[32551] in Perl-Users-Digest
Perl-Users Digest, Issue: 3817 Volume: 11
daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (Perl-Users Digest)
Sun Nov 11 16:10:50 2012
Date: Sun, 11 Nov 2012 13:09:07 -0800 (PST)
From: Perl-Users Digest <Perl-Users-Request@ruby.OCE.ORST.EDU>
To: Perl-Users@ruby.OCE.ORST.EDU (Perl-Users Digest)
Perl-Users Digest Sun, 11 Nov 2012 Volume: 11 Number: 3817
Today's topics:
"my $x;" in while or for block? <xtdkmqc@gmail.com>
Re: "my $x;" in while or for block? <ben@morrow.me.uk>
Re: "my $x;" in while or for block? <xtdkmqc@gmail.com>
Re: how does $#array work internally? <kst-u@mib.org>
Re: IO::Socket::INET hostname restrictions? (Seymour J.)
Re: lerning perl <hjp-usenet2@hjp.at>
Net::IDN::Encode Build procedure in external dir.? <tuxedo@mailinator.com>
Re: Server response validation? <hjp-usenet2@hjp.at>
Re: Server response validation? (Seymour J.)
Re: Server response validation? <tuxedo@mailinator.com>
Re: Why "Wide character in print"? <hjp-usenet2@hjp.at>
Re: Why "Wide character in print"? <hjp-usenet2@hjp.at>
Re: Why "Wide character in print"? <hjp-usenet2@hjp.at>
Re: Why "Wide character in print"? (Seymour J.)
Re: Why "Wide character in print"? <hjp-usenet2@hjp.at>
Digest Administrivia (Last modified: 6 Apr 01) (Perl-Users-Digest Admin)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Sat, 10 Nov 2012 17:22:39 -0600
From: Am Nym <xtdkmqc@gmail.com>
Subject: "my $x;" in while or for block?
Message-Id: <wrovcddrqkg.fsf@msgid.invalid.invalid>
Bad practice to declare a variable w/in a while or for block?
Is this OK?:
$ cat bar
#!/usr/bin/perl
use strict;
use warnings;
my %foo = (
bob => "green",
sue => "blue",
);
for (keys %foo)
{
my $x;
# acceptable?? (want $x to be undefined at start of each iteration)
printf "hi\n" unless(defined ($x));
$x = 1;
printf "HO\n" unless(defined ($x));
print "$_\n\n";
}
$ ./bar
hi
sue
hi
bob
--
thanks
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 10 Nov 2012 23:54:53 +0000
From: Ben Morrow <ben@morrow.me.uk>
Subject: Re: "my $x;" in while or for block?
Message-Id: <d363n9-q6v.ln1@anubis.morrow.me.uk>
Quoth Am Nym <xtdkmqc@gmail.com>:
> Bad practice to declare a variable w/in a while or for block?
No, absolutely not. You should declare your variables in the smallest
scope you can.
> Is this OK?:
>
> $ cat bar
> #!/usr/bin/perl
> use strict;
> use warnings;
>
> my %foo = (
> bob => "green",
> sue => "blue",
> );
>
> for (keys %foo)
> {
> my $x;
> # acceptable?? (want $x to be undefined at start of each iteration)
Yes, this is good practice.
Ben
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 10 Nov 2012 19:35:23 -0600
From: Am Nym <xtdkmqc@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: "my $x;" in while or for block?
Message-Id: <wror4o0syzo.fsf@msgid.invalid.invalid>
Ben Morrow <ben@morrow.me.uk> writes:
> Quoth Am Nym <xtdkmqc@gmail.com>:
>> Bad practice to declare a variable w/in a while or for block?
>
> No, absolutely not. You should declare your variables in the smallest
> scope you can.
Thanks, appreciate the help.
>> Is this OK?:
>>
>> $ cat bar
>> #!/usr/bin/perl
>> use strict;
>> use warnings;
>>
>> my %foo = (
>> bob => "green",
>> sue => "blue",
>> );
>>
>> for (keys %foo)
>> {
>> my $x;
>> # acceptable?? (want $x to be undefined at start of each iteration)
>
> Yes, this is good practice.
alright ;->
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 10 Nov 2012 21:47:14 -0800
From: Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org>
Subject: Re: how does $#array work internally?
