[9501] in Perl-Users-Digest
Perl-Users Digest, Issue: 3094 Volume: 8
daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (Perl-Users Digest)
Wed Jul 8 12:07:28 1998
Date: Wed, 8 Jul 98 09:00:29 -0700
From: Perl-Users Digest <Perl-Users-Request@ruby.OCE.ORST.EDU>
To: Perl-Users@ruby.OCE.ORST.EDU (Perl-Users Digest)
Perl-Users Digest Wed, 8 Jul 1998 Volume: 8 Number: 3094
Today's topics:
Re: 'NEXT' and 'LAST' in do-until <merlyn@stonehenge.com>
Re: 'NEXT' and 'LAST' in do-until <tchrist@mox.perl.com>
Re: -w on production code (was Re: better way of gettin <tchrist@mox.perl.com>
Re: -w on production code (was Re: better way of gettin <merlyn@stonehenge.com>
Re: -w on production code (was Re: better way of gettin <tchrist@mox.perl.com>
Re: -w on production code (was Re: better way of gettin <rra@stanford.edu>
Re: -w on production code (was Re: better way of gettin (Bart Lateur)
Re: Calling DLLs from within PERL <uwe.honekamp@etas.de>
Re: Checking the existence of a url (Real)
Re: DB_File in the real world. <jdporter@min.net>
Re: diff like module or code in perl? <jdporter@min.net>
Re: hash object - how to get keys <qdtcall@esb.ericsson.se>
How much space left on disk? (Marc Haber)
Re: How to read UDP? <tchrist@mox.perl.com>
Re: Indexing servers <clint@netcomuk.co.ukXX>
Re: Literal string evaluation question <jdf@pobox.com>
Re: NEVER "call warn() and return undef" (Re: question <jdporter@min.net>
Re: NEVER "call warn() and return undef" (Re: question <aas@sn.no>
Re: new charter and moderator for comp.lang.perl.announ <wd@uebemc.siemens.de>
Re: new charter and moderator for comp.lang.perl.announ (Alan Schwartz)
Re: new charter and moderator for comp.lang.perl.announ <dgris@rand.dimensional.com>
Re: new charter and moderator for comp.lang.perl.announ <quednauf@nortel.co.uk>
Re: new charter and moderator for comp.lang.perl.announ <gnat@frii.com>
Re: Oh man, DO I love Perl ! (References to things that <aas@sn.no>
Re: Passing open file descriptor to an unrelated proces <tchrist@mox.perl.com>
perl 5.004.04 on AIX 4.2.1 (Darren Henderson)
Perl and OS/2??? (Dorene Clark)
Perl Doc Notation <sengle1@gl.umbc.edu>
Re: Perl Doc Notation (Richard Bellavance)
Re: Perl Doc Notation <jdf@pobox.com>
Re: Perl Doc Notation (brian d foy)
Digest Administrivia (Last modified: 8 Mar 97) (Perl-Users-Digest Admin)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Wed, 08 Jul 1998 14:05:24 GMT
From: Randal Schwartz <merlyn@stonehenge.com>
Subject: Re: 'NEXT' and 'LAST' in do-until
Message-Id: <8caf6kh20c.fsf@gadget.cscaper.com>
>>>>> "Morten" == Morten Simonsen <mortensi@idt.ntnu.no> writes:
Morten> I am just curious: Why is a do-until loop *that* different from a
Morten> while-loop?
I'm pretty sure this is spelled out in the camel. A do-while or do-until
loop is really just a form of:
EXPR until EXPR;
or
EXPR while EXPR;
where the first EXPR has the form:
do { code }
since that's a legitimate EXPR. That "block" is *NOT* the kind of
block that is respected for the purposes of last/next/redo. Thus,
when you make a do-while "loop", you don't have a real "looping block"
yet. Tom's solution added a naked block in addition to the do-while
"block", while my solution simply used a naked block to build an
arbitrary "loop".
print "Just another Perl hacker," # but not what the media calls "hacker!" :-)
## legal fund: $22,319.19 collected, $186,159.85 spent; just 55 more days
## before I go to *prison* for 90 days; email fund@stonehenge.com for details
--
Name: Randal L. Schwartz / Stonehenge Consulting Services (503)777-0095
Keywords: Perl training, UNIX[tm] consulting, video production, skiing, flying
Email: <merlyn@stonehenge.com> Snail: (Call) PGP-Key: (finger merlyn@teleport.com)
Web: <A HREF="http://www.stonehenge.com/merlyn/">My Home Page!</A>
Quote: "I'm telling you, if I could have five lines in my .sig, I would!" -- me
------------------------------
Date: 8 Jul 1998 13:53:48 GMT
From: Tom Christiansen <tchrist@mox.perl.com>
Subject: Re: 'NEXT' and 'LAST' in do-until
Message-Id: <6nvtlc$n4o$3@csnews.cs.colorado.edu>
[courtesy cc of this posting sent to cited author via email]
In comp.lang.perl.misc,
Morten Simonsen <mortensi@idt.ntnu.no> writes:
:I am just curious: Why is a do-until loop *that* different from a
:while-loop?
