[6759] in Perl-Users-Digest
Perl-Users Digest, Issue: 384 Volume: 8
daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (Perl-Users Digest)
Mon Apr 28 07:17:46 1997
Date: Mon, 28 Apr 97 04:00:25 -0700
From: Perl-Users Digest <Perl-Users-Request@ruby.OCE.ORST.EDU>
To: Perl-Users@ruby.OCE.ORST.EDU (Perl-Users Digest)
Perl-Users Digest Mon, 28 Apr 1997 Volume: 8 Number: 384
Today's topics:
Re: 2D matrices <rra@stanford.edu>
bootstrap problem <dmi1@no-spam-ra.msstate.edu>
bootstrap problem <dmi1@no-spam-ra.msstate.edu>
bootstrap problem <dmi1@no-spam-ra.msstate.edu>
Re: case-sensitivity in man (Was: Re: 2D matrices) <a.aitken@unl.ac.uk>
Re: Does somebody know how to open and write a Perl fil <...petri.backstrom@icl.fi>
Re: dos2unix (Tad McClellan)
HOW : lotus notes interface to PERL ? <uma@heidelbg.ibm.com>
Ldsa rader och jdmfvra dem med $FORM{'username'} funkar <labah@algonet.se>
News::NNTPClient and HEAD command <otisg@panther.middlebury.edu>
Re: Notice to antispammers (Mark Mills)
Re: Notice to antispammers (Tung-chiang Yang)
Re: Object IDs are good ( was: Object IDs are bad ) (Paul Wilson)
Re: Object IDs are good ( was: Object IDs are bad ) <thomas_beale@invest.amp.com.au>
Re: Object IDs are good ( was: Object IDs are bad ) (Paul Wilson)
Re: Object IDs are good ( was: Object IDs are bad ) <augustss@cs.chalmers.se>
ODBC driver for Oracle 7.3 on NT4.0 <Hans.Suijkerbuijk@SD.BE>
Re: please help - cgi database access script / program <santiago@gambito.com>
popen like function in perl (Kevin Mulholland)
Re: Question: nested comment '('...')' removal? (Chris Cole)
Re: Your opinions about software piracy <pola.gupta@uni.edu>
Digest Administrivia (Last modified: 8 Mar 97) (Perl-Users-Digest Admin)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: 27 Apr 1997 23:51:20 -0700
From: Russ Allbery <rra@stanford.edu>
Subject: Re: 2D matrices
Message-Id: <qumsp0bzllj.fsf@cyclone.stanford.edu>
Kyzer <junkmail@sysa.abdn.ac.uk> writes:
> In general, but why should have to type man perlLoL ?
You don't. You have to type man perllol. I personally generally expect
man pages to be in all lowercase.
> function names are case dependent (good), but the man pages are too;
> therefore they make most function names in unix lowercase because
> programmers prefer all-lowercase.
Umm...no, the reason why the function names are in all lowercase is
because that's the most common programming style and the one that's
generally taught. You'll find that's *not* the case for X function calls
and a lot of C++ programming (although I personally utterly detest mixed
case function names in nearly all circumstances).
--
Russ Allbery (rra@stanford.edu) <URL:http://www.eyrie.org/~eagle/>
------------------------------
Date: 27 Apr 1997 21:08:48 -0500
From: David Ishee <dmi1@no-spam-ra.msstate.edu>
Subject: bootstrap problem
Message-Id: <m3rafvx5jj.fsf@gsubc.dot.edu>
I've just upgraded my Red Hat Linux system from 4.0 to 4.1. One of my
perl scripts that uses a module called Msql.pm has quit working. When
I run it I get this error:
Can't find loadable object for module Msql in @INC
(/usr/lib/perl5/i386-linux/5.003 /usr/lib/perl5
/usr/lib/perl5/site_perl/i386-linux /usr/lib/perl5/site_perl .) at
/usr/lib/perl5/site_perl/Msql.pm line 70 BEGIN failed--compilation
aborted at ./guibook line 3.
Line 3 of my script is: use Msql;
Line 70 of Msql.pm is: bootstrap Msql;
Msql.pm is in /usr/lib/perl5/site_perl/
I'm using perl version 5.003 with EMBED
This script was working fine. Any idea what the problem is?
