[32679] in Perl-Users-Digest
Perl-Users Digest, Issue: 3956 Volume: 11
daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (Perl-Users Digest)
Tue May 28 00:09:20 2013
Date: Mon, 27 May 2013 21:09:04 -0700 (PDT)
From: Perl-Users Digest <Perl-Users-Request@ruby.OCE.ORST.EDU>
To: Perl-Users@ruby.OCE.ORST.EDU (Perl-Users Digest)
Perl-Users Digest Mon, 27 May 2013 Volume: 11 Number: 3956
Today's topics:
a remark about 'stability' <rweikusat@mssgmbh.com>
Re: a remark about 'stability' <rweikusat@mssgmbh.com>
Re: a remark about 'stability' <ben@morrow.me.uk>
Re: a remark about 'stability' <rweikusat@mssgmbh.com>
Re: a remark about 'stability' <rweikusat@mssgmbh.com>
Re: Would anyone teach me perl? <visphatesjava@gmail.com>
Digest Administrivia (Last modified: 6 Apr 01) (Perl-Users-Digest Admin)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Sun, 26 May 2013 19:58:43 +0100
From: Rainer Weikusat <rweikusat@mssgmbh.com>
Subject: a remark about 'stability'
Message-Id: <87txlpsh3w.fsf@sapphire.mobileactivedefense.com>
,----
| I suspect that the CPAN-hostile environment which still promotes
| CGI.pm as the state of the art in Perl overlaps strongly with the
| older-is-better-stability-over-all enterprise Linux distribution
| group, of which Red Hat for example won't provide Perl 5.20 for
| several years,
`----
I also suspect that the fraction of people who have existing code they
don't want to see broken because of 'political attempts' to promote
this or that not-yet-abandoned wepp fremmwuerg strongly overlaps with
the fraction of people who have existing code they ....
But you, dear modernists, can do better than outlined above: Just
break more stuff which always used to work more rapidly and you might
manage to make Perl 5 go the way of Perl6^Wthe dodo: Nobody uses it
because it isn't fit for use anymore. Imagine that you can probably
get 'RedHat' to never ship Perl 5.20 and onwards at all because
none of their customers wants it.
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 26 May 2013 22:06:37 +0100
From: Rainer Weikusat <rweikusat@mssgmbh.com>
Subject: Re: a remark about 'stability'
Message-Id: <87ppwdsb6q.fsf@sapphire.mobileactivedefense.com>
Rainer Weikusat <rweikusat@mssgmbh.com> writes:
> ,----
> | I suspect that the CPAN-hostile environment which still promotes
> | CGI.pm as the state of the art in Perl overlaps strongly with the
> | older-is-better-stability-over-all enterprise Linux distribution
> | group, of which Red Hat for example won't provide Perl 5.20 for
> | several years,
> `----
>
> I also suspect that the fraction of people who have existing code they
> don't want to see broken because of 'political attempts' to promote
> this or that not-yet-abandoned wepp fremmwuerg strongly overlaps with
> the fraction of people who have existing code they ....
To supplant this with some 'real-world data': Among the things I need
to deal with at the moment are two packages making up a 'system
management GUI' I'm supposed to maintain and extend in order to
provide a more complete set of features. These consist of 7,404 lines
of code based on CGI.pm (5,553 Perl, 1,043 sh, 808 C) and even if I
would agree with 'strange' opinion statements a la 'in order to use
the CGI protocol, you have to know the CGI protocol' (Really? Who da
thunk ...), considering what amounts to 18 lines of Apache
configuration 'hard to deploy' (Someone confusing his ignorance with
'objective technical difficulties' OR someone hoping to confuse
ignorant others?) or assuming that "it hasn't changed much since 1998"
would constitute a quality judgement (the stove I'm using today also
"hasn't changed much" compared to stoves I used to use ten years ago
-- clearly, the fact that it works instead of being 'under
construction' is abhorrent), there would be no way in heaven or hell
to convince my boss that rewriting these seven-and-a-half thousand
lines of code in a currently more fashionable way in order for them to
become more ... fashionable would be a sensible way to use company
work time.
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 26 May 2013 23:08:54 +0100
From: Ben Morrow <ben@morrow.me.uk>
Subject: Re: a remark about 'stability'
Message-Id: <moda7a-ut31.ln1@anubis.morrow.me.uk>
Quoth Rainer Weikusat <rweikusat@mssgmbh.com>:
> ,----
> | I suspect that the CPAN-hostile environment which still promotes
> | CGI.pm as the state of the art in Perl overlaps strongly with the
> | older-is-better-stability-over-all enterprise Linux distribution
> | group, of which Red Hat for example won't provide Perl 5.20 for
> | several years,
> `----
>
> I also suspect that the fraction of people who have existing code they
> don't want to see broken because of 'political attempts' to promote
> this or that not-yet-abandoned wepp fremmwuerg strongly overlaps with
> the fraction of people who have existing code they ....