Because it is a TERM in the grammar.
$FILE = do {
if ($opt_f) { $opt_f }
elsif (-f STDIN) { "<&STDIN" }
else { $DEF_FILE }
};
or
($FORMAT_NAME, $FORMAT_TOP_NAME) = do {
if ($long_form) { qw( Long Long_Top ) }
elsif ($just_inode) { qw( Inodes Inodes_Top ) }
elsif ($sys5) { qw( SysV SysV_Top ) }
elsif ($bsd) { qw( BSD BSD_Top ) }
else { die " No format?" }
};
--tom
--
------------------------------
Date: 8 Jul 1998 13:49:27 GMT
From: Tom Christiansen <tchrist@mox.perl.com>
Subject: Re: -w on production code (was Re: better way of getting the last modified file?)
Message-Id: <6nvtd7$n4o$2@csnews.cs.colorado.edu>
[courtesy cc of this posting sent to cited author via email]
In comp.lang.perl.misc,
Harald Joerg <Harald.Joerg@mch.sni.de> writes:
:In an error log the errors of *all* actions performed by the server
:are concatenated. It is hard to spot a serious error in program A
:when program B will print some screenfuls of warnings twice per
:minute.
What the heck are you doing writing programs that generate reams
of warnings!?
Consider this program:
for (1 .. 10) {
$b = $a + 1;
}
Now note the difference between this:
% perl -w /tmp/a
Use of uninitialized value at /tmp/a line 2.
Use of uninitialized value at /tmp/a line 2.
Use of uninitialized value at /tmp/a line 2.
Use of uninitialized value at /tmp/a line 2.
Use of uninitialized value at /tmp/a line 2.
Use of uninitialized value at /tmp/a line 2.
Use of uninitialized value at /tmp/a line 2.
Use of uninitialized value at /tmp/a line 2.
Use of uninitialized value at /tmp/a line 2.
Use of uninitialized value at /tmp/a line 2.
and this:
% perl -Mdiagnostics -w /tmp/a
Use of uninitialized value at /tmp/a line 2 (#1)
(W) An undefined value was used as if it were already defined.
It was interpreted as a "" or a 0, but maybe it was a mistake.
To suppress this warning assign an initial value to your
variables.
Just one warning. I didn't write the diagnostics pragma for
nothing, you know. :-)
--tom
--
X-Windows: A mistake carried out to perfection.
--Jamie Zawinski
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 08 Jul 1998 13:48:41 GMT
From: Randal Schwartz <merlyn@stonehenge.com>
Subject: Re: -w on production code (was Re: better way of getting the last modified file?)
Message-Id: <8chg0sh2s6.fsf@gadget.cscaper.com>
>>>>> "Tom" == Tom Christiansen <tchrist@mox.perl.com> writes:
Tom> In comp.lang.perl.misc,
Tom> cberry@cinenet.net (Craig Berry) writes:
Tom> : BUGS
Tom> : The -w switch is not mandatory.
Tom> :
Tom> :So clearly someone in the Larry/Randal/Tom triumvirate agrees with you
Tom> :(and me).
Tom> Enough of this silliness. Randal has never had anything to do
Tom> with the free Perl docuematation. Let's give credit where it's
Tom> due.
Perhaps I'll submit a docpatch that removes that BUG. :)
(Yes, I don't agree that it's a bug that the -w switch is not
mandatory; see my other note here.)
print "Just another Perl hacker," # but not what the media calls "hacker!" :-)
## legal fund: $22,319.19 collected, $186,159.85 spent; just 55 more days
## before I go to *prison* for 90 days; email fund@stonehenge.com for details
--
Name: Randal L. Schwartz / Stonehenge Consulting Services (503)777-0095
Keywords: Perl training, UNIX[tm] consulting, video production, skiing, flying
Email: <merlyn@stonehenge.com> Snail: (Call) PGP-Key: (finger merlyn@teleport.com)
Web: <A HREF="http://www.stonehenge.com/merlyn/">My Home Page!</A>
Quote: "I'm telling you, if I could have five lines in my .sig, I would!" -- me
------------------------------
Date: 8 Jul 1998 14:47:40 GMT
From: Tom Christiansen <tchrist@mox.perl.com>
Subject: Re: -w on production code (was Re: better way of getting the last modified file?)
