[8894] in Perl-Users-Digest
Perl-Users Digest, Issue: 2511 Volume: 8
daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (Perl-Users Digest)
Wed May 6 00:07:20 1998
Date: Tue, 5 May 98 21:00:28 -0700
From: Perl-Users Digest <Perl-Users-Request@ruby.OCE.ORST.EDU>
To: Perl-Users@ruby.OCE.ORST.EDU (Perl-Users Digest)
Perl-Users Digest Tue, 5 May 1998 Volume: 8 Number: 2511
Today's topics:
Re: Accessing ACCESS database ?? <metcher@spider.herston.uq.edu.au>
Re: Ever Wonder Why Not Everyone Uses Modules? (Brett Tabke)
Re: Ever Wonder Why Not Everyone Uses Modules? (Brett Tabke)
Re: Ever Wonder Why Not Everyone Uses Modules? (Brett Tabke)
Re: Ever Wonder Why Not Everyone Uses Modules? (Chris Adams)
Re: Help choosing names =~ Perl-SQL <glew@cs.wisc.edu>
Re: How to clear browser Cache with perl (Rahul Dhesi)
How to compare to files (BrandSoft)
How to upload file <arcadiev@usa.net>
Re: how to write error log msg when using multiple modu <akushner@cup.hp.com>
Re: implemented by XS functions really faster? (Ilya Zakharevich)
Localtime--dumb question probably johnny99@sydney.dialix.oz.au
Re: malformed header? <rjk@coos.dartmouth.edu>
Re: need help with hashtable size/memory (Mark-Jason Dominus)
Re: passing .htaccess login info <btate@primary.net>
qq method calls (Tom Mornini)
Share an array <rxk@cobra.jpl.nasa.gov>
Re: Share an array (Martien Verbruggen)
Re: Share an array <tchrist@mox.perl.com>
Re: Using executable pathname to define include path <tchrist@mox.perl.com>
Re: Using executable pathname to define include path <glew@cs.wisc.edu>
Digest Administrivia (Last modified: 8 Mar 97) (Perl-Users-Digest Admin)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Wed, 06 May 1998 11:41:42 +1000
From: Jaime Metcher <metcher@spider.herston.uq.edu.au>
Subject: Re: Accessing ACCESS database ??
Message-Id: <354FBFD6.ADE02EF3@spider.herston.uq.edu.au>
If anyone has any code they want to give away, it's probably already on
CPAN. Otherwise, this group is more likely to help you fix what you've
got than to give you code.
So - run the script with the -w switch. Use "use strict". Read the
docs. Then maybe show us yer code.
--
Jaime Metcher
Yun wrote:
>
> Hi All
>
> I'm new at PERL. Wonder if anyone would be kind enough to help this poor
> kid :P
>
> How do I generate a report (in html) with data from an ACCESS database?
> Does anyone has the code to it?
> Been trying with Win32::ODBC, but keep having compilation errors!
>
> please help!
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 05 May 1998 17:14:00 -0500
From: phdss@writeme.comm (Brett Tabke)
Subject: Re: Ever Wonder Why Not Everyone Uses Modules?
Message-Id: <o84T1IIelAHS092yn@netins.net>
Tom Christiansen <tchrist@mox.perl.com> wrote:
>In comp.lang.perl.misc, phdss at writeme.comm writes:
>:/A:You can usually write the program faster than you can
>Really? Let's see you write Tk. Or libwww. Or even curses for that
>matter. How about Storable? DB_File? Go ahead.
<g> Taken out-of-context, sure, but because you don't like chopped
walnuts on top, doesn't mean you don't like the banana split -
thats why the comments were prefixed with <rant>. No, I don't
believe you can write some of the heavier modules in the time it
would take to install and become proficient with them. I
retrospect, I see how you and others thought my comments were
critical of Perl itself, they were not - if anything they are a
testament to the flexibility of perl. If you don't want to use
modules, then don't (always other ways to do things). I just felt
that the original posters point-of-view had merit.
>:/b:Are other peoples code. You are either a programer or not.
>Just because you're capable of doing something doesn't mean
>you have to. Just because you're capable of cooking your own
>meal thrice a day all your life doesn't mean you want to.
>care to.
Stop and look at it (perl in general) from a different perspective
for a bit (/me hands TC a pair of slightly worn nikes). TC: you
always seem to come back with that "perl is this" or "perl is that"
Such as in another post in the last couple of days you said "perl is
about gluing things together", implying that there is a right way
and only one way to do it. I disagree with that attitude entirely,
Perl is about doing it the way you want, it is about modules,
locals, globals, inloops, outta loops, goto's, subroutines, it is
about the FREEDOM to do it any damn way you want without out big
brother Bill looking over your shoulder dictating how it is to be done.
