[32582] in Perl-Users-Digest
Perl-Users Digest, Issue: 3854 Volume: 11
daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (Perl-Users Digest)
Mon Jan 7 11:09:21 2013
Date: Mon, 7 Jan 2013 08:09:07 -0800 (PST)
From: Perl-Users Digest <Perl-Users-Request@ruby.OCE.ORST.EDU>
To: Perl-Users@ruby.OCE.ORST.EDU (Perl-Users Digest)
Perl-Users Digest Mon, 7 Jan 2013 Volume: 11 Number: 3854
Today's topics:
Re: Benefits for professional Perl programmers <jurgenex@hotmail.com>
Re: Benefits for professional Perl programmers <edgrsprj@ix.netcom.com>
Re: Benefits for professional Perl programmers <edgrsprj@ix.netcom.com>
Re: Benefits for professional Perl programmers <dave@invalid.invalid>
Re: Benefits for professional Perl programmers <kkeller-usenet@wombat.san-francisco.ca.us>
Re: CGI Question <edgrsprj@ix.netcom.com>
Re: CGI Question <rweikusat@mssgmbh.com>
Re: CGI Question <cwilbur@chromatico.net>
Re: CGI Question <kkeller-usenet@wombat.san-francisco.ca.us>
Re: CGI Question <dave@invalid.invalid>
Re: Date in CSV/TSV question <rweikusat@mssgmbh.com>
Re: Date in CSV/TSV question <derykus@gmail.com>
Re: Date in CSV/TSV question <nospam@lisse.NA>
Re: plural and singular syntax in Perl5, PHP and Perl6 (Seymour J.)
Digest Administrivia (Last modified: 6 Apr 01) (Perl-Users-Digest Admin)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Sat, 05 Jan 2013 16:25:25 -0800
From: Jürgen Exner <jurgenex@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Benefits for professional Perl programmers
Message-Id: <stghe8tfa92gkpa8fvqpf72tpfb18d2ve7@4ax.com>
Henry Law <news@lawshouse.org> wrote:
>On 02/01/13 15:57, E.D.G. wrote:
>> "E.D.G." <edgrsprj@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message
>> news:AKmdnasLqqSQkHnNnZ2dnUVZ_hWdnZ2d@earthlink.com...
>>
>> I now have three highly unique and I feel important Perl language
>> based computer programs running.
>
>Is this one of them? http://www.freewebz.com/eq-forecasting/302.zip
>I didn't know that you could write FORTRAN in Perl.
Looks very much like the output of some program generator or the
intermediate code of some compiler to me.
Are you saying someone actually wrote this manually line by line? Say it
ain't so.....
jue
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 5 Jan 2013 23:11:37 -0600
From: "E.D.G." <edgrsprj@ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Re: Benefits for professional Perl programmers
Message-Id: <O6OdneECELcamnTNnZ2dnUVZ_vqdnZ2d@earthlink.com>
"Henry Law" <news@lawshouse.org> wrote in message
news:EJedneiLCPJDE3XNnZ2dnUVZ8j2dnZ2d@giganews.com...
> And if it there's an error in your logic then good luck with finding the
> what's broken.
I have been working with professional computer programmers for ages.
And I have to keep telling them one thing that they simply don't seem to
understand regarding science efforts.
If there is an important problem that needs to get solved, what the
scientists need are accurate data that can show them how to solve the
problem. Quite often, a computer program is needed in the loop to generate
the data. And it doesn't matter a bit how nice the program code look, as
long as they generate the needed data.
Regardless of how they look and run, my Perl programs generate data
that are so unique that other scientists around the world who work as
government science advisors consult with me regarding those data. They have
been discussed on TV and in Internet news reports.
Once the scientists can see from the data that a particular approach
to solving some problem works then if computer programs are involved they
can bring in professional programmers who can convert the basic program
concepts into high quality code.
But that first step has to be to generate the original data any way
you can.
