[8088] in Perl-Users-Digest
Perl-Users Digest, Issue: 1708 Volume: 8
daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (Perl-Users Digest)
Thu Jan 22 19:07:26 1998
Date: Thu, 22 Jan 98 16:01:30 -0800
From: Perl-Users Digest <Perl-Users-Request@ruby.OCE.ORST.EDU>
To: Perl-Users@ruby.OCE.ORST.EDU (Perl-Users Digest)
Perl-Users Digest Thu, 22 Jan 1998 Volume: 8 Number: 1708
Today's topics:
Re: living and free software (was: Re: source into bina (John Stanley)
MIME-tools 4.112 available on CPAN <eryq@zeegee.com>
Re: None <*@qz.to>
ORACLE_HOME not set! <mzelmanov@qquest.com>
Re: Perl problem with IE3 (Lynchqvctc)
Re: POSIX (?) under perl for Win95 (Martien Verbruggen)
Re: Programmers Wanted (Jim Michael)
Re: References to parent objects (Martien Verbruggen)
Re: return code 59136 <jdporter@min.net>
Re: Reverse of ReadParse <jdporter@min.net>
Re: Reverse of ReadParse (J T)
Re: update with ora_open (Martien Verbruggen)
Where do my "my" variables go in the debugger? <boys@aspentech.com>
Win32: Attach to a share from Windows 95? (Marc Haber)
Digest Administrivia (Last modified: 8 Mar 97) (Perl-Users-Digest Admin)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: 22 Jan 1998 23:38:53 GMT
From: stanley@skyking.OCE.ORST.EDU (John Stanley)
Subject: Re: living and free software (was: Re: source into binary code)
Message-Id: <6a8lad$986$1@news.orst.edu>
In article <54k9bshk12.fsf@gunnar.aladdin.net>,
Piers Cawley <pdcawley@bofh.org.uk> wrote:
>And precisely how is that different from the luser WaReZ d00d who does
>the same thing with a copy of _GalactoHaemaroids_ or whatever?
Because the businessman has SOURCE which is much easier to modify than
the binary that the wares dood has. That means that many more people can
do it. Have you MISSED the discussion here where people claim that
software should be free so they can modify it themselves instead of
having to pay someone else?
>> >We're buying the software. Sure I could dike out the licensing
>> >stuff but what would be the point -- we
>>
>> You could run multiple copies of the code for free. Saves you money.
>> You could run it at home, if you wanted, or if you change jobs and
>> didn't want to lose the functionality, you could take a copy with you.
>> That would be the point.
>
>Whose ethics are you talking about? Yours or mine?
I am not talking about ethics at all, neither yours nor mine. I am
talking what happens in the real world.
>You can run
>multiple copies of any code for free, whether or not it comes with
>source.
Not if it there is a license server that stops you.
>Lots of people have illicit copies of office software sitting
>on their home machines. How does having the source code make this any
>different.
Because when you have source you can edit out the license enforcement
code easily and when you have binary you can't. I could try doing it to
Matlab, but it would cost me a lot of time, and I would just have to do
it all over again when the next release comes out. It's cheaper to get a
real license.
>> Yep. Not everyone is. If everyone were honest, we wouldn't need
>> passwords on computers, now would we?
>
>And your point?
That those who are not honest exist, and they do things that aren't
right, like trying to use code for free that they are supposed to pay
for.
>The people who write this code are making money.
Not when someone takes it and uses it without paying for it.
>They're happy people.
Not when someone takes it and uses it without paying for it.
>So there's some lusers out there who aren't
>paying for the code, well so what? They'd take likely take it anyway.
Not if there are licensing checks that prevent them.
>> Yes, yes, yes, of course it could be done. Nobody has said it
>> couldn't. It would be much harder to do, and then you have to start
>> considering the costs of doing that versus the cost of buying
>> another license. As long as it costs more to edit the object code
>> than it does for a license, you save money by getting a license.
>
>Not that much harder to do,
Yes, it is that much harder to do, for the normal business application
user.
