[8685] in Perl-Users-Digest
Perl-Users Digest, Issue: 2302 Volume: 8
daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (Perl-Users Digest)
Sun Apr 12 05:07:32 1998
Date: Sun, 12 Apr 98 02:00:32 -0700
From: Perl-Users Digest <Perl-Users-Request@ruby.OCE.ORST.EDU>
To: Perl-Users@ruby.OCE.ORST.EDU (Perl-Users Digest)
Perl-Users Digest Sun, 12 Apr 1998 Volume: 8 Number: 2302
Today's topics:
Re: [Q] Making Money with PERL/CGI?? (Sandra Anderson)
Re: Bill Gates should be invited to O'Reilly's "Free So <rra@stanford.edu>
Re: Bill Gates should be invited to O'Reilly's "Free So <rra@stanford.edu>
Re: Bill Gates should be invited to O'Reilly's "Free So (Sandra Anderson)
Re: Bill Gates should be invited to O'Reilly's "Free So <xtifr@dsp.net>
Re: Clever algorithms for generating robots.txt from li nospam@domain.com
Re: File download problem in IE4.0 <ebohlman@netcom.com>
Re: File download problem in IE4.0 <kenner@xnet.com>
How do I cut off the first word of a string? <bth@acsu.buffalo.edu>
Re: How do I cut off the first word of a string? (Craig Berry)
Re: Info Regarding Perl 5.005 <merlyn@stonehenge.com>
Re: Info Regarding Perl 5.005 (Abigail)
Re: Info Regarding Perl 5.005 (Craig Berry)
Re: Launched Win32 apps grabbing input focus <aaronmar@erols.com>
log base 10 in perl <jong@salt2.med.harvard.edu>
Re: log base 10 in perl (Craig Berry)
Re: log base 10 in perl (Abigail)
Re: Numeric validation (Abigail)
Re: Q: Getting the browsers local time? <smubit1@gl.umbc.edu>
Re: Question about Reference to Hash <jdf@pobox.com>
Re: RMS should be invited to O'Reilly's "Free Software <xtifr@dsp.net>
Re: Script URL (Abigail)
Re: To keep Text from Wrapping <jhoglund@mirage.skypoint.net>
Digest Administrivia (Last modified: 8 Mar 97) (Perl-Users-Digest Admin)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Sun, 12 Apr 1998 02:59:17 GMT
From: perl.babe@mailexcite.com (Sandra Anderson)
Subject: Re: [Q] Making Money with PERL/CGI??
Message-Id: <35312d4d.7373143@newsreader.cais.net>
On Mon, 23 Mar 1998 17:42:38 GMT, wef@N0SPAM_wef.net (Wef) wrote:
>((( here come the flames )))
>
>Are there any methods to finding clients who need custom PERL scripts
>for the WWW??? That is, without the use of SPAM???
>
I don't know where you live, but papers like the Washington Post have
lower-cost advertising vehicles (normally in technology sections) for
people who wish to write programs. Checking the want ads is also an
approach, as is hitting any of the dozens of help wanted sites on the
Web. Go to Yahoo (or equivalent) and begin searching. Spam is a
lousy idea if for no other reason than most of the people with work to
do would reject your email on principle because it would clearly show
that you "don't get it."
Sandra
------------------------------
Date: 11 Apr 1998 19:08:57 -0700
From: Russ Allbery <rra@stanford.edu>
Subject: Re: Bill Gates should be invited to O'Reilly's "Free Software Summit" (was Re: RMS should be invited to O'Reilly's "Free Software Summit")
Message-Id: <m3vhsfpz9i.fsf@windlord.Stanford.EDU>
In comp.lang.perl.misc, Ben Bullock <ben@hayamasa.demon.co.uk> writes:
> OK, it's not a computer program. But it is a document in
> machine-readable form. The distributed Perl documents were offered as
> examples of free documentation, but in the case of the Perl FAQ they are
> not free.
