[9097] in Perl-Users-Digest
Perl-Users Digest, Issue: 2715 Volume: 8
daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (Perl-Users Digest)
Mon May 25 13:15:16 1998
Date: Mon, 25 May 98 10:00:28 -0700
From: Perl-Users Digest <Perl-Users-Request@ruby.OCE.ORST.EDU>
To: Perl-Users@ruby.OCE.ORST.EDU (Perl-Users Digest)
Perl-Users Digest Mon, 25 May 1998 Volume: 8 Number: 2715
Today's topics:
Re: [Q] MacPerl: droplets and STDIN/@ARGV (Rich Morin)
Re: An unwelcome and undeserved slap <wd@uebemc.siemens.de>
Re: An unwelcome and undeserved slap <dak@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de>
Re: An unwelcome and undeserved slap (Greg Lindahl)
Array splices with negative indeces <hash@email.infotrade.co.uk>
Re: Array splices with negative indeces (Mike Stok)
Re: case insensitive checks, a=b <aqumsieh@matrox.com>
DEBUG and Perl Win32 (David Shapiro)
Formmail 1.6 & FileMaker <gilray@cam.org>
get what is the RE causing matching <gulli@di.unipi.it>
Re: get what is the RE causing matching (Mike Stok)
Re: GNU attacks on the open software community (Chris Nandor)
Re: GNU attacks on the open software community <dak@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de>
Re: GNU attacks on the open software community (Howard Goldstein)
Re: GNU attacks on the open software community <sb@metis.no>
Re: GNU attacks on the open software community (Fergus Henderson)
Re: GNU attacks on the open software community (Fergus Henderson)
Re: GPL documentation == unspeakable evil (Fergus Henderson)
Re: GPL documentation == unspeakable evil <ngouah@erols.com>
Re: GPL documentation == unspeakable evil <hood@eng.sun.com>
Re: how to install CPAN modules (LWP)? (Randy Kobes)
Re: More double standards out of the FSF <lingnau@tm.informatik.uni-frankfurt.de>
Re: Need a "word-count" (Gabor)
Re: Perl terminology <aqumsieh@matrox.com>
Possible to "skip" a record? (coop)
Re: Quiet summary (Chris Nandor)
shared objects and embedded Perl <gvacanti@astro.estec.esa.nl>
Re: Shell to perl (Mike Stok)
Re: Shell to perl <zenin@bawdycaste.org>
Re: Win32 NT Perl Wrapper <camerond@mail.uca.edu>
Zip code searching with perl <jake@www.mtweb.net>
Digest Administrivia (Last modified: 8 Mar 97) (Perl-Users-Digest Admin)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Mon, 25 May 1998 08:24:41 -0700
From: rdm@cfcl.com (Rich Morin)
Subject: Re: [Q] MacPerl: droplets and STDIN/@ARGV
Message-Id: <rdm-2505980824410001@140.174.42.30>
In article <pudge-2505980856510001@dynamic265.ply.adelphia.net>,
pudge@pobox.com (Chris Nandor) wrote:
> In article <356919DE.51E73693@syllogic.com>,
marten.trautwein@syllogic.nl wrote:
>
> # I have a simple question as an experienced Unix, but novice MacPerl
> # user:
>
> YIKES! MacPerl 4.1.8?? You want MacPerl 5.2.0r4. MacPerl 4.1.8 was
> based on perl 4 (4.036, I believe).
>
> That should fix your problem.
More generally, for information on MacPerl, you should visit the MacPerl
Pages (http://www.ptf.com/macperl). While you're there, you can join the
MacPerl email list and take a look at the HTML copy of "MacPerl: Power and
Ease", PTF's new book on MacPerl.
-r
--
Canta Forda Computer Laboratory | Prime Time Freeware - quality
UNIX consulting, training, & writing | freeware at affordable prices
+1 415-873-7841 | +1 408-433-9662 -0727 (Fax)
Rich Morin, rdm@cfcl.com | www.ptf.com, info@ptf.com
------------------------------
Date: 25 May 1998 13:53:42 GMT
From: Wolfgang Denk <wd@uebemc.siemens.de>
Subject: Re: An unwelcome and undeserved slap
Message-Id: <6kbt56$883$1@galaxy.mchh.siemens.de>
egkioule@u.washington.edu (E. Gkioulekas) writes:
>>the Perl development community--a community, I shall note, in which
>>they have never played any role. It is not ``GNU Perl'', you know.
> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>The FSF has never called Perl, the GNU Perl. I think there is some territorial
>instict at work here. You think of the FSF as outsiders that want to come
>in and meddle the waters. I think that if someone were to take on that task,
Well, at least this is what they tried when they started talking about
``GNU Linux''.
Wolfgang Denk
Office: (+49)-89-722-27328, Fax -36703 Wolfgang.Denk@oen.siemens.de
Private: (+49)-89-95720-110, Fax -112 wd@denx.muc.de
The faster I go, the behinder I get. -- Lewis Carroll
------------------------------
Date: 25 May 1998 17:49:42 +0200
From: David Kastrup <dak@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de>
Subject: Re: An unwelcome and undeserved slap
Message-Id: <m2g1hy8i5l.fsf@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de>
Wolfgang Denk <wd@uebemc.siemens.de> writes:
> egkioule@u.washington.edu (E. Gkioulekas) writes:
>
> >>the Perl development community--a community, I shall note, in which
> >>they have never played any role. It is not ``GNU Perl'', you know.
> > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>
> >The FSF has never called Perl, the GNU Perl. I think there is some territorial
> >instict at work here. You think of the FSF as outsiders that want to come
> >in and meddle the waters. I think that if someone were to take on that task,
>
> Well, at least this is what they tried when they started talking about
> ``GNU Linux''.
Not quite. They never wanted to call the *kernel* GNU/Linux. Only
when you put it together with GNU software, other stuff the FSF had
been planning to use in their GNU system, and `glue', they want that
you call the resulting system GNU/Linux. Not that this has not been
felt as meddling well enough...
--
David Kastrup Phone: +49-234-700-5570
Email: dak@neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de Fax: +49-234-709-4209
Institut f|r Neuroinformatik, Universitdtsstr. 150, 44780 Bochum, Germany
------------------------------
Date: 25 May 1998 15:51:33 GMT
From: lindahl@pbm.com (Greg Lindahl)
Subject: Re: An unwelcome and undeserved slap
Message-Id: <6kc425$nh7@news3.newsguy.com>
egkioule@u.washington.edu (E. Gkioulekas) writes:
> I agree with you that the two communities should think of themselves as
> allies.
One point on which Tom has been actively misleading people is that
this is some sort of war between 2 separate communities -- it isn't.
I've contributed to both perl and the FSF, and I think Tom's flamewar
is an incredibly unconstructive act. I suspect I'm not that unusual.
> >That web page and the subsequent commentary offered by their attendant
> >sycophants constitute nothing short of a veiled yet viscious insult
> >hurled at those of us who've worked incredibly hard for more a decade
> >to produce the free 1,000 page book that *is* the Perl documentation.
Yadda yadda yadda. Tom, grow up.
-- greg
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 25 May 1998 13:02:29 +0100
From: "Alex Barilo" <hash@email.infotrade.co.uk>
Subject: Array splices with negative indeces
Message-Id: <6kbun4$5v5@news3.force9.net>
Hi,
let's say I have an array @a;
I can say:
@a[0, -1]
@a[-3, -1]
but I CAN NOT say:
@a[-3..-1] or
@a[0..-2]
Yes, actually I can, but I get an empty array.
The question is: WHY?
Cheers,
Alex.
--
All you need is PERL
------------------------------
Date: 25 May 1998 16:20:59 GMT
From: mike@stok.co.uk (Mike Stok)
Subject: Re: Array splices with negative indeces
Message-Id: <6kc5pb$atp@news-central.tiac.net>
In article <6kbun4$5v5@news3.force9.net>,
Alex Barilo <hash@email.infotrade.co.uk> wrote:
>Hi,
>
>let's say I have an array @a;
>
>I can say:
>@a[0, -1]
>@a[-3, -1]
>
>but I CAN NOT say:
>@a[-3..-1] or
You can say this:
DB<1> @a = ('a' .. 'z')
DB<2> print @a[0, -1]
az
DB<3> print @a[-3, -1]
xz
DB<4> print @a[-3 .. -1]
xyz
>@a[0..-2]
>
>Yes, actually I can, but I get an empty array.
>
>The question is: WHY?
Binary .. counts up, so the right hand value has to be greater than or
equal to the left habd value for the list returned by .. to contain any
elements e.g.
DB<8> print scalar (() = (7 .. 10))
4
DB<9> print scalar (() = (7 .. 7))
1
DB<10> print scalar (() = (7 .. 6))
0
one way to get a list might be to use reverse
$first = 7;
$last = 5;
@list = ($first <= $last) ? ($first .. $last) : reverse ($last .. $first);
which should leave @list containing 7, 6, 5 ... but when you're using
negative offsets then negative numbers usually mean a positive offset, so
you probably weren't after elements 0, -1 and -2 when you said
@a[0 .. -2];
but you might want
@a[0 .. $#a + 1 -2];
or
@a[0 .. @a -2];
(I assume that $[ hasn't been messed with)
In both those cases you still need to make sure that the expression on the
right of the .. is greater than or equal to that on the left.
Hope this helps,
Mike
--
mike@stok.co.uk | The "`Stok' disclaimers" apply.
http://www.stok.co.uk/~mike/ | PGP fingerprint FE 56 4D 7D 42 1A 4A 9C
http://www.tiac.net/users/stok/ | 65 F3 3F 1D 27 22 B7 41
stok@colltech.com | Collective Technologies (work)
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 25 May 1998 11:02:55 -0400
From: Ala Qumsieh <aqumsieh@matrox.com>
Subject: Re: case insensitive checks, a=b
Message-Id: <3569881F.B73E1885@matrox.com>
Craig Berry wrote:
> Ala Qumsieh (aqumsieh@matrox.com) wrote:
> : You might also want to use regexps like so:
> :
> : if ($a =~ /$b/i) {
> : # do your stuff
> : }
>
> Better make that /^\Q$b\E$/i . Otherwise $a = 'abcde' will compare
> 'equal' to both $b = 'cd' and and $b = 'q?', for example.
if ($a =~ /^\Q$b\E$/i) {
#do your stuff
}
there you go :-)
--
Ala Qumsieh | No .. not just another
ASIC Design Engineer | Perl Hacker!!!!!
Matrox Graphics Inc. |
Montreal, Quebec | (Not yet!)
