[9393] in Perl-Users-Digest
Perl-Users Digest, Issue: 2988 Volume: 8
daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (Perl-Users Digest)
Fri Jun 26 00:08:20 1998
Date: Thu, 25 Jun 98 21:01:35 -0700
From: Perl-Users Digest <Perl-Users-Request@ruby.OCE.ORST.EDU>
To: Perl-Users@ruby.OCE.ORST.EDU (Perl-Users Digest)
Perl-Users Digest Thu, 25 Jun 1998 Volume: 8 Number: 2988
Today's topics:
Re: What a Crappy World (I R A Aggie)
Re: What a Crappy World (I R A Aggie)
Re: What a Crappy World (I R A Aggie)
Re: What a Crappy World <*@qz.to>
Re: What a Crappy World <ljz@asfast.com>
Re: What a Crappy World <ljz@asfast.com>
Re: What a Crappy World <ljz@asfast.com>
Re: What a Crappy World <ljz@asfast.com>
Win32 OLE question <ecread@interaccess.com>
Win32: UDP Client/Server Socket Problem under NT4 (Troy Denkinger)
Digest Administrivia (Last modified: 8 Mar 97) (Perl-Users-Digest Admin)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Thu, 25 Jun 1998 21:11:20 -0500
From: fl_aggie@thepentagon.com (I R A Aggie)
Subject: Re: What a Crappy World
Message-Id: <fl_aggie-2506982111200001@aggie.coaps.fsu.edu>
In article <359299c1.1437131@news.tc.umn.edu>, ames0009@tc.umn.edu (T.
Ames) wrote:
+ On 25 Jun 1998 08:40:21 GMT, abigail@fnx.com (Abigail) wrote:
+
+
+ >
+ >You're a troll.
+ >
+ >
+ >*plonk*
+ >>Abigail
+ >--
+ Funny how every time you disagree with someone you resort to name
+ calling.
Really? I do believe Abigail (and she's not the first to say it) is
on to something. Olga comes flying out of the blue -- I'd never seen
her about here before -- and posts a "y'all suck" and "I'm not singling
Tom C. out, but" and never named anyone else.
All rather trollish characteristics. It talks like a troll, it posts
like a troll. I don't need to put its head on a pike to know its a
troll...
+ Sorry, some of us don't want to sit at your feet, Euclid.
May I suggest killfiles?
James
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 25 Jun 1998 21:05:00 -0500
From: fl_aggie@thepentagon.com (I R A Aggie)
Subject: Re: What a Crappy World
Message-Id: <fl_aggie-2506982105000001@aggie.coaps.fsu.edu>
In article <359288E5.2469@NOSPAMselc.hull.ac.uk>, Fred Riley
<f.h.riley@NOSPAMselc.hull.ac.uk> wrote:
+ Tom Christiansen wrote:
+ > No one should be granted access to Usenet until they've
+ > read those periodic postings. Period. It's harsh, but
+ > it's proper.
+ Tough. Usenet's not under the control of you or anybody else, it's an
+ anarchy. Sad but true, eh?
Ummm...no.
James
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 25 Jun 1998 21:30:17 -0500
From: fl_aggie@thepentagon.com (I R A Aggie)
Subject: Re: What a Crappy World
Message-Id: <fl_aggie-2506982130170001@aggie.coaps.fsu.edu>
In article <35928804.38B@NOSPAMselc.hull.ac.uk>, Fred Riley
<f.h.riley@NOSPAMselc.hull.ac.uk> wrote:
+ I R A Aggie wrote:
+ >
+ > In article <35914AA9.1DFF@NOSPAMselc.hull.ac.uk>, Fred Riley
+ > <f.h.riley@NOSPAMselc.hull.ac.uk> wrote:
+ >
+ > + Stuart McDow wrote:
+ >
+ > + > "A basic understanding of the computer and its OS is assumed"
+ >
+ > + Uh-huh. And if you're not a Unix geek? If you're using Perl on Win95/NT?
