[6556] in Perl-Users-Digest
Perl-Users Digest, Issue: 181 Volume: 8
daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (Perl-Users Digest)
Wed Mar 26 03:13:36 1997
Date: Wed, 26 Mar 97 00:00:32 -0800
From: Perl-Users Digest <Perl-Users-Request@ruby.OCE.ORST.EDU>
To: Perl-Users@ruby.OCE.ORST.EDU (Perl-Users Digest)
Perl-Users Digest Wed, 26 Mar 1997 Volume: 8 Number: 181
Today's topics:
Re: ADVICE NEEDED: timelocal() prints wrong result (VK2COT)
Re: Forward- and Backslashes as Pathname Delimiters <rootbeer@teleport.com>
Re: global my() variable used in foreach() loop loses i (Ron Newman)
Re: global my() variable used in foreach() loop loses i (Ron Newman)
Help Requested <GregR@spiritone.com>
Re: How do I ? .. rand/srand champs read this <rootbeer@teleport.com>
How do I save HTML document that's been created "on the <NOTHERE@there.com>
Re: interesting text formatting problem <eric@nettown.com>
Is there not a market for a fancy debugger? (Kevin Swope)
Re: Is there not a market for a fancy debugger? (Nathan V. Patwardhan)
Need a binary distribution on a DEC alpha wildi@ubaclu.unibas.ch
Re: Need help CGI scripting HTML forms to email <tshell@mcs.net>
Re: On-line web page editor: Changing the directory a <rootbeer@teleport.com>
Re: On-line web page editor: Changing the directory a (Abigail)
Perl & HP-UX 10.10? (Will Kessler)
Re: Perl book sugestions wanted (Will Kessler)
Re: Regular Expresion question. <rootbeer@teleport.com>
Re: Standard "Reaper" procedure doesn't work on Solaris (Kenneth Albanowski)
Sybperl 2.x static compile move question <mitchspector@sprynet.com>
Thank you perl developers!!! (John Reynolds)
Re: Unix 'Cat' equivelent <tchrist@mox.perl.com>
Re: Unix and ease of use (WAS: Who makes more ...) <tim@a-sis.com>
Re: Unix and ease of use (WAS: Who makes more ...) (Mikko Rauhala)
Visual Perl <microsys@IntNet.net>
Digest Administrivia (Last modified: 8 Mar 97) (Perl-Users-Digest Admin)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Wed, 26 Mar 1997 04:55:51 GMT
From: dusanb@syd.csa.com.au (VK2COT)
Subject: Re: ADVICE NEEDED: timelocal() prints wrong result
Message-Id: <E7MwD3.JKy@syd.csa.com.au>
Hello,
Just to summarize the timelocal() problem.
Yes, we all agreed that timelocal() expects numeric arguments. What fooled
me initially was the fact that time calculations within the SAME month were
correct regardless of type of argument for month. For example, the following two
Perl5 scripts give the same result. In the first one, month is given as "Apr",
and in the second one it is "3".
#!/opt/local/bin/perl
use Time::Local;
$AAA = timelocal(37, 53, 04, 12, Apr, 97);
$BBB = timelocal(37, 53, 22, 7, Apr, 97);
$CCC = ($AAA - $BBB) > 0 ? ($AAA - $BBB) : abs($AAA - $BBB);
$DDD = $CCC / 3600;
printf("%d - %d = %d (%s hours)\n", $AAA, $BBB, $CCC, $DDD);
exit(0);
#!/opt/local/bin/perl
use Time::Local;
$AAA = timelocal(37, 53, 04, 12, 3, 97);
$BBB = timelocal(37, 53, 22, 7, 3, 97);
$CCC = ($AAA - $BBB) > 0 ? ($AAA - $BBB) : abs($AAA - $BBB);
$DDD = $CCC / 3600;
printf("%d - %d = %d (%s hours)\n", $AAA, $BBB, $CCC, $DDD);
exit(0);
In any case, to be on the "safe" side, all numeric arguments are to be used
with timelocal().
