[9247] in Perl-Users-Digest
Perl-Users Digest, Issue: 2842 Volume: 8
daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (Perl-Users Digest)
Thu Jun 11 15:07:14 1998
Date: Thu, 11 Jun 98 12:00:35 -0700
From: Perl-Users Digest <Perl-Users-Request@ruby.OCE.ORST.EDU>
To: Perl-Users@ruby.OCE.ORST.EDU (Perl-Users Digest)
Perl-Users Digest Thu, 11 Jun 1998 Volume: 8 Number: 2842
Today's topics:
Re: [META] hypersensitivity (Michael J Gebis)
Re: [META] hypersensitivity (John Stanley)
Re: [META] hypersensitivity jimbo@soundimages.co.uk
Re: [META] hypersensitivity <tchrist@mox.perl.com>
Re: [META] hypersensitivity (Stuart McDow)
accept function (MLawson835)
Re: accessing a:\ <gnat@frii.com>
Re: Certified Perl Programmers (Chris Nandor)
Re: Certified Perl Programmers <jdporter@min.net>
Re: Certified Perl Programmers <gnat@frii.com>
Re: CFV: comp.lang.perl.moderated moderated (John Stanley)
Re: CFV: comp.lang.perl.moderated moderated (John Stanley)
Re: CFV: comp.lang.perl.moderated moderated (Mark-Jason Dominus)
Re: Command line substitution thru subdirectories <ljz@asfast.com>
Re: Command line substitution thru subdirectories (Chris Russo)
Re: Command line substitution thru subdirectories <tchrist@mox.perl.com>
Domino 4.6 on NT 4 -- what perl for CGI's? <dwhite@nist.gov>
Re: Errno <franzen@pmel.noaa.gov>
Re: Eval questions. <postmaster@castleamber.com>
Re: Eval questions. <postmaster@castleamber.com>
flock on Win32 <jouke@com-bat.nl>
Re: flock on Win32 <bowlin@sirius.com>
Re: Help with Perl CGI script <jbodine@internetpro.net>
Re: http protocol (Breeze Pecorino)
Digest Administrivia (Last modified: 8 Mar 97) (Perl-Users-Digest Admin)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: 11 Jun 1998 17:29:14 GMT
From: gebis@albrecht.ecn.purdue.edu (Michael J Gebis)
Subject: Re: [META] hypersensitivity
Message-Id: <6lp45a$mrq@mozo.cc.purdue.edu>
jimbo@soundimages.co.uk writes:
}as correct as one can be and still fail to educate. As I said at the
}bottom of my previous post, Tom P. is THE model. His tolerance, his
}patience AND his capacity to remain civil are superb.
Let me second this: Tom P. is destined for sainthood. Not everyone
can be like him, but everyone should try. The world would be a far
better place.
--
Mike Gebis gebis@ecn.purdue.edu mgebis@eternal.net
------------------------------
Date: 11 Jun 1998 17:39:32 GMT
From: stanley@skyking.OCE.ORST.EDU (John Stanley)
Subject: Re: [META] hypersensitivity
Message-Id: <6lp4ok$ssr$1@news.NERO.NET>
In article <6lopkh$ajj$6@info.uah.edu>, Greg Bacon <gbacon@cs.uah.edu> wrote:
>
>Have you stopped beating your wife?
Thanks for making up my mind about how I will vote. I had planned on
abstaining.
------------------------------
Date: 11 Jun 1998 19:13:44 +0100
From: jimbo@soundimages.co.uk
Subject: Re: [META] hypersensitivity
Message-Id: <un2bjolgn.fsf@JIMBOSNTSERVER.i-have-a-misconfigured-system-so-shoot-me>
smcdow@arlut.utexas.edu (Stuart McDow) writes:
> At the bottom line, it doesn't make sense to use a buggy and
> unreliable OS for mission critical applications.
Complete agreement.
>
> > So, *nix fans, face up to the facts, your approach and methodology
> > is not widespread, not well known and not well understood by the
> > largest population of users on the planet.
>
> Oh, please. It's a lot more widespread than you're willing to
> admit. As for the largest popluation on the planet, I think that this
> has more to do with excellent marketing, monopolistic practices, the
> dumbing-down of programming and computer usage in general, and the
> proliferation of hand-holding - than it does with technological merit.
