[9069] in Perl-Users-Digest
Perl-Users Digest, Issue: 2687 Volume: 8
daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (Perl-Users Digest)
Fri May 22 11:13:51 1998
Date: Fri, 22 May 98 08:01:24 -0700
From: Perl-Users Digest <Perl-Users-Request@ruby.OCE.ORST.EDU>
To: Perl-Users@ruby.OCE.ORST.EDU (Perl-Users Digest)
Perl-Users Digest Fri, 22 May 1998 Volume: 8 Number: 2687
Today's topics:
Re: Clearly define "free software" <hp@pobox.com>
Re: Clearly define "free software" (Paul D. Smith)
Re: constants in perl? (Kevin Reid)
Re: constants in perl? <rootbeer@teleport.com>
Re: Getting hex codes from string <sfairey@adc.metrica.co.uk>
Re: Getting hex codes from string <sfairey@adc.metrica.co.uk>
Re: Getting hex codes from string (Mike Stok)
Re: Getting hex codes from string <rootbeer@teleport.com>
Re: GNU attacks on the open software community (Jim Freeman)
Re: GNU attacks on the open software community (Tyson Richard DOWD)
Re: GNU attacks on the open software community (Dave Barr)
Re: GPL documentation == unspeakable evil (Tyson Richard DOWD)
Re: GPL documentation == unspeakable evil (Paul D. Smith)
Re: GPL documentation == unspeakable evil (Paul D. Smith)
Re: GPL documentation == unspeakable evil (Paul D. Smith)
Re: GPL documentation == unspeakable evil (Chris Nandor)
Re: Idle thoughts...Can I make this leap year function (Fritz Knack)
Re: Int() gives wrong result <jhi@alpha.hut.fi>
Killing a thread (was: Re: Stop Changing Subject Lines! <abraham@dina.kvl.dk>
Re: LABOR CRISIS: Perl SW Guru NEEDED MA Intranet Start kvi@public.kharkov.ua
Re: More double standards out of the FSF (Dave Barr)
Re: More double standards out of the FSF <abraham@dina.kvl.dk>
news/mail posting <mossp@hp.com>
Re: Perl indention formatter/standardizer <rootbeer@teleport.com>
Reading binary files from a NT serial port (Ingvald Gjesdal)
Digest Administrivia (Last modified: 8 Mar 97) (Perl-Users-Digest Admin)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Fri, 22 May 1998 14:03:14 GMT
From: robert havoc pennington <hp@pobox.com>
Subject: Re: Clearly define "free software"
Message-Id: <wsnsom21jz1.fsf@harper.uchicago.edu>
cls@seawood.org (Christopher Seawood) writes:
>
> Ok, if the results aren't perfect, then what's wrong with attempting
> to make them perfect? I've already stated that FSF's defintion of free
> software, pretty much matches my own. What's wrong with changing 'good
> enough' (as I've heard people describe the GPL) into 'even better'?
>
I'm all for it. Just tell us how, and convince us that your license
actually is better. ;-)
> : Yes, that's both a plus and a minus. You just have to decide what your
> : goals are, so you know what tradeoffs you want to make.
>
> It definitely seems to be much more of a minus than a plus. So rather
> than get software that uses a proprietary library but works, I get
> nothing. That's not convenient at all. Thanks, but no thanks.
>
The idea is that you get software that uses no proprietary library and
still works. Much of the time that has in fact happened.
People seem to feel that not using the GPL would magically cause an
explosion of software availability. I don't see reason to believe
that. There is lots of proprietary Linux software despite its GPL
status, and I don't think the holdouts are worried about the GPL, I
think they're worried about Linux. Much other GPL software is not
something you would want to link with anyway, or it's LGPL. The cases
in which someone is thinking "gee, I'd write this software package if
library X wasn't GPL" are very few, I imagine. They can always buy the
equivalent proprietary library.