>or the sad geeks who fill up my newsserver
>with massive copyright violations wouldn't be posting great big zips
>of nominally copyprotected software to alt.binaries.warez.*
It's clear you don't understand the difference between "harder" and
"impossible". I didn't say impossible. I said harder. As in, it will
take more time to do it, and it is beyond many people's capability. If
it takes enough time, people will be inclined to pay the money.
>> >But in compiling the code one of the advantages of the software goes
>> >away; we can't see inside it.
>>
>> To you this is an advantage. To the author, it isn't.
>
>I'm sorry? Source code availability is one of the features of this
>particular code.
It is not always an advantage to the AUTHOR for YOU to have source. To
YOU it may always be advantageous, but to an author who is trying to get
some other work done, having people tweaking the code and then calling
him for help getting it working again isn't an advantage, it is a waste
of time. I don't know what "particular" code you are referring to, since
you mentioned a compiled program in the sentence where I said that it
wasn't always an advantage.
>It's one of the things that helps me make the
>decision to buy WebEvent over A.N.Other Calendar Program. The fact
>that it makes his software more saleable is surely to the author's
>advantage.
He has apparently weighed the cost of dealing with meddling tweakers
against the benefit of sales and thinks he comes out ahead. Not all
authors come to that conclusion. Again, here we are arguing a specific
piece of code as if the decisions the author of that code made must
apply to all authors.
>> That statement is simply wrong. Those who do not have the ability or
>> time to figure out what part of the object code to edit will not be
>> able to use the software for free if you don't distribute source. That
>> applies to most people. In other words, it does matter how you
>> distribute it.
>
>But those who do know how to do it will distribute it with the
>protection removed.
Yes, they will. But the guy who buys one copy and modifies it so he can
run 30 copies may not know how to get the one that has been modified by
the hacker, or the hacker may simply not waste the time because he isn't
interested. The employee on the way out the door may not feel like
taking the time to track down a hacked copy of a binary, but nothing
stops him from glomming onto source code already at hand.
>How else could they demonstrate to the world how kewl they are?
By hacking something important instead of a $30 business app. If it is
so trivial for him to do it, then there is no "kewl" to be gained by
doing it. Pick one and stick with it: easy or hard.
>> >> The question was asked "why would people pay for code they could get
>> >> for free?" When that was asked, there were two different programs
>> >Off the top of my head?
>>
>> Yep, there are reasons, but not as many as when you don't have the
>> source and thus can't tinker with the code yourself.
>
>And what reasons would they be?
Christ almighty, you listed reasons and then you ask me to repeat them
to you? Why don't you get a copy of your own article and read it?
>I think (I've not checked) that Cygnus sell the code under the GPL,
They can't sell the code under the GPL. The GPL prohibits selling the
code.
>but will only support those people who have actually paid money for
>it.
Yep.
>> >much O'Reilly are paying him, but I'm fairly sure that they
>> >wouldn't have employed him if he hadn't written perl.
>>
>> Ummmm, stop and think for a minute. I bet O'Reilly employs a lot of
>> people who haven't written perl. I bet the majority of people at
>> O'Reilly haven't written perl, or any other language.
>
>And your point was?
To counter your claim that Larry was only hired because he wrote perl.
Actually, you said "wouldn't have employed him if he hadn't written perl",
which amounts to the same thing. I think I did that.
>The question is not 'what criteria do O'Reilly use
>when they decide to employ J. Random Subeditor?' but 'Would O'Reilly
>have hired Larry Wall if he hadn't been the inventor of Perl?'.
And I told you that they hire LOTS of people who haven't written perl,
so the answer is "maybe", just like the answer to the question YOU
asked would have had to be "maybe" prior to the time they did hire
him.
>Maybe
>someone who actually knows the answer will be along to disabuse me of
>my notion that Larry was primarily employed because of Perl and I'll
>be happy to be enlightened, but saying that just because some people
>are hired for other reasons doesn't alter my point one iota.
Of course it does. If Larry would have been hired even if he hadn't
written perl, then your claim that he wouldn't have been hired if he
hadn't written perl is wrong.