Not arguing the point. I never claimed it was narrow-spread. But to
dismiss a particular class of user on the basis of the OS they know
and use, maybe because that's all they have ever known and used seems
skewed to me. Further, I was not commenting on approach and
methodology, only trying to highlight the gulf that exists to foster
an atmosphere of awareness which could lead to an atmosphere of
tolerance and understanding. The constant slagging off and carping and
acid indigestion inducing commentary is truly amazing.
> Let's not confuse popularity with desirability.
Agreed. I did not. I only pointed out that there is a tremendous user
base running Wintel. These users make up arguably the largest base of
users globally. These users also have a set of cultural behaviors that
vary dramtically from the *nix culture. They may also make up the
largest influx of posters to this group and because they have little
knowledge of the environment they are entering they are violating the
cultural norms that exist here.
They are indeed victims (or beneficiaries?) of marketing and
hand-holding. But, hey, that's consumerism. Or maybe it's
capitalism. Both? Neither? I'm flummoxed.
> > As was stated earlier in a related post, don't read and/or don't
> > respond if you don't like the platform and/or the methodology and/or
> > approach that such a platform embodies.
>
> Then let's not have complaints about the perl docs or perl itself
> being "unix centric". What's good for the goose...
Agreed. That wasn't my intent but, what the heck, I walked straight
into that one. Perl will always have a *nix heritage that runs through
to the core. Pun intended. That is inescapable. The 'unix centric'
observation may come from the obvious divide that seems to be the
greatest cause of angst and friction. Those with the greatest store of
Perl wisdom and knowledge come from *nix. Those with the greatest
exposure to marketing and hand-holding do not. How do we create an
experience that will meet the expectations and needs of both groups
without violating whatever each holds dear? Is that worth the effort?
Personally, I have never complained about the docs or Perl. I may have
been totally clueless and roamed aimlessly through page after page
both on-line and printed but perserverance lead to my deliverence. It
took me a while to get to grips with it all. The simple fact that
TIMTOWTDI has always meant I could figure out a solution to my
problem. Other than plastic surgery that is.
For the record, I believe Perl and its documentation ranks as high as
it is possible for software and documentation to rank, if there is
such a ranking. Completeness, usability, functionality, etc. I use
several commercial products and none have anywhere near the docs that
come without charge with Perl.
I still don't understand even a 2 digit percentage of any of
it. Perhaps one day I will be a member of the 10 percent
club. Probably not. What saddens me most about me is that Randal has
forgotten more than I will ever know. The gap is great. Perhaps the
end is nigh.
Jim Brewer
------------------------------
Date: 11 Jun 1998 18:37:59 GMT
From: Tom Christiansen <tchrist@mox.perl.com>
Subject: Re: [META] hypersensitivity
Message-Id: <6lp867$s25$1@csnews.cs.colorado.edu>
[courtesy cc of this posting sent to cited author via email]
In comp.lang.perl.misc, jimbo@soundimages.co.uk writes:
:I never claimed it was narrow-spread. But to
:dismiss a particular class of user on the basis of the OS they know
:and use, maybe because that's all they have ever known and used seems
:skewed to me.
The problem, in a nutshell, is that whenever we point out a simple and
obvious--sometimes even elegant--solution, one which inevitably involves
gluing together other tools (which, I must point out, was what Perl
*designed* for), we get back nothing but flames from those who cannot
help themselves. We are effectively told, "I'm a Prisoner of $Bill.
I have no tools. You cannot ask me to use tools. Tools are beyond me.
You must send me the complete and total integrated solution to what
I asked with all those wheels re-invented from the ground up in Perl.
You aren't allowed to use the toolbox. Work harder for me. I asked,
so gimme."
That's just not going to give us any warm feelings toward the
user begging for help, you know?
--tom
--
If you consistently take an antagonistic approach, however, people are
going to start thinking you're from New York. :-)
--Larry Wall to Dan Bernstein in <10187@jpl-devvax.JPL.NASA.GOV>
------------------------------
Date: 11 Jun 1998 18:38:45 GMT
From: smcdow@arlut.utexas.edu (Stuart McDow)
Subject: Re: [META] hypersensitivity
Message-Id: <6lp87l$jra$1@ns1.arlut.utexas.edu>
jimbo@soundimages.co.uk writes:
>
> How do we create an experience that will meet the expectations and
> needs of both groups without violating whatever each holds dear? Is
> that worth the effort?
These are excellent questions. The future of computing in microcosm.