This bulletin board effort is needed at the moment because I can't
continue to circulate all of these data by E-mail or in Web reports to so
many people. It is too inefficient and takes too long. A specialized
bulletin board is the only answer.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 7 Jan 2013 02:14:26 -0600
From: "E.D.G." <edgrsprj@ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Re: Benefits for professional Perl programmers
Message-Id: <1LSdnWJ0M7ZAHnfNnZ2dnUVZ_qGdnZ2d@earthlink.com>
"E.D.G." <edgrsprj@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message
news:nMSdnWHNycFIxXnNnZ2dnUVZ_gqdnZ2d@earthlink.com...
Two topics are being discussed in this post.
1. The WWWBoard program modification effort
2. A proposed Internet computer based disaster mitigation program
THE WWWBOARD PROGRAM MODIFICATION EFFORT
The more advanced version of the WWWBoard bulletin board program is
running fairly well now on my PC using the Xampp program. And a significant
modifications effort is in progress.
I would be surprised if anyone else were interested in that program.
But if someone else is interested then they can try contacting me about the
modifications being made to the program.
There are quite a few minor modifications being made such as having
the program show posting times using UTC instead of local time. But there
are two significant modifications that have been made.
A. A password feature has been added. And other security features have
been or are being added. However, these are not modifications to the
original program Instead they are built into other independent programs
that link with the main WWWBoard program.
B. The original program is structured so that a number of internal
addresses have to be set before the program is uploaded to the Internet
Server computer. They tell it where to find the message directory and
various files etc. That structure is now somewhat different.
If Xampp is used to make changes to the program then those addresses
have to be set differently and changed before the program is uploaded to the
Internet Server. The way that I now have the program structured, those
addresses are set in a separate, small program that then calls the main
program. Separate versions of that small program can be stored on the
Internet Server computer and the PC. That then makes it possible to make
modifications to the main program and copy the program intact to the
Internet Server. No addresses have to be reset.
A PROPOSED INTERNET COMPUTER BASED DISASTER MITIGATION PROGRAM
Most of my free time is spent on efforts aimed at disaster
mitigation, improving health conditions for people around the world, and
getting world economies to work better. In connection with one of those
efforts, back in 2012 I sent a report to U.S. government officials
recommending that the U.S. and other governments and NGOs such as the United
Nations develop an Internet based disaster avoidance and response computer
program that could in a few seconds generate detailed plans for what various
organizations and civil defense workers needed to do in order to respond to
major disasters such as earthquakes, tornados, and aircraft crashes.
Such a program could provide even small communities with the types of
sophisticated disaster response resources that can presently be found only
in our largest cities. The far more rapid and coordinated responses to
various disasters would undoubtedly result in many lives being saved. And
since the program would largely involve the efforts of CGI computer
programmers it would likely provide employment opportunities for quite a few
professional programmers around the world.
So far, U.S. officials have not made any effort to develop the
program as far as I can tell. But as other efforts such as this bulletin
board effort get moving along I am planning to contact U.S. officials again
about that proposed disaster mitigation program and probably meet with a few
of them and discuss the subject.
Part of that planned effort would involve posting notes to various
computer programming Newsgroups letting people know about the effort. I can't
say when that will happen. But is on my planning board.
If anyone would like some information regarding that proposed
Internet based disaster mitigation program they can try contacting me.
There is a report available that discusses how the program would work.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 7 Jan 2013 09:46:50 +0000 (UTC)
From: "Dave Saville" <dave@invalid.invalid>
Subject: Re: Benefits for professional Perl programmers
Message-Id: <fV45K0OBJxbE-pn2-7Y0PtldBIQmm@localhost>
On Sun, 6 Jan 2013 05:11:37 UTC, "E.D.G." <edgrsprj@ix.netcom.com>
wrote:
<snip>
>
> This bulletin board effort is needed at the moment because I can't
> continue to circulate all of these data by E-mail or in Web reports to so
> many people. It is too inefficient and takes too long. A specialized
> bulletin board is the only answer.
>
Mailing list?
