[6454] in Perl-Users-Digest
Perl-Users Digest, Issue: 79 Volume: 8
daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (Perl-Users Digest)
Sun Mar 9 18:07:13 1997
Date: Sun, 9 Mar 97 15:00:22 -0800
From: Perl-Users Digest <Perl-Users-Request@ruby.OCE.ORST.EDU>
To: Perl-Users@ruby.OCE.ORST.EDU (Perl-Users Digest)
Perl-Users Digest Sun, 9 Mar 1997 Volume: 8 Number: 79
Today's topics:
backticks not working fine on Perl 5 - Windows NT 4.0 p (Stefano Fabi)
Re: Creating NonExisting File with Perl <d.j.evans@rdg.ac.uk>
Re: Graphical Perl for Win32 (Markus Laker)
Re: Help! Simple Question: Error 501: "Not Supported" (Tad McClellan)
Re: Is numeric or alphabetic??? (Steven Sajous)
libwww & Win32: When does Perl Win32 become _really_ us <mschilli@blacksun.com>
Re: libwww & Win32: When does Perl Win32 become _really (Nathan V. Patwardhan)
Re: Newbie Help: Links (Brian L. Matthews)
newbie question: how to pick a particular line in perl5 brz@hotmail.com
Re: Perl & Win 95 <buehner@pfaffenhofen.netsurf.de>
Re: PERL path (Brian L. Matthews)
Re: RAND/SRAND query <tkeitt@santafe.edu>
Simple PERL Question <dcane@courseinfo.com>
Re: Simple PERL Question (Tad McClellan)
Re: Strange but True (Brian L. Matthews)
Re: What is true? was: simple new question! (Brian L. Matthews)
Re: Who makes more $$ - Windows vs. Unix programmers? (Karma)
Re: Who makes more $$ - Windows vs. Unix programmers? (Jeff Schoner)
Re: Who makes more $$ - Windows vs. Unix programmers? (Dave Coker)
Re: Who makes more $$ - Windows vs. Unix programmers? (Morbius)
Re: Who makes more $$ - Windows vs. Unix programmers? <jimcor@corder.com>
Digest Administrivia (Last modified: 8 Mar 97) (Perl-Users-Digest Admin)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Mon, 10 Mar 1997 03:53:02 GMT
From: fbae11k1@bologna.nettuno.it (Stefano Fabi)
Subject: backticks not working fine on Perl 5 - Windows NT 4.0 peer web server
Message-Id: <332384bc.5924468@news.nettuno.it>
Hello
I'm using Perl 5.003 on Windows NT 4.0 (a new user!)
I'm not able to use the paired backquotes sintax
$variable = `command`;
For example
$date_read = `date /T`;
when the script is executed from Windows 4.0 Peer Web server.
When the perl script is executed from a console window all is ok
but when i invoke the script from a browser, the variable doesn't
receive the output from the command and when I print the content of
that variable I don't see anything.
Using a redirection inside the command
i.e. $date_read = `date /T > date.log`;
I discovered that the command is really executed
from the script because date.log is created with the correct
content.
Any help ?
Thank you
Stefano Fabi
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 09 Mar 1997 19:08:56 +0000
From: "David J. Evans" <d.j.evans@rdg.ac.uk>
To: *ps940566@beta.ufsia.ac.be
Subject: Re: Creating NonExisting File with Perl
Message-Id: <33230AC8.1D5D@rdg.ac.uk>
Arnout Symoens wrote:
>
> Following problem :
>
> I'm writing a little CGI in perl (works perfectly..). But one of the
> things I need is to create a none existing new file (a new one for
> each new user). I can't do this with the open command, which will die
> when I open a none existing file..
>
It's that powerful Perl command open ....
Try this :
$filename = "/path_to/file_created_by_perl";
open (FILE, ">$filename") || die "Can't create $filename; $!";
Have fun
David
> Ok, how do I create a new file from within perl ? It's running on an
> UNIX server...Would this mean I have to send an UNIX command like ? If
> yes, what command ? I can't find one..
