[8615] in Perl-Users-Digest
Perl-Users Digest, Issue: 2232 Volume: 8
daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (Perl-Users Digest)
Thu Apr 2 11:07:35 1998
Date: Thu, 2 Apr 98 08:00:23 -0800
From: Perl-Users Digest <Perl-Users-Request@ruby.OCE.ORST.EDU>
To: Perl-Users@ruby.OCE.ORST.EDU (Perl-Users Digest)
Perl-Users Digest Thu, 2 Apr 1998 Volume: 8 Number: 2232
Today's topics:
Re: A SSI question :-) <alan@consultancy-services.ferret.com>
Re: ANNOUNCE: /bin/sh to Perl translator finally availa (Clinton Pierce)
Re: Announce: PDF-1.05 perl Library <hellmann@w-4.de>
Re: Anon Scalar Expression (was: Evaluate expression in <jdporter@min.net>
Re: Automate Telnet Keystrokes (Andy Wardley)
Re: Data Structure for Input File (Jason Gloudon)
Re: Diddling with search engines via CGI (Peter Caffin)
Re: File::Find vs. File::Recurse (was Re: file trees) <jdporter@min.net>
Re: foreach loop & current element index <jdporter@min.net>
Re: foreach loop & current element index <dboorstein@shopcfn.com>
how to count a list of comma sep. items <areeves1@csc.com>
Re: How to read from keyboard without enter? <jhoglund@mirage.skypoint.net>
Re: HTML::Element::extract_links not grabbing frame sou (Volker Kroll)
Re: integer or string ? (Jason Gloudon)
Re: Is there a "Newsgroup" for Newbies to Perl? (I R A Aggie)
Re: Need help with "shared memory" module IPC::Shareabl <bsugars@canoe.ca>
Re: newbie question:how to embed perl in html <jdporter@min.net>
Position in Toronto & Question <nwilson@globalserve.net>
Re: Record size of DBM Hashes <jhoglund@mirage.skypoint.net>
RFC: Standard GUI package? (Brian Wheeler)
SCO Open Server <hans-olof.hermansson@postnet.se>
Re: Someone put my munged e-mail address on a spam list <jdporter@min.net>
Re: Use of implicit split to @_ is deprecated (Jason Gloudon)
Re: What does this one liner do? <flavell@mail.cern.ch>
Re: || operator in list context <ragoff@sandia.gov>
Digest Administrivia (Last modified: 8 Mar 97) (Perl-Users-Digest Admin)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Thu, 2 Apr 1998 14:33:52 +0100
From: Alan Silver <alan@consultancy-services.ferret.com>
Subject: Re: A SSI question :-)
Message-Id: <i++8sPCAP5I1EwaT@consultancy-services.com>
Ben <ben@wallroyds.demon.co.uk> wrote ...
>Hello Alan ...
>
>Thank you very much for the reply :-)
>
>You described it perfectly.
>
>I thought that - But, there's a major disadvantage, the search engines, of
>course ... won't search CGI scripts :-)
>
>Or, can they?
>
>But, really, there is no way to do that? Is it the ONLY way? (Ie - output
>the page via CGI script)?
Well you could store the page in a file and have the CGI script pull the
file in and then output it if the visitor is allowed to see it. This
does not stop the unwelcome visitor from seeing the page if they know
the URL. The point is that search engines need to be able to find the
page. If they can find it, then so can anyone else. If you want to
restrict people from seeing it then you are going to have to restrict
search engines too.
Alan
NOTE - In order to discourage unsolicited e-mail, the address in the
header may have .ferret added. Please remove this before replying.
--
Sent By : Alan Silver
Fish Page : http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Hills/6749/fishtank.html
It's not an optical illusion, it just looks like one
------------------------------
Date: 2 Apr 1998 14:56:47 GMT
From: cpierce1@cp500.fsic.ford.com (Clinton Pierce)
Subject: Re: ANNOUNCE: /bin/sh to Perl translator finally available!
Message-Id: <6g08vf$js01@eccws1.dearborn.ford.com>
In article <6fs0pe$b44$1@mathserv.mps.ohio-state.edu>,
ilya@math.ohio-state.edu (Ilya Zakharevich) writes:
>[A complimentary Cc of this posting was sent to Randal Schwartz
><merlyn@stonehenge.com>],
>who wrote in article <8ciuouv26b.fsf@gadget.cscaper.com>:
>>
>> Yes! Finally! The long-awaited "Shell to Perl" translator is now available!