Message-Id: <6o00qc$q38$1@csnews.cs.colorado.edu>
In comp.lang.perl.misc, Randal Schwartz <merlyn@stonehenge.com> writes:
:-w is training wheels.
Please don't let Randal set a bad example for any of you. Just because
he does not deign to use the debugger or -w doesn't mean that this is
good precedent.
Everything I write that takes more than two minutes to type in is done
-w clean and use strict clean. I feel much safer that way. And I leave
those in for production so that when conditions change that I wasn't
expecting, I find the bugs in my code I didn't know about. This has
happened often enough that I consider it important to keep. Imagine if
someone told you that it was fine to develop your program under memory
protection, but that for production, those checks would be removed.
Nutty, I tell you.
--tom
--tom
--
"All things are proceeding rapidly to their contusion." --Larry Wall
------------------------------
Date: 08 Jul 1998 07:58:32 -0700
From: Russ Allbery <rra@stanford.edu>
Subject: Re: -w on production code (was Re: better way of getting the last modified file?)
Message-Id: <m3ogv05qzr.fsf@windlord.Stanford.EDU>
Tom Christiansen <tchrist@mox.perl.com> writes:
> Imagine if someone told you that it was fine to develop your program
> under memory protection, but that for production, those checks would be
> removed. Nutty, I tell you.
I don't run production code inside a debugger or inside Purify all the
time either. And I quite frequently turn off core dumps, for a wide
number of reasons.
--
#!/usr/bin/perl -- Russ Allbery, Just Another Perl Hacker
$^=q;@!>~|{>krw>yn{u<$$<[~||<Juukn{=,<S~|}<Jwx}qn{<Yn{u<Qjltn{ > 0gFzD gD,
00Fz, 0,,( 0hF 0g)F/=, 0> "L$/GEIFewe{,$/ 0C$~> "@=,m,|,(e 0.), 01,pnn,y{
rw} >;,$0=q,$,,($_=$^)=~y,$/ C-~><@=\n\r,-~$:-u/ #y,d,s,(\$.),$1,gee,print
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 08 Jul 1998 15:50:42 GMT
From: bart.mediamind@tornado.be (Bart Lateur)
Subject: Re: -w on production code (was Re: better way of getting the last modified file?)
Message-Id: <35a48bdc.22298231@news.tornado.be>
Lloyd Zusman wrote:
>I see and recognize the value of the `-w' switch, and therefore, I
>believe that there must be *some* reason for its associated behavior
>not becoming the default.
I've always wondered over the same thing. Since "-w" is so damn useful
for Perl newbies, I think they should be enabled by default.
Maybe the optionality ought to be reversed? I.e. by default, the
warnings would be enabled. "-w" would do nothing (backward
compatibility), but "-W", in caps, would switch them off.
Sounds sensible to me, and Mr. Schwartz could stick with Perl. :-)
Bart.
------------------------------
Date: 8 Jul 1998 14:24:19 GMT
From: "Uwe Honekamp" <uwe.honekamp@etas.de>
Subject: Re: Calling DLLs from within PERL
Message-Id: <01bdaa7c$13c55cd0$931a0180@fe13803>
alan_k'necht@canadalife.com wrote in =
<35a37466.1382828@news.worldlinx.com>...
> Is there a way to call DLLs using PERL in a NT environment?
Yes, and there's actually more than one way (as there always is :-)=20
to do this.=20
However, I encourage you to have a look at SWIG, the Simplified=20
Wrapper and Interface Generator. Great tool.
http://www.cs.utah.edu/~beazley/SWIG/
Regards
Uwe
--
Uwe Honekamp * ETAS GmbH * Borsigstr. 10 * D-70469 Stuttgart =20
uwe.honekamp@etas.de * voice: ++49/(0)711/89661-143 * fax: -107
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 8 Jul 1998 15:55:11 +0200
From: real@earthling.net (Real)
Subject: Re: Checking the existence of a url
Message-Id: <MPG.100d98a6ee40817b9896b0@news.surfnet.nl>
Mauro Quartini wrote;
> Hi all,
>
> I have the problem to check a great number of urls (pointing to html
> page): this means to verify if the url is reachable and (if yes) retrive
> the last modification date of the related html page.
>
> I tried to use LWP::Simple library (header function), but it doesnt work
> on all http servers.
>
> I suppose the famous search engines use a similar procedure to check own
> urls ...
>
> Has anyone suggestions?