Sure they are. I can use them freely, read them freely, and distribute
them freely to my friends. They aren't free in the same way that Perl
itself is free, but they're also *not software*. You're trying to apply
licenses to documentation that were never really intended to work for
documentation.
> So the Perl FAQ doesn't fit into the category of being `free' that I am
> using. You might like to notice that the reason I pointed that it's not
> free out was because someone said that it was.
And it is. It doesn't meet the Debian free software guidelines, but
neither is it software.
(Incidentally, are you aware of the reason for that license? It's because
people have tried to steal Tom Christiansen's documentation work before,
publish it in books without his permission, and not even credit him for
it. For software, a license like the GPL can force people who wish to do
things like this to at least include the source and the original copyright
notice. The GPL doesn't apply to documentation because the distinction
between supplying "source" and supplying binaries doesn't apply to
documentation. One could claim that the text was the source.)
--
#!/usr/bin/perl -- Russ Allbery, Just Another Perl Hacker
$^=q;@!>~|{>krw>yn{u<$$<[~||<Juukn{=,<S~|}<Jwx}qn{<Yn{u<Qjltn{ > 0gFzD gD,
00Fz, 0,,( 0hF 0g)F/=, 0> "L$/GEIFewe{,$/ 0C$~> "@=,m,|,(e 0.), 01,pnn,y{
rw} >;,$0=q,$,,($_=$^)=~y,$/ C-~><@=\n\r,-~$:-u/ #y,d,s,(\$.),$1,gee,print
------------------------------
Date: 11 Apr 1998 19:11:38 -0700
From: Russ Allbery <rra@stanford.edu>
Subject: Re: Bill Gates should be invited to O'Reilly's "Free Software Summit" (was Re: RMS should be invited to O'Reilly's "Free Software Summit")
Message-Id: <m3sonjpz51.fsf@windlord.Stanford.EDU>
In comp.lang.perl.misc, Ben Bullock <ben@hayamasa.demon.co.uk> writes:
> Russ Allbery wrote:
>> You just switched from source code to documentation.
> No, I started this whole discussion about documentation.
Quoting the message to which I was replying originally:
>>> What I was refering to was taking something such as source code which
>>> is freely redistributable and turning it into something proprietory,
>>> which is quite a large part of O'Reilly's business.
So you were talking about source code. Now you're talking about
documentation. This qualifies as switching from source code to
documentation.
> I brought the software argument in as a sideline (O'Reilly is a
> proprietory software company, for example they sell a WWW server.)
So is that the example you were thinking of when you said that O'Reilly
takes freely distributed source code and turns it into something
proprietary? I'm still looking for an example of what you're talking
about.
>> The FSF prints manuals from their info pages and sells them, and I've
>> never heard anyone complaining they're taking free documentation and
>> making it proprietary.
> That's because they aren't. You could freely take a manual that the FSF
> produced and photocopy it and then sell the photocopies for a fee.
I specifically addressed that in my message, but you snipped it.
> I pointed this out in the first post on this thread. It's a little
> boring to re-post it here.
Pot, kettle....
--
#!/usr/bin/perl -- Russ Allbery, Just Another Perl Hacker
$^=q;@!>~|{>krw>yn{u<$$<[~||<Juukn{=,<S~|}<Jwx}qn{<Yn{u<Qjltn{ > 0gFzD gD,
00Fz, 0,,( 0hF 0g)F/=, 0> "L$/GEIFewe{,$/ 0C$~> "@=,m,|,(e 0.), 01,pnn,y{
rw} >;,$0=q,$,,($_=$^)=~y,$/ C-~><@=\n\r,-~$:-u/ #y,d,s,(\$.),$1,gee,print
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 12 Apr 1998 02:52:15 GMT
From: perl.babe@mailexcite.com (Sandra Anderson)
Subject: Re: Bill Gates should be invited to O'Reilly's "Free Software Summit" (was Re: RMS should be invited to O'Reilly's "Free Software Summit")
Message-Id: <35302a80.6655982@newsreader.cais.net>
On Sat, 11 Apr 1998 10:14:17 +0100, Ben Bullock
<ben@hayamasa.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>Russ Allbery wrote:
>>
>> In gnu.misc.discuss, ben <ben@hayamasa.demon.co.uk> writes:
No to put too fine a point on it, information does not long to be
free. It longs to live and grow and be distributed widely, which
means someone has go to come up with the cash to pay the printers,
publishers, authors, the drivers of the trucks full of books, the
clerks at the store, the people working for the computer companies,
etc. The "free" X documentation was built into the cost of the
systems, and the O'Reilly version had the advantage over the original
in that it was actually readable. I am not an O'Reilly employee, and
indeed don't know that I've ever met anyone who works there (apart
from email), but I know that in my Unix-geek days their material
helped me make a decent living. I never got the sense that they were
playing rip-off, even when they were the only serious Unix publisher
in town. I don't feel that the Red Hat people are ripping us off
either when they charge about $40 for a clean distribution of Linux.