>
>> It's still in development (hence the low version number).. if you can
>> think of things to make it better, let me know. Doesn't handle csh
>> yet (read the docs for details).
>>
>> Yours for a better Perl world,
>
>How good is perl5.004_63/Configure.PL now?
>
And more importantly, is it year-2000 compliant?
--
+------------------------------------------------------------------------+
| Clinton A. Pierce | "If you rush a Miracle Man, | http://www. |
| cpierce1@ford.com | you get rotten miracles" | dcicorp.com/ |
| fubar@ameritech.net |--Miracle Max, The Princess Bride| ~clintp |
+------------------------------------------------------------------------+
GCSd-s+:+a-C++UALIS++++P+++L++E---t++X+b+++DI++++G++e+>++h----r+++y+++>y*
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 2 Apr 1998 16:38:29 +0200
From: "Peter Hellmann" <hellmann@w-4.de>
Subject: Re: Announce: PDF-1.05 perl Library
Message-Id: <3523a3a2.0@proxy.w-4.de>
Antonio Rosella schrieb in Nachricht <350E6CCB.41C6@technologist.com>...
>New Release: 1.05
>
>Name DSLI Description Info
>----------- ---- -------------------------------------------- -----
>PDF bdpO Access information in a PDF file ANTRO
>
>The PDF library is a proposed library for access the information
>contained inside a PDF file. PDF stands for Portable Document Format and
>is a standard proposed by Adobe ( See http://www.adobe.com/ for more
>details ) .
hi Antonio,
great work ! thanx. anyway the pdf_pages-script does not work correct. it
says "0 pages" with
argument Acrobat.pdf, but the pdf-file has 11 pages ! what's wrong here ???
peter
--
$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
peter hellmann :: europe.germany.south
http://www.w-4.de/~hellmann - mailto:hellmann@w-4.de
$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
>
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 02 Apr 1998 10:35:11 -0500
From: John Porter <jdporter@min.net>
Subject: Re: Anon Scalar Expression (was: Evaluate expression inside print "")
Message-Id: <3523B02F.7D@min.net>
M. S. Sriram wrote:
>
>[...]
> DB<2> $b = \($a + 1);
>[...]
> Am I missing something?
Only the rest of this thread. :-)
John Porter
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 2 Apr 1998 12:26:06 GMT
From: abw@cre.canon.co.uk (Andy Wardley)
Subject: Re: Automate Telnet Keystrokes
Message-Id: <EqsD7I.4rr@cre.canon.co.uk>
Steve Wells <wellss@iren.net> wrote:
>The non-perl answer is to use EXPECT.
The perl answer is to use IO::Expect.
A
--
Andy Wardley <abw@kfs.org> http://www.kfs.org/~abw
Signature lost in transit. We apologise for any inconvenience caused.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 02 Apr 1998 14:42:06 GMT
From: jgloudon@manitoba.bbn.com (Jason Gloudon)
Subject: Re: Data Structure for Input File
Message-Id: <slrn6i78ov.201.jgloudon@manitoba.bbn.com>
CH3704 <ch3704@aol.com> wrote:
>
>I am having a hard time trying to accomplish the following task. I am writing
>a Perl script that reads an input records from an UNIX file of approximately
>400 bytes. The input records do have a common layout, but the records do not
>contain a separator between each individual field. I need to figure out a way
>to define a layout of the record, so that I can modify information on the input
>record before the information is used to update columns in an Oracle instance.
>The individual fields range in size from 1 byte to 40 bytes. The input file
>will be extremely large at times. The file may contain up to 500,000 records.
Please Read the FAQ.
www.perl.com/CPAN-local/doc/FAQs/FAQ/PerlFAQ.html
#How_can_I_manipulate_fixed_recor
--
Jason Gloudon
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 01 Apr 1998 21:46:48 GMT
From: UCE-trap_synic@omen.net.au (Peter Caffin)
Subject: Re: Diddling with search engines via CGI
Message-Id: <3522b3f3.3845367@news.omen.net.au>
Tom Phoenix <rootbeer@teleport.com> petulantly snorted to
comp.lang.perl.misc..