>
> Thank you all in advance
>
> Mauro Quartini
The method I would use is to retreive the html-page. If you can get it,
the page still exists. If you calculate some sort of checksum, you also
know if the page was modified since you last check.
Below a (canibalized from someone else) Perl-example which stores the
specified page in an array. The first argument is the hostname and the
second is the html-page to retreive.
For example (if your script is called 'check-url');
perl check-url altavista.digital.com /index.html
Of course, you'll have to check for errors by parsing the contents of the
result-array. Try some different kinds of circumstances and you'll know..
Cheers,
Real
#!/usr/bin/perl
use Socket;
sub Element
{
my($idx, $dlm, $line) = @_;
my(@TmpArr) = split(/$dlm/, $line);
return($TmpArr[$idx]);
}
# Get some necessary values
($url, $file) = @ARGV;
if ($#ARGV == -1) { die "Usage: $0 url file\n\tstopped"; }
$host = Element(0,':',Element(0,'/',$url));
$port = Element(1,':',Element(0,'/',$url));
$port = 80 unless $port;
$host = 'localhost' unless $host;
# Setup the ip-connection
$SIG{'Int'} = 'dokill';
sub dokill { kill 9, $child if $child; }
chop($hostname = `hostname`);
($name, $aliases, $proto) = getprotobyname('tcp');
($name, $aliases, $port) = getservbyname($port,'tcp') unless $port =~
/^\d+$/;
print "Using port $port to connect to server on host $host...\n";
($name,$aliases,$type,$len,$thisaddr) = gethostbyname($hostname);
($name, $aliases,$type,$len,$thataddr) = gethostbyname($host);
if (socket(S,AF_INET, SOCK_STREAM, $proto)) {
print "Socket creation succeeded.\n";
} else {
die $!;
}
$sockaddr = 'S n a4 x8';
$this = pack($sockaddr, AF_INET, 0, $thisaddr);
$that = pack($sockaddr, AF_INET, $port, $thataddr);
if (bind(S, $this)) { print "Bind succeeded.\n"; } else { die $!; }
if (connect(S, $that)) { print "Connect succeeded.\n"; } else { die $!; }
# Send the get-request
select(S);
$| = 1;
select(STDOUT);
print S "GET ", $file, "\n";
@Result = <S>;
print "Number of result lines stored is ", $#Result, "\n";
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 08 Jul 1998 14:50:04 GMT
From: John Porter <jdporter@min.net>
Subject: Re: DB_File in the real world.
Message-Id: <35A388EA.47F5@min.net>
Stefaan A Eeckels wrote:
> In article <6nupl6$3eq$1@csnews.cs.colorado.edu>,
> > Right now I need a name for it.
>
> Uncle Tom's File Cabinet?
"Das Kabinett des Doktor Christiansen"?
--
John Porter
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 08 Jul 1998 14:07:53 GMT
From: John Porter <jdporter@min.net>
Subject: Re: diff like module or code in perl?
Message-Id: <35A37F05.32@min.net>
Rigis Julii wrote:
>
> Lenny Bruce Lee a icrit dans le message <35A06D0F.B2BA8CA0@morpheme.com>...
> >Does anyone know of a module that implements the unix diff(1)
> >functionality in perl.
> It would be check File::compare in Cpan
Hmm. That's actually File::Compare, and it comes standard with Perl.
However, all it does is tell you whether the two files are equal
or not. It doesn't give detailed info on the differences.
--
John Porter
------------------------------
Date: 08 Jul 1998 15:52:03 +0200
From: Calle Dybedahl <qdtcall@esb.ericsson.se>
Subject: Re: hash object - how to get keys
Message-Id: <islnq4o3gc.fsf@godzilla.kiere.ericsson.se>
Jerry Flood <jflood@qsun.ho.att.com> writes:
> When I do a keys for the object ref, I don't get anything.
You need to dereference the ref so that keys() can get at the
contents. How to dereference references is described in the perlref manpage.
--
Calle Dybedahl, UNIX Sysadmin
qdtcall@esavionics.se http://www.lysator.liu.se/~calle/
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 08 Jul 1998 15:50:41 GMT
From: Marc.Haber-usenet@gmx.de (Marc Haber)
Subject: How much space left on disk?
Message-Id: <6o04d7$60$1@nz12.rz.uni-karlsruhe.de>
Hi!
I am looking for a way to determine how many bytes of disk space I can
still use with my current privileges, much like the statfs(2) system
call. That call should take quotas and free space into account. I have
looked on the CPAN, but didn't seem to find anything appropriate.
What am I missing?
Any hints will be appreciated.
