[8992] in Perl-Users-Digest
Perl-Users Digest, Issue: 2610 Volume: 8
daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (Perl-Users Digest)
Fri May 15 14:17:35 1998
Date: Fri, 15 May 98 11:01:00 -0700
From: Perl-Users Digest <Perl-Users-Request@ruby.OCE.ORST.EDU>
To: Perl-Users@ruby.OCE.ORST.EDU (Perl-Users Digest)
Perl-Users Digest Fri, 15 May 1998 Volume: 8 Number: 2610
Today's topics:
'nmake' under Win'95 <andrew@boothman.easynet.co.uk>
Bug in line-number reporting? <kripa@ahimsa.viewlogic.com>
Re: Compiling Perl <andrew@boothman.easynet.co.uk>
Re: Convert military time to unix time routine (brian d foy)
Re: Customer Service <br@ndon.com>
Re: Does Perl have a IDE?I don't like command line. <tchrist@mox.perl.com>
Re: Does Perl have a IDE?I don't like command line. (Stuart McDow)
Re: Does Perl have a IDE?I don't like command line. fsg@ultranet.com
Re: Does Perl have a IDE?I don't like command line. fsg@ultranet.com
Re: Does Perl have a IDE?I don't like command line. (Michael J Gebis)
Re: Does Perl have a IDE?I don't like command line. (Brad Murray)
Re: Does Perl have a IDE?I don't like command line. <tchrist@mox.perl.com>
Re: Does Perl have a IDE?I don't like command line. <tchrist@mox.perl.com>
Re: Does Perl have a IDE?I don't like command line. <tchrist@mox.perl.com>
Re: Does Perl have a IDE?I don't like command line. <tchrist@mox.perl.com>
Re: How to generate random passwords? <due@murray.fordham.edu>
Re: How to generate random passwords? (brian d foy)
net::ftp perlwin32 cwd? <ken.chesak@dhs.state.tx.us>
Re: New Math Modules <aqumsieh@matrox.com>
Re: Print Array adds space when sent to SENDMAIL???? (Andre L.)
Re: Problem with s/// <lr@hpl.hp.com>
Re: Problem with s/// (Douglas Wilson)
Re: Problem with s/// (John Porter)
Re: reading file into an array of hash (brian d foy)
Re: reading file into an array of hash (brian d foy)
Re: TIMTOWTDI - regex vs. if (function) <lr@hpl.hp.com>
Re: TIMTOWTDI - regex vs. if (function) (brian d foy)
why does "my($MyTime) = localtime;" act differently tha <alexander@zko.dec.com>
Re: why does "my($MyTime) = localtime;" act differently <lanier@shell6.ba.best.com>
Re: why does "my($MyTime) = localtime;" act differently <tchrist@mox.perl.com>
Re: why does "my($MyTime) = localtime;" act differently (Jim Allenspach)
Digest Administrivia (Last modified: 8 Mar 97) (Perl-Users-Digest Admin)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Fri, 15 May 1998 17:07:16 +0100
From: Andrew Boothman <andrew@boothman.easynet.co.uk>
Subject: 'nmake' under Win'95
Message-Id: <355C6834.A8939825@boothman.easynet.co.uk>
Hi!
I recently discovered that I can use the 'nmake' command that comes with
MS Visual C++ 5 to interpret the makefiles that perl creates.
But how compatable are the two? Will I be OK, or might I run into
problems? Thanks!
--
Andrew Boothman : andrew@boothman.easynet.co.uk
(http://easyweb.easynet.co.uk/~boothman/andrew/)
"Yahoo is a search engine.
Netanyahoo is an Israeli search engine"
-Robin Williams
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 15 May 1998 13:37:22 -0400
From: "kr.pAsundar" <kripa@ahimsa.viewlogic.com>
Subject: Bug in line-number reporting?
Message-Id: <355C7D52.AC3D4683@ahimsa.viewlogic.com>
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
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Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
--------------6B5748F66E1F6AE05C060EE1
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Dear all,
I use perl 5.002, and i found what seems like a bug in the
line-number reporting mechanism.
If the attached script is run as-is, it gives
"divide-by-zero" error messages with wrong line numbers
(numbers that refer to the enclosing if()'s, where present).
=> $ ./test.pl
=> &if_else(): Illegal division by zero at ./test.pl line 29.
=> ...caught at ./test.pl line 22.
=> &if_return(): Illegal division by zero at ./test.pl line 44.
=> ...caught at ./test.pl line 23.
=> &if_if(): Illegal division by zero at ./test.pl line 53.
=> ...caught at ./test.pl line 24.
=> $
If the "print STDERR ... __LINE__ ..."'s are de-commented,
the bug goes away.
I put the calls inside eval()'s, so that i'll get a chance to
try all three code-flows in one run.
Please help. Thanks.
----------------------8<----------------------8<----------------------
#!/usr/local/bin/perl -w
# Intention: trying to reproduce the bug in divide-by-zero error reporting.
#
# $Source: /u/ahimsa/ksundar/vlog/data/pliopt.failures/bench-proc/RCS/test.pl,v $
# $Revision: 1.4 $; $State: Exp $; $Date: 1998/05/15 16:36:56 $
# Original author: Kripa Sundar
# $Author: ksundar $; $Locker: ksundar $
# Wild perl bug:
# If the "print STDERR ... __LINE__ ..."'s are kept commented, error
# reporting for divide-by-zero gives line numbers that refer to the if().
# The bug goes away if the lines are de-commented, even though those
# print()'s are never going to get executed, because of the
# conditionals.
eval 'exec perl -S $0 ${1+"$@"}'
, $she_sells_seashells++ if $she_sells_seashells; # Keep "-w" happy.