Regards,
--
Stuart McDow Applied Research Laboratories
smcdow@arlut.utexas.edu The University of Texas at Austin
"Look for beauty in roughness, unpolishedness"
------------------------------
Date: 11 Jun 1998 17:44:11 GMT
From: mlawson835@aol.com (MLawson835)
Subject: accept function
Message-Id: <1998061117441100.NAA01216@ladder03.news.aol.com>
I'm running perl5 on a Win95 machine. When a script accepts a socket
connection, is execution subsequent to that point considered a separate
(child?) process? Are subsequent socket connections (assuming listen's
QUEUESIZE argument is greater than 1) different processes? I can't figure out
how scoping for the filehandles works. I've looked through FAQ's and manpages,
and can't seem to find anything related to this. Any help would be greatly
appreciated.
Mike Lawson
------------------------------
Date: 11 Jun 1998 12:27:34 -0600
From: Nathan Torkington <gnat@frii.com>
Subject: Re: accessing a:\
Message-Id: <5q67i77q09.fsf@prometheus.frii.com>
John Porter <jdporter@min.net> writes:
> Sure; but if Larry has his way, '||' will be deprecated soon enough.
> At least to hear Tom tell it.
Hmm, I dunno about that. Realize, of course, that you, me, and Tom
are all speculating on Larry's state of mind. Unless you've got his
brain in a vat and have fully mapped it (thus causing mass flashbacks
to first-year philosophy courses), none of us is authoritative (except
for Larry. Possibly. I skipped that class.).
My belief and desire is that things become deprecated when they are
something fervently wished to die, but which must not die because of
the Holy Grail of Perl Backward Compatibility. I don't believe flow-
control "||" is in this category because we don't wish it would die.
If you know what you're doing, "||" makes sense and has a role.
Larry's point is simply that "or" is less often wrong than "||" when
it comes to flow control like:
open A, "| 2another program" or die;
Tom's point is that "||" is a deliciously visual marker, because you
can say:
open(A, "|2another program") || die;
$contents = suck_the_file(A) || die;
close(A) || die;
$tree = parse($contents) || die;
ringbark($tree) || die;
pulp($tree) || die;
The row of || looks like a fence, suggesting delineation, separation,
the eternal disharmony between mind and body, free will and divine
intervention, yin and yang if you will. Aesthetically, this is a far
superior solution to the visually muted "or", whose subdued tones
infuse the work with a blander, more gray tone, reminiscent of Andrew
Lloyd Webber on 'ludes.
Anyway, I think (and hope) that deprecation is overkill here. If our
Creator were to eject another Commandment from Mt nView, then I think
this Believer would have to side with the Infidel Dogs and say that
the Creator was a busybody and should butt out of human affairs like
a good omnipotent being.
(rereads what he just wrote)
Man, I talk some crap, don't I? :-)
Nat
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 11 Jun 1998 17:13:14 GMT
From: pudge@pobox.com (Chris Nandor)
Subject: Re: Certified Perl Programmers
Message-Id: <pudge-1106981310290001@dynamic174.ply.adelphia.net>
In article <m3wwaptgbv.fsf@mail.biol.sc.edu>, Dean Pentcheff
<dean@mail.biol.sc.edu> wrote:
# mjd@op.net (Mark-Jason Dominus) writes:
# > In article <EuAxH7.9p4@news.boeing.com>,
# > Charles DeRykus <ced@bcstec.ca.boeing.com> wrote:
# > >Perhaps though the Perl Institute could issue a certificate.
# > ...
# > For my scheme to work, it helps to have as many competing certifynig
# > authorities as possible.
#
# Collect 'em, save 'em, get the whole set! Whee! I like this...
#
# [I'm a little disturbed, though, that no one in this thread has flamed
# another poster. Aren't we overdue for that?]
F*** you. Hitler.
--
Chris Nandor mailto:pudge@pobox.com http://pudge.net/
%PGPKey = ('B76E72AD', [1024, '0824090B CE73CA10 1FF77F13 8180B6B6'])
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 11 Jun 1998 17:53:54 GMT
From: John Porter <jdporter@min.net>
Subject: Re: Certified Perl Programmers
Message-Id: <35801B29.35F5@min.net>
Tom Harrington wrote:
>
> Since when does that make a difference in hiring?
>
> "Required skills: ... at least 5 years experience with Java ...."
There was this one, not too long ago:
"Required: 5 years experience with Win95."
(Maybe they were specifically looking for ex-Microsoft guys...)
