[8286] in Perl-Users-Digest
Perl-Users Digest, Issue: 1903 Volume: 8
daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (Perl-Users Digest)
Mon Feb 16 15:37:38 1998
Date: Mon, 16 Feb 98 12:00:33 -0800
From: Perl-Users Digest <Perl-Users-Request@ruby.OCE.ORST.EDU>
To: Perl-Users@ruby.OCE.ORST.EDU (Perl-Users Digest)
Perl-Users Digest Mon, 16 Feb 1998 Volume: 8 Number: 1903
Today's topics:
Re: A Pubilc Apology. (Paul D. Smith)
Re: A Pubilc Apology. (John Moreno)
Re: A Pubilc Apology. (John Moreno)
Re: A Pubilc Apology. <tchrist@mox.perl.com>
Re: array question <tchrist@mox.perl.com>
Re: array question <chris@ixlabs.com>
Re: array question <chris@ixlabs.com>
Re: Big files, read into variable? <beans@bedford.net>
Re: Credit Card Check <webmaster@fccj.cc.fl.us>
Duplicate lines in associative array: keeping <keefner@kinetic.com>
Re: FAQless Forays (was: Code Example Needed) (Chip Salzenberg)
Re: formating a text file (hard returns)? (Clay Irving)
Re: generate gif images with perl ? <merlyn@stonehenge.com>
Re: htpasswd <webmaster@fccj.cc.fl.us>
Re: Interpeter For The PC <beans@bedford.net>
Re: Location: returns empty document? <c2@3-g.com>
Re: NPH question <webmaster@fccj.cc.fl.us>
Re: on reading FAQs and gurus answering questions (Chip Salzenberg)
Perl and-or-vs TCL <dphi@ix.netcom.com>
Re: Retromod considered evil [was: on reading FAQs] (Chip Salzenberg)
Re: RFC about "Matt's Script Archive" (Craig Berry)
Re: RFC about "Matt's Script Archive" <khera@kciLink.com>
Statistics for comp.lang.perl.misc <gbacon@cs.uah.edu>
Re: sucess stories? (Abigail)
Re: sucess stories? (Nathan V. Patwardhan)
Re: Syntax-coloring editor for NT <peter@humansearch.com>
Re: The Young Man and the Beach shaker@netusa1.net
WANTED UK PEARL SCRIPT PROGRAMER <info@dotuk.com>
Digest Administrivia (Last modified: 8 Mar 97) (Perl-Users-Digest Admin)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: 14 Feb 1998 22:16:15 -0500
From: psmith@baynetworks.com (Paul D. Smith)
Subject: Re: A Pubilc Apology.
Message-Id: <p5vhuhd0cg.fsf@baynetworks.com>
%% doswald@xmission.com (David Oswald) writes:
do> but if I were replying to someone's question, and my followup is
do> posted to a group of this volume, I would certanly send an email
do> reply as well. I don't see how this can be construed as rude;
do> it's courtesy.
I agree fully, although I have been flamed for this too, before. Too
bad. They ask for help, then object to the way I provide it? Who's
being rude here?
Most people appreciate it, since USENET connections are never 100%
reliable.
Anyway, I'm sure you're polite enough to _always_, _always_ note in your
email that the response was both emailed and posted. Not doing that is
_always_ rude, IMO, even if the person explicitly asked to be emailed.
--
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Paul D. Smith <psmith@baynetworks.com> Network Management Development
"Please remain calm...I may be mad, but I am a professional." --Mad Scientist
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
These are my opinions--Bay Networks takes no responsibility for them.
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 15 Feb 1998 01:06:36 -0500
From: phenix@interpath.com (John Moreno)
Subject: Re: A Pubilc Apology.
Message-Id: <F3A471D4E7600934.3E6D99702BAC9408.74A26DC457A61C7E@library-proxy.airnews.net>
Joseph N. Hall <joseph@5sigma.com> wrote:
> I find most followups to my posts these days with DejaNews. Too much
> crap to sift through otherwise.
I'd recommend that you look into getting MacSOUP, it clearly marks
articles that are following up to your post. It's a offline newsreader
but you could use it like a online newsreader if you wanted, but it
downloads the articles fast enough (and you can use it while it does so)
that it's really not necessary.
Mozilla (Netscape) isn't the best thing to use.
> By the way, I think it's completely outer space weird to say that
> an email cc: is "rude." Been USENET-ing 11 years now and that's
> the first time I've heard *that* complaint. Time was when the proper
> thing to do was reply via email and leave posting to the gurus.
I wasn't suggesting that you shouldn't move it to mail - that's often
the best thing, but doing both, unless you have a reason to think the
person needs to see your response quicker or that it is urgent that they
DO see your response, isn't necessary.
--
John Moreno
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 15 Feb 1998 01:06:29 -0500
From: phenix@interpath.com (John Moreno)
Subject: Re: A Pubilc Apology.
Message-Id: <F6320CBBE510DBA6.965BFD9976FFD0B3.B27067A42927F75F@library-proxy.airnews.net>
David Oswald <doswald@xmission.com> wrote:
> phenix@interpath.com (John Moreno) wrote:
>
> >....
> >sending a email copy should only be done when either the previous poster
> >has requested it or when the poster has reason to believe that THIS post
> >is urgent enough to require a mail copy. Doing it by default is just
> >plain wrong, not to mention rude.
>
> I can't say that I completely agree. I do agree that cc'ing a
> followup Usenet post to the person to whom the post follows is
> unnecessary and probably annoying when speaking of a Usenet group that
> gets less than fifty messages a day. But in a group such as this one
> where 200 new messages come in every day it is easy to miss a
> followup. I wouldn't consider it necessary to send a reply to someone
> when I'm only following-up to some philosophical debate (such as this
> one), but if I were replying to someone's question, and my followup is
> posted to a group of this volume, I would certanly send an email reply
> as well. I don't see how this can be construed as rude; it's
> courtesy.
It's a courtesy - depending upon context. If somebody ask a question
and you answer it's a courtesy. If somebody wants to discuss the finer
points of your answer it probably isn't. If it's in response to a
thread like this it is probably annoying. If you decided whether it
would have a cc then that's one thing - but if it's a setting in your
newsreader that applies to every message then that's something else.