($nt, $bt) = (0, 1);
eval "&if_else"; warn $!;
eval "&if_return"; warn $!;
eval "&if_if"; warn $!;
exit;
sub if_else {
print STDERR "&if_else(): ";
if ($nt eq "--") {
print "ERROR";
} else {
#print STDERR "(line# ", __LINE__, ") " if $fNeverTrue;
print $bt/$nt;
}
} # &if_else()
sub if_return {
print STDERR "&if_return(): ";
if ($nt eq "--") {
print "ERROR";
return;
}
#print STDERR "(line# ", __LINE__, ") " if $fNeverTrue;
print $bt/$nt;
} # &if_return()
sub if_if {
print STDERR "&if_if(): ";
if ($nt eq "--") {
print "ERROR";
return;
}
if ($nt < 555) {
#print STDERR "(line# ", __LINE__, ") " if $fNeverTrue;
print $bt/$nt;
}
} # &if_if()
----------------------8<----------------------8<----------------------
peace,
--kripA
--------------6B5748F66E1F6AE05C060EE1--
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 15 May 1998 15:20:51 +0100
From: Andrew Boothman <andrew@boothman.easynet.co.uk>
Subject: Re: Compiling Perl
Message-Id: <355C4F43.4038CC34@boothman.easynet.co.uk>
Tom Christiansen wrote:
>
> [courtesy cc of this posting sent to cited author via email]
>
> In comp.lang.perl.misc,
> "LauRenCe WonG" <xiaoyu@singnet.com.sg> writes:
> :any good compilers to recommend for perl?
>
> There aren't any.
>
Apart from the rather sexy perl2exe (for Win32) available
on http://www.demobuilder.com
--
Andrew Boothman : andrew@boothman.easynet.co.uk
(http://easyweb.easynet.co.uk/~boothman/andrew/)
"Yahoo is a search engine.
Netanyahoo is an Israeli search engine"
-Robin Williams
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 15 May 1998 13:27:39 -0400
From: comdog@computerdog.com (brian d foy)
Subject: Re: Convert military time to unix time routine
Message-Id: <comdog-ya02408000R1505981327390001@news.panix.com>
Keywords: from just another new york perl hacker
In article <355C35CB.C727B9E6@atltec.com>, Pat Patton <ppatton@atltec.com> posted:
>I am looking for a routine to convert military time to unix time (number
>of seconds from 1 jan 1970), I will be calling this from a ksh script
>passing the time and want the unix time returned to me.
i have such a thing, but before i extract it from the bits i can't
give away, can you tell me about the "military time" input? being
a military sort of person i can think of about five different formats
for that (every agency for the US military branches seems to have
its own thing).
do you mean the normal DOD date/time group (a heinous way to write
a date)?
--
brian d foy <comdog@computerdog.com>
CGI Meta FAQ <URL:http://computerdog.com/CGI_MetaFAQ.html>
Comprehensive Perl Archive Network (CPAN) <URL:http://www.perl.com>
Perl Mongers <URL:http://www.pm.org>
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 15 May 1998 12:51:46 -0400
From: "Brandon L. Golm" <br@ndon.com>
Subject: Re: Customer Service
Message-Id: <355C72A2.6B6E3055@ndon.com>
Tom Christiansen wrote:
>
> When you work in Customer Service, you never have folks who actually
> bothered to read the instructions call in to tell you what a good job
> you're doing. Incoming calls are not because something's working right,
> but because something's missing or broken or confusing--or far more
> likely, simple because the confused caller thinks it is. So you
> end up reading them the manual they have sitting in front of them.
>
> Just like here.
Except you don't get paid.
------------------------------
Date: 15 May 1998 16:54:31 GMT
From: Tom Christiansen <tchrist@mox.perl.com>
Subject: Re: Does Perl have a IDE?I don't like command line.
Message-Id: <6jhs07$n0h$2@csnews.cs.colorado.edu>
Keywords: If you're happy and you know it, clunk your chains.
[courtesy cc of this posting sent to cited author via email]
In comp.lang.perl.misc, chris+usenet@netmonger.net writes:
:but now it's at
:least 90% venom and garbage.
And 90% of the group isn't garbage?
:And the sad part is that I AGREE WITH
:MUCH OF IT, but it's still not worth reading.
Would you like me to kill the thread? Or you could.
(And no, I don't mean uttering the H word.)
:As an Emacs user, I gave up "vi bashing" in my unix infancy.
Ah, now we see the problem. Editor envy! The fact though that you ever
did it means you didn't ever understand it. :-)
:You obviously haven't a clue that there are people
:with ten times as much knowledge and talent as you who use Emacs.
While these people doubtless exist, they certainly aren't
so plentiful as you would allege.
:Some of them WROTE those tools you claim they don't know how to use.
Really? Are you sure? No one I know from the Unix group at Bell
Labs nor CSRG at Berkeley ever used emacs. These are the people who
wrote virtually everything in /bin and /usr/bin, the core tools I'm
referring to.
Your post was even less relevant than mine, you know. It's too bad I
stepped on your holy cow. Please give it some fresh grass and tell it
not to worry because vegetarians are not looking for steak.
--tom
--
"Unix was never designed to keep people from doing stupid things, because
that policy would also keep them from doing clever things." (Doug Gwyn)
VMS is a text-only adventure game. If you win you can use Unix.
------------------------------
Date: 15 May 1998 17:05:29 GMT
From: smcdow@arlut.utexas.edu (Stuart McDow)
Subject: Re: Does Perl have a IDE?I don't like command line.
Message-Id: <6jhskp$rom$1@ns1.arlut.utexas.edu>
Tom Christiansen <tchrist@mox.perl.com> writes:
>
> consider how to telnet into your machine to do the same work
> remotely as you had sitting at the console (ie. telnet style) Or how
> to do remote GUIs (ie. export DISPLAY=foo.bar.com:0 style).
IMO, this has *got* to be one of the biggest drawbacks to The Virus
>From Redmond. But I suspect it wasn't by accident. Not being able to
do remote displays means that one has to buy one computer and one NT
license for every seat.
