420001@projdirc.literacy.upenn.edu>
In article <6q7ire$db3$1@heliodor.xara.net>, "Martin"
<minich@globalnet.co.uk> wrote:
> Hi!
>
> I have a CGI that is working fine on an NT server but won't do
> anything on a Unix one. I just get this message. What would
> generally cause this sort of message?
>
> 500 Server Error
> The server encountered an internal error or misconfiguration
> and was unable to complete your request.
This type of message is generally caused by an internal error or
misconfiguration, with the results being that the server is unable to
complete your request.
:)
Awfully hard to diagnose anything beyond that if you don't provide some
additional detail and source code.
_____________________________________________________________________
Steve Linberg National Center on Adult Literacy
Systems Programmer &c. University of Pennsylvania
linberg@literacy.upenn.edu http://www.literacyonline.org
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 04 Aug 1998 15:04:26 -0500
From: fl_aggie@thepentagon.com (I R A Aggie)
Subject: Re: 500 Server error
Message-Id: <fl_aggie-0408981504260001@aggie.coaps.fsu.edu>
In article <6q7ire$db3$1@heliodor.xara.net>, "Martin"
<minich@globalnet.co.uk> wrote:
+ Error: HTTPd: malformed header from script
+ /usr/local/etc/httpd/cgi-bin/submit.pl
Try 'perl -c submit.pl' and see if you have syntax errors or the like.
You may not have the proper end-of-record terminators for a unix
file...
James
------------------------------
Date: 4 Aug 1998 19:33:36 GMT
From: abigail@fnx.com (Abigail)
Subject: Re: 500 Server error
Message-Id: <6q7nmg$2rf$20@client3.news.psi.net>
Martin (minich@globalnet.co.uk) wrote on MDCCXCIX September MCMXCIII in
<URL: news:6q7ire$db3$1@heliodor.xara.net>:
++ Hi!
++
++ I have a CGI that is working fine on an NT server but won't do
++ anything on a Unix one. I just get this message. What would
++ generally cause this sort of message?
Errors in line 17 generally.
++ 500 Server Error
It could be a billion things. There's a faq. Find it. Read it.
And then post in a right group.
Abigail
--
perl5.004 -wMMath::BigInt -e'$^V=new Math::BigInt+qq;$^F$^W783$[$%9889$^F47$|88768$^W596577669$%$^W5$^F3364$[$^W$^F$|838747$[8889739$%$|$^F673$%$^W98$^F76777$=56;;$^U=substr($]=>$|=>5)*(q.25..($^W=@^V))=>do{print+chr$^V%$^U;$^V/=$^U}while$^V!=$^W'
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 04 Aug 1998 18:25:54 GMT
From: bigbeta69@my-dejanews.com
Subject: Re: <SELECT multiple...> only returns 1st value
Message-Id: <6q7jni$9nu$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com>
oh.. sorry about posting in the wrong newsgroup.. But thanks for pointing me
to the cgi.pm file. that was very helpful.. and yeah, i did paste the wrong
chunk of code in my message in the 1st place.. i've been making waaay to many
careless errors for my own good..
-----== Posted via Deja News, The Leader in Internet Discussion ==-----
http://www.dejanews.com/rg_mkgrp.xp Create Your Own Free Member Forum
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 4 Aug 1998 15:12:39 -0400
From: "Ha" <REPLY_TO_lastronin@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: <SELECT multiple...> only returns 1st value
Message-Id: <6q7lqu$28m$1@holly.prod.itd.earthlink.net>
EEk!!!!
Everyone yells about using CGI.pm. People overcomplicate things and force
the rest of us to be lazy. It's wonderful to NOT reinvent the wheel. Then
again, if you don't even know the basics of wheel-ism, you're not gonna
learn much.
