[6674] in Perl-Users-Digest
Perl-Users Digest, Issue: 298 Volume: 8
daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (Perl-Users Digest)
Mon Apr 14 14:17:17 1997
Date: Mon, 14 Apr 97 11:00:38 -0700
From: Perl-Users Digest <Perl-Users-Request@ruby.OCE.ORST.EDU>
To: Perl-Users@ruby.OCE.ORST.EDU (Perl-Users Digest)
Perl-Users Digest Mon, 14 Apr 1997 Volume: 8 Number: 298
Today's topics:
Re: "Dummies" book any good? (Jeffrey Friedl)
"rename" PLEASE HELP!!! (Buzz)
Re: Advice/suggestions: Perl under DOS (Petr Prikryl)
Any experiences with Shroudit & PERL 5 for NT? <johnk@krypton.mankato.msus.edu>
Re: Calling sendmail on a NT Machine ? (Craig S. Riter)
CGI : How to download exe file using Perl ? <datatech@netvision.net.il>
Conference on Domain-Specific Languages (DSL) - Call fo (Jackson Dodd)
Connecting to SQL Server <sloscialo@chubb.com>
Formating printouts <coop5b30@nortel.ca>
Re: Grabbing links from html pages? (Eric D. Friedman)
How to set the time? (Kevin Posen)
Installing Perl5.003 <sankar@hscbklyn.edu>
Re: Is there a problem with rindex in 5.003? (Mike Brudenell)
Is this OLE perl script possible?? <mike.dudziak@stoner.com>
Re: Kudos to Tom Christiansen and problems with OO (Will Morse)
Re: Newbie Question: regexp email address.. <usenet-tag@qz.little-neck.ny.us>
OLE <sschleif@sedona.ch.intel.com>
on the absence of constant objects (Stijn van Dongen)
Re: Ousterhout and Tcl lost the plot with latest paper (Alaric B. Williams)
Re: PERL 5.0 on Windows 95... (Petr Prikryl)
Re: Perl for Windows 3.11 (16 bits) (Petr Prikryl)
Re: Perl on a PC (Petr Prikryl)
Re: Perl-Books. <seay@absyss.fr>
Re: Perl-Books. <seay@absyss.fr>
Re: Perl-Books. (Zach Kessin)
Re: pm2html (Craig S. Riter)
Digest Administrivia (Last modified: 8 Mar 97) (Perl-Users-Digest Admin)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: 14 Apr 1997 08:55:30 -0700
From: jfriedl@yahoo.com (Jeffrey Friedl)
To: duchar96@sparky.cs.nyu.edu (Robert Ducharme)
Subject: Re: "Dummies" book any good?
Message-Id: <1vencdzjil.fsf@ventrue.yahoo.com>
Robert Ducharme <duchar96@sparky.cs.nyu.edu> wrote:
|> Has anyone had a chance to take a look at the recently released "Perl
|> for Dummies" book?
Based upon talks I had with the author (while he was writing it), I held
very little hope that it would be any good. He said he wouldn't bother
actually testing it on a dummy to see if his approach worked or not.
Unexcusable. Perl by Dummies, I thought.
Anyway, I had a chance to flip through it for a few moments yesterday.
Didn't take long to find a chin-dropping error -- something along the lines
of
``if your regular expression can match an empty string, the variable
$_ is used as the regular expression. So, if you use variables to make
a regular expression, make sure you know what's in them''
To make up something so rediculous as that requires utter cluelessness
about Perl. But at least his recommendation is reasonable :-)
On the other hand, I found the typesetting to be very readable. A complete
novice should have no troubles understanding what is and isn't code. The
typesetting is inviting.
|> Is it any good?
It depends on how you measure good. (Your next question gives an idea of this)
|> I'm looking for something to
|> recommend to non-programmer complete beginners.
It could well be that I happend to run across the one major error in the
book (I have as bad in my own book), or maybe it's riddled with them. The
thing is, if someone is really a non-programmer, I can't think of any other
book that might be useful. It's my understanding that _Learning Perl_ is for
Unix programmers (that don't yet know Perl).
One doesn't need to know much about anything (including Perl) to teach the
level of Perl that I saw in _Perl5 for Dummies_. On the other hand, one
does need to know what and how to write to the intended audience. I didn't
look closly at the text as it's intended to be used, so have no idea one
way or the other if the author did it well. I know he said he wouldn't even
bother testing it, so have a hard time imagining he's done a very good job
right off the bat, but stranger things have happened.