Imagine if MS introduced (simultaneous) multi-user capability *and*
the ability to do remote display. I know what I'd do. I'd buy one or
two powerful server machines and a whole bunch of cheapo display
terminals for users. And, of course, there's no money in that, is
there? Why, PC makers all over the world would have a fit if such
capacity were introduced for Wintel platforms. That's why we'll never
see it. "The network is the computer?" "Open systems?" That's all very
well and good, but it doesn't generate nearly as much revenue as the
way MS does it.
> --tom, opposing yesterday's computing tomorrow.
I do, too. But, IMO, tomorrow's computing will be all about generating
as much cash as the market will let them get away with. That's the MS
mentality. How many free IDEs does MS give away? Why is it so hard to
program (as in C/C++, Java, etc, etc) under NT without a (costly) IDE?
NT was designed to be obscure and obtuse on purpose. But, no fear, you
can buy this nice IDE with wizards for a couple hundred dollars that
will make it easier. In fact, it's impossible to write software
without it.
What a joke. Someone in Redmond is having a great laugh on the way to
the bank. They're selling an OS without even a native C compiler,
forcing people to buy their tools. It's all about money (as in we give
our money to them. Do we have a choice?), and we're all fools for
going along with it when better, cheaper alternatives exist.
Microsoft's new, more truthful ad slogan should be: "How can you make
money for us today?"
Of course, if you'd *rather* give your money away (and judging by MS's
profits, most people would), I'll sell you a bridge I've got over
here. :-)
--
Stuart McDow Applied Research Laboratories
smcdow@arlut.utexas.edu The University of Texas at Austin
"Look for beauty in roughness, unpolishedness"
PS. By "we" I mean every one use uses NT and an unbundled, unfree MS
IDE. As such, I'm not part of "we". Thank goodness.
------------------------------
Date: 15 May 1998 13:13:30 -0400
From: fsg@ultranet.com
Subject: Re: Does Perl have a IDE?I don't like command line.
Message-Id: <6jht3q$nn$1@ultranet.com>
gbacon@cs.uah.edu (Greg Bacon) writes:
>fsg@ultranet.com writes:
>: In our imperfect reality, IDEs really are tools
>: that perform a certain function; and many people's needs really are
>: completely filled by them.
>Believe it or not, I once used an IDE. It was Borland C++ version 3.5
>on a DOS machine. I used it because I could have multiple files open at
>once and flip around between them. I could compile my code without
>leaving the editor. The IDE was necessary because of the chains in
>which the operating system held me. Claiming the need for an IDE is
>admitting to using a very challenged system.
IDEs do more than flip windows; for instance, in Borland's C++Builder 3
product, which has a great IDE, I can put my cursor over a variable
in the source of a running program and see what the value of the variable
is. Sounds odd, but it's an immense timesaver. The IDE also makes
the annoying and tedious part of writing win32 programs (designing the
interface) trivial, which is good, because I've got better things to worry
about than implementing a button. And of course, all of the tools (editor,
debugger, compiler, libraries) work together in harmony so I don't have to
worry about tool-to-tool communication conflicts.
It's much the same reason why people buy Macs. Macs are truly excellent
machines. I love Macs. I would never be caught dead using a Mac, but
like win32, like Unix, like Perl, like C++, like COBOL, everything really
does have a time and a place. You should accept that.
>: Surprising as it may be to you, a whole lot
>: of people are happy writing forms programs in Access.
>But I suspect many of these people aren't programmers. They're
>assembling black boxes to make one slow, monolothic black box. This is
>no more programming that swapping parts in a car is automobile design.
It seems that you and Tom are both bothered more by nomenclature and
what the people call themselves than anything else. If they called
themselves 'access forms designers', and yet kept doing the exact same
thing, would you be as vocal in your abuse? If not, why not?
>: No, my position is that IDEs are fine.
>They're fine for the people who need the crutch. Programmers should
>learn to program without the crutch or choose less challenged systems.
Perhaps the problem is that you're inexperienced with IDEs. Tell you
what -- why don't you go down to the university store and get Delphi 3,
or C++Builder 3, at a student discount. Play with it for a few days;
if you don't like it, I'll send you a check for the full amount of the
purchase.
IDEs are a 'crutch' in the same way that the regex engine is a 'crutch'.
Much of the work they hide from you is work that you simply never want
to do by hand, no matter what; and the fact that I can no longer code a
regex engine by hand is of no interest or import to me. I've just got
better things to do.
As for the idea of choosing less challenged systems -- that's one reason
why I suggested that you'll learn a lot when you leave school. Not because
I think you're stupid, but because you really haven't seen a lot of the
world yet.
I've been a professional hacker for a number of years now, and only through
the grace of God have I been able to choose my platform. Most of the people
I work with are told what platform to work with. Sometimes the end customer
even specifies the platform explicitly as part of the requirements document.
The idea that 1/5th, if that many, of the programmers out there can 'choose
less challenged systems' is quite seriously a riot.
>: The concept of an IDE is nice for reasons other than buttons and mouse
>: pointing and lots of windows; but you know this. By the way, how do you
>: start those xterms without buttons, windows, or mouse pointers?
>xterm &
And how do you type that in? Do you use a mouse pointer or a window
manager on that X server?
The point is, you're talking personal preference (a little hypocritically,
but that's of no matter), not objective reality. When I was a CS college
student, I often spoke about computers in terms of objective reality. I've
moved on to speaking about everything else in terms of objective reality,
but computers, no sir. So I know where you're coming from, but from
personal experience, I know that it doesn't work.
>: I didn't need to infer; you said it explicitly. Go back and read your
>: posts. They were not just excessively insulting, but obviously and openly
>: so.
>I never said that a Win32 user is necessarily clueless. In fact, I've
>openly stated that there are Win32 users of clue.