Another perspective from my mostly pure assembler background, using
other peoples code is also known as copyright infringement or
simply: software piracy. That general attitude is one that has
stuck with me even when using languages that encourage it via
pre-canned libraries or subroutines - it just don't seem right.
>:increased one centilia.
>My guess is the world you're after is scintilla.
I knew that blue-light spell checker proofed by Dan Quayle ;-) was
ill advised.
>:/d:Disk spam. Take libwww for instance: installing it (guessing)
>: 2-4 meg of spam for what? A set of slow running subscripts that
>: accomplish very little that you couldn't do faster manually.
>You are insane. Please go fetch a document by URL, including redirect
>handling,
#!/usr/local/bin/perl -w
$url = "www.perl.com";
$raw_html = `lynx -source $url`;
A few seconds to type in, a few to execute - sure beats days or
prolly months of using a module before you'd have a clue how to do
the above. (mtowtdi)
> and then parse the HTML by yourself into a tree structure that you
> can traverse for modification. Go ahead. You're a programmer,
> after all.
#!/usr/local/bin/perl -w
$url = "www.perl.com";
$ripped_html = `lynx -traversal -realm -crawl $url`;
# the pure text of the site is dumped to files where you
# can do with as you will (mtowtdi)
For the tree part, urls are dumped at the bottom of the resulting
file (in first come first serve fashion) which then becomes a
trivial task of regex'ing it out. The only limitation is your
creativity, not your understanding of a module that pigeon holes
you into its' way of doing things.
Again, perl ultimately *is* about freeing the programmer of someone
else's idea of how to write a program so that limitations aren't the
language or a module but the programmers mind.
sidebar:I bet in the great war, you would have sided with the
Shadows? eg: you come out, kick over a few posts
every-once-in-awhile and see what survives. which leads to your new
nick: Mr. Morden!
<gdr>
BT
--
-- Brett Tabke (phdss at writeme.com)
-- stuff http://www.netins.net/showcase/phdss/
..."Understanding is a three edged sword." -kosh
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 05 May 1998 20:53:50 -0500
From: phdss@writeme.comm (Brett Tabke)
Subject: Re: Ever Wonder Why Not Everyone Uses Modules?
Message-Id: <uK8T1IIeloyD092yn@netins.net>
jdporter@min.net (John Porter) wrote:
>On Mon, 04 May 1998 23:26:42 -0500,
>in article <CUpT1IIelwLS092yn@netins.net>,
>phdss@writeme.comm (phdss@writeme.comm) wrote:
>>
>> Sure you have compiler support? Many of the newer isp's that allow
>> perl cgi wont allow C compilers to run. Mine is that way - don't
>> even have shell access (ftp upload, server sets permissions, and we
>> gets one write directory) - so modules are out of the question. (I
>> wouldn't use them anyway).
>
>How convenient for you! I wouldn't have an account without a shell.
I do have one, but the webserver is a completely different
machine/setup.
>> /A:You can usually write the program faster than you can
>> dial/dl/hangup/install/read docs/fix it/fix the fix/.
>s/usually/never/
s/sometimes/never/
>> And when you are done, you still only have someone elses (usually
>> lame) code that will only do 75% of what you really wanted in the
>> first place.
>Utter b.s. How would you know? You don't use modules!
I've played with my share of them - not to use, just to learn.
Rarely does a module do what I wanted to do in the first place. I
can't think of a one that did exactly what I wanted it to do.
>> /b:Are other peoples code. You are either a programer or not.
>The power and robustness of many modules on CPAN speak for themselves.
>It doesn't matter whether they were written by a programmer, a non-
>programmer, or a dog. They're good code.
But not yours.
>> /d:Disk spam. Take libwww for instance: installing it (guessing)
>> 2-4 meg of spam for what? A set of slow running subscripts that
>> accomplish very little that you couldn't do faster manually.
>You clearly have no clue how very many hours people like Gisle Aas
>have put into their modules to make them useful, robust, and even fast.
I'm sure it was probably thousands of hours, and when done, what is
it? A group of modules that call other modules that in turn call
other modules. This of course is all setting on top of a run-time
compiler built with a compiler running on a compiled operating
system (oh, least we not forget it takes yet another compiler just
to install. Now that is lame code, or what I call "landfill code".
Granted, mine is not a popular (least here anyway) or mainstream
opinion in the dye-in-the-wool Unix/C crowd, yet it is still valid.
>> /e:I don't get how it works, but I'm sure modules are just another
>> MLM scam. ;-) $$ Its FREE!! $$ lol.