David
+--------------------------------------------------------------------+
| David Ishee |
| MS grad student, Mechanical Engineering dmi1@ra.msstate.edu |
| Mississippi State University |
| |
+------------- http://www2.msstate.edu/~dmi1/index.html -------------+
------------------------------
Date: 27 Apr 1997 21:09:17 -0500
From: David Ishee <dmi1@no-spam-ra.msstate.edu>
Subject: bootstrap problem
Message-Id: <m3pvvfx5iq.fsf@gsubc.dot.edu>
I've just upgraded my Red Hat Linux system from 4.0 to 4.1. One of my
perl scripts that uses a module called Msql.pm has quit working. When
I run it I get this error:
Can't find loadable object for module Msql in @INC
(/usr/lib/perl5/i386-linux/5.003 /usr/lib/perl5
/usr/lib/perl5/site_perl/i386-linux /usr/lib/perl5/site_perl .) at
/usr/lib/perl5/site_perl/Msql.pm line 70 BEGIN failed--compilation
aborted at ./guibook line 3.
Line 3 of my script is: use Msql;
Line 70 of Msql.pm is: bootstrap Msql;
Msql.pm is in /usr/lib/perl5/site_perl/
I'm using perl version 5.003 with EMBED
This script was working fine. Any idea what the problem is?
David
+--------------------------------------------------------------------+
| David Ishee |
| MS grad student, Mechanical Engineering dmi1@ra.msstate.edu |
| Mississippi State University |
| |
+------------- http://www2.msstate.edu/~dmi1/index.html -------------+
------------------------------
Date: 26 Apr 1997 21:53:10 -0500
From: David Ishee <dmi1@no-spam-ra.msstate.edu>
Subject: bootstrap problem
Message-Id: <m3wwppw50p.fsf@gsubc.dot.edu>
I've just upgraded my Red Hat Linux system from 4.0 to 4.1. One of my
perl scripts that uses a module called Msql.pm has quit working. When
I run it I get this error:
Can't find loadable object for module Msql in @INC
(/usr/lib/perl5/i386-linux/5.003 /usr/lib/perl5
/usr/lib/perl5/site_perl/i386-linux /usr/lib/perl5/site_perl .) at
/usr/lib/perl5/site_perl/Msql.pm line 70 BEGIN failed--compilation
aborted at ./guibook line 3.
Line 3 of my script is: use Msql;
Line 70 of Msql.pm is: bootstrap Msql;
Msql.pm is in /usr/lib/perl5/site_perl/
I'm using perl version 5.003 with EMBED
This script was working fine. Any idea what the problem is?
David
+--------------------------------------------------------------------+
| David Ishee |
| MS grad student, Mechanical Engineering dmi1@ra.msstate.edu |
| Mississippi State University |
| |
+------------- http://www2.msstate.edu/~dmi1/index.html -------------+
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 28 Apr 1997 11:22:21 +0100
From: Alastair Aitken <a.aitken@unl.ac.uk>
Subject: Re: case-sensitivity in man (Was: Re: 2D matrices)
Message-Id: <33647A5D.74A0@unl.ac.uk>
Tom Grydeland wrote:
>
> junkmail@sysa.abdn.ac.uk (Kyzer) writes:
>
> > In general, but why should have to type man perlLoL ?
> [...]
> > That's just stupidity. (I would welcome a 'man -i' a-la grep -i)
>
> At least on my system, man -k is case insensitive. That's a start.
Not mine. And a number of perl features are listed in mixed case.
"Benchmark" is one. Funnily enough, although the correct syntax is:
use Carp;
Carp.3 in /usr/share/man/man3 (my system) lists the command under
"carp". Because of the mismatch between
the internal representation of the command and the filename (Carp on the
outsidfe, carp on the inside), catman would not build the windex
database in a usable fashion. I changed the name of the file to carp.3
and, lo and behold, it worke. man -k carp yields a reference for
carp(3) and man -s3 carp prints the manpage.
*sigh*, nothing's perfect.
Alastair.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 28 Apr 1997 12:37:08 +0200
From: Petri Backstrom <...petri.backstrom@icl.fi>
Subject: Re: Does somebody know how to open and write a Perl file in a windows95 server?
Message-Id: <33647DD4.585F@icl.fi>
dianne cooper wrote:
>
> Does anybody know how to open and write files in a Windows95 server?
> That's the only thing that is stopping me from using Perl scripts.
Well, no matter what kind of box you use, with Perl to open
a file you call open(), and then use print to print to it:
local( *FH );
open( FH, '>file' ) or die "open failed";
print FH $whatever_etc;
close( FH );
For details see the documentation in perlfunc.