Again, I suggest you go back and read your posts. You strain credulity.
>: Nobody screaming and whining piteously at the horrors of win32 people
>: asking questions in comp.lang.perl.misc has yet managed to explain how
>: win32 people are, for instance, like a horrific malignant cancer.
>By their actions, they detract from the usefulness of a great resource.
So set up another resource. Or figure out a way to solve the problem.
Use Perl. Use killfiles. Create a new newsgroup and go there. Start
a mailing list for clue. Set up a web site. Contribute a solution to
the problem. Screaming and whining and insulting people NEVER WORKS,
and only increases the malignancy!
>Why do you suppose Larry has left comp.lang.perl.misc? If you kill
>clpm, you kill one of Perl's biggest selling points and much of its
>usefulness.
Nonsense. clpm is cool and all, but Perl is Perl, and clpm does not
contribute significantly to the 'usefulness' of the language.
I suppose Larry left clpm because he didn't have the time. You will
notice that he didn't start responding to every post with a scathing
diatribe about how their platform sucks. In fact, he's even actively
attempted to bring the win32 people into the fold, and has helped out
trying to get more win32 cooperation and involvement going in the core.
How is your way of blasting everyone more successful than his way of
working within the system?
>I don't object to anyone asking questions solely based on their choice
>(or curse) of operating system. However, I and most (if not all) the
>regulars resent the attitude that we're here to quote from the FAQ each
>time someone is too lazy to figure something out on his own. This goes
>for any platform. It's just that the majority of takers seem to be
>coming from Win32.
Well, I have two suggestions.
1. Don't take it personally. You're likely to notice the outliers on the
curve -- the people who want spoonfeeding and who rant and scream that you
suck if they don't get it. You probably don't notice the hundreds of people
that you help, because by definition they're off busily using the great info
to do their job.
2. If you find yourself taking it personally, do something else. clpm
doesn't need you, or Tom, or Tom, or Chip, or Randal, or me. Nothing
in the Perl distribution you received mandates that you spend your time
getting aggravated.
>: I've thought
>: about it a lot (having briefly been annoyed by the deluge myself), and still
>: think it's great that so many people are trying, however benightedly, to
>: learn Perl. What's your thought?
>Don't get me wrong. I'd like for every clueful person in the world to
>learn and find use of Perl. If nothing else, it will help to perpetuate
>a really great language. I don't see what more we can do to hasten the
>daybreak on the intellectual darkness, however. With the standard Perl
>distribution comes reams of excellent documentation. Included in that
>documentation is the perlbook manpage which lists excellent Perl books
>and even how to purchase them. What would you have us do?
Keep trying, or get out of the way and stop embarrassing the rest of us.
>: 1. Use Perl. Tom has demonstrated a kill file that works for him;
>: I'm sure a kill file plus Perl would work for you, too.
>Ignoring the problem won't make it go away.
Yes, it will. It will make it go away _for_ _you_.
> So long as
>comp.lang.perl.misc is our sole Usenet resource (I'm aware of the
>existence of the other clp.* groups, but those are dedicated to very
>specific aspects of Perl) those who care should pitch in to make it as
>useful as possible. I suspect when clp.moderated comes along, this
>group will become a barren wasteland. I know I'll unsubscribe.
Maybe that'll be a good thing, if you must attack the newbies.
Felix
------------------------------
Date: 15 May 1998 13:16:34 -0400
From: fsg@ultranet.com
Subject: Re: Does Perl have a IDE?I don't like command line.
Message-Id: <6jht9i$ol$1@ultranet.com>
Tom Christiansen <tchrist@mox.perl.com> writes:
>In comp.lang.perl.misc, fsg@ultranet.com writes:
>:This is a USENET problem, not a Perl problem, and it won't cause the
>:downfall of Perl.
>That wasn't the point. The point was that this kind of thing has made
>this newsgroup virtually useless, practically destroying through a
>forever-September combination of ignorance and selfishness a resource
>that had been historically valuable to the Perl community. Now combine
>this with the effective disregard -- and sometimes even scorn -- for
>the man-decades of work we've all spent documenting Perl. Why should
>we care to be part of that world? Why should Perl?
A vast majority of the people who use Perl like the documentation. So
'the effective disregard -- and somtimes even scorn' is limited to only
a tiny fraction of the world. Why does that tiny fraction get under your
skin so?
I've given you a bunch of suggestions for how to make your life easier,
and even improve the quality of the newsgroup. Tell me, what do you
think of them? Is there anything I can do to help you implement them?
Felix
(and do you want to help with Penguin?)
------------------------------
Date: 15 May 1998 17:28:21 GMT
From: gebis@albrecht.ecn.purdue.edu (Michael J Gebis)
Subject: Re: Does Perl have a IDE?I don't like command line.
Message-Id: <6jhtvl$9s0@mozo.cc.purdue.edu>
Keywords: If you're happy and you know it, clunk your chains.
chris+usenet@netmonger.net writes:
}As an Emacs user, I gave up "vi bashing" in my unix infancy. There's
}no point. Both editors work, both are available in a variety of
}free-software forms, and both a very much suited to the Unix Way and
}are certainly on Perl's side in the grand scheme of things.
Remember back in Psych 101, when they told you, "Some people are
visual learners. Some people are audio learners. Some people learn
from doing, some learn from example." Also, remember when Mr. Rogers
told you, "Everbody's different, but everybody's special?"
They were wrong. There's only one right way to do things, and that's
_my_ way. If everybody would just think like I do, we would all be in
agreement. Heck, if your mouse is configured to accelerate at a
different speed than mine, it's an affront to my whole way of life.
--
Mike Gebis gebis@ecn.purdue.edu mgebis@eternal.net
------------------------------
Date: 15 May 1998 09:11:54 -0700
From: murrayb@vansel.alcatel.com (Brad Murray)
Subject: Re: Does Perl have a IDE?I don't like command line.