+ >
+ > There are books available...
+ >
+ > + If you're a Unix novice?
+ >
+ > Again, there are books available. Most of them have indices. You do
+ > know how to use an index?
+
+ Happen as I do, lad. Do I get the drift of what you're saying to be "if
+ you want to use Perl learn Unix and use Unix/Linux"?
Nope, I believe that drift is coming from the kitchen...for instance,
let's pick on User X, who's never used unix before. She's heard about
this grep thing, knows its in perl, and actually knows how to go about
searching the perl docs. She does that, and comes across:
perldoc -f grep | pod2text
grep BLOCK LIST
grep EXPR,LIST
This is similar in spirit to, but not the same as, grep(1) and
its relatives.
'grep(1)' is a direct reference back to the UNIX man pages. If I'm reading
you right, you would sugest that the grep(1) man page be included in with
the perl doc set, yes?
Isn't that a bit extreme? _especially_ when those man pages can be found
served up piping hot as hypertext documents on the WWW? in books? bundled
with linux?
+ Yup, so if they're perverts using PCs (instead of a real OS) they have
+ to either ditch DOS/Windows and install Linux, or install Linux on a
+ separate partition. They then have to learn the arcane language of Unix,
Of which perl is a direct desendent. If you truely want to know perl,
you'll need to have more than a passing familiarity with unix...
+ Correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems to me that you just want people
+ who aren't Unix geeks to sod off out of this group and leave you experts
+ alone. Fine by me - I'm for the off and unsubscribing from this nest of
+ vipers,
No, don't! Just vote YES on the clp.moderated newsgroup. Most of us 'vipers'
will be quite happy to leave clp.misc wallow in newbieness and high-tail
it for the hills.
+ but I've got news for you, pal. IT might have been the exclusive
+ preserve of the technical priesthood five years ago, but now everyone
+ and their uncle's got a computer so us riff-raff are taking over and
+ there's sod-all you can do about it. Be seeing you.
I'd be frightened if I weren't rolling around on the floor laughing
uncontrollably.
James
------------------------------
Date: 26 Jun 1998 03:29:34 GMT
From: Eli the Bearded <*@qz.to>
Subject: Re: What a Crappy World
Message-Id: <eli$9806252326@qz.little-neck.ny.us>
Keywords: troll
In comp.lang.perl.misc, Kenner <kenner@DELETE.MExnet.com> wrote:
> It just seems so unfortunate that some people have to be so hateful in their
> responses to that effect. I feel that neither Tom Phoenix nor Tom
> Christiansen tolerate this baby-human behavior, but contrast their methods:
Tom P. is a clever perl script, a la Eliza. Read thirty of his posts
and look at the heavy redundancy. Humans are not that patient.
Elijah
------
which is not to say there is not also a human Tom P, he teaches for Stonehenge
------------------------------
Date: 25 Jun 1998 23:32:51 -0400
From: Lloyd Zusman <ljz@asfast.com>
Subject: Re: What a Crappy World
Message-Id: <ltbtrgalcs.fsf@asfast.com>
birgitt@my-dejanews.com writes:
> In article <ltra0e9kkx.fsf@asfast.com>,
> Lloyd Zusman <ljz@asfast.com> wrote:
> >
> > Randal Schwartz <merlyn@stonehenge.com> writes:
> >
> > [ ... ]
> >
> > > Newbies can get questions answered, plainly. They just need to do
> > > some homework first.
> > >
> > > How hard can THAT be?
> >
> > Not hard at all.
> >
> > And I would add that regulars can choose to refer "newbies" to the
> > FAQ and docs in a polite and respectful manner.
> >
> > How hard can THAT be?
> >
> > Given that many regulars are already polite in referring the "newbies"
> > to the docs, I can confidently answer this question in the same way as
> > above: Not hard at all.
> >
>
> Don't make it too hard on yourselves.