Greetings
Marc
--
-------------------------------------- !! No courtesy copies, please !! -----
Marc Haber | " Questions are the | Mailadresse im Header
Karlsruhe, Germany | Beginning of Wisdom " | Fon: *49 721 966 32 15
Nordisch by Nature | Lt. Worf, TNG "Rightful Heir" | Fax: *49 721 966 31 29
------------------------------
Date: 8 Jul 1998 14:05:52 GMT
From: Tom Christiansen <tchrist@mox.perl.com>
Subject: Re: How to read UDP?
Message-Id: <6nvuc0$n4o$5@csnews.cs.colorado.edu>
[courtesy cc of this posting sent to cited author via email]
In comp.lang.perl.misc,
Wim Driessens <wim@aw.sgi.com> writes:
:I'm trying to read a UDP packet
See ``UDP: Message Passing'' in the perlipc(1) manpage.
--tom
--
"Any computer scientist who praises orthogonality should be sentenced to
use an Etch-a-Sketch."
--Larry Wall
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 8 Jul 1998 16:54:01 +0100
From: "Clinton Gormley" <clint@netcomuk.co.ukXX>
Subject: Re: Indexing servers
Message-Id: <6o04mg$34q$1@taliesin.netcom.net.uk>
thank you brian for adding exactly nothing to the conversation except
sarcasm
jim added to my limited knowledge and i appreciate that. if you could share
some of this infinite wisdom then you would fulfill the purpose of this
newsgroup... as opposed to now, when you just sound a bit sad
------------------------------
Date: 08 Jul 1998 10:19:52 -0500
From: Jonathan Feinberg <jdf@pobox.com>
To: curry@convex.hp.com (Curry Taylor)
Subject: Re: Literal string evaluation question
Message-Id: <90m4gyjr.fsf@mailhost.panix.com>
Curry: your newsreader is broken. Please fix it so that it wraps
lines correctly.
curry@convex.hp.com (Curry Taylor) writes:
> $one = "(\S+)\s+(\S+)";
Hmm. Now $one contains '(S+)s+(S+)', since backwhacks are
interpolated in double-quotish contexts (such as, say, doublequotes).
Perhaps you meant
$one = '(\S+)\s+(\S+)';
> They're just a bunch of pattern matching strings. Now, I'm
> wondering if there is a way to have the interpreter take
> these expressions and use them for pattern matching at
> run-time.
Yes:
/$one/;
If $one won't be changing, then
/$one/o;
See perlre.
--
Jonathan Feinberg jdf@pobox.com Sunny Brooklyn, NY
http://pobox.com/~jdf/
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 08 Jul 1998 14:01:47 GMT
From: John Porter <jdporter@min.net>
Subject: Re: NEVER "call warn() and return undef" (Re: question about objects)
Message-Id: <35A37D98.2EFB@min.net>
Mark-Jason Dominus wrote:
>
> Errors should be propogated back
> up the call stack until they can be handled.
Surely.
That's why Perl needs a robust exception mechanism -- as everyone will
agree, I'm sure.
--
John Porter
------------------------------
Date: 08 Jul 1998 17:40:02 +0200
From: Gisle Aas <aas@sn.no>
Subject: Re: NEVER "call warn() and return undef" (Re: question about objects)
Message-Id: <m3hg0s1hd9.fsf@furu.g.aas.no>
John Porter <jdporter@min.net> writes:
> Mark-Jason Dominus wrote:
> >
> > Errors should be propogated back
> > up the call stack until they can be handled.
>
> Surely.
> That's why Perl needs a robust exception mechanism -- as everyone will
> agree, I'm sure.
I'm sure that not everyone will agree that Perl lack a robust
exception mechanism today. What's un-robust with what we have?
--
Gisle Aas
------------------------------
Date: 8 Jul 1998 14:07:23 GMT
From: Wolfgang Denk <wd@uebemc.siemens.de>
Subject: Re: new charter and moderator for comp.lang.perl.announce
Message-Id: <6nvuer$sp4$1@galaxy.mchh.siemens.de>
Randal Schwartz <merlyn@stonehenge.com> writes:
>It has become obvious to me over the past few months that the current
>charter for comp.lang.perl.announce, which reads:
..
>is too narrow, and has caused me to either reject worthwhile posts, or
>override the charter repeatedly, often with regret.
...
>So, what do you think a new charter should permit/deny? Who do you
>think should be moderator?
Please do *NOT* allow commercial postings in c.l.p.a
Wolfgang Denk
--
Office: (+49)-89-722-27328, Fax -36703 Wolfgang.Denk@oen.siemens.de
Private: (+49)-89-95720-110, Fax -112 wd@denx.muc.de
If you fail to plan, plan to fail.