Havoc Pennington ==== http://pobox.com/~hp
------------------------------
Date: 22 May 1998 10:44:17 -0400
From: psmith@baynetworks.com (Paul D. Smith)
Subject: Re: Clearly define "free software"
Message-Id: <p5pvh62wn2.fsf@baynetworks.com>
%% cls@seawood.org (Christopher Seawood) writes:
: Yes, that's both a plus and a minus. You just have to decide what your
: goals are, so you know what tradeoffs you want to make.
cs> It definitely seems to be much more of a minus than a plus. So
cs> rather than get software that uses a proprietary library but
cs> works, I get nothing. That's not convenient at all. Thanks, but
cs> no thanks.
Yes, sometimes you get nothing.
On the other hand, sometimes you get it all. There are a number of
examples (see the recent archives of gnu.misc.discuss) of companies
deciding that contributing their changes under the GPL is an acceptable
price to pay for the "leg-up" of starting with the GPL'd code base.
If the code base were under BSD, there's an excellent chance they would
not have contributed those changes back.
The GPL plays an all-or-nothing game. Sometimes it loses, sometimes it
wins. But when it wins, _everyone_ wins. And even when it loses,
sometimes it wins because someone gets frustrated enough to decide to
create a non-proprietary version of the library (or whatever).
--
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Paul D. Smith <psmith@baynetworks.com> Network Management Development
"Please remain calm...I may be mad, but I am a professional." --Mad Scientist
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
These are my opinions--Bay Networks takes no responsibility for them.
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 22 May 1998 10:28:15 -0400
From: kpreid@ibm.net (Kevin Reid)
Subject: Re: constants in perl?
Message-Id: <1d9eitb.odi6jp178vhkyN@slip-32-100-246-193.ny.us.ibm.net>
Tom Christiansen <tchrist@mox.perl.com> wrote:
> [courtesy cc of this posting sent to cited author via email]
>
> In comp.lang.perl.misc, "Andrew M. Dungan" <dungan@flash.net> writes:
> :does perl support constants?
> :
> :I want to define something like:
> :
> :const $pi=3.14;
> :
> :can this be done in perl? if so, how?
>
> This, like your previous question, is fully explained in the standard
> Perl documentation included with your system, which I strongly counsel
> you to read, and, failing that, at least to grep.
What about people not on a UNIX system?
--
Kevin Reid. | Macintosh.
"I'm me." | Think different.
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 22 May 1998 14:43:37 GMT
From: Tom Phoenix <rootbeer@teleport.com>
To: Kevin Reid <kpreid@ibm.net>
Subject: Re: constants in perl?
Message-Id: <Pine.GSO.3.96.980522073559.29577O-100000@user2.teleport.com>
On Fri, 22 May 1998, Kevin Reid wrote:
> > This, like your previous question, is fully explained in the standard
> > Perl documentation included with your system, which I strongly counsel
> > you to read, and, failing that, at least to grep.
>
> What about people not on a UNIX system?
They should install Linux. :-)
But seriously, if your distribution of Perl doesn't come with
easily-readable and -searchable documentation, it's broken. No two ways
about it. If that's the case, you should loudly complain to whoever put it
together. This applies to Unix and non-Unix distributions alike.
Cheers!
--
Tom Phoenix Perl Training and Hacking Esperanto
Randal Schwartz Case: http://www.rahul.net/jeffrey/ovs/
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 22 May 1998 15:04:24 +0100
From: "Simon Fairey" <sfairey@adc.metrica.co.uk>
Subject: Re: Getting hex codes from string
Message-Id: <895845873.27136.0.nnrp-11.c246a788@news.demon.co.uk>
Hi,
( sorry Outlook Express doesn't seem to like reply to newsgroup and author
*sigh* just one or the other!)
I can get it down to the following:
map { printf "%02x:", $_ } split //, $string;
Except that for some strange reason the following:
printf "%02x", 'a'
never prints anyting other than 00 which has me confused but I'm probably
doing something
stupid, anyway I have found that the map() cmd can often be useful for
shortening things down.
Having said that the main thing here is the use of split to get each
character from the string
rather than unpacking then storing so you could easily do:
while(split //, $string){ printf "%02x:", $_ }
which is probably just as good as the map and saves the storing and shifting
of the array.
Simon 'waiting for someone to explain why %x doesn't work' F
Choo Heng Kek wrote in message <6k3e05$o9e$1@nuscc.nus.edu.sg>...
>Greetings
>
>I want to read in a string and then print the hex codes of
>each character of the string.