>
> On the other hand..It's probably me, not noticing which powerfull
> command Perl has hidden somewhere for me to create a file ...
>
> Anyone can help me out with this one...Source (small) wouldl be
> appreciated..
>
> Thank you,
> Arnout Symoens
> Student somewhere and somehow...
> Aegir@mail.dma.be
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 09 Mar 1997 19:21:24 GMT
From: laker@tcp.co.uk (Markus Laker)
Subject: Re: Graphical Perl for Win32
Message-Id: <33230633.15401165@news.tcp.co.uk>
gwhassan@Coho.Stanford.EDU (Greg Hassan):
> I believe the perl/tk extensions work in windows.
> I have only used it for unix and it works great for
> little apps. Bigger apps seem to take to long to load
> to be useful.
>
> There is a perl/tk newsgroup, you should probably get the
> faq from that and read up on it.
I read a fortnight's postings in comp.lang.perl.tk[1] before posting
here, as well as the FAQ for that newsgroup, and I saw enough to
persuade me that Perl/Tk doesn't -- yet -- work under Windows. In
particular, I saw a number of requests for a Windows port that no one
had bothered to answer, presumably because it doesn't exist.
That's why I posted here in rather different terms: rather than asking
about Perl/Tk in the Perl/Tk group I wrote more generally about a
graphical version of Perl in the Perl group.
Even once Perl/Tk has been ported to Win32, I'm getting the feeling that
it might be a bit too slow for the 486DX4 machines that most of my users
have. I may have to find another way around the problem.
Thanks to everyone who responded, both by mail and here on clpm.
Markus Laker.
--
If you quote me, I would appreciate an email copy of your article.
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 9 Mar 1997 12:30:27 -0600
From: tadmc@flash.net (Tad McClellan)
Subject: Re: Help! Simple Question: Error 501: "Not Supported"
Message-Id: <3kvuf5.dn2.ln@localhost>
--- (bailey766@aol.com) wrote:
: >4) especially for newbies: You don't really think that you are the
: > first one to have your newbie problem, do you? So, your question
: > has likely been asked and answered already. Just go find it...
: Point well taken. There were better ways to approach the problem that
: for whatever reason I overlooked; I was looking for a quick answer and
: my experience is that 9 times out of 10, when I can't find the answer
: I am looking for in the subject line of all "current" messages in a
: newsgroup, posting a question gets a fast response.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
I see that as shifting who spends the time from you to us.
That's why I get testy, we're not here to read the docs for you...
: That other 1 out
: of 10 times, a mild flame session is invoked in which any number of
: folks post countless follow-ups telling me how I am wasting bandwidth
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
And may well give you your own personal killfile entry too.
Limiting the number of people who will see your post (and future
posts) is counter productive to getting an answer too...
: or other net resources. Oh the irony! :)
The major problem with posting FAQ questions for the umpteenth time,
is that it can drive answerers away from participating in the
newsgroup at all.
Answers will be hard to get after everybody who knows anything has
been driven away...
See Larry Wall posting here very much? At all? He's already
abandoned the group...
: Someone else said it is "standard procedure" to read the newsgroup for
: 2 weeks before posting. Does that mean EVERY single message? I have
: had this group in my reader for a few months, and I glance at it from
: time to time, and I have seen LOTS of redundant newbie questions where
: nobody got beat up as badly as I did over this issue. What do you
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Maybe because they were _perl_ newbie questions? We are not here
to smash newbies. Everybody was a newbie themselves at some point.
Usenet is a little society of its own. When we (me, anyway) see
someone who obviously doesn't know what's acceptable in this
society, I try to help them find out. Else they may never know that
readers see them as 'farting at the dinner table' because they don't
know that they're expected to not do that.
: want to bet it is because of the "aol.com" in my e-mail address? Well
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Not in my case. Though I did have that entire domain killfiled for
several weeks. Took it out after the auto-FAQ was started...
: take a look at the message header, folks, I am posting through Free
: Agent which I would not be able to do with aol (I dont think, anyway).