I don't know Larry. Maybe they wouldn't have hired him if he hadn't
written perl. What I hear is he is a smart and nice guy. Why wouldn't
they have hired him?
>> Should we review the funding status of UC or just admit that federal
>> money went in the door?
>
>I haven't the faintest idea how UC is funded. But I was under the
>impression that several of the guys who wrote the code were there as
>as students and still paying tuition...
And, of course, they bought the computers they used to write the code
from their own money, and the lighting bill was paid out of their own
pocket, and they got electricity by pedalling a generator, and ...
>> Not by giving code away. They make a living giving classes, writing
>> books and articles, and other things that they get paid to do.
>
>I never said they did.
So why are you arguing with me when I am trying to argue that they
don't?
>But I did suggest (and again I'm sure Tom at
>least will correct me (in spectacular fashion) if I'm wrong) that
>people go to those classes, buy those books or read those articles
>because of the reputation that Tom and Randal have made for themselves
>by being generous with code, documentation and occasional sarcasm.
I think their reputation has been made more by knowing the subject than
by anything else. Would you go to a class given by someone who gave away
bad code, even if he was extremely generous with it?
------------------------------
Date: 22 Jan 1998 23:19:56 GMT
From: Eryq <eryq@zeegee.com>
Subject: MIME-tools 4.112 available on CPAN
Message-Id: <6a8k6s$9au$1@news1.teleport.com>
As I write this, the first official Beta copy of MIME-tools 4.x
is winging its way up to PAUSE.
WHAT IS IT?
This toolkit allows you to parse and/or construct MIME messages;
e.g., email messages with attachments.
PORTABILITY
The modules have been ported to Win32, and pass the tests
under Win95 using the GS port of Perl5.004.
THINGS TO LOOK FOR
New decoder classes. (MIME::Decoder::*)
More-sensible (and simpler) encoding strategy.
(MIME::Decoder::NBit)
Ability to attach to singleparts. (MIME::Entity::attach)
Better print/stringify support. (MIME::Entity)
Easier access to MIME attributes. (MIME::Head::mime_attr)
More RFC-compliant parsing. (MIME::ParserBase)
Preservation of preamble/epilogue (MIME::Entity)
WARNINGS
MIME-tools users be aware: there have been numerous changes.
PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE read the README-OR-DIE file before
blindly doing a "make install". The bulk of it follows
this message.
ONE MORE THING
As always, send me email the moment you have a gripe,
especially if something breaks.
Enjoy.
---------------------------------------------------------
MAJOR CHANGES FROM 3.0 TO 4.0:
Temp files
FileHandle::tmpfile is no longer emulated if you have Perl5.004,
which has fixed the tmpfile() problem; you should (especially
if running under Win32) get Perl5.004 ASAP. Otherwise, the
fairly-portable (if ugly) opendup() emulation is hardcoded.
Module structure
MIME::Latin1 is deprecated.
MIME::IO is deprecated; its functionality has been replaced
by the IO::Scalar, IO::ScalarArray, and IO::Wrap modules.
You will need these to run the toolkit.
New encodings x-uuencode (x-uu) and x-gzip64
are now supported.
MIME::Decoder has been split into a tree of modules.
Encodings
The '7bit' encoder now only warns of violations;
it longer uses the deprecated MIME::Latin1.
The 'quoted-printable' decoder now uses the newest
MIME::QuotedPrint,
and amends its output with guideline #8 from RFC2049 (From/.).
Output
Output format is slightly-different (but more sensible)
if you use parse_nested_messages() or have singlepart entities
with parts attached.
See MIME::Entity::print for details.
As of 4.112, MIME::Entity::print_body recurses for multipart
entities: this is more convenient and less surprising.
Debugging
All toolkit warnings may be turned off with config 'QUIET'.
See MIME::ToolUtils for details.