>
>The following is what I do now, but am hoping for more "elegant"
>solutions from perl hackers out there:
>
> @buf = unpack('C*', $string);
> while(@buf){ printf "%02x:", shift @buf }
>
>If $string is "abc", the output is "61:62:63".
>
>Any suggestions or comments?
>Thanks for reading.
>
>Heng Kek
>BioInformatics Centre
>Singapore
>
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 22 May 1998 15:18:10 +0100
From: "Simon Fairey" <sfairey@adc.metrica.co.uk>
Subject: Re: Getting hex codes from string
Message-Id: <895846699.27517.0.nnrp-11.c246a788@news.demon.co.uk>
Simon Fairey wrote in message
<895845873.27136.0.nnrp-11.c246a788@news.demon.co.uk>...
>Hi,
>
>( sorry Outlook Express doesn't seem to like reply to newsgroup and author
>*sigh* just one or the other!)
>
>I can get it down to the following:
>
> map { printf "%02x:", $_ } split //, $string;
>
>Except that for some strange reason the following:
>
> printf "%02x", 'a'
>
>never prints anyting other than 00 which has me confused but I'm probably
>doing something
>stupid, anyway I have found that the map() cmd can often be useful for
>shortening things down.
>
>Having said that the main thing here is the use of split to get each
>character from the string
>rather than unpacking then storing so you could easily do:
>
> while(split //, $string){ printf "%02x:", $_ }
Eeek this of course should be a for/foreach rather than a while *sigh*
------------------------------
Date: 22 May 1998 14:21:03 GMT
From: mike@stok.co.uk (Mike Stok)
Subject: Re: Getting hex codes from string
Message-Id: <6k41kf$emd@news-central.tiac.net>
In article <895845873.27136.0.nnrp-11.c246a788@news.demon.co.uk>,
Simon Fairey <sfairey@adc.metrica.co.uk> wrote:
>I can get it down to the following:
>
> map { printf "%02x:", $_ } split //, $string;
>
>Except that for some strange reason the following:
>
> printf "%02x", 'a'
>
>never prints anyting other than 00 which has me confused but I'm probably
>doing something
In C 'a' is an integer and "a" is a null terminated string (fast &
loose). In perl '' and "" both surround strings of characters, the
difference between '' and "" in perl is whether interpolation happens in
the string (ignoring tricks like print qq'my pid is $$' :-)
printf '%02x', ord 'a';
might do what you want.
Hope this helps,
Mike
--
mike@stok.co.uk | The "`Stok' disclaimers" apply.
http://www.stok.co.uk/~mike/ | PGP fingerprint FE 56 4D 7D 42 1A 4A 9C
http://www.tiac.net/users/stok/ | 65 F3 3F 1D 27 22 B7 41
stok@colltech.com | Collective Technologies (work)
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 22 May 1998 14:28:25 GMT
From: Tom Phoenix <rootbeer@teleport.com>
To: Simon Fairey <sfairey@adc.metrica.co.uk>
Subject: Re: Getting hex codes from string
Message-Id: <Pine.GSO.3.96.980522072232.29577M-100000@user2.teleport.com>
On Fri, 22 May 1998, Simon Fairey wrote:
> map { printf "%02x:", $_ } split //, $string;
Ouch! It hurts my eyes to see print(f) inside of a map, not to mention a
map in a void context.
> Except that for some strange reason the following:
>
> printf "%02x", 'a'
>
> never prints anyting other than 00
Well, when Perl seems to be doing something strange, use the -w invocation
argument to ask it to let you know if you're asking for something strange.
> while(split //, $string){ printf "%02x:", $_ }
I don't think that that means what you think it means. Cheers!
--
Tom Phoenix Perl Training and Hacking Esperanto
Randal Schwartz Case: http://www.rahul.net/jeffrey/ovs/
------------------------------
Date: 22 May 1998 08:04:28 -0600
From: jfree@caldera.com (Jim Freeman)
Subject: Re: GNU attacks on the open software community
Message-Id: <6k40lc$70h$1@caldera.com>
In article <u17m3eobkr.fsf@noisy.vggas.com>,
James Youngman <JYoungman@vggas.com> wrote:
>>>>>> "cr" == Chris Russo <news@russo.org> writes:
> cr> Why try to bend the English language to your group's wishes?
