[9143] in Perl-Users-Digest
Perl-Users Digest, Issue: 2761 Volume: 8
daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (Perl-Users Digest)
Fri May 29 15:07:18 1998
Date: Fri, 29 May 98 12:00:24 -0700
From: Perl-Users Digest <Perl-Users-Request@ruby.OCE.ORST.EDU>
To: Perl-Users@ruby.OCE.ORST.EDU (Perl-Users Digest)
Perl-Users Digest Fri, 29 May 1998 Volume: 8 Number: 2761
Today's topics:
Re: A new comer to PERL <brianm@kodak.com>
Re: Advanced Perl Programming Book (Tad McClellan)
Re: Advanced Perl Programming Book 6xtippet@CyberJunkie.com
Re: children processes (Charles DeRykus)
Re: Don't Know how to decrypt using PERL (brian d foy)
Re: Don't Know how to decrypt using PERL <lr@hpl.hp.com>
Re: Don't Know how to decrypt using PERL <lr@hpl.hp.com>
Re: Eeek, How do I use HTML::Parser? (brian d foy)
Re: HELP!!!!!! <brianm@kodak.com>
Re: How do I pass multiple parameters to a cgi script f <aqumsieh@matrox.com>
Re: Killing a thread (was: Re: Stop Changing Subject Li (Greg Andrews)
Re: Modules in Perl <JKRY3025@comenius.ms.mff.cuni.cz>
Q: How to read AND write to a programm? <captain@NOSPAM.pirate.de>
Re: RegEx for breaking up HTML <two_step@bigfoot.com>
Returning from a signal handler? <bjs@iti-oh.com>
Seeking HTML::FormatPS module (Michael Murphy)
Re: simple question (Bbirthisel)
Re: Statistics for comp.lang.perl.misc (Greg Bacon)
Re: Statistics for comp.lang.perl.misc (Greg Bacon)
Re: Statistics for comp.lang.perl.misc (Michael J Gebis)
Re: Statistics for comp.lang.perl.misc (Chris Nandor)
Re: Tom Christiansen attacks the free software communit <evan@garrett.hpl.hp.com>
Digest Administrivia (Last modified: 8 Mar 97) (Perl-Users-Digest Admin)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Fri, 29 May 1998 13:21:42 -0400
From: Brian Mathis <brianm@kodak.com>
To: npetty@mitre.org
Subject: Re: A new comer to PERL
Message-Id: <356EEEA6.D3A4DE90@kodak.com>
[posted and emailed]
Ellen Cohn wrote:
>
> I am working for the Mitre Corporation in Bedford, Ma. I was asked to
> setup a web-database application. I have been thinking SQL Server would
> be a good place to start but I cannot find any resources on connecting
> to a database from within a PERL script. I understand that to many this
> may seem easy but I am a new comer to the PERL language. Please respond
> to < npetty@mitre.org >. I will check in later.........
>
> Mustafa
If you go to this URL:
http://reference.perl.com/query.cgi?database
you will find a wealth of information on the subject. There are modules
available on CPAN
(http://www.perl.com/CPAN-local/) that let you connect to almost any database
under the sun.
Brian Mathis
--
$_="
,.,,,.,,.,,.,,,,..,,,,,,,,.,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,.,,,,,,,..,..,,.,,,,,,,,,
";s/\s//gs; tr/,./05/; @a=split(//); $_=<DATA>; tr/~`'"^/0-4/;map{$o.=
$a[$i]+$_;$i++} split(//); map{$o[++$#o]=substr($o,$j,3);$j+=3}@a;map{
print chr($_)}@o; __DATA__ # Brian Mathis, Just another perl hacker.