: The aol.com is just a mailbox that I want mail to be directed to,
: since my $9 a month for AOL gets me an excellent stock portfolio
: manager and unlimited mailboxes. It is also quite fast when accessed
: through TCP/IP. So to whoever mentioned the "two weeks" time frame,
: (I know it wasn't you), your point does not hold up very well.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Wasn't who? You cut out the attribution line ;-)
: But anyway thank you to you and everyone who has pointed me in the
: right direction. I will do better next time.
Glad to be of help.
for all readers, not just bailey:
Serve **your own self-interest!**
Finding the answer in a couple of minutes
by reading the docs or using search engines, is good for your
Impatience and Hubris. ;-)
--
Tad McClellan SGML Consulting
Tag And Document Consulting Perl programming
tadmc@flash.net
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 09 Mar 1997 20:07:54 GMT
From: steve@golf.com (Steven Sajous)
Subject: Re: Is numeric or alphabetic???
Message-Id: <33231808.588072202@news.clark.net>
\d is adigit \D is everything but a digit
On Wed, 26 Feb 97 19:26:55 GMT, Daniel.Fournier@courrier.usherb.ca
(Daniel Fournier) wrote:
>Hello folks,
>
>(sorry this might belong in comp.lang.perl but it is not yet added
>to our news server...)
>
>Is there any way to test if the value of a variable is purely numeric,
>alphabetic, or alphanumeric? How is it done for each?
>
> Before testing if the value of a variable is greater than 100 I want to be
>sure it contains only digits (integer number) so that the if comparison
>statement will not be invalid.
>
>Please respond directly. Thanks.
>
>Daniel.Fournier@courrier.usherb.ca
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 09 Mar 1997 11:18:45 -0800
From: Michael Schilli <mschilli@blacksun.com>
Subject: libwww & Win32: When does Perl Win32 become _really_ usable?
Message-Id: <33230D0D.4B6F@blacksun.com>
Hi folks,
a little story how I tried to get libwww running on Win95:
1. I loaded down
CPAN/ports/win95/Perl5/perl5.001m/CurrentBuild/110-i86.zip
and installed it. When trying to 'perl Makefile.PL' in the
libwww Distribution, it said 'perl 5.002' required.
2. So I sneaked around in the win95/Perl5/beta/ directory in the
CPAN ports section and found Pw32i303.EXE, a perl 5.003 version.
Trying 'perl Makefile.PL' in the libwww distribution revealed
'ExtUtils/MakeMaker.pm not found'.
3. Now I tried to mix the two perl distributions build 110 and beta
5.003 and this time tons of messages where showing up, indicating
that the whole thing was really messed up.
My question is now:
Did I do something wrong during the installation process? And, if not,
when is Win32 supposed to be running with (almost) standard
modules like libwww?
Any help is apprechiated.
--
Michael
------------------------------
Date: 9 Mar 1997 20:29:15 GMT
From: nvp@shore.net (Nathan V. Patwardhan)
Subject: Re: libwww & Win32: When does Perl Win32 become _really_ usable?
Message-Id: <5fv6ir$3fa@fridge-nf0.shore.net>
Michael Schilli (mschilli@blacksun.com) wrote:
: a little story how I tried to get libwww running on Win95:
Excellent story. ;-)
: 2. So I sneaked around in the win95/Perl5/beta/ directory in the
: CPAN ports section and found Pw32i303.EXE, a perl 5.003 version.
: Trying 'perl Makefile.PL' in the libwww distribution revealed
: 'ExtUtils/MakeMaker.pm not found'.
That's right. MakeMaker seems to be missing in 5.003_07 of the NT Perl
distribution - in fact, I'm pretty sure that it was never ported.
: 3. Now I tried to mix the two perl distributions build 110 and beta
: 5.003 and this time tons of messages where showing up, indicating
: that the whole thing was really messed up.
Doh! Don't do that. Please un-install the whole thing, and re-install
Perl 5.003_07, which has pretty good sockets support.
There's supposed to be a port of libwww "special-made" for Win32, but
I've not seen it or tried it as of yet.