On Windows (NT | 95) with Perl, it is preferred that for
filenames you use forward slashes as separators:
'd:/dir/subdir/filename'
Otherwise it easily becomes unreadable (especially if you
use double quotes to allow for interpolation of variables:
"$drive:/$dir/$filename"
If you'd used backslashes, it'd look look like this:
"$drive:\\$dir\\$filename"
Besides the above, there shouldn't be any problems opening
and writing to files under Windows 95 (except that there is
no file system protection & anybody can open any file and do
whatever they want with it, which should be something to
watch for, if your "server" is used also by others through
the network; consider using Windows NT with NTFS or some
other operating system with file level access control).
Nothing can stop you from using Perl scripts now ;-)
regards,
...petri.backstrom@icl.fi
ICL Data Oy
Finland
P.S. However, should it happen that your question really
wasn't "How to open and write files in Perl on
Winodws 95?" but something else, then you'd better
start by looking at http://www.perl.com/FAQ/ and
http://www.endcontsw.com/people/evangelo/Perl_for_Win32_FAQ.html
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 27 Apr 1997 21:57:37 -0500
From: tadmc@flash.net (Tad McClellan)
Subject: Re: dos2unix
Message-Id: <1n31k5.p73.ln@localhost>
Tammy Cotter (cottert@sonic.net) wrote:
: I've just gone through a few weeks of hell and wanted to save anyone else
: the same prediciment. This is mainly for the newsgroup history files.
: First the guts, then my story:
: ____________________________________________________________________________
: ______
: When writting a script on a windows/dos based system and uploading it to a
^^^^^^^^^
: UNIX system you must translate your file using the "dos2unix" command.
If you do your FTP transfer in "ASCII" mode, rather than in "binary"
mode, then _ftp_ should do the translations of the line endings (which
is basically what dos2unix does).
: Example. you upload your ascii text file "joe.pl" and are now on your
: shell. At the prompt type in
: dos2unix joe.pl
: that will translate it (eliminate the [ctrl]M's)
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
You can do that with a perl one-liner too:
perl -pi.bak -e 's/\r//' joe.pl
(joe.pl.bak will hold the original (DOS) contents)
: ____________________________________________________________________________
: _______
: My story:
: First, this is my first programming since High School in the Mid '80's (on
: apple IIe's). But Perl looked easy enough so I thought I'd try it.
: I got a copy of FORMMAIL.PL made my adjustments and loaded up on the server
: - It didn't work.
: Someone then told me I needed to dos2unix the thing (didn't know what that
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
: was)- so I searched around the net and came to
^^^
: http://traffic.ce.gatech.edu/courses/ce2523/dos2unix.htm
Different Operating Systems (or brain dead program loaders from the
Evil Empire) use different styles for marking the end of a line:
Unix uses \n (ASCII linefeed, 10 decimal)
DOS and spawn use \r\n (ASCII carriage return/linefeed, 13/10 decimal)
Mac uses \r (ASCII carriage return, 13 decimal)
So, to convert dos2unix, you need to delete the carriage returns.
[ snip the rest of the story ]
--
Tad McClellan SGML Consulting
Tag And Document Consulting Perl programming
tadmc@flash.net
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 28 Apr 1997 07:45:27 +0200
From: Uma Shanker <uma@heidelbg.ibm.com>
Subject: HOW : lotus notes interface to PERL ?
Message-Id: <33643976.41C6@heidelbg.ibm.com>
hello
How are you.
I search the FAQ. Sorry if this question was allready there.
Is it possible to access Lotus notes database through perl ?
Any link.
Thanks
uma shanker
uma@heidelbg.ibm.com
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 28 Apr 1997 07:02:57 +0200
From: Jonas Thvrnvall <labah@algonet.se>
Subject: Ldsa rader och jdmfvra dem med $FORM{'username'} funkar ej
Message-Id: <33642F81.7B4@algonet.se>
Varfvr blir fvljande kod alltid 'true'?
Jag fvrsvker ldsa rader och jdmfvra dem med $FORM{'username'},
jag ser att samma namn upprepas trots detta blir satsen aldrig falsk
kan negon hjdlpa mig?