~'^``'``~```~"'~^'``~```````~^`~```^~"'``'`~```^`~"~"'`~^~^'~^^`~'`~```^~`~
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 29 May 1998 08:51:36 -0500
From: tadmc@flash.net (Tad McClellan)
Subject: Re: Advanced Perl Programming Book
Message-Id: <8hemk6.tmi.ln@localhost>
Craig Berry (cberry@cinenet.net) wrote:
: Andrew Johnson (ajohnson@gpu.srv.ualberta.ca) wrote:
: : Christopher R. Redinger wrote:
: : So, the animal on APP is a leopard or panther, but not a puma.
: :
: : ! Oh yeah, and shouldn't this be added to the FAQ? ;)
: :
: : it doesn't seem to be a very 'frequent' question.
: No, no, he means the 'Feline Ambiguity Questions' list.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Not to be confused with the UUOC list... ;-)
So many lists, so little time.
--
Tad McClellan SGML Consulting
tadmc@metronet.com Perl programming
Fort Worth, Texas
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 29 May 1998 17:41:05 GMT
From: 6xtippet@CyberJunkie.com
Subject: Re: Advanced Perl Programming Book
Message-Id: <356ef400.96954212@news.usaor.net>
On 28 May 1998 10:45:00 -0700, coyotl@primenet.com (Glen G. Walker)
wrote:
>I would be interested in hearing what people think of the "Mouse Book"
>(CGI Programming). As a complete PERL beginner, I am finding it a big
>help, but everybody else I talk to thinks that it is useless.
I wouldn't say it was useless. It is the book that I used to learn
about the Common Gateway Interface. It was a good book for learning
the fundamentals of CGI programming. Its coverage is not
comprehensive and I can "imagine" a better book.
Lee
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 29 May 1998 17:59:09 GMT
From: ced@bcstec.ca.boeing.com (Charles DeRykus)
Subject: Re: children processes
Message-Id: <EtqCML.M8L@news.boeing.com>
In article <356ED573.8B952969@entergy.com>,
Cris Shupp <cshupp@entergy.com> wrote:
> Is there a way to have Perl spawn x number of processes and allow them
> to only use up to y number of cpu seconds before killing the process?
> The purpose of this is to prevent run away processes from consuming to
> much of our systems resources.
>
Have each child set a hari-kari alarm, e.g,
# child process
eval {
local $SIG{__DIE__} = 'DEFAULT';
local $SIG{ALRM} = sub { die "timed out" };
alarm 60; # 1 minute time out
....
};
alarm 0;
if ($@ =~ /^timed out/) {
....
} elsif ($@) {
die "unexpected eval error: $@";
}
HTH,
--
Charles DeRykus
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 29 May 1998 13:24:42 -0400
From: comdog@computerdog.com (brian d foy)
Subject: Re: Don't Know how to decrypt using PERL
Message-Id: <comdog-ya02408000R2905981324420001@news.panix.com>
Keywords: from just another new york perl hacker
In article <6kmhse$rqu@hplntx.hpl.hp.com>, "Larry Rosler" <lr@hpl.hp.com> posted:
>Bbirthisel wrote in message
><1998052914093100.KAA21704@ladder03.news.aol.com>...
>...
>>If someone really DOES need a copy of the crypt(3) manpage, I can send
>it
>>via email.
>I think you are missing my point, which was about behavior modification.
>Significant bandwidth could have been saved here if the responder had
>simply cut-and-pasted the relevant paragraph out of the crypt(3)
>manpage, instead of blowing the question away with "RTF Unix manual".
i have no sympathy for people that can't learn to find things on
their own. the unix man pages can be read over the web, and are
quite easy to find with something like Yahoo. once found, one
has a resource that one can use again, rather than having to
ask another question. once found, one has the definative answers
to one's questions rather than the half-guesses of the responses
that typify usenet.
it's much more instructive for someone to find documentation on their
own. persons who often use libraries know the deal - ask a librarian
about something and they'll show you how to find it, but they won't
bother to find the resource, photocopy and edit it, then hand deliver
it to you for all but the most esoteric bits of information. *and*
they get *paid* to do their job.
if you don't like me telling people where to find info, find it
yourself and post it. post every freaking man page, pod, and bit of
source. see how much bandwidth *that* sucks! calculate how much
bandwidth has been sucked by your ranting about my line of less than
100 bytes. determine how much thought time has gone into debating
this. think about how many more messages were generated because
you wanted to have a meta discussion. *then* we'll talk about a
waste of bandwidth.
