[9091] in Perl-Users-Digest
Perl-Users Digest, Issue: 2709 Volume: 8
daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (Perl-Users Digest)
Sun May 24 15:07:31 1998
Date: Sun, 24 May 98 12:00:29 -0700
From: Perl-Users Digest <Perl-Users-Request@ruby.OCE.ORST.EDU>
To: Perl-Users@ruby.OCE.ORST.EDU (Perl-Users Digest)
Perl-Users Digest Sun, 24 May 1998 Volume: 8 Number: 2709
Today's topics:
Accessing disk label information <buck88@execpc.com>
Re: Clearly define "free software" (le Fanttme)
Re: Clearly define "free software" (Ilya Zakharevich)
Re: Clearly define "free software" <hp@pobox.com>
Re: Clearly define "free software" <hp@pobox.com>
Re: GNU attacks on the open software community (le Fanttme)
Re: GNU attacks on the open software community <worrall+unet@cs.bris.ac.uk>
Re: Help needed - Will pay. <jhoglund@mirage.skypoint.net>
How to create nonblocking socket in Perl ? (Sun Qinghe)
Re: http authentication <bowlin@sirius.com>
Re: http authentication <choirboy@rocketmail.com>
Re: http authentication <rootbeer@teleport.com>
Need a "word-count" <andreas@gson.com>
Re: Need a "word-count" <rootbeer@teleport.com>
Re: news/mail posting <dformosa@st.nepean.uws.edu.au>
Re: Perl 5.005_xxx (Bbirthisel)
Re: Perl 5.005_xxx <webmaster@fccjmail.fccj.org>
Re: Perl 5.005_xxx <merlyn@stonehenge.com>
Re: Perl 5.005_xxx (I R A Aggie)
Perl under Windows <Johannes@young-world.com>
Re: Perl under Windows <rootbeer@teleport.com>
Re: perl5 <=> perl4 incompatibility ? <rootbeer@teleport.com>
Perl5.004_6x eq Perl5.005(preview/alpha?) <webmaster@fccjmail.fccj.org>
Re: Problems with "print" <rootbeer@teleport.com>
Re: Quiet summary <davew@gatsby.u-net.com>
Re: Quiet summary (Chris Nandor)
Re: Quiet summary (John Stanley)
Re: Search and Replacing a double-quote character fastmethod@mindless.com
Socket ERROR. Please help. <publicweb@adar.net>
Re: Tom Christiansen attacks the free software communit fredrik@pythonware.com
Re: Upload File via Web <bowlin@sirius.com>
Re: Why NOT crypt??? <dformosa@st.nepean.uws.edu.au>
Digest Administrivia (Last modified: 8 Mar 97) (Perl-Users-Digest Admin)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Sun, 24 May 1998 13:34:25 -0500
From: buck88 <buck88@execpc.com>
Subject: Accessing disk label information
Message-Id: <6k9or9$cs8@newsops.execpc.com>
Are there disk labels (i.e. naming the disk after you have
formatted it) in Linux (or some form of identification) the
same way that there is in DOS and most importantly, how do I
get this information for a perl script that I am writing? I
have written a program that will catalog the numerous zip
disks that I have, listing what files are on what disk. The
only problem is that I can't seem to figure out a way for
the perl program to tell which disk it is looking at. But I
remember from my old DOS days that when you format a disk,
you can give it a label. If there is some unique
identification information (such as a disk label or
something) that I can get from the disk, this would make my
life a whole lot easier. I have been using a small "disk id"
file that I make that the perl program looks for but but
using a disk label sounded like a interesting way to
accomplish this task.
Thank for any help that you can offer.
--
buck88@execpc.com
http://netnet.net/~vpetinga
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 24 May 1998 13:56:49 GMT
From: fantome/@/usa/./net (le Fanttme)
Subject: Re: Clearly define "free software"
Message-Id: <486C2DE85F95666A.8E0B4B703F8F06DF.1D0386AF8A444981@library-proxy.airnews.net>
On Sun, 24 May 1998 04:05:34 GMT, robert havoc pennington
<hp@pobox.com> wrote:
>fantome/@/usa/./net (le Fanttme) writes:
>> I wrote:
>> >I agree the results may not be perfect. My problem with your position
>> >is that I am not sure anyone else has done any better. All the other
>> >major licenses have problems of ambiguity and practice as well.
>>
>> I think the NPL/MPL does so. It does have its flaws by potentially
>> giving too much to the owner of the NPL/MPL package, but I think that
>> initial owners of packages may be due some special rights.
>>
>> It will take time to see how well it works, but by permitting the
>> original source code to be protected similarly to the GNU GPL (in that
>> modifications to the original source are to remain under the original
>> license) yet allows clean cooperation with non-open software (in that
>> additions can be made through alternate licenses if they are in
>> separate files; even better, the modifications in the original source
>> to support those additions are under the original license, exposing
>> the API of the modifications themselves).
>Well, time will tell. I have a couple worries about the NPL/MPL:
>
>1) It is not GPL compatible and not likely to become as much of a
> standard
As I have said before, this incompatibility really doesn't have
anything to do with the NPL/MPL, but with the viral nature of the GNU
GPL. I see the incompatibility with the GNU GPL as a feature, not a
bug.
>2) Its copyleft has no teeth, because it's too easy to put things in
> a separate file
To a point. Remember that they have noted that separating the Original
Source into multiple files requires that both files be considered
Original Source. I think that this is a significant limitation.
