[8983] in Perl-Users-Digest
Perl-Users Digest, Issue: 2601 Volume: 8
daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (Perl-Users Digest)
Thu May 14 19:08:05 1998
Date: Thu, 14 May 98 16:00:52 -0700
From: Perl-Users Digest <Perl-Users-Request@ruby.OCE.ORST.EDU>
To: Perl-Users@ruby.OCE.ORST.EDU (Perl-Users Digest)
Perl-Users Digest Thu, 14 May 1998 Volume: 8 Number: 2601
Today's topics:
Addresses <Richard.A@Torguish.com>
Re: Addresses <rootbeer@teleport.com>
Re: Addresses <tchrist@mox.perl.com>
Re: Addresses <tchrist@mox.perl.com>
Re: Array question (Greg Bacon)
Re: clp.moderated (Greg Bacon)
Re: Does Perl have a IDE?I don't like command line. (Greg Bacon)
Re: Does Perl have a IDE?I don't like command line. <tchrist@mox.perl.com>
Re: Does Perl have a IDE?I don't like command line. <tchrist@mox.perl.com>
Re: Does Perl have a IDE?I don't like command line. <rra@stanford.edu>
Re: Does Perl have a IDE?I don't like command line. <tchrist@mox.perl.com>
Re: Does Perl have a IDE?I don't like command line. <tchrist@mox.perl.com>
Re: Does Perl have a IDE?I don't like command line. <tchrist@mox.perl.com>
HELP: Need Perl for Macintosh (Baseman)
Digest Administrivia (Last modified: 8 Mar 97) (Perl-Users-Digest Admin)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Thu, 14 May 1998 10:55:30 +0100
From: "Richard Allan" <Richard.A@Torguish.com>
Subject: Addresses
Message-Id: <6jfpi6$ink$1@news.enterprise.net>
Is it possible to access a system address for read/write. ie to access an
expansion card?
Richard Allan
RichardA@RichardA.com
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 14 May 1998 22:27:06 GMT
From: Tom Phoenix <rootbeer@teleport.com>
To: Richard Allan <Richard.A@Torguish.com>
Subject: Re: Addresses
Message-Id: <Pine.GSO.3.96.980514152144.17330O-100000@user2.teleport.com>
On Thu, 14 May 1998, Richard Allan wrote:
> Is it possible to access a system address for read/write. ie to access
> an expansion card?
Yes, but not directly from perl; you'll need to go through a compiled
module. You may want to see about the Tie::Mem module; I don't know
whether that will do what you need. Hope this helps!
--
Tom Phoenix Perl Training and Hacking Esperanto
Randal Schwartz Case: http://www.rahul.net/jeffrey/ovs/
------------------------------
Date: 14 May 1998 22:14:01 GMT
From: Tom Christiansen <tchrist@mox.perl.com>
Subject: Re: Addresses
Message-Id: <6jfqb9$o5i$12@csnews.cs.colorado.edu>
[courtesy cc of this posting sent to cited author via email]
In comp.lang.perl.misc,
"Richard Allan" <Richard.A@Torguish.com> writes:
:Is it possible to access a system address for read/write. ie to access an
:expansion card?
Are you trying to do peek and poke to exact memory locations?
One can, but it's not very easy. There's are p/P templates
in pack/unpack for that. Good luck!!!
--tom
--
X-Windows: Sometimes you fill a vacuum and it still sucks.
--Jamie Zawinski
------------------------------
Date: 14 May 1998 22:36:27 GMT
From: Tom Christiansen <tchrist@mox.perl.com>
Subject: Re: Addresses
Message-Id: <6jfrlb$4k$1@csnews.cs.colorado.edu>
[courtesy cc of this posting sent to cited author via email]
In comp.lang.perl.misc,
Tom Phoenix <rootbeer@teleport.com> writes:
:Yes, but not directly from perl; you'll need to go through a compiled
:module.
What's wrong with the p and P templates?