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 25 May 1998 15:23:03 GMT
From: shapi003@mc.duke.edu (David Shapiro)
Subject: DEBUG and Perl Win32
Message-Id: <6kbv67$3i$1@news.duke.edu>
I want to use perl to read debug information and display its output in
a readable fashion.
For example, I want to extract out bios versions using debug. How do
you convert the mumbo jumbo to something readable? Is the debug info
binary or hex? I think it has something to do with hex() or oct() and
maybe sprintf or printf, but I do not know for certain.
David
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 25 May 1998 11:04:07 -0500
From: Gilles Raymond <gilray@cam.org>
Subject: Formmail 1.6 & FileMaker
Message-Id: <35699349.6593@cam.org>
I am looking for a way to import or transfer in FileMaker Pro 4.0 the
answers that I receive in the mail from people filling out the form on
my web page. Has anyone ever tried this? Is there anywhere any
shareware or freeware program or script or AppleScript doing this
easily?
I am currently using Claris Emailer 2.0v3 on the MacOS.
I am also using Matt's Formmail 1.6 cgi script
(http://www.worldwidemart.com/scripts/formmail.shtml).
Can it be modified to send me automatically a tab-delimited text file as
an attachment to the email I receive? All the fields (i.e. the answers
only) should show up, even those left blank by the person filling out
the form. The attachment's name should also always be the same and
automatically be incremented so that
FileMaker could find/open/import them easily.
With all my thanks for your comments.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 25 May 1998 13:39:10 +0200
From: Antonio Gulli <gulli@di.unipi.it>
To: gulli@di.unipi.it
Subject: get what is the RE causing matching
Message-Id: <3569585C.75D886B5@di.unipi.it>
Dear All, i have this kind of code:
while ($string =~ /$REG_EXP/gi){
$before = $'; # preceding
$string = $'; # following
$matching = $&;
}
$REG_EXP is something like ---> REXP1|REXP2|REXP3| ....|REXPn
Well what i need is tho know what kind of Regular Expression REXPi
cause the while guard to be satisfyed. In perl simple $& gives me what
is the part of string satisfyng $REG_EXP, instead.
Any help will be appreciated. If is possible i would like to avoid to
put
REXP1, ... REGEXP2 in a list and try every single of them using
something
like :
foreach $regexp (@regexpList){
if ($string =~ /$REG_EXP/gi){
$before = $'; # preceding
$string = $'; # following
$matching = $&;
}
}
Is this the only solution ?
--
Antonio Gulli' whois: gulli
Studio I-Tech gulli@studioitech.com
Computer Science gulli@di.unipi.it
(39) 50 544076 www.di.unipi.it/~gulli
Arianna team www.arianna.it
------------------------------
Date: 25 May 1998 16:47:55 GMT
From: mike@stok.co.uk (Mike Stok)
Subject: Re: get what is the RE causing matching
Message-Id: <6kc7br$atp@news-central.tiac.net>
In article <3569585C.75D886B5@di.unipi.it>,
Antonio Gulli <gulli@di.unipi.it> wrote:
>$REG_EXP is something like ---> REXP1|REXP2|REXP3| ....|REXPn
[.. don't want to do ..]
> foreach $regexp (@regexpList){
>
> if ($string =~ /$REG_EXP/gi){
>
> $before = $'; # preceding
> $string = $'; # following
> $matching = $&;
> }
> }
>
>Is this the only solution ?
Does the match_any routine at the end of
http://www.perl.com/CPAN-local/doc/FMTEYEWTK/regexps.html help at all?
It might give you a starting point as you might want to consider returning
a list of string fragments and matching against something like
^(.*)($regex)(.*)$
so you can return $1, $2 and $3 if it matches which avoids using $` $& and
$' - using them causes every pattern match to become more expensive as
perl hash to track them just in case they're used.
Hope this helps,
Mike
--
mike@stok.co.uk | The "`Stok' disclaimers" apply.
http://www.stok.co.uk/~mike/ | PGP fingerprint FE 56 4D 7D 42 1A 4A 9C
http://www.tiac.net/users/stok/ | 65 F3 3F 1D 27 22 B7 41
stok@colltech.com | Collective Technologies (work)
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 25 May 1998 14:08:20 GMT
From: pudge@pobox.com (Chris Nandor)
Subject: Re: GNU attacks on the open software community
Message-Id: <pudge-2505981002450001@dynamic265.ply.adelphia.net>
In article <slrn6mistj.7js.hgoldste@bbs.mpcs.com>, hgoldste@bbs.mpcs.com wrote:
# On Mon, 25 May 1998 13:12:56 GMT, Chris Nandor <pudge@pobox.com> wrote:
# : In article <6kb4tb$f8j$1@halcyon.com>, tzs@halcyon.com (Tim Smith) wrote:
# : # As far as copyright rights go, I don't believe this is true. "He let
# : # them violate his copyright, so he's got to let me do it too" won't get
# : # very far in court. Any lawyers lurking who care to comment?
# :
# : Well, the point that brings that together, even if you wouldn't buy that,
# : is the principle of fair use and market effect.
# :
# : A. Tom allows distribution on thousands of CD-ROMs
# : B. A new CD-ROM comes out with perlfaq, Tom tries to stop it
# : C. Tom has to prove that this new CD impacts market effect, which I
# cannot
# : see how he could do
#
# C doesn't follow. You appear to be relying on a sort of
# commutative-laches theory. A cite, please.
Feel free to show how Tom could prove that a new CD with perlfaq could
impact his market when the market is already saturated with CDs he has
knowingly allowed to be distributed with perlfaq on them. Please, I am
all ears/eyes.