--
Nathan V. Patwardhan
nvp@shore.net
------------------------------
Date: 9 Mar 1997 11:42:14 -0800
From: blm@halcyon.com (Brian L. Matthews)
Subject: Re: Newbie Help: Links
Message-Id: <5fv3qm$3vj$1@halcyon.com>
In article <01bc2c39$a6cad540$148158ce@gnaik.cyberwar.com>,
G. Naik <gnaik@iname.com> wrote:
|~/public_html/index.html -to- ~/public_html/cgi-bin/Welcome.cgi.
|When I try to access Index.html it goes to Welcome.cgi, but the script
|doesn't run, I see the source of it.
This is really a server question, not perl, but I suspect what's
happening is that your server is determining what to do with the file
using the path being browsed, not what it's linked to. There may be
a way to configure your server to do otherwise. Read the docs on
whatever server you're running, and if that doesn't help, ask in
one of the comp.infosystems.www.servers.* newsgroups.
Brian
--
Brian L. Matthews Illustration Works, Inc.
For top quality, stock commercial illustration, visit:
http://www.halcyon.com/artstock
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 09 Mar 1997 16:51:16 -0600
From: brz@hotmail.com
Subject: newbie question: how to pick a particular line in perl5 (win32)
Message-Id: <857947123.31113@dejanews.com>
Hi all:
I am a unix guy moving to PC and I have this question:
I retrived some data off the web and would like to get
the 27th line for example.
In Unix shell I would simply do:
head -27 file | tail -1
how can i do this on a PC or is there a perl builtin
function I can use. Thanks !!!
brz
-------------------==== Posted via Deja News ====-----------------------
http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Post to Usenet
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 09 Mar 1997 21:52:35 +0100
From: Thomas Buehner <buehner@pfaffenhofen.netsurf.de>
Subject: Re: Perl & Win 95
Message-Id: <VA.00000037.01339ec0@tbuero1>
Is it complaining that it cannot do the registry entries? In this case,
make sure you have (local) admin authority when you run the install.bat.
Thomas Buehner
> Have you tried the on from ActiveWare (i.e. www.ActiveWare.com)? It
> looks like it was a MicroSoft sponsored port (for whatever that's
worth).
> I'm currently trying to get it up and running on a NT server machine
but
> the install BAT is puking.
------------------------------
Date: 9 Mar 1997 11:50:22 -0800
From: blm@halcyon.com (Brian L. Matthews)
Subject: Re: PERL path
Message-Id: <5fv49u$44h$1@halcyon.com>
In article <01bc2c47$8cdfab20$1a4281ce@zonetemp.dns.microsoft.com>,
David Williamson <drwill@loginet.com> wrote:
| @INC = (@INC, "c:\\somepath");
A number of things:
- This is better written using push. It's probably more efficient, and
it's certainly more "idiomatically correct".
- Write the path as 'c:/somepath'. All DOS and Window's versions since
something like MS-DOS 2.0 have treated / and \ the same in a path, and
you won't have to escape the \, and you'll be more compatible with
Unix and Unix-derived utilities like perl, tcl, python, etc.
- You probably want to add the new path to the front of @INC using
unshift. This lets you override standard libraries if you want.
- Being use's happen at compile time, any modification to @INC must
be made at compile time and before the use, or it won't have the
desired affect. You could wrap the above in BEGIN {}, but a better
way is to:
use lib 'c:/somepath';
So, to summarize, replace the @INC = ... above with use lib 'c:/somepath',
and make sure it's before any use statements that use a module in
c:/somepath.
Brian
--
Brian L. Matthews Illustration Works, Inc.
For top quality, stock commercial illustration, visit:
http://www.halcyon.com/artstock
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 09 Mar 1997 12:24:31 -0700
From: "Timothy H. Keitt" <tkeitt@santafe.edu>
Subject: Re: RAND/SRAND query
Message-Id: <33230E6F.B15@santafe.edu>
I have a comment and a question:
First, you can't generate truely random numbers, only pseudo-random
numbers. Just how "random" they are depends on your random number
generator. I assume perl uses UNIX's rand() function. This is one of
the worst random number generators ever devised! Its probably ok for
really simple applications (choose a random host, etc.), but not for any
kind of Monte Carlo applications.