Jeffrey
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Jeffrey Friedl <jfriedl@ora.com>
O'Reilly & Associates' _Mastering Regular Expressions_
http://enterprise.ic.gc.ca/~jfriedl/regex/
------------------------------
Date: 14 Apr 1997 14:48:30 GMT
From: shommel@elk.uvm.edu (Buzz)
Subject: "rename" PLEASE HELP!!!
Message-Id: <5itg3u$adj@swen.emba.uvm.edu>
Hello I have a problem that should be easy to solve.
I am trying to use rename within a cgi script to rename
a file in one directory to a diff. directory.
The two files are chmod a+rwx.
I declared two variables with complete pathnames to the files:
$var1 = ("path/to/file1");
$var2 = ("path/to/file2");
then within the cgi script put:
rename ("$var1", "$var2");
yet it does nothing? How come? How can I make it work?
Email me at : shommel@zoo.uvm.edu
thanks
- Scott
------------------------------
Date: 14 Apr 1997 14:20:48 GMT
From: prikryl@dcse.fee.vutbr.cz (Petr Prikryl)
Subject: Re: Advice/suggestions: Perl under DOS
Message-Id: <5iteg0$3ng$3@boco.fee.vutbr.cz>
Dean Pentcheff (dean@tbone.biol.sc.edu) wrote:
>[Note: since this is not a query related to Perl modules, I've
>redirected this reply to c.l.p.m]
>Rodney Broom <broomer2@primenet.com> writes:
>> OK, I have this little 386 running DOS 6.22, no windows. I would like to
>> use it a developement platform for Perl. I have a P120 Win95 machine
>> also and I have had no problems making Perl work there. I have seen
>> people talking about using the OS2 version, but, I'm having troubles
>> determining what files to take from these FTP sites. Also, I am looking
>> for the binaries.
>Appended is a posting I made a few months ago. I suspect it's still
>largely accurate, but some details may have changed with time.
>But... it should give you the necessary details to do what you'd like.
[...]
I have used Dean Pentcheff recipe, but finally I've created my own
step-by-step description (more precise, I believe) for the instalation.
Have a look at
http://www.fee.vutbr.cz/~prikryl/tools.html
or
http://www.fee.vutbr.cz/~prikryl/ilya5004.txt
Petr
--
Petr Prikryl (prikryl@dcse.fee.vutbr.cz) http://www.fee.vutbr.cz/~prikryl/
TU of Brno, Dept. of Computer Sci. & Engineering; tel. +420-(0)5-7275 218
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 14 Apr 1997 10:02:45 -0700
From: "John A. Kaliski" <johnk@krypton.mankato.msus.edu>
Subject: Any experiences with Shroudit & PERL 5 for NT?
Message-Id: <33526335.3B36@krypton.mankato.msus.edu>
Hello everyone,
Recently I downloaded a program called ShroudIt off the www which is
supposed to be able to obfuscate PERL. I tried running it against
a couple of small, simple PERL scripts and it seemed to introduce
several
errors (e.g. it forgot to put the ";" at the end of statements). I am
using ActiveWare's Win32 PERL 5.
Does any out there have any experience getting ShroudIt or any other
obfuscating system to work on PERL 5?
A thousand thanks in advance.
John Kaliski
johnk@krypton.mankato.msus.edu
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 14 Apr 1997 16:37:10 GMT
From: criter@lucent.com (Craig S. Riter)
Subject: Re: Calling sendmail on a NT Machine ?
Message-Id: <335101cd.92584204@nntp.cb.lucent.com>
Post your script and maybe there is a problem with that.
Craig@Riter.com
On Thu, 10 Apr 1997 23:49:52 -0400, Ken Hodges <ken@acme-brain.com>
wrote:
>
>I keep getting the respomnse:
>could not exectute "C:\sendmail\sendmail"
>
>
>I'm using metainfo's "sendmail" for windows NT.
>
>What am I missing ?
>Thanks,
>Ken
>--
>
> http://www.acme-brain.com
>**********************************************************************
______________________________________________________________________
Craig S. Riter criter@riter.com criter@povpartners.com
www.riter.com PGP key available upon request
It infuriates me to be wrong when I know I'm right. -Moliere
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 14 Apr 1997 19:24:04 -0700
From: Doron Raz <datatech@netvision.net.il>
Subject: CGI : How to download exe file using Perl ?
Message-Id: <3352E6C4.B7C@netvision.net.il>
On our home page we would like to place a button that will create a file
and right after the file was created will download it to the user
computer .
