[9428] in Perl-Users-Digest
Perl-Users Digest, Issue: 3022 Volume: 8
daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (Perl-Users Digest)
Tue Jun 30 14:07:43 1998
Date: Tue, 30 Jun 98 10:56:28 -0700
From: Perl-Users Digest <Perl-Users-Request@ruby.OCE.ORST.EDU>
To: Perl-Users@ruby.OCE.ORST.EDU (Perl-Users Digest)
Perl-Users Digest Tue, 30 Jun 1998 Volume: 8 Number: 3022
Today's topics:
Re: Sending mail through another server? (-)
Re: Sending mail through another server? <rootbeer@teleport.com>
Re: Sending mail through another server? (-)
Re: Sending mail through another server? <jdf@pobox.com>
Re: Sending mail through another server? <jklein@alerts.co.il>
Re: Sending mail through another server? (Jeffrey R. Drumm)
Re: Sending mail through another server? (Ford Prefect)
Re: Sending mail through another server? (Jeffrey R. Drumm)
Re: Sending mail through another server? (Steve Linberg)
Shopping Cart <darrensw@pacbell.net>
Re: Shopping Cart <rootbeer@teleport.com>
snmp module <gorkem@gncom.com>
Re: snmp module (brian moore)
So, what's wrong with JAVA? <NOSPAMkEynOn@panix.comNOSPAM>
Re: So, what's wrong with JAVA? <rootbeer@teleport.com>
Re: So, what's wrong with JAVA? <zenin@bawdycaste.org>
Digest Administrivia (Last modified: 8 Mar 97) (Perl-Users-Digest Admin)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Sun, 28 Jun 1998 12:34:50 GMT
From: root.noharvest.\@not_even\here.com (-)
Subject: Re: Sending mail through another server?
Message-Id: <35963800.149945650@news2.cais.com>
fordprefect@nospam.bigfooot.com (Ford Prefect) Said this:
>Hey gang,
>
> I was wondering if someone could point me in the right
>direction. I'm looking to send e-mail via a perl script through our
>SMTP server here. The box that will be running the script is an NT
>box and does not have a mail package in it. The only examples I've
>seen are ones that have sendmail already on the box. I did a scan on
>this group and through 3 different perl books ( don't know if they're
>that good ) and I haven't seen anything that might kick me off in the
>right direction. Any ideas?
>
Sounds to me like a spamming effort.
The answer is you need to be able to make a telnet connection to port
25 on the sendmail machine.
I'll show you how to make the connection, but I won't tell you how to
talk to sendmail. I figure if you have a valid reason to be doing
this, you'll already know the syntax to communicate with a sendmail
server, if you are a spammer, you'll only know that you have an
expensive CD with a couple million bad email addresses that you want
to spit out onto the internet. (samford Wallace sell you a CD, did
he??) :)
This will allow you to talk to sendmail on any machine (just change
$them = 'mail.spamcity.com'; to the appropriate hostname.) - You'll
still need to know what commands to pass to sendmail, but using this
you'll have the means.
$port = 25;
$them = 'mail.spamcity.com';
$AF_INET = 2;
$SOCK_STREAM = 1;
$SIG{'INT'} = 'dokill';
sub dokill {
kill 9,$child if $child;
}
$sockaddr = 'S n a4 x8';
($name,$aliases,$proto) = getprotobyname('tcp');
($name,$aliases,$port) = getservbyname($port,'tcp')
unless $port =~ /^\d+$/;;
($name,$aliases,$type,$len,$thisaddr) =
gethostbyname($hostname);
($name,$aliases,$type,$len,$thataddr) = gethostbyname($them);
$this = pack($sockaddr, $AF_INET, 0, $thisaddr);
$that = pack($sockaddr, $AF_INET, $port, $thataddr);
if (socket(S, $AF_INET, $SOCK_STREAM, $proto)) {
print "socket ok\n";
}
else {
die $!;
}
if (bind(S, $this)) {
print "bind ok\n";
}
else {
die $!;
}
if (connect(S,$that)) {
print "connect ok\n";
}
else {
die $!;
}
select(S); $| = 1; select(STDOUT);
send ( S, "HELO some.machine.com\n", 0);
---------------------END-OF-CODE------------------------
At this point, you have initiated contact with a sendmail server
(which in this case lives on mail.spamcity.com, I doubt it's a real
host name). From here, you just need to do:
send (S, "<something>\n", 0);
for the process of sending a message through the mail server. I used
this on a win95 computer to read a table exported from access to
generate messages to customers when their order status changes. I
haven't used it in a while, so I can't remember why I grouped all the
commands together and did it all in one send(). it may have broke
when I tried to do it with a series of send()'s.