Greetings from "down-under",
--
Dusan U. Baljevic, Senior Member TechStaff
CSC Australia, dusanb@syd.csa.com.au
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 25 Mar 1997 20:30:20 -0800
From: Tom Phoenix <rootbeer@teleport.com>
To: rtanikella@rfbd.org
Subject: Re: Forward- and Backslashes as Pathname Delimiters
Message-Id: <Pine.GSO.3.96.970325202750.10758E-100000@kelly.teleport.com>
On Tue, 25 Mar 1997 rtanikella@rfbd.org wrote:
> Thanks to everyone for the input. In the end, it was Donald's suggestion
> that got it working. The solution was:
>
> $pid = system(P_WAIT, 'sgmlbmd', 'arg1', arg2');
>
> Single quotes were necessary.
Not for those strings, they aren't. Those are the same even if you put
them in double quotes. (Although I have to assume that you meant to put
one before arg2.)
Of course, it doesn't hurt to put strings like that into single quotes.
But I wouldn't want anybody reading this newsgroup to think that there was
some kind of a rule that strings being passed in a system call need to be
quoted with single quotes.
-- Tom Phoenix http://www.teleport.com/~rootbeer/
rootbeer@teleport.com PGP Skribu al mi per Esperanto!
Randal Schwartz Case: http://www.lightlink.com/fors/
------------------------------
Date: 26 Mar 1997 00:23:20 -0500
From: rnewman@shell1.cybercom.net (Ron Newman)
Subject: Re: global my() variable used in foreach() loop loses its value
Message-Id: <5habs8$fl1@shell1.cybercom.net>
In article <5h9tst$crr$1@halcyon.com>,
Brian L. Matthews <blm@halcyon.com> wrote:
>In article <5h9idg$9o0@shell1.cybercom.net>,
>Ron Newman <rnewman@shell1.cybercom.net> wrote:
>|I am using a global variable, declared my() at the top level, as
>|the loop control variable in a "foreach" loop.
>|Instead of getting the expected value of the variable, it instead
>|finds the variable to be empty. Can anyone explain this?
>
>Heavy sigh.
>
>Yes, I can explain it, as can the perl manual pages, as can any perl
>book worth reading, as can the FAQ, as can DejaNews (this has only
>been discussed what, 7 or 8 times in the past month?).
I don't see this discussed in any of these places. Can you
provide a more specific reference?
--
Ron Newman rnewman@cybercom.net
Web: http://www.cybercom.net/~rnewman/home.html
------------------------------
Date: 26 Mar 1997 00:26:01 -0500
From: rnewman@shell1.cybercom.net (Ron Newman)
Subject: Re: global my() variable used in foreach() loop loses its value
Message-Id: <5hac19$fna@shell1.cybercom.net>
In article <33386b65.590322401@news.earthlink.net>,
Scott Wimer <scottw@earthlink.net> wrote:
>my() variables are not visible to subroutines called from inside the
>block they are in.
My example had a *global* my() variable. This should be visible
from any subroutine that doesn't declare a local my() variable
of the same name.
This, for example, works fine:
#!/usr/bin/perl
my $string = "Hello world!";
subroutine();
sub subroutine() {
print "$string\n";
}
--
Ron Newman rnewman@cybercom.net
Web: http://www.cybercom.net/~rnewman/home.html
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 25 Mar 1997 19:57:16 -0800
From: Greg <GregR@spiritone.com>
Subject: Help Requested
Message-Id: <33389E9C.4764@spiritone.com>
Greetings All,
As a Perl wannabe I am trying to get Perl 5.x for Windows 3.1 or DOS. I
have gone to several Perl sites but either because of my confusion, or
unclear directions, I can not find a file, or group of files, clearly
marked as what I need. Any assistance would be appreciated.
Greg
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 25 Mar 1997 21:03:25 -0800
From: Tom Phoenix <rootbeer@teleport.com>
To: "Amandi R. Quvalis" <amandi@cast.uark.edu>
Subject: Re: How do I ? .. rand/srand champs read this
Message-Id: <Pine.GSO.3.96.970325204833.10758J-100000@kelly.teleport.com>
On 25 Mar 1997, Amandi R. Quvalis wrote:
> How do i output the contents of a m x n matrix in a random fashion ? I
> tried using srand( time() ^ ($$ + ($$ < 15)) ^ unpack "%32L*", `ps -cef
> | gzip` ); [yah those are backquotes) to seed it and generate m x n
> random #s using rand. Unfortunately, rand gives me repeats and I am left
> with duplicates. All I want is to generate m x n unique numbers with no
> repetition in a pretty random fashion.