Here's the nuts & bolts that CGI.pm does, and everybody has one of these
subroutines floating around. Might as well roll your own. It's quicker,
easier, better for the learning process.
sub read_query_string
{
local ($buffer, @pairs, $pair, $name, $value, %FORM);
$ENV{'REQUEST_METHOD'} =~ tr/a-z/A-Z/;
if ($ENV{'REQUEST_METHOD'} eq "POST")
{
read(STDIN, $buffer, $ENV{'CONTENT_LENGTH'});
}
else
{
$buffer = $ENV{'QUERY_STRING'};
}
@pairs = split(/&/, $buffer);
foreach $pair (@pairs)
{
($name, $value) = split (/=/, $pair);
$value=~ tr/+/ /;
$value=~ s/%(..)/pack("C", hex($1))/eg;
$FORM{$name} .= "\t" if $FORM{$name}; # this tab delimits
$FORM{$name} .= $value;
}
%FORM;
}
at the top of your script, declare the hash:
%in = &read_query_string;
to get the individual values from a multiselect listbox... say your list is
named 'countries'
@countries = split(/\t/, $in{'countries'});
print "$countries[0]\n";
print "$countries[1]\n";
print "$countries[2]\n";
....
this removes the tab created by &read_query_string for multiple values. you
can use any delimiter you want, but since tab isn't recognized in HTML (just
acts like a simple space), it's convenient to use. to write all the user's
selection back into a string for printing to datafile, use join() and join
the items in your list with any delimiter you want:
$countries = join '::', @countries;
Cheers,
Ha Quach
mailto:info@r-go.com
------------------------------
Date: 4 Aug 1998 19:34:59 GMT
From: abigail@fnx.com (Abigail)
Subject: Re: And sometimes the FAQ's suck
Message-Id: <6q7np3$2rf$21@client3.news.psi.net>
Jay Taylor (sysop97@nospam.callisto.si.usherb.ca) wrote on MDCCXCIX
September MCMXCIII in <URL: news:35C73703.5B16@nospam.callisto.si.usherb.ca>:
++ >You could always try the documentation... the first page of perldoc
++ >perlre will tell you the answer.... In other words RTFM.
++
++ Not really!
++
++ And sometimes the FAQs suck or aren't tuned to non-guru users and become
++ long, boring and unreadable. I prefer this forum.
Then write a better one. Don't waste our time, or the bandwidth by
asking FAQs. Because it's extremely boring to read those questions
over and over again.
Abigail
--
perl -weprint\<\<EOT\; -eJust -eanother -ePerl -eHacker -eEOT
------------------------------
Date: 4 Aug 1998 13:27:20 -0500
From: nem@abattoir.cc.ndsu.nodak.edu (Nem W Schlecht)
Subject: Re: Argh!
Message-Id: <6q7jq8$bhb@abattoir.cc.ndsu.nodak.edu>
[courtesy copy e-mailed to author(s)]
In comp.lang.perl.misc, J. Pratt <jpratt@command-central.nmsd.k12.nm.us> wrote:
>
>First, I open a file with the filehandle A, then I read A into an array
>variable -- @what. Next, each line is assigned a number depending on
>its element sequence (duh:). The element number is printed along with a
>checkbox and the corresponding line of text. (ie [ ] 0 bleh@blah.com
>feh@fah.com) Here is the if() statement I am using..
[deletia]
>Ok, with that explained, here's the issue. At first, what I was
>planning on doing was having process() simply be a test if statement.
>For example, if ($param{$i} == 1) { print "test." } .. I was going to
>do that just to make sure it was executing a certain code if the
>checkbox was marked. However, this doesn't seem to be the approach to
>use. If you notice, $i = 0.. So, if I say if ($param{$i} == 1), it's
>going to fail. Because $i is 0. I thought if I did an if ($param{$i}
>@what = <A>;
This is a bad way of reading in a file. Largish files will take a long
time and large amount of memory to load like this. The following is much
nicer on the system, while doing the exact same thing:
push(@what, $_) while (<A>);
Hmm.. the value for a checkbox, as you are using it, will be "on" if
somebody checks the checkbox. Add a '-value => "1"' if you want the value
returned to be 1.
> for (@what) {
> print checkbox(-name=>"$i",-checked=>"0"),"$_","<br>";
> $i++; }
> print submit(-name=>'action',-value=>'Process');
>}
>sub process {
> if ($param{'$i'} == 1) {
> print "whatever.";
> }
>}
You probably want to put that $i in double quotes instead of single quotes.