Now the question: Can you provide an alternate random number generator
to perl at build- or run-time?
Tim
Ron & Mary Stephens wrote:
>
> I'm writing a script which needs to generate several random
> integers. Here's the problem which I hope someone will have
> an answer to.
>
--
Timothy H. Keitt
SFI Postdoctoral Fellow
tkeitt@santafe.edu
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 09 Mar 1997 15:19:28 -0500
From: Daniel Cane <dcane@courseinfo.com>
Subject: Simple PERL Question
Message-Id: <33231B50.63E7@courseinfo.com>
Hey all,
I know that their are many ways to do this, but I would like to hear
which way you think is the most efficient. I am reading in a text file
with the following structure:
blah....
<!--BEGIN>
blah....
blah....
<!--END>
blah...
I need to remove the junk inside the <!--BEGIN> and <!--END> tags and
replace it with something else. What is the best way to do this? Pattern
match? use an array? How can I match patterns on diff. lines? I have a
work around, but it is UGLY and I would like to know the "real" way of
doing this.
Thanks alot!
-Dan Cane
dec8@cornell.edu
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 9 Mar 1997 15:30:24 -0600
From: tadmc@flash.net (Tad McClellan)
Subject: Re: Simple PERL Question
Message-Id: <g5avf5.tb3.ln@localhost>
Daniel Cane (dcane@courseinfo.com) wrote:
: Hey all,
: I know that their are many ways to do this, but I would like to hear
: which way you think is the most efficient. I am reading in a text file
^^^^^^^^^
Efficient in what domain?
1) uses the least memory?
2) takes the least amount of time to write?
3) runs the fastest?
4) is easiest to understand when you have to modify it six months later?
5) takes the least amount of disk space?
...
As you often need to make trade-offs between the above, there is
no general rule for 'efficiency'...
: with the following structure:
: blah....
: <!--BEGIN>
: blah....
: blah....
: <!--END>
: blah...
: I need to remove the junk inside the <!--BEGIN> and <!--END> tags and
^^^^^^^^^^
You know that those are broken comments don't you? Many browsers
are correspondingly broken to treat those as comments though. If
the browsers are ever fixed to recognize only real comments, then
the above will need to be fixed.
If you can influence what markers to use, it would be a Really Good
Idea to use correct comments from the get-go:
<!--BEGIN-->
^^
: replace it with something else. What is the best way to do this? Pattern
^^^^^^^^
I'll just offer _some_ ways. Choosing what's "best" is left as
an exercise for the reader ;-)
: match? use an array?
^^^^^^^^^^^^
An array doesn't really get you anything over doing it line
by line.
I might just use a single string. These are likely "best" if the files
are relatively small:
-----------
#!/usr/bin/perl -w
$_ = join '', <DATA>; # slurp in the whole file, without messing with
# special variables
s/<!--BEGIN>.*?<!--END>/something else/gs;
print;
__DATA__
blah....
<!--BEGIN>
blah....
blah....
<!--END>
blah...
-----------
-----------
#!/usr/bin/perl -w
$/ = '';
$_ = <DATA>; # slurp in the whole file
s/<!--BEGIN>.*?<!--END>/something else/gs;
print;
__DATA__
blah....
<!--BEGIN>
blah....
blah....
<!--END>
blah...
-----------
: How can I match patterns on diff. lines?
Pretty much the same way as when they are on the same line.
A problem people often have is how to _get_ a mutliline string
into a variable to search in, rather than how to do the multi-line
pattern match.
if you use dot (.) in your pattern, then you may want to look into
the s///s modifier.
if you use anchors ( ^ or $ ) in your pattern, then you may want to
look into the s///m modifier.
: I have a
: work around, but it is UGLY and I would like to know the "real" way of
: doing this.
