[9737] in Perl-Users-Digest
Perl-Users Digest, Issue: 3331 Volume: 8
daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (Perl-Users Digest)
Mon Aug 3 17:05:33 1998
Date: Mon, 3 Aug 98 14:01:33 -0700
From: Perl-Users Digest <Perl-Users-Request@ruby.OCE.ORST.EDU>
To: Perl-Users@ruby.OCE.ORST.EDU (Perl-Users Digest)
Perl-Users Digest Mon, 3 Aug 1998 Volume: 8 Number: 3331
Today's topics:
Re: hiding user input <johnc@interactive.ibm.com>
Re: hiding user input <dgris@rand.dimensional.com>
Re: hiding user input (Steve Linberg)
Re: hiding user input <mike@newfangled.com>
Re: hiding user input (Kurtis D. Rader)
Re: hiding user input (Gary L. Burnore)
Re: hiding user input <jdporter@min.net>
Re: hiding user input <jdporter@min.net>
Re: hiding user input <johnc@interactive.ibm.com>
Re: hiding user input (Greg Bacon)
Re: hiding user input (Gary L. Burnore)
Re: hiding user input (Greg Bacon)
Re: hiding user input (Gary L. Burnore)
Re: hiding user input (Chris Nandor)
Re: hiding user input (Chris Nandor)
Re: Installing ActivePerl on Win95 system eristic@lodz.pdi.net
Re: Problem with variables in simple script... sleeestack@lol.com
Re: sockets (Matt Knecht)
Re: Sort (Nem W Schlecht)
Re: Using PERL with DB ? sleeestack@lol.com
Re: Using pointers (Craig Berry)
Re: viterbi <jdporter@min.net>
Special: Digest Administrivia (Last modified: 12 Mar 98 (Perl-Users-Digest Admin)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Mon, 03 Aug 1998 14:56:17 +0000
From: John Call <johnc@interactive.ibm.com>
Subject: Re: hiding user input
Message-Id: <35C5CF83.63FFD5@interactive.ibm.com>
I'm suprised that my original three (and identical posts) have caused
such an uproar. I intended them to cause us to think and to face some of
the ugliness that this group seems to have that others I seem to visit
don't have (....linux.misc).
You may ask, why three, identical messages? I wanted to show how useless
it is to constantly post the same thing over and over again. How many
times have you seen:
"Hey moron, read the faq. Don't you know everything I know about
finding answers?"
I've finally seen it one too many times. There was a time when I thought
that the approach would work but it doesn't. I started this little foray
to see if maybe we could find a way that will work.
Abagail (I am not writing this directly to you but to all who agree with
you, also), I hope you read this and take it in the spirit it is meant.
You know Perl better than I. I don't want you to leave. All I'm asking
is if we can come to an agreement about the best way to stop FAQ
questions here. I don't think being rude is the right way. I can see why
you would be frustrated and believe me, I am frustrated, also. We do,
however, need a community-wide solution that we can all apply.
I assumed (incorrectly) that when the .moderated group came along that
all of the the "insults" would stop. I don't think it is a good method
for teaching people a better way. Sadly, some people will never learn a
better way.
I don't sit myself up as having the answer. I just see a problem and am
trying my best to help a community that I want to enjoy. Most of the
time I sit on the outside looking in. That doesn't mean I don't want to
become a more active participant but there is little community here
anymore and that is sad.
We need a solution that we can all live with. When we go back and read
our past posts they all seem silly. Both sides of this reads like little
kids arguing instead of trying to find a good solution. That is what we
need, though. A good solution. One we all agree on. How do we solve the
problem? Let's put away the oral-sludge (coming from both sides) and
find the Right Thing.
Thank you all for your time,
John Call
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 03 Aug 1998 19:07:04 GMT
From: Daniel Grisinger <dgris@rand.dimensional.com>
Subject: Re: hiding user input
Message-Id: <6q510k$ddj$1@rand.dimensional.com>
In article <35c5eaad.86989000@nntpd.databasix.com>
Gary L. Burnore wrote:
>Your opinion is that it's a troll. Your opinion means jack shit.
I want to give you the benefit of the doubt and believe that you
aren't a 14 year old troll, let's go look.
I'll start with a search of the comp.lang.perl.misc archive
at dejanews.
Hmmm... not a single technical post from you, ever.
This doesn't look good.
Well, that's okay, lots of people who don't post to clpm have
done things for perl. Let's take a look at CPAN
cpan> a /(?i:burnore)/
No objects of type Author found for argument /(?i:burnore)/
Oh, but there are people without CPAN id's that have contributed
to perl. Let's take a look at all your great work on p5p.