Here's what I would do if I were you. In process(), you can use something
like the following to find all of the lines that were checked:
@lines = grep(/^\d+$/, param());
Assuming that you don't have any other web variables that are numbers. You
can itterate over that array and check that the param for all of them is
set to 'on' if you want.
Then we map() these over to an assoc. array, so that we can look them up
easily:
%lndel = map { $_ => 'skip' } @lines;
Now, all you have to do, is go over your data again, skipping the marked
lines.
for($i=0;$i<=$#what;++$i) {
print "$what[$i]<BR>" if ($lndel{$i} ne 'skip');
}
--
Nem W Schlecht nem@plains.nodak.edu
NDUS UNIX SysAdmin http://www.nodak.edu/~nem/
"Perl did the magic. I just waved the wand."
------------------------------
Date: 4 Aug 1998 19:36:23 GMT
From: cberry@cinenet.net (Craig Berry)
Subject: Re: Argh!
Message-Id: <6q7nrn$nkh$2@marina.cinenet.net>
Nem W Schlecht (nem@abattoir.cc.ndsu.nodak.edu) wrote:
: >@what = <A>;
:
: This is a bad way of reading in a file. Largish files will take a long
: time and large amount of memory to load like this. The following is much
: nicer on the system, while doing the exact same thing:
:
: push(@what, $_) while (<A>);
First, that can be simplified to
push @what, $_ while <A>;
Second, how is that better? Seems that @what will still end up requiring
the same amount of memory in either case, and that the overhead for
explicitly pushing each line will be larger than the overhead of doing a
list-context <>. I'd Benchmark this, but can't work out a good way to set
up the test.
---------------------------------------------------------------------
| Craig Berry - cberry@cinenet.net
--*-- Home Page: http://www.cinenet.net/users/cberry/home.html
| Member of The HTML Writers Guild: http://www.hwg.org/
"Every man and every woman is a star."
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 4 Aug 1998 20:41:03 +0200
From: "Jens Calisti" <jens.calisti@eiskonzept.com>
Subject: CDK (curses development kit) & perl
Message-Id: <6q7kjg$gpr$1@black.news.nacamar.net>
Hi,
i cannot compile the cdk it always says cdk.h not found.
a locate cdk.h give always /usr/src/linux/include/...
(and that cdk.h is a kernel driver for a serial card)
Could someone help me ? Or does someone have
the actual adress of the author ? (the adress in
the docs seems to be dead :-( )
Thanks,
Jens Calisti
jens.calisti@eiskonzept.com
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 04 Aug 1998 17:55:07 GMT
From: mullsjo@hem2.passagen.se
Subject: cgi problem
Message-Id: <6q7hts$5m2$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com>
A form on a html page sends informatin to my perl script, but I don't want it
to change location when the scripts replies. What is the maagic header from
the script to make the browser stay on the same location?
please mail a copy to me.
/johan
-----== Posted via Deja News, The Leader in Internet Discussion ==-----
http://www.dejanews.com/rg_mkgrp.xp Create Your Own Free Member Forum
------------------------------
Date: 4 Aug 1998 17:35:47 GMT
From: lvirden@cas.org
Subject: Re: comp.lang.perl.announce redux
Message-Id: <6q7gpj$q3c$1@srv38s4u.cas.org>
According to Abigail <abigail@fnx.com>:
:are written in Perl. Would there be a group of readers of clpa that are
:interested in those applications? (Yeah, I'm looking for software that I
Yep - say I don't have a programming language other than perl. I want to
come to some perl group to find out what kinds of applications have been
written in perl.
--
<URL:mailto:lvirden@cas.org> Quote: In heaven, there is no panic,
<*> O- <URL:http://www.teraform.com/%7Elvirden/> only planning.
Unless explicitly stated to the contrary, nothing in this posting
should be construed as representing my employer's opinions.