:On Wed, 1 Apr 1998, John Russell wrote:
:
:> - Is there a method to make the search engines return very long lists
:> of results rather than a set of small pages with "next" links? Which
:> search engines are best or worst in this regard?
:
:This has nothing to do with Perl.
Rather than sounding like a spoilt child, you could have helpfully suggested:
"This has nothing to do with Perl, but, try asking the various companies who
write these search engines. It's all pretty engine-specific."
:> - Do all search engines use CGI-friendly ?-encoded URLs for their
:> query results?
:
:This has nothing to do with Perl.
And here: "This has nothing to do with Perl, but, you may have better success
on one of the groups in comp.infosystems.www.authoring.*."
:> - Is there reusable code specifically for working with search engine
:> results
:
:Yes, check out the Modules list on CPAN. Hope this helps!
And the URL might have helped for that. Yes, you might know exactly what and
where CPAN is, but, most newbies probably think a CPAN is what you cook potato
chips on.
http://www.perl.com/CPAN/
If you're going to answer them at all, don't intentionally confuse 'em (as
much as it may puff your shirt to do so). Pointlessly pratty answers are worse
than no answers at all, IMHO.
--: _ ___ _ _ _
_oo__ |_|_ |__ _ | | _ |_|_' _ synic at omen dot net dot a u
//`'\_ | (/_|(/_| .|. |_(_|| | || | http://www.omen.net.au/~synic
/ PO Box 869, Hillarys WA 6923, AUSTRALIA
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 02 Apr 1998 10:38:33 -0500
From: John Porter <jdporter@min.net>
Subject: Re: File::Find vs. File::Recurse (was Re: file trees)
Message-Id: <3523B0F9.3B33@min.net>
Peter Scott wrote:
>
> [File::Find] ... requires
> that you not modify $_ in the callback ...
What? Isn't that what 'local' is for?
John Porter
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 02 Apr 1998 09:59:12 -0500
From: John Porter <jdporter@min.net>
Subject: Re: foreach loop & current element index
Message-Id: <3523A7C0.78F4@min.net>
Ronald J Kimball wrote:
>
> If you want to know the index, use a for loop instead of a foreach loop.
For the benefit of the novices out there, I would like to point out
that, contrary to some usage you might see, there is no difference
in perl between 'for' and 'foreach'.
You might find the two names mnemonic if you come from a background
which involves programming in both C and C-shell (csh), because
C has a 'for' loop and csh has a 'foreach' loop.
But perl has both types of loop, and you can use 'for' or 'foreach'
with either type of loop, however you please. Perl doesn't care.
Camel p.100: "The "foreach" keyword is actually a synonym for the "for"
keyword, so you can use "foreach" for readability or "for" for brevity."
On the same page, BTW, we "note that there is no way with "foreach"
to tell where you are in a list."
I think there is one special case where perl gives you a special
variable indicating which iteration of a loop you're on:
if you're looping over the lines from an input filehandle, you
can look at the "$." variable to see which line you're on.
See the docs on this variable for important info on its usage.
hth,
John Porter
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 02 Apr 1998 10:43:18 -0500
From: Dan Boorstein <dboorstein@shopcfn.com>
Subject: Re: foreach loop & current element index
Message-Id: <3523B216.DF1FB50A@shopcfn.com>
John Porter wrote:
>
> Ronald J Kimball wrote:
> >
> > If you want to know the index, use a for loop instead of a foreach loop.
>
> For the benefit of the novices out there, I would like to point out
> that, contrary to some usage you might see, there is no difference
> in perl between 'for' and 'foreach'.
[SNIP]
>
> I think there is one special case where perl gives you a special
> variable indicating which iteration of a loop you're on:
> if you're looping over the lines from an input filehandle, you
> can look at the "$." variable to see which line you're on.