Is there anybody how knows how to preform this using perl as CGI script?
Thanks,
Doron
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 14 Apr 1997 16:29:42 GMT
From: jackson@usenix.org (Jackson Dodd)
Subject: Conference on Domain-Specific Languages (DSL) - Call for Papersj
Message-Id: <E8Mz5J.IxH@usenix.org>
Keywords: USENIX, conference, languages
Announcement and Call for Papers
Conference on Domain-Specific Languages
October 15-17, 1997
Red Lion Resort--Santa Barbara, California
==========================================
Sponsored by the USENIX Association
In cooperation with ACM SIGPLAN (pending)
IMPORTANT DATES
===============
Papers due : June 13, 1997
Author notification: July 10, 1997
Camera-ready final papers due: September 2, 1997
PROGRAM COMMITTEE
==================
Chris Ramming - AT&T Labs (Program Chair)
Thomas J. Ball - Lucent Bell Laboratories
Gerard Berry- CMA, Ecole des Mines de Paris
Jon Bentley - Lucent Bell Laboratories
Peter Buneman - University of Pennsylvania
Luca Cardelli - Digital Equipment Corporation
Steve Johnson - Transmeta Corporation
Takayuki Dan Kimura - Washington University
Todd Knoblock - Microsoft Research
David Ladd - Spyglass (Speaker Chair)
Adam Porter - University of Maryland
Jan Prins - University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill
INTRODUCTION
============
Language is central to the discipline of software engineering.
Programmers use a variety of languages in their daily work, and
new languages appear frequently. This proliferation is not
gratuitous: each new language offers specific solutions to genuine
software problems. However, not all languages address the problem
of general-purpose computing: domain-specific languages (DSLs)
are explicitly designed to cover only a narrow class of problems,
while offering compelling advantages within that class. This
conference is dedicated to the discussion of the unique aspects of DSL
design, DSL implementation, and the use of DSLs in software
engineering.
Domain-specific languages give rise to a number of questions. What
are the design principles for the creation of new DSLs? How can the
process of DSL design be codified and structured? What roles can
domain-specific languages play in software engineering? How does
the use of domain-specific languages affect software engineering
process? What are the tools, environments, and techniques needed to
support the use of domain-specific languages? What are the concrete
technical advantages and disadvantages of domain-specific
languages? What are the economic costs and benefits of domain-
specific languages? These and other questions are the focus of this
conference on domain-specific languages.
The conference seeks to advance the practice of DSL design, DSL
implementation, and software engineering generally by:
-- eliciting examples of successful domain-specific languages
-- highlighting the spectrum of benefits which domain-specific
languages can provide
-- discovering design principles and methodologies for creating DSLs
-- eliciting design techniques and tools for working with domain-
specific languages throughout the software engineering lifecycle
-- providing a framework within which language designers from
different domains can easily communicate
-- establishing the practical value of domain-specific languages
through the publication of empirical data concerning productivity,
quality, and maintainability
-- creating a community that will continue to study and refine the
practice of software engineering through domain-specific languages
CONFERENCE TOPICS
=================
The technical sessions will include refereed papers, invited talks,
and Birds-of-a-Feather (BoF) sessions. We seek papers that draw on
experience in a wide variety of areas, including but not limited to
the following topics.
- formal methods
- software design and architecture
- declarative languages
- software engineering
- software process
- database languages
- program analysis and automated transformation
- computer architecture
- design process and languages
- visual languages and environments
- hardware specification languages
- parallel computing languages
- type theory
- distributed computing languages
- testing
- prototyping
PAPER CRITERIA
==============
Papers will be judged on the depth of their insight and the extent
to which they translate specific experience into general lessons for
domain-specific language designers, and implementers, and
software engineers.
Papers can range from the practical to the theoretical; papers should
refer to actual languages, tools, and techniques with pointers to full
definitions and implementations where possible. Empirical data on
results should be included where possible.
HOW TO SUBMIT A PAPER
=====================
Technical paper submissions must be received by June 13, 1997. Full
papers are requested and should be 10 to 15 pages (around
5,000-6,000 words).
All submissions will be judged on originality, relevance, and
correctness. Each accepted submission will be assigned a member of
the program committee to shepherd preparation of the final paper.
The assigned member will act as a conduit for feedback from the
committee to the authors. Camera-ready final papers are due
September 2, 1997.