--
John Moreno
------------------------------
Date: 15 Feb 1998 13:39:12 GMT
From: Tom Christiansen <tchrist@mox.perl.com>
Subject: Re: A Pubilc Apology.
Message-Id: <6c6r60$egi$1@csnews.cs.colorado.edu>
[courtesy cc of this posting sent to cited author via email]
In comp.lang.perl.misc, joseph@5sigma.com writes:
:I find most followups to my posts these days with DejaNews.
trn does this for you automatically, providing of course
it not have already expired.
--tom
--
Tom Christiansen tchrist@jhereg.perl.com
"Just because something is obviously happening doesn't mean something obvious
is happening." --Larry Wall
------------------------------
Date: 15 Feb 1998 23:12:31 GMT
From: Tom Christiansen <tchrist@mox.perl.com>
Subject: Re: array question
Message-Id: <6c7sov$o0i$1@csnews.cs.colorado.edu>
[courtesy cc of this posting sent to cited author via email]
In comp.lang.perl.misc, steveh@cent.com (steve) writes:
:@array = '';
That is horridly wrong.
--tom
--
Tom Christiansen tchrist@jhereg.perl.com
"Many folks want nothing more than to live and let learn." --Larry Wall
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 14 Feb 1998 21:15:27 -0800
From: Chris Schoenfeld <chris@ixlabs.com>
Subject: Re: array question
Message-Id: <34E679EF.F9D0630@ixlabs.com>
try this:
@array='';
Tom Christiansen wrote:
>
> [courtesy cc of this posting sent to cited author via email]
>
> In comp.lang.perl.misc, jahnel@xarch.tu-graz.ac.at writes:
> :is it possible to delete all values of an array so that the array is
> :empty?
>
> Certainly; several mechanisms are documented in the standard perldata
> manpage. You must have missed them -- I suggest you reread it.
>
> --tom
> --
> Tom Christiansen tchrist@jhereg.perl.com
>
> X-Windows: Warn your friends about it.
> --Jamie Zawinski
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 14 Feb 1998 21:20:53 -0800
From: Chris Schoenfeld <chris@ixlabs.com>
Subject: Re: array question
Message-Id: <34E67B35.C82FBE5F@ixlabs.com>
Oops, that won't work..try:
undef @array;
Chris Schoenfeld wrote:
>
> try this:
>
> @array='';
>
> Tom Christiansen wrote:
> >
> > [courtesy cc of this posting sent to cited author via email]
> >
> > In comp.lang.perl.misc, jahnel@xarch.tu-graz.ac.at writes:
> > :is it possible to delete all values of an array so that the array is
> > :empty?
> >
> > Certainly; several mechanisms are documented in the standard perldata
> > manpage. You must have missed them -- I suggest you reread it.
> >
> > --tom
> > --
> > Tom Christiansen tchrist@jhereg.perl.com
> >
> > X-Windows: Warn your friends about it.
> > --Jamie Zawinski
------------------------------
Date: 15 Feb 98 04:15:23 GMT
From: "TomH" <beans@bedford.net>
Subject: Re: Big files, read into variable?
Message-Id: <01bd39c7$7f7fd0c0$309163ce@beans.bedford.net>
Thomas Munn <munn@bigfoot.com> wrote in article
<6c5d42$8sf@nnrp4.farm.idt.net>...
...
>I am going to be reading in VERY large (around 80+MB) files.
Not so big really, I deal with files several times that size routinely...
...
>My thought is that I should read the variable into memory & then
manipulate it.
You might get better results by manipulating the data...
...
> What is the most efficient way to take a huge file, make some changes to
it via search and
> replace, and then have it spit out a new file?
Any particular changes? Perl is the best streaming editor I've ever used.
Read a record, make whatever changes you want, write it out, then read the
next one. File size is irrelevant. The -i switch even renames the old file
for you so you can write the new one with the original name.
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 15 Feb 1998 04:25:21 GMT
From: Bill Jones <webmaster@fccj.cc.fl.us>
Subject: Re: Credit Card Check
Message-Id: <34E66D22.DE9A7701@fccj.cc.fl.us>
If you've WRITTEN the CC checker, you will see
how to manufacture your own numbers :-)
It is all based upon checksums.
HTH,
Sneex
________________________
...Hack to Live, Live to Hack...
posting@antigo.com wrote:
> Hello, I've developed a online shopping cart for a company and have a
> credit card checker, however, I want to be able to test it without
> entering my actual credit card number. Is there a so called fake credit
> card number that would pass the credit checker? Thanks.
>
> Tim Lindner
>
> -------------------==== Posted via Deja News ====-----------------------
> http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Post to Usenet
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 16 Feb 1998 18:52:06 GMT
From: "Craig A. Keefner" <keefner@kinetic.com>
Subject: Duplicate lines in associative array: keeping
Message-Id: <34E8896A.C5A1957D@kinetic.com>
I read in multi-line file and want to display each line, even some of the
lines which are duplicates. Is there a way to simply modify this script
so that unique numbers are not assumed?
for $i (0..$#array) {
$partno[$i] = substr( $array[$i], -9 );
$text = substr( $array[$i], 1, -9 );
$text =~ s/\.*\s*$//; # strip off trailing "..."
$text =~ s/\'//; # strip off trailing "..."
$label{$partno[$i]} = $text; # assumes unique numbers?
}
use CGI;
print $cgi->radio_group('group_name', \@partno, '-', 1, \%label);
Craig
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 15 Feb 1998 13:48:30 GMT
From: chip@mail.atlantic.net (Chip Salzenberg)
Subject: Re: FAQless Forays (was: Code Example Needed)
Message-Id: <6c6rqt$ujp$1@cyprus.atlantic.net>
According to gabor@vmunix.com (Gabor):
>I always put my variables declared with 'my' or 'local'
>into parens, well most of the time.
Consider that:
if (my($x) = undef) { print "oops\n" }
prints, while
if (my $x = undef) { print "oops\n" }
does not.
Sometimes the difference is more than cosmetic.
--
Chip Salzenberg - a.k.a. - <chip@pobox.com>
"Hoist the failure sails, men! We're goin' home!" // MST3K
-> Ask me about Perl training and consulting <-
Like Perl? Want to help out? The Perl Institute: www.perl.org
------------------------------
Date: 15 Feb 1998 08:08:20 -0500
From: clay@panix.com (Clay Irving)
Subject: Re: formating a text file (hard returns)?