> See the docs on this variable for important info on its usage.
assuming that you are referring to *for* loops and not *while* loops,
then this is not the case. the filehandle read will return a list
immediatley and therefore be wound to its end from start.
for (<DATA>) {
print "line $. => $_";
}
__END__
line one
line two
line three
yields:
line 3 => line one
line 3 => line two
line 3 => line three
just wanted to clarify,
--
# dan boorstein <dboorstein@shopcfn.com>
seek DATA,0,0;print scalar<DATA>,__END__
Just another Perl hacker,
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 2 Apr 1998 08:15:39 -0700
From: "Tony Reeves" <areeves1@csc.com>
Subject: how to count a list of comma sep. items
Message-Id: <6g0a87$plr@hacgate2.hac.com>
I have a list of items that looks like this:
item, item1, item2, item3, item4
The list can be from one to 10.
I know I can use split to put them into separate variables, but how do I
know how may I got? is there a easy way to count the number of items then
store them in a assoc array?
like:
$countofitems = count(list);
for ($I = 0; $I<$countofitems; $I++) {
$array{$I} = $firstiem;
}
This is not correct code but I hope it gets across what I'm after..
please send email to if you can help
------------------------------
Date: 2 Apr 1998 15:47:02 GMT
From: Jamie Hoglund <jhoglund@mirage.skypoint.net>
Subject: Re: How to read from keyboard without enter?
Message-Id: <6g0btm$s10$1@shadow.skypoint.net>
John Klassa <klassa@aursgh.aur.alcatel.com> wrote:
: Can you give me a few examples of tough questions that go unanswered,
: but which are not of the FAQ or "do my homework for me" or "I'm having
: a CGI problem" (etc. etc. etc.) ilk? I'd be surprised if there were
: very many of these, if any.
Hmm... Ah, I know *this* question isn't in the FAQ!
If a tree falls in the woods, and there are no input devices to capture
the data of any potential sound....
Can a perl script determine if it made a noise? :-)
Jamie
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 02 Apr 1998 15:41:05 GMT
From: kroll@wiwiss.fu-berlin.de (Volker Kroll)
Subject: Re: HTML::Element::extract_links not grabbing frame sources
Message-Id: <3523b0ef.14247637@news.fu-berlin.de>
Try:
if ($html =~ m{<frame.*src=["]?([^\s"]+)}){
$link_on_frame = $1;
}
HTH
Volker
On Thu, 19 Mar 1998 18:41:15 -0600, opus@magibox.net (Brock Sides)
wrote:
>I've been writing a web client that uses HTML::Element to pull links out
>of pages. Anyway, I'm running into a problem grabbing the sources of
>frames. Here's a snippet of code to demonstrate the problem. I'm using
>Element.pm v. 1.35.
>
>#!/usr/local/bin/perl
>
>use HTML::Parse;
>
>$html = '<img src="foo.jpg"><frame src="http://www.foo.org" name="foo">';
>
>$parsed_html = HTML::Parse::parse_html($html);
>
>$link_ref = $parsed_html->extract_links();
>@link = @$link_ref;
>
>for (@link) {
> print $_->[0], "\n";
>}
>
>The output I get is just:
>
>foo.jpg
>
>--
>Brock Sides opus@magibox.net http://www.magibox.net/~brock/
>for(0..4){$humps="."x($_*2+1);$camel.="($humps)"}
>"Jtsutona reP reh\nrekcah l"=~/$camel/s;
>for(1..5){eval"print scalar reverse \"\$$_\""};
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 02 Apr 1998 14:06:24 GMT
From: jgloudon@manitoba.bbn.com (Jason Gloudon)
Subject: Re: integer or string ?
Message-Id: <slrn6i76m1.201.jgloudon@manitoba.bbn.com>
Eugene Sotirescu <eugene@vertical.net> wrote:
>Bitwise operators are less wise than you'd expect: they act BYTEwise on
>strings, so you do have to convert to numbers:
>
>$string = "141 255";
>$string =~ ~ /([0-9]+)\s+([0-9]+)/i; #why do you use i on digits?
^- Extra ~ ?
>$string =~ /(\d+)\s+(\d+)/; works just fine
>($a, $b) = (0 + $1, 0 + $2);
Why not recomend split :
($a,$b) = split $string;
and you can force bitwise with :
$c = 0 | $a & $b ;
--
Jason Gloudon
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 02 Apr 1998 09:29:22 -0500
From: fl_aggie@thepentagon.com (I R A Aggie)
Subject: Re: Is there a "Newsgroup" for Newbies to Perl?