------------------------------
Date: 4 Aug 1998 19:12:01 GMT
From: mike@stok.co.uk (Mike Stok)
Subject: Re: comp.lang.perl.announce redux
Message-Id: <6q7me1$g3c@news-central.tiac.net>
In article <6q7a04$fm$1@client3.news.psi.net>, Abigail <abigail@fnx.com> wrote:
>Isn't it odd? People complain about the low quality of translations,
>yet insists on having announcements translated to English - cause they
>won't be able to read the original message.
>People, if you can't read French, German, Italian, or Polish, that's
>your loss. Don't punish others by forcing them to translate due to
>your own shortcomings.
That seems a little crass, English is a reasonable language to use as many
people have it as a second or first language. The point of language is to
communicate and English tends to be very forgiving about things like word
order and matching sentential elements while retaining the essence of the
message. It seems ridiculous that I should know every language in the
world just in case someone posts in it.
Another benefit English has is that most native speakers use it so badly
that they are unlikely to pick up subtle errors made by others. English
does seem to be the lingua franca of technology, you should check out some
of the keywords in perl some time.
em foo bibble,
Mike
--
mike@stok.co.uk | The "`Stok' disclaimers" apply.
http://www.stok.co.uk/~mike/ | PGP fingerprint FE 56 4D 7D 42 1A 4A 9C
http://www.tiac.net/users/stok/ | 65 F3 3F 1D 27 22 B7 41
stok@colltech.com | Collective Technologies (work)
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 04 Aug 1998 15:13:55 -0500
From: fl_aggie@thepentagon.com (I R A Aggie)
Subject: Re: comp.lang.perl.announce redux
Message-Id: <fl_aggie-0408981513560001@aggie.coaps.fsu.edu>
In article <6q7a04$fm$1@client3.news.psi.net>, abigail@fnx.com wrote:
+ Isn't it odd? People complain about the low quality of translations,
+ yet insists on having announcements translated to English - cause they
+ won't be able to read the original message.
And if your intent is to gain the widest possible audience, then one
should use the linga franca of the business, which for the momement
is English.
Personally, I don't care what language the announcement is posted
in. Just so long as the subject line isn't in English, I won't get
annoyed.
+ People, if you can't read French, German, Italian, or Polish, that's
+ your loss. Don't punish others by forcing them to translate due to
+ your own shortcomings.
True enough. On the other hand, if your goal is to get your software
out in front of as many people as possible, and to get them to use it,
perhaps writing the documentation in Swahili isn't feasible...
James
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 4 Aug 1998 12:43:03 -0700
From: lr@hpl.hp.com (Larry Rosler)
Subject: Re: comp.lang.perl.announce redux
Message-Id: <MPG.1031041d6f0d6ab2989752@nntp.hpl.hp.com>
[Posted to comp.lang.perl.misc and a copy mailed.]
In article <6q7me1$g3c@news-central.tiac.net> on 4 Aug 1998 19:12:01 GMT,
Mike Stok <mike@stok.co.uk> says...
...
> Another benefit English has is that most native speakers use it so badly
> that they are unlikely to pick up subtle errors made by others.
This sounds like a quote from 'My Fair Lady'.
> English
> does seem to be the lingua franca of technology, you should check out some
> of the keywords in perl some time.
Actually, one should be more specific and say 'American English'. I
haven't noticed any 'whilst' keyword in Perl. As you are well aware.
:-)
--
Larry Rosler
Hewlett-Packard Laboratories
http://www.hpl.hp.com/personal/Larry_Rosler/
lr@hpl.hp.com
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 04 Aug 1998 18:54:22 GMT
From: Rick Meldrum <rjk@fprsdev3.fmr.com>
Subject: Re: File already opened by another process?
Message-Id: <35C7594F.75CD@fprsdev3.fmr.com>
Russ Allbery wrote:
>
> JJ Good <address@in.sig> writes:
>
> > Is there a way in perl to check if a file is already opened by another
> > process running on the system?
>
> Not unless you use locking. For most applications where that question is
> important, you should be using locking. (See the entry for flock in man
> perlfunc or use perldoc -f flock.)
