[32485] in Perl-Users-Digest
Perl-Users Digest, Issue: 3750 Volume: 11
daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (Perl-Users Digest)
Sat Aug 4 00:09:19 2012
Date: Fri, 3 Aug 2012 21:09:05 -0700 (PDT)
From: Perl-Users Digest <Perl-Users-Request@ruby.OCE.ORST.EDU>
To: Perl-Users@ruby.OCE.ORST.EDU (Perl-Users Digest)
Perl-Users Digest Fri, 3 Aug 2012 Volume: 11 Number: 3750
Today's topics:
Re: Man, has this newsgroup shrunk. Why? Where gone t <edgrsprj@ix.netcom.com>
Re: Man, has this newsgroup shrunk. Why? Where gone t <rweikusat@mssgmbh.com>
Re: Man, has this newsgroup shrunk. Why? Where gone t <news@lawshouse.org>
Re: Man, has this newsgroup shrunk. Why? Where gone t <edgrsprj@ix.netcom.com>
Re: Man, has this newsgroup shrunk. Why? Where gone t <news@lawshouse.org>
Re: Man, has this newsgroup shrunk. Why? Where gone t <ac.russell@live.com>
Re: Man, has this newsgroup shrunk. Why? Where gone t <kst-u@mib.org>
Re: Man, has this newsgroup shrunk. Why? Where gone t <rweikusat@mssgmbh.com>
Re: Man, has this newsgroup shrunk. Why? Where gone t <jurgenex@hotmail.com>
Re: Time Question <edgrsprj@ix.netcom.com>
Re: Time Question <edgrsprj@ix.netcom.com>
Re: Time Question <netnews@invalid.com>
Re: Time Question charley%pulsenet.com@gtempaccount.com
Re: Time Question (Mark Kramer)
Re: Time Question (Mark Kramer)
Re: Time Question (Mark Kramer)
Re: using a help file to populate ftp values <rweikusat@mssgmbh.com>
Re: using a help file to populate ftp values <cal@example.invalid>
Digest Administrivia (Last modified: 6 Apr 01) (Perl-Users-Digest Admin)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Fri, 3 Aug 2012 07:01:09 -0500
From: "E.D.G." <edgrsprj@ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Re: Man, has this newsgroup shrunk. Why? Where gone to?
Message-Id: <IsqdnVfKCfUcIIbNnZ2dnUVZ_h6dnZ2d@earthlink.com>
"David Combs" <dkcombs@panix.com> wrote in message
news:jv9j56$im6$1@panix1.panix.com...
> It's fairly obvious that this group has really shrunk over
> the last year or so.
>
> So, what's up?
At the risk of getting some Perl programmers upset, I myself have
repeatedly been advised to switch to Python for a programming language. For
one reason, there is apparently a sophisticated graphics package that can be
used with it.
But, most of my lengthy Windows compatible programs have been written
using a combination of Perl and Gnuplot. And I don't know if Python can do
all of the things that Perl can do such as run on probably most Internet
Server computers.
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 03 Aug 2012 13:41:51 +0100
From: Rainer Weikusat <rweikusat@mssgmbh.com>
Subject: Re: Man, has this newsgroup shrunk. Why? Where gone to?
Message-Id: <87r4rodu5s.fsf@sapphire.mobileactivedefense.com>
"E.D.G." <edgrsprj@ix.netcom.com> writes:
> "David Combs" <dkcombs@panix.com> wrote in message
> news:jv9j56$im6$1@panix1.panix.com...
>> It's fairly obvious that this group has really shrunk over
>> the last year or so.
>>
>> So, what's up?
>
> At the risk of getting some Perl programmers upset, I myself
> have repeatedly been advised to switch to Python for a programming
> language. For one reason, there is apparently a sophisticated
> graphics package that can be used with it.
Perl has grown out of a UNIX(*) heritage and to someone not familiar
with that, a lot of things in it which actually make perfect sense in
certain situations (Eg, treating subroutine arguments as anonymous
'positional parameters'. Because of this, subroutines can invoke other
subroutines with the arguments passed to themselves, possibly after
adding some, without any kind of 'special insider knowledge' about
these arguments or about the expectations of the subroutine the call
is forwarded to) will just 'look outlandish'. And this means the
immediate, emotional reaction to that is the same emotional reaction
to anything that's unfamiliar, namely, vitriolous rejection.
Python, OTOH, is the programming language whose reference manual
starts with (or used to start with) the sentence 'Unlike the shell,
Python is a real programming language'. This suggests that 'the shell'
the author is thinking of is actually the MS-DOG command interpreter
and that he never really bothered to venture beyond that: It's called
'a shell'. Ergo, it is a technically substandard abomination and
knowing one such 'shell' is really enough of that for several
lifetimes. The cultural conventions (and prejudices) embodied in
Python are much more compatible to a mind whose idea of how computers
ought to work (and how they ought to be programmed) has been shaped by
'a Microsoft-centric environment' ...
NB: I've never read past the paraphrased statement and unless forced
to, I never will ('forced to' meaning 'I have to maintain some
non-trivial body of Python code').