So, if this doesn't work:
send (S, "<fist step in talking to sendmail>\n", 0);
send (S, "<second step in talking to sendmail>\n", 0);
etc, etc.
Then do this:
send (S, "<first step in talking to sendmail>\n<second step in talking
to sendmail>\n<etc>\n<etc>\n", 0);
or even:
$sendmail_out = "<first step in talking to sendmail>\n<second step in
talking to sendmail>\n<etc>\n<etc>\n";
send (S, $sendmail_out, 0);
I can't remember why I changed it, I have the top way commented out
and the bottom way added in to the script I have. ?? not sure why.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 29 Jun 1998 07:36:19 GMT
From: Tom Phoenix <rootbeer@teleport.com>
Subject: Re: Sending mail through another server?
Message-Id: <Pine.GSO.3.96.980629003405.21917P-100000@user2.teleport.com>
On Sun, 28 Jun 1998, it was written:
> $SIG{'INT'} = 'dokill';
> sub dokill {
> kill 9,$child if $child;
> }
Do you always use hand grenades to turn off the television? Try a kinder
signal before you pull out the big guns. You'll be glad you did. Cheers!
--
Tom Phoenix Perl Training and Hacking Esperanto
Randal Schwartz Case: http://www.rahul.net/jeffrey/ovs/
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 29 Jun 1998 08:28:25 GMT
From: root.noharvest.\@not_even\here.com (-)
Subject: Re: Sending mail through another server?
Message-Id: <35974ef1.221192679@news2.cais.com>
Tom Phoenix <rootbeer@teleport.com> Said this:
>On Sun, 28 Jun 1998, it was written:
>
>> $SIG{'INT'} = 'dokill';
>> sub dokill {
>> kill 9,$child if $child;
>> }
>
>Do you always use hand grenades to turn off the television? Try a kinder
>signal before you pull out the big guns. You'll be glad you did. Cheers!
>
Actually, that code was taken directly from the CPAN. I only modified
it slightly to deal with a connection to sendmail (port 25).
Since you took the time to jump on in and let us know that you feel
the need to try to display some semblance of knowledge, wouldn't it be
nice if you did a little more than just tell someone they were wrong?
I mean, if you are the expert, let us know how you would do this
differently. Or perhaps you haven't gotten that far yet? Maybe you
just know this isn't the best way, but you're still waiting for the
advanced course so you can find out the right way?
------------------------------
Date: 29 Jun 1998 07:41:53 -0500
From: Jonathan Feinberg <jdf@pobox.com>
Subject: Re: Sending mail through another server?
Message-Id: <zpewtm5q.fsf@mailhost.panix.com>
[note: I tried to send this as email to the poster, rather than
posting it here, but I cannot figure out what his address might be]
root.noharvest.\@not_even\here.com (-) writes:
> Tom Phoenix <rootbeer@teleport.com> Said this:
>
> >On Sun, 28 Jun 1998, it was written:
> >
> >> $SIG{'INT'} = 'dokill';
> >> sub dokill {
> >> kill 9,$child if $child;
> >> }
> >
> >Do you always use hand grenades to turn off the television? Try a kinder
> >signal before you pull out the big guns. You'll be glad you did. Cheers!