Message-Id: <fl_aggie-0204980929220001@aggie.coaps.fsu.edu>
In article <lud8f04c1e.fsf@asfast.com>, Lloyd Zusman <ljz@asfast.com> wrote:
+ If in this hypothetical ".help" or ".novices" newsgroup, an arrogant
+ twit discourteously and condescendingly dismissed a question posed by
+ a novice without suggesting anything more useful than to read the FAQ
+ (if even that), the novice might feel a lot more justified in telling
+ the arrogant twit something like this:
+ This is a newsgroup where people who are not well versed in
+ Perl can come to share information and to receive useful and
+ meaningful help. Therefore we are not impressed by your clever,
+ but low-in-actual-information pronouncements. Learn some courtesy
+ or else shut up and go back to comp.lang.perl.misc.
A couple of points:
1. 'read the FAQ (4.12)' is high in information content
2. the people likely to do such a thing will also likely not
going to read .help or .novices.
In fact, a .novices newsgroup is likely to be _unused_ by the
very people you seek to help! "Wow, this is a tough question.
I want the right answer. Better ask a Wizard!"
They're gonna go looking for the wizards, and not people like
themselves. I can see a situation that will lead to massive
xposting, and possibly meta-flame wars.
James
--
Consulting Minister for Consultants, DNRC
The Bill of Rights is paid in Responsibilities - Jean McGuire
To cure your perl CGI problems, please look at:
<url:http://www.perl.com/CPAN-local/doc/FAQs/cgi/idiots-guide.html>
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 02 Apr 1998 09:46:18 -0500
From: Benjamin Sugars <bsugars@canoe.ca>
To: Mark Seuffert <captain@pirate.de>
Subject: Re: Need help with "shared memory" module IPC::Shareable !
Message-Id: <3523A4BA.107A@canoe.ca>
[ ... mailed and posted ... ]
On Tue, 31 Mar 1998, Mark Seuffert wrote:
> From the view of a user, I still can not understand why I'm forced
> to use eval-blocks... I think it's the modul that has to catch
> errors and should return (good) arguments if there was an error...
> that's not my work!
I have often wondered myself what the proper behaviour of tie modules
should be. I mean, in normal Perl you expect a statement like
$a = 1;
to Just Work. But for a tied $a there's potentially lots of reasons
why
$a = 1;
might not work. What is the module to do? It needs some way to tell
the script
"No, $a is not 1."
I'm not a big fan of croak()ing, but then I can't think of an
alternative either.
Having said that, I think you're right in that at least the
constructor should work as documented in that it should return true
upon success and undef otherwise rather than croak()ing.
Unfortunately, the weirdness of IPC::Shareable precludes a simple
patch, but I'll see what I can do.
> greetings from Heidelberg, germany
> Mark
Greetings from Toronto, Canada.
-Ben
--
Ben Sugars <bsugars@canoe.ca>
Senior Webmaster,
CANOE Canadian Online Explorer,
http://www.canoe.ca/
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 02 Apr 1998 10:46:34 -0500
From: John Porter <jdporter@min.net>
Subject: Re: newbie question:how to embed perl in html
Message-Id: <3523B2DA.2051@min.net>
Karl Dyson wrote:
>
> >> You need to use Server-Side includes.
> >Wrong. That is exactly the wrong answer.
> >Ever heard of CGI?
> Well let me see... Of course I've heard of CGI. And my response to the
> posters question was based around getting the server to paste in the
> output of a CGI proggy.
>
> If that's not what he wanted then I appologise. But the wording was
> "embed" CGI in the HTML and a SSI is probably what he wanted.
People often say "embed" when they don't realize that that's not
what they want. Besides, the poster (Bart van Praag, aka "M1")
only used the word "embed" in the subject line. The text of his
message was this:
> I have a perl script for a discussion group that outputs html.
> if I type: perl script.pl it gives the desired html output in
> my shell account.
> Question: How do i call this script from a html page?
This tells me that whatever is printing to his tty when he runs
the program at the command line, is what he wants to go to the
client via http. That clearly does not call for any embedding.
CGI fits the bill nicely. On the other hand, that is not to say
that embedding wouldn't work; I'm sure it would. In any case,
he'll have to check/modify the header lines his program prints.