Each submission must include a cover letter stating the paper title
and authors along with the name of the person who will act as the
contact to the program committee. Please include a surface mail
address, daytime and evening phone number, an email address, and
fax number for the contact person.
If you would like to receive detailed guidelines for submission send
email to dslauthors@usenix.org. An electronic version of this
document is available at http://www.usenix.org/dsl.
The DSL conference, like most conferences and journals, requires
that papers not be submitted simultaneously to another conference
or publication and that submitted papers not be previously or
subsequently published elsewhere. Papers accompanied by "non-
disclosure agreement" forms are not acceptable and will be returned
to the author(s) unread. All submissions are held in the highest
confidentiality prior to publication in the Proceedings, both as a
matter of policy and in accord with the U.S. Copyright Act of 1976.
Please send one copy of a full paper to the program committee via
one of the following methods. All submissions will be acknowledged.
Preferred Method: email (Postscript) to: dslpapers@usenix.org
Alternate Method: postal delivery to:
DSL Conference
c/o Chris Ramming
USENIX Association
2560 Ninth Street, Suite 215
Berkeley CA 94710
Phone: 510.528.8649
INVITED TALKS
=============
There will be several invited talks at the conference. If you have
suggestions for possible speakers, please send them to the speaker
chair, David Ladd (dladd@spyglass.com).
REGISTRATION MATERIALS
======================
Materials containing all details of the technical and tutorial
programs, registration fees and forms, and hotel information will be
available beginning in August, 1997. If you wish to receive the
registration materials, please contact USENIX at:
USENIX Conference Office
22672 Lambert Street, Suite 613
Lake Forest, CA USA 92630
Phone: 714-588-8649;
Fax: 714-588-9706
------------------------------
Date: 14 Apr 1997 15:35:52 GMT
From: "Sergio Loscialo" <sloscialo@chubb.com>
Subject: Connecting to SQL Server
Message-Id: <01bc48e9$16af5360$ae1012ac@sloscialo.chubb.com>
Is there a way to access a Microsoft SQL Server database from
within Perl? I have a need to hit a SQL Server database from
a Perl script running on a Unix box (that leaves out the ODBC
option, doesn't it?).
--
Sergio Loscialo
Chubb Computer Services
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 14 Apr 1997 11:47:28 -0400
From: Paulo Bellem <coop5b30@nortel.ca>
Subject: Formating printouts
Message-Id: <33525190.1222@nortel.ca>
Sorry if this is a repeat post.
I have a script(Perl) which prints out information on people into table
formats on the web. The problem exists when I want ot print these
tables. The width of the tables become to large and the printoff is
cutoff. How can I make it so that the table fits onto the entire page.
What I would really like is that the beginning of each table begin on a
new page but for now I just want the table to fit nicely width-ways on
the page. Can anyone help me with this.
Also is it possible to print/format the table information inot a Adobe
document. This way the user would only have to hit a button and the
Adobe document would appear ready to be printed. The Document should
still follow the format mentioned above. Thank you.
Paulo Bellem
Coop5b30@nortel.ca
------------------------------
Date: 14 Apr 1997 14:55:44 GMT
From: friedman@medusa.acs.uci.edu (Eric D. Friedman)
Subject: Re: Grabbing links from html pages?
Message-Id: <5itghg$a6p@news.service.uci.edu>
[mailed,posted]
(Wow, somebody from HUD: by helping you am I going to become the target
of >yet another< federal investigation? :-) )
In article <860781108.10211@dejanews.com>, <David_D._Jones@hud.gov> wrote:
>I want to be get every link from an HTML document. Actually what I really
>want is everything between the <A HREF> and </A> tags. I can get this to
>work if there is only one link per line, but I'm not sure how to do this
>if there is more than one link per line or it the link spans more then
>one line. Any suggestions?
This one will get the URLs. You should be able to modify it to get the
link text. I'm sure someone out there can do it in a one-liner though.
You might consider picking up Jeffrey Friedl's book on regular
expressions. On second thought, don't. It's too close to April 15th
for me to feel comfortable advising a government employee to spend tax
dollars, no matter how worthy the cause. :-)
#!/dcs/bin/perl5 -w
use strict;
$/ = undef;
my $file = <>;
my @links = ($file =~ m,<\s*a\s+href\s*=\s*"?(.*?)"?\s*>,gsi);
print join "\n",@links;
Hope this helps,
Eric
--
Eric D. Friedman
friedman@uci.edu
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 14 Apr 1997 16:29:31 GMT
From: posenj@lancet.co.za (Kevin Posen)
Subject: How to set the time?