The firms add lots of value, in my experience. I know being calm
isn't as much fun as flaming and calling one another liars, but you
may perhaps wish to save your energy and concentrate it on dealing
with Microsoft - makers of the only popular consumer software
(Windows) that costs as much now as it did five years ago.
Sandra
------------------------------
Date: 12 Apr 1998 01:47:36 -0700
From: Chris Waters <xtifr@dsp.net>
Subject: Re: Bill Gates should be invited to O'Reilly's "Free Software Summit" (was Re: RMS should be invited to O'Reilly's "Free Software Summit")
Message-Id: <87u37zbf4n.fsf@dsp.net>
ben@hayamasa.demon.co.uk writes:
> My point is that O'Reilly is a proprietory software and
> publishing company which really has no more right to hold a free
> software conference than Microsoft.
And no less. Both companies are perfectly within their rights to hold
a free software conference if they want to. I think the difference is
that O'Reilly is respected in the free software community, and
supports the free software community, so the free software community
is more likely to show up at an O'Reilly conference on free software
than they are at one hosted by Microsoft (not that MS *would*).
--
Chris Waters xtifr@dsp.net | I have a truly elegant proof of the
or cwaters@systems.DHL.COM | above, but it is too long to fit into
http://www.dsp.net/xtifr | this .signature file.
------------------------------
Date: 12 Apr 1998 03:48:12 GMT
From: nospam@domain.com
Subject: Re: Clever algorithms for generating robots.txt from list of allowed files?
Message-Id: <6gpdhs$6a$1@picasso.op.net>
Ernest Mueller (ernestm@towery.com) wrote:
:I have list of files I specifically want to allow robots
:to index on my Web site. Unfortunately the current robot exclusion principle
:only supports Disallow: lines. I only want to allow access to about 100 of my
:3000 files.
:So, anyone got any great ideas on how to do this in minimal time and with no
:extraneous entries in robots.txt?
I'll bet it's possible, but not in minimal time. ;)
It's the robot exclusion protocol, it's designed to help you
*exclude* files. You're trying to do the opposite, namely,
specify which files you want to *include*.
You're pounding a square peg into a round hole.
This is not a Perl problem.
Your best bet is to make your peg round. Why not just
separate the indexed content into a single special directory,
and exclude all the other top-level directories?
But this is off-topic. I'll shut up now. ;)
--
##--------------------------------
## John Nolan
## jpn acm org
##--------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 12 Apr 1998 01:58:43 GMT
From: Eric Bohlman <ebohlman@netcom.com>
Subject: Re: File download problem in IE4.0
Message-Id: <ebohlmanErA2tv.Bs0@netcom.com>
bidyut@yahoo.com wrote:
: Hi There,
: I have a CGi script which sends the file to the client browser. Now the code
: which i have written for this.
: print "Content-type: application/$ext";
: #where $ext is the extenxion of the file i.e. doc or pdf or xls.
You're generating invalid media types. For example, the proper media
type for an MSWORD document is application/msword, not application/doc.