Message-Id: <6jhpga$5g1@cadre2.vansel.alcatel.com>
It seems suggested...
>Tom writes:
>>All becomes clear: Felix has been lured by the Bill Side
>>of the Force. Time to call mind-control police.
>
>I'm from the "use whatever tool is appropriate" school of software
>design and architecture. If you're suggesting that it's impossible
>to write a program for win32 that was the Right Thing To Do At The
>Time, then you're overindulging in religion a wee.
I have to agree with Felix. I get hired to solve problems. I don't
particularly care what OS the platform occurred on or even why the
issue came up, as long as I have the minimum set of tools I need to
solve the problem. That set usually includes perl and grep and a
command line, which nearly every OS can give me. Hell I'll use cat
(or even *gasp* notepad) as an editor if I have to. They pay me
at least partly because I don't bitch about the OS, but just solve
problems. Okay, I *do* bitch about the OS sometimes, but I don't
claim it makes the problem intractable unless that OS happens to be
CP/M or something like that. At least with perl I *can* solve the
problem on any Unix, VMS, Win32, or OS/2 system in the office. My
employers like that and it makes me feel good to solve problems.
To summarize, I think slagging persons for the OS they operate under
is selling a lot of good people short. Now, I'd like to get my hands
on the bonehead that specified some of these OS's for our office,
but that's a side issue. I don't have to like the OS to solve problems
on machines that run it.
--
Brad Murray "The fall of modern man will be preceded by the
Software Analyst de-evolution of communications to the days of
Alcatel Canada oral tradition." --Tom Christiansen paraphrased
------------------------------
Date: 15 May 1998 17:29:52 GMT
From: Tom Christiansen <tchrist@mox.perl.com>
Subject: Re: Does Perl have a IDE?I don't like command line.
Message-Id: <6jhu2g$qls$2@csnews.cs.colorado.edu>
[courtesy cc of this posting sent to cited author via email]
In comp.lang.perl.misc,
fsg@ultranet.com writes:
:A vast majority of the people who use Perl like the documentation. So
:'the effective disregard -- and somtimes even scorn' is limited to only
:a tiny fraction of the world. Why does that tiny fraction get under your
:skin so?
Because I forgot that I'm only hearing the vocal minority.
--tom
--
*** The previous line contains the naughty word "$&".\n
if /(ibm|apple|awk)/; # :-)
--Larry Wall in the perl man page
------------------------------
Date: 15 May 1998 17:25:40 GMT
From: Tom Christiansen <tchrist@mox.perl.com>
Subject: Re: Does Perl have a IDE?I don't like command line.
Message-Id: <6jhtqk$qls$1@csnews.cs.colorado.edu>
[courtesy cc of this posting sent to cited author via email]
In comp.lang.perl.misc,
smcdow@arlut.utexas.edu (Stuart McDow) writes:
Your analysis of $Bill's strategy to milk every sucker for
every penny he's worth, and then to get at his grandmother's pension fund,
is right on the money.
:That's why we'll never see it.
This is just one of the reasons why $Bill will never produce
decent, useful software. They are antiprogrammer, antiadmin,
prosuckyourpockets.
:How many free IDEs does MS give away? Why is it so hard to
:program (as in C/C++, Java, etc, etc) under NT without a (costly) IDE?
Great questions. But I'm not ready to go all the way to the conspiracy
theory here. I think they are just too stupid to come up with simple,
small, clean, and intuitive interfaces. Any team of the mediocre can
create something complex. It takes minds of singular genius to produce
something simultaneously of startling simplicity and power.
:NT was designed to be obscure and obtuse on purpose.
http://www.kirch.net/unix-nt.html
But I still think they are more idiot than subtle here.
They just can't write good software. So you pay for
their mistakes, in many ways.
:But, no fear, you
:can buy this nice IDE with wizards for a couple hundred dollars that
:will make it easier. In fact, it's impossible to write software
:without it.
:
:What a joke. Someone in Redmond is having a great laugh on the way to
:the bank.
Yup. That's their goal, remember, a goal that's really contrary
to that of the programmer or administrator. We just want
to get our jobs done. $Bill just wants to become $$Bill.
These aren't even marginallly congruent.
:Of course, if you'd *rather* give your money away (and judging by MS's
:profits, most people would)
I have never bought, sold, nor stolen a piece of software
in my life, and would rather quit the industry than become
a thrall of $Bill, or even touch his slimy idiocy.
--tom
--
"If you think Emacs is such a great editor, just look what it did for
Richard Stallman's typing skills!"
------------------------------
Date: 15 May 1998 17:35:10 GMT
From: Tom Christiansen <tchrist@mox.perl.com>
Subject: Re: Does Perl have a IDE?I don't like command line.
Message-Id: <6jhuce$qls$3@csnews.cs.colorado.edu>
[courtesy cc of this posting sent to cited author via email]
In comp.lang.perl.misc, fsg@ultranet.com writes:
:Perhaps the problem is that you're inexperienced with IDEs. Tell you
:what -- why don't you go down to the university store and get Delphi 3,
:or C++Builder 3,
I'm a software professional of the multiuser school. The half-dozen boxes
at my house all have the benefit of running with an operating systems.
No one sells anything for me, even if I did want to buy it.
When folks walk in and see the many computers here, they bubble about
"What games do you have?" I show them that both gcc and Perl are
available, but they never seem to play with them much, or derive the
pleasures that I do in constructing new toys.
Eventually I point them at nethack. They're always disappointed
that it doesn't have sound.
--tom
--
"Perl5, surprisingly, makes it very easy to do OO programming. I suspect
that it does this much better than Larry ever intended."