Never mind, the p5p archives have never heard of you. Guess you
haven't contributed anything there.
But maybe you're in the habit of mailing patches directly to
the pumpking rather than dealing with p5p. Let's see.
$ cd /usr/src/perl
$ grep -i burnore Changes*
$
Hmmmm... apparently you've never contributed anything to
perl other than bullshit, flames, and hard feelings. I'd
say that you are undoubtedly a troll.
dgris
--
Daniel Grisinger dgris@perrin.dimensional.com
"No kings, no presidents, just a rough consensus and
running code."
Dave Clark
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 03 Aug 1998 15:30:00 -0400
From: linberg@literacy.upenn.edu (Steve Linberg)
Subject: Re: hiding user input
Message-Id: <linberg-0308981530000001@projdirc.literacy.upenn.edu>
In article <35C5CF83.63FFD5@interactive.ibm.com>,
johnc@interactive.ibm.com wrote:
> Abagail (I am not writing this directly to you but to all who agree with
> you, also), I hope you read this and take it in the spirit it is meant.
> You know Perl better than I. I don't want you to leave. All I'm asking
> is if we can come to an agreement about the best way to stop FAQ
> questions here. I don't think being rude is the right way. I can see why
> you would be frustrated and believe me, I am frustrated, also. We do,
> however, need a community-wide solution that we can all apply.
It has always been my understanding that every first-time poster to this
groups gets an automatic email response saying "welcome and so forth...
and before you post this message, have you read the FAQ's, use strict and
perl -w," and so on, and the user has to resubmit the question in order
for it to be posted. Is this no longer the case?
If it is still the case, then I think the fault is clearly with the
posters. if not, maybe we need to make it the case again.
I myself have been frustrated and snapped at newbies a couple of times for
asking absurdly obvious, misplaced, or downright presumptuous questions
(although I am far from a perl guru myself, I try to be helpful). I
usually feel badly about it afterwards, too. I also think I have been
snapped at a little myself in my early newbie days for asking a dumb
question or two... however, my real motivation in coming here has always
been to learn and help out where and as I could. I shook off the
occasional "snip" and have learned a whole lot. We're all a lot tougher
than we sound here, I think. It's a shame if anybody gives up Perl
because they get snapped at, but has this actually happened?
> We need a solution that we can all live with. When we go back and read
> our past posts they all seem silly. Both sides of this reads like little
> kids arguing instead of trying to find a good solution. That is what we
> need, though. A good solution. One we all agree on. How do we solve the
> problem? Let's put away the oral-sludge (coming from both sides) and
> find the Right Thing.
This is hard because we can't control the gates anymore. Back in the
Golden Age when you couldn't buy your way onto the internet, you had to be
pretty technically savvy to get here in the first place. When the users
were technically oriented, most of them knew how to find a FAQ and heeded
things like protocol and netiquette (sp?). Nowadays people want free
fixes for brain-dead, broken code, ask Perl questions that show they know
*nothing* about programming at all, let alone Perl, and cop attitudes when
people (occasionally rudely) direct them to the resources they should have
read in the first place and where their answers lie.
I agree that the problem is many people don't know there *are* resources
they should be checking, and they don't understand the nature of usenet.
This is a huge problem, and unfortunately, it seems it will only get
worse. c.l.p.moderated might be a refuge for some time, but not
necessarily for long.
It's hard not to be pessimistic about the whole thing. What I often fear
is that the experts will eventually get fed up and disappear altogether.
(this is already happening - when was Larry last sighted on usenet?).
_____________________________________________________________________
Steve Linberg National Center on Adult Literacy
Systems Programmer &c. University of Pennsylvania
linberg@literacy.upenn.edu http://www.literacyonline.org
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 03 Aug 1998 15:32:36 -0400
From: "Michael S. Brito, Jr." <mike@newfangled.com>
Subject: Re: hiding user input
Message-Id: <35C6104F.2F162B7C@newfangled.com>
Man, if everyone put this much effort into replying to postings with an
actual purpose, there would be a few more educated programmers and alot more
working scripts out there!!!!!!!
Steve Linberg wrote:
> In article <35c20fb6.57357791@nntpd.databasix.com>, gburnore@databasix.com
> wrote:
>
> > And a quick check to this
> > one group will show everyone that you're a bitch.
>
> ("you" being Abigail)
>
> A quick check to this group will show everyone that Abigail's knowledge of
> programming and Perl exceeds that of 99% of the other posters here
> COMBINED. That's all I'm interested in.
>
> Meanwhile, if people would just read the @#&^!@ FAQ's - not just once, but
> regularly - we would all live longer.
>
> See you (maybe) in clp.moderated.