Message-Id: <6c6pc4$jni@panix.com>
In <6c4onv$ngq@newsfeeds.rpi.edu> "Justin Baugh" <baughj@rpi.edu> writes:
>Clay Irving wrote in message <6c47o4$9u9@panix.com>...
>>In <34e5358e.524144494f47414741@radiogaga.harz.de> martin@RADIOGAGA.HARZ.DE
>(Martin Vorlaender) writes:
>>
>>>John Davidson Highfill (davidson@unity.ncsu.edu) wrote:
>>>: I have been trying to make up a perl script
>>>: (I am VERY new to perl, and programing in general)(If it makes a diff
>>>: i am using linux slackware) that would atuomatically format a text file
>>>: so that is is say 70 char long bout would not cut off words (rather hard
>>>: return and put them on the next line).
>>
>>>Have a look into CPAN, the Comprehensive Perl Archive Network, at
>>>http://www.perl.com/CPAN/ . In the modules section, you'll find
>>>Text::Wrap.
>>
>>Even better -- Text::Wrap is included in recent Perl distributions.
>Is Text::Wrap the same as breaking according to newlines, or does wrap just
>take one biiiig line and break it into smaller lines?
The pod is available online at:
http://reference.perl.com/wrap.cgi?text-wrap
pod for the more full-featured, Text::Format is available at:
http://reference.perl.com/wrap.cgi?text-format
Happy formatting!
--
Clay Irving <clay@panix.com> I think, therefore I am. I think?
http://www.panix.com/~clay/
------------------------------
Date: 15 Feb 1998 06:47:17 -0700
From: Randal Schwartz <merlyn@stonehenge.com>
To: MARTIN@RADIOGAGA.HARZ.DE
Subject: Re: generate gif images with perl ?
Message-Id: <8cen153rq2.fsf@gadget.cscaper.com>
>>>>> "Martin" == Martin Vorlaender <martin@RADIOGAGA.HARZ.DE> writes:
Martin> Randal Schwartz' WebTechniques column #13 gives a comprehensive
Martin> discussion of the usage of the GD library and its Perl wrapper GD.pm to
Martin> output counters. It's at
Martin> http://www.stonehenge.com/merlyn/WebTechniques/col13.html
Well, I wouldn't exactly call it "comprehensive". Just enough of an
intro to let me talk about it for that particular application.
But, thanks for the reference.
print "Just another Perl hacker," # but not what the media calls "hacker!" :-)
## legal fund: $20,990.69 collected, $186,159.85 spent; just 198 more days
## before I go to *prison* for 90 days; email fund@stonehenge.com for details
--
Name: Randal L. Schwartz / Stonehenge Consulting Services (503)777-0095
Keywords: Perl training, UNIX[tm] consulting, video production, skiing, flying
Email: <merlyn@stonehenge.com> Snail: (Call) PGP-Key: (finger merlyn@teleport.com)
Web: <A HREF="http://www.stonehenge.com/merlyn/">My Home Page!</A>
Quote: "I'm telling you, if I could have five lines in my .sig, I would!" -- me
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 15 Feb 1998 04:44:30 GMT
From: Bill Jones <webmaster@fccj.cc.fl.us>
Subject: Re: htpasswd
Message-Id: <34E6719F.E211C0D9@fccj.cc.fl.us>
And, barring doing it yourself, get a new copy (in C source) from
www.apache.org - htpasswd inventors :-)
HTH,
Sneex
Michael R. Harper wrote:
> Luc Van Linden wrote:
>
> > Hello,
> >
> > The command "htpasswd" doesn't seem to work in my "perl"-scripts.
>
> <snip>
>
> You can always create your own htpasswd file using uuencode or crypt,
> right? I believe the basic protection scheme just uses the username, a
> colon, and the uuencoded password entered on the htpasswd command line
> to create the entries in the .htpasswd file. If that does not spark any
> creativity within you, please read on...
>
> Here is a post from a Unix newsgroup that may be relevant to your
> problem:
>
> Thanks for all of your help. Here is my solution, which I gleaned from
> everyone's input:
>
> A Perl script:
> #!/usr/bin/perl5
> for($i = 0;$i < $ARGV[1];$i++) {
> `test.exp $ARGV[0] $i $ARGV[2]`
> }
> exit 0;
>
> drives the expect script below:
>
> #!/usr/contrib/bin/expect -f
> set pw_dir "[lrange $argv 0 0]"
> set user_number "[lrange $argv 1 1]"
> set user_name "[lrange $argv 2 2]"
> spawn htpasswd -c $pw_dir/.htpasswd $user_name$user_number
> expect {
> "New password:" {
> send "$user_name$user_number\r"
> exp_continue
> }
> "Re-type new password:" {
> send "$user_name$user_number\r"
> }
> }
> expect eof
>
> I wasn't sure if there was a more concise was to access the $argv
> variable
> from expect, so I went brute force. This essentially allows me to setup
> an
> arbitrary number of usernames with passwords. Granted, having matching
> username and password is not the best security practice, but it sure
> beats
> running htpasswd 1000 times manually. Besides, that is just for my
> application.
>
> Thanks Again,
>
> Michael R. Harper
>
> Michael R. Harper wrote:
>
> > Why can't use a "here" document to input the password information to
> the
> > htpasswd command? For instance:
> >
> > htpasswd -c passfile mike <<eof
> > x3e2
> > x3e2
> > eof
> >
> > When I try the above, I just get prompted to enter the password. Why
> > doesn't it use the input in the here document? Is it a security
> thing?
> > Is there some way around it?
> >
> > Michael R. Harper
> > mikihasa@worldnet.att.net
------------------------------
Date: 15 Feb 98 03:43:59 GMT
From: "TomH" <beans@bedford.net>
Subject: Re: Interpeter For The PC
Message-Id: <01bd39c3$09d1eb00$309163ce@beans.bedford.net>
>Eric Umehara <momiji@slip.net> wrote in article
<01bd39bc$3827a8c0$ac8998d1@default>...
> I'm a novice Perl programmer.