>It's a question of courtesy and newsgroup policy.
if you don't like my posts, use your killfile. otherwise, get used
to it.
--
brian d foy <comdog@computerdog.com>
CGI Meta FAQ <URL:http://computerdog.com/CGI_MetaFAQ.html>
Comprehensive Perl Archive Network (CPAN) <URL:http://www.perl.com>
Perl Mongers T-shirts! <URL:http://www.pm.org/tshirts.html>
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 29 May 1998 11:33:46 -0700
From: "Larry Rosler" <lr@hpl.hp.com>
Subject: Re: Don't Know how to decrypt using PERL
Message-Id: <6kmv23$2m4@hplntx.hpl.hp.com>
[posted and emailed]
Bbirthisel wrote in message
<1998052915181800.LAA26795@ladder03.news.aol.com>...
>Hi Larry:
>
>A quick followup to my earlier post. The linux manpages
>are available for download as a set (tar.gz) from:
>
> ftp://ftp.win.tue.nl/pub/linux/man
>
>I got there via the Linux Documentation Project at
>
> http://sunsite.unc.edu/LDP
>
>sunsite has lots of mirrors. It has links to various documentation
>resources in a variety of formats. Crypt(3) is included in the
>manpage set.
>
>Good luck,
>
>-bill
>Making computers work in Manufacturing for over 25 years (inquiries
welcome)
Oh, boy! This was very instructive indeed.
I downloaded 'man-pages-1.19.tar.gz' from that site to my Unix
workstation. It came across as 'man-pages-1.19.tar' so I renamed it,
'gunzip'ped it, 'tar xvf'ed it, and found '.../man3/crypt.3' which is an
nroff file! In that file, I found the following:
.PP
.I salt
is a two-character string chosen from the set
[\fBa\fP\(en\fBzA\fP\(en\fBZ0\fP\(en\fB9./\fP]. This string is used to
perturb the algorithm in one of 4096 different ways.
Wowee! Now PLEASE tell me how I was supposed to find that out if all I
had available was my Windows NT, Windows 95 or Windows CE systems???
It sounds as though I would be out of "Good luck".
Please, folks. Get your heads out of the Unix sandbox. Continued blind
Unix-centrism will hinder Perl, not help it.
--
Larry Rosler
Hewlett-Packard Laboratories
lr@hpl.hp.com
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 29 May 1998 11:44:30 -0700
From: "Larry Rosler" <lr@hpl.hp.com>
Subject: Re: Don't Know how to decrypt using PERL
Message-Id: <6kmvm3$2rq@hplntx.hpl.hp.com>
[posted and emailed]
brian d foy wrote ...
...
>i have no sympathy for people that can't learn to find things on
>their own. the unix man pages can be read over the web, and are
>quite easy to find with something like Yahoo. once found, one
>has a resource that one can use again, rather than having to
>ask another question. once found, one has the definative answers
>to one's questions rather than the half-guesses of the responses
>that typify usenet.
>
>it's much more instructive for someone to find documentation on their
>own. persons who often use libraries know the deal - ask a librarian
>about something and they'll show you how to find it, but they won't
>bother to find the resource, photocopy and edit it, then hand deliver
>it to you for all but the most esoteric bits of information. *and*
>they get *paid* to do their job.
>
...<succeeding rant clipped>
I presume you would be careful enough to test code snippets before
posting them. I think the same care should be applied to this kind of
response.
Following your advice, I did this:
I followed the Yahoo! trail down to
<URL:http://www.yahoo.com/Computers_and_Internet/Software/Operating_Syst
ems/Unix/>. Faced with 31 categories below that, I tried using the
"Search just this category" facility for 'crypt' and got no matches. So
I tried "Search all of Yahoo!" and got 10 category matches and 262 site
matches with crypt.*, none of which had anythoing to do with the C
library function 'crypt'. Dead end!!!