If the files are very large, then I might go with a line by line approach:
-----------
#!/usr/bin/perl -w
while (<DATA>) {
if (/<!--BEGIN>/) {
for ($_=<DATA>; $_ !~ /<!--END>/; $_=<DATA>) {} # skip some lines
print "something else\n";
next;
}
print;
}
__DATA__
blah....
<!--BEGIN>
blah....
blah....
<!--END>
blah...
-----------
--
Tad McClellan SGML Consulting
Tag And Document Consulting Perl programming
tadmc@flash.net
------------------------------
Date: 9 Mar 1997 11:55:23 -0800
From: blm@halcyon.com (Brian L. Matthews)
Subject: Re: Strange but True
Message-Id: <5fv4jb$4a6$1@halcyon.com>
In article <adelton.857908677@aisa.fi.muni.cz>,
Honza Pazdziora <adelton@fi.muni.cz> wrote:
|syoung@actcom.co.il (Sara Young) writes:
|> if ($key=$something) {
|> last;
|First, shouldn't the test be if ($key==$something) { instead of just =?
Or $key eq $something.
|So before the last command you may need to do another
|while (each %hash) {} to "empty" the iterator.
Being the iterator is shared by keys, each, and values, it's probably
faster on average to just do a keys %hash.
Brian
--
Brian L. Matthews Illustration Works, Inc.
For top quality, stock commercial illustration, visit:
http://www.halcyon.com/artstock
------------------------------
Date: 9 Mar 1997 12:25:12 -0800
From: blm@halcyon.com (Brian L. Matthews)
Subject: Re: What is true? was: simple new question!
Message-Id: <5fv6b8$4tm$1@halcyon.com>
In article <RS4ClBAhnqIzEw22@dozyrosy.demon.co.uk>,
Rosemary I H Powell <webster@dozyrosy.demon.co.uk> wrote:
|But I think, in general, there are two different sorts of "true" and
|"false"?
No. undef, '', and '0' are all false. Every other value is true.
|1) where a variable may or may not have a value (as in this instance)
This is whether the variable (or anything returning a value) is
defined or not. This is *not* the same as whether it's true or false.
For example, '0' is defined, but false.
If you know anything about formal logic, it's all very straightforward:
true implies defined implies exists
doesn't exists implies undefined implies false
(where of course exists only makes sense for hash elements) are both true,
but reversing either of those doesn't result in either a true or a false
statement.
|2) where it DOES has a value set
All true values are defined, but not all false values. Again,
defined is not equivalent to true and undefined is not equivalent to
false.
|But, is this second option an "Evil Thing" :-( in Perl,
Only Man is good or evil. Perl just is. :-)
| $true = $yes = 1;
| $false = $no = 0;
Well, now we're into matters of style. I don't like such stuff,
because, in my opinion, it adds nothing, and requires more typing. :-)
It can also be dangerous, because it becomes tempting to write things
like:
if (x () == $false)
which is fraught with danger, for instance when someone comes along
and modifies x to return undef in certain cases, not even knowing
your code exists. Then you, or whoever's maintaining your code,
has to deal with it suddenly no longer working when they haven't
touched it in years.
Brian
--
Brian L. Matthews Illustration Works, Inc.
For top quality, stock commercial illustration, visit:
http://www.halcyon.com/artstock
------------------------------
Date: 9 Mar 1997 20:20:21 GMT
From: karma@nwlink.com (Karma)
Subject: Re: Who makes more $$ - Windows vs. Unix programmers?
Message-Id: <karma-0903971231120001@ip053.mu3.nwlink.com>
In article <3322F41F.6C8E@infonline.net>, jdcox@infonline.net wrote:
> Future Programmer wrote:
>
> Subject says it all. Based on your personal experience and
> statistics,
> where a good programmer can make more money - in Windows or Unix
> arena?
> Unix appeals more to me and is more advanced technically, but I am
> afraid that it is losing the market share to Windows 95. I want to
> be in
> the consulting field.
>
> I am a recent college graduate in NYC and have offers to work in
> both fields. Please do not start Windows vs. Unix OS flamewar.