--
___ _ _ _ _ ___ _ Eryq (eryq@zeegee.com)
/ _ \| '_| | | |/ _ ' / President, Zero G Inc: http://www.zeegee.com/
| __/| | | |_| | |_| |
\___||_| \__, |\__, |___/\ Visit STREETWISE, Chicago's newspaper by/
|___/ |______/ of the homeless: http://www.streetwise.org
------------------------------
Date: 22 Jan 1998 23:21:45 GMT
From: Eli the Bearded <*@qz.to>
Subject: Re: None
Message-Id: <qz$9801221807@qz.little-neck.ny.us>
Learn how to pick a good subject:
<URL:http://www.perl.com/CPAN/authors/Dean_Roehrich/subjects.post>
Hal Wigoda <hwigoda@Mcs.Net> wrote:
> A associate of mine has a cgi form and script
> and he is getting the message "Document has no data".
Uhuh. And you thought c.l.p.m would have the answer, why?
> The data aceepted by the form was not written to the flat file in his home
> directory.
I fail to understand what relevance this has to the previous statement
or to perl.
> Any help.
I suggest your associate use a web search engine to look for "CGI" "FAQ"
and "Document has no data".
Elijah
------
by no means a CGI expert
------------------------------
Date: 22 Jan 1998 23:34:43 GMT
From: "Mikhail Zelmanov" <mzelmanov@qquest.com>
Subject: ORACLE_HOME not set!
Message-Id: <01bd278d$46f3d9a0$1a2bcbd0@mzelmanov.qquest.com>
HI.
I installed Perl 5 and Oracle 7 on win95.
Then I installed DBI 90 and DBD 47.
What I have to set for ORACLE_HOME var on win95 when I am connecting to
ORACLE ?
Thanks.
------------------------------
Date: 22 Jan 1998 23:00:43 GMT
From: lynchqvctc@aol.com (Lynchqvctc)
Subject: Re: Perl problem with IE3
Message-Id: <19980122230000.SAA11759@ladder01.news.aol.com>
If I am reading you correctly:
>a
>page, this data is used to search some flat files that are delimited by "|"
>and returns the found items in a web page.
>
>This script works fine in NS3, NS4 and IE4, but in IE3 it does not finish
>creating the page, always at the same point it stops. Is there a problem
>with IE3?
IE3 seems to not be able to handle the delimiter? I think I have run into a
similar problem with a %% delimter used in a "fortune cookie" file (one that
grabs a "random" fortune from a flat file that is delimited by %%)... It seems
to work fine on Netscape but not with IE4 (haven't tried it on 3)... I am new
enough to this that I've yet to get on the right track to "fix" this other than
to set the delimiter to be an end-of-line... and strip the "%%" from my flat
files. This kind of works, but not well. Good thing I don't need the darn
program tomorrow!
Good luck.
------------------------------
Date: 22 Jan 1998 23:03:54 GMT
From: mgjv@comdyn.com.au (Martien Verbruggen)
Subject: Re: POSIX (?) under perl for Win95
Message-Id: <6a8j8q$bid$2@comdyn.comdyn.com.au>
In article <19980122144901.JAA11968@ladder01.news.aol.com>,
lynchqvctc@aol.com (Lynchqvctc) writes:
> I have a wonderful program that I'd like to run on my server (for a
> local historical society-- so I'm doing all gratis); my computer is
> a Win95, and a basic "Sambar4" server, with perl 5.003 build315. My
> question is-- anyone know where "POSIX" is, or whether it will even
You will most likely need a newer version of perl. You can find
Gurusamy Sarathy's version of perl 5.004 at
http://www.perl.com/latest.html
This one should have the POSIX stuff with it.
Martien
--
Martien Verbruggen |
Webmaster www.tradingpost.com.au | If it isn't broken, it doesn't have
Commercial Dynamics Pty. Ltd. | enough features yet.
NSW, Australia |
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 22:52:17 GMT
From: genepool@netcom.com (Jim Michael)
Subject: Re: Programmers Wanted
Message-Id: <genepoolEn7JJ5.8r8@netcom.com>
Ari Burton, President of IMARI STUDIOS wrote:
: NOTE: We are telling you right now ahead of time that these
: "positions" are *****NON-PAYING*****!