>I would prefer a license that was NPL/MPL-like only with respect to
>other free licenses, and GPL-like with respect to proprietary
>licenses.
This is where we differ. I *want* the ability to use proprietary
libraries of my choice if I think a useful program would result. See,
my source isn't limited at all because it requires someone use a
proprietary library to be able to actually use/compile it -- because
my source is still open, and others can modify the source to work with
other proprietary or open libraries as they choose.
-f
--
austin ziegler * fantome*@*vnet*.*net * http://fantome.vnet.net/
---------------* aziegler*@*vcela*.*com * -------------------------
Remove the stars to email me * Ni bhionn an rath ach
my words my opinions my ideas * mar a mbionn an smacht
-- I Argue Ideas, Not Beliefs: Give Up Your Dogma --
------------------------------
Date: 24 May 1998 18:05:11 GMT
From: ilya@math.ohio-state.edu (Ilya Zakharevich)
Subject: Re: Clearly define "free software"
Message-Id: <6k9ngn$bij$1@mathserv.mps.ohio-state.edu>
[A complimentary Cc of this posting was sent to robert havoc pennington
<hp@pobox.com>],
who wrote in article <wsnvhqww4z9.fsf@harper.uchicago.edu>:
> ilya@math.ohio-state.edu (Ilya Zakharevich) writes:
> >
> > Same here. This is was a frightening testcase: I distribute
> > readline.dll for a particular platform.
> >
> > *One cannot dynalink a propriatory program with this DLL.*
> >
> > Note that this is exactly look-and-feel copyrighting, since to link a
> > program with a DLL requires only informing the linker the name of DLL
> > and the name of the export point of this DLL. Thus prohibiting
> > someone to link with this DLL boils down (though only via technical
> > details of linking) to prohibiting *interface*.
> >
>
> You are mistaken. A license can only prohibit linking with a
> particular implementation of the interface. The interface itself is
> not prohibited; you are free to implement it yourself and link it
> with whatever you want.
(Most of the text preserved, since all relevant.)
On all the platforms I know the details of, the dynamic linking is a
linking with a *name*. You cannot link with a "particular
implementation". You link with a library named "BLAH", the library
itself does not need to be even present at the time of linking (all
what is needed by linker is the name of the library, and names of
entry points).
Thus my point stands (though through technicalities of dynalinking
architecture).
Ilya
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 24 May 1998 18:27:37 GMT
From: robert havoc pennington <hp@pobox.com>
Subject: Re: Clearly define "free software"
Message-Id: <wsnvhqvv812.fsf@harper.uchicago.edu>
fantome/@/usa/./net (le Fanttme) writes:
> >1) It is not GPL compatible and not likely to become as much of a
> > standard
>
> As I have said before, this incompatibility really doesn't have
> anything to do with the NPL/MPL, but with the viral nature of the GNU
> GPL. I see the incompatibility with the GNU GPL as a feature, not a
> bug.
>
I don't care which license is at "fault." I'm concerned with the
overall impact on the amount of free software available.
> >2) Its copyleft has no teeth, because it's too easy to put things in
> > a separate file
>
> To a point. Remember that they have noted that separating the Original
> Source into multiple files requires that both files be considered
> Original Source. I think that this is a significant limitation.
>
It's a significant limitation but also significantly less than GPL
provides.
> >I would prefer a license that was NPL/MPL-like only with respect to
> >other free licenses, and GPL-like with respect to proprietary
> >licenses.
>
> This is where we differ. I *want* the ability to use proprietary
> libraries of my choice if I think a useful program would result. See,
> my source isn't limited at all because it requires someone use a
> proprietary library to be able to actually use/compile it -- because
> my source is still open, and others can modify the source to work with
> other proprietary or open libraries as they choose.
>
Yep. But if I'm writing the code on my own time, I don't want you to
have that ability, because I think restricting it will encourage
people to write more free software. Simple as that. It's my code and
my choice. For your code, you are free to use the license you like.
FUT g.m.d only.
Havoc Pennington ==== http://pobox.com/~hp
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 24 May 1998 18:32:42 GMT
From: robert havoc pennington <hp@pobox.com>
Subject: Re: Clearly define "free software"
Message-Id: <wsnu36fv7sl.fsf@harper.uchicago.edu>
ilya@math.ohio-state.edu (Ilya Zakharevich) writes:
> [A complimentary Cc of this posting was sent to robert havoc pennington
> <hp@pobox.com>],
> who wrote in article <wsnvhqww4z9.fsf@harper.uchicago.edu>:
> >
> > You are mistaken. A license can only prohibit linking with a
> > particular implementation of the interface. The interface itself is
> > not prohibited; you are free to implement it yourself and link it
> > with whatever you want.
>
> (Most of the text preserved, since all relevant.)
>
> On all the platforms I know the details of, the dynamic linking is a
> linking with a *name*. You cannot link with a "particular
> implementation". You link with a library named "BLAH", the library
> itself does not need to be even present at the time of linking (all
> what is needed by linker is the name of the library, and names of
> entry points).
>
What the FSF actually says about this, I believe, is that if there is
another implementation available then linking does not make your
program a derived work, but if the GPL library is the only
implementation, then linking can only be considered linking *with that
implementation* and thus you are creating a derived work and must GPL
your program.
Of course the LGPL is generally used for FSF libraries, with a few
exceptions, so it doesn't matter.