>Moron.
Man, you need to get out more - its called sarcasm, check into it.
>Maybe this explains it: he thinks the Commodore is a great computer.
Now who doesn't have a clue? Typing this on a 20mhz 35meg ram, 2gig
scsi, 3.6meg floppy commodore 128D, with a usr X2modem system that
generally runs rings around my p90 running dos/slackware/windows (it
aint the meat, its the motion).
>> ...ML: The only language worth learning in my lifetime. (I'm 35)
>So the main problem with Perl is that it isn't ML? John Porter
No one said there was a problem with Perl.
BT
--
-- Brett Tabke (phdss at writeme.com)
-- hp: http://www.netins.net/showcase/phdss/
...The algorithm is what you wanted...the program is what you got.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 05 May 1998 21:21:29 -0500
From: phdss@writeme.comm (Brett Tabke)
Subject: Re: Ever Wonder Why Not Everyone Uses Modules?
Message-Id: <pk8T1IIelIQc092yn@netins.net>
mcravit+usenet@mcravit.vip.best.com (Matthew Cravit) wrote:
>In article <CUpT1IIelwLS092yn@netins.net>, <phdss@netins.net> wrote:
>>/d:Disk spam. Take libwww for instance: installing it (guessing)
>> 2-4 meg of spam for what? A set of slow running subscripts that
>2-4 megs of spam? Have you actually _looked_ at it? Apart from the rants
>which Tom posted about your silly comment that this module is a set of
>slow subroutines which do nothing that couldn't be more easily done manually,
>let me just point out that the entire libnet distribution, including the
>Makefile.PL, the revision history file, the test suite and some demo code
>which uses it, comprises (when uncompressed and untarred) 205 KB of data.
>The compressed tarfile is 55K.
Have you actually looked at what it takes to install the full
package lately? 3-4 prerequistes plus man pages, it has grown quite
large. And yes using it has proven to be the slowest thing I've
ever run under Perl.
-BT
--
-- Brett Tabke (phdss at writeme.com)
-- stuff http://www.netins.net/showcase/phdss/
...Programmer's Mantra: "Why? Because it *wasn't* there."
------------------------------
Date: 6 May 1998 03:56:42 GMT
From: cadams@ro.com (Chris Adams)
Subject: Re: Ever Wonder Why Not Everyone Uses Modules?
Message-Id: <6ion1q$q4r$1@news.ro.com>
According to Brett Tabke <phdss@writeme.comm>:
>Have you actually looked at what it takes to install the full
>package lately? 3-4 prerequistes plus man pages, it has grown quite
>large. And yes using it has proven to be the slowest thing I've
>ever run under Perl.
libwww requires MD5, MIME-Base64, libnet, and HTML-Parser (which I think
is optional if you don't want to use the HTML features). libnet also
requires Data-Dumper. None of those are very big. And I've never heard
someone complain about a package containing DOCUMENTATION! Give me a
break - would you rather it be a bunch of undocumented stuff?
As for it being slow, for the things I've done it hasn't seemed that
slow.
--
Chris Adams - cadams@ro.com
System Administrator - Renaissance Internet Services
I don't speak for anybody but myself - that's enough trouble.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 05 May 1998 21:34:30 -0500
From: Andy Glew <glew@cs.wisc.edu>
Subject: Re: Help choosing names =~ Perl-SQL
Message-Id: <354FCC35.4536E519@cs.wisc.edu>
For the nonce, I put all of my crap under Perl_SQL::
but I have not yet bothered to rename all of my modules
(mainly because I hate how CVS doesn't handle
renaming files).
------------------------------
Date: 4 May 1998 23:35:48 GMT
From: c.c.eiftj@91.usenet.us.com (Rahul Dhesi)
Subject: Re: How to clear browser Cache with perl
Message-Id: <6iljck$ere$1@samba.rahul.net>
Keywords: from just another new york perl hacker
I too am interesting in doing interesting things to the user's machine
without the user's permission. Then I can control his computer from my
web site, which as everybody knows is what the web is all about.
Control!
For example, how can I write a cgi script in perl to make the user's
computer explode? If not, will a future html specification allow this
to be done?
Granted, I won't want to do this very often. But you might want to
occasionally reformat the usr's disk, no?
Or just delete a few files? Not just in his cache, but in other places
on his disk?