--tom
--
I might be able to shoehorn a reference count in on top of the numeric
value by disallowing multiple references on scalars with a numeric value,
but it wouldn't be as clean. I do occasionally worry about that. --lwall
------------------------------
Date: 14 May 1998 22:07:47 GMT
From: gbacon@cs.uah.edu (Greg Bacon)
Subject: Re: Array question
Message-Id: <6jfpvj$kpg$9@info.uah.edu>
In article <355B433D.A53EE5AC@yahoo.comjava>,
Stylin <stylinsty@yahoo.comJAVA> writes:
: The length of an array seems to be given by '@arrayname' as well as
: '$#arrayname'
This isn't quite accurate. As the perldata manpage explains, the
expression $#array gives the last index in @array, or -1 if @array is
empty. In most cases (probably all except tied arrays), the following
relationship holds:
$#array == @array - 1
An array in scalar context (like C<@array - 1> above) returns the number
of elements in the array.
: My book explains that '$#arrayname' gives you the length as well as the
: ability to assign a length to it- thus changing the arrays size.
It's half correct. I would suggest purchasing a better book, like the
Camel or the Llama (Programming Perl and Learning Perl, respectively).
Assigning to $#array does change the number of elements in @array (and,
hence, scalar(@array)) by adding undefined values if expanding or
discarding values if shrinking.
: so $length = @array name
: and
: $length = $#arrayname
:
: Is there a better time to use either?
It depends on whether you want the number of elements in the array or
the highest index into the array.
: I need to count the occurances of strings in a variable that changes in
: a loop.
: Without hardcoding I figured a good solution would be to add an array
: string element and an array count element if the string does not already
: exist in the array. If it does just add 1 to the count.
I suggest reading the answer to ``How do I efficiently match many
regular expressions at once?'' in section six of the excellent Perl FAQ.
It will give you a way to count substrings in a loop without your
performance dropping through the floor.
Hope this helps,
Greg
--
open(G,"|gzip -dc");$_=<<EOF;s/[0-9a-f]+/print G pack("h*",$&)/eg
f1b88000b620f22320303fa2d2e21584ccbcf29c84d2258084
d2ac158c84c4ece4d22d1000118a8d5491000000
EOF
------------------------------
Date: 14 May 1998 21:59:11 GMT
From: gbacon@cs.uah.edu (Greg Bacon)
Subject: Re: clp.moderated
Message-Id: <6jfpff$kpg$8@info.uah.edu>
In article <355B3B96.FC8E9E51@fccjmail.fccj.org>,
Bill 'Sneex' Jones <webmaster@fccjmail.fccj.org> writes:
: Status?
I'm told by a reliable source that it still awaits a very important
endorsement. Until then, we can only wait with delicious anticipation.
Greg
--
open(G,"|gzip -dc");$_=<<EOF;s/[0-9a-f]+/print G pack("h*",$&)/eg
f1b88000b620f22320303fa2d2e21584ccbcf29c84d2258084
d2ac158c84c4ece4d22d1000118a8d5491000000
EOF
------------------------------
Date: 14 May 1998 21:55:33 GMT
From: gbacon@cs.uah.edu (Greg Bacon)
Subject: Re: Does Perl have a IDE?I don't like command line.
Message-Id: <6jfp8l$kpg$7@info.uah.edu>
In article <6jf70d$1dd$1@gallo.ultranet.com>,
fsg@gallo.ultranet.com writes:
: gbacon@cs.uah.edu (Greg Bacon) writes:
: >The very act of exposing Perl's pristine beauty to the unappreciative,
: >unthinking, and, hence, unworthy clueless droves of lose32 users is
: >dumbing down the language.
:
: When you get out of school, you will realize that the world is composed
: of many different kinds of people.
Why do you focus so intently on the same point? Do you believe that
because I don't possess a piece of sheepskin with my name on it and
certain strings of letters proudly impressed upon it that I have less of
a right to formulate and express opinions? Get real. I can name at
least two highly respected {P,p}erl hackers who don't have degrees.
: For instance, there is a large
: segment of people for whom using computers is not the overriding life goal.
: These people would like to use computers, perhaps, to help make their
: lives easier; but realistically, they don't want to know about backtracking.
: Like programmers with "make", they are pleased just that it works, without
: knowing the details of how.