That's probably _way_ overkill on srand. Are you looking to never get the
same number twice? That's a kind of shuffling. Maybe you want some
variation of this.
@list = 0..99; # Or whatever list of reasonable size
{
my @temp;
push @temp, splice @list, rand @list, 1 while @list;
@list = @temp;
}
Hope this helps!
-- Tom Phoenix http://www.teleport.com/~rootbeer/
rootbeer@teleport.com PGP Skribu al mi per Esperanto!
Randal Schwartz Case: http://www.lightlink.com/fors/
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 25 Mar 1997 22:45:35 -0500
From: Your Lord Sheldon <NOTHERE@there.com>
Subject: How do I save HTML document that's been created "on the fly"?
Message-Id: <33389BDF.7F94@psu.edu>
Hello. I hope someone can help me. I'm going
through a crash-course on Perl on my own and I
was wondering...
After filling out a form, an HTML document is
created once someone "submits" it. How do I save
the newly-created document so others can access it
later?
Thanks in advance for any suggestions or help.
Rei
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 25 Mar 1997 22:19:16 +0000
From: Eric Poindexter <eric@nettown.com>
To: Eric Litman <elitman@viaduct.com>
Subject: Re: interesting text formatting problem
Message-Id: <33384F64.2B1BBC9E@nettown.com>
Eric Litman wrote:
>
> I have a rather interesting text formatting problem to solve. I have an
> application in which I need to strip HTML from a document to deliver
> it via email as plain text. When simply removing (<.+?>), I'm left with
> large, blank areas in the paragraphs where the HTML tags once were.
>
> What I'd like to do is remove the HTML codes while retaining the
> original paragraph "shape" (i.e. formatted to 75 columns).
>
> Perl formats *almost* work, but they break down when dealing with line-by-line
> lists of items like this:
>
> This is the first list item
> This is the second, slightly longer, list item
> This is the third, longer than the first two, list item
>
> Has anyone solved this problem with a reasonably generic approach?
>
> --
> Eric A. Litman Viaduct Technologies, Inc. Bethesda, MD
> CEO http://www.viaduct.com (301) 493-0220
> digital cellular (PCS) info: http://www.celltalk.com
#!/usr/bin/perl
# eg of full justification
# by A. Eric Poindexter
# eric@nettown.com
# this is http://nettown.com/perl/eg/news.fullJustify
# @19970325
undef $/;
@f = <DATA>;
@f = &fullJustify (@f, 10);
$" = "\n";
print "@f\n";
sub fullJustify {
my $size = pop @_;
my @f = @_;
my $f = join '', @f;
@f = ();
$f =~ s/\n/ /g;
push @f, $& while $f =~ /.{$size,}?\b/go;
return @f;
}
__END__
I have a rather interesting text formatting problem to solve. I have an
application in which I need to strip HTML from a document to deliver
it via email as plain text. When simply removing (<.+?>), I'm left with
large, blank areas in the paragraphs where the HTML tags once were.
What I'd like to do is remove the HTML codes while retaining the
original paragraph "shape" (i.e. formatted to 75 columns).
Perl formats *almost* work, but they break down when dealing with
line-by-line
lists of items like this:
This is the first list item
This is the second, slightly longer, list item
This is the third, longer than the first two, list item
Has anyone solved this problem with a reasonably generic approach?
--
Eric A. Litman Viaduct Technologies, Inc. Bethesda,
MD
CEO http://www.viaduct.com (301)
493-0220
digital cellular (PCS) info: http://www.celltalk.com
--
Eric
<mailto:eric@nettown.com>
[http://nettown.com/perl/]
have a good day! (yes, Poindexter is Really my name :-)
------------------------------
Date: 26 Mar 1997 03:16:45 GMT
From: obsidian@shore.net (Kevin Swope)
Subject: Is there not a market for a fancy debugger?
Message-Id: <5ha4et$csh@fridge-nf0.shore.net>
When I work in c/c++ I have codewarrior. Windows all over the place, even
each for its own variable. Not a calculation goes unwatched.