Message-Id: <lnzk2oitct.fsf@nuthaus.mib.org>
Rainer Weikusat <rweikusat@mssgmbh.com> writes:
> Ben Morrow <ben@morrow.me.uk> writes:
>> Quoth Rainer Weikusat <rweikusat@mssgmbh.com>:
>>> Ben Morrow <ben@morrow.me.uk> writes:
>>> > Quoth Rainer Weikusat <rweikusat@mssgmbh.com>:
>>> >>
>>> >> In 1943, Joseph Goebbels held an infamous speech in the so-called
>>> >
>>> > Godwin. You lose.
>>>
>>> To quote myself: Everything can be proven with a suitable set of out
>>> of context quotes.
[snip]
>> ...which is why you should have picked a different analogy, or, better,
>> considered whether that sort of offensive hyperbole is appropriate in a
>> technical newsgroup.
>
> This was neither an analogy nor an 'offensive hyperbole':
[snip]
Rainer, consider this. You introduced a Nazi reference into a
discussion of how $#array and scalar(@array) work. Regardless of
whether it was an apt analogy or not, and regardless of the true
meaning of Godwin's Law and whether it applies in this case, did
you really expect it to advance the discussion?
--
Keith Thompson (The_Other_Keith) kst-u@mib.org <http://www.ghoti.net/~kst>
Will write code for food.
"We must do something. This is something. Therefore, we must do this."
-- Antony Jay and Jonathan Lynn, "Yes Minister"
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 11 Nov 2012 11:17:37 -0500
From: Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz <spamtrap@library.lspace.org.invalid>
Subject: Re: IO::Socket::INET hostname restrictions?
Message-Id: <509fcfa1$24$fuzhry+tra$mr2ice@news.patriot.net>
In <j5eas8-8dd.ln1@anubis.morrow.me.uk>, on 12/22/2011
at 01:36 AM, Ben Morrow <ben@morrow.me.uk> said:
>Now I've got confirmation this works properly I'll submit a bug
>report (when I get to it...). I'm afraid I don't know if or when
>this'll make its way into a release.
Have you submitted a bug report on this? If not, should I submit one
and cite this thread, noting that your patch worked, at least in OS/2?
Thanks.
--
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz, SysProg and JOAT <http://patriot.net/~shmuel>
Unsolicited bulk E-mail subject to legal action. I reserve the
right to publicly post or ridicule any abusive E-mail. Reply to
domain Patriot dot net user shmuel+news to contact me. Do not
reply to spamtrap@library.lspace.org
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 11 Nov 2012 13:39:34 +0100
From: "Peter J. Holzer" <hjp-usenet2@hjp.at>
Subject: Re: lerning perl
Message-Id: <slrnk9v746.6j5.hjp-usenet2@hrunkner.hjp.at>
On 2012-11-09 22:43, ccc31807 <cartercc@gmail.com> wrote:
> I've got a buddy who works for a defense contractor and bangs out user
> applications in VB for a living. He's written a ton of code over the
> years and does well financially. He's the only one in his unit who
> does what he does, and he performs an essential function for his unit.
> He's not a programmer,
This is a contradiction. If he "bangs out user applications" and has
"written a ton of code", he is a programmer. He may be a bad programmer
(I don't know him and haven't seen his code, so I couldn't say), but he
definitely is a programmer.
> I don't disagree that some people have natural talent that the rest of
> us can't match, but that doesn't mean that thos of us without the
> talent can't make a contribution.
I guess you haven't met the people I meant when I wrote that "some
people don't have the knack".
There are people who couldn't "bangs out applications" even if their
live depended on it. They can't get from a problem to an algorithm to
code. They can learn the elements of a programming language by heart but
they never see how to apply them (I've met people like that when I was
an instructor at the university: They failed the same course (with only
minutely varying assignments) semester after semester).