I don't find this exercise "much more instructive" than being given a
URL that works (whether or not I have Unix available), or even a simple
single sentence of explanation in courteous response to the question.
See also my response to bbirthisel@aol.com, who *did* provide a URL,
which worked when I applied my Unix system and all my Unix skills to it.
Very deep sigh...
--
Larry Rosler
Hewlett-Packard Laboratories
lr@hpl.hp.com
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 29 May 1998 13:39:55 -0400
From: comdog@computerdog.com (brian d foy)
Subject: Re: Eeek, How do I use HTML::Parser?
Message-Id: <comdog-ya02408000R2905981339550001@news.panix.com>
Keywords: from just another new york perl hacker
In article <356ED89D.7DF92411@mail.xmission.com>, "Doran L. Barton" <fozz@mail.xmission.com> posted:
>I recently asked about using RegEx's to break up some HTML into a list.
>Now I realize I should be using HTML::Parser. That's cool... but how do
>you use the damn thing. The documentation could use a couple of
>implementation examples. I'll be sure to mail the author.
>
>In the meantime, does anyone have any code they could show me?
if you search Deja News (in this newsgroup) for "HTML::Parser",
you find some examples in messages:
Subject: Re: HTML::Parser
From: Gellyfish@btinternet.com (Jonathan Stowe)
Date: 1998/05/01
Subject: Re: Extract links and text from HTML
From: Gisle Aas <aas@bergen.sn.no>
Date: 1997/02/07
there are more, but those are the one that i remember. you could
also search for all articles by Gisle on the subject.
if you still want more examples, you might look in the HeadParser or
LinkExtor modules that come with the latest HTML::* package.
good luck :)
--
brian d foy <comdog@computerdog.com>
CGI Meta FAQ <URL:http://computerdog.com/CGI_MetaFAQ.html>
Comprehensive Perl Archive Network (CPAN) <URL:http://www.perl.com>
Perl Mongers T-shirts! <URL:http://www.pm.org/tshirts.html>
more fodder for an LR rant i suppose.
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 29 May 1998 13:11:05 -0400
From: Brian Mathis <brianm@kodak.com>
To: Rafkin <Rafkin@Hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: HELP!!!!!!
Message-Id: <356EEC29.9B3A4BB1@kodak.com>
[posted and emailed]
Rafkin wrote:
>
> Hi, I'm a sort of newbie to Perl cgi scripting.. Though i do gather a lot
> of how it's done..
> One thing I am having problems with is this. The server where i host (or
> will host) my cgi's on does not allow telnet access. I have to upload the
> cgi to my cgi-bin and then use the ws_ftp chmod command to make it
> executable (755)
Find a new place to host your site. Most of the time, ISPs that don't allow
telnet access are doing it because of a perceived security risk. However,
providing you with CGI access is just as "risky" was a shell account (as in, not
very risky). My guess is, that your ISP likes to tell everyone that they think
they know what they are doing, but really don't.
Brian Mathis
--
$_="
,.,,,.,,.,,.,,,,..,,,,,,,,.,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,.,,,,,,,..,..,,.,,,,,,,,,
";s/\s//gs; tr/,./05/; @a=split(//); $_=<DATA>; tr/~`'"^/0-4/;map{$o.=
$a[$i]+$_;$i++} split(//); map{$o[++$#o]=substr($o,$j,3);$j+=3}@a;map{
print chr($_)}@o; __DATA__ # Brian Mathis, Just another perl hacker.
~'^``'``~```~"'~^'``~```````~^`~```^~"'``'`~```^`~"~"'`~^~^'~^^`~'`~```^~`~
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 29 May 1998 12:42:50 -0400
From: Ala Qumsieh <aqumsieh@matrox.com>
Subject: Re: How do I pass multiple parameters to a cgi script from the browser?