------------------------------
Date: 8 Jul 1998 14:38:26 GMT
From: alansz@araw.mede.uic.edu (Alan Schwartz)
Subject: Re: new charter and moderator for comp.lang.perl.announce
Message-Id: <6o0092$1rqc$1@piglet.cc.uic.edu>
[ Cc'd to Randal ]
Daniel Grisinger <dgris@rand.dimensional.com> writes:
>[posted and mailed to the cited author]
>In article <8c4swtjndm.fsf@gadget.cscaper.com>
>Randal Schwartz <merlyn@stonehenge.com> wrote:
>
>> Who do you
>>think should be moderator?
>
>Volunteers?
I'll be happy to serve as a backup or co-moderator for Pat Gunn, who's
expressed interest in moderating clpa. I'm the moderator of another
announce group (rec.games.mud.announce) right now. I'm an avid perl
fan. I've authored (non-perl) books for O'Reilly and Associates, but I
can confidently say that I'm impartial with respect to commercial
advertising. I can work under whatever charter is chosen.
If I can be helpful, let me know.
- Alan
[ Please don't cc postings to me ]
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Alan Schwartz <alansz@uic.edu>
Asst. Prof. of Clinical Decision Making | University of Illinois at Chicago
Adj. Asst. Prof. of Psychology | Department of Medical Education
"Life is what happens to you while you're busy making other plans"
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 08 Jul 1998 15:19:14 GMT
From: Daniel Grisinger <dgris@rand.dimensional.com>
Subject: Re: new charter and moderator for comp.lang.perl.announce
Message-Id: <6o020i$9u3$1@rand.dimensional.com>
[posted to comp.lang.perl.misc and mailed to the cited author]
In article <6nvuer$sp4$1@galaxy.mchh.siemens.de>
Wolfgang Denk <wd@uebemc.siemens.de> wrote:
>Please do *NOT* allow commercial postings in c.l.p.a
While I understand your reluctance to see clpa overwhelmed
by a rash of commercial announcements, I feel that forbidding
all announcements of a commercial nature is a little extreme.
The Perl Conference qualifies as a commercial event, as would
a new edition of the Camel book. I doubt most people would
agree that these should not be announced on clpa. Activestate's
visual perl debugger, while not something I'd use, is relevant
and an announcement of a new version of it should be on-topic.
The charter shouldn't bar anything for being commercial, but it
should restrict _all_ postings to only those things that will
be of direct use and benefit to perl programmers. Tools that make
it easier to program and resources that allow us to become better
perl programmers should be on-topic, regardless of whether somebody
stands to make a financial gain on them.
Regards,
Daniel
--
Daniel Grisinger dgris@perrin.dimensional.com
"No kings, no presidents, just a rough consensus and
running code."
Dave Clark
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 08 Jul 1998 16:15:56 +0100
From: "F.Quednau" <quednauf@nortel.co.uk>
Subject: Re: new charter and moderator for comp.lang.perl.announce
Message-Id: <35A38D2C.D16616A9@nortel.co.uk>
Wolfgang Denk wrote:
>
> Randal Schwartz <merlyn@stonehenge.com> writes:
> Please do *NOT* allow commercial postings in c.l.p.a
Why not? I wouldn't mind if things like new ActiveState, PerlBuilder, books,
etc. would come into announce. It would be quite useful.
What about something like this:
"Commercial postings in c.l.p.a. shall be allowed as long as it is concerned
with:
- new or extended functionality in Perl, including the language, ports and
modules
- new or extended functionality in Perl related tools
- new or extended documentation or learning material on Perl"
- future events that are beneficial to ALL of the Perl community"
Modify at your leisure :)
--
____________________________________________________________
Frank Quednau
http://www.surrey.ac.uk/~me51fq
________________________________________________
------------------------------
Date: 08 Jul 1998 09:47:45 -0600
From: Nathan Torkington <gnat@frii.com>
Subject: Re: new charter and moderator for comp.lang.perl.announce
Message-Id: <5qogv02vku.fsf@prometheus.frii.com>
Randal Schwartz <merlyn@stonehenge.com> writes:
> So, what do you think a new charter should permit/deny? Who do you
> think should be moderator?
As I said to you on #perl, I feel that commercial postings should be
allowed. I think comp.lang.perl.announce should be for announcements
relating to Perl--including conferences, new books, new issues of The
Perl Journal, new modules, and commercial products that use Perl.
Books, conferences, and commercial products that use Perl all serve to
make Perl more accessible and more widely used, which in turn can lead
to more jobs for Perl programmers, better salaries for Perl
programmers, and more (and sometimes better) tools for Perl
programmers. I think those are good and desirable ends.