Then there's those who could do it (at least for simple problems) but
don't have what I would call a programmer's mind: They just prefer to do
the same routine job by hand every time instead of writing a simple
script.
These people don't become programmers.
Of course there are (huge) differences in talent among programmers, too:
There are really bad programmers, you can write code, but it's buggy and
clumsy and they take a long time to solve even simple problems.
And there's the geniuses who whip out complex, non-trivial software
systems over the weekend, with few bugs and elegant solutions.
Most of us are between those extremes, I think.
hp
--
_ | Peter J. Holzer | Fluch der elektronischen Textverarbeitung:
|_|_) | Sysadmin WSR | Man feilt solange an seinen Text um, bis
| | | hjp@hjp.at | die Satzbestandteile des Satzes nicht mehr
__/ | http://www.hjp.at/ | zusammenpat. -- Ralph Babel
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 11 Nov 2012 19:25:29 +0100
From: Tuxedo <tuxedo@mailinator.com>
Subject: Net::IDN::Encode Build procedure in external dir.?
Message-Id: <k7oqit$vim$1@news.albasani.net>
The Net::IDN::Encode module converts IDN domains into ASCII and vice versa:
http://search.cpan.org/~cfaerber/Net-IDN-Encode-2.003/lib/Net/IDN/Encode.pm
The documented build procedure is:
perl Build.PL
./Build
./Build test
./Build install
However, I'm not sure how to install this particular module in an non-root
owned directory, if at all possible. My installation procedure for modules
on typical Unix and Linux systems usually include a PREFIX argument, as in:
perl Makefile.PL PREFIX=/some/external/directory
As noted in Net::IDN::Encode's README at
http://cpansearch.perl.org/src/CFAERBER/Net-IDN-Encode-2.003/README the
module depends on Unicode::Stringprep, which has the same build procedure:
http://search.cpan.org/dist/Unicode-Stringprep/
Without quite expecting it to work, I tried: ...
perl Build.PL PREFIX=/some/external/directory
... but PREFIX is obviously unrecognised here, so for both modules the
installation failed at the last 'Build install' step with an expected
permission error:
ERROR: Can't create '/usr/lib/perl5/site_perl/5.14.2/Unicode'
mkdir /usr/lib/perl5/site_perl/5.14.2/Unicode: Permission denied at
/usr/lib/perl5/5.14.2/ExtUtils/Install.pm line 494
While I can usually install as root that is not always the case, so I
prefer to place most non-core modules in non-root directories.
Can anyone advise me how this module and other modules that may use similar
build procedures may be installed in a non-root directory?
Many thanks for any advise.
Tuxedo
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 11 Nov 2012 13:46:16 +0100
From: "Peter J. Holzer" <hjp-usenet2@hjp.at>
Subject: Re: Server response validation?
Message-Id: <slrnk9v7go.6j5.hjp-usenet2@hrunkner.hjp.at>
On 2012-11-10 19:48, Ben Morrow <ben@morrow.me.uk> wrote:
> Note that it doesn't appear to do any network tests, so a URI like
> http://example.com/foo/bar will pass.
% wget http://example.com/foo/bar
--2012-11-11 13:43:26-- http://example.com/foo/bar
Resolving example.com (example.com)... 2001:500:88:200::10, 192.0.43.10
Connecting to example.com (example.com)|2001:500:88:200::10|:80... connected.
HTTP request sent, awaiting response... 302 Found
Location: http://www.iana.org/domains/example/ [following]
--2012-11-11 13:43:27-- http://www.iana.org/domains/example/
Resolving www.iana.org (www.iana.org)... 2620:0:2d0:200::8, 192.0.32.8
Connecting to www.iana.org (www.iana.org)|2620:0:2d0:200::8|:80... connected.
HTTP request sent, awaiting response... 200 OK
Length: unspecified [text/html]
Saving to: `bar'
[ <=> ] 2,966 --.-K/s in 0.001s
2012-11-11 13:43:28 (3.39 MB/s) - `bar' saved [2966]
SCNR,
hp
--
_ | Peter J. Holzer | Fluch der elektronischen Textverarbeitung:
|_|_) | Sysadmin WSR | Man feilt solange an seinen Text um, bis
| | | hjp@hjp.at | die Satzbestandteile des Satzes nicht mehr
__/ | http://www.hjp.at/ | zusammenpat. -- Ralph Babel
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 11 Nov 2012 09:46:20 -0500
From: Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz <spamtrap@library.lspace.org.invalid>
Subject: Re: Server response validation?