If you are using Unix, fuser might be available to you. (I have used
it under Solaris and Puramid OSX)
I have also seen a utility (gnu I believe) called lsof
that will tell you if another process is using the file.
I use lsof a *lot*... (I haven't figured out how to get ftp to use
flock :-)
If you are using NT or Windows then you're on your own!
HTH
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 04 Aug 1998 19:01:21 GMT
From: veronica@iminet.com
Subject: FREE Shopping Cart and Bulletin Board
Message-Id: <6q7lq1$edh$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com>
I found an awesome web-based shopping cart for FREE at
http://www.321website.com
-----== Posted via Deja News, The Leader in Internet Discussion ==-----
http://www.dejanews.com/rg_mkgrp.xp Create Your Own Free Member Forum
------------------------------
Date: 4 Aug 1998 19:38:01 GMT
From: Marc Slemko <marcs@znep.com>
Subject: Re: FREE Shopping Cart and Bulletin Board
Message-Id: <6q7nup$k4b$1@scanner.worldgate.com>
In <6q7lq1$edh$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com> veronica@iminet.com writes:
>I found an awesome web-based shopping cart for FREE at
>http://www.321website.com
Wow, you must be pretty smart to be able to access your own web
site and find things on it.
Fake third-party testimonials are lame. Please keep your
advertising off of these inappropriate newsgroup.
Followups redirected.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 04 Aug 1998 12:03:40 -0700
From: BJ Kim <benk@netscape.com>
Subject: Getting some weird problems.
Message-Id: <35C75B0C.2D4C6407@netscape.com>
Basically, I'm using a perl script to change settings for a
database-like software, restart the database, and add some entires.
When I do this manually, everything works fine. I've narrowed it down
to the fact that restarting the database using the script isn't working
properly even though output is saying that the database is being
restarted. I've used both system("command") and `command`. I'm sure I
can't get any help with such limited information but maybe someone out
there knows what's going on.
------------------------------
Date: 4 Aug 1998 18:30:52 GMT
From: mike@stok.co.uk (Mike Stok)
Subject: Re: Help! Stuck with an array assignment problem
Message-Id: <6q7k0s$eqr@news-central.tiac.net>
In article <6q77ee$h56$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com>,
<bolesbr1@memorialmed.com> wrote:
>I've been having a hard time trying to grasp the concept of arrays in perl by
>trying to read the faqs and previous news posts. What I would like to do is
>this: I want to assign a whole array to one element of another array and be
>able to print out the one element. I know I need to do something like this:
>
>$a[0]=@b;
Because you're assigning the array @b into a scalar value perl puts the
number of elements in @b in $a[0].
You can't put arrays into scalars, but you can put a reference to an array
into the scalar in a couple of ways
$a[0] = \@b; # reference to @b
$a[0] = [@b]; # refrerence to an anonymous copy of @b
which you use depends on whether you want changes in @b to be seen when
you look at @{$a[0]}.
>But when I try to print out $a[0], like this:
>
>print $a[0];
>
>I don't get the same thing I get when I do this:
>
>print @b;
Perl doen't automatically dereference for you, so if you used one of my
assignments above
print @{$a[0]};
should work and you should be able to use expressions like $a[0][0] to get
at elements of the array referenced by $a[0].
Check out the perllol (list of lists) and perldsc (data structures
cookbook) man pages for more examples, and try a few things under the
debugger where you can use X to examine things e.g.
$ perl -de 1
Loading DB routines from perl5db.pl version 1.01
Emacs support available.
Enter h or `h h' for help.
main::(-e:1): 1
DB<1> @b = (1)
DB<2> $a[0] = \@b
DB<3> $a[1] = \@b
DB<4> $a[2] = [@b]
DB<5> $a[3] = [@b]
DB<6> @b = (2)
DB<7> X a
@a = (
0 ARRAY(0x14019fad8)
0 2
1 ARRAY(0x14019fad8)
-> REUSED_ADDRESS
2 ARRAY(0x14019f978)
0 1
3 ARRAY(0x14019fa58)
0 1
)
Hope this helps,
Mike
--
mike@stok.co.uk | The "`Stok' disclaimers" apply.