Do a search on the Web for the correct media types, and revise your
script to send them out (ObPerl, since your problem isn't a Perl problem:
you'll probably want to set up a hash for translating file extensions
into media types).
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 11 Apr 1998 21:44:28 -0500
From: "Kenner Estes" <kenner@xnet.com>
Subject: Re: File download problem in IE4.0
Message-Id: <6gp9k7$dp$1@flood.xnet.com>
Wow, Abigail - why don't you just go out of your way to be a jerk?
I'm new to Perl and I'm trying to learn without asking questions, and it's
because of people like you that I'm afraid to. This guy had a question
about how his Perl script was having trouble interacting with IE, and he
thought that others in the Perl community may have had the same problem.
What's wrong with that? You think his question is a waste of your time?
How much of a waste of your time is it to post a snippy response to his
honest question?
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 12 Apr 1998 01:58:03 -0400
From: Bryan T Hoch <bth@acsu.buffalo.edu>
Subject: How do I cut off the first word of a string?
Message-Id: <Pine.GSO.3.96.980412015316.26566A-100000@callisto.acsu.buffalo.edu>
Hi. I'm fairly new at Perl and was hoping someone would be able to
helpe me with the elementary (hopefuly) problem.
I want to have the user pass in a string (assuming through <STDIN>
to a varaiable $whatever). The problem now is analyzing the first word of
the string, and then passing the remainder of the string on to another sub
routine. Does anyone know how to do that?
Thanks very much in advance...
Bryan H
PS- please email me directly so I don't miss the answer...
------------------------------
Date: 12 Apr 1998 07:17:55 GMT
From: cberry@cinenet.net (Craig Berry)
Subject: Re: How do I cut off the first word of a string?
Message-Id: <6gppr3$2dr$3@marina.cinenet.net>
Bryan T Hoch (bth@acsu.buffalo.edu) wrote:
: Hi. I'm fairly new at Perl and was hoping someone would be able to
: helpe me with the elementary (hopefuly) problem.
: I want to have the user pass in a string (assuming through <STDIN>
: to a varaiable $whatever). The problem now is analyzing the first word of
: the string, and then passing the remainder of the string on to another sub
: routine. Does anyone know how to do that?
my ($first, $rest) = $whatever =~ /(\w+)(.*)/;
analyze($first);
anothersub($rest);
: PS- please email me directly so I don't miss the answer...
Nah, read the group religiously, you'll learn more that way.
---------------------------------------------------------------------
| Craig Berry - cberry@cinenet.net
--*-- Home Page: http://www.cinenet.net/users/cberry/home.html
| Member of The HTML Writers Guild: http://www.hwg.org/
"Every man and every woman is a star."
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 12 Apr 1998 03:20:32 GMT
From: Randal Schwartz <merlyn@stonehenge.com>
To: fl_aggie@thepentagon.com (I R A Aggie)
Subject: Re: Info Regarding Perl 5.005
Message-Id: <8ciuofu3oj.fsf@gadget.cscaper.com>
>>>>> "I" == I R A Aggie <fl_aggie@thepentagon.com> writes:
I> In article <slrn6its9l.ibg.gabor@vnode.vmunix.com>, gabor@vmunix.com
I> (Gabor) wrote:
I> + Hmm, that's not encouraging. I take it that upgrading to 5.005 isn't
I> + something that most of us should do?
I> Is there a way of disabling threading and getting back that 30% performance
I> hit?
By default, you build a non-threaded version of 5.005 that's
comparable in speed to 5.004, but you can't use any threading on
demand then.
So, you end up with two binaries (and two sets of site_perl as well,
since the so's aren't compatible either).
At least, this is my understanding. If there's any other P5P'ers here
with better information, chime in.