> Your insighful observations are appreciated. Please followup.
>
> No flaming I promise. I would think that a windows programmer would
> have
> more opportunity simply because more people use it. I am currently a
> UNIX
> administrator for a local hospital, and the majority of my users'
> questions and
> requests for support concern windows. Hope this helps.
>
> Regards
> JD Cox
>
Definitely, Windows!!! Though, I would focus on support rather than
software development. Since there are various flavours of Windows (3.1,
9x, NT x.x) and umpteen number of incompatible hardware designs, this adds
up to a myriad combinations of possible mismatches, you can spend all the
24-hours in a day fixing one machine or the other.
Infinite possibilities of earning a living, and perhaps becoming a
Millionaire in about 5 years. There are a lot of suckers out there who
have Microsoft-Intel Computers. These never learn and keep on upgrading
from one "Windows" to another. From on Intel Chip to another.
Look at Bill Gates of Microsoft and Andy Grove of Intel.
------------------------------
Date: 9 Mar 1997 13:36:05 -0700
From: zek@primenet.com (Jeff Schoner)
Subject: Re: Who makes more $$ - Windows vs. Unix programmers?
Message-Id: <33231edb.3924877@news.primenet.com>
On 9 Mar 1997 18:06:47 GMT, "Giampaolo Tomassoni" <tomassoni" @ ftbcc"
.it> wrote:
>
>> If you are thinking about a career right now, COBOL programming
>> will increase your salary, but you are probably a little late
>> for the big surge in this marked.
>
>Even too late in USA.
Maybe not. Much of the software that is not Year2000 compatable is
written in COBOL. COBOL programmers may be in demand in the near
future, but probably not in the long run.
------------------------------
Date: 9 Mar 1997 16:36:37 -0500
From: dcoker@panix.com (Dave Coker)
Subject: Re: Who makes more $$ - Windows vs. Unix programmers?
Message-Id: <5fvah5$kt3@panix.com>
The question misses the real value of a programmer - what he/she knows
about a specific line of business. Regardless of the language/os skills,
it's what you bring to "the business" that counts.
I work on Wall St, and most of the people that I work with and that
work with me are hybrids; we know LOTS about CS and LOTS about
finance.
Future Programmer (futureprog@bridge.net.NOSPAM.PLEASE) wrote:
: Subject says it all. Based on your personal experience and statistics,
: where a good programmer can make more money - in Windows or Unix arena?
: Unix appeals more to me and is more advanced technically, but I am
: afraid that it is losing the market share to Windows 95. I want to be in
: the consulting field.
: I am a recent college graduate in NYC and have offers to work in
: both fields. Please do not start Windows vs. Unix OS flamewar.
: Your insighful observations are appreciated. Please followup.
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 09 Mar 1997 14:04:36 -0800
From: morbius@killspam.net (Morbius)
Subject: Re: Who makes more $$ - Windows vs. Unix programmers?
Message-Id: <morbius-0903971404360001@pm807.sure.net>
In article <Qn8myVi00iWZ45MJlf@andrew.cmu.edu>, William Taylor Wilson
<fluffy+@andrew.cmu.edu> wrote:
> Excerpts from netnews.comp.os.linux.advocacy: 9-Mar-97 Re: Who makes
> more $$ - Win.. by "Terje A. Bergesen"@eune
>
> > will. MS and others claim NT is making inroads into the UNIX
> > server marked, but based on my experience this is not correct,
>
> What they're doing is simply calling NT platforms workstations. They're
> able to do this because so many Intel systems now have workstation-class
> performance. NT isn't actually DISPLACING Unix-type systems, nor are
> Intel systems displacing traditional (Sun, IBM, HP, SGI, whatever)
> workstations.
>
> > with the possible exception of webservers. NT seems to be killing
> > NetWare in many companies however...
>
> Actually NT's market share in webserving is dropping, because you can
> put together a good web server on Linux (or *BSD) with Apache in less
> time on a less powerful system than you can with NT, provided you have
> someone in your organization that knows how to set it up. Look at
> cdrom.com, for example...