Message-Id: <509fba3c$6$fuzhry+tra$mr2ice@news.patriot.net>
In <k7k6jr$148$1@news.albasani.net>, on 11/10/2012
at 01:20 AM, Tuxedo <tuxedo@mailinator.com> said:
>This may be a vague question but which perl network tools or
>procedures are good to determine if a hostname or IP exist
What does it mean for an IP to exist? Does a hostname exist if there
is an AAAA but no A? How do you want to treat CNAME?
You really need to nail down the specifics of the problem before you
look for a solution.
Have you looked at Regexp-Common or URI
<http://search.cpan.org/~gaas/URI-1.60/>?
--
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz, SysProg and JOAT <http://patriot.net/~shmuel>
Unsolicited bulk E-mail subject to legal action. I reserve the
right to publicly post or ridicule any abusive E-mail. Reply to
domain Patriot dot net user shmuel+news to contact me. Do not
reply to spamtrap@library.lspace.org
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 11 Nov 2012 20:33:36 +0100
From: Tuxedo <tuxedo@mailinator.com>
Subject: Re: Server response validation?
Message-Id: <k7ouih$ado$1@news.albasani.net>
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz wrote:
> In <k7k6jr$148$1@news.albasani.net>, on 11/10/2012
> at 01:20 AM, Tuxedo <tuxedo@mailinator.com> said:
>
> >This may be a vague question but which perl network tools or
> >procedures are good to determine if a hostname or IP exist
>
> What does it mean for an IP to exist? Does a hostname exist if there
> is an AAAA but no A? How do you want to treat CNAME?
I'm not quite sure.
> You really need to nail down the specifics of the problem before you
> look for a solution.
You are right, my questions were posted somewhat prematurely.
> Have you looked at Regexp-Common or URI
> <http://search.cpan.org/~gaas/URI-1.60/>?
Thanks, I'm looking into these. In the meantime, I found that
Data::Validate::URI appears to be working well in validating http and/or
https URI's in case they are the only things one need to do.
Tuxedo
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 11 Nov 2012 11:59:12 +0100
From: "Peter J. Holzer" <hjp-usenet2@hjp.at>
Subject: Re: Why "Wide character in print"?
Message-Id: <slrnk9v180.6j5.hjp-usenet2@hrunkner.hjp.at>
On 2012-11-06 23:26, Ben Morrow <ben@morrow.me.uk> wrote:
> Quoth "Peter J. Holzer" <hjp-usenet2@hjp.at>:
>> The main problem I have with UTF-16 is of a psychological nature: It is
>> extremely tempting to assume that it's a constant-width encoding because
>> "nobody uses those funky characters above U+FFFF anyway". Basically the
>> "all the world uses US-ASCII" trap reloaded.
>
> The main problem *I* have is the fact the surrogates are allocated out
> of the Unicode character space, so everyone doing anything with Unicode
> has to take account of them, even if they won't ever be touching UTF-16
> data. UTF-8 doesn't do that: it has magic bits indicating the
> variable-length sections, but they are kept away from the data bits
> representing the actual characters encoded.
>
> The same could have been done with UTF-16. If I'm reading the charts
> right, Unicode 1.1.5 (the last version before the change) allocated
> characters from 0000-9FA5 and from F900-FFFF, which leaves Axxx-Exxx
> free to represent multi-word characters. So, for instance, they could
> have used the following scheme: A word matching one of
>
> 0xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> 1001xxxxxxxxxxxx
> 1111xxxxxxxxxxxx
>
> is a single-word character. Other characters are represented as two
> words, encoded as
>
> 101ppppphhhhhhhh 110pppppllllllll
>
> which represents the 26-bit character
>
> pppppppppphhhhhhhhllllllll
That takes a huge chunk (25%, or even 37.5% if you include the ranges
which you have omitted above) out of the BMP. These codepoints would
either not be assigned at all (same as with UTF-16) or have to be
represented as four bytes. By comparison, the UTF-16 scheme reduces the
number of codepoints representable in 16 bits only by 3.1%. So there was
a tradeoff: Number of characters representable in 16 bits (63488 :
40960 or 49152) versus total number of representable characters (1112064
: 67108864). Clearly they thought 1112064 ought to be enough for
everyone and opted for a denser representation of common characters.