Message-Id: <33535b32.4019167@news.saix.net>
Hi.
I know how to get the time with localtime() and gmttime(), but how do I set
the current time of the computer?
Thanks,
Kevin Posen
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 14 Apr 1997 11:33:02 -0400
From: Sankar Mukhopadhyay <sankar@hscbklyn.edu>
Subject: Installing Perl5.003
Message-Id: <Pine.SOL.3.93.970414112747.13948A-100000@bmec.hscbklyn.edu>
Hi,
I am having problems installing Perl5.003. This is a new
installation.
I type rm -f config.sh
then sh Configure
It does a lot of staff. itake defaults. Then at the tail end, I get the
following message:
Checking for GNU cc in disguise and/or its version number...
*** WHOA THERE!!! ***
Your C compiler "cc" doesn't seem to be working!
You'd better start hunting for one and let me know about it.
#
I am using Solaris 2.4 and I downloaded gcc-2.5.8-bin.tar.gz .
I gunzipped it etc.
One thing though:
gcc files are in /usr/local/bin/usr/local/bin. That's because I
downloaded the file in /usr/local/bin and when I extracted it it made
all those directories.
Any help will be appreciated.
Thanks,
Sankar
*************************************** *********************
Sankar Mukhopadhyay
Library Systems
SUNY Health Science Center @ Brooklyn sankar@hscbklyn.edu
<<< The reverse side has also a reverse side.>>> Japanese Proverb
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 14 Apr 1997 17:06:01 +0100
From: pmb1@york.ac.uk (Mike Brudenell)
Subject: Re: Is there a problem with rindex in 5.003?
Message-Id: <pmb1-ya023680001404971706010001@news.york.ac.uk>
In article <334BE4D3.2FE3@jaycor.com>, Scott Brehm <sbrehm@jaycor.com> wrote:
> I am working on a routine that needs to parse a string, and the
> appropriate way to do it is with rindex. But I keep getting -1 (not
> found) for characters that are in the string, i.e:
>
> abc-1.2-3.i386.rpm (yes, it is a RedHat linux package name)
> or
> abc-new-2.3.1-6.i386.rpm
>
> I need to pull off the .i386.rpm from the end, but in attempting to use
> rindex($name,".",2) I get -1 as the result. Alpha characters don't work
> either.
>
> I am running perl 5.003 on RedHat 4.1 Linux. I have the llama book, but
> the section on rindex mentions nothing peculiar.
>
> What am I doing wrong?
Ummm... Mis-reading the description of rindex() in the Perl man page?
According to the man page the three-argument form of rindex is:
rindex str, substr, position
which "Works just like index except that it returns the position od the
LAST occurrence of SUBSTR in STR." and in particular... "If POSITION is
specified, returns the last occurrence at or before that position."
Thus your example of:
rindex($name,".",2)
means "look for the last occurrence of '.' at or before the character in
the 2nd position of the string."
Thus for a $name of "abc-new-2.3.1-6.i386.rpm" it looks for the last
occurrence of '.' at or before the 'c' (position 0 is the leading 'a';
position 1 is the 'b'; position 2 is the 'c').
I think you were hoping that a position of 2 would look for the 2nd last
occurrence? Not so, I'm afraid.
Cheers,
--
Mike Brudenell <pmb1@york.ac.uk>
------------------------------------------------------------------------
The Computing Service, University of York, Heslington, York, YO1 5DD, UK
Tel: +44-1904-433811 FAX: +44-1904-433740 http://www.york.ac.uk/~pmb1/
------------------------------
Date: 14 Apr 1997 13:00:10 GMT
From: Mike Dudziak <mike.dudziak@stoner.com>
Subject: Is this OLE perl script possible??
Message-Id: <5it9oq$m6t@frontier.stoner.com>
Is it possible to write an OLE perl script that will open up the 'system'
window in the 'control panel' then have it select 'OK'????
------------------------------
Date: 14 Apr 1997 12:02:27 -0500
From: will@Starbase.NeoSoft.COM (Will Morse)
Subject: Re: Kudos to Tom Christiansen and problems with OO
Message-Id: <5itnv3$4bm@Starbase.NeoSoft.COM>
I just thought I'd mention that Tom is also an outstanding pianist.