I do some consulting work (in my free time) for a consulting company with
branches in most major US cities. Here is what they charge the customers,
for the services rendered:
IBM/Clones/DOS $125/hr
Mac/OS2/Amiga $145/hr
Windows 95/NT $145/hr
Unix/CAD/CAM $165/hr
Networks/Novell $185/hr
Proprietary/Vertical $195/hr
This rates do not apply to larger projects, nor do they apply to
contract/long term services. Those rates tend to be lower. Now, what
hardware/OS would you like to work on, considering that a substantial
percentage of the fees is your commision?
Morbius
--
"Nyuck, nyuck, nyuck!..." Curly
e-mail: morbius@sure.net
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 09 Mar 1997 17:13:11 -0500
From: "James D. Corder" <jimcor@corder.com>
Subject: Re: Who makes more $$ - Windows vs. Unix programmers?
Message-Id: <332335F7.172F@corder.com>
Karma wrote:
>
> In article <3322F41F.6C8E@infonline.net>, jdcox@infonline.net wrote:
>
> > Future Programmer wrote:
> > where a good programmer can make more money - in Windows or Unix
> > arena?
> > Unix appeals more to me and is more advanced technically, but I am
> > afraid that it is losing the market share to Windows 95. I want to
> > be in the consulting field.
> >
> > I am a recent college graduate in NYC and have offers to work in
> > both fields. Please do not start Windows vs. Unix OS flamewar.
> > Your insighful observations are appreciated. Please followup.
Remember that all fields of work are a pyramid!
There are more Jrs. on the Bottom and very view
Srs. on the top.
There is more money in servers than in desk tops:
Face it; if one desk top crashes then one employee
is out of work. However, if the Server goes down
100s or even 1,000s of employes can not do their job.
Now there are more desk tops than servers. Therefore,
there are more jobs for developing desk top interfaces
than servers.
It takes less time to learn Windows than UNIX. But UNIX
is more powerful than Windows. You buy the system to fill
your needs:
Mac moped
Personal Computer Car
Sparc 5 S10 Pickup Truck
Ultra 1 1ton Pickup
Sun 10,000 Mac Truck
Ahmdahl Freight Train
Now think of it as a tool. All of them can deliver a
gallon of milk. But some are over kill. All can deliver
6 gallons of milk. But the Moped has to make six trips
and others are still over kill. Now lets deliver
1,000,000 gallons of milk: It is time for the freight
Train. Ok, the Moped can still do it but it will take
1,000,000 trips.
Now how many people in your neighborhood own a moped?
Car, Truck, Mac Truck, and/or Train. Ok, not many people
are have a moped, those who have them love them, but there
just isn't a moped shop on every corner. Now Car Garage/Gas
station is on every other corner. Ok, how many places
do you see on a daily basis to repair Mac Trucks or
Freight Trains?
Ok, UNIX vs Windows:
Ok, the average Windows Desk Top Environment Programmer
that I have worked with makes about $25,000.00 fresh out
of college and will make upto $35/40,000.00 a year.
The Average Novel Admin makes between $45/50,000.00 a year
The top I have seen: $55,000.00
The average UNIX Jr. System Administrator
fresh out of College makes $32,000.00:
SA = $55,000.00
Lead SA = $70,000.00
Sr. SA = $104,000.00
As a contractor I bill my services at $125.00 an hour
plus expenses.
In short: Supply and Demand:
There is more of a demand for Windows people but there
is a far greater supply than demand. On the other hand
there is more of a demand for UNIX dudes than there is a
supply...
Just my $.02,
James D. Corder Life is watching the ones you grow up
jimcor@corder.com Just getting by is watching the pictures
on
http://post369.columbus.oh.us your desk change as your they grow up.
------------------------------
Date: 8 Mar 97 21:33:47 GMT (Last modified)
From: Perl-Request@ruby.oce.orst.edu (Perl-Users-Digest Admin)
Subject: Digest Administrivia (Last modified: 8 Mar 97)
Message-Id: <null>
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End of Perl-Users Digest V8 Issue 79
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