Message-Id: <356EE58A.317168BF@matrox.com>
Eliot wrote:
> I fail to see how this statement helps me when you could have posted an
> excerpt from or a URL for a FAQ. If you don't want to help, please
> don't waste bandwidth with "Go somewhere else".
So ... you are looking for someone that is willing to do your work for you while
you sit back and relax? That is what I understand from your comment.Tom Phoenix
happens to be one of the most helpful people (IMO) on this newsgroup. The fact
that he pointed you to look somewhere else (instead of just doing you work for
you) is because he wants you to learn to dig deeper into the FAQs. A lot of time
and energy could be saved if posters tried to search for posted answers for their
(common) problems before attempting to post to newsgroups.
The problem you posted is a standard and I am sure you can find it documented in
the FAQs if you look hard enough.
> In article <Pine.GSO.3.96.980528222434.3419O-100000@user2.teleport.com>,
> Tom Phoenix <rootbeer@teleport.com> wrote:
> >On Fri, 29 May 1998, Eliot wrote:
> >
> >> Subject: How do I pass multiple parameters to a cgi script from the browser?
> >>
> >> I've been hacking at a Perl script for awhile now, and I can't figure
> >> out how to pass two parameters to the script at once,
> >
> >You pass parameters to a CGI script in the same way no matter what
> >language it's written in. The docs, FAQs, and newsgroups about web-related
> >issues should be able to help you with this. Hope this helps!
> >
--
Ala Qumsieh | No .. not just another
ASIC Design Engineer | Perl Hacker!!!!!
Matrox Graphics Inc. |
Montreal, Quebec | (Not yet!)
------------------------------
Date: 29 May 1998 17:54:12 GMT
From: gerg@shell. (Greg Andrews)
Subject: Re: Killing a thread (was: Re: Stop Changing Subject Lines!!)
Message-Id: <6kmso4$147$2@news.ncal.verio.com>
barr@cis.ohio-state.edu (Dave Barr) writes:
>In article <871ztmm9hj.fsf@bj2-64.rh.uchicago.edu>,
>Peter A Fein <p-fein@uchicago.edu> wrote:
>>Per Abrahamsen <abraham@dina.kvl.dk> writes:
>>> Peter A Fein <p-fein@uchicago.edu> writes:
>>> > It makes generating a useful killfile damn near impossible.
>>> Use the thread kill function (`L T' in your newsreader) instead.
>>
>>True- if I do it on the original message. Otherwise, it's only going
>>to kill the subthread, as it should.
>
>No, only a subthread kill should kill a subthread. ("T," in trn)
>A thread kill ("Tk" in trn) kills a thread.
>
Ugh. Next you'll start talking about thread destructors and
multiple inheritance. Object Oriented killfiling. ;-)
-Greg
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 29 May 1998 20:19:01 -0700
From: Jan Krynicky <JKRY3025@comenius.ms.mff.cuni.cz>
Subject: Re: Modules in Perl
Message-Id: <356F7AA5.6634@comenius.ms.mff.cuni.cz>
J wrote:
>
> thanks all!!
>
> will try a few things....
>
> I put Escape.pm in c:\website\perl5\Lib i think.
And we know the bug.
The module is named URI::Escape so Escape.pm should be placed to
c:\website\perl5\Lib\URI directory.
Perl does something like this if you use a $Module:
$file = $Module;
$file =~ s#::#/#g;
foreach $dir (@INC) {
if (-e $dir.'/'.$file) {
load_module $dir.'/'.$file;
$found=1;
last;
}
}
if (! $found) {die "Unable to find module $Module ..."};
HTH, Jenda
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 29 May 1998 20:40:40 +0200
From: Mark Seuffert <captain@NOSPAM.pirate.de>
Subject: Q: How to read AND write to a programm?
Message-Id: <356F0128.EB@NOSPAM.pirate.de>
Hi,
sure I can write to programm, for example to 'sendmail' to send mails.