If you read this gentleman's article and are considering working for
free in order to gain experience, might I suggest that you volunteer
your programming time to a local charitable organization? Perhaps
they need a web site where volunteers can sign up for upcoming projects,
etc.
Cheers,
Jim
------------------------------
Date: 22 Jan 1998 23:11:07 GMT
From: mgjv@comdyn.com.au (Martien Verbruggen)
Subject: Re: References to parent objects
Message-Id: <6a8jmb$bid$4@comdyn.comdyn.com.au>
In article <34c77225.31485503@news.demon.co.uk>,
dan@gulch.demon.co.uk (Dan Sumption) writes:
> I have hit a point where I have an object which needs to reference
> some of its parent's properties, and although I can't see any problems
object, parent.. Are you talking about blessed references and
inheritance here? You're using some of the terminology, but in the
code you submitted you're not really using the methodology.
[snipped stuff]
If your objects are blessed references (using the two argument version
of bless), and you actually mean parent as in: This object's class has
inherited it's properties from this parent (using @ISA), you can use
the special pseudoclass SUPER.
read more about this, and other good OO methodologies in
perldoc perlref
perldoc perltoot
perldoc perlobj
perldoc perlbot
Martien
--
Martien Verbruggen |
Webmaster www.tradingpost.com.au | I'm just very selective about what I
Commercial Dynamics Pty. Ltd. | accept as reality - Calvin
NSW, Australia |
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 17:48:10 -0500
From: John Porter <jdporter@min.net>
Subject: Re: return code 59136
Message-Id: <34C7CCAA.2220@min.net>
I can tell you what's happening to the number.
999 in binary is 11 1110 0111 -- that is, it has 10 significant bits.
Unix processes (and DOS/Win processes too) can only return 8
significant bits. The upper two bits are lost, giving 1110 0111,
which is 231. BUT, the value returned by system() has the process's
return code in the upper word, and other stuff (flags, signal numbers)
in the lower word. These are 0 if everything went as expected; so the
returned value is 1110 0111 0000 0000, which is 59136 in decimal.
Read the man pages for system and for $?, which you can use directly
in place of your $rc variable if you want.
hth,
John Porter
Douglas L Cordero, PhD wrote:
>
> Hi all:
>
> I am running a fortran executable that I know returns:
>
> STOP 999
>
> When I execute the thing ($prog) with PERL:
>
> my $rc = system("$prog < $args");
> print "RC=$rc\n";
>
> I get RC=59136.
>
> Can someone tell me what this 59136 means?
> Is it somehow mapped to 999?
>
> Thx!
>
> Doug C
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 17:50:37 -0500
From: John Porter <jdporter@min.net>
Subject: Re: Reverse of ReadParse
Message-Id: <34C7CD3D.40BE@min.net>
J T wrote:
>
> Gosh this is embarassing (diminishing regexp skills)...I am
> simply trying to do the reverse of the hex-encoding in cgi-lib.pl's
> ReadParse. For example:
> [snip]
The answer, of course, is to use CGI.pm instead of cgi-lib.pl.
It has routines to do the conversions you want.
------------------------------
Date: 22 Jan 1998 22:25:40 GMT
From: jtsai@saturn.superlink.net (J T)
Subject: Re: Reverse of ReadParse
Message-Id: <6a8h14$fia$1@earth.superlink.net>
Never mind...figured it out, pg. 128 of the camel:
$&
$MATCH
So I should've said:
$a =~ s/[^a-zA-Z0-9]/'%'.unpack('H2',$&)/eg;
Sorry for the waste of bandwidth...what was I thinking with $1...?
J T (jtsai@saturn.superlink.net) wrote:
: Gosh this is embarassing (diminishing regexp skills)...I am
: simply trying to do the reverse of the hex-encoding in cgi-lib.pl's
: ReadParse. For example:
: Have "abc!123 +"
: Then I should get back:
: abc%21123%20@2b
: Now, I have no problem doing this if I want to write some sort
: of atrocity that breaks the string down character-by-character and unpacks
: each non-alphanumeric character, then concatenates it into another string.