(That doesn't mean that they considered exactly your encoding: But
surely they considered several different encodings before settling on
what is now known as UTF-16.
> I know that at that point they were intending to extend the character
> set to 31 bits,
Yes, but certainly not with UTF-16: That encoding is limited to ~ 20
bits (codepoints U+0000 .. U+10FFFF).
> but IMHO reducing that to 26 would have been a lesser evil than
> stuffing a whole lot of encoding rubbish into the application- visible
> character set.
The only thing that's visible in the character set is that there is a
chunk of 2048 reserved code points which will never be assigned. How is
that different from other chunks of unassigned code points which may or
may not be assigned in the future?
hp
--
_ | Peter J. Holzer | Fluch der elektronischen Textverarbeitung:
|_|_) | Sysadmin WSR | Man feilt solange an seinen Text um, bis
| | | hjp@hjp.at | die Satzbestandteile des Satzes nicht mehr
__/ | http://www.hjp.at/ | zusammenpat. -- Ralph Babel
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 11 Nov 2012 12:58:54 +0100
From: "Peter J. Holzer" <hjp-usenet2@hjp.at>
Subject: Re: Why "Wide character in print"?
Message-Id: <slrnk9v4nu.6j5.hjp-usenet2@hrunkner.hjp.at>
On 2012-11-06 19:19, Eric Pozharski <whynot@pozharski.name> wrote:
> with <slrnk99ugj.r8t.hjp-usenet2@hrunkner.hjp.at> Peter J. Holzer wrote:
>> * At run time, the bytecode interpreter sees a string with the single
>> unicode character U+0411. How this character was represented in the
>> source code is irrelevant (and indeed, unknowable) to the byte code
>> interpreter at this stage. It just prints the decimal representation
>> of 0x0411, which happens to be 1041.
>
> Indeed, that renders perl somewhat lame. "They" could invent some
> property attached at will to any scalar that would reflect some
> byte-encoding somewhat connected with this scalar. Then make each other
> operation to pay attention to that property.
Well, "they" could do all kinds of shit (to borrow your use of
language), but why should they?
> Look, *literals* are converted to utf8 with UTF8 flag on. Maybe that's
> what made (and makes) qr// to work, as expected:
>
> {41393:56} [0:0]% perl -wlE '"фыва" =~ m{(\w)}; print $1'
>
> {42187:57} [0:0]% perl -Mutf8 -wle '"фыва" =~ m{(\w)}; print $1'
> Wide character in print at -e line 1.
> ф
> {42203:58} [0:0]% perl -Mencoding=utf8 -wle '"фыва" =~ m{(\w)}; print $1'
> ф
>
> For explanation what happens in 1st example see below. I may be wrong
> here, but I think, that in 2nd and 3rd example it all turns around $^H
> anyway.
You are thinking way too complicated. You don't need to know about $^H
to understand this. It's really very simple.
In the first example, you are dealing with a string of 8 bytes
"\xd1\x84\xd1\x8b\xd0\xb2\xd0\xb0". Depending on the version of Perl you
are using, either none of them are word characters, or several of them
are. You don't get a warning, so I assume you use a perl >= 5.12, where
“use feature unicode_strings” exists and is turned on by -E. In this
case, the first byte of your string is a word character (U+00D1 LATIN
CAPITAL LETTER N WITH TILDE), so the script prints "\xd1\x0a".
In the second and third example, you have a string of 4 characters
characters "\x{0444}\x{044b}\x{0432}\x{0430}", all of which are word
characters, so the script prints "\x{0444}\x{0a}" (which then gets
encoded by the I/O layers, but I've explained that already and won't
explain it again).