> _____________________________________________________________________
> Steve Linberg National Center on Adult Literacy
> Systems Programmer &c. University of Pennsylvania
> linberg@literacy.upenn.edu http://www.literacyonline.org
--
-----------------------------------------------------------
Michael S. Brito, Jr., Web Developer
Newfangled Graphics Co. Inc.
mike@newfangled.com
-----------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: 3 Aug 1998 19:59:49 GMT
From: krader@sequent.com (Kurtis D. Rader)
Subject: Re: hiding user input
Message-Id: <6q54rl$f1o@scel.sequent.com>
In article <35C5C1D0.36D6@min.net>, John Porter <jdporter@min.net> wrote:
>Gary L. Burnore wrote:
>>
>> I'll be sure to Call both Stanford and Dartmouth on Monday and let the admins
>> there know exactly what I think of your actions.
>
>If any of those admins have half a clue, they'll check the clpm
>archives, and will become quite clear to them that you are the one
>with the problem. And there are plenty of us who will be glad to
>field emails or phone calls to affirm the same.
>
>--
>John Porter
I am one of those individuals that Mr. Burnore feels is harrassing him
by sending a single, very polite, email to him. He did indeed make good
on his threat to contact my company's postmaster. Fortunately for me,
my postmaster does have a clue :-) I second Mr. Porter's offer. Anyone who
is being threatened or harassed by Mr. Burnore should feel free to contact me
privately if Mr. Burnore contacts their company or business associates.
As an experiment I also forwarded one of his abusive replies to
"postmaster@databasix.com". The following statement was made by Mr. Burnore
in the message which I fowarded to his postmaster:
"You really should think about killing yourself"
As expected he replied with indignation, included below for your amusement.
This person's double-standard mentality is truly amazing.
>To: postmaster@sequent.com, root@sequent.com
>Subject: (Fwd) Fwd: Re: Gary L. Burnore (was Re: hiding user input)
>CC: krader@sequent.com
>
>You just don't get it do you? I OWN THE COMPANY. YOUR
>HARASSMENT IS UNACCEPTABLE. STOP NOW.
Mr. Burnore, after reviewing your behavior on Usenet as a whole I'm positive
that everyone would be happier if you slithered back under the rock from
which you came. And that includes those you believe you are coming to the
defense of. You strike me as little more than a mentally unbalanced bully.
I sincerely hope you do not own any firearms.
--
Kurtis D. Rader, Staff Engineer email: krader@sequent.com
Sequent Computer Systems voice: +1 503/578-3714
15450 SW Koll Pkwy, MS RHE2-501 http://www.sequent.com
Beaverton, OR 97006-6063
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 03 Aug 1998 20:14:52 GMT
From: gburnore@databasix.com (Gary L. Burnore)
Subject: Re: hiding user input
Message-Id: <35c61990.98993251@nntpd.databasix.com>
On 3 Aug 1998 19:59:49 GMT, in article <6q54rl$f1o@scel.sequent.com>,
krader@sequent.com (Kurtis D. Rader) wrote:
>In article <35C5C1D0.36D6@min.net>, John Porter <jdporter@min.net> wrote:
>>Gary L. Burnore wrote:
>>>
>>> I'll be sure to Call both Stanford and Dartmouth on Monday and let the admins
>>> there know exactly what I think of your actions.
>>
>>If any of those admins have half a clue, they'll check the clpm
>>archives, and will become quite clear to them that you are the one
>>with the problem. And there are plenty of us who will be glad to
>>field emails or phone calls to affirm the same.
>>
>>--
>>John Porter
>
>I am one of those individuals that Mr. Burnore feels is harrassing him
>by sending a single, very polite, email to him. He did indeed make good
>on his threat to contact my company's postmaster. Fortunately for me,
>my postmaster does have a clue :-)
Yes, but other folks at your company have and they apparently are interested
in this now.
> I second Mr. Porter's offer. Anyone who
>is being threatened or harassed by Mr. Burnore should feel free to contact me
>privately if Mr. Burnore contacts their company or business associates.
>
Yup. ANd they'll say USENet is USENet and email is not USENet.
>As an experiment I also forwarded one of his abusive replies to
>"postmaster@databasix.com". The following statement was made by Mr. Burnore
>in the message which I fowarded to his postmaster:
>
> "You really should think about killing yourself"
>
>As expected he replied with indignation, included below for your amusement.
>This person's double-standard mentality is truly amazing.
You seem to mis-understand a lot. YOU emailed me. I ask/told you to stop. YOU
continued. YOU threw ad-hominim attacks in email, I responded. Note you
didn't quote what you wrote in private email, just my response to it.
Typical. Very typical.