> Since you took the time to jump on in and let us know that you feel
> the need to try to display some semblance of knowledge, wouldn't it be
> nice if you did a little more than just tell someone they were wrong?
Your attitude is so misguided that I can guarantee that you've been
killfiled by people who'd maybe otherwise be in a position to help you
learn something. I'm certainly adding you to my killfile. Here's
why: Tom Phoenix is one of the most knowledgable, patient, and kind
people to frequent the group. If you'd read all of his posts over the
course of any given day, you'd see that for yourself. Good luck.
*plonk*
--
Jonathan Feinberg jdf@pobox.com Sunny Brooklyn, NY
http://pobox.com/~jdf/
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 29 Jun 1998 14:03:34 +0300
From: Yossi Klein <jklein@alerts.co.il>
Subject: Re: Sending mail through another server?
Message-Id: <Pine.SOL.3.95.980629134758.13523K-100000@cain>
On Mon, 29 Jun 1998, it was written:
> Tom Phoenix <rootbeer@teleport.com> Said this:
>
> >On Sun, 28 Jun 1998, it was written:
> >
> >> $SIG{'INT'} = 'dokill';
> >> sub dokill {
> >> kill 9,$child if $child;
> >> }
> >
> >Do you always use hand grenades to turn off the television? Try a kinder
> >signal before you pull out the big guns. You'll be glad you did. Cheers!
> >
>
> Actually, that code was taken directly from the CPAN. I only modified
> it slightly to deal with a connection to sendmail (port 25).
>
>
> Since you took the time to jump on in and let us know that you feel
> the need to try to display some semblance of knowledge, wouldn't it be
> nice if you did a little more than just tell someone they were wrong?
> I mean, if you are the expert, let us know how you would do this
> differently. Or perhaps you haven't gotten that far yet? Maybe you
> just know this isn't the best way, but you're still waiting for the
> advanced course so you can find out the right way?
>
>
(I admit that I rarely post, and when I have it has always been
Perl-related, but I just can't stop myself this time).
What a totally uncalled for response! Tom, as usual, made a very
constructive suggestion that (presumably), anybody who knows even basic
Perl, could implement w/o being given the exact code. If it wasn't enough,
then a polite request would have been sufficient. This is NOT the way to
get help (especially from (in my opinion), the MOST helpful of all the
Perl gurus).
Knowing Tom (which I don't except through his multitude of helpful
responses), he probably won't take offense, but I do.
(Sorry for cluttering up this group with a no-Perl-content post).
Eagerly awaiting the moderated Perl group more than ever,
Yossi Klein
Expert Alerts Inc.
PS I would have sent this as personal email to the poster, but address
munging got in my way.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 29 Jun 1998 11:57:29 GMT
From: drummj@mail.mmc.org (Jeffrey R. Drumm)
Subject: Re: Sending mail through another server?
Message-Id: <3597786e.858786159@news.mmc.org>
[ posted to comp.lang.perl.misc and a courtesy copy was NOT mailed to the cited
author because of a munged mail address ]
On Mon, 29 Jun 1998 08:28:25 GMT, root.noharvest.\@not_even\here.com (-) wrote:
>Tom Phoenix <rootbeer@teleport.com> Said this:
>
>>On Sun, 28 Jun 1998, it was written:
>>
>>> $SIG{'INT'} = 'dokill';
>>> sub dokill {
>>> kill 9,$child if $child;
>>> }
>>
>>Do you always use hand grenades to turn off the television? Try a kinder
>>signal before you pull out the big guns. You'll be glad you did. Cheers!
>Actually, that code was taken directly from the CPAN. I only modified
>it slightly to deal with a connection to sendmail (port 25).
Hmm. Then don't you think an attribution was in order, especially after stating
"I'll show you how to make the connection . . ."?
You posted the code as though you were it's author; is it too much for _us_ to
expect that you think you know what you're doing?
>Since you took the time to jump on in and let us know that you feel
>the need to try to display some semblance of knowledge, wouldn't it be
>nice if you did a little more than just tell someone they were wrong?