--
Regards
Dave Saville
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 7 Jan 2013 07:35:26 -0800
From: Keith Keller <kkeller-usenet@wombat.san-francisco.ca.us>
Subject: Re: Benefits for professional Perl programmers
Message-Id: <ui6rr9x4e9.ln2@goaway.wombat.san-francisco.ca.us>
On 2013-01-07, Dave Saville <dave@invalid.invalid> wrote:
> On Sun, 6 Jan 2013 05:11:37 UTC, "E.D.G." <edgrsprj@ix.netcom.com>
> wrote:
>
><snip>
>>
>> This bulletin board effort is needed at the moment because I can't
>> continue to circulate all of these data by E-mail or in Web reports to so
>> many people. It is too inefficient and takes too long. A specialized
>> bulletin board is the only answer.
>>
>
> Mailing list?
For once the OP might be correct. If it's a significant amount of data,
sharing via mailing list would be unpleasant.
--keith
--
kkeller-usenet@wombat.san-francisco.ca.us
(try just my userid to email me)
AOLSFAQ=http://www.therockgarden.ca/aolsfaq.txt
see X- headers for PGP signature information
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 5 Jan 2013 22:49:09 -0600
From: "E.D.G." <edgrsprj@ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Re: CGI Question
Message-Id: <U8CdndSleKXZn3TNnZ2dnUVZ_hGdnZ2d@earthlink.com>
"Henry Law" <news@lawshouse.org> wrote in message
news:J-qdnczdi5DXlHvNnZ2dnUVZ8t-dnZ2d@giganews.com...
> There are fifteen scripts on that page, one of which is WWWBoard, as Jim
> suggested. It is a message board, which is what you want.
To my amazement, that newer bulletin board program worked with Xampp
on first try.
So, I will be adding the password code to that program along with
some other modifications. And that should take care of things.
The newer version actually runs better. I thought that a problem I
had been encountering was with the Xampp program. But the problem
disappeared with the newer bulletin board program.
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 06 Jan 2013 16:30:04 +0000
From: Rainer Weikusat <rweikusat@mssgmbh.com>
Subject: Re: CGI Question
Message-Id: <87sj6enuk3.fsf@sapphire.mobileactivedefense.com>
"E.D.G." <edgrsprj@ix.netcom.com> writes:
> "Charlton Wilbur" <cwilbur@chromatico.net> wrote in message
> news:87zk0pzxdv.fsf@new.chromatico.net...
>
>> As I have pointed out repeatedly: it's not the half dozen people who are
>> authorized to use this software who are using it legitimately that you
>> have to worry about. It's the several hundred thousand hackers,
>
> With humor intended, one thing that helps here is that most of
> my Web site work is highly technical and extremely boring.
... and the computer it runs on is 'highly technical and very
useful'. Especially if someone else pays the bills and has to deal
with the fallout.
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 06 Jan 2013 17:24:30 -0500
From: Charlton Wilbur <cwilbur@chromatico.net>
Subject: Re: CGI Question
Message-Id: <87obh2ymox.fsf@new.chromatico.net>
>>>>> "EDG" == E D G <edgrsprj@ix.netcom.com> writes:
>> As I have pointed out repeatedly: it's not the half dozen people
>> who are authorized to use this software who are using it
>> legitimately that you have to worry about. It's the several
>> hundred thousand hackers,
EDG> With humor intended, one thing that helps here is that most of
EDG> my Web site work is highly technical and extremely boring.
Yes, well, most of your websites are full-on crackpottery; but the
content is completely irrelevant. The people most likely to exploit
your blisteringly obvious incompetence are not there for the content,
but for the flaws in your security.
Charlton
--
Charlton Wilbur
cwilbur@chromatico.net
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 6 Jan 2013 15:47:05 -0800
From: Keith Keller <kkeller-usenet@wombat.san-francisco.ca.us>
Subject: Re: CGI Question
Message-Id: <p0fpr9xi7u.ln2@goaway.wombat.san-francisco.ca.us>
On 2013-01-05, E.D.G. <edgrsprj@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
>
> With humor intended, one thing that helps here is that most of my Web
> site work is highly technical and extremely boring.
I think you should point your scientific collaborators to this thread,
so they can see what other Perl programmers think of your ability to
host their data safely.