# Rdkna rader
open (FILE,"$users") || die "Can't Open $users: $!\n";
@LINES=<FILE>;
close(FILE);
$SIZE=@LINES;
# Vppna och skriv
open (GUEST,">$users") || die "Can't Open $users: $!\n";
$new='true';
for ($i=0;$i<=$SIZE;$i++) {
$_=$LINES[$i];
if ($FORM{'username'} eq $_) {
$new='false';
}
print GUEST $_;
}
if ($new eq 'true'){print GUEST "$FORM{'username'}\n";}
close (GUEST);
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 28 Apr 1997 03:11:22 -0400
From: "Otis Gospodnetic" <otisg@panther.middlebury.edu>
Subject: News::NNTPClient and HEAD command
Message-Id: <5k1i7n$141c@tiger.middlebury.edu>
Hello,
I'm having a problem with News::NNTPClient and HEAD command.
When a script that uses News::NNTPClient issues a HEAD command, I often get
a an error like this:
News::NNTPClient::SOCK1 command: HEAD <33645689.722F@worldnet.att.net>
News::NNTPClient::SOCK1 result(430): No such article
NNTPERROR: 430 No such article
I became a bit suspicious so I tried issuing HEAD to our news server
myself.
It turned that there IS an article the script was looking for, and I DID
get its Header and all.
Here:
HEAD <33645689.722F@worldnet.att.net>
221 0 head <33645689.722F@worldnet.att.net>
Path: tiger.middlebury.edu!cam-news-feed3.bbnplanet.com!cam-news-hub1.bbnpla
net.com!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.c
om!news.bbnplanet.com!worldnet.att.net!newsadm
From: Kurt Lochner <CaptAnd@worldnet.att.net>
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: More FRAUD from the Spam King
Date: Mon, 28 Apr 1997 00:49:29 -0700
Organization: The scientist formerly known as ???
Lines: 42
Message-ID: <33645689.722F@worldnet.att.net>
References: <335CEEE4.3E8A@whatshotinx.com> <5jisrj$blh@lori.zippo.com>
<335E244C.47C8@whatshotinx.com> <3360
53F7.175E@worldnet.att.net> <5jrrv4$2jm@sun.sirius.com> <336237a6.15161105@n
etnews.worldnet.att.net>
Reply-To: CaptAnd@worldnet.att.net
NNTP-Posting-Host: 207.147.0.105
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0C-WorldNet (Win16; U)
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 28 Apr 1997 06:35:02 GMT
From: mark@ntr.net (Mark Mills)
Subject: Re: Notice to antispammers
Message-Id: <33673fd1.616259520@news.ntr.net>
On 25 Apr 1997 12:39:17 GMT, Tom Christiansen <tchrist@mox.perl.com>
wrote:
>I am creating a web page that contains the real addresses of everyone
>who posts a bogus address in their mail message. I'm tired of getting
>postings I can't reply to, and I don't see why we should suffer just
>because you can't keep the spammers off your back. Write your congressman
>or something. Meanwhile, all bogus email address will be tracked down,
>and the real addresses will be added to the "Please do not spam these
>people" page.
>
>--tom
My first thought on this was 'Woo Hoo, Go Tom!'
My second thought was to set ccing to off by default (If they want an
answer let'm wade through the USENET jungle like the rest of us do.)
My third thought was that you should rig your mail filter to filter
bounces.
My fourth thought is a quote from 'Real Genius' "There are a lot of
decaffeinated brands on the market that taste just as good as the real
thing." :>
And *Finally* to quote you from another message...
> If I had three days free, I could fix it all. But I don't, and I'm not
> going to. I cannot begin to have the time in my life right now to do any
> web maintenance. In the next 6-8 weeks, I have publisher's deadlines
> for one existing book to update, another one to write from scratch,
> plus three books to tech-edit, and to top it off I have a bogus 7-figure
> nuisance lawsuit to try to get dismissed.
> Where do you propose I steal time from that has less importance than
> fixing links?
Do your real work, don't waste your time suffering fools. (Or even
making sure they get their fair share :> ) If they won't use a real
address, they don't want mail. Maybe you should not respond to them
at all, mail or usenet or even web. Of course, if you decide to lean
more toward thought one than thoughts three and five, I promise to
visit the page once in a while and laugh out loud about it.
[Hopper, Dennis]: There's mines over there, there's mines over
there, and watch out those goddam monkeys bite, I'll tell ya.
==Apocalypse Now==
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 28 Apr 1997 06:51:56 GMT
From: tcyang@netcom.com (Tung-chiang Yang)
Subject: Re: Notice to antispammers
Message-Id: <tcyangE9C5qK.B3L@netcom.com>
Followup-To: reset to "news.admin.net-abuse.policy". Note, NANAP is
moderated and it does not allow crossposting.
Similar topics have been raised in "news.admin.net-abuse.policy" just
months ago (whether it was good or bad for using an altered address).