Will
--
# Copyright 1997 Will Morse. Internet repost/archive freely permitted.
# Hardcopy newspaper, magazine, etc. quoting requires permission.
#
# Gravity, # Will Morse
# not just a good idea, # Houston, Texas
# it's the law. # will@starbase.neosoft.com
#
# These are my views and do not necessarly reflect anyone else/
------------------------------
Date: 14 Apr 1997 15:22:55 GMT
From: Eli the Bearded <usenet-tag@qz.little-neck.ny.us>
Subject: Re: Newbie Question: regexp email address..
Message-Id: <5iti4f$r47$1@news.netusa.net>
Ask Bjxrn Hansen <ask@plys.net> wrote:
>Sorry about the newbie posting .. but:
>What's the best way to get an email address from a line like:
>
>From: John Doe <jd@foo.com>
>or
>From: jd@foo.com
>or
>From: jd@foo.com (John Doe)
In each case the address is delimited by whitespace, '<' and '>', or
the end of line. Use that to grab the address.
$From =~ /From:.*[<\s]([^\@\s>]+(\@[^\@\s]+)?)([>\s]|$)/;
$address=$1;
It is legal to put @ inside the (parened comment parts), but that is
fairly rare. If you really want to deal with those esoteric cases
go get RFC822, read it, and write a full parser. You cannot write a
full comment parser in true regexps, perl regexps apparently are
powerful enough, but it is highly questionable if the loss in
readiblity and probable slow down in execution is worth it. You
would have to deal with backslash escaped @ in the username portion
(and possibly the domain portion if you are not dealling with
standard domain names), arbitrarily nested comments at any word
break, etc.
As I recall Friedl wrote an RE to do it, but even he relaxed it for
only dealling with up to 2-deep nesting.
Elijah
------
From: ((Eli @ netusa (dot) net) posts as) <usenet-tag@qz (Queasy). \
little-neck (Called 'Small Egg' in _The Great Gatsby_).ny.us>
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 14 Apr 1997 08:59:40 -0700
From: Sam <sschleif@sedona.ch.intel.com>
Subject: OLE
Message-Id: <3352546C.3C7E@sedona.ch.intel.com>
I'm trying to run MS Access using the OLE module. I've used the
examples to run Excel, but this isn't working with Access. Any ideas?
Thanks,
Sam
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 14 Apr 1997 15:16:47 GMT
From: stijnvd@cwi.nl (Stijn van Dongen)
Subject: on the absence of constant objects
Message-Id: <stijnvd.861031007@news.cwi.nl>
Recently I wrote a perl library for sorting a Russian--Dutch
dictionary. The dictionary has a couple of hundreds of thousands of lemma's,
and as expected, different information has to be generated for various kinds
of comparison (punctuation, field entry characteristics etc.). All in all it
has become a program of slightly less than 3000 (generously spaced) lines of
code, a large part of which is devoted to I/O, and a large part of which is
caused by the fact that sorting has to be done in stages of two kinds (output
is split up in segments, and sorting information is created in increasingly
narrower domains).
I took great care to do the sorting only on indices which represent the
lemma's. One reason is efficiency, but the most important reason is safety.
Now, it would have been a great relief had I been able to declare the array
in which the lemma's are stored as a constant array. No matter how careful I
construct the code, no matter my proficiency level as a programmer, it _would_
have been nice. It may grieve perl's heart that its ability to shrink, grow
and modify arrays is in this specific case is not so highly appreciated -- they
were of course bravoed in other parts of the program.
In the Ousterhout white paper thread, a copla things were said about
scripting languages and system languages, including stuff about weak/strong
typing, object oriented programming etc. What I found missing in perl,
on this occasion, was the option of making an object _constant_.
It is a diffent dimension than typing, and perhaps a dimension that is
rather more important for larger applications. Any thoughts?
Regards,
Stijn van Dongen
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 14 Apr 1997 17:13:26 GMT
From: alaric@abwillms.demon.co.uk (Alaric B. Williams)
Subject: Re: Ousterhout and Tcl lost the plot with latest paper
Message-Id: <33525c2b.1932478@news.demon.co.uk>
On 14 Apr 1997 10:44:40 +1000, Chris Bitmead
<Chris.Bitmead@alcatel.com.au> wrote:
>Don't know why you would say scheme is less powerful than c++. I would
>graph it like this...
>
> g |
> l |
> u |
> e | * * <--stk, e.g.
> i | ^
> n | |
> g | |
> | tcl
> e |
> a | c++
> s | *
> e |
> +-----------------------------
> language power ->
How do you defined "power"? I have seen two definitions in languages:
1) Low level, meaning you have the "power" to control implementation.