--Dean Roehrich in <1994Oct5.140720.1511@driftwood.cray.com>
------------------------------
Date: 15 May 1998 17:39:54 GMT
From: Tom Christiansen <tchrist@mox.perl.com>
Subject: Re: Does Perl have a IDE?I don't like command line.
Message-Id: <6jhula$qls$5@csnews.cs.colorado.edu>
Keywords: If you're happy and you know it, clunk your chains.
[courtesy cc of this posting sent to cited author via email]
In comp.lang.perl.misc,
gebis@albrecht.ecn.purdue.edu (Michael J Gebis) writes:
:There's only one right way to do things, and that's
:_my_ way. If everybody would just think like I do, we would all be in
:agreement.
Yes, $Bill. :-)
--tom
--
Ken is very smart but also very opinionated. --Doug Gwyn
------------------------------
Date: 15 May 1998 17:30:11 GMT
From: "Allan M. Due" <due@murray.fordham.edu>
Subject: Re: How to generate random passwords?
Message-Id: <6jhu33$sn0$0@206.165.146.155>
Jennifer,
Ok, I just had to take a shot at this. Here is my attempt at a
solution. No guarantees, just interested to see how far off I am when
others post their solutions. Or/and they point out the errors in mine :-).
Allan M. Due
#!/usr/bin/perl -w
#use strict;
my $New_Password = &rand_pass(8);
print $New_Password, "\n";
#------------------------------------
sub rand_pass {
# as another option if you want all printable chars
# my $add = 93;
# my $start = 33;
my $add = 65;
my $start = 57;
my $pass_length = $_[0];
my $i;
my $password;
srand(time ^ ($$ + ($$ << 15)) );
for ($i=0; $i < $pass_length; $i++) {
my $char = chr(int(rand($start)) + $add);
$password .= $char;
}
return $password;
}
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 15 May 1998 13:44:24 -0400
From: comdog@computerdog.com (brian d foy)
Subject: Re: How to generate random passwords?
Message-Id: <comdog-ya02408000R1505981344240001@news.panix.com>
Keywords: from just another new york perl hacker
In article <355C5397.F27805A1@kci.wayne.edu>, Jennifer Telisky <teliskyj@kci.wayne.edu> posted:
>I have this script that will create user accounts, however I need to
>assign a password at the same time. Any help on generating a random
>password and updating the passwd file will be appreciated.
i don't mess with passwd files, but i've used this script as a start
to injecting lots of passwds into a database for web authentication
thingys. salt to taste:
#!/usr/bin/perl
open(FILE, "> $ARGV[0]") or die "could not open $ARGV[0]: $!";
#so i know which set of passwds i have
print FILE "SERIES: ", time % 1000, "\n\n";
my $i;
#in this case, the usernames were numbers - 14999 of them!.
for ( $i = 1; $i < 15000; $i++)
{
my $word;
# 8 because that's all crypt cares about. adjust how you like
while (length $word != 8 )
{
#choose a number
my $number = int(rand(127));
next if $number < 42;
#make the number a character and append to $word
$word .= chr($number);
}
printf FILE ("%05d\t%s\n", $i, $word);
}
--
brian d foy <comdog@computerdog.com>
CGI Meta FAQ <URL:http://computerdog.com/CGI_MetaFAQ.html>
Comprehensive Perl Archive Network (CPAN) <URL:http://www.perl.com>
Perl Mongers <URL:http://www.pm.org>
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 15 May 1998 12:16:30 -0500
From: Ken Chesak <ken.chesak@dhs.state.tx.us>
Subject: net::ftp perlwin32 cwd?
Message-Id: <355C786D.48D74FEF@dhs.state.tx.us>
I have a simple question, how do I set the type to ascii and change
directories. The program runs but wont do these 2 items. Using Perl
5.004_02 on NT.
use Net::FTP;
$ftp=Net::FTP->new("$host",Debug=>1);
$ftp->login("account","pwd");
$ftp->cwd("d:/");
$ftp->cwd("/netscape/server/docs/bin");
^^^^^^^doesnot work ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
my @dirs = $ftp->dir();
foreach (@dirs) {print "dir=$_\n";}
$ftp->type(ascii);
^^^^doesnotwork^^^^^
$ftp->get("upload16.cmd","c:/perltest/upload16.cmd");
Thanks
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 15 May 1998 12:58:16 -0400
From: Ala Qumsieh <aqumsieh@matrox.com>
Subject: Re: New Math Modules
Message-Id: <355C7428.8D1F6D14@matrox.com>
Ilya Zakharevich wrote:
> I do not think anyone will be able to deduce what you did from this
> description. I also hope that you investigated Math::Pari before
> doing your work.
I will clarify.
First of all, I checked Math::Pari. I am not exactly familiar with PARI but I
don't think my modules operate similarly. (please correct me if I'm wrong).
My modules perform *symbolic* manipulation on a given string. For example, I
have a function called simplify which tries to find the simplest form of an
algebraic expression:
$expr = '(((-5x^0.5 * 2x) / (3x^2 + -(2x * 3x))) + 4x^-0.5)';
$result = simplify($expr);
$result now contains "7.33333333333333x^-0.5"
A couple of more functions do symbolic integration and differentiation. So:
$expr = '3x^2 - 5x';
$result1 = deriv($expr); # $result1 will now contain '6x^1 -
5x^0'
$result2 = integ($expr); # $result2 will now contain 'x^3 -
2.5x^2'
If this is supported by PARI then I rest my case ;-)
--
Ala Qumsieh | No .. not just another
ASIC Design Engineer | Perl Hacker!!!!!
Matrox Graphics Inc. |
Montreal, Quebec | (Not yet!)
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 15 May 1998 13:39:22 -0500
From: alecler@cam.org (Andre L.)
Subject: Re: Print Array adds space when sent to SENDMAIL????
Message-Id: <alecler-1505981339220001@dialup-578.hip.cam.org>
An array in a here document is interpolated as in a double-quoted string.