In any case, it is clear that you can write and link with a clone of a
GPL library, and not have to GPL your code. Thus there is no look and
feel copyright as you originally stated, since you can copy the
interface with impunity.
Havoc Pennington ==== http://pobox.com/~hp
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 24 May 1998 13:18:42 GMT
From: fantome/@/usa/./net (le Fanttme)
Subject: Re: GNU attacks on the open software community
Message-Id: <F2D7984E4DB725F1.87B07BEB44379C61.64FD10FE05C9A1B6@library-proxy.airnews.net>
On 23 May 1998 16:16:46 GMT, fjh@cs.mu.oz.au (Fergus Henderson) wrote:
>>Rather, he would have to take his costs for producing the
>>number of books he put together and determine the price of the book.
>
>Hang on, he's not going to be selling this book at cost price.
>After all, he wants to make a profit, so that he can donate some
>to the FSF, feed his family, etc. etc.
If the core of his book is the PerlFAQ, he cannot sell it except at
cost. If he sells it for profit, he has to contact Tom C. to negotiate
royalties or permission.
>>The way that I'm reading Tom's restriction, the publisher could not
>>charge more than $15.00 if it only cost $15.00 to publish the book.
>
>This reading would forbid distribution by RedHat and the like,
>since they make a profit.
Again, I can't tell if you're being deliberately obtuse or you just
don't get it. The percentage of the PerlFAQ against the remainder of
the CD is significant in this -- RedHat just merely can't make a
profit on the minuscule percentage of the cost of the CD that is
reflected by the PerlFAQ.
>>Therein lies the difference. It's like a CD publisher suggesting that
>>their CD will cost $20, even though it only cost them $6 to create the
>>CD -- and if they are merely aggregators for the data on the CD.
>>(RedHat is not a mere aggregator; they have added value to the whole
>>process by writing their installation software and things like that.
>
>Neither is our hypothetical publisher a "mere aggregator";
>he's adding value by selling it in book form, not to mention
>the added value of a colorful cover and an exciting blurb.
The law would likely disagree with you, for many of the same reasons I
have described in other posts.
>>-- and that price is probably not affected by the presence of the
>>PerlFAQ but of other packages.)
>
>"Probably". Are you confident that you can prove that in a court of
>law? What about when the plaintiff wheels out customers who will
>swear under oath that they wouldn't have bought the CD if it didn't
>have the PerlFAQ?
Just the PerlFAQ, not the distribution, right? I find it highly
unlikely that the plaintiff would be able to do so. Based on something
that Abigail said in a post I read recently, the PerlFAQ is somewhere
between 0k and 550k -- out of 640Mb. If we assume about a 250kb file
(I don't know the exact size of the PerlFAQ these days), that's
0.0390625% of the size and cost of the CD. The aggregator would be
quite welcome to add other things which take up more space and permit
greater profit.
A book based entirely on the PerlFAQ (100%) wouldn't be able to make a
profit as such. If it was 50% based on the PerlFAQ and 50% based on
new material (and the two were clearly delineated as such), then the
publisher would be able to make a profit on the 50% non-PerlFAQ.
It's really not that hard to figure out, Mr. Henderson.
-f
--
austin ziegler * fantome*@*vnet*.*net * http://fantome.vnet.net/
---------------* aziegler*@*vcela*.*com * -------------------------
Remove the stars to email me * Ni bhionn an rath ach
my words my opinions my ideas * mar a mbionn an smacht
-- I Argue Ideas, Not Beliefs: Give Up Your Dogma --
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 24 May 1998 16:59:25 GMT
From: Adam Worrall <worrall+unet@cs.bris.ac.uk>
Subject: Re: GNU attacks on the open software community
Message-Id: <qpd8d31u6q.fsf@maxx.compsci.bris.ac.uk>
>>>>> "Michael" == Michael Schuerig <schuerig@acm.org> writes:
Michael> How about a script that patches the addendum into the original
Michael> documentation on the fly...
The various addenda (sp?) could be provided as a small Perl program,
written by the addenda authors, with an option being presented at
install time to apply it.
As I see it, this means that the original docs are still being
distributed, and the changes are made by the end-user, for _personal
use_, and so everyone is happy.
Maybe.
- Adam
--
Adam.Worrall@bristol.ac.uk http://www.cs.bris.ac.uk/~worrall/
The London Mathematical Society http://www.lms.ac.uk/
------------------------------
Date: 24 May 1998 18:50:46 GMT
From: Jamie Hoglund <jhoglund@mirage.skypoint.net>
Subject: Re: Help needed - Will pay.
Message-Id: <6k9q66$ifp$5@shadow.skypoint.net>
Tom Phoenix <rootbeer@teleport.com> wrote:
: Thank you. You've made my day! But for even more fun, make the password
: be the word "password". :-)
Sounds to me like one of those things where the password is just there to
make the members feel special that they're privy to a "protected site".
More marketing than anything.
People are funny animals. :-)
Jamie
--
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
jamie@lecart.com
http://www.lecart.com
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 24 May 1998 18:48:20 GMT
From: sunq@ERE.UMontreal.CA (Sun Qinghe)
Subject: How to create nonblocking socket in Perl ?
Message-Id: <UXZ91.66$A3.394739@carnaval.risq.qc.ca>
Hi,
I want to modify the sample client program in Programming Perl so that
I can set timeout for connect(). i.e., if the server doesn't respond in
(say) 4 seconds, then I will give up the connection to avoid deadlock.
Any help would be really appreciated.