My suggestion for a charter was:
| comp.lang.perl.announce is for announcements of:
| - software that is, is written in, embeds, or otherwise uses Perl.
| - events that contain Perl tracks or tutorials, or otherwise
| significantly feature Perl.
| - books, magazines, and journals that have a chapter or article on
| Perl.
|
| Commercial posts (those involving products for which money must change
| hands) will be marked [COMMERCIAL]. Posts about web software will be
| marked [WEB].
|
| Announcements of Perl-related web sites should go to the moderator of
| the Perl Reference Guide on www.perl.com. That moderator will then
| collectively announce new sites on comp.lang.perl.announce. Job
| offers and resumes should go to the appropriate *.jobs.* newsgroups.
|
| To avoid clutter, don't announce changes to already announced software
| unless the change represents a major advance or a significant security
| bugfix. Limit announcements of conferences to a single general
| announcement, the call for papers (if applicable), and a reminder for
| each registration deadline.
I volunteer to moderate, because I feel that the advocate of the
charter should be the moderator. It seems unreasonable to ask someone
to endure flamage and potential lawsuits enforcing a charter that
someone else came up with. I have enough confidence in my abilities
to be impartial that I think I can manage this.
As I said to Randal, I'll welcome and encourage posts from his
training organization, even though he could be thought of as a
"competitor". I just want us all to get along, and (just as
important) I want posts to start flowing through
comp.lang.perl.announce again.
Nat
------------------------------
Date: 08 Jul 1998 17:27:07 +0200
From: Gisle Aas <aas@sn.no>
Subject: Re: Oh man, DO I love Perl ! (References to things that go out of scope)
Message-Id: <m3ogv01hys.fsf@furu.g.aas.no>
Zenin <zenin@bawdycaste.org> writes:
> : Fields beginning with "_" are made private and are not visible in
> : subclasses. They can be used without risk. Subclasses are allowed to
> : override public field names ("b" above) but will get a warning under
> : -w.
>
> Hmm...but the sub class can't have it's own copy of the same
> named field?
>
> The warning is nice to have, but real private fields would be much
> better. Without such fields, an upgrade of a super could cause
> conflicts (by creating new "private" fields the older sub was
> already using) with it's subs just as easily as the case is now.
I don't follow you. Care to try to explain once more?
package B;
use fields qw(foo bar _foo);
package D;
use base 'B';
use fields qw(bar baz);
use fields qw(_foo _bar);
package E;
use base 'D';
The '_foo' in B and the '_foo' in D is separate. The same 'foo' is
visible in all classes. The 'bar' in B and the 'bar' in D is
separate. In E 'foo' from B and 'bar'/'baz' from D is visible; the
private fields (and 'bar' from B) are not.
If 'B' at some point introduce a new field called 'baz', then there
will be no conflict with the use of the field 'baz' in D.
> I'm just not sure such "real" private fields are possible while
> using a hash style object, at least not in the current language
> implementation.
> : Typing 'my A::Very::Long::Class:Name $self' in every method is not
> : very attractive though (and 'my __PACKAGE__ $self' does not seem to
> : work either).
>
> Isn't there talk abount making my __PACKAGE__ $self work, somehow?
Yes.
--
Gisle Aas
------------------------------
Date: 8 Jul 1998 13:46:25 GMT
From: Tom Christiansen <tchrist@mox.perl.com>
Subject: Re: Passing open file descriptor to an unrelated process
Message-Id: <6nvt7h$n4o$1@csnews.cs.colorado.edu>
[courtesy cc of this posting sent to cited author via email]
In comp.lang.perl.misc,
Harinder Pal Singh Takhar <htakhar@hotmail.com> writes:
:I don't think it can be done in C in UNIX.
Yes, it can. See Stevens. We just don't have sendmsg() in Perl.
--tom
--
You are the sponsor for the account andrew (Andrew Hume).
------------------------------
Date: 8 Jul 1998 15:42:51 GMT
From: darren@Quint.somtel.com (Darren Henderson)
Subject: perl 5.004.04 on AIX 4.2.1
Message-Id: <6o041r$618$1@garnet.mint.net>
I'm having some trouble getting perl 5.004.04 to compile under AIX 4.2.1.
It's comming down to the following.....