When I work in applescript I have scripter. Almost like codewarrior, but
with a log window if I wan't to record the programs behavior.
When I work in perl the best I have is xemacs with a crappy looking =>,
which will obscure the code if you don't indent the whole thing, and a
command line debugger in the other frame.
I'm not saying that the implementation of the perl debugger is not good.
It's good for what it does.
I'm not saying that scripter and applescript are that great, (I sometimes
think that they rot).
WHAT I AM SAYING IS (while putting on my fireproof suit)
ISN'T THERE A MARKET FOR A "PERL PROGRAMMING ENVIRONMENT"
I'll pay big bucks for a perl debugger with buttons and windows and little
red break points and a nice jumping arrow...
...thank you for your time.
------------------------------
Date: 26 Mar 1997 03:49:35 GMT
From: nvp@shore.net (Nathan V. Patwardhan)
Subject: Re: Is there not a market for a fancy debugger?
Message-Id: <5ha6cf$h3r@fridge-nf0.shore.net>
Kevin Swope (obsidian@shore.net) wrote:
: I'll pay big bucks for a perl debugger with buttons and windows and little
: red break points and a nice jumping arrow...
I'm sure someone would pay you big bucks if you developed one, too. :-)
--
Nathan V. Patwardhan
nvp@shore.net
------------------------------
Date: 23 Mar 97 08:25:53 MET
From: wildi@ubaclu.unibas.ch
Subject: Need a binary distribution on a DEC alpha
Message-Id: <1997Mar23.082553.47439@yogi.urz.unibas.ch>
Hello
I have an DEC Alpha with OpenVMS 6.2 and I need a precompiled
version of Perl (5.003) because I can't afford the DEC-CC.
Is there anybody who can provide me a *.tar.gz file ?
Thank you, Markus Wildi
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 26 Mar 1997 01:48:13 -0600
From: Timothy Shell <tshell@mcs.net>
Subject: Re: Need help CGI scripting HTML forms to email
Message-Id: <3338D4BD.50B6@mcs.net>
Sheldon Rampton wrote:
>
> Hi, I'm about to attempt writing my first CGI script in Perl and am hoping
> someone can help me shortcut the learning curve. I've been learning Perl
> itself using MacPerl and have written a number of scripts that run
> successfully on my laptop. I've created a form in HTML and gotten the web
> page to work properly from my internet account. Now I want to create a
> script that will take the information posted from the form, clean it up a
> bit, and email the result back to me. The problem is, I can't figure out
> how to make Perl send email. I've bought two books on Perl and one on CGI
> scripting in Perl, and none of them seems to give any examples of how to
> do this. Can someone help me out, by (1) telling me to where to look up
> the information I need, or (2) emailing me a few lines of sample code?
> How, for example, would I write a script to send email from
> "sheldon@execpc.com" to "srampton@aol.com" with "Hello, world" in the
> Subject line and a simple paragraph of text in the message body? If
> someone can explain how I do this much, I think I can figure out the rest.
>
> Post responses here, and if you please, forward them to my email address:
> sheldon@execpc.com
>
> Thanks!
$mailprog = '/usr/bin/mail'; #this will depend on your mail program
$recipient = 'clinton@whitehouse.gov'; #this is the address to send to
open (MAIL, "|$mailprog -s \"subject\" $recipient") || die "Can't open
$mailprog!\n";
# this declares the file handle
# whatever
open (LFILE, ">>../../work-http/response.log");
# This copies the mail to a log file, if you want to do that.
# The path may be different for you.
print MAIL "This appears in the body of the mail message.\n";
print MAIL "So does this.";
print LFILE "This appears in the logfile.";
close (MAIL);
close (LFILE);
print "Content-type: text/html\n\n";
print "<html><head>\n";
print "<title>Thank you!</title>\n";
print "</head>\n";
print "\n";
print "<H3>Thank you for filling out this form!</H3>";
# This is a web page that is generated when the cgi script is run.
--
Timothy Shell : tshell@mcs.net
Freedom's Nest: http://www.bomis.com/fn
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 25 Mar 1997 20:03:06 -0800
From: Tom Phoenix <rootbeer@teleport.com>
To: Zyana <zyanya@ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Re: On-line web page editor: Changing the directory a file is written to?