John Porter
------------------------------
Date: 11 Jun 1998 12:47:36 -0600
From: Nathan Torkington <gnat@frii.com>
Subject: Re: Certified Perl Programmers
Message-Id: <5q4sxr7p2v.fsf@prometheus.frii.com>
joel@wmi0.wmi.com (Joel Coltoff) writes:
> I think we need to be more formal about this. We find a perl goddess
> and on a periodic basis she taps the qualified recipients on each shoulder
Can't we have a vengeful goddess? One who demands a weekly sacrifice
of Python [programmers] and who issues forth firey wrath on any
heathen swine who use Tcl. "Sacrified to the bloody altar of Perl"
has such a ring to it. She'd have to wear a lot of leather, of course.
Oh yes. Lots of leather.
Even with leather, this isn't as good as a god or goddess that assumes
an earthly form that the mortal followers must then copulate with, but
something tells me that Larry (resident Perl cult leader--mental note:
have koolaid in the punch bowl at the Conference) would draw the line
well before such a deity.
There's always Microsoft structure where The Church takes a tithe
every year (in the form of bugfixes masquerading as a new release) and
satisfies the faithful with smoke and mirrors (incense and silver
chalices) while it soils their youth behind the altar.
Or we could abandon religion altogether. Go the communist route--ban
religious metaphors, and start talking about Liberation 5.005 of The
People's Glorious Revolutionary Tool.
But that's no fun. Think of all the religious quotes we could adapt
for Perl:
"Perl is an opium of the people."
-- Karl Marx, 'A Contribution to the Critique of Hegel's Philosophy
of Right' (1843-4)
"All good moral philosophy is but an handmaid to Perl."
-- Francis Bacon, 'The Advancement of Learning' (1605)
"Art and Perl are, then, two roads by which men escape from
circumstance to ecstasy. Between aesthetic and Perlian rapture there
is a family alliance. Art and Perl are means to similar states of
mind."
-- Clive Bell, 'Art' (1914)
"Prisons are built with stones of Law, brothels with bricks of Perl."
-- William Blake, 'The Marriage of Heaven and Hell' (1790-3)
"Perl programs are kept alive by heresies, which are really sudden
explosions of faith. Java programs do not produce them."
-- Gerald Brenan, 'Thoughts in a Dry Season' (1978)
"Persecution is a bad and indirect way to plant Perl."
-- Sir Thomas Browne, 'Religio Medici' (1643)
Nat
------------------------------
Date: 11 Jun 1998 17:29:26 GMT
From: stanley@skyking.OCE.ORST.EDU (John Stanley)
Subject: Re: CFV: comp.lang.perl.moderated moderated
Message-Id: <6lp45m$sm1$1@news.NERO.NET>
In article <pudge-1106980745230001@dynamic174.ply.adelphia.net>,
Chris Nandor <pudge@pobox.com> wrote:
>By the charter, no, that is not guaranteed. It is not disallowed,
>either. But it probably will not happen; votes are a complicated
>procedure on Usenet.
Yes, actually, it is dissallowed. The word on the street is that David
Lawrence will not accept an RFD for the removal of a moderator.
># Who are the (self-appointed, after all) members of the moderation panel,
># anyway?
>
>Read the RFD. Check DejaNews, look for the 2d RFD posted in May. And not
>self-appointed; if you were interested, you could have volunteered
>yourself or asked for consideration of someone else. Apparently, you did
>not.
Yes, and when you are in DejaNews, you might wander through the
perl.porters-gw archive. That is where the request for volunteers was
made. If you weren't on that mailing list/newsgroup, you didn't know
there was a chance to volunteer, until the RFD with the list of proposed
moderators was posted.
>Besides, a "rogue moderator" would have much more to fear from his fellow
>moderators than a vote. Fellow moderators would take swift and decisive
>action.
Maybe they will hire a murderous munger to take care of the rogue?
------------------------------
Date: 11 Jun 1998 17:36:21 GMT
From: stanley@skyking.OCE.ORST.EDU (John Stanley)
Subject: Re: CFV: comp.lang.perl.moderated moderated
Message-Id: <6lp4il$ss1$1@news.NERO.NET>
In article <6lop9h$ajj$5@info.uah.edu>, Greg Bacon <gbacon@cs.uah.edu> wrote:
>In article <6loasp$3ol$2@bsdti6.sdm.de>,
> Steffen Beyer <sb@sdm.de> writes:
>: In other words, the people frequenting this newsgroup will have *NO*
>: democratic means of controlling the moderation panel.
>
>There will be a public mailing list for people interested in the group's
>policies. Moderators are appointed and removed by a two-thirds majority
>vote.
Of the moderation panel. Not the readership.