...
> My question is, is their a way of testing perl scripts on my Win95 PC.
Yes.
Send some time reading the extensive amount of information found at these
sites:
http://www.perl.com
http://www.perl.org
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 14 Feb 1998 23:02:54 -0500
From: Chad Casselman <c2@3-g.com>
Subject: Re: Location: returns empty document?
Message-Id: <34E668EE.26219294@3-g.com>
P. Schmitz wrote:
>
> Hi everyone,
>
> Does anyone have any idea why the following perl script:
>
> print "Location: www.yahoo.com\n\n";
>
> doesn't redirect my browser to Yahoo!, but instead gives a 'Document
> contains no data' message? The same thing in a C++ CGI-bin works
> perfectly. Returning HTML works perfectly. But for some reason,
> redirects like the above don't work from perl scripts...
>
> I'm running perl 5 on Windows NT Server 4.0 with MS IIS. I sure hope you
> know what's going on, because this has me baffled...
>
> Pepijn.
>
I am having the same trouble! What is up with NT! I am unix programmer
but this crap don't work on NT! Please reply!
Thanks,
c2
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 15 Feb 1998 03:42:48 GMT
From: Bill Jones <webmaster@fccj.cc.fl.us>
To: "James H. Blackwell" <jim.blackwell@gsfc.nasa.gov>
Subject: Re: NPH question
Message-Id: <34E6632A.6BA39D88@fccj.cc.fl.us>
The way I got this to work (under Unix) was to name the CGI the actual name
of the each secure data stream :-)
Under Unix, the scripts can be called anything :-)
Good luck,
Bill
James H. Blackwell wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> been trying to force the download of a file by setting the MIME type to
> application/octet-stream then printing the file to be downloaded. Goes
> into opening the dialog box, but instead of containing the name of the
> file to be downloaded, it uses the name of the script.
>
> I'm using CGI.pm
>
> Jim Blackwell
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 15 Feb 1998 13:44:12 GMT
From: chip@mail.atlantic.net (Chip Salzenberg)
Subject: Re: on reading FAQs and gurus answering questions
Message-Id: <6c6ri2$uii$1@cyprus.atlantic.net>
According to joseph@5sigma.com:
>As far as "very easily" goes, I wouldn't describe the voting process
>as "very easy" no matter what the newsgroup or circumstances.
The problems aren't related to voting --- at least not the problems
that I'm aware of. News systems on autopilot abound, and there's no
way to arrange that all those active files will get updated.
--
Chip Salzenberg - a.k.a. - <chip@pobox.com>
"Hoist the failure sails, men! We're goin' home!" // MST3K
-> Ask me about Perl training and consulting <-
Like Perl? Want to help out? The Perl Institute: www.perl.org
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 14 Feb 1998 19:25:04 -0800
From: Dale Phillips <dphi@ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Perl and-or-vs TCL
Message-Id: <34E66010.1D22@ix.netcom.com>
I know that this is a loaded quesiton.
Does anyone know where I can fairly and equally compare.
I use perl now but know nothing of tcl.
--
--dp----------------------------------------------
Dale Phillips http://www.netcom.com/~dphi
dphillip@tabfs.com
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 15 Feb 1998 13:46:20 GMT
From: chip@mail.atlantic.net (Chip Salzenberg)
Subject: Re: Retromod considered evil [was: on reading FAQs]
Message-Id: <6c6rmr$uj3$1@cyprus.atlantic.net>
According to joseph@5sigma.com:
>Sure, we could retro-moderate clpm (some kind of robo-mod).
Retromoderation is a tool of evil. Dick Depew opened Pandora's box of
third-party cancellation, which was socially evil. Retromod adds to
bandwidth usage instead of reducing it, which is technically evil.
--
Chip Salzenberg - a.k.a. - <chip@pobox.com>
"Hoist the failure sails, men! We're goin' home!" // MST3K
-> Ask me about Perl training and consulting <-
Like Perl? Want to help out? The Perl Institute: www.perl.org
------------------------------
Date: 15 Feb 1998 03:17:00 GMT
From: cberry@cinenet.net (Craig Berry)
Subject: Re: RFC about "Matt's Script Archive"
Message-Id: <6c5mnc$8ls$2@marina.cinenet.net>
Mark Kramer (c28f62@world.std.com) wrote:
: In article <34E33BB0.8A9ACBE6@mail.uca.edu>,
: Cameron Dorey <camerond@mail.uca.edu> wrote:
: >Unfortunately, I am sure there are people out there trying to do just
: >that. I know, because I was once one of them (for about a week). Coming
:
: Can anyone reading this thread, where Matt has been referred to as
: either evil or bad, wonder why people don't jump up and down with glee
: at the thought of giving their code to this group?
Others (a few others) have said nasty things about Matt, but I'm
certainly not among them; Matt is one of the true and valiant Heroes of
the Net, the people who *give away* the fruits of their labor for the
common good. At its best, the Net can approximate to Marx's vision
("From each according to his abilities, to each according to his needs"),
and it's people like Matt who make it that way.
I think it fair, though, for negatively-toned conversation about the
merits of Matt's *scripts* to occur here. By making the scripts
available, by failing to follow various 'standard practices' (to the
extent those exist in Perl), and more significantly by leaving serious
problems in his scripts (e.g., the mishandling of concurrent file access
protection), Matt has invited criticism. To my way of thinking, such
criticism is both healthy and constructive. How else is he -- or are we --
to improve?
---------------------------------------------------------------------
| Craig Berry - cberry@cinenet.net
--*-- Home Page: http://www.cinenet.net/users/cberry/home.html
| Member of The HTML Writers Guild: http://www.hwg.org/
"Every man and every woman is a star."
------------------------------
Date: 16 Feb 1998 14:34:59 -0500
From: Vivek Khera <khera@kciLink.com>
Subject: Re: RFC about "Matt's Script Archive"
Message-Id: <x7en13ibrw.fsf@kci.kciLink.com>
>>>>> "MK" == Mark Kramer <c28f62@world.std.com> writes:
MK> In article <34E33BB0.8A9ACBE6@mail.uca.edu>,
MK> Cameron Dorey <camerond@mail.uca.edu> wrote:
>> Unfortunately, I am sure there are people out there trying to do just
>> that. I know, because I was once one of them (for about a week). Coming
MK> Can anyone reading this thread, where Matt has been referred to as
MK> either evil or bad, wonder why people don't jump up and down with glee
MK> at the thought of giving their code to this group?