>
>>To: postmaster@sequent.com, root@sequent.com
>>Subject: (Fwd) Fwd: Re: Gary L. Burnore (was Re: hiding user input)
>>CC: krader@sequent.com
>>
>>You just don't get it do you? I OWN THE COMPANY. YOUR
>>HARASSMENT IS UNACCEPTABLE. STOP NOW.
>
>Mr. Burnore, after reviewing your behavior on Usenet as a whole I'm positive
>that everyone would be happier if you slithered back under the rock from
>which you came. And that includes those you believe you are coming to the
>defense of. You strike me as little more than a mentally unbalanced bully.
>I sincerely hope you do not own any firearms.
I'll loan you one if you want to use it.
--
I DO NOT WISH TO RECEIVE EMAIL IN REGARD TO USENET POSTS
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
How you look depends on where you go.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Gary L. Burnore | ][3:]3^3:]33][:]3^3:]3]3^3:]3]][3
| ][3:]3^3:]33][:]3^3:]3]3^3:]3]][3
DOH! | ][3:]3^3:]33][:]3^3:]3]3^3:]3]][3
| ][3 3 4 1 4 2 ]3^3 6 9 0 6 9 ][3
Special Sig for perl groups. | Official Proof of Purchase
===========================================================================
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 03 Aug 1998 20:25:21 GMT
From: John Porter <jdporter@min.net>
Subject: Re: hiding user input
Message-Id: <35C61D37.52BF@min.net>
Gary L. Burnore wrote:
>
> I am going to set up a nice little procmail filter
> that works specifically for this group
You mean like a spam filter?
--
John Porter
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 03 Aug 1998 20:31:13 GMT
From: John Porter <jdporter@min.net>
Subject: Re: hiding user input
Message-Id: <35C61E96.7653@min.net>
Steve Linberg wrote:
>
> I shook off the occasional "snip" and have learned a whole lot.
> We're all a lot tougher than we sound here, I think.
Well that's exactly right: one must be thick-skinned to dwell on usenet.
And if you aren't when you start, the calluses do build up pretty quick.
--
John Porter
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 03 Aug 1998 16:34:30 +0000
From: John Call <johnc@interactive.ibm.com>
To: Steve Linberg <linberg@literacy.upenn.edu>
Subject: Re: hiding user input
Message-Id: <35C5E683.6C7CCB75@interactive.ibm.com>
Steve Linberg wrote:
> Nowadays people want free fixes for brain-dead, broken code, ask Perl
> questions that show they know *nothing* about programming at all, let alone
> Perl, and cop attitudes when people (occasionally rudely) direct them to
> the resources they should have read in the first place and where their
> answers lie.
Your points are well taken. It does seem to be an almost unsolvable problem.
There are a lot of people out there who don't want to learn for themselves
but just want somebody to make it better.
I like the idea of directing people to the faq in a standard manner, ie:
Your answer is at www.perl.com/blah/blah
or whatever we want to tell them. Then we just don't answer their question
until they prove that they have read the appropriate faq, don't understand a
certain part, and then present to us what they don't understand. Then we can
help them.
Who knows? I just know we could have a happier community if we can get past
some of the pettiness. Maybe I'm more of a social engineer.
Thanks,
John Call
------------------------------
Date: 3 Aug 1998 20:32:44 GMT
From: gbacon@cs.uah.edu (Greg Bacon)
Subject: Re: hiding user input
Message-Id: <6q56pc$jki$3@info.uah.edu>
In article <35caf7f7.90390710@nntpd.databasix.com>,
gburnore@databasix.com (Gary L. Burnore) writes:
: Uh, I did: Reply-To: whatpartofdontemailme@dontyouunderstand
: so they just use the From: line. I won't forge that for them. But I am going
: t set up a nice little procmail filter that works specifically for this group
: since it's in this group that the "experts" seem to think it's ok to post and
: followup and those same said experts can't take leave my email alone for an
: answer.
Why do you maintain this position in the face of documents that claim
otherwise?
Greg
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 03 Aug 1998 20:39:23 GMT
From: gburnore@databasix.com (Gary L. Burnore)
Subject: Re: hiding user input
Message-Id: <35c71d9c.100029363@nntpd.databasix.com>
On Mon, 03 Aug 1998 14:56:17 +0000, in article
<35C5CF83.63FFD5@interactive.ibm.com>, John Call <johnc@interactive.ibm.com>
wrote:
>I'm suprised that my original three (and identical posts) have caused
>such an uproar. I intended them to cause us to think and to face some of
>the ugliness that this group seems to have that others I seem to visit
>don't have (....linux.misc).