I suggest we start talking about how we can use perl to achieve this
goal in "comp.lang.perl.misc" (after all, we often read posts "This is a
CGI question not a perl one" in this newsgroup). Why not doing the same
thing for this thread and move it to "news.admin.net-abuse.policy" or
"news.admin.net-abuse.misc", saying "This is an NANA issue not a perl one"?
One other thing. At times when some newbies post a question about Perl,
we will use Dejanews to say "with Dejanews and "Xxxxx" as the keyword,
I got 163 hits". If you guys and gals want to switch this discussion to
"news.admin.net-abuse.xxxx", you can first use Dejanews to see what people
have said.
P.S. Due to the worsening cases for excessive crosspostings in
"soc.culture.taiwan", I am considering drafting an RFD for
creating "soc.culture.taiwan.moderated", with the moderation rule that
all posters should use a valid address, but they can choose to
alter their addresses so the robomoderator could retrieve their
addresses according to a certain rule, say,
s|\.(.*remove_this_part_to_reply.*)\.|\.|gi;
and it will be appreciated if you can contribute some thinkings
and share them with me :)
--
Tung-chiang Yang tcyang@netcom.com
soc.culture.taiwan, soc.culture.china (by SCC FAQ Team) FAQ's:
http://www.clever.net/tcyang/Taiwan_faq.shtml, China_faq.shtml
------------------------------
Date: 28 Apr 1997 01:18:43 -0500
From: wilson@cs.utexas.edu (Paul Wilson)
Subject: Re: Object IDs are good ( was: Object IDs are bad )
Message-Id: <5k1fg3$fl3@roar.cs.utexas.edu>
In article <izhggvrukk.fsf@mocha.CS.Princeton.EDU>,
Matthias Blume <blume@mocha.cs.princeton.edu> wrote:
>In article <33607944.3852@ws6a17.gud.siemens.co.at> "Istvan.Simon" <simo@ws6a17.gud.siemens.co.at> writes:
>
> Even if two things LOOK the same then they are not the same. If they
> were the same you could never make a copy from anything. If this is
> true in reality then there is no reason to be untrue in programming
> languages.
>
>Several misconceptions:
>
> - There are things in the "real" world that don't have an "identity".
> Numbers are one example, and we generally don't expect to be able
> to distinguish between _this_ 1 and _that_ 1. Another example is the
> electron (or other thingies that particle physicists might be interested
> in).
Hmmm... I dunno about electrons, and I'm not sure it's relevant,
but I'd say that for most purposes 1 *does* have an identity. It's
1, you know, the number 1. The reason why you can't copy the number
1 and distinguish between the copies is that it makes no sense
mathematically. But that doesn't mean there isn't a single,
distinguished conceptual object 1.
If Lisp and Scheme had completely wonderful type systems, you would
be able to ensure that 1 is always eq? to 1. The reason why you
can't is just an efficiency hack---you don't want to have to have
a hash table of all numeric values to maintain object identity,
the way you do with symbols. It'd just be too slow. That's
why Scheme has the predicate eqv? and CL has an equivalent
predicate. (eql? ? I forget.) These predicates smoothover
the fact that an implementation is allowed to make multiple
copies of a numeric value, and make it appear that multiple
copies are the same value.
I'm not saying that the default, language-supported notion of
object identity is always the right one for your purposes, but
it often is for mine. I'd say ML and Scheme both made reasonable
choices on this. It's nice to have both, whichever is the default.
> - Things that _actually_ look the same in each and every
> respect_are_ the same.
No. This is bad philosopy. Things that are indistinguishable
given a certain subjective point of view may become distinguishable
when you learn more about them.
(For example, I once learned that I'd been corresponding with two
different people named David Chapman. Likewise, things that are
indistingishable at one time may later become distinguishable,
as when it was realized that the morning star and the evening
star were the same object.)
>Things that we can distinguish between
> do _not_ look the same (by definition -- this is what we mean by
> being able to distinguish).
I think this is simplistic. I may be able to distinguish between
two identical twins based on their social security numbers, and
that may be my only means of knowing they're two separate people,
at some point in time. Similar things come up in programming
tasks.
> - Even if, for a moment, we assume that all "real world" things have an
> inherent identity (the electron is a nice counterexample), then
> it is _still_ a bad idea to extrapolate from this and make every
> value in a programming language the same. Abstract things (like
> numbers, functions, sets) do _not_ have an identity.