--keith
--
kkeller-usenet@wombat.san-francisco.ca.us
(try just my userid to email me)
AOLSFAQ=http://www.therockgarden.ca/aolsfaq.txt
see X- headers for PGP signature information
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 7 Jan 2013 09:48:42 +0000 (UTC)
From: "Dave Saville" <dave@invalid.invalid>
Subject: Re: CGI Question
Message-Id: <fV45K0OBJxbE-pn2-XcYdYPNWtubm@localhost>
On Sat, 5 Jan 2013 19:16:49 UTC, "E.D.G." <edgrsprj@ix.netcom.com>
wrote:
<snip>
> You might be surprised by some of those security features. I doubt
> that there are any existing bulletin board programs that include code like
> that. For obvious reasons, I don't want to say too much about what those
> changes are.
>
If you think you have devised some super security feature you almost
cetainly have not.
--
Regards
Dave Saville
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 06 Jan 2013 17:12:35 +0000
From: Rainer Weikusat <rweikusat@mssgmbh.com>
Subject: Re: Date in CSV/TSV question
Message-Id: <87ehhynsl8.fsf@sapphire.mobileactivedefense.com>
"C.DeRykus" <derykus@gmail.com> writes:
> On Saturday, January 5, 2013 11:56:18 AM UTC-8, Rainer Weikusat wrote:
>> "C.DeRykus" <derykus@gmail.com> writes:
>>> On Wednesday, January 2, 2013 7:37:02 AM UTC-8, Rainer Weikusat wrote:
>>>> Dr Eberhard Lisse <nospam@lisse.NA> writes:
>>>>> I have a Tab Separated File of roughly 1000 likes with the first
>>>> fields like
>>>>
>>>> "05 Jan 2011" "DR"
>>>
[and need to translate that to]
>>
>> >>> 2011-01-07 "TFR"
>> >>> 2011-01-05 "DR"
[...]
>>> Maybe even shrink it to a long one-liner:
>>>
>>> perl -MDate::Manip -pi.bak -le 's{^"(\d+)\s+(\S+)\s+(\d+)"}
>>> {"$3-" . UnixDate("$1 $2 $3","%m") . "-$1"}e' infile
>> Considering the situation of the OP, he has a
>> 'zero line' solution because all code was written
>> by someone else.
>
> Hm, it sounded like he just a separate tab-delimited
> file he needed in a different format (ideal for a 1-
> liner.) The -i switch is especially useful for just
> this if the scenario allows it.
If you weren't using -i, it wasn't necessary to worry about creating a
backup file since the modified content would end up in a new file.
>
>> I don't know how his
>> for other people, however, I can type
>>
>> qw(Jan Feb Mar Apr May Jun Jul Aug Sep Oct Nov Dec)
>>
>
>> much faster than I can download anything from the net,
[...]
> Date::Manip though is well-maintained and extraordinarily
> useful. There are several other very good Date modules as well.
>
> Leveraging a small bit of module code for a tedious,
> surprisingly frequent little chore appeals to the
> very lazy. So, it's worth it IMO :)
It would call this a case of 'false laziness': You happen to be
familiar with a certain 'date munging' module. The OP wanted to modify
some 'structured text field' which happened to be a data. Ergo:
Clearly, a case for using the date manipulation code. But nothing in
the described problem is related to dates. A sequence of text of the
form
"number0 string number1"
is supposed to be changed such that it becomes
number1-number2-number0
that is, the quotes are supposed to be deleted (I didn't realize
that), the first and the last subfield should be transposed and the
middle string replaced by a two-digit number using a simple,
"well-known" static mapping from twelve three character strings to
numbers. This is exactly the kind of stuff which can be done very
easily with perl, ie
-------------
%months = map { $_, sprintf('%02d', ++$n); } qw(Jan Feb Mar Apr May Jun Jul Aug Sep Oct Nov Dec);
s/^"(\d+)\s+(\S+)\s+(\d+)"/$3-$months{$2}-$1/, print while (<>);
-------------
and telling the OP that he should instead download a couple of
thousands (probably, I've only counted the DM6 file which figures at
691 LOC) of lines of code consisting of 972(!) different files, most
of which are documented(!) as broken and are totally useless for the
problem at hand is not something I'd call a sound piece of technical
advice. It is probably possible to use a combine harvester instead of
a lawnmower but nobody in his right mind would ever do that or suggest
that others do it.