C fans cite this definition to me, mostly.
2) High level, meaning you can do major things with simple,
descriptive bits of code. Functional language fans cite this
definition to me, mostly!
Well, I'd suggest calling them "low level power" and "high level
power" respectively. Well, I really can't standing drawing ASCII art,
so I'll make a subjective ranking of language powers:
Low Level Power:
1) C++
2) Scheme
3) TCL
Why? Well, with Scheme, you get more control over data representation
than with TCL (choose from: number, symbol, string, list, ...), and I
doubt anyone will disagree with putting C++ at the top :-)
High Level Power:
1) ?
2) ?
3) C++
I don't know much TCL, so I can't be sure here. I mean, does TCL do
closures? I guess you can pass strings of code around, but can these
strings close over their environments... and how about CPS? Can a TCL
function/procedure/subroutine/insert correct term get hold of a string
representing the future of it's invoking computation, which it can
then execute as a string of source? I guess it's possible, but is it
done?
ABW
--
"Plug and Play support: WfEWAD will autodetect any installed
Nuclear Arsenals, Laser Satellites, Battlefield Control Networks,
Radar Installations, Fighter Squadrons, and other WfEWAD compliant
devices, including the new Macrosoft Unnatural Keyboard, with
full support for the now-famous Big Red Buttom(tm)."
(Windows for Early Warning and Defence User's manual P26)
Alaric B. Williams Internet : alaric@abwillms.demon.co.uk
<A HREF="http://www.abwillms.demon.co.uk/">Hello :-)</A>
------------------------------
Date: 14 Apr 1997 14:11:20 GMT
From: prikryl@dcse.fee.vutbr.cz (Petr Prikryl)
Subject: Re: PERL 5.0 on Windows 95...
Message-Id: <5itdu8$3ng$2@boco.fee.vutbr.cz>
Dico Reyers (dico@peionline.com) wrote:
>I have been online testing my perl scrpts on a unix system. Every
>time I want to test a script for a web page I log on upload the file
>and test it out.
>Where can I get PERL 5.0 for win95? Is it easy to install?
Try Ilya Zakharevich's port of 5.003 or (better) 5.004beta for
OS/2 which can run also in MS-DOS, Windows 3.1x, and Windows'95.
For the case you want to create the instalation for all the MS
system, you may be interested in
http://www.fee.vutbr.cz/~prikryl/tools.html
Warning: I did not try, but Ilya warns about sockets under MS -- not
implemented by the RSX/EMX which create OS/2 environment (not tested).
--
Petr Prikryl (prikryl@dcse.fee.vutbr.cz) http://www.fee.vutbr.cz/~prikryl/
TU of Brno, Dept. of Computer Sci. & Engineering; tel. +420-(0)5-7275 218
------------------------------
Date: 14 Apr 1997 14:26:17 GMT
From: prikryl@dcse.fee.vutbr.cz (Petr Prikryl)
Subject: Re: Perl for Windows 3.11 (16 bits)
Message-Id: <5iteq9$3ng$4@boco.fee.vutbr.cz>
username (username@nl.oracle.com) wrote:
>Does anybody know if Perl is ported to windows 3.11 (16 bits) and if so,
>where can I find it?
Look at http://www.fee.vutbr.cz/~prikryl/ilya5004.txt
Petr
--
Petr Prikryl (prikryl@dcse.fee.vutbr.cz) http://www.fee.vutbr.cz/~prikryl/
TU of Brno, Dept. of Computer Sci. & Engineering; tel. +420-(0)5-7275 218
------------------------------
Date: 14 Apr 1997 14:40:43 GMT
From: prikryl@dcse.fee.vutbr.cz (Petr Prikryl)
Subject: Re: Perl on a PC
Message-Id: <5itflb$3ng$6@boco.fee.vutbr.cz>
David Welton (davidw@efn.org) wrote:
>"Robert Eaton" <rufus@tesser.com> writes:
>> I am getting ready to start programming in Perl on my PC. I would like the
>> programs to work on a Unix machine as well.
>>
>> Could I possibly get some opinions on the best PC operating system and any
>> developement software for this task?