--
Chris Nandor mailto:pudge@pobox.com http://pudge.net/
%PGPKey = ('B76E72AD', [1024, '0824090B CE73CA10 1FF77F13 8180B6B6'])
------------------------------
Date: 25 May 1998 16:00:51 +0200
From: David Kastrup <dak@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de>
Subject: Re: GNU attacks on the open software community
Message-Id: <m2iumu8n70.fsf@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de>
pudge@pobox.com (Chris Nandor) writes:
> In article <6kat3l$3tu$1@mulga.cs.mu.OZ.AU>, fjh@cs.mu.oz.au (Fergus
> Henderson) wrote:
>
> # The only way that a for-profit CD vendor can prove that no profit
> # was received for the perlfaq itself is to sell the whole CD at cost.
>
> You don't have to prove anything at all. The hypothetical plaintiff
> does. So if this would go to court, the plaintiff would have to prove
> that there was profit to be made from the inclusion of perlfaq, which I
> must say would be damned near impossible.
Nonsense. There is a profit made from the entire CD, the CD consists
of a lot of stuff just like the Perl FAQ (software, docs, etc.). What
makes the Perl FAQ special with regard to the other stuff on the CD,
so that you can say the other stuff will turn a profit, but not the
Perl FAQ? Is its quality as bad as that? The gist of this discussion
would suggest otherwise.
--
David Kastrup Phone: +49-234-700-5570
Email: dak@neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de Fax: +49-234-709-4209
Institut f|r Neuroinformatik, Universitdtsstr. 150, 44780 Bochum, Germany
------------------------------
Date: 25 May 1998 14:23:24 GMT
From: hgoldste@mpcs.com (Howard Goldstein)
Subject: Re: GNU attacks on the open software community
Message-Id: <slrn6mivms.7js.hgoldste@bbs.mpcs.com>
On Mon, 25 May 1998 14:08:20 GMT, Chris Nandor <pudge@pobox.com> wrote:
: In article <slrn6mistj.7js.hgoldste@bbs.mpcs.com>, hgoldste@bbs.mpcs.com wrote:
: #
: # C doesn't follow. You appear to be relying on a sort of
: # commutative-laches theory. A cite, please.
:
: Feel free to show how Tom could prove that a new CD with perlfaq could
: impact his market when the market is already saturated with CDs he has
: knowingly allowed to be distributed with perlfaq on them.
It's incumbent upon you to disclose the grounds of your, umm, creative
reliance on Tom's mental state vis-a-vis the various remedies provided
for in the Copyright Act.
: Please, I am
: all ears/eyes.
So asking you for a cite is asking too much, yes?
--
The ants are my friends, they're blowing in the wind
------------------------------
Date: 25 May 1998 16:58:01 +0200
From: Steinar Bang <sb@metis.no>
Subject: Re: GNU attacks on the open software community
Message-Id: <whyavq8kjq.fsf@viffer.oslo.metis.no>
>>>>> abigail@fnx.com (Abigail):
> IT IS SUGGESTING THE ONLY GOOD MANUALS ARE THE BOOKS.
It's in the eye of the beholder. To me it suggests that the FSF
hasn't thought much about perl one way or another, for the last 5
years or so.
------------------------------
Date: 25 May 1998 15:20:59 GMT
From: fjh@cs.mu.oz.au (Fergus Henderson)
Subject: Re: GNU attacks on the open software community
Message-Id: <6kc28r$rvo$1@mulga.cs.mu.OZ.AU>
pudge@pobox.com (Chris Nandor) writes:
>fjh@cs.mu.oz.au (Fergus Henderson) wrote:
>
># pudge@pobox.com (Chris Nandor) writes:
>#
># >fjh@cs.mu.oz.au (Fergus Henderson) wrote:
># >
># ># Why do you think Tom C. would lose?
># >
># >I have posted several times on why. Three main reasons: one, the license
># >allows putting it on a for-profit CD, as long as no profit is received
># >specifically for the perlfaq itself.
>#
># But this is a ridiculous position, as shown by John Stanley's
># reductio ad absurdum of austin ziegler's continued defence of
># this position.
>#
># The only way that a for-profit CD vendor can prove that no profit
># was received for the perlfaq itself is to sell the whole CD at cost.
>
>You don't have to prove anything at all. The hypothetical plaintiff
>does. So if this would go to court, the plaintiff would have to prove
>that there was profit to be made from the inclusion of perlfaq,
The plaintiff does not need to prove it beyond reasonable doubt.
The plaintiff only needs to convince the court that it is true
on the balance of probabilities.
>which I must say would be damned near impossible.
I don't think it would necessarily be that hard. After all, the vendor
is in this business for profit. If the vendor didn't think that
including the PerlFAQ in their distribution would increase their
profit, why would they include it?
I think it would be very difficult to determine *how much* profit
was due to the PerlFAQ. But I don't think it would be that hard
to prove that on the balance of probabilities the PerlFAQ was most
likely responsible for *some* profit (however small). And that
would place the CD vendor in violation of Tom C.'s license.
Furthermore, any damages awarded could be based on Tom C.'s loss of
income from book sales, not on the amount of profit the CD vendor made,
so the fact that it's difficult to prove that the CD vendor made much
profit from the PerlFAQ would not necessarily limit the amount of
damages that might be awarded.