>
> When I tried to blame a 'stupid, bad' (mostly meaning a tough) teacher in
> my school as a child, my father used to reply:
>
> Be grateful if you have a nice teacher, be more grateful if you
> have a 'bad' one, they teach you how to handle life and grow up.
> End of story.
Sure. We learn a lot from our misfortunes, and we can be thankful for
what we learn from them. But the teacher is still clearly being
called "a 'bad' one", and is not being commended for whatever is 'bad'
about him or her.
> And for the record, I think, for a volunteer group of teachers we
> enjoy listening to, it is just a "Manna from Heaven" to be listening
> to so many different tongues.
I agree, as well. I respect and appreciate those who are sharing
their technical knowledge here, and my appreciation goes even further
towards those who have spent so much time writing such an excellent
set of FAQ's, docs, and modules ... and Perl itself.
I just don't consider the gratuitous insults that a few (not all by
any means) of these people give out to be contributions that are in
any way commensurate with their technical accomplishements, nor with
the fact that they are all adults. I'm separating the insulting
behavior from everything else wonderful that these people have
contributed and continue to contribute.
--
Lloyd Zusman ljz@asfast.com
perl -e '$n=170;for($d=2;($d*$d)<=$n;$d+=(1+($d%2))){for($t=0;($n%$d)==0;
$t++){$n=int($n/$d);}while($t-->0){push(@r,$d);}}if($n>1){push(@r,$n);}
$x=0;map{$x+=(($_>0)?(1<<log($_-0.5)/log(2.0)+1):1)}@r;print"$x\n"'
------------------------------
Date: 25 Jun 1998 23:23:24 -0400
From: Lloyd Zusman <ljz@asfast.com>
Subject: Re: What a Crappy World
Message-Id: <ltemwcalsj.fsf@asfast.com>
Andrew Johnson <ajohnson@gpu.srv.ualberta.ca> writes:
> Lloyd Zusman wrote:
>
> [ ... ]
>
> and now I'll clarify my problem with your analogy...again, more
> clearly:
>
> 1) person A can't read --- should person A attend and ask
> questions like "what's this word?" at a writer's workshop?
>
> 2) person B reads at a grade six level ... but desparately wants
> to be a writer --- He should really be signing on to
> alt.writers.misc to ask "I know I should use a metaphor at the
> beginning of of my story, but which metaphor?"
>
> In both cases, there is no point actually answering the
> question ... point them to somewhere they can perhaps
> learn from.
I agree.
> I know ... your position is to be polite --- I won't argue there,
> I also think that respect for others is a Good_Thing(tm) --- but,
> more often than not, people DO get a "polite" response like
> "You're question belongs elsewhere...it is not appropriate
> here...go read XXX..."
I have no objection to this at all. And I have been lax in applauding
those who do just that.
> [ ... ] But, some seem to consider such an answer
> rude and un-helpful ("why didn't you just answer the
> question or say nothing at all?!")
I'm not one who thinks it rude if someone doesn't answer a question,
or if someone simply suggests the FAQ and other docs ... although I
presume that there are some people out there who might feel this way.
> [ ... ]
>
> RTFM is a standard, and 'polite', answer to questions which are
> answered in the FM. --- Don't get me wrong... I don't think
> hurling insults is a good way to address neophyte questions, I
> just don't actually see much "hurling of insults" here... usually
> just terse RTFM's (often with pointers to which FM) which people
> seem to be insulted by (or seem to think insult was intended by).
I'm not writing about terse pointers to the FAQ. These don't bother
me, although I know that they bother certain other people.
> clpm is not the second grade --- good grief, I didn't know Perl
> at one point...but I didn't attempt to learn it by asking
> questions in a Perl discussion group.
But many people don't know it's not second grade until they come here
and find out. My main point is to encourage certain people here to
just let the "newbies" know respectfully and politely that they have
come to the wrong place ... without gratuitous insults. That's it.
I have no objection to people steering "newbies" to the FAQ's and the
docs. I never have. My objection has always concerned how this has
been done by certain people. That's it.