You're missing my point. The very essence of being a programmer is, as
Tom C. put it, developing an ``algorithmic mentality''. Whether or not
one knows or even cares what goes on behind the scenes, all is lost
without the ability to formulate algorithms.
: Another thing you will learn, I hope before you get out of school, is how
: to have a coherent and logical thought. When you say that the 'act of
: exposing Perl's ... beauty to the ... droves of ... users is dumbing
: down the language', you are obviously confused or mistyping. The act
: of exposing Perl's beauty has no effect on the language whatsoever. Perl5
: is Perl5, whether or not it resides on an OS/2, Unix, or Windows operating
: system.
Larry himself has said that Perl is just as much its community as it is
the set of machine language programs which we think of as implementing
Perl. Perl, like Unix whose principles and philosophies it contains, is
much larger than mere software.
: It would certainly be helpful for Perl-as-a-community if the arrogant
: and illogical posters among us who appear to get extremely anxious at
: the concept of someone they don't approve of learning the Perl language
: would follow suit and use the Perl language to avoid getting themselves
: so riled up that they post embarrassingly incoherent and unpleasant
: attacks that lower the signal to noise ratio of the main perl newsgroup.
Funny that you should choose to acknowledge the Perl Community when it's
convenient for you. What was it you were telling me about reality?
I have never claimed to disapprove of anyone learning Perl, and I defy
you to provide evidence to the contrary. As for my arguments being
``embarrassingly incoherent'', I suggest you go back and reconsider my
words in light of what I've said in response to you.
I feel the need to reiterate that I respect the very cool work you've
done for and with Perl as well as the vision you've shared with the
community. However, I don't see this as license to attack me for no
good reason.
Greg
--
open(G,"|gzip -dc");$_=<<EOF;s/[0-9a-f]+/print G pack("h*",$&)/eg
f1b88000b620f22320303fa2d2e21584ccbcf29c84d2258084
d2ac158c84c4ece4d22d1000118a8d5491000000
EOF
------------------------------
Date: 14 May 1998 21:48:32 GMT
From: Tom Christiansen <tchrist@mox.perl.com>
Subject: Re: Does Perl have a IDE?I don't like command line.
Message-Id: <6jforg$o5i$7@csnews.cs.colorado.edu>
Keywords: If you're happy and you know it, clunk your chains.
[courtesy cc of this posting sent to cited author via email]
In comp.lang.perl.misc,
murrayb@vansel.alcatel.com writes:
:So at what point does this IDE become redundant because you are doing
:work already available via the operating system?
That's the whole point. These silly things -- including emacs -- are
best for people who don't know how to use the tools that came with
their operating system. And they'll never learn them either, since
they aren't using them. It's like emacs weenies who freak out
when you autoreformat paragraphs in vi. Folks who never learned the
multiple-tool philosophy and orthogonal command set are stumped.
--tom
--
Timesharing: the use of several people by the computer
------------------------------
Date: 14 May 1998 21:49:07 GMT
From: Tom Christiansen <tchrist@mox.perl.com>
Subject: Re: Does Perl have a IDE?I don't like command line.
Message-Id: <6jfosj$o5i$8@csnews.cs.colorado.edu>
Keywords: If you're happy and you know it, clunk your chains.
[courtesy cc of this posting sent to cited author via email]
In comp.lang.perl.misc, murrayb@vansel.alcatel.com writes:
:Nothing if you have the RAM to kill for such things. I don't believe it
:would be useful and I think it's a waste of energy. If it attracts non-
:programmers to Perl I think it may even qualify as misguided or destructive.
Very well put.
--tom
--
Supercomputer - a computer that can complete an endless loop in under 5 minutes
------------------------------
Date: 14 May 1998 15:05:57 -0700
From: Russ Allbery <rra@stanford.edu>
Subject: Re: Does Perl have a IDE?I don't like command line.
Message-Id: <m3k97oa4oq.fsf@windlord.Stanford.EDU>
Igor Krivokon <igor.k@usa.net> writes:
> Chip Salzenberg wrote in message <6jfi93$1j6$1@cyprus.atlantic.net>...