http://www.stok.co.uk/~mike/ | PGP fingerprint FE 56 4D 7D 42 1A 4A 9C
http://www.tiac.net/users/stok/ | 65 F3 3F 1D 27 22 B7 41
stok@colltech.com | Collective Technologies (work)
------------------------------
Date: 4 Aug 1998 18:01:17 GMT
From: gebis@noble.ecn.purdue.edu (Michael J Gebis)
Subject: Re: hiding user input
Message-Id: <6q7i9d$qt0@mozo.cc.purdue.edu>
Daniel Grisinger <dgris@rand.dimensional.com> writes:
}The problem, at least from my perspective, is one of reliability.
}I know that a lot of people have well-connected news servers and
}that those people don't ever miss articles. There are enough others,
}though, like myself, for whom news is an extremely unreliable
}medium. For those people e-mailed cc's are important, as that is
}the only way to make sure that someone gets to hear all of a discussion.
}And perhaps it's only me, but I feel it is important to not exclude
}people simply because they are stuck with a poorly configured
}news server and an unresponsive admin. An occasional extra piece
}of mail seems like such a small thing :-).
Sometimes, however, when it says "courtesy copy" it really means,
"Listen to me, dammit, I will NOT be ignored!" Of course, it's hard to
tell the difference.
}I wrote a little bot named Mortimer last night that will monitor
}clpm and automatically repost any X-No-Archive messages without
}that header. Unless someone can provide a compelling reason
}not to, I am going to start Mortimer monitoring this group
}later today, and this will hopefully no longer be an issue.
Please don't use a bot of enforce your morality on others.
Please don't use a bot to double-post articles.
Please don't use a bot to repost from people who have deliberately
taken steps to prevent their digital image from being enlarged.
Please don't create a bot which will no doubt be a flame magnet.
You'll notice that I do not use X-No-Archive on my posts. I'm glad
that I had that choice. Please don't take that choice away from me.
--
Mike Gebis gebis@ecn.purdue.edu mgebis@eternal.net
------------------------------
Date: 04 Aug 1998 19:19:13 +0100
From: Jim Brewer <jimbo@soundimages.co.uk>
Subject: Re: hiding user input
Message-Id: <uzpdkk3tq.fsf@jimbosntserver.soundimages.co.uk>
gbacon@cs.uah.edu (Greg Bacon) writes:
> Perhaps you misunderstood my intentions. I wasn't trying to be original
> or funny. I was demonstrating a point. I'm sorry that this disturbs
> your reality.
Which reality is that? The one where you find it so necessary to hold
the torch aloft for us morons? How about the one where you are so
benevolent and generous with your time, despite having a job, to
assist the rest of us ignorant twits? Or, how about this, the reality
that reasonable behaviour results in reasonable behaviour?
I was under the impression that you were a proponent of the moderated
forum? Has this changed? If not, then simply refrain from insulting us
with your brilliance and make your way there. If and when you choose
to respond is this forum please do so in a reasonable and courteous
way.
Jim Brewer
------------------------------
Date: 4 Aug 1998 18:35:08 GMT
From: Scratchie <upsetter@ziplink.net>
Subject: Re: hiding user input
Message-Id: <6q7k8s$l1r@fridge.shore.net>
Russ Allbery <rra@stanford.edu> wrote:
: You do realize that Gary isn't the only person who doesn't appreciate
: courtesy copies in e-mail, don't you?
I found it amusing that one expert would send me a "courtesy" cc of the
most trivial follow-up imagineable, but wouldn't even accept email from
me when I replied from that same account.
--Art
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
National Ska & Reggae Calendar
http://www.agitators.com/calendar/
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: 4 Aug 1998 18:32:19 GMT
From: Scratchie <upsetter@ziplink.net>
Subject: Re: hiding user input
Message-Id: <6q7k3j$l1r@fridge.shore.net>
Greg Bacon <gbacon@cs.uah.edu> wrote:
: Over and over? Perhaps you should check your memory and DejaNews.