Message-Id: <Pine.GSO.3.96.970325193344.10758B-100000@kelly.teleport.com>
On 25 Mar 1997, Zyana wrote for the second time:
> "How do you change the directory a file will be written to, on the
> same internet computer, though a Perl script web page editor run by a
> web page?"
I don't want to sound crabby here, but there are dozens of people who have
put THOUSANDS of hours of their lives into documenting exactly how to use
chdir, open, and other Perl functions. In fact, those people as a team
have done a far better job of documenting than any one person could do.
That is, any answer I could give here, short of quoting the relevant docs
to you, would be inadequate.
If you don't understand the excellent free documentation which is already
available, please let us know what's unclear to you. We'll be glad to
clear it up for you and for future readers of those same docs.
http://www.perl.org/CPAN/doc/FAQs/FAQ/html/index.html
http://www.perl.com/CPAN/doc/FAQs/FAQ/html/index.html
Hope this helps!
-- Tom Phoenix http://www.teleport.com/~rootbeer/
rootbeer@teleport.com PGP Skribu al mi per Esperanto!
Randal Schwartz Case: http://www.lightlink.com/fors/
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 26 Mar 1997 07:03:24 GMT
From: abigail@ny.fnx.com (Abigail)
Subject: Re: On-line web page editor: Changing the directory a file is written to?
Message-Id: <E7n29o.x5@nonexistent.com>
On 26 Mar 1997 02:33:33 GMT, Tom Christiansen wrote in comp.lang.perl.misc:
++
++ No, Tom: perlfunc has functions, perlop has operators. (Ok, I know we
++ put -X in perlfunc. Nonetheless...) These two aren't the same, except
++ in a sick and supergeeky kind of way that no one understands.
++
++ In the following expression:
++
++ $a = f($x) + g($y);
++
++ The operators are "+" and "=", whereas the functions are f() and g().
++ I realize you can blur the distinction, but that serves only to confuse
++ people. Don't call print or chomp operators. Call them functions.
Uhm, but what is the difference between functions and operators, other
than that functions usually contain just letters and preceed their
arguments, while operators mostly contain punctuation symbols and are
often found mingled between the operands?
Abigail
------------------------------
Date: 26 Mar 1997 06:18:58 GMT
From: kessler@roses (Will Kessler)
Subject: Perl & HP-UX 10.10?
Message-Id: <5haf4i$t8v@nntp.Stanford.EDU>
Built perl5.003 for HPUX 10.10. One critical test I need fails: odbm, viz:
lib/odbm.......Bad free() ignored at ./lib/odbm.t line 58.
ok
However, ndbm and gdbm tests run ok. dbmopen(), however, fails with
"No dbm support". Needless to say, I'm having trouble building gcc,
gas, and gdbm.
So, I need dbm support. HP-UX says it comes with it. Perl says
it doesn't exist. Is there something else I should tell Perl during the
build stage so that Perl will make use of dbm on HP-UX?
Thanks for any advice--
Will Kessler
kessler@roses.stanford.edu
Rehabilition Research Division
Dept. of Veterans Affairs
3801 Miranda Avenue/153
Palo Alto, CA 93404-1200
(415) 493-5000 x64726
------------------------------
Date: 26 Mar 1997 06:27:01 GMT
From: kessler@roses (Will Kessler)
Subject: Re: Perl book sugestions wanted
Message-Id: <5hafjl$t8v@nntp.Stanford.EDU>
No offense to the Camel books, which are of course the final word on
Perl, but personally, I think "The Perl 5 Interactive Course" from the
Waite Group "Meet your Mentor" series is better for the everyday perl
programmer. Not as sophisticated-- but you get a good example program
for just about every perl nook and cranny (on CD no less), lots of
helpful if cutesy diagrams, and a good index so you can use it as a
reference. Highly recommended-- I have both the Camel book and
Interactive Course book open on my desk all day. The problem with the
Camel book is there are lots of examples of what NOT to do with
commands and functions, e.g. side effects of using a command in a
strange way, which is rarely useful to me. If I'm dying for super
efficient or super tricky, though, I resort to Camel. But to get
the job done, I'd take Waite Group.