Most people, in my experience, will fix security flaws in their code
when pointed out to them (including exchanging email explaining the
fix and the cause in detail). Others will not, because they do not
understand the implications or the generic flaw in the design. Those
people are "evil or bad".
--
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Vivek Khera, Ph.D. Khera Communications, Inc.
Internet: khera@kciLink.com Rockville, MD +1-301-258-8292
PGP/MIME spoken here http://www.kciLink.com/home/khera/
------------------------------
Date: 16 Feb 1998 15:43:21 GMT
From: Greg Bacon <gbacon@cs.uah.edu>
Subject: Statistics for comp.lang.perl.misc
Message-Id: <6c9mqp$ods$1@info.uah.edu>
Following is a summary of articles spanning a 7 day period,
beginning at 09 Feb 1998 14:50:31 GMT and ending at
16 Feb 1998 07:35:09 GMT.
Notes
=====
- A line in the body of a post is considered to be original if it
does *not* match the regular expression /^\s{0,3}(?:>|:|\S+>|\+\+)/.
- All text after the last cut line (/^-- $/) in the body is
considered to be the author's signature.
- The scanner prefers the Reply-To: header over the From: header
in determining the "real" e-mail address and name.
- Original Content Rating (OCR) is the ratio of the original content
volume to the total body volume.
- Please send all comments to Greg Bacon <gbacon@cs.uah.edu>.
Excluded Posters
================
perlfaq-suggestions\@mox\.perl\.com
Totals
======
Posters: 575
Articles: 1773 (776 with cutlined signatures)
Threads: 491
Volume generated: 3172.1 kb
- headers: 1235.2 kb (24,732 lines)
- bodies: 1790.1 kb (53,772 lines)
- original: 1298.4 kb (41,673 lines)
- signatures: 145.1 kb (3,004 lines)
Original Content Rating: 0.725
Averages
========
Posts per poster: 3.1
median: 1 post
mode: 1 post - 358 posters
s: 9.3 posts
Posts per thread: 3.6
median: 2 posts
mode: 1 post - 166 threads
s: 5.1 posts
Message size: 1832.1 bytes
- header: 713.4 bytes (13.9 lines)
- body: 1033.9 bytes (30.3 lines)
- original: 749.9 bytes (23.5 lines)
- signature: 83.8 bytes (1.7 lines)
Top 10 Posters by Number of Posts
=================================
(kb) (kb) (kb) (kb)
Posts Volume ( hdr/ body/ orig) Address
----- -------------------------- -------
177 392.4 (136.0/228.3/197.9) tchrist@mox.perl.com (Tom Christiansen)
80 133.3 ( 56.4/ 60.3/ 38.9) mgjv@comdyn.com.au (Martien Verbruggen)
51 96.8 ( 35.6/ 47.0/ 31.6) Russ Allbery <rra@stanford.edu>
35 60.8 ( 23.9/ 36.9/ 25.4) cberry@cinenet.net (Craig Berry)
31 40.2 ( 18.9/ 19.5/ 13.0) jdf@pobox.com (Jonathan Feinberg)
27 38.9 ( 19.5/ 19.4/ 10.6) jdporter@min.net
27 42.5 ( 21.3/ 21.1/ 12.3) bart.mediamind@tornado.be (Bart Lateur)
24 37.6 ( 19.1/ 18.6/ 8.3) rjk@coos.dartmouth.edu
23 36.3 ( 11.7/ 24.2/ 17.1) aml@world.std.com (Andrew M. Langmead)
22 27.6 ( 14.2/ 13.3/ 9.7) nvp@shore.net (Nathan V. Patwardhan)
These posters accounted for 28.0% of all articles.
Top 10 Posters by Volume
========================
(kb) (kb) (kb) (kb)
Volume ( hdr/ body/ orig) Posts Address
-------------------------- ----- -------
392.4 (136.0/228.3/197.9) 177 tchrist@mox.perl.com (Tom Christiansen)
133.3 ( 56.4/ 60.3/ 38.9) 80 mgjv@comdyn.com.au (Martien Verbruggen)
96.8 ( 35.6/ 47.0/ 31.6) 51 Russ Allbery <rra@stanford.edu>
60.8 ( 23.9/ 36.9/ 25.4) 35 cberry@cinenet.net (Craig Berry)
48.9 ( 15.7/ 26.7/ 20.8) 21 Denis Goddard <dgoddard@us.oracle.com>
42.8 ( 12.4/ 26.2/ 19.1) 20 linberg@literacy.upenn.edu (Steve Linberg)
42.5 ( 21.3/ 21.1/ 12.3) 27 bart.mediamind@tornado.be (Bart Lateur)
40.2 ( 18.9/ 19.5/ 13.0) 31 jdf@pobox.com (Jonathan Feinberg)
38.9 ( 19.5/ 19.4/ 10.6) 27 jdporter@min.net
38.1 ( 14.1/ 19.6/ 19.4) 20 fl_aggie@thepentagon.com (I R A Aggie)
These posters accounted for 29.5% of the total volume.