AutoSplitting perl library
Making DynaLoader (static)
gcc -L/usr/local/lib -bE:perl.exp -o perl perlmain.o
lib/auto/DynaLoad
er/DynaLoader.a libperl.a `cat ext.libs` -lnsl -ldbm -ldl -lld -lm -lc
-lbsd -l
PW
ld: 0706-005 Cannot find or open file: libgcc.a
ld:open(): No such file or directory
ld: 0706-005 Cannot find or open file: libgcc.a
ld:open(): No such file or directory
gcc: file path prefix `/usr/local/lib/gcc-lib/E:perl.exp/2.8.1/' never
used
make: The error code from the last command is 1.
Stop.
This paticular attempt was using gcc 2.8.1. I'm really not sure what to
make of this. libgcc.a exists and lives in the deafult location. Also note
the gcc: line toward teh end, the path prefix listed there is incorrect
(the E:perl.exp should be rs6000-ibm-aix4.2.1.0), the correct value was
being used up to that point.
Any one have similar problems or thoughts on the possible problem?
Thanks,
Darren
______________________________________________________________________________
Darren Henderson
darren@bmv.state.me.us
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 08 Jul 1998 10:11:01 -0400
From: soswww@ibm.net (Dorene Clark)
Subject: Perl and OS/2???
Message-Id: <133o1sd+aZIM090yn@ibm.net>
Can someone tell me if you can run a Perl script
under OS/2? I'm using Lotus Go Webserver and I'm
trying to set up a script that will allow our users
to upload files to our server from our web page. I
have had no luck. I've tried several upload scripts
that I got on the web but they don't seem to work.
That's why I thought it might be OS/2? If it doesn't
work with OS/2, does anybody know how I can
accomplish this?? Appreciate any help. Thanks in advance.
Dorene
soswww@ibm.net
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 8 Jul 1998 09:54:08 -0400
From: englehart scott <sengle1@gl.umbc.edu>
Subject: Perl Doc Notation
Message-Id: <Pine.SGI.3.96.980708095145.13600A-100000@umbc9.umbc.edu>
What does C<undef> I<or> L</exists> and other similar notation mean?
Thanks,
Scott
------------------------------
Date: 8 Jul 1998 10:24:45 -0400
From: charlot@CAM.ORG (Richard Bellavance)
Subject: Re: Perl Doc Notation
Message-Id: <6nvvfd$mtp@ocean.CAM.ORG>
In article <Pine.SGI.3.96.980708095145.13600A-100000@umbc9.umbc.edu>,
englehart scott <sengle1@gl.umbc.edu> wrote:
>
>What does C<undef> I<or> L</exists> and other similar notation mean?
>
They are POD markers. See "perldoc perlpod" for all the details.
Richard.
--
Richard Bellavance |
| "Rien n'est plus imminent que l'impossible."
charlot@cam.org | - Victor Hugo
http://www.cam.org/~charlot/ |
------------------------------
Date: 08 Jul 1998 10:49:09 -0500
From: Jonathan Feinberg <jdf@pobox.com>
To: englehart scott <sengle1@gl.umbc.edu>
Subject: Re: Perl Doc Notation
Message-Id: <ww9ofimi.fsf@mailhost.panix.com>
englehart scott <sengle1@gl.umbc.edu> writes:
> What does C<undef> I<or> L</exists> and other similar notation mean?
# perldoc perlpod
--
Jonathan Feinberg jdf@pobox.com Sunny Brooklyn, NY
http://pobox.com/~jdf/
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 08 Jul 1998 11:44:44 -0400
From: comdog@computerdog.com (brian d foy)
Subject: Re: Perl Doc Notation
Message-Id: <comdog-ya02408000R0807981144440001@news.panix.com>
Keywords: from just another new york perl hacker
In article <Pine.SGI.3.96.980708095145.13600A-100000@umbc9.umbc.edu>, englehart scott <sengle1@gl.umbc.edu> posted:
>What does C<undef> I<or> L</exists> and other similar notation mean?
% perldoc perlpod
[snip]
I<text> italicize text, used for emphasis or variables
B<text> embolden text, used for switches and programs
S<text> text contains non-breaking spaces
C<code> literal code
L<name> A link (cross reference) to name
[snip]
%
see the perlpod man page for all the details.
good luck :)
--
brian d foy <comdog@computerdog.com>
CGI Meta FAQ <URL:http://computerdog.com/CGI_MetaFAQ.html>
Comprehensive Perl Archive Network (CPAN) <URL:http://www.perl.com>
Perl Mongers Travel Deals! <URL:http://www.pm.org/travel.html>
------------------------------
Date: 8 Mar 97 21:33:47 GMT (Last modified)
From: Perl-Request@ruby.oce.orst.edu (Perl-Users-Digest Admin)
Subject: Digest Administrivia (Last modified: 8 Mar 97)
Message-Id: <null>
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------------------------------
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