He did. Either you weren't reading carefully enough, or they haven't covered
metaphors yet in your current course of study.
In any event, the documentation for 'kill' will prove enlightening.
>I mean, if you are the expert, let us know how you would do this
>differently. Or perhaps you haven't gotten that far yet? Maybe you
>just know this isn't the best way, but you're still waiting for the
>advanced course so you can find out the right way?
Interesting. This from someone who automatically assumed the person he was
attempting to help was a spammer, and made no bones about spelling it out.
And now, to the specific subject of the original poster's message:
NT does not come with an SMTP daemon a la 'sendmail', so any perl application
hoping to take advantage of SMTP must rely on a mailer with some intelligence,
or the programmer must spend a _lot_ of time making his application intelligent
enough to deal with reliable mail delivery.
Thus, assuming that spam is the intended use of the application may well be
incorrect, and certainly insulting to the individual requesting assistance.
And for your further edification (as well as to assist the original poster),
Net::SMTP, along with the rest of Graham Barr's libnet distribution, is
included with the Sarathy port of Perl 5.004_02. An excellent example is
included in its documentation.
Much better than reinventing the wheel (or, as in your case, stealing someone
else's less-than-optimal wheel and posting it as your own), don't you think?
--
Jeffrey R. Drumm, Systems Integration Specialist
Maine Medical Center - Medical Information Systems Group
drummj@mail.mmc.org
"Broken? Hell no! Uniquely implemented!" - me
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 29 Jun 1998 15:04:04 GMT
From: fordprefect@bigfoot.nospam.com (Ford Prefect)
Subject: Re: Sending mail through another server?
Message-Id: <3597aa01.234430533@news.charm.net>
Jeffery,
Thanks man. This is just what I needed. My news server
doesn't have a copy of Tom Phoenix's mail yet so I don't know what
exactly happened. I'm taking it that he flamed me for thinking that I
wanted a spam tool. I'm sorry if you got into a flame war on my
behalf.
Tom if you *do* read this you couldn't be further from the
truth. I use a small script to grab web logs from our servers and
parse them out nightly. I wanted to be able to mail the results with
any problems that might have occured to myself and several others in
the office that get them on a regular basis. Thats all. No hidden
agendas. Maybe I should have posted this along with the original post
but I honestly didn't think someone would be paranoid about my
request. I've been lurking long enough that I thought that you of
all people would have pointed me at least to the right docs. Guess I
was wrong. :(
Ford
On Mon, 29 Jun 1998 11:57:29 GMT, drummj@mail.mmc.org (Jeffrey R.
Drumm) wrote:
>[ posted to comp.lang.perl.misc and a courtesy copy was NOT mailed to the cited
>author because of a munged mail address ]
>
>On Mon, 29 Jun 1998 08:28:25 GMT, root.noharvest.\@not_even\here.com (-) wrote:
>
>>Tom Phoenix <rootbeer@teleport.com> Said this:
>>
>>>On Sun, 28 Jun 1998, it was written:
>>>
>>>> $SIG{'INT'} = 'dokill';
>>>> sub dokill {
>>>> kill 9,$child if $child;
>>>> }
>>>
>>>Do you always use hand grenades to turn off the television? Try a kinder
>>>signal before you pull out the big guns. You'll be glad you did. Cheers!
>
>>Actually, that code was taken directly from the CPAN. I only modified
>>it slightly to deal with a connection to sendmail (port 25).
>
>Hmm. Then don't you think an attribution was in order, especially after stating
>"I'll show you how to make the connection . . ."?
>
>You posted the code as though you were it's author; is it too much for _us_ to
>expect that you think you know what you're doing?
>
>>Since you took the time to jump on in and let us know that you feel
>>the need to try to display some semblance of knowledge, wouldn't it be
>>nice if you did a little more than just tell someone they were wrong?
>
>He did. Either you weren't reading carefully enough, or they haven't covered
>metaphors yet in your current course of study.
>
>In any event, the documentation for 'kill' will prove enlightening.