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 6 Jan 2013 12:43:50 -0800 (PST)
From: "C.DeRykus" <derykus@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Date in CSV/TSV question
Message-Id: <133dff71-efe3-495e-af2a-80f7006103bd@googlegroups.com>
On Sunday, January 6, 2013 9:12:35 AM UTC-8, Rainer Weikusat wrote:
> "C.DeRykus" <derykus@gmail.com> writes:
>
> > On Saturday, January 5, 2013 11:56:18 AM UTC-8, Rainer Weikusat wrote:
>
> >> "C.DeRykus" <derykus@gmail.com> writes:
>
> >>> On Wednesday, January 2, 2013 7:37:02 AM UTC-8, Rainer Weikusat wrote:
>
> >>>> Dr Eberhard Lisse <nospam@lisse.NA> writes:
>
> >>>>> I have a Tab Separated File of roughly 1000 likes with the first
>
> >>>> fields like
>
> >>>>
>
> >>>> "05 Jan 2011" "DR"
>
> >>>
>
>
>
> [and need to translate that to]
>
>
>
> >>
>
> >> >>> 2011-01-07 "TFR"
>
> >> >>> 2011-01-05 "DR"
>
>
>
> [...]
>
>
>
> >>> Maybe even shrink it to a long one-liner:
>
> >>>
>
> >>> perl -MDate::Manip -pi.bak -le 's{^"(\d+)\s+(\S+)\s+(\d+)"}
>
> >>> {"$3-" . UnixDate("$1 $2 $3","%m") . "-$1"}e' infile
>
> >> Considering the situation of the OP, he has a
>
> >> 'zero line' solution because all code was written
>
> >> by someone else.
>
> >
>
> > Hm, it sounded like he just a separate tab-delimited
>
> > file he needed in a different format (ideal for a 1-
>
> > liner.) The -i switch is especially useful for just
>
> > this if the scenario allows it.
>
>
>
> If you weren't using -i, it wasn't necessary to worry about creating a
>
> backup file since the modified content would end up in a new file.
>
>
-i is useful in case you're one of those whose
code never works the first time time though...
And you can always remove -i later.
> >
>
> >> I don't know how his
>
> >> for other people, however, I can type
>
> >>
>
> >> qw(Jan Feb Mar Apr May Jun Jul Aug Sep Oct Nov Dec)
>
> >>
>
> >
>
> >> much faster than I can download anything from the net,
>
>
>
> [...]
>
>
>
> > Date::Manip though is well-maintained and extraordinarily
>
> > useful. There are several other very good Date modules as well.
>
> >
>
> > Leveraging a small bit of module code for a tedious,
>
> > surprisingly frequent little chore appeals to the
>
> > very lazy. So, it's worth it IMO :)
>
>
>
> It would call this a case of 'false laziness': You happen to be
>
> familiar with a certain 'date munging' module. The OP wanted to modify
>
> some 'structured text field' which happened to be a data. Ergo:
>
> Clearly, a case for using the date manipulation code. But nothing in
>
> the described problem is related to dates. A sequence of text of the
>
> form
>
>
>
> "number0 string number1"
>
>
>
> is supposed to be changed such that it becomes
>
>
>
> number1-number2-number0
>
>
>
> that is, the quotes are supposed to be deleted (I didn't realize
>
> that), the first and the last subfield should be transposed and the
>
> middle string replaced by a two-digit number using a simple,
>
> "well-known" static mapping from twelve three character strings to
>
> numbers. This is exactly the kind of stuff which can be done very
>
> easily with perl, ie
>
>
>
> -------------
>
> %months = map { $_, sprintf('%02d', ++$n); } qw(Jan Feb Mar Apr May Jun Jul Aug Sep Oct Nov Dec);
>
>
>
> s/^"(\d+)\s+(\S+)\s+(\d+)"/$3-$months{$2}-$1/, print while (<>);
> ...