--
Rahul Dhesi <dhesi@spams.r.us.com>
------------------------------
Date: 06 May 1998 02:34:45 GMT
From: brandsoft@aol.com (BrandSoft)
Subject: How to compare to files
Message-Id: <1998050602344500.WAA23813@ladder03.news.aol.com>
Hello,
I am having a problem with my loops not working as I anticipated. The loop is
below. I expect it to take each line of the first file and compare it to everl
line of the second. It returns a pattern of ABABABABABAB or ABBBBBBBBB
depending on my maipulationsa, but not the desired ABBBBBABBBBBABBBBB.
$FILEIN = 'c:\mk\chktab\checktables.txt';
$FILETEMPW = '>c:\mk\chktab\workfile.s1';
$FILETEMPRO = 'c:\mk\chktab\workfile.s1';
$FILEOUT = '>c:\mk\chktab\problem_tables.txt';
$MASTER = 'c:\mk\chktab\alltable.master';
open MASTER;
open FILEOUT;
open FILETEMPRO;
while ($origline=<FILETEMPRO>) {
printf "A";
open MASTER;
while (<MASTER>) {
printf "B";
if ($origline = <MASTER>) {
print FILEOUT ($line);
}
close MASTER;
}
}
close MASTER;
close FILEOUT;
close FILETEMPRO;
Any Help would be greatly appreciated.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 06 May 1998 03:46:48 GMT
From: "Leonid A. Arcadiev" <arcadiev@usa.net>
Subject: How to upload file
Message-Id: <01bd7899$806739e0$94854018@dundas>
Can anyone advice me a script which will upload files?
I know there is such a thing like <INPUT TYPE="FILE" NAME="MYFILE> but when
I try to use it, the only thing I get after submitting a form is the path
to the file I selected (e.g. C:\PROGRAMS\NETSCAPE\SOMETHING.TXT)
How can I upload that file itself?
Looking for your help. Please post a reply or send it to arcadiev@usa.net
Thank you in advance,
Leonid A. Arcadiev.
------------------------------
Date: 6 May 1998 01:45:07 GMT
From: Aaron Kushner <akushner@cup.hp.com>
Subject: Re: how to write error log msg when using multiple modules
Message-Id: <6iofb3$5vj$1@ocean.cup.hp.com>
Mark-Jason Dominus <mjd@op.net> wrote:
> In article <6icudg$7sq$1@ocean.cup.hp.com>,
> Aaron Kushner <akushner@cup.hp.com> wrote:
> If calling a function in another package gives you the willies for
> some silly reason, you can have the module do
> *log_error = \&main::log_error;
> to import it; then log_error(...) will be the same as main::log_error(...);
Mark's suggestion worked great, but why can't I do the same thing with
scalars? The following two print statements in the module below do not
print, but the logmessage function works. What am I missing?
package vtest;
BEGIN {
# $Exporter::Verbose=1;
use Exporter();
use vars qw($VERSION @ISA @EXPORT @EXPORT_OK %EXPORT_TAGS);
@ISA = qw(Exporter);
@EXPORT = qw(&vartest);
#@EXPORT_OK = qw();
#%EXPORT_TAGS = {};
}
*lfile = \$main::logfile;
*logmessage = \&main::logmessage;
print $lfile;
print $main::logfile;
logmessage("test from vtest.pm");
------------------------------
Date: 6 May 1998 01:42:18 GMT
From: ilya@math.ohio-state.edu (Ilya Zakharevich)
Subject: Re: implemented by XS functions really faster?
Message-Id: <6iof5q$aqf$1@mathserv.mps.ohio-state.edu>
[A complimentary Cc of this posting was sent to Tom Phoenix
<rootbeer@teleport.com>],
who wrote in article <Pine.GSO.3.96.980505142038.13101V-100000@user2.teleport.com>:
> > I was browsing through a readme file and it said that this particular
> > code "is implemented by XS functions. This makes it about 20 times
> > faster than the old implementation as pure Perl."
> >
> > Is this an accurate statement?
>
> I hope that the author benchmarked it before making the claim, but I see
> no special reason to doubt it. XS code can be 200 times faster than the
> corresponding Perl, especially if it uses C's strengths and Perl's
> weaknesses.
The question of implementation is a side issue. Entering an XSUB
takes the same time as 2 or 3 perl's opcodes. Entering a Perl
subroutine takes the same time as 100 or 100s of perl's opcodes.
It is hard to compete when the entry tax is so high.
Ilya
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 05 May 1998 21:10:10 -0600
From: johnny99@sydney.dialix.oz.au
Subject: Localtime--dumb question probably
Message-Id: <6iogq2$ge9$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com>
I'm using localtime in a script for a web form, to datestamp the emails it
sends.
I've got
$timesent=localtime;
and then
print (SM $timesent);
but nothing comes out. It doesn't die, it just doesn't do anything.
Is the localtime thing universal, or do some servers use another term? Or,
more likely, am I doing something wrong?