--
Fergus Henderson <fjh@cs.mu.oz.au> | "I have always known that the pursuit
WWW: <http://www.cs.mu.oz.au/~fjh> | of excellence is a lethal habit"
PGP: finger fjh@128.250.37.3 | -- the last words of T. S. Garp.
------------------------------
Date: 25 May 1998 15:40:40 GMT
From: fjh@cs.mu.oz.au (Fergus Henderson)
Subject: Re: GNU attacks on the open software community
Message-Id: <6kc3do$sn1$1@mulga.cs.mu.OZ.AU>
pudge@pobox.com (Chris Nandor) writes:
> A. Tom allows distribution on thousands of CD-ROMs
> B. A new CD-ROM comes out with perlfaq, Tom tries to stop it
That's one possible scenario.
But another possible scenario is this one:
A. Tom allows distribution on thousands of CD-ROMs
(Actually this wording is slanted. An alternative
statement of the same thing is that initially, Tom
does not actively pursue the two or three CD-ROM vendors
who are distributing PerlFAQ.)
B. Later, Tom tries to stop ALL distribution of PerlFAQ on CD-ROMs.
> C. Tom has to prove that this new CD impacts the potential market, which I
> cannot see how he could do
You may be right when talking about a single new CD.
But if Tom wants to prevents all further distribution of PerlFAQ on
CDs, then I think this would clearly have a market effect.
>Tom has allowed this market to change, knowingly. He cannot, therefore,
>come back and say that continued infringement affects his market,
Why not? After all the continued infringments *do* affect his market.
Why is the fact that Tom did not pursue the infringements earlier
relevant?
--
Fergus Henderson <fjh@cs.mu.oz.au> | "I have always known that the pursuit
WWW: <http://www.cs.mu.oz.au/~fjh> | of excellence is a lethal habit"
PGP: finger fjh@128.250.37.3 | -- the last words of T. S. Garp.
------------------------------
Date: 25 May 1998 14:56:57 GMT
From: fjh@cs.mu.oz.au (Fergus Henderson)
Subject: Re: GPL documentation == unspeakable evil
Message-Id: <6kc0rp$qt4$1@mulga.cs.mu.OZ.AU>
fantome/@/usa/./net (le Fantome) writes:
>On 24 May 1998 20:48:56 GMT, fjh@cs.mu.oz.au (Fergus Henderson) wrote:
>
>>Now, what if it turns out that the $100.07 dual package ends up
>>being a much better seller than the $100 CD full of random bits?
>>Is that still OK?
>>
>>If I put the PerlFAQ into a book with two chapters,
>>one being the PerlFAQ and the other being my own poetry
>>entitled "101 Monkeys", and sell it for $100, is that OK?
>>Of course, I'm also selling copies of "101 Monkeys" alone for $100.
>>So with the new book I'm just throwing in the PerlFAQ for free.
>>Is that OK?
>
>Again, I don't see a problem with this according to Tom's license.
So it seems that you agree that I can sell something containing PerlFAQ
(and some other stuff) for however much I want, just so long as I also sell
the same thing minus PerlFAQ for the same price.
If your interpretation of Tom's license were correct, then
the license would be toothless -- there's nothing that it would
disallow. Anytime you find someone that you think is violating
the license by selling PerlFAQ for a profit, that person can just
show you that they are offering the same product minus PerlFAQ
for the same price.
However, I very strongly doubt that a court would agree with your
interpretation, since it has been shown to be ridiculous.
Instead, I think a court would decide that the license does have
teeth, and those teeth could bite RedHat as well as the publishers
and distributors in the hypothetical examples we have been discussing.
If a distributor makes any profit from a book or CD containing
PerlFAQ, the court could very well rule that some portion of that
profit was due to the inclusion of PerlFAQ, and that the vendor
has thus violated Tom's license.
--
Fergus Henderson <fjh@cs.mu.oz.au> | "I have always known that the pursuit
WWW: <http://www.cs.mu.oz.au/~fjh> | of excellence is a lethal habit"
PGP: finger fjh@128.250.37.3 | -- the last words of T. S. Garp.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 25 May 1998 11:24:20 -0400
From: Birgitt Funk <ngouah@erols.com>
Subject: Re: GPL documentation == unspeakable evil
Message-Id: <35698D24.682C@erols.com>
David Kastrup wrote:
>
> Martin Schwartz <schwartz@cs.tu-berlin.de> writes:
>
> > In my opinion the destiny of wide spread free software projects is, that
> > they will be untied from the creators.
Why should that be ? Contrary I think if the major work of a project
was done by one to three persons and the project is released at no-cost
and with open source code, the authors deserve not only high respect for
what they are doing, but their authorship should always be respected.
Since when are people denied the right of recognition if they donate
huge chuncks of their work to the public ?
> > I even think that for democratic
> > reasons this has to be the case.
What is undemocratic about it ? Like being so democratic and social(istic)
that we don't respect private ownership anymore ? You should know where
this ends up, don't you ?
> > And for projects like perl, definitely
> > needing excellent documentations, I think that documentations cannot and
> > should not be treated different from the programs themselves. There is
> > obviously no problem with the way you write and manage the perldocs. But
> > there obviously is the feeling, that it's no good, if this task is more
> > or less bound to one person.
>
> This is not the problem, many projects remain bound to one person.