Hence, the list separator ($", which is a space by default) is inserted
between the elements of the array. See perlvar.
Solution: either assign the empty string '' to $", or, better, rewrite
your print statement to make it so that the array is not interpolated, as
in
print "This\n", "That\n\n", @array;
Of course, there are modules that handle HTML forms, like CGI.pm... Where
have I heard of this...?
HTH,
A.L.
======================
In article <355C5CC4.1DBAF7C2@io.com>, tag@io.com wrote:
> I was writing a PERL script to format an HTML form. I was parsing each
> newline into an array index when I started noticing that a white space was
> inserted at the beginning of each line EXCEPT the first, so I tried this:
>
> @array = ("cat","dog","pig","goat");
>
> open (SENDMAIL, "| /usr/lib/sendmail -t -n");
>
> print SENDMAIL <<End_of_Mail;
> From: tag\@io.com
> To: tag\@io.com
>
> @array;
>
> End_of_Mail
>
> close(SENDMAIL);
>
> exit;
>
> In the email body I got this:
>
> cat dog pig goat
>
> but at the CL I got:
>
> catdogpiggoat
>
> Anybody know what gives???
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 15 May 1998 09:55:17 -0700
From: "Larry Rosler" <lr@hpl.hp.com>
Subject: Re: Problem with s///
Message-Id: <6jhs23$mpq@hplntx.hpl.hp.com>
[posted and emailed]
Collin Rogowski wrote in message <355c6d13.5533236@news.uni-X.net>...
>#!/usr/local/bin/perl -w
>
>use strict;
>
>my $t = '(a -> (a -> b)) -> (a -> b)';
>my $s = 'a -> (a -> b)';
>
>$t =~ s/$s//g;
>
>
>Why doesn't s/// replace $s in $t. To match $s with $t you just have
>to shift one pos to the right.
>I'm going crazy on this. Please help.
The parentheses in $s have special meanings in the regex. Look at
'perldoc -f quotemeta' and its possible invocation via '\Q'.
--
Larry Rosler
Hewlett-Packard Laboratories
lr@hpl.hp.com
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 15 May 1998 17:11:00 GMT
From: dgwilson@gte.net (Douglas Wilson)
Subject: Re: Problem with s///
Message-Id: <6jhspl$3i8$1@gte2.gte.net>
On Fri, 15 May 1998 16:29:50 GMT, collin@rogowski.de (Collin Rogowski)
wrote:
>my $t = '(a -> (a -> b)) -> (a -> b)';
>my $s = 'a -> (a -> b)';
>
>$t =~ s/$s//g;
$t=~s/\Q$s\E//g;
'(' and ')' are special characters.
Hope this helps,
Douglas Wilson
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 15 May 1998 17:27:06 GMT
From: jdporter@min.net (John Porter)
Subject: Re: Problem with s///
Message-Id: <MPG.fc6468b24abf38d9896cd@news.min.net>
tchrist@mox.perl.com (Tom Christiansen) wrote:
> Perl is to sed as C is to assembly language.
I know you meant it as a tongue-in-cheek aphorism, but
it's rather inaccurate, in that it attributes far too
much power to sed.
John Porter
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 15 May 1998 13:47:18 -0400
From: comdog@computerdog.com (brian d foy)
Subject: Re: reading file into an array of hash
Message-Id: <comdog-ya02408000R1505981347180001@news.panix.com>
Keywords: from just another new york perl hacker
In article <355C550A.22C7BA47@matrox.com>, Ala Qumsieh <aqumsieh@matrox.com> posted:
>> while (<FILE) {
>
>Ooops .. that should've been:
>
>while (<FILE>) { # of course you knew that! ;-)
well, it gets worse. did you try that with warnings on a current
perl? the stuff you read from FILE might spuriously end the while
loop if it evaluates to false.
while( defined( $_ = <FILE> ) ) { ... }
good luck :)
--
brian d foy <comdog@computerdog.com>
CGI Meta FAQ <URL:http://computerdog.com/CGI_MetaFAQ.html>
Comprehensive Perl Archive Network (CPAN) <URL:http://www.perl.com>
Perl Mongers <URL:http://www.pm.org>
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 15 May 1998 13:54:36 -0400
From: comdog@computerdog.com (brian d foy)
Subject: Re: reading file into an array of hash
Message-Id: <comdog-ya02408000R1505981354360001@news.panix.com>
Keywords: from just another new york perl hacker
In article <355C5460.1646AA5D@matrox.com>, Ala Qumsieh <aqumsieh@matrox.com> posted:
>Xah wrote:
>> {
>Not sure why you need this brace for .. that defines a block .. which doesn't
>really hurt, but isn't very useful!
>> local($/) = '-----------';
looks like he wants the block so he can define the local value of
$/, which reverts to its previous value when the block is complete.
utility is often in the eye of the beholder :)
>open File, "$filePath" or die "Can not open file: $!";
no need to use interpolation for one thingy. it's a bad habit that
i've almost purged from my code :)
open File, $filePath or die "Can not open file: $!";
>> my($textBlock);
>> my($i);
>Could've saidmy ($textBlock, $i);
isn't it a bit ridiculous to get this picky? i sometimes prefer
that style because it's easy to comment out the one line then
modify another. still good comments get drowned out in a sea
of stylistic and pedantic nits...
--
brian d foy <comdog@computerdog.com>
CGI Meta FAQ <URL:http://computerdog.com/CGI_MetaFAQ.html>
Comprehensive Perl Archive Network (CPAN) <URL:http://www.perl.com>
Perl Mongers <URL:http://www.pm.org>
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 15 May 1998 09:57:34 -0700
From: "Larry Rosler" <lr@hpl.hp.com>
Subject: Re: TIMTOWTDI - regex vs. if (function)
Message-Id: <6jhs68$mtk@hplntx.hpl.hp.com>
[posted and emailed]
Ala Qumsieh wrote in message <355C5C10.97247F07@matrox.com>...