: But I _know_ this can be done in an one-liner...my failed attempt:
: $foo = "abc!123 +";
: $foo =~ s/[^a-zA-Z0-9]/'%'.unpack("H2",$1)/ge;
: ...I know it's ^^ this part
: that's not working because I get back:
:
: "abc%123%%"...
: ...but what am I doing wrong!?
: Thanks in advance for any help, and sorry for having to ask
: this should've-been-trivial question.
------------------------------
Date: 22 Jan 1998 23:06:17 GMT
From: mgjv@comdyn.com.au (Martien Verbruggen)
Subject: Re: update with ora_open
Message-Id: <6a8jd9$bid$3@comdyn.comdyn.com.au>
In article <34C76D2A.41C6@unipg.it>,
Pallotta Marco <marcop@unipg.it> writes:
> I've a big problem with ora_open. In particular the sql command "update"
> doesn't work with ora_perl statment ora_open.
> It's strange, as with the other sql commands it works very well.
ora_open and ora_perl are not part of perl really.. Which modules are
you using? have you tried contacting the author of this stuff? Do you
actually have permission to use the sql update command on the server?
Martien
--
Martien Verbruggen |
Webmaster www.tradingpost.com.au | Begin at the beginning and go on till
Commercial Dynamics Pty. Ltd. | you come to the end; then stop.
NSW, Australia |
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 22:50:40 +0000
From: Ian Boys <boys@aspentech.com>
Subject: Where do my "my" variables go in the debugger?
Message-Id: <34C7CD40.5656@aspentech.com>
I was trying out some perl constructs in the debugger, but I hit a
puzzle I can't solve. I automatically declared a variable with "my"
before I used it (declaring variables is good, right?), but then I found
I couldn't see it afterwards. Where did it go?
Example:
% perl -v
This is perl, version 5.004_01
% perl -de1
Loading DB routines from perl5db.pl version 1
Emacs support available.
Enter h or `h h' for help.
main::(-e:1): 1
DB<1> exit
DB::fake::(/usr/local/lib/perl5/perl5db.pl:2043):
2043: "Debugged program terminated. Use `q' to quit or `R' to
restart.";
DB<2> $foo=1
DB<3> my $bar=2
DB<4> V
$foo = 1
DB<4>
I like the way that V pretty-prints structures, but I can't find any
way to get at bar with V. How would I do this? Or should I not bother
with "my" in the debugger and let variables be auto-declared? Are there
any traps (I was trying complex structures with hashes and stuff)?
PS: Is there any way to get straight into the debugger without it trying
to debug a script? Having to debug "1" and then exit seems clumsy,
somehow.
Ian
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 23:14:17 GMT
From: Marc.Haber-usenet@gmx.de (Marc Haber)
Subject: Win32: Attach to a share from Windows 95?
Message-Id: <6a8jsa$1he$2@nz12.rz.uni-karlsruhe.de>
Hi!
I am running perl as a luxury login script processor on Windows 95.
Net::Resource cannot be used to attach to resources shared by the
Windows NT server. Since I cannot see a problem with connecting to
shared resources from Windows 95 (the OS does it itself): Has someone
written a module that works under Windows 95 too?
I know that is should be possible to call "net use" from the perl
script, but there should be more than one way to do it, shouldn't it?
Any hints will be appreciated.
Greetings
Marc
--
-------------------------------------- !! No courtesy copies, please !! -----
Marc Haber | " Questions are the | Mailadresse im Header
Karlsruhe, Germany | Beginning of Wisdom " | Fon: *49 721 966 32 15
Nordisch by Nature | Lt. Worf, TNG "Rightful Heir" | Fax: *49 721 966 31 29
------------------------------
Date: 8 Mar 97 21:33:47 GMT (Last modified)
From: Perl-Request@ruby.oce.orst.edu (Perl-Users-Digest Admin)
Subject: Digest Administrivia (Last modified: 8 Mar 97)
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------------------------------
End of Perl-Users Digest V8 Issue 1708
**************************************