I don't think "counterexamples" are the right thing to work from
here. I wouldn't deny that often the language-supported notion of
object identity is often the wrong one for representing conceptual
object identity. But it is often useful, even if you can always
hack up something to do the job in a language without object
identity.
> - From a denotational point of view object identity doesn't matter
> for immutable things.
It depends on the semantics you need. For example, if I'm representing
two individuals who are parents of a third individual, and I don't
really know anything else about them, I do not want to make the mistake
of thinking that they're the same person---one may be the father,
and the other the mother, so that they're entirely different
individuals.
Similar things come up all the time internally to programs, typically
when you come up with an abstraction.
> - Exactly _because_ there is no notion of identity, and because
> things that look the same _are_ the same, it is possible for the
> compiler to make copies of things (or represent them differently
> at different times during execution). This is of great value for
> optimizing compilers.
I think this has much more to do with immutability than with object
identity (or the lack of it).
> You always have a memory address even you don't want to have one.
> This address will identify your object even if you don't want it.
>
>See, here is the mistake.
I think the issue here is not so much that you have an object identity
when you don't want one, but that you've got to know whether you want
one, for the semantics you're imposing on your data structures.
If an eq? (object identity) test isn't want you want, _don't_use_it_.
Cobble up your own predicates, as you'd do in a language without
object identity. (Either way, don't confuse a memory address with
a language-level pointer. They're not the same idea at all, even
though there's often a convenient mapping that the language implementation
*may* choose to do.)
>If you don't have the concept of identity,
>then the compiler can choose to duplicate things when it needs to, it
>can keep things in registers instead of bundling them up and allocate
>them on the heap,
Again, I think this is more of a point about immutability rather
than object identity. You can have both in one language.
> it can use a hash-consing GC that identifies
>lookalikes the programmer didn't think of and represent them by the
>same "pointer" internally, and so on. Once you do any of this, you
>don't have _one_ pointer that identifies your value -- there might be
>two, or ten, or none at all.
I think we have a high-level vs. low-level thing going on here.
If I want to efficiently implement exactly the memoization and
hash-consing I want for my application, I'd like to have a language
with pointers so that I can do it very efficiently. Then I can
proceed to program with those pieces I built, construing object
identity or the lack of it any way that makes sense. Usually I
don't want a language that tells me there's no such thing as object
identity. I can hack around it, but why bother?
BTW, I'm not at all convinced that a language-level pointer abstraction
is at all expensive to implement. If I was, I might lean more toward
forcing the programmer to cobble one up as necessary.
>--
>-Matthias
--
| Paul R. Wilson, Comp. Sci. Dept., U of Texas @ Austin (wilson@cs.utexas.edu)
| Papers on memory allocators, garbage collection, memory hierarchies,
| persistence and Scheme interpreters and compilers available via ftp from
| ftp.cs.utexas.edu, in pub/garbage (or http://www.cs.utexas.edu/users/wilson/)
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 28 Apr 1997 17:06:32 +1000
From: Thomas Beale <thomas_beale@invest.amp.com.au>
Subject: Re: Object IDs are good ( was: Object IDs are bad )
Message-Id: <33644C78.607D@invest.amp.com.au>
Paul Wilson wrote:
>
> In article <izhggvrukk.fsf@mocha.CS.Princeton.EDU>,
> Matthias Blume <blume@mocha.cs.princeton.edu> wrote:
> >In article <33607944.3852@ws6a17.gud.siemens.co.at> "Istvan.Simon" <simo@ws6a17.gud.siemens.co.at> writes:
> > - Even if, for a moment, we assume that all "real world" things have an
> > inherent identity (the electron is a nice counterexample), then
> > it is _still_ a bad idea to extrapolate from this and make every
> > value in a programming language the same. Abstract things (like
> > numbers, functions, sets) do _not_ have an identity.
My 5c worth: I suggest you are confusing an implicit idea of identity
for abstract objects (in a pure maths/logic sense) with the need to have
identity for pieces of information in a computational information
system.
They are not the same problem.
In an information system, you potentially want to be able to
distinguish any object spatially (i.e. in the value-space) and
temporally,
except those objects which are embedded unambiguously into a parent
object.
This happens to include objects of "simple" types such as Integers
etc in many PLs, but if it didn't, you might want identification for
them as well, depending on the context of usage.
It is the context (i.e. what the information model and software is
about)
which will determine the meaning of two objects conincidentally having
the
same value at some point in time: perhaps they are the same object -
e.g.
if two objects representing the evaluation result of an equation in an
equation-solving system, it seems reasonable that they be treated as the
same object. But two string objects conincidentally having the same
value
such as "John Smith" is most likely to be .... coincidental.