>>> In pre-all-utf8 times qr// was working on bytes without being told to
>>> behave otherwise. That's different now.
>> Yes, I think I wrote that before. I don't know what this has to do
>> with the behaviour of “use encoding”, except that historically, “use
>> encoding” was intended to convert old byte-oriented scripts to the
>> brave new unicode-centered world with minimal effort. (I don't think
>> it met that goal: Over the years I have encountered a lot of people
>> who had problems with “use encoding”, but I don't remember ever
>> reading from someone who successfully converted their scripts by
>> slapping “use encoding '...'” at the beginning.)
>
> I didn't convert anything. So I don't pretend you can count me in.
> Just now I've come to conclusion that C<use encoding 'utf8';> (that's
> what I've ever used) is effects of C<use utf8;> plus binmode() on
> streams minus posibility to make non us-ascii literals.
Congratulations on figuring that out (except the last one: You can make
non us-ascii literals with “use encoding” (that's one of the reasons why
it was written), the rules are just a bit different than with “use utf8”).
And of course I explicitely wrote that 10 days ago (and Ben possibly
wrote it before that but I'm not going to reread the whole thread).
> I've been always told that I *must* C<use utf8;> and than manually do
> binmode()s myself. Nobody ever explained why I can't do that with
> C<use encoding 'utf8';>.
I don't know who told you that and who didn't explain that. It wasn't
me, that's for sure ;-). I have explained (in this thread and various
others over the last 10 years) what use encoding does and why I think
it's a bad idea to use it. If you understand it and are aware of the
tradeoffs, feel free to use it. (And of course there is no reason to use
“use utf8” unless your *source code* contains non-ascii characters).
>> (but you do have to call it explicitely for STDERR, which IMNSHO is
>> inconsistent).
>
> Think about it. What terminal presents (in fonts) is locale dependent.
> That locale could be 'POSIX'. There's no 'POSIX.UTF-8'. And see below.
And how is this only relevant for STDERR but not for STDIN and STDOUT?
>>> Except the middle one (what I should think about), I think
>>> encoding.pm wins again.
>> You didn't understand why the the middle one produced this particular
>> result. So you were surprised by the way “use encoding” translates
>> string literals. I wasn't surprised. I knew how it works and explained
>> it to you in my followup.
>
> That's nice you brought that back. I've already figured it all out.
[...]
Uh, no. That was a completely different problem.
> So, 0xe0 has nothing to do in utf-8 output. xterm replaces it with
> replacement (what makes sense). In contrary, urxvt applies some weird
> heuristic (and it's really weird)
Yes, we've been through that already.
> As of your explanation. It's not precise. encoding.pm does what it
> always does. It doesn't mangle scalars itself, it *hints* Encode.pm
> (and friends) for decoding from encoding specified to utf8. (How
> Encode.pm comes into play is beyond my understanding for now.)
Maybe you should be less confident about stuff which is beyond your
understanding.
hp
--
_ | Peter J. Holzer | Fluch der elektronischen Textverarbeitung:
|_|_) | Sysadmin WSR | Man feilt solange an seinen Text um, bis
| | | hjp@hjp.at | die Satzbestandteile des Satzes nicht mehr
__/ | http://www.hjp.at/ | zusammenpaßt. -- Ralph Babel
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 11 Nov 2012 13:09:57 +0100
From: "Peter J. Holzer" <hjp-usenet2@hjp.at>
Subject: Re: Why "Wide character in print"?
Message-Id: <slrnk9v5cl.6j5.hjp-usenet2@hrunkner.hjp.at>
On 2012-11-07 01:52, Shmuel Metz <spamtrap@library.lspace.org.invalid> wrote:
> In <slrnk9gg63.84i.hjp-usenet2@hrunkner.hjp.at>, on 11/05/2012
> at 11:42 PM, "Peter J. Holzer" <hjp-usenet2@hjp.at> said:
>>Who is "we"? Before 5.12, you had to make the distinction. Strings
>>without the SvUTF8 flag simply didn't have Unicode semantics. Now
>>there is the unicode_strings feature, but
>
> 3. 5.8.7 is the last Perl release available on IBM's EBCDIC
> operating systems, e.g., z/OS.