Some people here might think that this "politeness and respect" thing
that I keep ranting about is silly or unnecessary. But this happens
to be an issue with me that means something, and so I will keep
commenting on it here when I feel moved to do so.
And the future moderators are free to keep my "politeness and respect"
rants out of c.l.p.moderated, once it comes into existence (hope
springs eternal!).
> [ ... ]
>
> Sorry, I try not to be rude...but I will not spend any time teaching
> osteology students how to read and write --- I will tell them the
> remedial reading/writing class is two doors down on the left...
> if that's offensive to some (and it is, believe me)...tough!
There may be some people here who might want you to offer help
analogous to teaching reading and writing to osteology students ...
but I'm not one of them, and never have been.
> regards
> andrew
>
> (who thinks learning programming should come at least a wee bit
> later than the second grade --- *my* position, clarified).
--
Lloyd Zusman ljz@asfast.com
perl -e '$n=170;for($d=2;($d*$d)<=$n;$d+=(1+($d%2))){for($t=0;($n%$d)==0;
$t++){$n=int($n/$d);}while($t-->0){push(@r,$d);}}if($n>1){push(@r,$n);}
$x=0;map{$x+=(($_>0)?(1<<log($_-0.5)/log(2.0)+1):1)}@r;print"$x\n"'
------------------------------
Date: 25 Jun 1998 23:36:28 -0400
From: Lloyd Zusman <ljz@asfast.com>
Subject: Re: What a Crappy World
Message-Id: <lt90mkal6r.fsf@asfast.com>
fl_aggie@thepentagon.com (I R A Aggie) writes:
> In article <ltd8byd3rx.fsf@asfast.com>, Lloyd Zusman <ljz@asfast.com> wrote:
>
> [ ... ]
>
> + If you don't want to be a "teacher" here in c.l.p.misc, then don't do
> + it. But if you have chosen that role for yourself, then don't forget
> + that almost each "newbie" that shows up here is like a brand new
> + second-grade student.
>
> Then don't complain about my teaching style when I point them to the
> Fine Document Set. You aren't the schoolboard.
I don't. I never had any complaints about people simply steering
"newbies" to the FAQ's and docs. But even though I'm not the school
board, I will sometimes object if I happen to see an otherwise good
teacher sending someone to these resources with an uncalled for
insult.
--
Lloyd Zusman ljz@asfast.com
perl -e '$n=170;for($d=2;($d*$d)<=$n;$d+=(1+($d%2))){for($t=0;($n%$d)==0;
$t++){$n=int($n/$d);}while($t-->0){push(@r,$d);}}if($n>1){push(@r,$n);}
$x=0;map{$x+=(($_>0)?(1<<log($_-0.5)/log(2.0)+1):1)}@r;print"$x\n"'
------------------------------
Date: 25 Jun 1998 23:38:53 -0400
From: Lloyd Zusman <ljz@asfast.com>
Subject: Re: What a Crappy World
Message-Id: <lt67hoal2q.fsf@asfast.com>
gtc@panix.com (The Morph on the Other Side of the Mirror) writes:
> [ ... ]
>
> Which isn't to say that second graders aren't welcome here; but we
> won't insult their intelligence by lowering our standards for them.
... and as long as you don't insult them in any other way while you
politely send them to the docs and FAQ's, I and certain others here
will not object. I realize that there are some contributors here who
object even if all you are doing is politely steering people to these
resources ... but I am not one of these contributors.
--
Lloyd Zusman ljz@asfast.com
perl -e '$n=170;for($d=2;($d*$d)<=$n;$d+=(1+($d%2))){for($t=0;($n%$d)==0;
$t++){$n=int($n/$d);}while($t-->0){push(@r,$d);}}if($n>1){push(@r,$n);}
$x=0;map{$x+=(($_>0)?(1<<log($_-0.5)/log(2.0)+1):1)}@r;print"$x\n"'
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 25 Jun 1998 21:54:54 -0500
From: "Edward C. Read" <ecread@interaccess.com>
Subject: Win32 OLE question
Message-Id: <35930D7E.5CB355DD@interaccess.com>
I wrote a script that creates a small Microsoft Word document from Perl,
with code like:
use OLE;
$wdapp = CreateObject OLE "Word.Application.8" || die ...