Oh, do shut up. Nobody cares about your paranoid ranting.
Ben
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 27 May 2013 11:56:20 +0100
From: Rainer Weikusat <rweikusat@mssgmbh.com>
Subject: Re: a remark about 'stability'
Message-Id: <87ip24hesr.fsf@sapphire.mobileactivedefense.com>
Ben Morrow <ben@morrow.me.uk> writes:
> Quoth Rainer Weikusat <rweikusat@mssgmbh.com>:
>> ,----
>> | I suspect that the CPAN-hostile environment which still promotes
>> | CGI.pm as the state of the art in Perl overlaps strongly with the
>> | older-is-better-stability-over-all enterprise Linux distribution
>> | group, of which Red Hat for example won't provide Perl 5.20 for
>> | several years,
>> `----
>>
>> I also suspect that the fraction of people who have existing code they
>> don't want to see broken because of 'political attempts' to promote
>> this or that not-yet-abandoned wepp fremmwuerg strongly overlaps with
>> the fraction of people who have existing code they ....
>
> Oh, do shut up. Nobody cares about your paranoid ranting.
That's exactly the kind of 'intelligent discussion' of possibly
far-reaching core perl API changes which has happened in this
particular area so far: I hate it. Whoever disagrees with me doesn't
count. Ergo: It is, for all practical purposes, unused, and can be
removed.
RedHat won't provide 'Perl 5.20' for several years because they have
existing customers who use the current code and don't fancy 'a la mode
redevelopments' of software they've presumably been using for years.
Changing working code because tools go in and out of fashion
with this or that (vocal minority) 'developer community' doesn't make
any sense from a business standpoint. And J. Random Internet pseudonym
can rant and rave all he wants about that, it won't matter.
Insulting me is a lot easier but even this doesn't really accomplish
anyhing: It just highlights the lack of arguments in favor of the
change.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 27 May 2013 12:26:34 +0100
From: Rainer Weikusat <rweikusat@mssgmbh.com>
Subject: Re: a remark about 'stability'
Message-Id: <87k3mku0id.fsf@sapphire.mobileactivedefense.com>
Rainer Weikusat <rweikusat@mssgmbh.com> writes:
> Ben Morrow <ben@morrow.me.uk> writes:
>> Quoth Rainer Weikusat <rweikusat@mssgmbh.com>:
>>> ,----
>>> | I suspect that the CPAN-hostile environment which still promotes
>>> | CGI.pm as the state of the art in Perl overlaps strongly with the
>>> | older-is-better-stability-over-all enterprise Linux distribution
>>> | group, of which Red Hat for example won't provide Perl 5.20 for
>>> | several years,
>>> `----
>>>
>>> I also suspect that the fraction of people who have existing code they
>>> don't want to see broken because of 'political attempts' to promote
>>> this or that not-yet-abandoned wepp fremmwuerg strongly overlaps with
>>> the fraction of people who have existing code they ....
>>
>> Oh, do shut up. Nobody cares about your paranoid ranting.
>
> That's exactly the kind of 'intelligent discussion' of possibly
> far-reaching core perl API changes which has happened in this
> particular area so far: I hate it. Whoever disagrees with me doesn't
> count. Ergo: It is, for all practical purposes, unused, and can be
> removed.
Also, responding to obviously unfounded user concerns (assuming that
they are 'obviously unfounded' which is not obvious to me) by
accusing the people who voiced them of 'paranoid ranting' (which is
code language for "I know something you don't know but I won't tell
you because if I did, I couldn't slam you as ignorant imbecile in
public anymore") is exactly the kind of 'welcoming empathy' which
generates trust towards a 'developer community': They do whatever they
want. If this hurst or discomforts someone, he's obvioulsy one of 'the
wrong kind of people' and free to take all his silly problems on a
long walk over a short plank.
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 26 May 2013 18:54:39 -0700 (PDT)
From: johannes falcone <visphatesjava@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Would anyone teach me perl?
Message-Id: <a2d5a1bd-b032-4e0e-b2a5-ebdf4a801ead@googlegroups.com>
I would reccomend
1 the look modern perl free online
2 the book learning perl
3 install perl onto your computer
4 read slowly adn have fun running some examples
5 do the exercises adn slowly read and do the examples
6 check out CPAN for other needs
7 it helps if you have a project, like say you own small blog website, build it and add features or try to make it work with half the code by rewriting it
8 again go slowly and have fun
9 for bonus points install a fre unix like freeebsd or archlinux onto an old pc adn user perl on that
10 try cpanm and cpan-outdated from cpan for install perl modules, and try perlbrew for getting a newer perl
------------------------------
Date: 6 Apr 2001 21:33:47 GMT (Last modified)
From: Perl-Users-Request@ruby.oce.orst.edu (Perl-Users-Digest Admin)
Subject: Digest Administrivia (Last modified: 6 Apr 01)
Message-Id: <null>
Administrivia:
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End of Perl-Users Digest V11 Issue 3956
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