Top 10 Posters by OCR (minimum of five posts)
==============================================
(kb) (kb)
OCR orig / body Posts Address
----- -------------- ----- -------
1.000 ( 1.2 / 1.2) 5 "Tan Aksoy" <tan@morline.com>
1.000 ( 2.1 / 2.1) 5 intervisors@nospam.intervisors.nl
0.998 ( 14.2 / 14.3) 15 gabor@vmunix.com (Gabor)
0.988 ( 19.4 / 19.6) 20 fl_aggie@thepentagon.com (I R A Aggie)
0.934 ( 3.2 / 3.5) 5 lovegod@earthling.net
0.888 ( 4.0 / 4.5) 7 cowboy@cnnw.net (James L. Taylor)
0.883 ( 4.0 / 4.6) 6 "Eric D. Friedman" <friedman@uci.edu>
0.876 ( 2.3 / 2.6) 5 mwang@alhena.ibk.ml.com (Michael Wang)
0.867 (197.9 /228.3) 177 tchrist@mox.perl.com (Tom Christiansen)
0.830 ( 9.0 / 10.9) 12 Holly Sommer <SNIPhsommer@micro.ti.comSNIP>
Bottom 10 Posters by OCR (minimum of five posts)
=================================================
(kb) (kb)
OCR orig / body Posts Address
----- -------------- ----- -------
0.474 ( 5.1 / 10.7) 9 efflandt@xnet.com (David Efflandt)
0.467 ( 3.9 / 8.3) 13 joseph@5sigma.com
0.445 ( 8.3 / 18.6) 24 rjk@coos.dartmouth.edu
0.442 ( 3.3 / 7.5) 8 Dave Barnett <barnett@houston.Geco-Prakla.slb.com>
0.426 ( 6.8 / 15.9) 14 phenix@interpath.com (John Moreno)
0.425 ( 0.9 / 2.1) 5 Douglas Clifton <doug@weboneinc.com>
0.419 ( 2.8 / 6.8) 9 ilya@math.ohio-state.edu (Ilya Zakharevich)
0.343 ( 6.5 / 18.8) 16 "Webmaster" <bill@astro.fccj.cc.fl.us>
0.333 ( 1.2 / 3.5) 5 Shimpei Yamashita <shimpei+this+address+is+NOT+munged+.mil+.gov@socrates.caltech.edu>
0.288 ( 6.4 / 22.3) 17 chris@ixlabs.com
Top 10 Threads by Number of Posts
=================================
Posts Subject
----- -------
62 FAQless Forays (was: Code Example Needed)
41 Why is Tom Christiansen so rude?
36 Year 2000 Compliance: Lawyers, Liars, and Perl
36 on reading FAQs and gurus answering questions
27 A Pubilc Apology.
23 The Young Man and the Beach
22 RFC about "Matt's Script Archive"
20 RFC about ``Matt's Script Archive''
18 ? Regular Expressions ?
18 Learning Perl
These threads accounted for 17.1% of all articles.
Top 10 Threads by Volume
========================
(kb) (kb) (kb) (kb)
Volume ( hdr/ body/ orig) Posts Subject
-------------------------- ----- -------
131.1 ( 49.0/ 75.9/ 53.3) 62 FAQless Forays (was: Code Example Needed)
73.8 ( 29.8/ 41.4/ 31.0) 41 Why is Tom Christiansen so rude?
67.5 ( 26.3/ 34.4/ 25.3) 36 on reading FAQs and gurus answering questions
66.3 ( 30.1/ 33.1/ 18.3) 36 Year 2000 Compliance: Lawyers, Liars, and Perl
60.2 ( 16.9/ 41.6/ 34.5) 23 The Young Man and the Beach
45.1 ( 21.5/ 21.0/ 12.2) 27 A Pubilc Apology.
40.7 ( 3.6/ 36.4/ 34.4) 5 Perl Wizard Quiz
40.2 ( 17.3/ 21.5/ 15.4) 22 RFC about "Matt's Script Archive"
38.9 ( 12.4/ 25.7/ 16.6) 17 Code Example Needed
38.6 ( 12.5/ 26.0/ 17.9) 16 Syntax-coloring editor for NT
These threads accounted for 19.0% of the total volume.
Top 10 Threads by OCR (minimum of five posts)
==============================================
(kb) (kb)
OCR orig / body Posts Subject
----- -------------- ----- -------
0.945 ( 34.4/ 36.4) 5 Perl Wizard Quiz
0.916 ( 12.7/ 13.8) 5 How to get a listing of the file that is linked?
0.880 ( 2.9/ 3.3) 6 time for comp.lang.perl.more-needed ? (Re: repetitive FAQ posts)
0.878 ( 5.3/ 6.1) 8 Seriously Off Topic, but a Common Complaint/Problem in this NG
0.855 ( 5.5/ 6.5) 7 HUMOR: Userspeak vs Hackerspeak
0.830 ( 34.5/ 41.6) 23 The Young Man and the Beach
0.825 ( 14.1/ 17.1) 11 Binary Search Trees
0.822 ( 5.2/ 6.4) 8 substitution/expression
0.821 ( 3.7/ 4.5) 5 Possible bug in "or" operator
0.820 ( 2.7/ 3.3) 5 New Perl book reviews
Bottom 10 Threads by OCR (minimum of five posts)
=================================================
(kb) (kb)
OCR orig / body Posts Subject
----- -------------- ----- -------
0.496 ( 3.2 / 6.5) 6 Passing values into a subroutine from an array...
0.486 ( 5.3 / 10.9) 6 Good Perl editors
0.481 ( 1.3 / 2.8) 5 Alphabetical Comparison
0.473 ( 1.3 / 2.7) 5 Credit Card Check
0.472 ( 2.6 / 5.4) 6 formating a text file (hard returns)?
0.429 ( 1.6 / 3.8) 6 Perl documentation (was re: Perl Year 2000 ...)
0.428 ( 4.5 / 10.5) 11 "Mastering Regular Expressions"
0.421 ( 2.5 / 5.9) 6 How do I export environment variables?
0.369 ( 0.8 / 2.1) 5 Where to start.
0.301 ( 0.9 / 3.0) 6 More regular expressions
Top 10 Targets for Crossposts
=============================
Articles Newsgroup
-------- ---------
45 comp.software.year-2000
26 comp.lang.perl.modules
25 alt.fan.e-t-b
14 news.software.readers
13 comp.lang.perl
7 comp.lang.c
7 comp.lang.c++
5 comp.os.linux.advocacy
5 alt.perl
5 misc.survivalism
Top 10 Crossposters
===================
Articles Address
-------- -------
25 expand@infinet.com
15 Eli the Bearded <*@qz.to>
11 jjd@primenet.com (James J. Davis)
11 Remco de Korte <remcodek@xs4all.nl>
11 admiral@news.tiac.net ()
10 bart.mediamind@tornado.be (Bart Lateur)
9 jackson@usenix.org (Jackson Dodd)
6 David Lee Lambert <lamber45@EGR.msu.edu>
6 mbudash@sonic.net
6 Fabrizio Pivari <pivari@geocities.com>
------------------------------
Date: 15 Feb 1998 20:24:12 GMT
From: abigail@fnx.com (Abigail)
Subject: Re: sucess stories?