> cr> Why not just use the language correctly and be understood?
>It would be nice to do that, but there is no English word which is
>closer in meaning to that which the FSF means when it says "Free". If
>there had been one, the FSF would have used it instead of "Free".
Sovereign ?
c : enjoying autonomy : INDEPENDENT <sovereign state>
( http://www.m-w.com/cgi-bin/dictionary )
------------------------------
Date: 22 May 1998 23:48:30 +1000
From: trd@hydra.cs.mu.oz.au (Tyson Richard DOWD)
Subject: Re: GNU attacks on the open software community
Message-Id: <6k3vne$icd$1@hydra.cs.mu.oz.au>
Tom Christiansen <tchrist@mox.perl.com> writes:
> [courtesy cc of this posting sent to cited author via email]
>In comp.lang.perl.misc,
> tzs@halcyon.com (Tim Smith) writes:
>:Some people would like to have documentation that they can change
>:without having to contact and coordinate with the original author.
>That's not how the Perl distribution works. We have a development
>and release team who does coordinates this work. And we work with the
>authors to make sure their intentions are followed.
This is just policy and process, it has nothing to do with licenses.
If the Perl team says "no", you can change Perl yourself, and make
your own version. This is not true of the documentation.
------------------------------
Date: 22 May 1998 14:35:18 GMT
From: barr@cis.ohio-state.edu (Dave Barr)
Subject: Re: GNU attacks on the open software community
Message-Id: <6k42f6$nfi$1@news.cis.ohio-state.edu>
In article <m2k97eh7z2.fsf@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de>,
David Kastrup <dak@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de> wrote:
>"Free" is not tantamount to "GPL", even for the FSF. The license in
>question disallows making profits off the documentation, for example
>disallowing RedHat to include it on their CDROMs (they make their
>living off the CDROMs, so obviously can't provide them "at cost").
RedHat makes their living by selling their "value added" stuff (like
MetroX, ApplixWare), not by selling the already-free stuff.
--Dave
--
http://www.cis.ohio-state.edu/~barr/
barr@cis.ohio-state.edu
------------------------------
Date: 23 May 1998 00:15:51 +1000
From: trd@hydra.cs.mu.oz.au (Tyson Richard DOWD)
Subject: Re: GPL documentation == unspeakable evil
Message-Id: <6k41an$ie2$1@hydra.cs.mu.oz.au>
Tom Christiansen <tchrist@mox.perl.com> writes:
> [courtesy cc of this posting sent to cited author via email]
>In comp.lang.perl.misc,
> David Kastrup <dak@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de> writes:
>:nor freely maintainable as you prohibit any
>:modifications by others.
>This is false. The Perl release manager (Larry's designated pumpkin
>holder) coordinates all maintenance and updates of the Perl set. They are
>perfectly allowed to apply fixes and maintenance to me documents, and
>I've told them that in person.
So there are two people in the world who can modify it.
You're license doesn't allow this, by the way, you have given special
permission to the Perl release manager to do this. So you have
granted one exception to your license that prohibits any modifications
by others.
>:That means that the destiny of the docs in
>:question is entirely bound to your destiny and the destiny of your
>:interest or capabilites in them.
>No, it isn't, as I've shown. Are you happy now?
No, two people isn't much better than 1 person.
I don't particularly want to be dependant on even 16,000 people
(number of programmers at Microsoft).
>Listen: the real point is I want these to be free.
>If someone is going to separate them off from the Perl distribution,
>print them, and sell them for profit, then they can bloody well ask
>my permission. Pride of authorship and ownership is a basic human
>characteristic.
>Each and every "good works" organization (CDs for conference goers,
>university students, free unix distriubtions) who has done this has been
>immediately and happily granted that permission without royalties or
>strings. That's the reality of the siutation. No one who tried to make
>a killing, or whom I consider the wrong side of the fence (Monoposoft)
>has asked. If they did, I supposed I might consider royalties, but it's
>never come up and I've never thought about it.