I'm not at all surprised NOW. Like you said, other groups I frequently
read/post to aren't like this. Other groups under comp don't feel the need to
email on things they post to the group. (Why is still not clear. Like is the
poster not posting anymore?>
>You may ask, why three, identical messages? I wanted to show how useless
>it is to constantly post the same thing over and over again. How many
>times have you seen:
>
> "Hey moron, read the faq. Don't you know everything I know about
>finding answers?"
>
>I've finally seen it one too many times. There was a time when I thought
>that the approach would work but it doesn't. I started this little foray
>to see if maybe we could find a way that will work.
As is why I started in with the posts I've made. I notoce that a few have
said after and before that treating newbies rudely is wrong. The rest are
either commenting about my posts in a positive or negative way. That's fine
with me, I'd MUCH rather they flame me than new posters with questions. At
least _SOME_ people will think next time before flaming someone for asking a
question.
>
>Abagail (I am not writing this directly to you but to all who agree with
>you, also), I hope you read this and take it in the spirit it is meant.
>You know Perl better than I. I don't want you to leave. All I'm asking
>is if we can come to an agreement about the best way to stop FAQ
>questions here. I don't think being rude is the right way. I can see why
>you would be frustrated and believe me, I am frustrated, also. We do,
>however, need a community-wide solution that we can all apply.
>
>I assumed (incorrectly) that when the .moderated group came along that
>all of the the "insults" would stop. I don't think it is a good method
>for teaching people a better way. Sadly, some people will never learn a
>better way.
I believe many people assumed the same thing. I've read clpm for quite
awhile. I've not had much REASON to post here since I'm no expert at perl and
lately either haven't had questions, had questions that were answered in the
faq or answers that were posted here.
>
>I don't sit myself up as having the answer. I just see a problem and am
>trying my best to help a community that I want to enjoy. Most of the
>time I sit on the outside looking in. That doesn't mean I don't want to
>become a more active participant but there is little community here
>anymore and that is sad.
>
>We need a solution that we can all live with. When we go back and read
>our past posts they all seem silly. Both sides of this reads like little
>kids arguing instead of trying to find a good solution. That is what we
>need, though. A good solution. One we all agree on. How do we solve the
>problem? Let's put away the oral-sludge (coming from both sides) and
>find the Right Thing.
The RIGHT thing would be to stop abusing those who post questions that have
already been answered. As I mentioned before, this is not an alt group. This
is a comp group.
As for you-know-who's comments that dejanews doesn't show any posts for me
from comp, I've corrected that by removing X-No-Archive yes from all comp
groups except this one. If someone were to really WANT to know what I post,
I'm sure they could figure it out on their own, but you can feel free to check
comp.unix.sco* comp.security.* comp.*.sendmail etc.
In THOSE groups people have not abused like they do here. In THOSE groups
people don't feel the need to email people privately for every damn post they
follow up to. In THOSE groups people POLITELY point to the faqs instead of
rudely.
I find it fasinating that there are people here that look the other way when
Abigail or those like her post rude and abusive replys to people and comment
when I say something about her. My posts were rude and obnoxious for a
reason. Not as a troll. But as an EXAMPLE of what this group looks like and
has looked like for nearly a year. As was said earlier, I was expecting the
moderated group to take some of the heat out of here. It didn't. Not in the
least.
--
I DO NOT WISH TO RECEIVE EMAIL IN REGARD TO USENET POSTS
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
How you look depends on where you go.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Gary L. Burnore | ][3:]3^3:]33][:]3^3:]3]3^3:]3]][3
| ][3:]3^3:]33][:]3^3:]3]3^3:]3]][3
DOH! | ][3:]3^3:]33][:]3^3:]3]3^3:]3]][3
| ][3 3 4 1 4 2 ]3^3 6 9 0 6 9 ][3
Special Sig for perl groups. | Official Proof of Purchase
===========================================================================
------------------------------
Date: 3 Aug 1998 20:21:25 GMT
From: gbacon@cs.uah.edu (Greg Bacon)
Subject: Re: hiding user input
Message-Id: <6q5645$jki$2@info.uah.edu>
In article <6q4spn$3te@mozo.cc.purdue.edu>,
gebis@fee.ecn.purdue.edu (Michael J Gebis) writes:
: Greg wanted to make a point which would be something like, "Your
: question makes an assumption which is incorrect, and therefore cannot
: be answered properly."
False. My point was whether or not anyone beats his wife is irrelevant
to the discussion.
: However, he used the "classic" wife-beating question which not only turns
: his point into a personal attack, but also contains a reference to domestic
: violence, both of which virtually guarantee angry responses on USENET.
Bullshit. It is not an attack, but a demonstration. Do not blame me
for the fact that 95% of people don't know anything about arguing.