>Ward Kaatz wrote:
>
>> I considered but avoided use of (s)printf based on the camel book
>> observation (pg 200, 2nd ed.).
>
>I don't see any considerations about using sprintf on that page of the
>camelbook .. or on any other page for that matter!!!
"Don't fall into the trap of using a ~printf~ when a simple ~print~
would do. The ~print~ is more efficient, and less error prone."
--
Larry Rosler
Hewlett-Packard Laboratories
lr@hpl.hp.com
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 15 May 1998 13:58:02 -0400
From: comdog@computerdog.com (brian d foy)
Subject: Re: TIMTOWTDI - regex vs. if (function)
Message-Id: <comdog-ya02408000R1505981358020001@news.panix.com>
Keywords: from just another new york perl hacker
In article <355C5C10.97247F07@matrox.com>, Ala Qumsieh <aqumsieh@matrox.com> posted:
>Ward Kaatz wrote:
>
>> I considered but avoided use of (s)printf based on the camel book
>> observation (pg 200, 2nd ed.).
>
>I don't see any considerations about using sprintf on that page of the
>camelbook .. or on any other page for that matter!!!
it's in the text for the printf function. i beleive he refers to the
last sentence on the page. sometimes, if things are immediately
apparent, a closer reading is warranted.
happy hunting :)
--
brian d foy <comdog@computerdog.com>
CGI Meta FAQ <URL:http://computerdog.com/CGI_MetaFAQ.html>
Comprehensive Perl Archive Network (CPAN) <URL:http://www.perl.com>
Perl Mongers <URL:http://www.pm.org>
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 15 May 1998 13:14:23 -0400
From: "Jack Alexander" <alexander@zko.dec.com>
Subject: why does "my($MyTime) = localtime;" act differently that "my $MyTime = localtime;" ?
Message-Id: <6jht4j$ud0$1@nntpd.lkg.dec.com>
Why do these two routines produce different results? Why does my() change
the behavior of the variable $MyTime?
sub T1()
{
my($MyTime) = localtime;
print "T1 says MyTime is $MyTime\n";
}
T1 says MyTime is 54
sub T2()
{
my $MyTime = localtime;
print "T2 says MyTime is $MyTime\n";
}
T2 says MyTime is Fri May 15 12:33:28 1998
--
Jack Alexander
Digital UNIX Software Development Environments
110 Spitbrook Rd. ZKO2-3/Q08
Nashua, NH 03062, USA
603.884.2459
begin 666 John T Alexander.vcf
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D;0T*4D56.C$Y.3@P-3$U5#$W,30R,UH-"D5.1#I60T%21 T*
`
end
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 15 May 1998 10:48:17 -0700
From: "matthew d. p. k. lanier" <lanier@shell6.ba.best.com>
Subject: Re: why does "my($MyTime) = localtime;" act differently that "my $MyTime = localtime;" ?
Message-Id: <Pine.BSF.3.96.980515104550.17104A-100000@shell6.ba.best.com>
jack-
perl functions are aware of the context in which they are called.
my $time = localtime -> scalar context
my ($time) = localtime -> list context
to read more about these contexts, look in the camel book p 45. you'll be
frustrated until you understand the difference.
matt lanier
matt@saturn5.com
matt@lanier.org
------------------------------
Date: 15 May 1998 17:36:58 GMT
From: Tom Christiansen <tchrist@mox.perl.com>
Subject: Re: why does "my($MyTime) = localtime;" act differently that "my $MyTime = localtime;" ?
Message-Id: <6jhufq$qls$4@csnews.cs.colorado.edu>
[courtesy cc of this posting sent to cited author via email]
In comp.lang.perl.misc, "Jack Alexander" <alexander@zko.dec.com> writes:
:Why do these two routines produce different results? Why does my() change
:the behavior of the variable $MyTime?
:
: my($MyTime) = localtime;
: my $MyTime = localtime;
Camel Quote:
You will be miserable until you learn the difference between scalar
and list context, because certain operators know which context they
are in, and return lists in contexts wanting a list, and scalar values
in contexts wanting a scalar. (If this is true of an operation,
it will be mentioned in the documentation for that operation.)
In computer lingo, the functions are \fIoverloaded\fP on the type
of their return value. But it's a very simple kind of overloading,
based only on the distinction between singular and plural values,
and nothing else.
--tom
--
If you want to see useful Perl examples, we can certainly arrange to have
comp.lang.misc flooded with them, but I don't think that would help the
advance of civilization. :-) --Larry Wall in <1992Mar5.180926.19041@netlabs.com>
------------------------------
Date: 15 May 1998 12:50:40 -0500
From: jima@MCS.COM (Jim Allenspach)
Subject: Re: why does "my($MyTime) = localtime;" act differently that "my $MyTime = localtime;" ?
Message-Id: <6jhv9g$idn@Mercury.mcs.net>
>Why do these two routines produce different results? Why does my() change
>the behavior of the variable $MyTime?
> my($MyTime) = localtime;
> my $MyTime = localtime;
Because localtime() can return a scalar or a list, depending on
what kind of variable(s) you're putting the value into. (With the parentheses
in my(), you're saying that you're expecting a list of values; without the
parentheses, a scalar.)
Further info on localtime() can be found in your local Perl
documentation (or, if you're Web-inclined, http://language.perl.com/faq/),
under the perlfunc section. Hope this helps.
jma
------------------------------
Date: 8 Mar 97 21:33:47 GMT (Last modified)
From: Perl-Request@ruby.oce.orst.edu (Perl-Users-Digest Admin)
Subject: Digest Administrivia (Last modified: 8 Mar 97)
Message-Id: <null>
Administrivia:
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------------------------------
End of Perl-Users Digest V8 Issue 2610
**************************************