- thomas beale
------------------------------
Date: 28 Apr 1997 02:20:15 -0500
From: wilson@cs.utexas.edu (Paul Wilson)
Subject: Re: Object IDs are good ( was: Object IDs are bad )
Message-Id: <5k1j3f$fp3@roar.cs.utexas.edu>
In article <E9AxB1.7nA@ecf.toronto.edu>,
Patrick Doyle <doylep@ecf.toronto.edu> wrote:
>
>I think if a language has the concept of mutability, then it should also
>have the concept of object identity because both the cases presented in
>the previous paragraph are very useful in different curcumstances.
>
>Of course if a language has no mutability, then object identity is
>unnecessary.
I'm not sure that even the latter is right. It seems to me that it
can be reasonable to use object identity to represent conceptual-level
identities, even in purely functional programs.
This isn't to say that FP langauge designers are unreasonable when
they make no-object-ID's the default in pure functional languages. It
just doesn't seem like a necessary connection. If you want to
encode the fact that two conceptual entities are known to be the
same entity, you can ensure that the corresponding object identities
are the same. (Like the use of symbols in Scheme, which are
different from Lisp symbols in that they have no state whatesoever.
Still, the fact that they're unique is what makes them really useful
and different from strings.) Conversely, if you want to represent
the fact that two conceptual objects are not known to be the same object,
you can use different language-level objects to encode that.
--
| Paul R. Wilson, Comp. Sci. Dept., U of Texas @ Austin (wilson@cs.utexas.edu)
| Papers on memory allocators, garbage collection, memory hierarchies,
| persistence and Scheme interpreters and compilers available via ftp from
| ftp.cs.utexas.edu, in pub/garbage (or http://www.cs.utexas.edu/users/wilson/)
------------------------------
Date: 28 Apr 1997 12:22:15 +0200
From: Lennart Augustsson <augustss@cs.chalmers.se>
Subject: Re: Object IDs are good ( was: Object IDs are bad )
Message-Id: <pog1wbcuqw.fsf@dogbert.cs.chalmers.se>
wilson@cs.utexas.edu (Paul Wilson) writes:
> Matthias Blume <blume@mocha.cs.princeton.edu> wrote:
> > - Things that _actually_ look the same in each and every
> > respect_are_ the same.
>
> No. This is bad philosopy. Things that are indistinguishable
> given a certain subjective point of view may become distinguishable
> when you learn more about them.
Do you have a problem with reading? :-)
Matthias Blume wrote "in each and every respect"; how can something
look the same "in each and every respect" and then be "distinguishable
when you learn more about them"? If objects can be distinguished when
you learn more about them then they were not equal in each and every
respect.
--
-- Lennart Augustsson
[This signature is intentionally left blank.]
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 28 Apr 1997 10:02:30 -0700
From: Hans Suijkerbuijk <Hans.Suijkerbuijk@SD.BE>
Subject: ODBC driver for Oracle 7.3 on NT4.0
Message-Id: <3364D826.8DD@SD.BE>
I am trying to make an ODBC-connection with an Oracle 7.3 database.
I run my scripts on an NT 4.0 server and I use the following command :
$db = new Win32::ODBC("DSN=<data source name>;UID=<user
id>;PWD=<password>");
Yet I don't get to make connection with my database.
I've tryed with following ODBC-drivers :
- INTERSOLV 3.00 32-bit Oracle7 (IVOR711.DLL (01/22/97))
- ORACLE 7.3 version 1.15.03.01 (SQO32_73.DLL (06/18/96))
Oracle 7.3 client is installed on the NT4.0 server. With this
installation came a tool to test ODBC-connections. Using this tool I 've
tryed to reach my database with the 2 drivers and it worked only with
the INTERSOLV-driver.
When I try to make connection through my script, it doesn't work with
neither of them.
Maybe I use the wrong syntax or maybe I use the wrong ODBC-driver or
maybe ..
Any suggestions ?
Hans
------------------------------
Date: 28 Apr 1997 06:50:54 GMT
From: "Santiago Alvarez Rojo" <santiago@gambito.com>
Subject: Re: please help - cgi database access script / program for web page
Message-Id: <01bc53a0$61728860$7131a8c0@sg059pcs>
You might have a look to Jeff Rowe's book:
Building Internet Database Servers with CGI (w/CD)
(http://cscsun1.larc.nasa.gov/~beowulf/index.html)
I hope this helps.