Message-Id: <6c7itc$hhp$1@client2.news.psi.net>
stephen farrell (sfarrell+usenet@farrell.org) wrote on 1629 September
1993 in <URL: news:87ra54n1lb.fsf@phaedrus.uchicago.edu>:
++ abigail@fnx.com (Abigail) writes:
++
++ > To do proper inheritance, you need to know the names the inherited
++ > object uses for its internal state, to avoid conflicts. But that
++ > breaks the entire concept "hiding" the implementation from the
++ > user.
++
++ Just prefix your member data (e.g., for package FooBar, your member
++ data should look like fb_whatever): problem solved.
Sure, you can just use $self -> {__PACKAGE__ . 'var'} where you
would want to use $var and get the current objects instance of
$var. It works. But it's not what convenient.
We don't need package either, we could just prefix every variable
with a prefix, yet package is considered very convenient.
Why is object instance data handled so different? I can't lexical
scope it, there's no automatic binding to current package like
other variables have. I find it inconvenient.
++ OO is very nice in perl, and very transparent...
When I first encountered, I thought so too. But the more I use it,
and the more I think about it, the more I dislike it.
++ > Abstraction isn't possible.
++
++ Well, it doesn't enforce making good interfaces/abstraction barriers
++ (like public in C++ and in idl for corba), but it also doesn't
++ /prevent/ you from doing this either. As a consequence it *DOES*
++ require more discipline for a large project.
That's *not* a feature. The more you can do internally to your object/
class without accidentely interfering with someone else the better.
Programmers should program, not spending time changing lists of reserved
words. I'm not requesting barriers such that it's impossible for one
programmer to much around in someone elses internals - if someone does
that on purpose, you kick him out of your team. But I want to cut down
on the time needed to clear out red tape issues. You should be able to
first define the interface, then later workout the internals, without
the worries that if I use "foo" as a variable - be it $foo, @foo or
$self - {foo} - I clash with someone else. $foo and @foo are protected
with lexicals and packages. $self -> {foo} isn't. And that really
annoys me.
++ What's missing most sorely (IMHO) is strong typing, and similarly
++ setting up prototypes for hashes so that you can't misspell hash keys
++ and also strong typing of those references as well. (though the
++ mispelling is moot with emacs and dabbrev-expand).
You can prevent misspellings by tieing your hash to an appropriate
object - but that will only give a runtime error. See for instance
http://cthulhu.mandrake.net/%7Eabigail/Perl/Strict/Hash.pm.
But that runs havoc if you try to subclass it.
Abigail
--
perl -we 'print split /(?=(.*))/s => "Just another Perl Hacker\n";'
------------------------------
Date: 15 Feb 1998 20:04:50 GMT
From: nvp@shore.net (Nathan V. Patwardhan)
Subject: Re: sucess stories?
Message-Id: <6c7hp2$g78@fridge.shore.net>
Tzadik Vanderhoof (stvhoof@netvision.net.il) wrote:
: produce any examples. I looked around in www.perl.com and on the
: Newsgroups and FAQs and was not able to come up with anything. Where
: could I find such examples (success stories) of large successful
: applications that have been done in Perl (preferably similar to our
I'm proud to announce that (a) I was able to complete a large, robust
application written in Perl, and (b) lost 20 pounds in the process.
See you at the top!
--
Nathan V. Patwardhan
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 15 Feb 1998 01:29:09 -0500
From: "Peter D. Kovacs" <peter@humansearch.com>
To: scott@softbase.com
Subject: Re: Syntax-coloring editor for NT
Message-Id: <34E68B35.2BD23D15@humansearch.com>
scott@softbase.com wrote:
: I also maintain Microsoft is *NOT* a monopoly at all. They have a commanding
:share of the market because the alternatives are so awful. Microsoft has many
:rival Intel platform OSes:
> OS/2, Linux, Solaris, and more.
>
> > They use underhanded
> > legalisms, lies, marketing, and their unique position in the economy
> > to destroy any competitors that might dare to oppose them.
>
> I see this acusation a lot, but I have found very little evidence of
> it. Most of the times this is alleged, the competitior to Microsoft
> has done itself in through bad business decisions. Some
> competitiors have actually shared their trade secrets with MS!
> Not smart. And then there's the case study of the fall of Lotus,
> a sad and pathetic story about how one of the best software
> houses was ruined.
>
I really hate to get into this debate, but I just can't resist. Theres a few
anonmalies in a free market which could otherwise be considered a straight,
pure capitalistic, "lowest price/best product" wins. It's called, listen up
now, *the network effect*. Yes that's right. Because I use Windows, and you
use windows we are actually *forcing* other people to use windows.
Don't believe it if you want, but it's true, and there isn't much we can do
about it.
There are lots of examples where an inferior product "excells" but only because
of a network effect. IP numbers for instance. Lots of protocols. etc.
Microsoft is really just riding a few good decisions made a long time ago.
I read your essay about microsoft, and I have only one thing to say:
a good OS will catch crashes and exceptions in buggy software. Any decent (I
guess there aren't many) OS shouldn't crash because of software.
Peter
---
Peter D. Kovacs
http://www.humansearch.com
http://m12.ellerypeck.uri.edu/cookie-lib/
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 15 Feb 1998 14:15:08 -0600
From: shaker@netusa1.net
Subject: Re: The Young Man and the Beach
Message-Id: <6c7icc$gok$1@nnrp2.dejanews.com>
In article <6bvgf3$rfp$1@csnews.cs.colorado.edu>,
tchrist@mox.perl.com (Tom Christiansen) wrote:
>
> Once upon a time, a sharp young man opens the window from his cottage
< snip >
1. For the past two hous or so, I have been wondering whether to respond to
this posting or not. (For the past two weeks or so, I have been wondering
whether to write on this general topic or not.] Obviously, I have decided to
respond. I probably will get some flames. Obviously, I decided to risk it. I
love Perl as a language. However, I love my freedom to speak out on issues
however unpopular (guaranteed by this wonderful country, the U.S and made
possible by the wonderful invention net and capitalism) even more. [One of
the things that made me make this decision was this: my fourth grader son -
born and raised in the U.S.- does not like the food in his school cafeteria.