------------------------------
Date: 11 Jun 1998 13:41:10 -0400
From: mjd@op.net (Mark-Jason Dominus)
Subject: Re: CFV: comp.lang.perl.moderated moderated
Message-Id: <6lp4rm$1gl$1@monet.op.net>
In article <6loasp$3ol$2@bsdti6.sdm.de>,
Steffen Beyer <sb@engelschall.com> wrote:
>> The moderation panel will always consist of at least six
>> members. New moderators may be appointed, and old ones removed,
>> by a two-thirds majority vote of the moderation panel.
>
>In other words, the people frequenting this newsgroup will have *NO*
>democratic means of controlling the moderation panel.
The original RFD put the power to appoint and remove moderators in a
separate governing body, specifically the board of the Perl Institute.
Lots of people objected to this in the discussion phase, and so we
changed it to what you see now.
There was some discussion of this point in news.groups recently, in
connection with some other group. The experienced news.groups types
seemed to be of the opinion that this was a bad idea, for several
reasons. People were worried that a huge amount of time and energy
would be taken up by politics.
>(E.g., if a person from the moderation panel (or the moderation panel as
>a whole) made arbitrary decisions, people frequenting the newsgroup would
>have no means to remove that person from the panel,
That is not quite true. If a person from the moderation panel made
arbitrary decisions, you could complain to the other moderators. This
is a better situation than in many moderated groups, such as those
which have only one moderator.
>Who are the (self-appointed, after all) members of the moderation panel,
>anyway?
Everyone who volunteered in the discussion period is on the list.
>I am greatly in favour of a moderated Perl newsgroup (I have been waiting
>for it unpatiently for years), but I cannot vote in favour of it as long
>as there is not the slightest hint of at least some democratic control.
Consider comp.lang.perl.announce. Randal's the king there. If you
don't like how he moderates the group, what can you do? Nothing; you
don't even have the fallback of appealing to the other moderators.
But it isn't a problem. Moderated groups have been around a long
time. They have worked work well without any `democratic control'.
So I'm sorry that you think that this is important, and that you're
going to vote no because of it. But in practice it hasn't turned out
to be very important, and the other people who participated in the
discussion about the group before the vote specifically rejected a
provision like the one you want.
I'm directing followups to news.groups.
------------------------------
Date: 11 Jun 1998 02:39:02 -0400
From: Lloyd Zusman <ljz@asfast.com>
Subject: Re: Command line substitution thru subdirectories
Message-Id: <ltbts0cuih.fsf@asfast.com>
Tom Christiansen <tchrist@mox.perl.com> writes:
> [ ... ]
>
> Why don't the C++ groups ever get questions like, "How do
> use C++ on all the files in all my directories recursively?"
>
> Why don't the shell groups ever get questions like, "How do
> use the shell on all the files in all my directories recursively?"
>
> Why don't the Fortran groups ever get questions like, "How do
> use Fortran on all the files in all my directories recursively?"
>
> So why do we? Are we special? Who are we attracting? Is it
> time to change the honey?
Do you mean, "Is it time we stopped being so nice and polite and
helpful to all the 'newbies' that show up?" :)
But seriously, here are my thoughts on these questions you raised:
Perl is such a useful, powerful tool, and you folks did such a good
job designing it, documenting it, creating several hundred excellent
modules to go with it, and spreading the word about it, that lots and
lots of people want to use it, and they keep showing up here asking
for help. In other words, I believe that the main reason that so many
such users come here is because you folks have done a much better job
of creating something useful and usable than the C++, shell, and
Fortran creators did.
And because of Perl's well-deserved reputation and its resultant
popularity, this large group of people who are trying their hands at
Perl happen to cover the entire spectrum of education levels,
programming experience, etc. And hence, it's inevitable that a
significant number of people who show up here will be naive or
inexperienced.
Many here really resent these inexperienced people, but there's
something about this reaction which still puzzles me: did you folks
really expect to do such a fantastic job with Perl and not attract
such a large number of people who are trying to learn and understand
it?
Did you really expect that you could create something wonderful and
still remain more or less unnoticed in the world?
And unfortuntely, some of you seem to be making things worse for
yourselves by letting these naive questions and FAQ's bother you
... why not just accept that these 'newbies' and their questions are
one of the inevitable consequences of your success with Perl, instead
of getting so bent out of shape about it?
I mean, if you don't want to answer the FAQ's, then don't. If you
don't want to even *see* the FAQ's, then go to clp.moderated (soon).