: Perhaps your threshold for over and over is extremely low. When I
: searched DejaNews for articles in news.groups from gbacon@cs.uah.edu
: that contain the words beating and wife, I found one single article,
: <6lon2q$ajj$2@info.uah.edu>. I don't use X-No-Archive, either.
You definitely used it more than once... I recall seeing it two or three
times in a single thread.
--Art
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
National Ska & Reggae Calendar
http://www.agitators.com/calendar/
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 04 Aug 1998 19:05:28 GMT
From: Daniel Grisinger <dgris@rand.dimensional.com>
Subject: Re: hiding user input
Message-Id: <6q7laq$1ve$1@rand.dimensional.com>
[posted to comp.lang.perl.misc but not mailed to the cited author]
(funny what happens when one is polite and reasonable with their
requests)
In article <m3k94oww1t.fsf@windlord.Stanford.EDU>
Russ Allbery <rra@stanford.edu> wrote:
>Daniel Grisinger <dgris@rand.dimensional.com> writes:
>> By refusing to allow his posts to be archived he is violating the
>> historical record of the group and trying to set things such that he is
>> not accountable for his actions or his words.
>
>Er.
>
>This is Usenet. Usenet has a lot of things, but historical record ain't
>one of them.
Perhaps that was true before a DejaNews url was an acceptable citation
in papers and reports.
Perhaps that was true before business and personal relationships
conducted entirely electronically were a normal thing for a large
number of people.
Perhaps that was true before the volume of Usenet was so great
that one couldn't keep up.
But that isn't the case anymore, nor should it be.
> The medium expires by its very nature. Gary is rather far
>from the only person who's been on Usenet from before the days of DejaNews
>and considers making money off other people's writings without their
>explicit permission to be in very poor taste.
This argument is completely invalid. As long as the backbone providers
are for-profit organizations, as long as ISPs are selling service
to people whose sole reason for Internet access is Usenet, as long
as their are people writing books and for-pay articles based on
research conducted in Usenet _somebody_ is making money off of your
writings without your explicit permission. DejaNews is just easier
to spot at it than the others are.
> I personally consider this
>concept of determining who someone is from their posting profile to be a
>Very Bad Thing.
Pardon me?
I personally consider determining who someone is from their words and
actions to be a Very Bad Thing. How's that again?
>> Even knowing that some people have valid reasons to not want their posts
>> archived, I still wish that DejaNews wouldn't honor that particular
>> header. Dammit, if you are going to say something you should be
>> prepared to have a record of that kept. You shouldn't try to hide or
>> attempt to avoid responsibility for your own actions.
>
>Maybe it's a Usenet generation thing, but I'm of the opinion that the fact
>that the net has a collective memory of about two weeks is a *good* thing.
Perhaps it is a generational thing, I don't know. But I consider the
fact that DejaNews provides an accurate historical record that will
be usable indefinitely to be a much better thing than the previous
transitory nature of the medium. I just can't stand to see information
thrown away when we don't know yet if that information will be
useful later.
>I can't count the number of people I've seen grow up on Usenet, some
>taking longer than others, gradually becoming valuable posters after
>really drastically bad starts. What does it really matter if someone was
>a flaming jerk two years ago if they aren't any more?
It doesn't matter if they were a jerk for a while and now aren't. I
expect this to be the case for most people (especially considering that
most of the jerkness seems to stem from ignorance rather than
malice).
It does matter if a person has been a jerk continuously for ten
years, in multiple forums, with no provocation. But by not
maintaining a record we can't track that.
>> I wrote a little bot named Mortimer last night that will monitor clpm
>> and automatically repost any X-No-Archive messages without that header.
>> Unless someone can provide a compelling reason not to, I am going to
>> start Mortimer monitoring this group later today, and this will
>> hopefully no longer be an issue.
>
>Um.
>
>Don't.
>
>If you do, I'll have to contact your ISP and try to convince them to shut
>it down. That's spamming as far as I'm concerned; it's network abuse,
>clear and simple, and is absolutely not acceptable.
That's why I asked before I started up the bot, and why I didn't
post the source (I certainly don't want to be handing out code
that automates posting to Usenet :-).