> What is a problem is when the task is irretrievably bound to one
> person. Then things can get ugly and out of hand.
>
Even this is no real problem. Like in other areas of life you can designate
other persons of your own trust who can replace your functions and inherit
your work, be a curator of it and continue to insure that what the founders
had in mind will be respected, continued and not misrepresented.
Tom Christiansen should not only write a much, much more precise license,
but also a will. He has the right to protect his work and he can designate
a group of people who he thinks understand what his intentions are.
This thread is vivid proof that sloppy licence language is doing "unspeakable
damage" to all of you, developers, software users, endusers.
Birgitt Funk
------------------------------
Date: 22 May 1998 17:44:32 -0700
From: Mark Hood <hood@eng.sun.com>
Subject: Re: GPL documentation == unspeakable evil
Message-Id: <f927m3drf2n.fsf@eng.sun.com>
Tom Christiansen <tchrist@mox.perl.com> writes:
> GPV'd documentation is not free -- in fact, it's extremely *ANTI*-free.
> It is a creeping poison. Support free documentation. Remove the GPV
> from all free documentation to restore it to freedom.
This attack on the FSF is ignorant, arrogant, and childish.
You walk into a newsgroup, gnu.misc.discuss, whose participants have a very
clear and distinct notion of "freedom" when it comes to information, and
then accuse us of "lying" when we point out that the Perl documentation
doesn't conform to this definition of freedom.
What exactly is the problem here? No one is trying to take your document to
modify and pass off as their own. The GNU project is trying to produce a
Perl document from scratch that can be freely modifiable without a
dependency upon a single creator. What does this have to do with your
rights as the author of a separate work?
The only think I can think of is that it offends your ego as the author of a
competing document. The wording on the Perl doc item of the GNU tasklist
may perhaps be justifiably described as unkind, insensitive, thoughtless,
and bad politics, but this temper tantrum has been far more unpleasant.
Why not take your ego energy and apply it to your document to ensure that
it's the one that everybody will use simply because it's the best?
-- Mark Hood
------------------------------
Date: 25 May 1998 16:05:35 GMT
From: randy@theory.uwinnipeg.ca (Randy Kobes)
Subject: Re: how to install CPAN modules (LWP)?
Message-Id: <slrn6mj63q.c68.randy@theory.uwinnipeg.ca>
On Mon, 25 May 1998 03:35:21 GMT, brz@hotmail.com <brz@hotmail.com> wrote:
>Basically I'm trying to install LWP on solaris as a regular user
>(not root) and couldn't get it to work. I ran
>perl Makefile.PL PREFIX=/export/home/brz
>make
>make test
>make install
>
>Everything was ok but at the last line I got an error:
>
>sh: /export/home/brz/lib/perl5/sun4-solaris/5.003/perllocal.pod: cannot create
>*** Error code 1
>make: Fatal error: Command failed for target `doc_site_install'
Hi,
I've seen this before - what worked then is to create the directory,
in your case, /export/home/brz/lib/perl5/sun4-solaris/5.003, before
the install. Apparently the installation procedure doesn't create this
directory if it doesn't initially exist.
>
>I thought it's not a huge deal if I couldn't get documentation but...
If you also want to install the man pages in your private directory,
then as well as adding PREFIX=/my/perl to 'perl Makefile.PL', also add
INSTALLMAN1DIR=/my/perl/man/man1 and INSTALLMAN3DIR=/my/perl/man/man3
to 'perl Makefile.PL'.
>I couldn't get the test programs to work!
>I got this error:
>
>Can't locate LWP/UserAgent.pm in @INC at v.pl line 5.
>BEGIN failed--compilation aborted at v.pl line 5.
>
>and my program v.pl looks like:
>
>#!/usr/local/bin/perl
>BEGIN {
> unshift(@INC, "/export/home/brz/lib");
>}
Perhaps /export/home/brz/lib/site_perl would work?
There may be other problems with this, though - the latest libwww (5.33)
requires perl 5.004, which may have fixed some bugs from the older
libwww version you're trying to install. Upgrading to 5.004, as well as
eliminating some security risks, will also allow you to install the
latest libwww.
Best regards,
Randy Kobes
Physics Department Phone: (204) 786-9399
University of Winnipeg Fax: (204) 774-4134
Winnipeg, Manitoba R3B 2E9 e-mail: randy@theory.uwinnipeg.ca
Canada http://theory.uwinnipeg.ca/
------------------------------
Date: 25 May 1998 14:24:49 GMT
From: Anselm Lingnau <lingnau@tm.informatik.uni-frankfurt.de>
Subject: Re: More double standards out of the FSF
Message-Id: <6kbuvh$2mlc$1@grapool30.rz.uni-frankfurt.de>
In article <u1hyavuxpza.fsf@ten-thousand-dollar-bill.MIT.EDU>,
Thomas Bushnell, n/BSG <tb@mit.edu> wrote:
> Now, in documenting my new application, I need to document Perl, and
> for that I want to use large portions of the perlfaq text. Now, I
> certainly want to acknowledge the authorship of the text, and I'll be
> happy to give people a copy of the unmodified text too.
>
> But the copyright on perlfaq prohibits me from distributing the
> modified perlfaq.
You could presumably always ask Tom to give you special permission to
include the (possibly modified) perlfaq. If your project is commercial,
he may want to have a cut of the profit, which under the circumstances
seems only fair. If your project doesn't involve money, chances are
he'll let you use his stuff even so, if you say it's his originally etc.