Sun
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 24 May 1998 09:11:10 -0700
From: Jim Bowlin <bowlin@sirius.com>
To: Bryan Davis <choirboy@rocketmail.com>
Subject: Re: http authentication
Message-Id: <3568469E.D9E07862@sirius.com>
Bryan Davis wrote:
>
> I am running IIS 4 on my NT server. Is there a way through perl (by sending
> some http header or something) to authenticate a user on the web server?
I use the following code:
use CGI;
my $user = remote_user() or do {
print "Status: 401 Unauthorized\n";
print "Www-Authenticate: basic realm= qq("your realm name here"\n\n);
exit;
};
This uses the built-in NT password protection. One quirk I have noticed
is that protected Perl scripts must be in unprotected directories.
HTH -- Jim Bowlin
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 24 May 1998 13:11:00 -0500
From: "Bryan" <choirboy@rocketmail.com>
Subject: Re: http authentication
Message-Id: <6k9o0a$fug@sjx-ixn4.ix.netcom.com>
Thanks for your reply, I didn't fully explain my problem though. I have an
unusual authentication problem. Here's my situation:
We have a database of usernames and passwords. We have set up a login page
that is insecure. The rest of the site should require a username and
password to access. This password should be unkown to the actual users so
they can't bypass the login screen by just typing the address of a page.
When the login screen determines (from the user database) that the user is
valid, it needs to "forward" the user into the site by authenticating them
with the "unkown" password. Because the password is unkown, the only way to
get into the site will be through the login screen.
Is there any way to make a perl script, ASP, or some other utility behave
like this? Thanks in advance for any assistance.
Jim Bowlin wrote in message <3568469E.D9E07862@sirius.com>...
>Bryan Davis wrote:
>>
>> I am running IIS 4 on my NT server. Is there a way through perl (by
sending
>> some http header or something) to authenticate a user on the web server?
>
>I use the following code:
>
>use CGI;
>
>my $user = remote_user() or do {
> print "Status: 401 Unauthorized\n";
> print "Www-Authenticate: basic realm= qq("your realm name here"\n\n);
> exit;
>};
>
>This uses the built-in NT password protection. One quirk I have noticed
>is that protected Perl scripts must be in unprotected directories.
>
>HTH -- Jim Bowlin
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 24 May 1998 18:40:28 GMT
From: Tom Phoenix <rootbeer@teleport.com>
To: Bryan <choirboy@rocketmail.com>
Subject: Re: http authentication
Message-Id: <Pine.GSO.3.96.980524113628.4745I-100000@user2.teleport.com>
On Sun, 24 May 1998, Bryan wrote:
> Because the password is unkown, the only way to
> get into the site will be through the login screen.
This sounds a lot like one of Randal's Web Techniques columns, called
"front door, please!". Maybe you could modify it to do what you need.
http://www.stonehenge.com/merlyn/WebTechniques/
Hope this helps!
--
Tom Phoenix Perl Training and Hacking Esperanto
Randal Schwartz Case: http://www.rahul.net/jeffrey/ovs/
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 24 May 1998 14:17:31 -0500
From: Andreas <andreas@gson.com>
Subject: Need a "word-count"
Message-Id: <3568723A.8FEF34BB@gson.com>
I need to figure out a way to search a file for a word and return the
number of times the word appears in the file. It sounds simple enough to
me, but I just can't get anything to work. Anybody has any suggestions?
Please respond through e-mail.
- Andreas Gustafsson
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 24 May 1998 18:35:59 GMT
From: Tom Phoenix <rootbeer@teleport.com>
To: Andreas <andreas@gson.com>
Subject: Re: Need a "word-count"
Message-Id: <Pine.GSO.3.96.980524113453.4745H-100000@user2.teleport.com>
On Sun, 24 May 1998, Andreas wrote:
> I need to figure out a way to search a file for a word and return the
> number of times the word appears in the file. It sounds simple enough to
> me, but I just can't get anything to work.
What have you tried that hasn't worked? But there's a good example of
doing something similar to this in the Llama book. Hope this helps!
--
Tom Phoenix Perl Training and Hacking Esperanto
Randal Schwartz Case: http://www.rahul.net/jeffrey/ovs/
------------------------------
Date: 24 May 1998 14:39:34 GMT
From: ? the platypus {aka David Formosa} <dformosa@st.nepean.uws.edu.au>
Subject: Re: news/mail posting
Message-Id: <896020773.808618@cabal>
In <Pine.GSO.3.96.980522081521.29577T-100000@user2.teleport.com> Tom Phoenix <rootbeer@teleport.com> writes:
>On Fri, 22 May 1998, Pete Moss wrote:
>> How do you interact with the news server (innd)
>I use a module. :-) See Net::NNTP from CPAN. Hope this helps!
I use the module News::NNTPClient what is the diffrence between these
two?
--
I'm a perl programer; if you need perl programing, hire me.
Please excuse my spelling as I suffer from agraphia; see the url. Support NoCeM
http://www.cit.nepean.uws.edu.au/~dformosa/Spelling.html http://www.cm.org/
I'm sorry but I just don't consider 'because its yucky' a convincing argument
------------------------------
Date: 24 May 1998 13:46:51 GMT
From: bbirthisel@aol.com (Bbirthisel)
Subject: Re: Perl 5.005_xxx
Message-Id: <1998052413465100.JAA18958@ladder01.news.aol.com>
Hi David:
>Tom Phoenix wrote:
>
>> I'd tell you where to find a test version, but no one should try
>> one of the test versions who can't find it. :-)
>Give the man a break - if he wants to try a test version, giving him a URL
>would be real easy, and save him lots of fooling around, trying to find it.