But in either case, I believe that many of you will be happier if you
relax more about this, and at least let this large influx of naive
questions give you some personal pleasure in knowing what a good job
you've done with Perl.
--
Lloyd Zusman ljz@asfast.com
perl -e '$n=170;for($d=2;($d*$d)<=$n;$d+=(1+($d%2))){for($t=0;($n%$d)==0;
$t++){$n=int($n/$d);}while($t-->0){push(@r,$d);}}if($n>1){push(@r,$n);}
$x=0;map{$x+=(($_>0)?(1<<log($_-0.5)/log(2.0)+1):1)}@r;print"$x\n"'
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 11 Jun 1998 11:39:19 -0700
From: news@russo.org (Chris Russo)
Subject: Re: Command line substitution thru subdirectories
Message-Id: <news-1106981139200001@buzz.hq.alink.net>
In article <6lm12o$6m9$1@csnews.cs.colorado.edu>, tchrist@mox.perl.com
(Tom Christiansen) wrote:
>If you don't have a toolbox, you have a problem. You can't nearly
>as productive. Since you have nothing but a hammer, you start random
>poundings, even on things that don't want to be pounded, which leaves
>you screwed.
Yikes. Speaking of using a hammer to administer random poundings...
As the self-appointed referee of clpm, I have to blow the whistle on you
and Abigail.
The Call: Failure to fully read the question, leading to providing an
OS-based solution, rather than a perl-based one. Also, I'm calling
unnecessary roughness toward that other referee guy who did no more than
point out that the question was not "reasonably" answered.
The Penalty: Post to clpm, "Oops, my bad. I didn't fully read the question."
Naturally, you can ignore me or do something nastier. The only thing that
will do is sacrifice some respect I have for someone whom I've normally
supported.
Best Regards,
Chris Russo
--
Chris Russo
news@russo.org
http://www.russo.org
------------------------------
Date: 11 Jun 1998 18:48:51 GMT
From: Tom Christiansen <tchrist@mox.perl.com>
Subject: Re: Command line substitution thru subdirectories
Message-Id: <6lp8qj$s25$2@csnews.cs.colorado.edu>
[courtesy cc of this posting sent to cited author via email]
In comp.lang.perl.misc,
news@russo.org (Chris Russo) writes:
:As the self-appointed referee of clpm, I have to blow the whistle on you
:and Abigail.
:
:The Call: Failure to fully read the question,
That's correct. I in fact did not read the part where he
said he was a Prisoner of $Bill.
--tom
--
Mister Catbert, the company is trying to force me to use a different kind
of computer. You're the human resources directory. what are you doing
to sop this religious persecution?! What every happened to "Diversity"??
The longer you verk here, diverse it gets. next. --Scott Adams, "Dilbert"
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 11 Jun 1998 14:37:29 -0400
From: Douglas White <dwhite@nist.gov>
Subject: Domino 4.6 on NT 4 -- what perl for CGI's?
Message-Id: <358023E9.CE3B2DF1@nist.gov>
I'm running Domino 4.6 on NT4, and some folks want some perl CGIs.
Any suggestions about where I should pick up perl for NT? Anyone done
this
and have any warnings they'd like to pass on?
TIA - Doug dwhite@nist.gov
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 11 Jun 1998 09:45:30 -0700
From: Nathan Franzen <franzen@pmel.noaa.gov>
Subject: Re: Errno
Message-Id: <Pine.SOL.3.96.980611093247.16918A-100000@corona.pmel.noaa.gov>
> HtmlPlace.Com (htmlmail@htmlplace.com) requested
> ++ Is there any documentation anywhere that lists possible error codes?
and On 10 Jun 1998, Abigail replied:
> perl -we 'print "${\($! = 2)}\n"'
There's definitely some interesting perl behavior in here! As a
relatively new perl user I often experiment with <perl -e> to see what I
get, and this line of Abigail's was rewarding. Perhap others new to
perl would want to take a look at it as well.
It seems that $! has radically different string and numeric values. It
isn't really surprising that such a special variable has unusual behavior.
Take a look at this, for instance (I had to backslash the "!" because my
shell was overinterpreting it -- Abigail's "${\$!}" works also -- I just
happened not to write it that way):
perl -we 'for(1..10){$!=$_;printf "%d %s \n", $\!, $\!}'
Which one is the "value" of $! ? ->Don't answer that.
-Nathan
------------------------------
Date: 11 Jun 1998 17:12:17 GMT
From: "John Bokma" <postmaster@castleamber.com>
Subject: Re: Eval questions.