>
>>I mean, if you are the expert, let us know how you would do this
>>differently. Or perhaps you haven't gotten that far yet? Maybe you
>>just know this isn't the best way, but you're still waiting for the
>>advanced course so you can find out the right way?
>
>Interesting. This from someone who automatically assumed the person he was
>attempting to help was a spammer, and made no bones about spelling it out.
>
>And now, to the specific subject of the original poster's message:
>
>NT does not come with an SMTP daemon a la 'sendmail', so any perl application
>hoping to take advantage of SMTP must rely on a mailer with some intelligence,
>or the programmer must spend a _lot_ of time making his application intelligent
>enough to deal with reliable mail delivery.
>
>Thus, assuming that spam is the intended use of the application may well be
>incorrect, and certainly insulting to the individual requesting assistance.
>
>And for your further edification (as well as to assist the original poster),
>Net::SMTP, along with the rest of Graham Barr's libnet distribution, is
>included with the Sarathy port of Perl 5.004_02. An excellent example is
>included in its documentation.
>
>Much better than reinventing the wheel (or, as in your case, stealing someone
>else's less-than-optimal wheel and posting it as your own), don't you think?
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 29 Jun 1998 16:00:44 GMT
From: drummj@mail.mmc.org (Jeffrey R. Drumm)
Subject: Re: Sending mail through another server?
Message-Id: <3597b82c.875102631@news.mmc.org>
[ posted to comp.lang.perl.misc and a courtesy copy was NOT mailed to the cited
author because of a munged address ]
On Mon, 29 Jun 1998 15:04:04 GMT, fordprefect@bigfoot.nospam.com (Ford Prefect)
wrote:
>Jeffery,
s/er/re/;
>
> Thanks man. This is just what I needed. My news server
>doesn't have a copy of Tom Phoenix's mail yet so I don't know what
>exactly happened. I'm taking it that he flamed me for thinking that I
>wanted a spam tool. I'm sorry if you got into a flame war on my
>behalf.
You're welcome. Unfortunately, it wasn't Tom that flamed you; Tom merely
pointed out to someone calling himself root.noharvest that his solution to your
problem was not a good one, and gave him a pointer as to why. root then flamed
Tom.
> Tom if you *do* read this you couldn't be further from the
>truth. I use a small script to grab web logs from our servers and
>parse them out nightly. I wanted to be able to mail the results with
>any problems that might have occured to myself and several others in
>the office that get them on a regular basis. Thats all. No hidden
>agendas. Maybe I should have posted this along with the original post
>but I honestly didn't think someone would be paranoid about my
>request. I've been lurking long enough that I thought that you of
>all people would have pointed me at least to the right docs. Guess I
>was wrong. :(
s/Tom/root.noharvest/;
>Ford
--
Jeffrey R. Drumm, Systems Integration Specialist
Maine Medical Center - Medical Information Systems Group
drummj@mail.mmc.org
"Broken? Hell no! Uniquely implemented!" - me
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 29 Jun 1998 16:21:58 -0400
From: linberg@literacy.upenn.edu (Steve Linberg)
Subject: Re: Sending mail through another server?
Message-Id: <linberg-2906981621580001@projdirc.literacy.upenn.edu>
In article <35974ef1.221192679@news2.cais.com>,
root.noharvest.\@not_even\here.com wrote:
> Since you took the time to jump on in and let us know that you feel
> the need to try to display some semblance of knowledge
[emphatic snippage]
If you had any clue about this newsgroup, you'd know about Tom. Clearly
you don't. I wonder how many killfiles you just leaped headfirst into.
*plonk*
_____________________________________________________________________
Steve Linberg National Center on Adult Literacy
Systems Programmer &c. University of Pennsylvania
linberg@literacy.upenn.edu http://www.literacyonline.org
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 29 Jun 1998 19:20:43 -0700
From: "Darren Sweeney" <darrensw@pacbell.net>
Subject: Shopping Cart
Message-Id: <6n9i89$vbg$1@nnrp3.snfc21.pbi.net>
Hi all
Any ideas where I can get a good shopping cart perl/cgi script.