>Or is this perhaps an initiation ceremony of sorts. Find the test versions,
>become a man.
I have to agree with Tom on this one. The test versions require that the
user be prepared to build perl, apply patches, monitor p5p for current
patches, truly understand what "beta" means, etc. Those are the "marks
of adulthood" required. It doesn't take much research to FIND the test
versions. It is reasonable to expect anyone who could use them in the
current form to do that much.
-bill
Making computers work in Manufacturing for over 25 years (inquiries welcome)
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 24 May 1998 14:11:11 GMT
From: Bill 'Sneex' Jones <webmaster@fccjmail.fccj.org>
Subject: Re: Perl 5.005_xxx
Message-Id: <35682ABE.C514449E@fccjmail.fccj.org>
Bbirthisel wrote:
>
> I have to agree with Tom on this one. The test versions require that the
> user be prepared to build perl, apply patches, monitor p5p for current
> patches, truly understand what "beta" means, etc. Those are the "marks
> of adulthood" required. It doesn't take much research to FIND the test
> versions. It is reasonable to expect anyone who could use them in the
> current form to do that much.
I am beginning to be sorry I asked. :-)
Wouldn't want to be considered an adult yet ;-)
-Sneex-
"Trust no one over 30, er 35, I mean..."
____________________________________________________________________________
Bill Jones | FCCJ Webmaster | Voice 1-904-632-3089 | Fax 1-904-632-3007
Florida Community College at Jacksonville | 501 W. State St. | Jax, FL 32202
mailto:webmaster@fccjmail.fccj.org | http://webmaster.fccj.org/Webmaster
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 24 May 1998 14:45:58 GMT
From: Randal Schwartz <merlyn@stonehenge.com>
Subject: Re: Perl 5.005_xxx
Message-Id: <8chg2fafrx.fsf@gadget.cscaper.com>
>>>>> "Bbirthisel" == Bbirthisel <bbirthisel@aol.com> writes:
Bbirthisel> I have to agree with Tom on this one. The test versions
Bbirthisel> require that the user be prepared to build perl, apply
Bbirthisel> patches, monitor p5p for current patches, truly understand
Bbirthisel> what "beta" means, etc. Those are the "marks of adulthood"
Bbirthisel> required. It doesn't take much research to FIND the test
Bbirthisel> versions. It is reasonable to expect anyone who could use
Bbirthisel> them in the current form to do that much.
For what it's worth, I also support Tom on this one.
I find it even odder that "sneex" was asking, since he has attempted
to answer dozens of questions here and on CIWAC, with varying degrees
of success, often needed correction from actual experts. I would
presume that this is one question he would be answering, and not
asking. <sigh> Therefore, allow this to be one more datapoint about
how many grains of salt to take sneex's answers with.
print "Just another Perl hacker," # but not what the media calls "hacker!" :-)
## legal fund: $20,990.69 collected, $186,159.85 spent; just 100 more days
## before I go to *prison* for 90 days; email fund@stonehenge.com for details
--
Name: Randal L. Schwartz / Stonehenge Consulting Services (503)777-0095
Keywords: Perl training, UNIX[tm] consulting, video production, skiing, flying
Email: <merlyn@stonehenge.com> Snail: (Call) PGP-Key: (finger merlyn@teleport.com)
Web: <A HREF="http://www.stonehenge.com/merlyn/">My Home Page!</A>
Quote: "I'm telling you, if I could have five lines in my .sig, I would!" -- me
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 24 May 1998 14:50:39 -0500
From: fl_aggie@thepentagon.com (I R A Aggie)
Subject: Re: Perl 5.005_xxx
Message-Id: <fl_aggie-2405981450390001@aggie.coaps.fsu.edu>
In article <ltpvh4qmpr.fsf@asfast.com>, Lloyd Zusman <ljz@asfast.com> wrote:
+ However, it sometimes appears that those who make these comments to
+ "newbies" and others occasionally fall into knee-jerk patterns in
+ their responses. For example, someone who wants to test a beta
+ version of perl.005_x is more than likely not a "newbie" at all.
Things should be as simple as possible - not simpler.
-- Albert Einstein
While its true that someone wanting to obtain the latest-greatest _beta
TEST_ version is not likely to be a newbie, that version of the software
shouldn't just be laying around _anywhere_ where a newbie might lay h(is|er)
hands on it.
I can just imagine what this newsgroup would be like should several newbies
accidentally (or otherwise[*]) obtain a _beta TEST_ version. And having it
puke on their machines. Oh, yeah, that's a Real Good Idea.
+ And I have to agree with you that a lot of this does indeed look like
+ a manhood ritual, although I'm not sure whether I would actually
+ prefer the stone-knife circumcision to the stuff that goes on here.
So, you allow people to drive your car even if they don't have driver's
licenses? Things would be so much different if most people to responsibility
for their own actions. But in the USA, most have been conditioned into
believing "It can't be _my_ fault! There _must_ be someone _else_ I can
blame!".
James
[*] I could see someone providing a buggy beta version intentionally
as a form of "fun"
--
Consulting Minister for Consultants, DNRC
The Bill of Rights is paid in Responsibilities - Jean McGuire
To cure your perl CGI problems, please look at:
<url:http://www.perl.com/CPAN-local/doc/FAQs/cgi/idiots-guide.html>
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 24 May 1998 19:43:57 +0200
From: "Johannes Kuehrer" <Johannes@young-world.com>
Subject: Perl under Windows
Message-Id: <35685d06.0@news.profinet.at>
Hello !!