: Worst of all, we keep seeing this question on this group, in spite of
: the fact that it always fails to make its point, in spite of the fact
: that it causes much more off-topic traffic than it averts, and in
: spite of the fact that it stopped being even moderately clever the
: first dozen times we saw it.
I'm not trying to be clever. Whose fault is it if the point zips
right by someone's head? It's not as though I'm being obscure in
pointing out Gary's propensity toward the ad hominem.
: Then, when I call him on this, he follows it up with an attack
: questioning my buddha-nature.
Why don't you call Gary on his abuse of ad hominem?
Greg
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 03 Aug 1998 20:40:06 GMT
From: gburnore@databasix.com (Gary L. Burnore)
Subject: Re: hiding user input
Message-Id: <35c82008.100649223@nntpd.databasix.com>
On Mon, 03 Aug 1998 19:07:04 GMT, in article
<6q510k$ddj$1@rand.dimensional.com>, Daniel Grisinger
<dgris@rand.dimensional.com> wrote:
>In article <35c5eaad.86989000@nntpd.databasix.com>
>Gary L. Burnore wrote:
>
>>Your opinion is that it's a troll. Your opinion means jack shit.
>
>I want to give you the benefit of the doubt and believe that you
>aren't a 14 year old troll, let's go look.
>
>I'll start with a search of the comp.lang.perl.misc archive
>at dejanews.
>Hmmm... not a single technical post from you, ever.
>This doesn't look good.
What it DOES look like is X-No-Archive: yes
>
--
I DO NOT WISH TO RECEIVE EMAIL IN REGARD TO USENET POSTS
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
How you look depends on where you go.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Gary L. Burnore | ][3:]3^3:]33][:]3^3:]3]3^3:]3]][3
| ][3:]3^3:]33][:]3^3:]3]3^3:]3]][3
DOH! | ][3:]3^3:]33][:]3^3:]3]3^3:]3]][3
| ][3 3 4 1 4 2 ]3^3 6 9 0 6 9 ][3
Special Sig for perl groups. | Official Proof of Purchase
===========================================================================
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 03 Aug 1998 16:48:53 -0400
From: pudge@pobox.com (Chris Nandor)
Subject: Re: hiding user input
Message-Id: <pudge-0308981648530001@192.168.0.3>
In article <6q5078$g37@fridge.shore.net>, Scratchie <upsetter@ziplink.net>
wrote:
# Gary L. Burnore <gburnore@databasix.com> wrote:
# : On 3 Aug 1998 15:00:45 GMT, in article <6q4jat$auq@fridge.shore.net>,
# : Scratchie <upsetter@ziplink.net> wrote:
#
# :>
# :>That is a threat. Buy a dictionary.
# :>
#
# : You have yours handy? Look up promise.
#
# My mistake. I didn't realize you were a tough guy.
ROTFL ...
--
Chris Nandor mailto:pudge@pobox.com http://pudge.net/
%PGPKey = ('B76E72AD', [1024, '0824090B CE73CA10 1FF77F13 8180B6B6'])
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 03 Aug 1998 16:51:05 -0400
From: pudge@pobox.com (Chris Nandor)
Subject: Re: hiding user input
Message-Id: <pudge-0308981651050001@192.168.0.3>
In article <6q5645$jki$2@info.uah.edu>, Greg Bacon <gbacon@cs.uah.edu> wrote:
# I'm not trying to be clever. Whose fault is it if the point zips
# right by someone's head?
To some degree, it could be yours. Communication is a two-way street. It
is as incumbent on you to communicate clearly as it is on them to
understand it.
Although, in this case, I though your meaning was pretty clear.
--
Chris Nandor mailto:pudge@pobox.com http://pudge.net/
%PGPKey = ('B76E72AD', [1024, '0824090B CE73CA10 1FF77F13 8180B6B6'])
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 03 Aug 1998 20:37:48 GMT
From: eristic@lodz.pdi.net
Subject: Re: Installing ActivePerl on Win95 system
Message-Id: <35c5edd0.3866220@news.nask.org.pl>
Keywords: If you're happy and you know it, clunk your chains.
[posted and emailed]
"Jeremy Deats" <jeremy@pdq.net> wrote:
>I've been trying to install Perl and get it working with Personal Web
>Server for a few days now
>I downloaded Perl5 and installed it, set up my path and extenshion
>association) and I could
>execute scripts from the command line fine. But it still wouldn't work in
>the browser.
You'll probably need to do some basic configuration within the server
itself - tell it where perl lives, create (or designate) a directory where
scripts may be executed (can't put them Just Anywhere for security reasons)
etc.
<snip>
>Does anyone have advise as to what I should do?