And you should *definitly* upgrade to 5.005 when it comes out. Turns
out there's a CERT-ifiable security bug in all versions of 5.004, so
5.005 is now the only Perl that is known-security-bug-free.
print "Just another Perl hacker," # but not what the media calls "hacker!" :-)
## legal fund: $20,990.69 collected, $186,159.85 spent; just 142 more days
## before I go to *prison* for 90 days; email fund@stonehenge.com for details
--
Name: Randal L. Schwartz / Stonehenge Consulting Services (503)777-0095
Keywords: Perl training, UNIX[tm] consulting, video production, skiing, flying
Email: <merlyn@stonehenge.com> Snail: (Call) PGP-Key: (finger merlyn@teleport.com)
Web: <A HREF="http://www.stonehenge.com/merlyn/">My Home Page!</A>
Quote: "I'm telling you, if I could have five lines in my .sig, I would!" -- me
------------------------------
Date: 12 Apr 1998 06:51:41 GMT
From: abigail@fnx.com (Abigail)
Subject: Re: Info Regarding Perl 5.005
Message-Id: <6gpo9t$1jo$1@client2.news.psi.net>
Randal Schwartz (merlyn@stonehenge.com) wrote on MDCLXXXV September
MCMXCIII in <URL: news:8ciuofu3oj.fsf@gadget.cscaper.com>:
++
++ By default, you build a non-threaded version of 5.005 that's
++ comparable in speed to 5.004, but you can't use any threading on
++ demand then.
++
++ So, you end up with two binaries (and two sets of site_perl as well,
++ since the so's aren't compatible either).
site_perl? I guess you mean the *architecture* dependent stuff, not all
the non-root stuff.
It is a pity you end up with 2 binaries, and 2 sets of dynamic libraries,
but except for threads, they should give the same functionality. Of course
if you don't care about threads, you don't need to build 2 sets; since
you seem to be on the side that says "we don't need to stinking threads",
why would you need the threaded perl version? Similar, for people who
don't care about the speed (cause their applications are bound by I/O
anyway, or because they have a big machine, or because they don't notice
the difference between 0.1 and 0.07 seconds anyway) don't need a second
set either. It's only the people that want to use threads, yet don't want
to lose speed on non-threaded applications that need two sets of files.
Since noone has been able to make a threaded perl that doesn't come
with a speed penalty, I think the option of making one or two versions
of perl is a _feature_.
Abigail
--
perl -MLWP::UserAgent -MHTML::TreeBuilder -MHTML::FormatText -wle'print +(HTML::FormatText -> new -> format (HTML::TreeBuilder -> new -> parse (LWP::UserAgent -> new -> request (HTTP::Request -> new ("GET", "http://work.ucsd.edu:5141/cgi-bin/http_webster?isindex=perl")) -> content)) =~ /(.*\))[-\s]+Additional/s) [0]'
------------------------------
Date: 12 Apr 1998 07:12:33 GMT
From: cberry@cinenet.net (Craig Berry)
Subject: Re: Info Regarding Perl 5.005
Message-Id: <6gpph1$2dr$2@marina.cinenet.net>
Abigail (abigail@fnx.com) wrote:
: Since noone has been able to make a threaded perl that doesn't come
: with a speed penalty, I think the option of making one or two versions
: of perl is a _feature_.
True. Still, it would be nicer (though perhaps not easily achievable) to
wrap both flavors in one 'visible' executable, which would then use e.g.
a command-line switch to choose which version of the 'real' perl
executable (or shared lib, or whatever) to load and run.
---------------------------------------------------------------------
| Craig Berry - cberry@cinenet.net
--*-- Home Page: http://www.cinenet.net/users/cberry/home.html
| Member of The HTML Writers Guild: http://www.hwg.org/
"Every man and every woman is a star."
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 12 Apr 1998 01:06:52 -0400
From: Aaron J Margosis <aaronmar@erols.com>
Subject: Re: Launched Win32 apps grabbing input focus
Message-Id: <35304BEC.17018125@erols.com>
This may be out of left field, but it was the first idea that popped into
my head: Since you're on NT, you could launch the apps on a different
desktop. If you don't switch focus to that desktop, it shouldn't disrupt
workflow on the default desktop. You'd need to use the CreateProcess API
to accomplish this, setting the appropriate flag in the STARTUPINFO
structure.