$doc = $wdapp->Documents->Add();
...
I have so far been unable to access individual paragraphs that I've
successfully inserted. I can get a count of them via:
$paraCount = $doc->Paragraphs->Count;
but how do I retrieve the text of individual paragraphs in the
Paragraphs collection object? Thanks for suggestions.
-Ned
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 26 Jun 1998 03:05:32 GMT
From: troy@whadda.com (Troy Denkinger)
Subject: Win32: UDP Client/Server Socket Problem under NT4
Message-Id: <6mv369$kmi$1@hirame.wwa.com>
Any insights on this are greatly appreciated. I'm working
on a program that will use UDP for communications between a
client and a server. Just to make sure I have the
communications portion working, I've written the
communications routines as a client app and a server app and
I'll add the rest of the program once I know they can talk.
I've included the code below for reference.
The problem I'm encountering is that if I'm running the
client on an NT machine the client never receives the
Acknowledged string from the server and $! returns "Unknown
Error...." Running the server on NT or Win95 and trying to
access using the client on NT fails. However, if I try to
communicate using the client on Win95 I'm successful. The
"Testing" comments in the client code show it more
succinctly.
Obviously, I'm missing something about how sockets work on
NT, but I'm unsure of what it is.
An interesting test I want to make soon is to run the client
and server on my Linux box to see how that works. I suspect
it will work fine.
Thanks for your time.
Regards,
Troy Denkinger
---------- Begin Client Code ---------------
#!/perl/bin/perl -w
#
# Usage: udpclient.pl <server_ip> <server_port> <message>
#
# Testing:
#
# Client Server Status
# ------ ------ ------
# NT NT Fails
# NT Win95 Fails
# Win95 NT OK
# Win95 Win95 OK
use IO::Socket;
use strict;
# Declare and define our global variables
use vars qw($socket $server_ip $outbox $port $ipaddr $inbox
$length $port $timeout);
$length = 1024;
$timeout = 5;
$server_ip = shift;
$port = shift;
$outbox = "@ARGV";
# Open a filehandle to the socket
$socket = IO::Socket::INET->new(
Proto => 'udp',
PeerPort => $port,
PeerAddr => $server_ip)
or die "Creating socket: $!\n";
# Send the message up the socket
$socket->send($outbox)
or die "Send Failed: $!";
# Receive the server's response
$socket->recv($inbox, $length)
or die "Receive Failed: $!";
# Print the server's response
print "Server Responded: $inbox\n";
--------------- End Client Code ---------------
--------------- Begin Server Code ---------------
#!/perl/bin/perl -w
#
# Usage: udpserv.pl <port>
use strict;
use IO::Socket;
use vars qw($socket $inbox $length $port);
$length = 1024;
$port = $ARGV[0];
$socket = IO::Socket::INET->new(
LocalPort => $port,
Proto => 'udp')
or die "socket: $@";
print "UDP server listening on port $port\n";
# Get the incoming message,
#print it to the console and then
#send an ack to the client
while (1) {
$socket->recv($inbox, $length);
print "Client said: $inbox\n";
$socket->send("Acknowledged\n")
or die "Ack send failed!\n";
}
die "recv: $!";
--------------- End Server Code ---------------
------------------------------
Date: 8 Mar 97 21:33:47 GMT (Last modified)
From: Perl-Request@ruby.oce.orst.edu (Perl-Users-Digest Admin)
Subject: Digest Administrivia (Last modified: 8 Mar 97)
Message-Id: <null>
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------------------------------
End of Perl-Users Digest V8 Issue 2988
**************************************