Sure, if you don't deal with this kind of
transform often, yet another incantation is
no big deal. And a simple regex can remain
blissfully ignorant of the fact that it's
dealing with dates. But then, if tweaks are
needed, it's "deja vu all over again". Can't
remember where to cut'n paste your old tweak..
No problem. Just wade in and watch out for typo's.
>
> and telling the OP that he should instead download a couple of
>
> thousands (probably, I've only counted the DM6 file which figures at
>
> 691 LOC) of lines of code consisting of 972(!) different files, most
>
> of which are documented(!) as broken and are totally useless for the
>
> problem at hand is not something I'd call a sound piece of technical
>
> advice.
I'd agree there are probably better solutions
that pulling in the bloat of Date::Manip. But
there are several good Date modules and it's
all about leveraging code already written and
working. Concern with "pulling in a big module"
is almost always FUD - especially speed concerns. Additionally, if the input format changes, and
those are dates after all, a good Date module
probably has a method to cinch the code tweaks.
One that's already written...
> It is probably possible to use a combine harvester > instead of a lawnmower but nobody in his right mind would ever do that or suggest
> that others do it.
Then why do we use a simple module function to
escape HTML for instance.. rather than rolling
our own? Sometimes a Swiss army knife - rather
than scrounging around for a small pen knife -
is worth the extra weight in a knapsack.
--
Charles DeRykus
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 07 Jan 2013 13:46:49 +0200
From: Dr Eberhard W Lisse <nospam@lisse.NA>
Subject: Re: Date in CSV/TSV question
Message-Id: <50EAB5A9.9060100@lisse.NA>
Ah, the Plonkers.
el
On 2013-01-05 23:49 , Henry Law wrote:
> On 05/01/13 21:33, Dr Eberhard Lisse wrote:
>> The OP is an elderly Obstetrician & Gynecologist, who occasionally needs
>> to Practically Extract and Report stuff.
>
> By the way, Meinheer Doctor, you might be interested to know that quite
> a lot of people who frequent this group won't have seen the article
> which you followed up here, having decided some time ago to block posts
> from its author at source.
>
> I leave it to you to determine the significance of this.
>
> PS I bet you're no more elderly than I am :-)
>
--
If you want to email me, replace nospam with el
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 05 Jan 2013 19:37:42 -0500
From: Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz <spamtrap@library.lspace.org.invalid>
Subject: Re: plural and singular syntax in Perl5, PHP and Perl6
Message-Id: <50e8c756$6$fuzhry+tra$mr2ice@news.patriot.net>
In <87ip7fpye5.fsf@sapphire.mobileactivedefense.com>, on 01/02/2013
at 12:22 PM, Rainer Weikusat <rweikusat@mssgmbh.com> said:
>Eh ... sorry, but it is exactly as he puts it: The original idea
>that $ is roughly the same as a 'singular article' while @ is a
>plural one, has been replaced by the more 'conventional'
>('conventional' here supposed to mean 'more like what other
>language designers also did' and absolutely not 'conventional' as
>'what people usually do' since 'people' usually don't) concept
>that namespaces of differently-typed variables are separate
Every time someone says "I don't believe in theories, another theory
dies. From the traffic in CLP, it appears that real people *don't*
find the Perl 5 use of sigils to be intuitive, and don't think of the
sigils as articles. Personally, I consider sigils to be a blemish on
both Perl 5 and Perl 6.
I regard Perl a a programming language; those who regard it as a shell
may be happier with the sigils than I am.
--
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz, SysProg and JOAT <http://patriot.net/~shmuel>
Unsolicited bulk E-mail subject to legal action. I reserve the
right to publicly post or ridicule any abusive E-mail. Reply to
domain Patriot dot net user shmuel+news to contact me. Do not
reply to spamtrap@library.lspace.org
------------------------------
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------------------------------
End of Perl-Users Digest V11 Issue 3854
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