TIA
-----== Posted via Deja News, The Leader in Internet Discussion ==-----
http://www.dejanews.com/ Now offering spam-free web-based newsreading
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 05 May 1998 23:51:37 -0400
From: Ronald J Kimball <rjk@coos.dartmouth.edu>
Subject: Re: malformed header?
Message-Id: <354FDE4F.99ED6CA4@coos.dartmouth.edu>
Martien Verbruggen wrote:
>
> > I get these errors
> > # syntax error, near "my"
> > File 'StarMax HD:Desktop Folder:Mac_Perl:extra folder:ice_cream_stand';
>
> Which version of perl are you using? Sounds like you might be using a
> perl 4.
Actually, the error would look more like this if it were Perl4:
syntax error in file - at line 2, next 2 tokens "my $foo"
--
_ / ' _ / - aka - rjk@coos.dartmouth.edu
( /)//)//)(//)/( Ronald J. Kimball chipmunk@m-net.arbornet.org
/ http://www.ziplink.net/~rjk/
"It's funny 'cause it's true ... and vice versa."
------------------------------
Date: 5 May 1998 22:12:20 -0400
From: mjd@op.net (Mark-Jason Dominus)
Subject: Re: need help with hashtable size/memory
Message-Id: <6iogu4$neu$1@monet.op.net>
Keywords: defuse materiel simultaneous sown
In article <354F54C2.34F4E276@globin.bio.warwick.ac.uk>,
Caroline Hadley <hadley@globin.bio.warwick.ac.uk> wrote:
>Mark-Jason Dominus wrote:
>> [Tie::SubstrHash] will probably make the problem worse, not better.
>
>why????
My mistake. I had it confused with something else.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 5 May 1998 21:20:59 -0500
From: "Bob Tate" <btate@primary.net>
Subject: Re: passing .htaccess login info
Message-Id: <354fc939.0@news.primary.net>
Eric,
Here is a list of most of the Environment variables that are passed to the
system. I run a secured site that requires authentication and use these
variables to determine who the visitor is and what level of access they are
allowed.
# At this point we can get the local environment information
# from the visiting user.
$local = $ENV {'SERVER_NAME'} ;
$remote = $ENV {'REMOTE_HOST'} ;
$remote_ip = $ENV {'REMOTE_ADDR'} ;
$server_sw = $ENV {'SERVER_SOFTWARE'} ;
$server_pr = $ENV {'SERVER_PROTOCOL'} ;
$user_sw = $ENV {'HTTP_USER_AGENT'} ;
$port = $ENV {'SERVER_PORT'} ;
$gateway = $ENV {'GATEWAY_INTERFACE'};
$method = $ENV {'REQUEST_METHOD'} ;
$language = $ENV {'HTTP_ACCEPT_LANGUAGE'};
$id = $ENV {'REMOTE_IDENT'};
$user_id = $ENV {'REMOTE_USER'} ;
$path = $ENV{'PATH_TRANSLATED'} ;
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 6 May 1998 02:41:49 GMT
From: tmornini@netcom.com (Tom Mornini)
Subject: qq method calls
Message-Id: <tmorniniEsIKtp.Kx3@netcom.com>
I'm trying to learn to do things the "right" way and mod_perl is helping
quite a lot with it's love of -w and use strict :-) I just ran into this
issue, which is easily resolved by removing the method references from
the double quotes, but I was wondering if there was a nifty way to do this.
#!/usr/bin/perl -w
use strict;
use CGI;
package IMPQ;
$IMPQ::query=new CGI;
print $IMPQ::query->header;
print <<EOT;
<HTML>
<H1>Here are some variables</H1>
$IMPQ::query->param('NAME')<BR>
$IMPQ::query->param('SIZE')<BR>
</HTML>
EOT
When I do this I get (if run from command line and fed name=value pairs):
Content-Type: text/html
<HTML>
<H1>Here are some variables</H1>
CGI=HASH(0xb3450)->param('NAME')<BR>
CGI=HASH(0xb3450)->param('SIZE')<BR>
</HTML>
It's the scalar->method call that I was hoping for substition on like
a simple scalar. Is there a better method than removing these items from
the double-quoted string and printing them on their own? (which works, but
is extra code and typing!)
-- Tom Mornini
-- InfoMania
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 05 May 1998 12:23:25 +0000
From: Razmik Khachikyan <rxk@cobra.jpl.nasa.gov>
Subject: Share an array
Message-Id: <354F04BC.9F065AFB@cobra.jpl.nasa.gov>
Does anyone know how to share an array?
Thanks in advance!