True. But what does that have to do with the paragraph you quoted?
> I don't know whether there is a similar issue with Unisys.
It is my understanding that modern perl versions don't work on any
EBCDIC-based platform, so that would include Unisys[1], HP/MPE and other
EBCDIC-based platforms. Especially since these platforms are quite dead,
unlike z/OS which is still maintained.
hp
[1] Not all Unisys systems used EBCDIC. I think at least the 1100 series
used ASCII.
--
_ | Peter J. Holzer | Fluch der elektronischen Textverarbeitung:
|_|_) | Sysadmin WSR | Man feilt solange an seinen Text um, bis
| | | hjp@hjp.at | die Satzbestandteile des Satzes nicht mehr
__/ | http://www.hjp.at/ | zusammenpat. -- Ralph Babel
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 11 Nov 2012 09:44:21 -0500
From: Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz <spamtrap@library.lspace.org.invalid>
Subject: Re: Why "Wide character in print"?
Message-Id: <509fb9c5$23$fuzhry+tra$mr2ice@news.patriot.net>
In <slrnk9v5cl.6j5.hjp-usenet2@hrunkner.hjp.at>, on 11/11/2012
at 01:09 PM, "Peter J. Holzer" <hjp-usenet2@hjp.at> said:
>True. But what does that have to do with the paragraph you quoted?
That paragraph appears to suggest upgrading to 5.12; I was pointing
out that that is not always an option.
>unlike z/OS which is still maintained.
As are z/TPF, z/VM, z/VSE and iOS[1].
>[1] Not all Unisys systems used EBCDIC. I think at least the 1100
> series used ASCII.
I don't know whether it was ASCII or FieldData, but definitely not
EBCDIC. AFAIK the only Unisys systems to use EBCDIC are the ones
descended from the Burroughs B6500 with MCP.
[1] Or whatever the current name is.
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------------------------------
Date: Sun, 11 Nov 2012 21:26:24 +0100
From: "Peter J. Holzer" <hjp-usenet2@hjp.at>
Subject: Re: Why "Wide character in print"?
Message-Id: <slrnka02fg.ood.hjp-usenet2@hrunkner.hjp.at>
On 2012-11-11 14:44, Shmuel Metz <spamtrap@library.lspace.org.invalid> wrote:
> In <slrnk9v5cl.6j5.hjp-usenet2@hrunkner.hjp.at>, on 11/11/2012
> at 01:09 PM, "Peter J. Holzer" <hjp-usenet2@hjp.at> said:
>
>>True. But what does that have to do with the paragraph you quoted?
>
> That paragraph appears to suggest upgrading to 5.12;
No that wasn't the intention. I was questioning Ben's assertion that
"we've been trying to stop people making this mistake since 5.8.0",
because before 5.12.0 it wasn't a mistake, it was a correct
understanding of how perl/Perl worked.
Unless of course by "people" he didn't mean Perl programmers but the
p5p team and and by "stop making this mistake" he meant "introducing the
unicode_strings feature and including it in 'use v5.12'". It is indeed
possible that the so-called "Unicode bug" was identified shortly after
5.8.0 and that Ben and others were trying to fix it since then.
> I was pointing out that that is not always an option.
I mentioned that it wasn't an option for me just a few lines further
down. Of course in my case "not an option" just means "more hassle than
it's worth", not "impossible", I could install and maintain a current
Perl version on the 40+ servers I administer. But part of the appeal of
Perl is that it's part of the normal Linux infrastructure. Rolling my
own subverts that.
So, I hope I'll get rid of perl 5.8.x in 2017 (when the support for RHEL
5.x ends) and of perl 5.10.x in 2020 (EOL for RHEL 6.x). Then I can
write "use v5.12" into my scripts and enjoy a world without the Unicode
bug.
hp
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__/ | http://www.hjp.at/ | zusammenpat. -- Ralph Babel
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