John Porter
(By the way, completely dropped the attribution in your response.)
------------------------------
Date: 2 Apr 1998 15:49:24 GMT
From: "nwilson" <nwilson@globalserve.net>
Subject: Position in Toronto & Question
Message-Id: <01bd5e4d$cae770e0$e3845ad1@toronto-2>
My question is how long has Perl been around? What is the most experience
in years a person can have?
Web developer position available in Toronto Ontario Canada.
Perl is the most important skill the major bank is looking for in this full
time position. It will be used in a NT UNIX environment.
If Perl is your strong skill, please send your resume to
Nancy Wilson
Yoh Information Technology
905-825-8344ph
905-825-8921fx
nwilson@globalserve.net
------------------------------
Date: 2 Apr 1998 15:54:56 GMT
From: Jamie Hoglund <jhoglund@mirage.skypoint.net>
Subject: Re: Record size of DBM Hashes
Message-Id: <6g0ccg$s10$2@shadow.skypoint.net>
Chaviv & Shaily <csperl@madison.tds.net> wrote:
: I am using a DBM Hash. Seems like when the key and data size of a single
: entry is larger than 1024 Bytes - I get an error when trying to close
: the DB files with dbmclose.
: How can I enlarge the block size to accept larger records. Is there
: another DBM library that solve this problem?
: Thanks,
: Haviv.
I don't think Berkely DBM's have this problem. (never happened to me & I'm
sure I used more than 1024 bytes when I used them, though I didn't
actually test that)
You might want to use tie instead of dbmopen / dbmclose if you are using
perl5.
There is a comparison of DBM's in the perl lib somewhere. (the filename
escapes me)
Jamie
------------------------------
Date: 2 Apr 1998 14:53:56 GMT
From: bdwheele@indiana.edu (Brian Wheeler)
Subject: RFC: Standard GUI package?
Message-Id: <6g08q4$43m$1@flotsam.uits.indiana.edu>
I know that perl has several GUI packages available (Tk, XForms, Motif, etc),
however, they each have their own syntax.
Maybe a GUI module structure [sc]ould be defined which would abstract the
basic functionality. It would make perl GUI apps much more portable and
it was a bundled module, it would make installation _far_ easier.
Consider this bit of contrived code:
#!/usr/bin/perl
use GUI; # load the GUI base class
&Initialize("Motif","Tk") # try to use the first widget set in this
# list found. Each platform would have a
# default which is always available
$window=GUI->toplevel(\&handler,"My Window",50,50,300,200) # new window
$window->print("Hello World!\n");
&ProcessEvents; # handle the incoming GUI events
sub handler {
my($object,$message,@params)=@_;
if($message == $WINDOW_CLOSE) {
$object->destroy;
exit;
} elsif($message == $MOUSE_DOWN) {
print "\a $params[0],$parms[1]\n";
}
}
I think it would be very beneficial to be able to run this on _any_ platform.
A GUI-implementation inteface could also be provided so anyone can produce the
GUI look and feel of their dreams :) and have a perl interface to it...
Thoughts?
Brian Wheeler
bdwheele@indiana.edu
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 02 Apr 1998 16:23:10 +0000
From: Hans-Olof Hermansson <hans-olof.hermansson@postnet.se>
Subject: SCO Open Server
Message-Id: <3523BB6D.7F21BDD5@postnet.se>
Hello,
Does anybody know if there is a compiled version of perl 5.* for SCO
Open Server 5.0.0 availiable?
Or where I can find a gcc compiler for SCO Open Server 5.0.0?
Thanks in advance
Hans-Olof
--
________________________________________________________
Hans-Olof Hermansson
PostNet
Malmgatan 8
441 86 ALINGSES
Internet: hans-olof.hermansson@postnet.se
________________________________________________________
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 02 Apr 1998 10:17:30 -0500
From: John Porter <jdporter@min.net>
Subject: Re: Someone put my munged e-mail address on a spam list
Message-Id: <3523AC0A.590A@min.net>
John Stanley wrote:
>
> In article <3522e7fd.3383874@news.tornado.be>,
> Bart Lateur <bart.mediamind@tornado.be> wrote:
> >
> >It hardly costs any time to the spammer, since it's a fully automated
> >process.