------------------------------
Date: 6 May 1998 02:34:29 GMT
From: mgjv@comdyn.com.au (Martien Verbruggen)
Subject: Re: Share an array
Message-Id: <6ioi7l$9jt$1@comdyn.comdyn.com.au>
In article <354F04BC.9F065AFB@cobra.jpl.nasa.gov>,
Razmik Khachikyan <rxk@cobra.jpl.nasa.gov> writes:
> Does anyone know how to share an array?
Share an array with what? What are you trying to accomplish? You might
need to be a bit more specific and verbose.
Martien
--
Martien Verbruggen |
Webmaster www.tradingpost.com.au | Begin at the beginning and go on till
Commercial Dynamics Pty. Ltd. | you come to the end; then stop.
NSW, Australia |
------------------------------
Date: 6 May 1998 03:05:09 GMT
From: Tom Christiansen <tchrist@mox.perl.com>
Subject: Re: Share an array
Message-Id: <6iok15$mus$1@csnews.cs.colorado.edu>
[courtesy cc of this posting sent to cited author via email]
In comp.lang.perl.misc,
Razmik Khachikyan <rxk@cobra.jpl.nasa.gov> writes:
:Does anyone know how to share an array?
Split it in two. Give half to a friend. Tell him to
go and to likewise.
--tom
--
Tom Christiansen tchrist@jhereg.perl.com
"If you think Emacs is such a great editor, just look what it did for
Richard Stallman's typing skills!"
------------------------------
Date: 6 May 1998 01:17:48 GMT
From: Tom Christiansen <tchrist@mox.perl.com>
Subject: Re: Using executable pathname to define include path
Message-Id: <6iodns$cqm$1@csnews.cs.colorado.edu>
[courtesy cc of this posting sent to cited author via email]
In comp.lang.perl.misc,
Andy Glew <glew@cs.wisc.edu> writes:
:I was about to blush and apologize, but then I checked
:http://www.perl.com/CPAN-local/doc/FAQs/FAQ/PerlFAQ.html
:which is my usual route into the Perl FAQs. Supposedly
:this is one large HTML file of the FAQs, right, convenient for
:searching.
:
:Searching for FindBin finds nothing...
:Searching for other likely things doesn't help.
:And, yeah, I have read the entire FAQ, but I daresay I don't
:remember it all.
The only correct documents are the ones with your system.
The ones on the web are hopelessly out of date. Here's why.
--tom
To: The Perl Porters Mailing List <perl5-porters@perl.org>
Subject: Stop the Insanity!
Reply-to: tchrist@perl.com
Date: Fri, 07 Nov 1997 09:18:59 -0700
>From: Tom Christiansen <tchrist@jhereg>
Being continually ragged on for not updating the CPAN html doc versions of
our documentation, I am faced once again with the onerous and odious task
of producing an HTML tree (and also postscript documents from pod2man)
of the more than two hundred random pods scattered about the nethermost
reaches of the current 5.004 perl src tree.
I'm not going to start down this path until we have devised a long-term
solution. I'm looking for concrete, useful suggestions and serious help.
Furthermore, I hereby propose in all seriousness that no further release
of Perl be made until such time as this insane situation should be
soundly and suitably fixed.
What insane situation? Read on...
Here's what must be done:
0) No file containing pod information may be omitted from the
final tree. *All* pods in the source directory must be reachable
from the top level with useful index pages, and they must link
to each other correctly. This is the overriding criterion.
1) The standard pods in pod/*.pod must be converted, and some
of these broken up into pieces at either the =item granularity
or the =head granularity. For example, perlfunc must be
broken up. But only the bottom part of it, not the top.
And perlfunc/index.html is a problem. (See podset#1 below)
But the broken up pages should also have non broken up versions.
2) The ext and lib pods need to be covered, and they all need proper
per-directory useful index pages as well. This would likely be
just one directory. (See podset#2).
3) The utilities pods must be converted. These are podset#3.
4) The alien ports pods must be converted. These are podset#4.
5) The joe-random scattered-all-over-creation pods must be converted.
These are podset#5.
6) Some contingency for site_perl must be provided for.
7) Whatever I didn't think of yet.
This is an increasingly difficult task. We must develop some rhyme,
reason, and sanity here. pod2html works just on a single page basis,
and even installhtml, originally designed for this purpose, cannot begin
to deal with the madness we have wrought.
HELP!