Anselm
--
Anselm Lingnau ......................... lingnau@tm.informatik.uni-frankfurt.de
Just because NT is bulky, slow, overhyped, overpriced, and late doesn't mean
it's well-designed. It just means it's bulky, slow, overhyped, overpriced,
and late. --- Robert Sanders
------------------------------
Date: 24 May 1998 20:23:33 GMT
From: gabor@vmunix.com (Gabor)
Subject: Re: Need a "word-count"
Message-Id: <slrn6mh0qs.61v.gabor@vnode.vmunix.com>
In comp.lang.perl.misc, Andreas <andreas@gson.com> wrote :
# I need to figure out a way to search a file for a word and return the
# number of times the word appears in the file. It sounds simple enough to
# me, but I just can't get anything to work. Anybody has any suggestions?
$cnt = 0;
while(<DATA>) {
$cnt += s/(word)/$1/g;
}
print $cnt;
__END__
and a word to the wise whose word
is is the good word from he word of the word wise
and some of the words are to heed because they are words
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 25 May 1998 10:57:55 -0400
From: Ala Qumsieh <aqumsieh@matrox.com>
Subject: Re: Perl terminology
Message-Id: <356986F3.62957523@matrox.com>
> Tom Christiansen wrote:
> >
> > [courtesy cc of this posting sent to cited author via email]
> >
> > In comp.lang.perl.misc,
> > Ala Qumsieh <aqumsieh@matrox.com> writes:
> > :What I liked most about it is the abundance of examples, something the
> > :Camel Book lacks.
> >
> > I don't see why people keep saying this. I see zillions of examples
> > in the Camel. In fact, it's hard to open to a page without
> > indented code examples.
I agree, but for some reason, some of the examples are not very well
explained (to me atleast). A brief description of the example would greatly
help.
> >
> > :Unfortunately though, I have discovered WAY too many
> > :mistakes in the example code they present.
> >
> > Yup.
I forgot to mention the pointless, (badly positioned), irrelevant pictures
;-)
> >
> > :But, overall, I think it's a good
> > :reference.
> >
> > I guess I'm confused about what a "reference book" is.
> >
Don't misunderstand me. It's a GOOD reference. It is NOT the BEST reference
;-)
NOTHING comes close to the Camel book and it's alphabetical listing of the
functions!
--
Ala Qumsieh | No .. not just another
ASIC Design Engineer | Perl Hacker!!!!!
Matrox Graphics Inc. |
Montreal, Quebec | (Not yet!)
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 25 May 1998 16:32:26 GMT
From: jcoop-no-spam@interlog.com (coop)
Subject: Possible to "skip" a record?
Message-Id: <35699b30.277073@news.interlog.com>
Hi,
I'm writing a small application that will parse a number of HTML
files. Files are similar in layout, with minor variations. I am
looping through the file line by line and grabbing what I want. Is it
possible, say, when I get to a section where I want to process a
number of lines, I can skip records and process the line. For
example:
while <FILE>
if (/<TITLE>/) {
# grab title
}
if (/Date/) {
# grab date
}
if (/Address/) {
# get first line of address
# go to next line in file and get second line, don't want
# to say "next" here as it will take me back up to "while" at
# beginning of program?
}
Any suggestions? Thanks in advance.
Coop
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 25 May 1998 16:35:11 GMT
From: pudge@pobox.com (Chris Nandor)
Subject: Re: Quiet summary
Message-Id: <pudge-2505981229370001@dynamic265.ply.adelphia.net>
In article <m2d8d2hazo.fsf@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de>,
David Kastrup <dak@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de> wrote:
# pudge@pobox.com (Chris Nandor) writes:
#
# > Yes, they did. The word "free" when applied to software has meant
# > "without cost" since long before RMS came around to the picture.
#
# Objection. RMS came around to the picture when the word "free" when
# applied to software started meaning "without cost" instead of
# "non-disclosed". He stopped working at the MIT exactly because of
# that, and started the FSF.
Apologies; I meant that it meant "without cost" when applied to software
before _the FSF_ came along.
--
Chris Nandor mailto:pudge@pobox.com http://pudge.net/
%PGPKey = ('B76E72AD', [1024, '0824090B CE73CA10 1FF77F13 8180B6B6'])
------------------------------
Date: 25 May 1998 17:39:29 +0200
From: Giuseppe Vacanti <gvacanti@astro.estec.esa.nl>
Subject: shared objects and embedded Perl
Message-Id: <lhbtsmqs0e.fsf@sapc47.estec.esa.nl>
Hello.
I have the following problem, perhaps caused by my lack of
understanding of how shared libraries work. Perhaps somebody has some
words of wisdom on the subject.
I need to give a longish explanation becfore I can ask my question.
I have written a Perl package on top of a C library (call it
libtopc.a) that allows me to access FITS files (a format used by
astronomers). The C library depends on a number of other libraries
(call them libd.a and libe.a).
In my Makefile.PL I have:
LIBS => ["-ltopc -ld -le"] (A)
All is well, and a fairly large Perl shared object is built and can be
used.
If I say
LIBS => ["-ltopc"] (B)
the package is built ok, but it doesn't load because there are
unresolved symbols (to be found in libd.a and libe.a). This I
understand. I also understand that if libd.a and libe.a are not shared
libraries I cannot persuade perl to look for missing symbols there at
run time (is this actually true?).