Will Kessler
kessler@roses.stanford.edu
Rehabilition Research Division
Dept. of Veterans Affairs
3801 Miranda Avenue/153
Palo Alto, CA 93404-1200
(415) 493-5000 x64726
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 25 Mar 1997 20:44:38 -0800
From: Tom Phoenix <rootbeer@teleport.com>
To: Aaron Bennett <abennett@stonehill.edu>
Subject: Re: Regular Expresion question.
Message-Id: <Pine.GSO.3.96.970325203637.10758H-100000@kelly.teleport.com>
On Tue, 25 Mar 1997, Aaron Bennett wrote:
> Part of what I want to do is parse the email address the user enters in
> a form and make sure it has one and only one "@" symbol and at least one
> ".".
You probably mean something like /^[^\@]+\@[^\@]+\.[^\@]+$/ , even though
that's not exactly what you asked for. Then again, you don't really want
to try to make a regular expression to validate e-mail addresses. :-)
(That one I just wrote isn't of much use, really. And you could make code
which would be faster, I imagine, if you use index instead of a regular
expression.)
> if %mail_form{'email'} =~ /\@{1}.+/ {
> print "<H1>Email is valid ", %mail_form{'email'}, "</H1>"; }
> I've read the camel book's pages on regular expresions and the regular
> expression section of the perl faq, but I can't seem to get this right.
Now you're ready to read the sections that tell you the syntax for an if
statement and a hash element reference. And seeing what the FAQ has to say
about validating e-mail addresses wouldn't hurt. Hope this helps!
-- Tom Phoenix http://www.teleport.com/~rootbeer/
rootbeer@teleport.com PGP Skribu al mi per Esperanto!
Randal Schwartz Case: http://www.lightlink.com/fors/
------------------------------
Date: 25 Mar 1997 15:10:03 -0500
From: kjahds@kjahds.com (Kenneth Albanowski)
Subject: Re: Standard "Reaper" procedure doesn't work on Solaris.
Message-Id: <5h9ber$42p@kjahds.com>
>In article <5g54o1$1s6$1@celebrian.otago.ac.nz> gideon@csarc.otago.ac.nz (Gideon King) writes:
>=> Solaris, Perl 5.002 - doesn't work
>=> Solaris, Perl 5.003 - doesn't work
>=>
>=> The offending code is:
>=> sub REAPER
>=> {
>=> $SIG{CHLD} = \&REAPER; # loathe sysV
>=> $waitedpid = wait;
>=> logmsg "reaped $waitedpid" . ($? ? " with exit $?" : '');
>=> }
>=> $SIG{CHLD} = \&REAPER;
This isn't portable. You need to say:
sub REAPER {
$waitedpid = wait;
$SIG{CHLD} = \&REAPER;
}
$SIG{CHLD} = \&REAPER;
That may help, or perhaps not. You might have better luck with the sigaction
function in the POSIX module.
--
Kenneth Albanowski (kjahds@kjahds.com)
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 25 Mar 1997 18:26:40 -0800
From: Mitch Spector <mitchspector@sprynet.com>
Subject: Sybperl 2.x static compile move question
Message-Id: <3338895F.72DC@sprynet.com>
I tried to install sybperl on our hpux 10.20 and version 5.003 of perl.
All went well untill i tried step 8. "make inst_perl MAP_TARGET=perl".
It seems that there is no inst_perl file found. The error msg: "Make:
Don't know how to make inst_perl. Stop." was returned when executing the
above line. I moved the binary from the source lib to the perl lib. Is
this ok?
tx
Mitch Spector
UniCare Information Systems
------------------------------
Date: 25 Mar 1997 22:30:03 -0700
From: zeek@primenet.com (John Reynolds)
Subject: Thank you perl developers!!!
Message-Id: <slrn5jhd1i.oah.zeek@dolphin.primenet.com>
Hello,
Just wanted to say "thank you" to all that have contributed to closing
the known Perl memory leaks from 5.003 to 5.003_93 (I read through the
Changes file in 5.003_93 ... there seemed to be alot of memory leaks that
were fixed :) ... THANK YOU!