Santiago
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Santiago Alvarez Rojo
santiago@gambito.com
http://www.gambito.com/santiago
PGP-key: http://gambito.com/santiago/pgp.txt
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Tom Phoenix <rootbeer@teleport.com> escribis en artmculo
<Pine.GSO.3.96.970426170735.5782C-100000@kelly.teleport.com>...
> On Fri, 25 Apr 1997, Richard G. Coleman wrote:
>
> > I am looking to create a web page that accesses a database (can be in
> > Access, Paradox, DBase or any other major pc format - even delimited
> > text if it must be) and displays information from it.
>
> > Can anoyne tell me the correct way to proceed.
>
> I'd encourage you to write it in Perl. Start by learning from a book like
> the Llama. With that, and a little looking at online examples,
> documentation, and sample code, you'll have it done in no time. Have fun
> with it!
>
> -- Tom Phoenix http://www.teleport.com/~rootbeer/
> rootbeer@teleport.com PGP Skribu al mi per Esperanto!
> Randal Schwartz Case: http://www.lightlink.com/fors/
>
>
------------------------------
Date: 28 Apr 1997 10:45:44 GMT
From: kevin@dvstsol.demon.co.uk (Kevin Mulholland)
Subject: popen like function in perl
Message-Id: <5k1v4o$7n1$1@despair.u-net.com>
I am looking for a popen like function to use in my perl scripts.
I need to run a command in the background and take its output an
display it in a foreground program. Is there any easy way to do this ?
It is imperitive that I see the output 'as it happens' not just look at
it after the background program has finished running.
I have looked at the local CPAN site and can't see anything relevant
in there.
thanks
kpm.
--
Read the manual - hah - software engineers don't read manuals.
Ah so THAT explains windows95
-----------------------------------------------------------------
homepages http://www.dvstsol.demon.co.uk/kevin
------------------------------
Date: 28 Apr 1997 04:08:57 GMT
From: dmi@deltanet.com (Chris Cole)
Subject: Re: Question: nested comment '('...')' removal?
Message-Id: <5k17sp$ik6$1@news07.deltanet.com>
In article <3360BE50.41C67EA6@fir.fbc.com>, Ying Chen <yingchen@fir.fbc.com> wrote:
>The question is.. if you know all parenthesis are matched and
>if you don't have to care about the contents within the
>parenthesis (because the contents are comment in this
>case) - but because comment can be nested and escaped... like:
> (junk (\(comment\) to junk (is junk ))) important (again junk)
>is it still possible to write a regexp to just remove the comments?
It's no problem to match unquoted parenthesis in Perl
>(oh yeah.. I am still using Perl 4 ^_^;)
Even in Perl4, it's still possible:
$_ = "(junk1(nested \\(junk)) Something\\)Important(junk3)";
@$=(eval
{local($re);($re=$_)=~s/(\\).|(\()|(\))|[^()]/$1$1$2[\\S\\s]$3/g;/$re/},
$@!~/unmatched/);
#with the comments matched, you could then remove the first one with:
if( $$[@$-1] ){
($re=$$[0])=~s/(\W)/\\$1/g;
s/$re//;
}
#but if you just want to remove all comments
#it may be easier to do it from the inside out:
1 while( s/(\\.)|\((\\.|[^()])*\)/$1/g > m/(\\.)/g );
#(Friedl could tell you how to optimize that, but I wanted to keep it simple)
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 23 Apr 1997 16:16:43 -0700
From: Pola Gupta <pola.gupta@uni.edu>
Subject: Re: Your opinions about software piracy
Message-Id: <335E985B.396D@uni.edu>
To all comp.lang.perl.misc users:
Re: Research study on software piracy
We are conducting a study to investigate people's
attitudes towards software piracy. In order to accomplish
this research project, we have designed a web-based survey.
We would appreciate your assistance and cooperation in
completing this survey. It should not take more than ten
minutes to complete this survey. The survey can be accessed
by any web browser at the following location:
http://www.cs.uni.edu/~pola/survey/survey.cgi
Thank you in advance.
Dr. P. Gupta & Bart Pola
University of Northern Iowa
United States of America
------------------------------
Date: 8 Mar 97 21:33:47 GMT (Last modified)
From: Perl-Request@ruby.oce.orst.edu (Perl-Users-Digest Admin)
Subject: Digest Administrivia (Last modified: 8 Mar 97)
Message-Id: <null>
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------------------------------
End of Perl-Users Digest V8 Issue 384
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