HTH
Build Administrator wrote:
>
> Running a script that launches Win32 apps. Each time an app is
> launched it grabs input focus (NT) and disrupts workflow elsewhere
> on the system.
>
> Anyone know how to prevent this?
-- Aaron [MVP]
---------------------
Aaron J Margosis
aaronmar@erols.com
ScrnSaveSwitch/Plus - Screen Saver Control Utility:
http://www.ssswitch.com
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 11 Apr 1998 23:53:19 -0400
From: jong <jong@salt2.med.harvard.edu>
Subject: log base 10 in perl
Message-Id: <35303AAF.B5ECD54@salt2.med.harvard.edu>
Hi
The default log base in perl is e,
I forgot to get log based 10.
Can you tell me?
Thanks,
Cheers,
Jong
email as well please.
--
Jong : A biology student
Tel: 617-432-3675 (lab, I work very late, usually)
Tel: 617-432-0503 (lab, computer room)
Tel: 617-713-0990
Multiplications of zero are always zero.
------------------------------
Date: 12 Apr 1998 07:07:20 GMT
From: cberry@cinenet.net (Craig Berry)
Subject: Re: log base 10 in perl
Message-Id: <6gpp79$2dr$1@marina.cinenet.net>
jong (jong@salt2.med.harvard.edu) wrote:
: The default log base in perl is e,
: I forgot to get log based 10.
log10(x) = ln(x) / ln(10)
The same pattern holds for any pair of bases.
---------------------------------------------------------------------
| Craig Berry - cberry@cinenet.net
--*-- Home Page: http://www.cinenet.net/users/cberry/home.html
| Member of The HTML Writers Guild: http://www.hwg.org/
"Every man and every woman is a star."
------------------------------
Date: 12 Apr 1998 07:16:13 GMT
From: abigail@fnx.com (Abigail)
Subject: Re: log base 10 in perl
Message-Id: <6gppnt$1oi$1@client2.news.psi.net>
jong (jong@salt2.med.harvard.edu) wrote on MDCLXXXV September MCMXCIII in
<URL: news:35303AAF.B5ECD54@salt2.med.harvard.edu>:
++ Hi
++
++ The default log base in perl is e,
++ I forgot to get log based 10.
++
++ Can you tell me?
Use the rules you learned in the second year of highschool:
log_a (b) * log_b (x) = log_a (x);
(Followups set)
Abigail
--
perl -we 'print split /(?=(.*))/s => "Just another Perl Hacker\n";'
------------------------------
Date: 12 Apr 1998 06:33:31 GMT
From: abigail@fnx.com (Abigail)
Subject: Re: Numeric validation
Message-Id: <6gpn7r$1d9$2@client2.news.psi.net>
ppp-support (ppp-support@canelle.telecom.uqam.ca) wrote on MDCLXXXV
September MCMXCIII in <URL: news:353010A3.3E0CD778@canelle.telecom.uqam.ca>:
++ Craig Berry wrote:
++
++ > Why did the emailed suggestion make sense to you, but not this faq entry?
++
++ Simply because it does what i was looking for.
If you don't understand the faq, how would you know the emailed
suggestion does what you are looking for?
Abigail
--
perl -e '$a = q 94a75737420616e6f74686572205065726c204861636b65720a9;
${qq$\x5F$} = q 97265646f9; s g..gqq e\x63\x68\x72\x20\x30\x78$&eggee;
{eval if $a =~ s e..eqq qprint chr 0x$& and \x71\x20\x71\x71qeexcess}'
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 11 Apr 1998 23:52:17 -0400
From: Stephen Mubita <smubit1@gl.umbc.edu>
Subject: Re: Q: Getting the browsers local time?
Message-Id: <Pine.SGI.3.96.980411235156.1222A-100000@foxtrot.gl.umbc.edu>
On Sat, 11 Apr 1998, Drake Cleary wrote:
=> Is there any way (ie: Env variable) to get the local time of the user
=> of a perl script on the web?