Message-Id: <01bd955c$6c1e5920$02521e0a@tschai>
Charles DeRykus <ced@bcstec.ca.boeing.com> wrote in article
<EuCy0D.BAw@news.boeing.com>...
> In article <01bd94a7$c98dbac0$02521e0a@tschai>,
> John Bokma <john@castleamber.com> wrote:
> >
> >
> >Charles DeRykus <ced@bcstec.ca.boeing.com> wrote in article
> ><EuAwrI.8KG@news.boeing.com>...
> >> In article <01bd93d1$ac777600$02521e0a@tschai>,
> >> John Bokma <john@castleamber.com> wrote:
> >> > Hi,
> >> >
> >> > I want to use a tekstfile to define macro's and expand macro's
> >> > based on Perl.
> >> >
> >> > Example:
> >> >
> >> > \
> >> > sub somesub ($)
> >> > {
> >> > my ($var) = shift;
> >> >
> >> > return $var;
> >> > }
> >> >
> >> > "";
> >> > \
> >> >
> >> > \somesub("Expand me")\
> >> >
> >> > the \somesub("Expand me")\ is replaced by
> >> > Expand me.
> >> >
> >> > I have this already working using:
> >> >
> >> > s/\\([^\\]+\\/ eval $1 ./ meg;
> >> >
> >>
> >> Hm, perl contradicts you:
> >
> >Very funny (not). I typed it from memory, and yes
> >I forgot a closing ), and there is an accidental . before
> >the final /. (My email program doesn't
> >do syntax checking ).
> >
> >But after clearing this up, have you anything to
> >say that's on topic?
> >
>
> I beg to differ. Syntax errors are definitely on topic -
> especially if there's more than one. Or, do you presume
> that someone seeing your post has nothing better to do
> with his time and energy than make multiple passes to
> unravel what you're trying to do...
I've only added the snippets to make clear what I mean.
They are not a program and hence can't be used the way
you tried it. To err is human. Besides, the question isn't
about the code not working, it is about how I can add
functionality. With regarding to your waste of time and
energy, it seems you have too much time and energy,
but are not capable of answering my question. So stay
out of this thread.
John
--
------------------------------------------------------------------
C A S T L E A M B E R Software Development (Java/Perl/C/CGI)
http://www.castleamber.com/ john@castleamber.com
NEW: http://www.binaries.org/ Guide to Program Binaries & Pictures
------------------------------
Date: 11 Jun 1998 17:14:38 GMT
From: "John Bokma" <postmaster@castleamber.com>
Subject: Re: Eval questions.
Message-Id: <01bd955c$c0740240$02521e0a@tschai>
Kevin Reid <kpreid@ibm.net> wrote in article
<1dad5yb.xiyxyp17dx0juN@slip166-72-108-72.ny.us.ibm.net>...
> John Bokma <postmaster@castleamber.com> wrote:
>
<snip>
> Try this:
>
> s/\\([^\\]+)\\/my $temp = eval $1; $@ ? $@ : $temp/meg;
I will. I've tried several other tricks (like enclosing everything
with eval { .... };). But this one "feels" good.
Thanks,
John
--
------------------------------------------------------------------
C A S T L E A M B E R Software Development (Java/Perl/C/CGI)
http://www.castleamber.com/ john@castleamber.com
NEW: http://www.binaries.org/ Guide to Program Binaries & Pictures
------------------------------
Date: 11 Jun 1998 18:21:58 GMT
From: Jouke Visser <jouke@com-bat.nl>
Subject: flock on Win32
Message-Id: <35801947.483E626A@com-bat.nl>
Hi,
I noticed that the Win32 port of Perl does NOT support flock(). Does anyone know:
1. *Why* it is not supported?
2. Why a script dies when I *do* call flock(). Shouldn't it just warn me that it is not supported, and then move on?
The reason why I ask this is because I develop and test my scripts on a Win95 machine, and then run it on a production Linux machine. At this moment I have either got to check the OS and flock() if it's not Win95, or comment out the flock() while in
testing stage.
I find this *very* annoying. I thought Perl was portable. Well, it is, but to a certain extent.