>Both linux (www.linux.org) and FreeBSD (www.freebsd.org) would be
>great for this. I personally use linux and love it. Development
>software...well.. whatever you use on a UNIX machine:-)
I agree, but if you still want to work in DOS, Windows 3.1x, or Windows 95,
you may be interested in Ilya Zakharevich's port of Perl and in
http://www.fee.vutbr.cz/~prikryl/ilya5004.txt
Petr
--
Petr Prikryl (prikryl@dcse.fee.vutbr.cz) http://www.fee.vutbr.cz/~prikryl/
TU of Brno, Dept. of Computer Sci. & Engineering; tel. +420-(0)5-7275 218
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 14 Apr 1997 18:07:16 +0100
From: Douglas Seay <seay@absyss.fr>
To: Randal Schwartz <merlyn@stonehenge.com>
Subject: Re: Perl-Books.
Message-Id: <33526444.61D@absyss.fr>
Randal Schwartz wrote:
> Perl is a powerful tool in the hand of an expert. A beginner might
> have some difficulty. Best to stay for a while with some toy
> language, like Visual Basic or TCL. :-)
Cold. That was very cold.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 14 Apr 1997 18:16:59 +0100
From: Douglas Seay <seay@absyss.fr>
To: "Eric D. Friedman" <friedman@medusa.acs.uci.edu>
Subject: Re: Perl-Books.
Message-Id: <3352668B.302C@absyss.fr>
Eric D. Friedman wrote:
>
> [mailed, posted]
>
> In article <8chghc1iuo.fsf@gadget.cscaper.com>,
> Randal Schwartz <merlyn@stonehenge.com> wrote:
>
> >As much as I'd like that to be true, that's not the case. The llama
> >does *not* teach fundamental programming concepts, such as "what is a
> >variable", "what is an array", and "why would I need a subroutine".
>
> Just out of curiosity, what book >would< you (collectively) recommend
> for this purpose?
A real introductory course in computer science.
These ideas are fundamental to all software, yet I've seen lots of code
that was written by folks who don't understand them. The horrors of
seeing 800 line methods in C++ written by non-software trained EEs or
shell scripts by MEs who had never programmed before are beyond
description.
There could be a few excellent books on this topic, I don't know. But I
doubt if reading without actually doing some programming would be
enough. Even with all the logic and rational thinking in the world,
sometime you just have to "know" what is best and there is no substitue
for experience. As someone who has had to maintain code written by
non-software folks, I think giving someone a book and letting them code
is a bad idea.
- doug
PS - I'm not saying that non-Computer Science trained people should
program. Far from it, anyone can learn to program as it is not all that
hard (IMHO). Just I get tired of people thinking that they can cross
disciplines after glancing at a book and having no real experience in
the target domain.
------------------------------
Date: 14 Apr 97 17:23:48 GMT
From: zkessin@shell1.tiac.net (Zach Kessin)
Subject: Re: Perl-Books.
Message-Id: <zkessin.861038628@shell1.tiac.net>
abigail@fnx.com (Abigail) writes:
>It makes me wonder, how suitable is Perl for teaching fundamental
>programming concepts? Is there someone out there who uses Perl
>for their first year programming course?
Personaly I would say lousy. I love perl but it does not encurage the
type of structured programing that you would want to teach to first
year students. If I was teaching 1st year students I would use Pascal
or Scheme.
Now to get a paying job I would use perl.
--Zach
>Abigail
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 14 Apr 1997 16:37:10 GMT
From: criter@lucent.com (Craig S. Riter)
Subject: Re: pm2html
Message-Id: <3352022e.92681748@nntp.cb.lucent.com>
I have pod2html.pl, will that work for you? I don't think I ever saw
a pm2html. I thought most Perl Modules were written with POD as the
documentation method.
Craig@Riter.com
On 11 Apr 1997 10:34:52 GMT, "Santiago Alvarez Rojo"
<santiago@gambito.com> wrote:
>Is there a DOS translator from Perl Modules files to html?
>
>I know it is included within the Linux distribution but do not know about
>the DOS one. I'd like to get only this program, not to install the whole
>package.
>
>TIA.
>Ps. I'd appreciate email reply
>--
>Santiago Alvarez Rojo
>santiago@gambito.com
>http://www.gambito.com/santiago
______________________________________________________________________
Craig S. Riter criter@riter.com criter@povpartners.com
www.riter.com PGP key available upon request
It infuriates me to be wrong when I know I'm right. -Moliere
------------------------------
Date: 8 Mar 97 21:33:47 GMT (Last modified)
From: Perl-Request@ruby.oce.orst.edu (Perl-Users-Digest Admin)
Subject: Digest Administrivia (Last modified: 8 Mar 97)
Message-Id: <null>
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------------------------------
End of Perl-Users Digest V8 Issue 298
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