I have a problem. I installed a web server under Windows NT.
But i dont know how i have to install Perl.
And what command do i have to enter in a perl script ??
I mean the path to the per interpreter.
In only know it on UNIX..like: #! /usr/local/bin/perl
But how is this under Windows ?? How i should enter the path ??
I would be glad when someone could help me !!
Thank you !!!!
Johannes Kuehrer
Johannes@young-world.com
Austria
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 24 May 1998 18:01:12 GMT
From: Tom Phoenix <rootbeer@teleport.com>
To: Johannes Kuehrer <Johannes@young-world.com>
Subject: Re: Perl under Windows
Message-Id: <Pine.GSO.3.96.980524105745.4745G-100000@user2.teleport.com>
On Sun, 24 May 1998, Johannes Kuehrer wrote:
> I have a problem. I installed a web server under Windows NT.
> But i dont know how i have to install Perl.
The release notes which come with Perl (for Win32) should explain that.
> And what command do i have to enter in a perl script ??
> I mean the path to the per interpreter.
The docs for your server should explain that.
If you have further questions about how to set up your server to be able
to run Perl scripts, the docs, FAQs and newsgroups about servers should
have the answers.
Hope this helps!
--
Tom Phoenix Perl Training and Hacking Esperanto
Randal Schwartz Case: http://www.rahul.net/jeffrey/ovs/
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 24 May 1998 17:07:40 GMT
From: Tom Phoenix <rootbeer@teleport.com>
To: Emil Vatralov <emil@libra.math.tau.ac.il>
Subject: Re: perl5 <=> perl4 incompatibility ?
Message-Id: <Pine.GSO.3.96.980524100506.4745E-100000@user2.teleport.com>
On 24 May 1998, Emil Vatralov wrote:
> Can someone, please, explain me why the following
> small program prints differnt output in perl4 and perl5,
Yep; it's documented in perltrap. Hope this helps!
--
Tom Phoenix Perl Training and Hacking Esperanto
Randal Schwartz Case: http://www.rahul.net/jeffrey/ovs/
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 24 May 1998 12:12:49 GMT
From: Bill 'Sneex' Jones <webmaster@fccjmail.fccj.org>
Subject: Perl5.004_6x eq Perl5.005(preview/alpha?)
Message-Id: <35680F00.EC6709B1@fccjmail.fccj.org>
As I researched this, I have come to believe (prolly erroneously)
that what is in src/devel/ et al is pre5.005 ?
Oh well, I will be satisfied with Perl.5.004_65 until next upload :-)
Thanks :-)
-Sneex-
____________________________________________________________________________
Bill Jones | FCCJ Webmaster | Voice 1-904-632-3089 | Fax 1-904-632-3007
Florida Community College at Jacksonville | 501 W. State St. | Jax, FL 32202
mailto:webmaster@fccjmail.fccj.org | http://webmaster.fccj.org/Webmaster
PS - No hard feelings Tom, I would rather fish :-)
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 24 May 1998 17:04:50 GMT
From: Tom Phoenix <rootbeer@teleport.com>
To: Guido Mensching <mensch@spinfo.uni-koeln.de>
Subject: Re: Problems with "print"
Message-Id: <Pine.GSO.3.96.980524100307.4745D-100000@user2.teleport.com>
On 24 May 1998, Guido Mensching wrote:
> If the substring "house" is found, the pos variable is > 1 and the
> message "Not found" is printed to the UNIX-screen.
Okay, you've got pos working correctly!
> If the program runs interactively with a web-client, nothing is printed.
Sounds like a CGI problem, then. When you're having trouble with a CGI
program in Perl, you should first look at the
please-don't-be-offended-by-the-name Idiot's Guide to solving such
problems. It's available on CPAN.
http://www.perl.com/CPAN/
http://www.perl.org/CPAN/
http://www.perl.org/CPAN/doc/FAQs/cgi/idiots-guide.html
http://www.perl.org/CPAN/doc/manual/html/pod/
Hope this helps!
--
Tom Phoenix Perl Training and Hacking Esperanto
Randal Schwartz Case: http://www.rahul.net/jeffrey/ovs/
------------------------------
Date: 23 May 1998 15:23:31 +0000
From: David Wragg <davew@gatsby.u-net.com>
Subject: Re: Quiet summary
Message-Id: <jaogwp9fkc.fsf@gatsby.u-net.com>
stanley@skyking.OCE.ORST.EDU (John Stanley) writes:
> And yes, catsup is a correct spelling for
> the red tomato product you call ketchup.
No, the stuff they give away with burgers and fries at McDonald's is
definitely called ketchup spelled K-E-T-C-H-U-P. I guess it could be
made from tomatos, though I'm not certain.