Jouke Visser
--
Com_bat Intra- en Internet
------------------------------------
tel 050 5493930
fax 050 5290924
gsm 06 55330177
Com_bat http://www.com-bat.nl
Hit-It http://www.com-bat.nl/hit-it
------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 11 Jun 1998 11:44:31 -0700
From: Jim Bowlin <bowlin@sirius.com>
To: Jouke Visser <jouke@com-bat.nl>
Subject: Re: flock on Win32
Message-Id: <3580258F.95201E8B@sirius.com>
Jouke Visser wrote:
>
> Hi,
>
> I noticed that the Win32 port of Perl does NOT support flock(). Does
> anyone know:
> 1. *Why* it is not supported?
> 2. Why a script dies when I *do* call flock(). Shouldn't it just warn
> me that it is not supported, and then move on?
1) flock() is supported by the Win32 port of Perl. It works under NT
but not Win95. I don't know the *why* of this. It could be that if
you use the NTFS instead of the FAT file system that flock() will
work for you.
2) You can get the behavior you desire (a warning instead of a die)
by wrapping the offending block of code inside an eval and then
checking the $@ variable for an error message. Here is an example
using the alarm() function (which is not supported on Win32).
eval {
print "trying alarm() ...\n";
alarm(100);
print "alarm successful\n";
};
$@ and print STDERR "$@\n";
print "continuing with program\n";
HTH -- Jim Bowlin
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 11 Jun 1998 17:05:08 GMT
From: Jason Bodine <jbodine@internetpro.net>
Subject: Re: Help with Perl CGI script
Message-Id: <3580106D.42F@internetpro.net>
Hi Tom:
Guess I should be a little more specific. LOL. I have no problem making
my script send mail using the good old-fashioned To: and From: headers.
What I *do* have a problem with is writing a program that can utilize
the Cc: and Bcc: headers as well.
Jason :)
Tom Phoenix wrote:
>
> On Thu, 11 Jun 1998, Jason Bodine wrote:
>
> > Subject: Help with Perl CGI script
>
> Please check out this helpful information on choosing good subject
> lines. It will be a big help to you in making it more likely that your
> requests will be answered.
>
> http://www.perl.com/CPAN/authors/Dean_Roehrich/subjects.post
>
> > Can someone please tell me what perl code to use that will allow a
> > script to CC: and BCC: copies of form data?
>
> It sounds as if you want to send mail from your Perl script. There is
> something in section nine of the FAQ about this. Hope this helps!
>
> --
> Tom Phoenix Perl Training and Hacking Esperanto
> Randal Schwartz Case: http://www.rahul.net/jeffrey/ovs/
------------------------------
Date: 11 Jun 1998 18:05:14 GMT
From: bpecorin@mailer.fsu.edu (Breeze Pecorino)
Subject: Re: http protocol
Message-Id: <6lp68q$j4r$1@news.fsu.edu>
Barry Margolin (barmar@bbnplanet.com) wrote:
: This is usually just called "http" in /etc/services files. And you
: shouldn't add www-http to inetd.conf unless you're running an HTTP server
: on your machine and it's designed to be run from inetd.
I have tried httpd, http, and www-http. None of them work.
: Could you be more specific about how it's failing? /etc/services is used
: by getservbyname(), just to translate the numeric service name to a port
: number (e.g. http -> 80). What error message is in "$!"?
It fails in the connect line. And the error = Cannot assign requested address
Here's how I use it.
code snipet
--------------------------------------
$proto = getprotobyname('tcp');
socket(S, AF_INET, SOCK_STREAM, $proto) || die "socket: $!";
($name, $aliases, $port, $proto ) = getservbyname( "www-http", 'tcp' );
($name, $aliases, $type, $len, $thisaddr) = gethostbyname( $hostname );
($name, $aliases, $type, $len, $thataddr) = gethostbyname( $them );
$this = pack($sockaddr, AF_INET, 0, $thisaddr );
$that = pack($sockaddr, AF_INET, "http", $thataddr );
bind(S, $this) || die "bind: $!";
connect(S, $that) || die "connect: $!";
----------------------------------------
: --
: Barry Margolin, barmar@bbnplanet.com
: GTE Internetworking, Powered by BBN, Cambridge, MA
: *** DON'T SEND TECHNICAL QUESTIONS DIRECTLY TO ME, post them to newsgroups.
--
Breeze Pecorino
bpecorin@acns.fsu.edu
Acedemic Computing & Network Services
Florida State University
------------------------------
Date: 8 Mar 97 21:33:47 GMT (Last modified)
From: Perl-Request@ruby.oce.orst.edu (Perl-Users-Digest Admin)
Subject: Digest Administrivia (Last modified: 8 Mar 97)
Message-Id: <null>
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End of Perl-Users Digest V8 Issue 2842
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