But now I have the problem, that I want also read what the programm
writes back to STDOUT... what I wanna do:
I want to execute this programm:
/usr/local/bin/nc 194.1.2.3 9000
then I write the following lines
EXEC SELECT Name,Email FROM ADRESSEN
END
and now I wanna read what the programm writes to STDOUT
Thanks for some code or help! :)
--
/Moak (delete "nospam" in emailadress)
http://home.pages.de/~irc ~html ~unix
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 29 May 1998 12:49:45 -0400
From: Shawn Porter <two_step@bigfoot.com>
To: "Doran L. Barton" <fozz@mail.xmission.com>
Subject: Re: RegEx for breaking up HTML
Message-Id: <356EE729.F1302504@bigfoot.com>
Doran,
I couldn't figure out a regex to do it, but this does the trick. It
doesn't strip newlines as in your example. If you want to strip
newlines, just add
$document =~ s/\n//g;
or maybe
$document =~ s/\n/ /g;
--
#!/usr/local/bin/perl
$document = "this <b>a test</b> something\n";
while($document ne '')
{
if($document =~ s/^<(.*?)>//)
{
push(@elements, "<$1>");
}
elsif($document =~ s/^([^<>]+)//)
{
push(@elements, $1);
}
else
{
print "unmatched >\n";
}
}
foreach (@elements)
{
print "$_\n";
}
--
Shawn Porter
http://www.rit.edu/~sjp6683
--
Doran L. Barton wrote:
> I need a RegEx that will return a list of HTML elements and non-HTML
> elements in a stream. For example, a file looks like this:
>
> <H1>Hello</H1>
> <p>My name is <i>Bob</i>.
>
> I want the RegEx to return the following list:
>
> ("<H1>", "Hello", "</H1>", "<p>", "My name is ", "<i>", "Bob", "</i>",
> ".")
>
> And I can't for the life of me figure it out. *screams*
>
> Any help would be greatly appreciated!
>
> -=Fozz
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 29 May 1998 14:35:25 -0400
From: "Brian J. Sayatovic" <bjs@iti-oh.com>
Subject: Returning from a signal handler?
Message-Id: <6kmvd7$828$1@malgudi.oar.net>
I'm writing a perl script which runs a batch of programs one at a time.
If one particular one fails, say, due to a segv, I want it to be handled by
perl so I can log it, and continue with the next program. I have my signal
handling set up sort of like this pseudo-code:
signalHandler {
if(!$executingProcess) {
die "Error in perl script!";
} else {
$signaledInProcess = $True;
}
}
sub doProcess {
$executingProcess = $True;
executeProcess();
$executingProcess = $False;
if($signaledInProcess) {
displaySignal();
}
}
What I'd like to know is where the signalHandler will retrun to when it
catches a signal from the process. Is this even possible? Every example
I've seen seems to just "die" in the signal handler. However in this case,
I don't want the script to die when one of its batch of processes fails.
Brian.
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 29 May 1998 14:16:20 -0500
From: mike_murphy-ppk@nortel.com (Michael Murphy)
Subject: Seeking HTML::FormatPS module
Message-Id: <mike_murphy-ppk-2905981416200001@nppkm606.us.nortel.com>
I've purchased the Perl Resource Kit by O'Reilly and in the module
reference and the module listing there is a reference to a module named
HTML::FormatPS. I've looked on the CD and CPAN and can't find it. Does
anyone know anything about this module and know where I can get it. Any
help would be appreciated.
TIA,
Mike
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
~ Mike Murphy ~ Nortel ~
~ my opinions are my own ~ Raleigh, North Carolina ~
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
------------------------------
Date: 29 May 1998 17:56:41 GMT
From: bbirthisel@aol.com (Bbirthisel)
Subject: Re: simple question
Message-Id: <1998052917564100.NAA14023@ladder01.news.aol.com>
Hi Larry:
>There is an excellent book, "Learning Perl" from O'Reilly & Associates
><URL:http://www.ora.com>, which should help you get through these
>basics.