I have ruled out Minivend and Selina Sols for two different reasons...are
these the only two ?
Thanks people.
Darren
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 30 Jun 1998 03:30:41 GMT
From: Tom Phoenix <rootbeer@teleport.com>
Subject: Re: Shopping Cart
Message-Id: <Pine.GSO.3.96.980629203023.17225H-100000@user2.teleport.com>
On Mon, 29 Jun 1998, Darren Sweeney wrote:
> Any ideas where I can get a good shopping cart perl/cgi script.
If you're wishing merely to _find_ (as opposed to write) programs,
this newsgroup may not be the best resource for you. There are many
freeware and shareware archives which you can find by searching Yahoo
or a similar service. Hope this helps!
--
Tom Phoenix Perl Training and Hacking Esperanto
Randal Schwartz Case: http://www.rahul.net/jeffrey/ovs/
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 30 Jun 1998 16:20:31 -0400
From: "Gorkem Yuksel" <gorkem@gncom.com>
Subject: snmp module
Message-Id: <6n8t26$9cu$1@demon.uunet.ca>
Ok, well here is my problem... We are running BSDI here with Perl 5.004.
Now I am working on a perl program that requires the SNMP module, yet when I
got the SNMP module, it said I required the UCD-SNMP program Version 3.3 or
higher.. now when i try to install this UCD-SNMP program, I keep getting
errors from the "snmp.c" program during compling. Is there a special way of
compiling this program.. OR DO I EVEN NEED THIS PROGRAM to access SNMP on a
machine that is already SNMP ready??? As far as I can make out.. this
UCD-SNMP program is a daemon for SNMP interaction.. please let me know if I
am wrong.. thank you.
Gorkem Yuksel
GlobeNet Communications
------------------------------
Date: 30 Jun 1998 02:49:33 GMT
From: bem@news.cmc.net (brian moore)
Subject: Re: snmp module
Message-Id: <slrn6pgki2.7li.bem@thorin.cmc.net>
On Tue, 30 Jun 1998 16:20:31 -0400,
Gorkem Yuksel <gorkem@gncom.com> wrote:
> Ok, well here is my problem... We are running BSDI here with Perl 5.004.
> Now I am working on a perl program that requires the SNMP module, yet when I
> got the SNMP module, it said I required the UCD-SNMP program Version 3.3 or
> higher.. now when i try to install this UCD-SNMP program, I keep getting
> errors from the "snmp.c" program during compling. Is there a special way of
> compiling this program.. OR DO I EVEN NEED THIS PROGRAM to access SNMP on a
> machine that is already SNMP ready??? As far as I can make out.. this
> UCD-SNMP program is a daemon for SNMP interaction.. please let me know if I
> am wrong.. thank you.
Um, isn't this really a question about UCD-SNMP then? Try
comp.protocols.snmp.
As for what UCD-SNMP is: it's a daemon, it's a library, it's a set of
utilities. You need it for the SNMP module for the library. The
author of UCD-SNMP hangs out in comp.protocols.snmp and is quite
cordial and helpful and it's a nice product (as is the module).
--
Brian Moore Kill A Spammer For Jesus
Sysadmin, C/Perl Hacker, Usenet Vandal
------------------------------
Date: 30 Jun 1998 03:47:24 GMT
From: k y n n <NOSPAMkEynOn@panix.comNOSPAM>
Subject: So, what's wrong with JAVA?
Message-Id: <6n9n4c$s42@news1.panix.com>
I've been muddling along with C and Perl for years, but now I find
myself under a strong and mysterious pressure to LEARN JAVA. Perhaps
this weird sense of being under pressure comes from seeing how books
on Java are slowly taking over my local bookstore (I managed to resist
when C++ books started displacing C books in said bookstore, but that
was just limited to C stuff; Java books are overrunning everything
these days). Or perhaps it comes from the recent frontpage NYT
article to the effect that nowadays merely announcing one knows Java
sets off a stampede of people intent on giving one all their money...