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 24 May 1998 15:16:06 GMT
From: pudge@pobox.com (Chris Nandor)
Subject: Re: Quiet summary
Message-Id: <pudge-2405981110310001@dynamic417.ply.adelphia.net>
In article <6k4e0l$lvq$1@news.NERO.NET>, stanley@skyking.OCE.ORST.EDU
(John Stanley) wrote:
# In article <pudge-2205980818120001@dynamic417.ply.adelphia.net>,
# Chris Nandor <pudge@pobox.com> wrote:
# >In article <6k2p36$55t$1@news.NERO.NET>, stanley@skyking.OCE.ORST.EDU
# >(John Stanley) wrote:
# >
# ># The FSF use of the term "free" is made clear on their website, and to
# ># expect it to be repeated every time the word "free" appears is just
# ># ridiculous.
# >
# >I don't think so. Your analogy was a bit off; when Tom says "MacDonalds
# >(sic) gives out free catsup (sic ;-)" to people down the street, everyone
# >undertsands that ketchup is free at McDonald's in the same fashion;
#
# No, they don't. The people at McDonalds (sic) know it is free only because
# you buy a hamburger. I.e., there is a cost associated with the free
# catsup, and if you have to pay for it it isn't "free" in the sense you
# want the word used.
Sure it is. The ketchup is without cost, if you buy the burger. It is free.
# The ones Tom is telling will probably assume it is
# completely free -- no cost. And yes, catsup is a correct spelling for
# the red tomato product you call ketchup.
That's why I put a little winky face in there. John, joke; joke, John.
Shake hands, and come out fighting.
# >the
# >fact that this free ketchup is contingent on other criteria (the purchase
# >of a burger) does not change the definition of free, while the FSF *is*
# >changing (has changed?) said definition.
#
# The FSF is using a different sense of the word than you are; one that
# predated Mr. Stallman by quite a few years. They didn't change
# anything.
Yes, they did. The word "free" when applied to software has meant
"without cost" since long before RMS came around to the picture.
# >Furthermore, how hard is it to add a hyperlink?
#
# To every word on every page? You do realize that if they have to define
# "free" every time they use it, they will also have to define "this" and
# "software" and every other word because there might be people who come
# by with a poor grasp of the english language who might be confused just
# like Tom was.
Oh, get a grip. Please stop setting up straw men to knock down. Who here
can be expected to misunderstand "this" and "software"? Not one person.
But a MAJORITY -- not just a few -- a majority of computer users will
misunderstand FSF's use of "free".
# > That's what the web is for, right?
#
# No, that isn't what the web is for.
Yes, it is. It is for hypertext. It's even in the name of the protocol
and the markup language.
# >I just don't think that is asking too much: a small bit of
# >work, in my opinion, would greatly improve the situation.
#
# Then you are volunteering to do it for them?
That's exactly what I am doing, John. Oh yeah.
--
Chris Nandor mailto:pudge@pobox.com http://pudge.net/
%PGPKey = ('B76E72AD', [1024, '0824090B CE73CA10 1FF77F13 8180B6B6'])
------------------------------
Date: 24 May 1998 18:08:51 GMT
From: stanley@skyking.OCE.ORST.EDU (John Stanley)
Subject: Re: Quiet summary
Message-Id: <6k9nnj$hba$1@news.NERO.NET>
In article <pudge-2405981110310001@dynamic417.ply.adelphia.net>,
Chris Nandor <pudge@pobox.com> wrote:
>In article <6k4e0l$lvq$1@news.NERO.NET>, stanley@skyking.OCE.ORST.EDU
>(John Stanley) wrote:
># No, they don't. The people at McDonalds (sic) know it is free only because
># you buy a hamburger. I.e., there is a cost associated with the free
># catsup, and if you have to pay for it it isn't "free" in the sense you
># want the word used.
>
>Sure it is. The ketchup is without cost, if you buy the burger. It is free.
Then it is not free. You must pay for a hamburger first.
># The FSF is using a different sense of the word than you are; one that
># predated Mr. Stallman by quite a few years. They didn't change
># anything.
>
>Yes, they did. The word "free" when applied to software has meant
>"without cost" since long before RMS came around to the picture.
The word "free" has had many meanings for a very long time. They did not
change anything about that word when they applied it to software.
># To every word on every page? You do realize that if they have to define
># "free" every time they use it, they will also have to define "this" and
># "software" and every other word because there might be people who come
># by with a poor grasp of the english language who might be confused just
># like Tom was.
>
>Oh, get a grip. Please stop setting up straw men to knock down. Who here
>can be expected to misunderstand "this" and "software"? Not one person.
Here? Probably nobody. But then, how many FSF members (or
collaborators, or whatever the equivalent to a perl monger) would be
expected to misunderstand the word "free" when it appears on an FSF web
page? Not one.
So if you are going to limit the audience to "here" for all the words
used here, I think it is reasonable to limit the audience to "FSF
hacks" when talking about their web pages. Otherwise, if you want to
open their pages up to everyone when considering the meaning of "free",
you need to do so when considering the meaning of "this" and "software"
and every other word on the page. How many Iranians would understand
the full meaning of all the words? How many French?
>But a MAJORITY -- not just a few -- a majority of computer users will
>misunderstand FSF's use of "free".
So what? A majority of them will not be scouring the FSF web pages
looking for FSF projects to work on. ANd if they do, they will have
come in throught th front door which contains a link that answers the
question "what is free software?" And those looking for perl
documentation are hardly going to be looking to an obscure FSF web page
to see if it exists.
"I want some perl documentation, I think I will go look at a page
somewhere under the FSF which has nothing to do with perl but why not
look there anyway? And when I get there, I will completely ignore the
context of the page and misinterpret a statement on a task list to mean
there is no documentation I can get without cost." Yeah, right.
># > That's what the web is for, right?
>#
># No, that isn't what the web is for.
>
>Yes, it is. It is for hypertext.
It's for intelligent hypertext. It is not for defining every word on
every page. Yes, you can hyperlink every word, but that is stupid.