>
> Yes, it is automated, and if the automaton is busy trying to send mail
> to a bogus address it is 1) not sending it to a real address, perhaps
> yours, and 2) wasting time. Since the automaton belongs to the spammer,
> the waste belongs to the spammer, too.
Bogus argument, John. Any program which sends spam can send it to
thousands (o.k, hundreds) of addresses per second, and it does not
know the difference between a good address and a bad one. In fact
there is really no way for a mail-sending program to know whether
an address is good or not. If the mail bounces, that message comes
back some time much later.
In case you haven't noticed, spammers never respond to any message
sent to the address they send from. If you reply to sender saying
"take me off your mailing list", or if your mail host bounces the
spam, it makes no difference; the spammer trashes it all.
So no, bad (munged) addresses don't cause the spammer to incur any
cost. (Any spammer who's paying per minute is braindead anyway.)
> Did I really need to specify that the spammer himself wasn't wasting
> his time but his system was?
No, but the fact undermines your argument. CPU cycles are cheap.
If spammers had to manually deal with every bounced message, then
address-munging would be effective. But they don't, so it's not.
John Porter
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 02 Apr 1998 14:14:14 GMT
From: jgloudon@manitoba.bbn.com (Jason Gloudon)
Subject: Re: Use of implicit split to @_ is deprecated
Message-Id: <slrn6i774o.201.jgloudon@manitoba.bbn.com>
Ronald J Kimball <rjk@coos.dartmouth.edu> wrote:
>Jason Gloudon wrote:
>On a related note, does anyone know why the 'Use of implicit split to @_ is
>deprecated' warning is not output in the debugger?
Because the warning is generated by the compiler, which finishes its job before
the debugger is executed.
try perl -wd:
hyssop:~/perl>perl -wd code
Loading DB routines from perl5db.pl version 1.01
Emacs support available.
Enter h or `h h' for help.
Use of implicit split to @_ is deprecated at code line 3.
Cannot print stack trace, load with -MCarp option to see stack at
/usr/lib/perl5/perl5db.pl line 1833.
--
Jason Gloudon
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 2 Apr 1998 15:56:30 +0200
From: "Alan J. Flavell" <flavell@mail.cern.ch>
Subject: Re: What does this one liner do?
Message-Id: <Pine.A41.3.95a.980402155312.121884I-100000@rsplus07.cern.ch>
On Sun, 29 Mar 1998, Ronald J Kimball wrote:
> Eric Bohlman wrote:
> >
> > Alan J. Flavell <flavell@mail.cern.ch> wrote:
> > : On Sat, 28 Mar 1998, Mike wrote:
> >
> > : > Ronald J Kimball wrote:
> >
> > : (quotes entire posting including sig, so that we shall know what
> > : conclusions to draw, and then says, inter alia)
> Eric, please go back and read the original message. You will see that I was
> not the original poster.
Please accept my apologies. In hindsight, the way in which I quoted
Mike's followup really doesn't make it clear which of us is supposed
to be the clueless newbie.
> I replied to Mike's post, Mike replied to my post,
> and the Alan replied to that one, replacing Mike's message (including his
> quotation of my entire message and signature) with the note you see above.
Right. Sorry about the misunderstanding.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 02 Apr 1998 08:17:45 -0700
From: Robert Goff <ragoff@sandia.gov>
To: Paul Holser <pholser@nortel.com>
Subject: Re: || operator in list context
Message-Id: <3523AC19.24B7078C@sandia.gov>
> I see that || returns the last value evaluated...
> but getting back ( 3 ) is not really what I meant.
> Is this just the way Perl works, or have I tripped
> over a bug?
You wanted it to return a list from a scalar expression? "There is no
general rule for converting a scalar to list context." <sic> Your
second line is the way to do that, where you can control the context of
the return.
--
=================================================
Robert Goff email: ragoff@sandia.gov
Sandia National Labs Phone: (505)284-3639
------------------------------
Date: 8 Mar 97 21:33:47 GMT (Last modified)
From: Perl-Request@ruby.oce.orst.edu (Perl-Users-Digest Admin)
Subject: Digest Administrivia (Last modified: 8 Mar 97)
Message-Id: <null>
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End of Perl-Users Digest V8 Issue 2232
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