>And I won't tolerate someone hacking up my documents and sending them
>around claiming they are "the perl faq". That would be confusing. It is
>important that there be One Perl, and important that its documentation
>be coordinated with it. That's why requested changes to my works should
>either be sent to me (we call this polite respect), or the Perl release
>manager. "perlbug@perl.com" is the normal way to submit patches to
>the Perl release.
>I don't understand why people have a problem with any of that.
Because I can't modify it without your permission. And if you
decide to become nasty one day (as sometimes happens to people when they
get old), or you decide that you don't want Perl or even just perlfaq
to go a particular direction, I'm screwed.
I choose free software because I know that I can do it myself if
necessary. This is why modification is important to me. This is
why I have a problem with your license.
But it's not a huge problem. I'm not going to create a new
perlfaq. Probably no-one is, unless there is a Perl fork one day,
or your licensing restricts packagers too much. As far as I am
concerned, you have every right to license you work as you see fit.
But I don't think it is fair for you to criticize the FSF for
having different goals to you.
------------------------------
Date: 22 May 1998 10:17:57 -0400
From: psmith@baynetworks.com (Paul D. Smith)
Subject: Re: GPL documentation == unspeakable evil
Message-Id: <p5yavu2xuy.fsf@baynetworks.com>
%% Tom Christiansen <tchrist@mox.perl.com> writes:
:Your documentation is neither freely redistributable (as it may not be
:redistributed by free software vendors like RedHat that make a living
:from doing so),
tc> This is false. It may and must be included in a full distribution
tc> of Perl. I've written this before and will make it clearer in the
tc> future copyrights.
:nor freely maintainable as you prohibit any modifications by others.
tc> This is false. The Perl release manager (Larry's designated
tc> pumpkin holder) coordinates all maintenance and updates of the
tc> Perl set. They are perfectly allowed to apply fixes and
tc> maintenance to me documents, and I've told them that in person.
I understand (since this thread, though, not before) that this is what
you _intend_, Tom, but that's not at all what your license actually
_says_. I distinctly recall this point being made a couple of months
ago during the authorship blowup on p5p, too. Perhaps it wasn't made
quite clear enough exactly what the problem was.
Organizations like Debian, RedHat, and the FSF live and die by licensing
and they will pay very close attention to the _text_ of the license.
If you want perlfaq to be distributed in any context under which perl
itself can be distributed, please modify the license to say this.
Right now latest.tar.gz is seriously (IMO) impacted by the inclusion of
perlfaq and its licensing; it means that either RedHat et. al. must open
up the distribution and remove perlfaq before including perl or, if your
statement that they can't do so is correct, they can't ship Perl at all!
You've said you'll change the license to rectify this situation, so
that's great. We'll wait and see what the new license looks like.
--
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Paul D. Smith <psmith@baynetworks.com> Network Management Development
"Please remain calm...I may be mad, but I am a professional." --Mad Scientist
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
These are my opinions--Bay Networks takes no responsibility for them.
------------------------------
Date: 22 May 1998 10:31:27 -0400
From: psmith@baynetworks.com (Paul D. Smith)
Subject: Re: GPL documentation == unspeakable evil
Message-Id: <p5vhqy2x8g.fsf@baynetworks.com>
%% fantome/@/usa/./net (le Fanttme) writes:
lf> This is an untrue statement. RedHat *may* distribute it. RedHat
lf> *may not* say "oh, we're including Tom's documents. Let's charge
lf> an extra $50 for the CD because these are so good." Especially if
lf> it only costs a penny to include Tom's documents on a given CD.
Wow! You sure see a lot more in the license than I do. Here's the
text we're discussing, for those who haven't read it:
Permission is granted to distribute this document, in part or in full,
via electronic means or printed copy providing that (1) that all credits
and copyright notices be retained, (2) that no charges beyond reproduction
be involved, and (3) that a reasonable attempt be made to use the most
current version available.
First, this gives permission only for distribution "via electronic means
or printed copy", and it's not at all clear to me that sticking it on a
CD falls under either of those categories. Why not just say "by any
means"?
Second, it merely says "no charges beyond reproduction be involved".
There's no mention that "oh, maybe a few pennies profit", or "oh, you
can charge more as long as the CD contains lots of other stuff too", or
anything like that.
It says "no charges". Where I come from that means "no charges".