I have several large Perl programs at work that parse and manipulate scores
of megabytes of chip-design data. On one particular program, Perl
5.003 was using upwards of 215Mb (yes, Mb) of core while running. When I
switched to 5.003_93, this usage went down to just over 80Mb (which is to
be expected because I'm reading in close to 50Mb of netlists and delay
information, etc.). Order of magnitude difference (almost ... it sure
feels like it :).
So ... thank you everyone who's worked on this version (and previous ones)!!!
Keep up the marvelous work!
-Jr
--
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
John Reynolds Four Guys' Plumbing -- South Chandler -- M.o.S.T.W.
jreynold@sedona.intel.com SPG Central Logic Engineering, Intel Corporation
zeek@primenet.com My opinions are mine, not Intel's
http://www.primenet.com/~zeek/ Running FreeBSD and loving it!
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
------------------------------
Date: 26 Mar 1997 02:36:17 GMT
From: Tom Christiansen <tchrist@mox.perl.com>
Subject: Re: Unix 'Cat' equivelent
Message-Id: <5ha231$hq8$4@csnews.cs.colorado.edu>
[courtesy cc of this posting sent to cited author via email]
In comp.lang.perl.misc, Tom Phoenix <rootbeer@teleport.com> writes:
:perl -pe0
Aw, cat pee. Call it
perl -pee
It's much more fun. :-)
--tom
--
Tom Christiansen tchrist@jhereg.perl.com
I don't believe it's written in Perl, though it probably
ought to have been. :-)
--Larry Wall in <1995Feb21.180249.25507@netlabs.com>
------------------------------
Date: 25 Mar 1997 21:43:10 GMT
From: "Tim Behrendsen" <tim@a-sis.com>
Subject: Re: Unix and ease of use (WAS: Who makes more ...)
Message-Id: <01bc3965$6db21a00$87ee6fce@timpent.a-sis.com>
Peter Seebach <seebs@solutions.solon.com> wrote in article
<5h8vsn$9uv@solutions.solon.com>...
> In article <01bc388f$41537ac0$87ee6fce@timpent.a-sis.com>,
> Tim Behrendsen <tim@a-sis.com> wrote:
> >Indeed, which is why it will never be dominant (note I did
> >*NOT* say successful, which is a different thing). Microsoft
> >et al have an incentive of fundamental survivability, and
> >Linux does not. Commercial operating systems will always be
> >a few steps ahead of free operating systems, simply because
> >they have to be to survive, and that is a much more powerful
> >incentive than some guy working part time on some part of
> >the operating system, particularly when that same guy is
> >probably working on a commercial O/S in order to put the kids
> >through college.
>
> Nonsense!
>
> Commercial systems will often *lag* free OS's, precisely because they can't
> afford to take risks.
>
> Linux developers can release something they know to be buggy, and have
> thousands of people help them work out the bugs.
This is an advantage?
This is lack of testing procedures and quality controls, and in
commercial houses they actually spend real *money* to develop
regression tests, etc.
> NetBSD has a 64 bit file system. It has had one for a long time. How
> long did it take Sun to get a real 64 bit file system? How about all of the
> commercial Unix and NT systems which *didn't* have 64 bit file systems, and
> some of which *still don't*.
Sure, you can find a feature here or there that is useful. But
ask yourself *why* Sun or whoever did not have a "real" 64-bit
filesystem? It's because the vast majority of users don't *need*
a 64-bit filesystem. And the ones that do go to the vendors that
do.
But the point isn't specific anecdotal evidence, it's the long
view that's important. How many features do commericial Unix's
have that NetBSD doesn't? How about AIX-style volume management,
where I can expand a filesystem *on-the-fly* on a running system?
Span physical devices? Mirroring built into the operating system,
and it automatically stripes requests across the physical devices?
How about menu-driven shells above all the unix-archana to make
system administration easier? How about plug-and-play built into
the operating system? How about a profile-feedback compiler?
> Wanna bet on whether the first usable IPv6 implementation is in a commercial
> or a free system?
Depends on what you mean by "usable".
Usable: free (maybe, because it will probably be experimented
with at Universities).
Stable: Commercial, definitely.
> When I'm at work, if I do an okay job, I get paid. If I try to do a perfect
> or excellent job, I get criticied for taking too long, because time to market
> is important.
You need to work for a better company. "Perfect and excellent"
begins at the design phase, not the implementation phase.