Since the original poster was on Win95, "Learning Perl for Win32 Systems"
(same reference) would be a better "first" source.
-bill
Making computers work in Manufacturing for over 25 years (inquiries welcome)
------------------------------
Date: 29 May 1998 16:59:51 GMT
From: gbacon@cs.uah.edu (Greg Bacon)
Subject: Re: Statistics for comp.lang.perl.misc
Message-Id: <6kmpi7$l28$1@info.uah.edu>
In article <pudge-2805982310230001@dynamic265.ply.adelphia.net>,
pudge@pobox.com (Chris Nandor) writes:
: In article <6kklre$e3q$5@info.uah.edu>, Greg Bacon <gbacon@cs.uah.edu> wrote:
: # I believe the issue Tom brought to the table was of interest to the Perl
: # community. Further, I think had it been posted to a moderated group,
: # the flamefest might have been easier to control.
:
: I respectfully disagree. I think that possibly a post of notice ("here is
: what the FSF page says") might be on topic, so maybe the original post
: was; but further discussion of the matter, IMO, would not have been.
How is that different from what I said?
Greg
--
open(G,"|gzip -dc");$_=<<EOF;s/[0-9a-f]+/print G pack("h*",$&)/eg
f1b88000b620f22320303fa2d2e21584ccbcf29c84d2258084
d2ac158c84c4ece4d22d1000118a8d5491000000
EOF
------------------------------
Date: 29 May 1998 17:06:05 GMT
From: gbacon@cs.uah.edu (Greg Bacon)
Subject: Re: Statistics for comp.lang.perl.misc
Message-Id: <6kmptu$l28$2@info.uah.edu>
In article <6kkoec$bdn@news1.newsguy.com>,
lindahl@pbm.com (Greg Lindahl) writes:
: Have you considered the possibility that Tom's generation of flames
: has to do with the senseless nature of his initial flame, not that he
: was "daring to speak out against the FSF?"
Senseless? It seems to me that when someone has worked very hard to
produce a gift for the community the worst response is to say that it
wasn't really a gift. I can see why Tom would be upset and insulted
especially when there are no calls for free versions of documents like
"Why Software Should Be Free".
Tom is a very big contributor to our Community. The damage to our
Community that would result from Tom no longer contributing would be
very real and very great.
: It boggles my mind that you
: would find such senseless flaming, especially Tom's initial blast, to
: be appropriate for a moderated Perl forum which isn't supposd to
: contain advocacy.
You're putting words in my mouth. I said Tom's post would be
appropriate.
Greg
--
open(G,"|gzip -dc");$_=<<EOF;s/[0-9a-f]+/print G pack("h*",$&)/eg
f1b88000b620f22320303fa2d2e21584ccbcf29c84d2258084
d2ac158c84c4ece4d22d1000118a8d5491000000
EOF
------------------------------
Date: 29 May 1998 18:01:05 GMT
From: gebis@albrecht.ecn.purdue.edu (Michael J Gebis)
Subject: Re: Statistics for comp.lang.perl.misc
Message-Id: <6kmt51$91o@mozo.cc.purdue.edu>
gbacon@cs.uah.edu (Greg Bacon) writes:
}Senseless? It seems to me that when someone has worked very hard to
}produce a gift for the community the worst response is to say that it
}wasn't really a gift.
The FSF wants a gift with NO strings attached. Tom's gift has strings
attached. As perfectly reasonable as Tom's "strings" are, they still
don't meet the FSF's every desire.
I don't see why either side should care. Tom should have thought,
"The FSF wants documentation with certain restrictions. My documents
have other restrictions, and I like 'em that way. Can't please
everybody all of the time, and what I'm doing works for me. Time to
have a beer."
The FSF should say, "If Tom gets hit by a sausage truck or turns
evil, we would be screwed since we might have to start creating
documentation from scratch. Let's cross that bridge when we come to
it. Time to have a beer."