>It's even in the name of the protocol
>and the markup language.
HTML contains the word "dictionary" in there?
># Then you are volunteering to do it for them?
>
>That's exactly what I am doing, John. Oh yeah.
Then please come back when you have finished.
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 24 May 1998 14:04:13 GMT
From: fastmethod@mindless.com
Subject: Re: Search and Replacing a double-quote character
Message-Id: <6k99cs$cip$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com>
In article <6k7kdq$454$1@marina.cinenet.net>,
cberry@cinenet.net (Craig Berry) wrote:
> Are you sure you don't have some other problem?
Right you are! I figured out that I was printing the wrong variable (sigh).
Well, thanks to all of your good help I didn't go and do something irrational,
thanks again!
-Mr. Method
-----== Posted via Deja News, The Leader in Internet Discussion ==-----
http://www.dejanews.com/ Now offering spam-free web-based newsreading
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 24 May 1998 20:36:13 +0200
From: "Raynette-Sibastien JONCHERAY" <publicweb@adar.net>
Subject: Socket ERROR. Please help.
Message-Id: <3568689D.F3C065AA@adar.net>
Hello, Thanks for your help.
I'm trying to establish a socket, and then to connect to
whois.internic.net. (i can't have 'whois' command from unix system !)
The erreur is : can't do socket or it doesn't find 'tcp' $prototype
Here is my perl code. I tried hard to find by myself, but ...
Any idea ? Thanks a lot.
Sebastien.
-----------------------------------------------
#!/usr/local/bin/perl
$port = 2000;
print ("Content-type: text/html\n\n <PRE>\n");
while (getservbyport ($port, "tcp")) {
$port++;
}
print ("port found : $port\n");
($d1,$d2,$prototype) = getprotobyname ("tcp");
print ("prototype : $prototype\n");
($d1, $d2, $d3, $d4, $rawserver) = gethostbyname ("whois.internic.net");
$serveraddr = pack ("Sna4x8", 2, $port, $rawserver);
socket (SOCKET, 2, 1, $prototype) || die ("No socket $!");
connect (SOCKET, $serveraddr);
$line = <SOCKET>;
print ("$line\n");
close (SOCKET);
-----------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 24 May 1998 16:39:44 GMT
From: fredrik@pythonware.com
Subject: Re: Tom Christiansen attacks the free software community (was: Re: GNU attacks on the open software community)
Message-Id: <6k9igg$rjg$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com>
In article <EtD6v9.84x@fsa.bris.ac.uk>,
stefan@cs.bris.ac.uk wrote:
>
> micschne@grapool1.rz.uni-frankfurt.de wrote:
>
> : There might be other languages, where "free" inherently refers
> : to libre and where you must say something like "gratis", if you
> : refer to prices. I wonder if someone reading this thread knows
> : such a language.
>
> Yes - Swedish.
>
> 'Fri' == libre
> 'Gratis' == gratis
Fritt intrdde? Fria hemresor? Fri sprit? Fri bil?
mvh /F
-----== Posted via Deja News, The Leader in Internet Discussion ==-----
http://www.dejanews.com/ Now offering spam-free web-based newsreading
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 24 May 1998 09:16:21 -0700
From: Jim Bowlin <bowlin@sirius.com>
To: Atsushi Amemiya <a.amemiya@asahi-jc.com>
Subject: Re: Upload File via Web
Message-Id: <356847D5.6112432F@sirius.com>
Atsushi Amemiya wrote:
>
> To Whom It May Concern:
>
> Is it possible to write a CGI program in Perl that would let users upload
> local files to a server from a web page? I don't know if it's written in
> Perl, but Geocities' file manager does let users upload local files to their
> server from the web.
>
> Does anyone know? I hope I could see a code example....
>
> Atsushi
Check out Lincoln Stein's CGI.pm module. There are examples in his
demo programs. It is pretty darn easy.
-- Jim Bowlin
------------------------------
Date: 24 May 1998 14:28:50 GMT
From: ? the platypus {aka David Formosa} <dformosa@st.nepean.uws.edu.au>
Subject: Re: Why NOT crypt???
Message-Id: <896020130.55546@cabal>
In <6k43r6$jja$1@plug.news.pipex.net> "Jeremy Goldberg" <jgoldberg@dial-but-dont-spam.pipex.com> writes:
[...]
>>Sounds like a terrible idea, security-wise, unless you use it as a
>>challenge/response scheme with one side sending the salt and the other
>sending the encrypted password.
>As a simple alternative to nothing at all, it can't be beaten.
Bad securaty is worce then no securaty at all. Bad secureaty will lull
you into a false sence of secuarty that makes it easyer to violate your
system. I dout there is a secure method of authentication that can be
done with a shared secrete and a one way hash.
--
I'm a perl programer; if you need perl programing, hire me.
Please excuse my spelling as I suffer from agraphia; see the url. Support NoCeM
http://www.cit.nepean.uws.edu.au/~dformosa/Spelling.html http://www.cm.org/
I'm sorry but I just don't consider 'because its yucky' a convincing argument
------------------------------
Date: 8 Mar 97 21:33:47 GMT (Last modified)
From: Perl-Request@ruby.oce.orst.edu (Perl-Users-Digest Admin)
Subject: Digest Administrivia (Last modified: 8 Mar 97)
Message-Id: <null>
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------------------------------
End of Perl-Users Digest V8 Issue 2709
**************************************