David's statement is entirely accurate, according to the license as it
currently exists.
Tom has said that's not what he intended, and he'll fix the license.
That will be great. But until that time, the license says perlfaq may
not be put into a RedHat or Debian distribution if anyone makes a profit
providing that distribution.
--
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Paul D. Smith <psmith@baynetworks.com> Network Management Development
"Please remain calm...I may be mad, but I am a professional." --Mad Scientist
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
These are my opinions--Bay Networks takes no responsibility for them.
------------------------------
Date: 22 May 1998 10:33:49 -0400
From: psmith@baynetworks.com (Paul D. Smith)
Subject: Re: GPL documentation == unspeakable evil
Message-Id: <p5som22x4i.fsf@baynetworks.com>
%% fantome/@/usa/./net (le Fanttme) writes:
lf> On 22 May 1998 02:30:13 -0700, tzs@halcyon.com (Tim Smith) wrote:
>> Tom Christiansen <tchrist@mox.perl.com> wrote:
>>> It is imperative that no documentation be placed under the GPL due to its
>>> insidious viral nature. For example, the Perl documentation is meant to
>>> be used to take examples from to use in your programs. We want people
>>> to do this.
>>
>> Add this to your copyright notice:
>>
>> "The Perl examples in this documentation are in the public
>> domain".
lf> This would not give enough protection. Public domain is a complete
lf> lack of protection.
I think that's what Tom _wants_, for the examples in his documentation.
I think this is a good idea, too.
--
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Paul D. Smith <psmith@baynetworks.com> Network Management Development
"Please remain calm...I may be mad, but I am a professional." --Mad Scientist
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
These are my opinions--Bay Networks takes no responsibility for them.
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 22 May 1998 14:50:41 GMT
From: pudge@pobox.com (Chris Nandor)
Subject: Re: GPL documentation == unspeakable evil
Message-Id: <pudge-2205981045040001@dynamic417.ply.adelphia.net>
In article <p5vhqy2x8g.fsf@baynetworks.com>, psmith@baynetworks.com wrote:
# Wow! You sure see a lot more in the license than I do. Here's the
# text we're discussing, for those who haven't read it:
#
# Permission is granted to distribute this document, in part or in full,
# via electronic means or printed copy providing that (1) that all credits
# and copyright notices be retained, (2) that no charges beyond reproduction
# be involved, and (3) that a reasonable attempt be made to use the most
# current version available.
#
# First, this gives permission only for distribution "via electronic means
# or printed copy", and it's not at all clear to me that sticking it on a
# CD falls under either of those categories. Why not just say "by any
# means"?
I can't answer the question, but I have no doubt whatsoever in my mind
that a CD is electronic means. How could it not be?
# Second, it merely says "no charges beyond reproduction be involved".
# There's no mention that "oh, maybe a few pennies profit", or "oh, you
# can charge more as long as the CD contains lots of other stuff too", or
# anything like that.
#
# It says "no charges". Where I come from that means "no charges".
Well, IANAL, but it seems much more likely to me that it means no charge
beyond reproduction FOR THE DOCUMENT in question. If you happen to throw
it on a commercial CD with other stuff without raising the cost of the CD,
then that seems perfectly in line with the statement above.
Further, since we know that the document in question IS distributed in
that manner every day, on CDs and pre-installed on hard drives, we know
that a precedent has been set. And since Tom has done nothing to stop
these actions, even if we did not know that he has personally, repeatedly,
stated that this is OK, the fact that he has done nothing to stop this
manner of commercial reproduction is evidence that it is allowed. In
other words, if he does nothing to stop it, then he has in effect
relinquished his right to stop it.
So, again IANAL, but it seems to me that the license allows Debian and
RedHat to put it on for-proft CDs, and precedent further strengthens the
case. I edited a CD now for sale that includes perlfaq and perltoot, and
I am not at all worried about getting sued by Tom, because even if he
would do that (which he wouldn't), he would never win the case.
--
Chris Nandor mailto:pudge@pobox.com http://pudge.net/
MacPerl: Power and Ease (ISBN 1881957322), http://www.ptf.com/macperl/
%PGPKey = ('B76E72AD', [1024, '0824090B CE73CA10 1FF77F13 8180B6B6'])
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 22 May 1998 14:13:22 GMT
From: fritz.knack@nospam.POPULUS.net (Fritz Knack)
Subject: Re: Idle thoughts...Can I make this leap year function more elegant/efficient?