--
Mike Gebis gebis@ecn.purdue.edu mgebis@eternal.net
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 29 May 1998 18:25:04 GMT
From: pudge@pobox.com (Chris Nandor)
Subject: Re: Statistics for comp.lang.perl.misc
Message-Id: <pudge-2905981419240001@dynamic265.ply.adelphia.net>
In article <6kmpi7$l28$1@info.uah.edu>, Greg Bacon <gbacon@cs.uah.edu> wrote:
# In article <pudge-2805982310230001@dynamic265.ply.adelphia.net>,
# pudge@pobox.com (Chris Nandor) writes:
# : In article <6kklre$e3q$5@info.uah.edu>, Greg Bacon <gbacon@cs.uah.edu>
# wrote:
# : # I believe the issue Tom brought to the table was of interest to the Perl
# : # community. Further, I think had it been posted to a moderated group,
# : # the flamefest might have been easier to control.
# :
# : I respectfully disagree. I think that possibly a post of notice ("here is
# : what the FSF page says") might be on topic, so maybe the original post
# : was; but further discussion of the matter, IMO, would not have been.
#
# How is that different from what I said?
I guess it is not too different. You seemed to imply discussion would be
on topic, and I am not so sure any significant discussion (flamefest or
not) would be appropriate.
--
Chris Nandor mailto:pudge@pobox.com http://pudge.net/
%PGPKey = ('B76E72AD', [1024, '0824090B CE73CA10 1FF77F13 8180B6B6'])
------------------------------
Date: 29 May 1998 10:59:14 -0700
From: Evan Kirshenbaum <evan@garrett.hpl.hp.com>
Subject: Re: Tom Christiansen attacks the free software community (was: Re: GNU attacks on the open software community)
Message-Id: <v9hyavlklfx.fsf@garrett.hpl.hp.com>
lindahl@pbm.com (Greg Lindahl) writes:
> Evan Kirshenbaum <evan@garrett.hpl.hp.com> writes:
>
> > I suspect that they would give something akin to "not subject to
> > government regulation" (Merriam-Webster's definition 4b). I would be
> > quite surprised if anybody said that a "free press" implied that a
> > purchaser of the _New York Times_ was allowed to recast and republish
> > the lead story.
>
> I've never seen anyone say that. What I have seen people say is that
> "free press" is a good counter-example which disproves "free always
> means no cost" claims, not that "free press" explains "free software".
>
> But hey, given the high level of flame around here, it's no surprise
> that people don't read carefully.
Sorry. I got this subthread confused with another. The claim I was
responding to (in the other subthread) was that RMS and company hadn't
invented a new meaning for the word "free", but rather that their
definition was one that had "been in place for centuries". I
therefore challenged people to come up with any other word for which
the modifier "free" meant what they use it to mean when applied to
"software". I sloppily misread that "press" and "speech" were being
brought up in response to that challenge.
Clearly, there are many meanings of the word "free". Equally clearly,
when applied to something people are used to being charged for, it
will tend to be interpreted as "without cost". What surprised me was
the realization that the FSF hadn't merely appropriated an existing
meaning, but had made up a new one.
--
Evan Kirshenbaum +------------------------------------
HP Laboratories |It's gotten to the point where the
1501 Page Mill Road, Building 1U |only place you can get work done is
Palo Alto, CA 94304 |at home, because no one bugs you,
|and the best place to entertain
kirshenbaum@hpl.hp.com |yourself is at work, because the
(650)857-7572 |Internet connections are faster.
| Scott Adams
http://www.hpl.hp.com/personal/Evan_Kirshenbaum/
------------------------------
Date: 8 Mar 97 21:33:47 GMT (Last modified)
From: Perl-Request@ruby.oce.orst.edu (Perl-Users-Digest Admin)
Subject: Digest Administrivia (Last modified: 8 Mar 97)
Message-Id: <null>
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