He is organizing his friends to submit a petition to the school authorities
to improve the school food. I shouldn't hesitate to speak for the things I
believe in.]
2. I am writing this through DejaNews. My Internet Explorer newsreader
DOES mess up lines. I do not know how to fix it. I do know that if I
search DejaNews/ post in appropriate groups, I will be able to solve this.
I do plan to do this sometime. However, I do not have time and energy
for this, at the moment. I sincerely hope that the lines of this response
do not get messed up. If it does and it bothers you, please stop reading
this. If I waited to make this response until I fixed the newsreader problem,
I may decide not to respond; in any case, I don't have the patience to
wait now.
3. I have been programming for over twenty years. [I once wrote a book
proposal to Addison-Wesley for a beginner's book on Smalltalk, around
1988 or so. The series editor for the Smalltalk blue book - a professor
at Cal, Berkeley - liked it. The acquisitions editor did not like it. That was
the end of it.]
4. I am writing this rather quickly - at home, on my IBM PC. I am sure that
there will be some spelling and other errors, some people will misunder-
stand some of what I say. However, I do not have the time and energy
to give it the attention a professional paper deserves. [I am taking time out
of a paper I am writing, to make this response. Obviously, what I am
saying here is important to me. Maybe, just maybe, something positive will
come out of this.]
5. I have been taking part - reading and posting - in this newsgroup for
about one month now. I have access to DejaNews at home but not at work (where
I do not have access past the firewall; technical newsgroups are available to
us inside the firewall.) In this period, I have bought the new Camel and just
ordered 'Mastering Regular Expressions'. I am planning on buying 'Effective
Perl Programming' and possibly 'Advanced Perl Programming'. I looked at the
Sams Publishing book ('Learn Perl in 21 days' or something like that), in a
bookstore yesterday. This is the first time I have seen this book - of
course, I have read about this book in this newsgroup. I almost bought this
book. From the ten minutes I spent looking at the book, I think that it
provides a useful service. I am great fan of the dummies types of books. When
hundreds of things clamor for our time and attention, these type of books
make learning easier. People have written about errors in the book.
Obviously, they take away from the value of the book. However, they do not
destroy the value of this type of book. I have also been speaking up Perl to
several of my colleagues who program in 'c' and 'c++'.
6. On to the main topic, after all these introductory remarks.
7. This beach has been set aside for discussing Perl. The sharp young man has
made a tremendous amount of contributions to Perl which is available for
free. Does these mean that he 'owns' this beach, that he gets to set the
rules in this beach, that it is his way or highway, that even though this and
similar beaches are on the surface completely and totally open to anybody who
can swing $8 a month in ISP charges and have a PC, the sharp young man is
more equal than others ? What side you take in this debate may depend on your
answer to the above question. This situation is not unique to this newsgroup.
In several technical newsgroups, a few make unusually large contributions
even for the upkeep of the newsgroup (such as providing space for archives).
Do they get to control the newsgroup, especially if it is unmoderated ?
Questions regarding etiquette needs to answer this question. The only book I
have seen that talks about the beach in its subject area is the blue Camel
book. It certainly gives the impression that the beach is a friendly place
and that all newcomers would be welcome to ask even silly questions. (It DOES
say that some questions are too silly to answer. However, it DOES NOT say
that you will be called an urchin, a gypsy, a barefoot beggar, a known lazy
bastard, a Bill toady, etc., if you ask a question already in the FAQ, if you
asked a question not strictly related to Perl but that arose when using Perl
in a CGI application, or under a certain operating system, or if you subject
line is not descriptive enough or if you don't know how to prevent your
linewraps messing up or if you use the wrong newsreader. I don't believe that
Tim O'Reily will agree to this; but if the sharp young man sincerely believes
that he is being wronged, that the beach is being overrun by people 'not like
him', he should make this sentiment very clearly known in the section of the
book that talks about the beach. He cannot have it both ways.
8. I have made my main point. There is no need to go on. I do want to
address just one other point though. Nobody is putting a gun to the sharp
young man's head to answer a particular post. If he does not like it - for
whatever reason - he can just ignore it. There is no urchin physically
accosting him; there is no gypsy woman grabbing his hand and begging
him. In fact, some of the people asking the questions may not even be
aware of his existence. The questions are not addressed to him.
9. I want to close with mentioning something B.F. Skinner's daughter Julie
Skinner Vargas wrote about once in The Behavior Analyst. It seems that
Skinner would get letters from the public asking questions like 'You are my
favorite scientist, can you tell me why ?'. Skinner would respond to them
patiently, pointing to his books in the library, week after week. If you are
in the public eye, you have to deal with some of these; of course, you could
totally ignore these requests.
Regards.
Venkataraman ("Shaker") Chandrasekhar
A slightly older but definitely better looking man :) :)
-----== Posted via Deja News, The Leader in Internet Discussion ==-----
http://www.dejanews.com/ Now offering spam-free web-based newsreading
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 16 Feb 1998 12:28:03 -0800
From: "www.DotUK.com" <info@dotuk.com>
Subject: WANTED UK PEARL SCRIPT PROGRAMER
Message-Id: <34E8A153.7E3@dotuk.com>
Hi
We are a design company looking for a UK based PEARL wizard.
We need to have someone on hand to develop scripts for our client's web
sites when requied. It would suit someone in full time job and would
like to earn some extra money for a couple of hours work here and there.
We could offer our service in return.
Please email us DIRECT with your experience and what services you can
offer us.
We look forward to hearing from you soon.
--
Kind regards
Dean Walker
DotUK - Internet Design with Distinction
------------------------------------------------
Affordable Online Design, Marketing and Hosting
http://www.DotUK.com Email: info@DotUK.com
Telephone: 07010 700 DOT Fax: 07010 70 4 FAX
------------------------------
Date: 8 Mar 97 21:33:47 GMT (Last modified)
From: Perl-Request@ruby.oce.orst.edu (Perl-Users-Digest Admin)
Subject: Digest Administrivia (Last modified: 8 Mar 97)
Message-Id: <null>
Administrivia:
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To submit articles to comp.lang.perl.misc (and this Digest), send your
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------------------------------
End of Perl-Users Digest V8 Issue 1903
**************************************