>> According to fsg@gallo.ultranet.com:
>>> I haven't met a programmer yet who doesn't use them whenever available.
>> (Chip raises his hand)
> Oh, really? You have never used CPAN.pm or Makefile.PL, right?
I think that people on both sides of this argument may have a much easier
time understanding what each other are talking about if someone clearly
explains the differences between a "wizard," a "library," and a "tool."
--
#!/usr/bin/perl -- Russ Allbery, Just Another Perl Hacker
$^=q;@!>~|{>krw>yn{u<$$<[~||<Juukn{=,<S~|}<Jwx}qn{<Yn{u<Qjltn{ > 0gFzD gD,
00Fz, 0,,( 0hF 0g)F/=, 0> "L$/GEIFewe{,$/ 0C$~> "@=,m,|,(e 0.), 01,pnn,y{
rw} >;,$0=q,$,,($_=$^)=~y,$/ C-~><@=\n\r,-~$:-u/ #y,d,s,(\$.),$1,gee,print
------------------------------
Date: 14 May 1998 21:58:02 GMT
From: Tom Christiansen <tchrist@mox.perl.com>
Subject: Re: Does Perl have a IDE?I don't like command line.
Message-Id: <6jfpda$o5i$10@csnews.cs.colorado.edu>
[courtesy cc of this posting sent to cited author via email]
In comp.lang.perl.misc,
Greg Bacon <gbacon@cs.uah.edu> writes:
:Being a programmer requires gifts that not everyone possesses.
:Why does everyone think programming is a special case among professions?
Strange, isn't it?
--tom
--
I think I'm likely to be certified before Perl is... :-)
--Larry Wall in <1995Feb12.061604.6008@netlabs.com>
------------------------------
Date: 14 May 1998 22:02:11 GMT
From: Tom Christiansen <tchrist@mox.perl.com>
Subject: Re: Does Perl have a IDE?I don't like command line.
Message-Id: <6jfpl3$o5i$11@csnews.cs.colorado.edu>
In comp.lang.perl.misc, fsg@gallo.ultranet.com writes:
:When you get out of school, ...
:
:Another thing you will learn, I hope before you get out of school, is how
:to have a coherent and logical thought.
Is it just me, or are things starting to smell distinctly
ad hominem at Felix's keyboard?
:It would certainly be helpful for Perl-as-a-community
Speaking of being helpful for Perl-as-a-community,
how's Penguin coming along?
--tom
--
"If you only have a nail, you tend to see every hammer as a problem."
--Larry Wall
------------------------------
Date: 14 May 1998 22:21:25 GMT
From: Tom Christiansen <tchrist@mox.perl.com>
Subject: Re: Does Perl have a IDE?I don't like command line.
Message-Id: <6jfqp5$o5i$13@csnews.cs.colorado.edu>
[courtesy cc of this posting sent to cited author via email]
In comp.lang.perl.misc,
Russ Allbery <rra@stanford.edu> writes:
:time understanding what each other are talking about if someone clearly
:explains the differences between a "wizard," a "library," and a "tool."
I am not planninng on surrendering the term "wizard" to the
nonprogrammers. What does it really mean? Well, you should see how
many hits the Wizard screen gets at http://mox.perl.com/cgi-bin/MxScreen
But that's ok. I don't give in to "hacker" to mean a criminal
either. Or DOS an operating system. :-)
--tom
--
There's no such thing as a simple cache bug. --Rob Pike
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 14 May 1998 23:50:26 +0200
From: takashi@dds.nl (Baseman)
Subject: HELP: Need Perl for Macintosh
Message-Id: <takashi-1405982351060001@195.11.251.156>
Does anyone know where I can get Perl for the Mac? If its possible the
latest version.
Please email me at
takashi@dds.nl
Thanx a lot,
Baseman
------------------------------
Date: 8 Mar 97 21:33:47 GMT (Last modified)
From: Perl-Request@ruby.oce.orst.edu (Perl-Users-Digest Admin)
Subject: Digest Administrivia (Last modified: 8 Mar 97)
Message-Id: <null>
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------------------------------
End of Perl-Users Digest V8 Issue 2601
**************************************