So, I ask myself, is this all just hype du jour? Is it really worth
it to jump on this bandwagon?
This is the best I can do as far as lists of pros and cons goes:
Cons:
1. It's owned by a private corporation (more or less?).
2. It's yet one more syntax to write bugs in.
Pros:
1. It may be a hitch (though admittedly a tiny one) in Bill Gates'
World Domination Plan.
2. Good class library.
3. Pretty fast for an interpreted language.
Any others?
Thanks,
K.
--
To those who prefer to reply by e-mail, please remove the upper-case
letters from the return address in the header. Thank you. K.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 30 Jun 1998 03:56:59 GMT
From: Tom Phoenix <rootbeer@teleport.com>
Subject: Re: So, what's wrong with JAVA?
Message-Id: <Pine.GSO.3.96.980629205556.17225M-100000@user2.teleport.com>
On 30 Jun 1998, k y n n wrote:
> Newsgroups: comp.lang.perl.misc
> Subject: So, what's wrong with JAVA?
Perhaps the docs, FAQs, and newsgroups about Java can give you more and
better information than we can here. Hope this helps!
--
Tom Phoenix Perl Training and Hacking Esperanto
Randal Schwartz Case: http://www.rahul.net/jeffrey/ovs/
------------------------------
Date: 30 Jun 1998 04:22:45 GMT
From: Zenin <zenin@bawdycaste.org>
Subject: Re: So, what's wrong with JAVA?
Message-Id: <899181061.65216@thrush.omix.com>
k y n n <NOSPAMkEynOn@panix.comNOSPAM> wrote:
: I've been muddling along with C and Perl for years, but now I find
: myself under a strong and mysterious pressure to LEARN JAVA. Perhaps
: this weird sense of being under pressure comes from seeing how books
: on Java are slowly taking over my local bookstore
>snip<
Have you seen how many NT books are around now? I could bring
up the bridge story, but we all know it. I'm not saying Java
is bad (not saying it's good either), but don't make any
judgements "just because everyone else is doing it".
: So, I ask myself, is this all just hype du jour?
Huge piles of it, yes.
: Is it really worth it to jump on this bandwagon?
Could be, depends. It's over hyped to be sure, but it still
has its place and will be much more important once the
marketing people go back to ignoring it the way they should
and like they do to every other language.
: This is the best I can do as far as lists of pros and cons goes:
: Cons:
: 1. It's owned by a private corporation (more or less?).
I'd say less then more, but yes.
: 2. It's yet one more syntax to write bugs in.
Nothing wrong with learning another language. One of the only
promises Java has liven upto is that the language (the API not
withstanding...) is pretty darn simple. Much Simpler then
C++, Perl, etc. If this simplicity is a Good Thing[tm], well,
the jury is still out. Anyway, it does make it easy to "try out"
without much rampup time.
: Pros:
: 1. It may be a hitch (though admittedly a tiny one) in Bill Gates'
: World Domination Plan.
Could be a big one. Not on it's own, but what it represents.
A move to open standards based coding and platform independence.
As soon as Microsoft loses its stronghold on the OS market, it
will fall and fall hard. Microsoft can not compete on an even
playing field, never could. The OS has been there leading edge,
not the quality or price of there products.
: 2. Good class library.
s/Good/Bloated/; # :-)
: 3. Pretty fast for an interpreted language.
You're joking right? Even for an interpreted language, it's still
slow. It's getting better every day yes, but it's not there yet.
The best pro for Java? Java is better then C++, but then so is a
swift kick to the head. :-)
--
-Zenin
zenin@archive.rhps.org
------------------------------
Date: 8 Mar 97 21:33:47 GMT (Last modified)
From: Perl-Request@ruby.oce.orst.edu (Perl-Users-Digest Admin)
Subject: Digest Administrivia (Last modified: 8 Mar 97)
Message-Id: <null>
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End of Perl-Users Digest V8 Issue 3022
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