=>
The time ? Try localtime. I'm not sure if it helps.
--
Stephen Mubita "All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for
smubit1@umbc.edu for teaching, training, rebuking, correcting and
training in righteousness, so that the man of God
may be thoroughly equipped for every good work."
2 Timothy 3 : 16 - 17
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
UCS is not responsible for any opinions contained here
------------------------------
Date: 12 Apr 1998 01:45:20 -0500
From: Jonathan Feinberg <jdf@pobox.com>
Subject: Re: Question about Reference to Hash
Message-Id: <emz34jy7.fsf@mailhost.panix.com>
wls@wls.wwco.com (Walt Stoneburner) writes:
> C) What part of the puzzle regarding either references or hashes am I
> just not getting that spending 2 hours in Perl books and FAQs did
> not reveal?
Why books? Why FAQs? Why not <drumroll> the *docs* </drumroll>?
Check out the following perl docs: perldata, perlref, perllol,
perldsc.
Also: the hash referenced by $rhash is spelled %$rhash. The number of
key/value pairs is available as
scalar keys %$rhash
--
Jonathan Feinberg jdf@pobox.com Sunny Brooklyn, NY
------------------------------
Date: 12 Apr 1998 01:08:39 -0700
From: Chris Waters <xtifr@dsp.net>
Subject: Re: RMS should be invited to O'Reilly's "Free Software Summit"
Message-Id: <87wwcvbgxk.fsf@dsp.net>
tzs@halcyon.com (Tim Smith) writes:
> In article <87zphsbncy.fsf@dsp.net>, Chris Waters <xtifr@dsp.net> wrote:
> >That's a really bad analogy. PD and BSD/X licenses are like giving
> >your code away to the world.
> If I *give* you my car, I can no longer use it without your permission.
Yeah? So, software is inherently different than hardware. Your
analogies are getting worse and less relevant.
> If I *share* my car with you, I still get to use it.
If I share my car with you, we either go to the same place or use it
at different times. *It's* *a* *bad* *analogy*!
> If I put code in the public domain or under a BSD or X license (or
> GPL it), I still get to use it, so I think "share" is the correct
> word for all of these licenses.
"Share" works as a description for both licenses, of course. English
is a flexible and imprecise language. But the GPL has requirements
about sharing *derivative* products. The BSD/X licenses don't.
That's why the BSDL is *more like* giving your code away, while the
GPL is *more like* sharing it. I don't know how else to put it, but
these birthday analogies are really bad. So, my description of giving
vs. sharing is not a perfect analogy; it's *still better than the
birthday analogy*!
> [GPL] is sharing [..] with that subset of the world that will agree
> to share their code on similar terms.
Yes, the GPL basically says, "you can use this code if you promise to
share." The BSDL says, "you can use this code." Analogies aside,
that's basically what it boils down to.
> To use another birthday analogy [snip]
Great Ghu!
To take it a step further, commercial software would be like making
someone pay for their own birthday present? I'm sorry, I think it's a
bad analogy. I think *birthday presents* are a bad analogy for
software releases. That is *all* I am saying.
> >People who use BSD/X licenses are welcome to brag that they're more
> >generous -- they are -- but for them to claim that people who only
> >share are not being generous enough, when most people/companies don't
> >*even* share their code, seems a little extreme.
> I'm not saying GPL is not generous enough. I do think many people
> adopt it without thinking enough about what they are actually trying
> to accomplish by sharing their code.
Then explain it to those people. Properly. Don't use dubious and
misleading analogies about birthdays. I'm not here to defend the GPL,
I simply wanted to say that I found that analogy to be really bad.
People who use the GPL (at least those who properly understand the
consequences), aren't trying to give you a birthday present. They're
trying to *share* their work with other people who are willing to
share, which isn't a bit like giving someone a present at all.
> If someone thinks about it, and decides that the restrictions GPL
> imposes fit in with what they want to accomplish, then they should
> use GPL. There are circumstances under which I would release new
> code under GPL.