Message-Id: <35688224.8044174@cnews.newsguy.com>
On 21 May 1998 16:14:44 -0400, mjd@op.net (Mark-Jason Dominus) wrote:
>
>In article <356749eb.14708245@cnews.newsguy.com>,
>Fritz Knack <fritz.knack@POPULUS.net> wrote:
>>I compacted this one as much as *I* could,
>
>You know, this whole exercise seems like a waste of time. Who cares
>if your leap year function is efficient? Is it a bottleneck?
>
It's not a waste as an exercise for its own sake. If I can learn to
better code the little things, the big ones will come more naturally.
Efficiency of my leap year function is probably the least of my
worries. :)
Fritz
-------------------------
Sorry 'bout the nospam in the From field. You know how those 'bots are.
------------------------------
Date: 22 May 1998 16:54:54 +0300
From: Jarkko Hietaniemi <jhi@alpha.hut.fi>
Subject: Re: Int() gives wrong result
Message-Id: <oeebtsqpg0h.fsf@alpha.hut.fi>
k_wong@my-dejanews.com writes:
>
> Hi,I tried to round something with int() and the resultis kind of strange:
> (perl version 5.004_04 built for sun4-solaris)> perl -de 1Loading DB
> routines from perl5db.pl version 1.01Emacs support available.Enter h or `h
> h' for help.main::(-e:1): 1 DB<1> $a="592.68" DB<2> print int($a*100)
> 59267I tried printf("%d","592.68*100) and the result isthe same. Is
> there something wrong? (Please email and post)TIA,Kenneth Wong
No, that's the *correct* result. The 592.68 you are seeing is an illusion.
The usual floating point arithmetic cannot accurately store that value.
Watch:
alpha:~ ; perl -le '$a=592.68;print 592.68*100-59268'
-7.27595761418343e-12
alpha:~ ;
So 592.68*100 is slightly less than 59268. Therefore, the 59267
is correct.
Did you know that your question is a Frequently Asked Question?
Try "perldoc perlfaq4" or "man perlfaq4" (and "perldoc perlfaq" or
"man perlfaq"), the very first question, and its answer.
--
$jhi++; # http://www.iki.fi/~jhi/
# There is this special biologist word we use for 'stable'.
# It is 'dead'. -- Jack Cohen
------------------------------
Date: 22 May 1998 16:36:58 +0200
From: Per Abrahamsen <abraham@dina.kvl.dk>
Subject: Killing a thread (was: Re: Stop Changing Subject Lines!!)
Message-Id: <rjiumy1iet.fsf@zuse.+dina.kvl.dk>
Peter A Fein <p-fein@uchicago.edu> writes:
> It makes generating a useful killfile damn near impossible.
Use the thread kill function (`L T' in your newsreader) instead.
------------------------------
Date: 22 May 98 12:02:15 GMT
From: kvi@public.kharkov.ua
Subject: Re: LABOR CRISIS: Perl SW Guru NEEDED MA Intranet Start-up 80K+>+Equity
Message-Id: <35656947.0@gemini>
scott@softbase.com wrote:
>RETRACTION AND CORRECTION (please don't e-mail me about my
>brain meltdown):
>
>I wrote:
>
>> 5 years experience or MORE? With Perl?
>
>This should read: "5 years experience or MORE? With Perl? If
>you haven't gotten it by the first couple of years, what will
>the last three accomplish? Oh, well, and anyway, it doesn't
>seem like CGI hasn't existed for 5 years yet."
>
>This is a goof:
>> OO Perl has only been around about a year.
>
>Time really flies. I honestly hadn't realized Perl 5 has been out that
>long. I retract this statement.
>
>I stand by my main point, though, that the labor crisis is largely a
>hoax of unfillable positions that require too many micro-specific
>skills.
>
>Scott
>--
>Look at Softbase Systems' client/server tools, www.softbase.com
>Check out the Essential 97 package for Windows 95 www.skwc.com/essent
>All my other cool web pages are available from that site too!