--tom
PODSET #1:
pod/perl.pod pod/perlapio.pod pod/perlbook.pod pod/perlbot.pod
pod/perlcall.pod pod/perldata.pod pod/perldebug.pod pod/perldelta.pod
pod/perldiag.pod pod/perldsc.pod pod/perlembed.pod pod/perlfaq.pod
pod/perlfaq1.pod pod/perlfaq2.pod pod/perlfaq3.pod pod/perlfaq4.pod
pod/perlfaq5.pod pod/perlfaq6.pod pod/perlfaq7.pod pod/perlfaq8.pod
pod/perlfaq9.pod pod/perlform.pod pod/perlfunc.pod pod/perlguts.pod
pod/perlipc.pod pod/perllocale.pod pod/perllol.pod pod/perlmod.pod
pod/perlmodlib.pod pod/perlobj.pod pod/perlop.pod pod/perlpod.pod
pod/perlre.pod pod/perlref.pod pod/perlrun.pod pod/perlsec.pod
pod/perlstyle.pod pod/perlsub.pod pod/perlsyn.pod pod/perltie.pod
pod/perltoc.pod pod/perltoot.pod pod/perltrap.pod pod/perlvar.pod
pod/perlxs.pod pod/perlxstut.pod pod/pod2html pod/pod2html.PL
pod/pod2man pod/pod2man.PL pod/splitpod
PODSET #2:
ext/DB_File/DB_File.pm ext/DynaLoader/DynaLoader.pm ext/Fcntl/Fcntl.pm
ext/GDBM_File/GDBM_File.pm ext/IO/IO.pm ext/IO/lib/IO/File.pm
ext/IO/lib/IO/Handle.pm ext/IO/lib/IO/Pipe.pm ext/IO/lib/IO/Seekable.pm
ext/IO/lib/IO/Select.pm ext/IO/lib/IO/Socket.pm ext/NDBM_File/NDBM_File.pm
ext/ODBM_File/ODBM_File.pm ext/Opcode/Opcode.pm ext/Opcode/Safe.pm
ext/Opcode/ops.pm ext/POSIX/POSIX.pod ext/SDBM_File/SDBM_File.pm
ext/Socket/Socket.pm lib/AnyDBM_File.pm lib/AutoLoader.pm lib/AutoSplit.pm
lib/Benchmark.pm lib/Bundle/CPAN.pm lib/CGI/Apache.pm lib/CGI/Carp.pm
lib/CGI/Fast.pm lib/CGI/Push.pm lib/CGI/Switch.pm lib/CGI.pm
lib/CPAN/FirstTime.pm lib/CPAN/Nox.pm lib/CPAN.pm lib/Carp.pm
lib/Class/Struct.pm lib/Config.pm lib/Cwd.pm lib/DB_File.pm
lib/Devel/SelfStubber.pm lib/DirHandle.pm lib/DynaLoader.pm
lib/English.pm lib/Env.pm lib/Exporter.pm lib/ExtUtils/Command.pm
lib/ExtUtils/Embed.pm lib/ExtUtils/Install.pm lib/ExtUtils/Liblist.pm
lib/ExtUtils/MM_OS2.pm lib/ExtUtils/MM_Unix.pm lib/ExtUtils/MM_VMS.pm
lib/ExtUtils/MM_Win32.pm lib/ExtUtils/MakeMaker.pm
lib/ExtUtils/Manifest.pm lib/ExtUtils/Mkbootstrap.pm
lib/ExtUtils/Mksymlists.pm lib/ExtUtils/testlib.pm lib/ExtUtils/xsubpp
lib/Fcntl.pm lib/File/Basename.pm lib/File/CheckTree.pm
lib/File/Compare.pm lib/File/Copy.pm lib/File/DosGlob.pm
lib/File/Find.pm lib/File/Path.pm lib/File/stat.pm lib/FileCache.pm
lib/FileHandle.pm lib/FindBin.pm lib/GDBM_File.pm lib/Getopt/Long.pm
lib/Getopt/Std.pm lib/I18N/Collate.pm lib/IO/File.pm lib/IO/Handle.pm
lib/IO/Pipe.pm lib/IO/Seekable.pm lib/IO/Select.pm lib/IO/Socket.pm
lib/IO.pm lib/IPC/Open2.pm lib/IPC/Open3.pm lib/Math/BigFloat.pm
lib/Math/BigInt.pm lib/Math/Complex.pm lib/Math/Trig.pm lib/NDBM_File.pm
lib/Net/Ping.pm lib/Net/hostent.pm lib/Net/netent.pm lib/Net/protoent.pm
lib/Net/servent.pm lib/Opcode.pm lib/POSIX.pod lib/Pod/Html.pm
lib/Pod/Text.pm lib/SDBM_File.pm lib/Safe.pm lib/Search/Dict.pm
lib/SelectSaver.pm lib/SelfLoader.pm lib/Shell.pm lib/Socket.pm
lib/Symbol.pm lib/Sys/Hostname.pm lib/Sys/Syslog.pm lib/Term/Cap.pm
lib/Term/Complete.pm lib/Term/ReadLine.pm lib/Test/Harness.pm
lib/Text/Abbrev.pm lib/Text/ParseWords.pm lib/Text/Soundex.pm
lib/Text/Tabs.pm lib/Text/Wrap.pm lib/Tie/Hash.pm lib/Tie/RefHash.pm
lib/Tie/Scalar.pm lib/Tie/SubstrHash.pm lib/Time/Local.pm
lib/Time/gmtime.pm lib/Time/localtime.pm lib/Time/tm.pm lib/UNIVERSAL.pm
lib/User/grent.pm lib/User/pwent.pm lib/autouse.pm lib/base.pm lib/blib.pm
lib/constant.pm lib/diagnostics.pm lib/integer.pm lib/less.pm lib/lib.pm