> When I'm playing around, and writing patches or enhancements for NetBSD, I
> have the time and luxury to do whatever I want, which will always be better
> than commercial success could support.
Are there little enhancements that a free product could conceivably
get that may not make it into a commericial release? Yes, no question
about it.
Will major subsystems such as volume management get created by
"playing around"? No, they only get created by concerted effort
by either "free" people or commercial people. And commercial
people have a lot more time and resources.
Again, it's not a question of whether free software is *viable*,
which it obviously is. It's just that it will always lag commercial
software *in the important areas*, because it must -- one of the
fundamental rules of business is "give people a reason to spend
money", and therefore survivability of the business is a far more
powerful incentive than mere "part-time fun project" incentive.
>
> >Do you think he is going to put something
> >into Linux that he wouldn't put into his commercial baby?
>
> Yes. Love.
Perhaps, but the best programmers I know put forth their best
effort on whatever project they work on, because they have pride
in their work. And it's much more ethical to do your best work
when you are being paid for it.
--
==========================================================================
| Tim Behrendsen (tim@a-sis.com) | http://www.cerfnet.com/~timb |
| "Judge all, and be prepared to be judged by all." |
==========================================================================
------------------------------
Date: 25 Mar 1997 14:35:42 GMT
From: mjr@laulujoutsen.pc.helsinki.fi (Mikko Rauhala)
Subject: Re: Unix and ease of use (WAS: Who makes more ...)
Message-Id: <slrn5jfogd.f5q.mjr@laulujoutsen.pc.helsinki.fi>
On Fri, 14 Mar 1997 21:31:45 -0500, Alicia Carla Longstreet <carla@ici.net> wrote:
>Mikko Rauhala wrote:
>> Gee, I haven't done this for my Linux systems when I've installed modems
>> and by golly, they do seem to magically work.
>
>Really, you just installed it and it worked, you didn't have to update a
>device description file, to tell Linux about the new modem? You either
>have plug `n play support or the support for your modem was already
>established.
(Sorry, took a while to notice your followup)
No plug'n'play in the modem, no plug'n'play in the kernel. MY modem was
not already established. I just tell the software to use the serial port
the modem is connected to. Your Win95-centric thinking leads you to think
device description files.
>> Oh, I did have to set the serial port IRQ once, since I use IRQ 7. Still,
>> that's something that can't really be reliably detected.
>
>That's nice, but I don't even have to do that, Windows 95 automatically
>assigns IRQ's and other resources at boot up time. Devices like my
No it won't, for non-PnP modems.
>modem can be 'told' by Windows what resources they are going to use,
>older devices (without plug `n play support) need descriptions, e.g.
>Windows has to be told what resources that are configured to use.
Which is the same thing I described. Except that I only tell the IRQ.
>In any event, your last statement sounds like you have created some type
>of device description file and all you have to do, when you change
>modems, is make the proper adjustments on the modem card. What would
Not really device description, a command on a boot-up script. That might
be taken to be the same, sure. Using standard IRQ's, however, it's not an
issue.
>you need to do if you had to insert another device that 'insisted' on
>using IRQ 7?
Change the IRQ on the device and the rc file (I think we have a tie here).
Luckily such devices aren't necessary for me.
I've heard horror stories of such events in Win95, where either the other
card is misreconfigured or the it's not (reconfigured, that is). Urban
legends? I doubt that they all are.
Of course, this whole problem is inherent in the PC architecture. Use
Linux on sensible hardware, no problems (which is of course more than can
be said for 95)
--
Mikko Rauhala, sivari - mjr@iki.fi - http://www.iki.fi/mjr/
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 26 Mar 1997 00:19:27 -0500
From: Ron Klimaszewski <microsys@IntNet.net>
Subject: Visual Perl
Message-Id: <3338B1DF.B5B@IntNet.net>
The March 1997 issue of SCO World mentions 'Visual Perl'.
I've not had any time to check the newsgroups lately and am wondering if
I missed something.
Please email.
Ron Klimaszewski
------------------------------
Date: 8 Mar 97 21:33:47 GMT (Last modified)
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Subject: Digest Administrivia (Last modified: 8 Mar 97)
Message-Id: <null>
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