We're in agreement here, certainly. I have released code into the
public domain. I haven't used the GPL, but I can't say that I
wouldn't. (I have contributed patches to GPL'd code.)
> >Especially since the *only* people who are really hurt by
> >the GPL's requirement to share are people who don't want to share.
> There are not hurt by GPL's requirements--they are simply not helped
> by them.
Ok, they're not hurt, but they are the ones who are most likely to
complain about the terms of the GPL. A better way to put it is:
they're the only one to be restricted by the GPL's restrictions.
I don't think we disagree about any facts here, or any of the
implications of those facts. All I'm doing is complaining that the
birthday analogies are flawed, and potentially confusing.
Followups set to gnu.misc.discuss, for lack of any better ideas.
cheers
--
Chris Waters xtifr@dsp.net | I have a truly elegant proof of the
or cwaters@systems.DHL.COM | above, but it is too long to fit into
http://www.dsp.net/xtifr | this .signature file.
------------------------------
Date: 12 Apr 1998 07:41:53 GMT
From: abigail@fnx.com (Abigail)
Subject: Re: Script URL
Message-Id: <6gpr81$1th$1@client2.news.psi.net>
Ken (watkins@mailexcite.com) wrote on MDCLXXXV September MCMXCIII in
<URL: news:6gp38e$70u$1@ha2.rdc1.bc.wave.home.com>:
++ I am new to perl programming (3 days) so please excuse me if my question is
++ a little simplistic. Is there a way to find out the URL that was used to
++ access a CGI script? Let's say someone enters
++ http://mysite.com/refer.cgi?4325 (fictional url)
++ I then need just the 4325
Yes, that's possible and that's trivial.
But don't ask here. Ask in rec.food.chocolate-ants, that's where they
answers CGI questions, or better yet, reading an introduction leaflet
about CGI programming (CGI programming for 21 dummies). This group is
about scuba diving.
Abigail
--
perl -MTime::JulianDay -lwe'@r=reverse(M=>(0)x99=>CM=>(0)x399=>D=>(0)x99=>CD=>(
0)x299=>C=>(0)x9=>XC=>(0)x39=>L=>(0)x9=>XL=>(0)x29=>X=>IX=>0=>0=>0=>V=>IV=>0=>0
=>I=>$r=-2449231+gm_julian_day+time);do{until($r<$#r){$_.=$r[$#r];$r-=$#r}for(;
!$r[--$#r];){}}while$r;$,="\x20";print+$_=>September=>MCMXCIII=>()'
------------------------------
Date: 12 Apr 1998 02:53:27 GMT
From: Jamie Hoglund <jhoglund@mirage.skypoint.net>
Subject: Re: To keep Text from Wrapping
Message-Id: <6gpab7$e3h$1@shadow.skypoint.net>
David <kupid@ecom.net> wrote:
: I have a database program that prints information to a text file. On each
: line of the text file is supposed to be a new set of information (i.e., from
: different users). The problem is that when the user submits too many words,
: it prints the information to more than one line. What I want to do is keep
: each user's info on one line. For example, user1's info would be on line
: one, user2's info would be on the second, etc.
: Does anyone know if there's a function in PERL that would prevent words from
: wrapping in a text file?
Are you sure it's actually wrapping in the text file? Many file browsers
automatically "wrap" long lines to fit on the next line. I can't believe
perl would insert a \n because the line was to long. (I've never seen it
happen) The way to test is to view the file in a hex browser and if
you're using UNIX look for 0A if using DOS/Windows, look for 0D0A and
on a mac, look for 0D. I'll bet they are in the correct places.
You can use pack(). substr(), split(), (or probably a thousand different
regular expressions) to truncate a line if thats what you mean.
Jamie
------------------------------
Date: 8 Mar 97 21:33:47 GMT (Last modified)
From: Perl-Request@ruby.oce.orst.edu (Perl-Users-Digest Admin)
Subject: Digest Administrivia (Last modified: 8 Mar 97)
Message-Id: <null>
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End of Perl-Users Digest V8 Issue 2302
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