lib/locale.pm lib/ops.pm lib/overload.pm lib/sigtrap.pm lib/strict.pm
lib/subs.pm lib/vars.pm
PODSET #3:
utils/c2ph.PL utils/h2ph.PL utils/h2xs.PL utils/perlbug.PL
utils/perldoc.PL utils/pl2pm.PL
PODSET #4:
os2/OS2/ExtAttr/ExtAttr.pm os2/OS2/PrfDB/PrfDB.pm
os2/OS2/Process/Process.pm os2/OS2/REXX/REXX.pm plan9/perlplan9.pod
vms/ext/DCLsym/DCLsym.pm vms/ext/Filespec.pm vms/ext/Stdio/Stdio.pm
vms/ext/XSSymSet.pm vms/ext/vmsish.pm vms/perlvms.pod win32/bin/pl2bat.pl
win32/bin/runperl.pl x2p/a2p.pod x2p/s2p.PL
PODSET #5:
INSTALL Porting/pumpkin.pod README.amiga README.os2 README.win32 configpm
emacs/cperl-mode.el installhtml makeaperl makeaperl.SH minimod.pl
t/op/runlevel.t
--
Tom Christiansen tchrist@jhereg.perl.com
: I've heard that there is a shell (bourne or csh) to perl filter, does
: anyone know of this or where I can get it?
Yeah, you filter it through Tom Christiansen. :-) --Larry Wall
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 05 May 1998 20:33:26 -0500
From: Andy Glew <glew@cs.wisc.edu>
To: Tom Christiansen <tchrist@mox.perl.com>
Subject: Re: Using executable pathname to define include path
Message-Id: <354FBDE6.9491FD12@cs.wisc.edu>
Ah, well, at least now I understand why the FAQ on the webthat I have been reading often seems out-of-date,
with nonexistent links, etc. (This is a fun inversion of the usual
situation, where the web data is usually more up to date than the
documents on my local system.)
My sympathies about managing the documents. Sounds ever more
familiar... :-(
Mind if I make one small suggestion? Until the doc management process
is fixed, why not add, by hand, some sort of warning to the HTML docs
at www.perl.com warning?:
The only correct documents are the ones with your system.
The ones on the web are hopelessly out of date. Here's why.
As for me, I'll probably continue to use the web versions where they
are probably up-to-date, since they are a lot more convenient for me to read
than the versions installed by our sysadmins. But at least I now know to
hunt through the obsolete document formats when it is really necessary.
(I still haven't been able to find FindBin in the locally installed FAQ,
however. But that's mainly because of a reluctance to type find.)
> :I was about to blush and apologize, but then I checked
> :http://www.perl.com/CPAN-local/doc/FAQs/FAQ/PerlFAQ.html
>
> The only correct documents are the ones with your system.
> The ones on the web are hopelessly out of date. Here's why.
>
> To: The Perl Porters Mailing List <perl5-porters@perl.org>
> Being continually ragged on for not updating the CPAN html doc versions of
> our documentation, I am faced once again with the onerous and odious task
> of producing an HTML tree (and also postscript documents from pod2man)
> of the more than two hundred random pods scattered about the nethermost
> reaches of the current 5.004 perl src tree.
>
> I'm not going to start down this path until we have devised a long-term
> solution. I'm looking for concrete, useful suggestions and serious help.
------------------------------
Date: 8 Mar 97 21:33:47 GMT (Last modified)
From: Perl-Request@ruby.oce.orst.edu (Perl-Users-Digest Admin)
Subject: Digest Administrivia (Last modified: 8 Mar 97)
Message-Id: <null>
Administrivia:
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------------------------------
End of Perl-Users Digest V8 Issue 2511
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