>My demo tape, artwork, poetry, The Windows 95 Book FAQ, and more.
------------------------------
Date: 22 May 1998 14:13:38 GMT
From: barr@cis.ohio-state.edu (Dave Barr)
Subject: Re: More double standards out of the FSF
Message-Id: <6k416i$n50$1@news.cis.ohio-state.edu>
In article <wsnzpga7qsq.fsf@harper.uchicago.edu>,
robert havoc pennington <hp@pobox.com> wrote:
>I am not sure what else one expects RMS[1] to do. He has his values
>and goals; he puts on his task list what he thinks needs to be done in
>order to achieve them. It's not like he mentioned Tom personally, he
>just said "we need some free[2] Perl docs." Just like he says "we need
>a free version of Motif," or "we need a free Qt,"
Which is precisely why Tom is so mad. To mention "we need some free
Perl docs" in the same manner as you would say "we need a free Motif"
is insulting, because the license for Motif says you must pay royalties,
and thus charge money, while Perl docs are without charge.
--Dave
--
http://www.cis.ohio-state.edu/~barr/
barr@cis.ohio-state.edu
------------------------------
Date: 22 May 1998 16:36:56 +0200
From: Per Abrahamsen <abraham@dina.kvl.dk>
Subject: Re: More double standards out of the FSF
Message-Id: <rjogwq1iev.fsf@zuse.+dina.kvl.dk>
Russ Allbery <rra@stanford.edu> writes:
> If people don't, it splits the documentation effort between two
> mutually incompatible doc sets, and documentation is *hard* to get
> written for free software projects, as anyone who's participated in
> a non-trivial one is aware.
On the other hand, there are usually many books about popular projects
like Perl. I expect a GNU book about Perl would be sufficiently
different in style from the existing books, that it will be a benefit
for the Perl community as a whole.
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 22 May 1998 10:51:53 -0400
From: Pete Moss <mossp@hp.com>
Subject: news/mail posting
Message-Id: <35659109.F0FA35CB@hp.com>
To mail a message with perl, you do something
along the lines of the following:
$mailprog = '/usr/sbin/sendmail';
open (MAIL, "|$mailprog -t") || die "Can't open $mailprog!\n";
print MAIL "To: $recipient\n";
print MAIL "From: $sender\n";
print MAIL "Subject: $subject\n";
print MAIL <<EOM
message text
EOM
close(MAIL);
How do you interact with the news server (innd) like this example with
sendmail?
PM
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 22 May 1998 14:10:59 GMT
From: Tom Phoenix <rootbeer@teleport.com>
To: Tim Furlong <tf@dymaxion.com>
Subject: Re: Perl indention formatter/standardizer
Message-Id: <Pine.GSO.3.96.980522070943.29577K-100000@user2.teleport.com>
On 22 May 1998, Tim Furlong wrote:
> I'm looking for a utility, preferably a perl script, that will correct
> the indention in a perl script. There almost has to be one out there -
> apparently, it's just well-hidden.
Yes, it's hidden in the FAQ. :-) Search for "formatter". Hope this helps!
--
Tom Phoenix Perl Training and Hacking Esperanto
Randal Schwartz Case: http://www.rahul.net/jeffrey/ovs/
------------------------------
Date: 22 May 1998 14:05:58 GMT
From: igjesdal@mitec.no (Ingvald Gjesdal)
Subject: Reading binary files from a NT serial port
Message-Id: <6k40o6$7jn$1@news1.sol.no>
I am trying to read binary data from a serial port on a NT system. I use
sysread, but CR/LF is translated into CR, i.e. the serial port is treated
as a text file. I've used binmode, but it doesn't seem to have any effect
when using sysread. The read function works for ordinary binary files, but
I can't read any data at all from the serial port. Are there any way I can
read binary data from a serial port on an NT?
Ingvald
------------------------------
Date: 8 Mar 97 21:33:47 GMT (Last modified)
From: Perl-Request@ruby.oce.orst.edu (Perl-Users-Digest Admin)
Subject: Digest Administrivia (Last modified: 8 Mar 97)
Message-Id: <null>
Administrivia:
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------------------------------
End of Perl-Users Digest V8 Issue 2687
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