This is probably not the answer you're expecting, but since I don't know
the two servers you've been using, I can only recommend the Xitami web
server from
http://www.imatix.com/html/xitami/index.htm
It's free, it's nicely configurable, it runs on multiple platforms (unix,
win95, win NT and, IIRC, others). For windows, it comes in two flavors, GUI
and console. Good docs, too, and it's being actively maintained with new
releases appearing frequently. I've used it with both the ActiveState and
the "native" ports of perl, had _zero_ problems in either case.
Note: I have not used the server to let the outside world access my
machine, so I don't know how it behaves then. I have used it to test some
CGI apps and run html-based utils on my local machine and encountered no
server-related problems.
There's also a win95 port of Apache, the best http server of all, but it
runs as a console app, which I don't particularly enjoy from the
'interface' point of view, but YMMV.
.marek
--
General Frenetics, Discorporated: http://www.lodz.pdi.net/~eristic/
"The war isn't the war between the blacks and the whites, the liberals
and the conservatives, or the Federation and the Romulans. It's between
the clueful and the clueless." (an anonymous poster on Cypherpunks list)
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 03 Aug 1998 20:47:55 GMT
From: sleeestack@lol.com
Subject: Re: Problem with variables in simple script...
Message-Id: <35c621e6.4102148@news.newscorp.com>
It could be your form page isn't using comments as the name '<textarea
name="comments" ...'
if that does't work, try changing
>open(MAIL,"|$MAILER -f$sender $recipient");
to
open(MAIL,"|$MAILER -f$sender $recipient") || die "Couldn't open
sendmail: $!\n";
if you are not running this from the command line to debug it instead
change it to:
open(MAIL,"|$MAILER -f$sender $recipient") || print "Content-type:
text/plain\n\nCouldn't open sendmail: $!\n";
What might be happening is your webserver groupid doesn't allow for
executing sendmail.
Also, I always put a space between the end of my opening here doc id
and the semicolon
print <<"EndOfMessage" ;
On 2 Aug 1998 03:23:53 GMT, loans2001@aol.com (Loans2001) wrote:
>I don't what the problem is, I typed in a script straight out of a book. The
>60 minute guide to CGI programming. It is a simple program permitting comments
>on a website. You enter your email address, and your comments in a TEXTAREA,
...
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 03 Aug 1998 19:00:04 GMT
From: hex@voicenet.com (Matt Knecht)
Subject: Re: sockets
Message-Id: <UMnx1.633$NJ5.4449524@news2.voicenet.com>
brejen@intercall.com <brejen@intercall.com> wrote:
>1) when I use an address "www.(whatever)" I can connect the socket but when I
>use "http://(whatever)" it NEVER works. Why is this?
Because "www.whatever.com" is a valid machine name (Supposedly).
"http://" is the way in which your browser determines how to handle
traffic from a valid machine name. It is not part of the name.
--
Matt Knecht - <hex@voicenet.com>
------------------------------
Date: 3 Aug 1998 14:30:52 -0500
From: nem@abattoir.cc.ndsu.nodak.edu (Nem W Schlecht)
Subject: Re: Sort
Message-Id: <6q535c$q1s@abattoir.cc.ndsu.nodak.edu>
[courtesy copy e-mailed to author(s)]
In comp.lang.perl.misc, Jennifer Philips <cobalt@dircon.co.uk> wrote:
>
>When using sort to sort a hash, is there a way of passing the hash I want
>to sort into the
>sort subroutine rather than declaring a global hash?
I'm thinking yes, but your question is a bit obscure. I'm assuming that
you are sorting the keys of the hash. There should be no need to declare a
hash as global in order to sort it.
** Method 1 (inline sort):
@sorted_hash_keys = sort { $a cmp $b } keys(%my_hash);
** Method 2 (sorting subroutine - pass by ref.):
@sorted_hash_keys = sort_hash(\%my_hash);
sub sort_hash {
my($hash_ref)=shift;
return sort { $a cmp $b } keys(%$hash_ref);
}
--
Nem W Schlecht nem@plains.nodak.edu
NDUS UNIX SysAdmin http://www.nodak.edu/~nem/
"Perl did the magic. I just waved the wand."
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 03 Aug 1998 20:52:29 GMT
From: sleeestack@lol.com
Subject: Re: Using PERL with DB ?
Message-Id: <35c622f8.4376342@news.newscorp.com>
http://www.inlink.com/~perlguy/simple/
from www.perl.com section databases
------------------------------
Date: 3 Aug 1998 18:54:09 GMT
From: cberry@cinenet.net (Craig Berry)
Subject: Re: Using pointers
Message-Id: <6q510h$s3u$1@marina.cinenet.net>
John Moreno (phenix@interpath.com) wrote:
: Craig Berry <cberry@cinenet.net> wrote:
: > Not surprising, as Perl doesn't have 'pointers' per se. References are
: > about the closest thing in the language, but often idioms in other
: > languages that involve pointers don't even involve references when
: > expressed in Perl.