Now the fun part. I also have an application with and embedded Perl
interpreter. This application also requires libd.a and libe.a to build
(these two libraries and the application are written in C++). I want
to feed the embedded interpreter a script that makes use of the Perl
package I wrote.
If I use the Perl package built with (A), then at run time a number of
static C++ objects are instantiated twice at the same address. The
application and the script run ok, but when the application shuts down
two destructors are called on the same object and I get a segmentation
fault.
If instead I build the package with (B), all is well.
Can anybody make me understand what's happening here? Why is the
script run by the embedded interpreter trying to initialize static C++
objects in the same name space as the application that runs it?
With many thanks.
Giuseppe Vacanti XMM Science Operations Team
Tel: ++31-71-5654175 Astrophysics Division
European Space Agency
------------------------------
Date: 25 May 1998 14:24:48 GMT
From: mike@stok.co.uk (Mike Stok)
Subject: Re: Shell to perl
Message-Id: <6kbuvg$4v3@news-central.tiac.net>
If you're trying to compress or uncompress a stream of data using the
algorithm used by zcat then you might try a module from CPAN. CPAN is the
comprehensive perl archive network, and one way to reach it is by
following the CPAN link at http://www.perl.com (or you can use ftp to
check the master site on ftp.funet.fi under /pub/languages/perl/CPAN where
you can find a list of mirror sites for one that's nearby in network
terms)
One of the modules available is Compress::Zlib (under
.../modules/by-category/17_Archiving_and_Compression/ on CPAN) whose
documentation includes:
DESCRIPTION
The Compress::Zlib module provides a Perl interface to the
zlib compression library (see the AUTHORS entry elsewhere
in this document for details about where to get zlib).
Most of the functionality provided by zlib is available in
Compress::Zlib.
The module can be split into two general areas of
functionality, namely in-memory compression/decompression
and read/write access to gzip files. Each of these areas
will be discussed separately below.
The module's README file describes what's required on your system and how
to build, test and install the module.
Hope this helps,
Mike
In article <3569773a.0@news.cyberenet.net>,
Fred Forester <fforest@cyberenet.net> wrote:
>Sorry, which FAQ?
>
>I did look at some FAQ's but could find how to convert
>gzcat to perl.
>
--
mike@stok.co.uk | The "`Stok' disclaimers" apply.
http://www.stok.co.uk/~mike/ | PGP fingerprint FE 56 4D 7D 42 1A 4A 9C
http://www.tiac.net/users/stok/ | 65 F3 3F 1D 27 22 B7 41
stok@colltech.com | Collective Technologies (work)
------------------------------
Date: 25 May 1998 14:27:50 GMT
From: Zenin <zenin@bawdycaste.org>
Subject: Re: Shell to perl
Message-Id: <896106912.72976@thrush.omix.com>
Fred Forester <fforest@cyberenet.net> wrote:
: I did look at some FAQ's but could find how to convert
: gzcat to perl.
Check out the Compress::Zlib module, or just use system() or
a piped open() to call gzcat/gzip.
--
-Zenin
zenin@archive.rhps.org
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 25 May 1998 11:30:28 -0500
From: Cameron Dorey <camerond@mail.uca.edu>
To: Gurusamy Sarathy <gsar@engin.umich.edu>
Subject: Re: Win32 NT Perl Wrapper
Message-Id: <35699CA4.B1158359@mail.uca.edu>
[cc'd to gs]
Okay, I guess we're talking apples and oranges here, or, at least since
I am a chemist and not a computer scientist, I just took M$'s definition
of "associate" in Win95 Explorer to be a general one. For my scripts, I
develop them using the command line "perl script.pl" (-w is in the #!
line, I didn't forget it) because it is faster just to switch between
windows of my editor and the DOS box, but if I have one to use over and
over again, I just double-click it and run any input through the DOS box
which pops up. So, thoroughness vs. convenience (TIMTWOWDI, yes?).
And, to further develop your relationships:
Gurusamy Sarathy wrote:
>
> [snip]
> Enough silliness. :-) Here's a thought:
>
> command-line vs mouse == spoken-word vs gesture == song vs pantomime
command line vs mouse == O.E.D. vs Webster's Abridged College
Dictionary
(everything's not in there, but what is there can often be retrieved
faster)
Cameron
camerond@mail.uca.edu
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 25 May 1998 12:10:51 -0400
From: Jake Baillie <jake@www.mtweb.net>
Subject: Zip code searching with perl
Message-Id: <Pine.LNX.3.95.980525120713.872A-100000@www.mtweb.net>
Good Day,
I am a relatively new perl programmer looking for some help. Right now, I
have written a perl script that will post a flatfile database to a web
page.
I would like to insitute a function where it would be able to search by
zip code, i.e., if I gave it a zip code of 56049 it would find the nearest
zip code up or down. I can't seem to find out how to do this. Does anybody
have any ideas on a search routine for this?
If so, could you do me a big favor and drop me a line at jake@marinar.com
Thank you,
Jake Baillie
Marinar Communications
------------------------------
Date: 8 Mar 97 21:33:47 GMT (Last modified)
From: Perl-Request@ruby.oce.orst.edu (Perl-Users-Digest Admin)
Subject: Digest Administrivia (Last modified: 8 Mar 97)
Message-Id: <null>
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------------------------------
End of Perl-Users Digest V8 Issue 2715
**************************************