But I don't think that it is network abuse. I personally feel,
very strongly, that the no archive header _is_ abuse. I think
that it is a disgusting, spineless, cowardly attempt to avoid
responsibility for one's own actions. I have to admit that the
presence of that header is enough to make me leery of trusting
even someone who has proven that they are serious. I just can't
help but wonder what it is that they are trying to hide that
they won't allow their words to stand.
>People have the right to say that DejaNews is not allowed to make money
>off of their posts.
I don't see why people have a right to complain about DejaNews making
money off of their posts if they don't have a right to complain
about Worldcom making money off of it or if they don't have a right
to complain about all the ISPs that make money off of it.
dgris
- This is very much off topic for clpm, but I'm not sure what
forum would be more appropriate. It would be appreciated if
someone could set followups appropriately.
--
Daniel Grisinger dgris@perrin.dimensional.com
"No kings, no presidents, just a rough consensus and
running code."
Dave Clark
------------------------------
Date: 4 Aug 1998 19:26:22 GMT
From: abigail@fnx.com (Abigail)
Subject: Re: hiding user input
Message-Id: <6q7n8u$2rf$19@client3.news.psi.net>
Scratchie (upsetter@ziplink.net) wrote on MDCCXCIX September MCMXCIII in
<URL: news:6q7k3j$l1r@fridge.shore.net>:
++ Greg Bacon <gbacon@cs.uah.edu> wrote:
++ : Over and over? Perhaps you should check your memory and DejaNews.
++ : Perhaps your threshold for over and over is extremely low. When I
++ : searched DejaNews for articles in news.groups from gbacon@cs.uah.edu
++ : that contain the words beating and wife, I found one single article,
++ : <6lon2q$ajj$2@info.uah.edu>. I don't use X-No-Archive, either.
++
++ You definitely used it more than once... I recall seeing it two or three
++ times in a single thread.
++
Supply some message IDs, and maybe people will believe you.
Abigail
--
perl -we 'print split /(?=(.*))/s => "Just another Perl Hacker\n";'
------------------------------
Date: 12 Jul 98 21:33:47 GMT (Last modified)
From: Perl-Request@ruby.oce.orst.edu (Perl-Users-Digest Admin)
Subject: Special: Digest Administrivia (Last modified: 12 Mar 98)
Message-Id: <null>
Administrivia:
Special notice: in a few days, the new group comp.lang.perl.moderated
should be formed. I would rather not support two different groups, and I
know of no other plans to create a digested moderated group. This leaves
me with two options: 1) keep on with this group 2) change to the
moderated one.
If you have opinions on this, send them to
perl-users-request@ruby.oce.orst.edu.
The Perl-Users Digest is a retransmission of the USENET newsgroup
comp.lang.perl.misc. For subscription or unsubscription requests, send
the single line:
subscribe perl-users
or:
unsubscribe perl-users
to almanac@ruby.oce.orst.edu.
To submit articles to comp.lang.perl.misc (and this Digest), send your
article to perl-users@ruby.oce.orst.edu.
To submit articles to comp.lang.perl.announce, send your article to
clpa@perl.com.
To request back copies (available for a week or so), send your request
to almanac@ruby.oce.orst.edu with the command "send perl-users x.y",
where x is the volume number and y is the issue number.
The Meta-FAQ, an article containing information about the FAQ, is
available by requesting "send perl-users meta-faq". The real FAQ, as it
appeared last in the newsgroup, can be retrieved with the request "send
perl-users FAQ". Due to their sizes, neither the Meta-FAQ nor the FAQ
are included in the digest.
The "mini-FAQ", which is an updated version of the Meta-FAQ, is
available by requesting "send perl-users mini-faq". It appears twice
weekly in the group, but is not distributed in the digest.
For other requests pertaining to the digest, send mail to
perl-users-request@ruby.oce.orst.edu. Do not waste your time or mine
sending perl questions to the -request address, I don't have time to
answer them even if I did know the answer.
------------------------------
End of Perl-Users Digest V8 Issue 3343
**************************************