:
: That's kind of what I thought, but still couldn't figure out how to do
: what I want (maybe it's not possible) - print $$pointer; doesn't seem
: to do anything (print $pointer prints out some junk which I assumed is
: the location in memory of the string expresses as a string).
If $pointer were a reference to a scalar, you could do that:
$foo = 'a string';
$bar = \$foo;
print $$bar;
prints out 'a string'. And yes, what you get when you use the 'p' pack
format is a (typically 4-byte) scalar 'string' that is the memory address
of the original string data. Not at all useful, Perl-wise.
: I think pascal's string type is a better match.
Might be; I'm not familiar with it.
: Well, I'm trying to eliminate "bad" items from a string by copying it
: onto itself while it's good and then back tracking when I find out it's
: bad, I want to make sure I don't have any fence post errors and perl
: seems to be the best way of looking at it (very easy to input the
: different test cases and not a lot involved in setting up a test
: program, unlike for C - I'm doing this on a Mac, and setting up small
: programs isn't MW codewarriors strong suite).
:
: So what I wanted to do is use $pointer++ to move around in the C string
: and also do the equivalent of the C *pointer==' '. If I can't do that I
: guess it shouldn't be too hard to do it as a array and then use
: indexing.
There are two ways to attack this in Perl, each has good and bad points:
1. Use substr() and indices to read and write positions in the string. I
$index is your current working index, then
substr($string, $index, 1) = ' ';
accomplishes the same thing as your C code above.
2. Explode the string into an array of characters...
@chars = split //, $string;
...operate on the individual array elements...
$chars[$index] = ' ';
...then put it back together when you're done:
$string = join '', @chars;
Hope this helps!
---------------------------------------------------------------------
| Craig Berry - cberry@cinenet.net
--*-- Home Page: http://www.cinenet.net/users/cberry/home.html
| Member of The HTML Writers Guild: http://www.hwg.org/
"Every man and every woman is a star."
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 03 Aug 1998 20:22:49 GMT
From: John Porter <jdporter@min.net>
Subject: Re: viterbi
Message-Id: <35C61C9F.6825@min.net>
santori wrote:
>
> i need any matlab file of viterbi algorithm and the eqauation for to
> calculate the metrics in the viterbi algorithm with code rate
> 2/3.....help me!!!!
So you can translate it into Perl? Excellent!
--
John Porter
------------------------------
Date: 12 Jul 98 21:33:47 GMT (Last modified)
From: Perl-Request@ruby.oce.orst.edu (Perl-Users-Digest Admin)
Subject: Special: Digest Administrivia (Last modified: 12 Mar 98)
Message-Id: <null>
Administrivia:
Special notice: in a few days, the new group comp.lang.perl.moderated
should be formed. I would rather not support two different groups, and I
know of no other plans to create a digested moderated group. This leaves
me with two options: 1) keep on with this group 2) change to the
moderated one.
If you have opinions on this, send them to
perl-users-request@ruby.oce.orst.edu.
The Perl-Users Digest is a retransmission of the USENET newsgroup
comp.lang.perl.misc. For subscription or unsubscription requests, send
the single line:
subscribe perl-users
or:
unsubscribe perl-users
to almanac@ruby.oce.orst.edu.
To submit articles to comp.lang.perl.misc (and this Digest), send your
article to perl-users@ruby.oce.orst.edu.
To submit articles to comp.lang.perl.announce, send your article to
clpa@perl.com.
To request back copies (available for a week or so), send your request
to almanac@ruby.oce.orst.edu with the command "send perl-users x.y",
where x is the volume number and y is the issue number.
The Meta-FAQ, an article containing information about the FAQ, is
available by requesting "send perl-users meta-faq". The real FAQ, as it
appeared last in the newsgroup, can be retrieved with the request "send
perl-users FAQ". Due to their sizes, neither the Meta-FAQ nor the FAQ
are included in the digest.
The "mini-FAQ", which is an updated version of the Meta-FAQ, is
available by requesting "send perl-users mini-faq". It appears twice
weekly in the group, but is not distributed in the digest.
For other requests pertaining to the digest, send mail to
perl-users-request@ruby.oce.orst.edu. Do not waste your time or mine
sending perl questions to the -request address, I don't have time to
answer them even if I did know the answer.
------------------------------
End of Perl-Users Digest V8 Issue 3331
**************************************