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 03 Aug 2012 14:02:23 +0100
From: Henry Law <news@lawshouse.org>
Subject: Re: Man, has this newsgroup shrunk. Why? Where gone to?
Message-Id: <iPqdnSAZz-9CVobNnZ2dnUVZ8mGdnZ2d@giganews.com>
On 31/07/12 23:38, Tim McDaniel wrote:
>
> Google shovelling them into "Google Groups" and having an increasingly
> lousy search system and interface didn't help.
>
I agree. Also the move away from email amongst GenX. It was convenient
(is still convenient) to get discussions in the same way as you get
email, i.e. through the mail/news client; when you move to getting your
mail from Hotmail or Gmail (or even Facebook, which is still email in
concept) then a newsreader becomes a problem and not an answer.
--
Henry Law Manchester, England
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 3 Aug 2012 08:58:35 -0500
From: "E.D.G." <edgrsprj@ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Re: Man, has this newsgroup shrunk. Why? Where gone to?
Message-Id: <mJednfPjzeiYRIbNnZ2dnUVZ_j2dnZ2d@earthlink.com>
"Rainer Weikusat" <rweikusat@mssgmbh.com> wrote in message
news:87r4rodu5s.fsf@sapphire.mobileactivedefense.com...
> Perl has grown out of a UNIX(*) heritage and to someone not familiar
> with that, a lot of things in it which actually make perfect sense in
> certain situations (Eg, treating subroutine arguments as anonymous
> 'positional parameters'.
A personal friend of mine has been working full-time as a programmer
and Web site developer for years for a major university. She does all of
her programming for the various university faculty members etc. using
Python. And although I have not taken a close look at Python, I have a high
regard for her work and expect that the university would not be letting her
use that language for their important projects unless they approved of it.
However, I am not trying to get people to use Python but am just stating
that there are some people who like it.
There are two things that I myself don't like regarding Perl.
First, in my opinion, you generally need to be an intermediate to
expert computer programmer to start using the free download version of Perl
made available from ActiveState. I myself had a very difficult time moving
from Fortran and Basic to Perl. For example, it took me several years to
learn how to create .exe files from a .pl file. With the Perl version I was
using, large numbers of modules had to be downloaded and linked to Perl
before the program would do anything. Then it was necessary to determine
exactly how to configure the command that creates the .exe files.
Once all of that is learned it is then extremely easy to create the
.exe files though the ones that I myself use are quite large compared with
the .pl files.
If there had been simple, do this, do this, and then do that
instructions for how to create those .exe files it would not have taken
several years for me to determine what needed to be done.
Perhaps newer versions of Perl are easier to work with if you are new
to the language. There are of course books that you can purchase that
explain how to write programs using Perl. But I looked at several in
bookstores and decided that they were too difficult to understand. And
anyway, part of the reason for having a free downloadable program is to make
it possible to use it without having to purchase anything.
Second, Perl would probably be a lot more attractive to quite a few
people if it had a powerful graphics package such as Gnuplot that could be
linked with it as a module. And I stated that a number of times over the
years in posts to both this Newsgroup and the Gnuplot Newsgroup.
I myself use both a "Pipe" and data files at the same time to send
information from Perl to Gnuplot. But it was difficult for me to learn how
to do that. And there are timing problems between the two programs that
require special attention.
It would be much easier if either the Perl or Gnuplot programmers
created a version of Gnuplot that would link with Perl as a module. Then
simple "Plot" commands could be used directly from Perl. And there would
not be any timing problems. Both languages are written using C++ code if I
remember correctly. So merging them like that should not require too much
effort. And that would certainly provide Gnuplot with a lot more power. I
don't think that Gnuplot can use arrays very easily if at all.
On the positive side, I myself like Perl because if you are willing
to spend some time learning how to perform some task, Perl can then do just
about anything that you would like.
One of my own most important applications is what might be referred
to as a "virtual operating system" that I created and use with the Windows
version of Perl. Perl can read keyboard keys and also send keystrokes to
Windows as if they were entered on the keyboard. And that particular
program makes it extremely easy to do repetitive things such as visit any
number of Internet Web sites by pressing combinations of two keys instead of
having to enter entire Web addresses.
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 03 Aug 2012 15:19:32 +0100
From: Henry Law <news@lawshouse.org>
Subject: Re: Man, has this newsgroup shrunk. Why? Where gone to?
Message-Id: <MLudnbpiSoRpQIbNnZ2dnUVZ8kGdnZ2d@giganews.com>
On 03/08/12 14:58, E.D.G. wrote:
> First, in my opinion, you generally need to be an intermediate to
> expert computer programmer to start using the free download version of
> Perl made available from ActiveState. I myself had a very difficult
> time moving from Fortran and Basic to Perl. For example, it took me
> several years to learn how to create .exe files from a .pl file.
I'm not aware of _any_ version of Perl that is anything other than free.
And moving on from that you should be aware that you're taking a very
Windows-centric view of things.
Most Perl programmers in the Windows environment don't turn their .pl
files into .exe; they just use them as input to Perl itself. Certainly
within the non-Windows environments that's the rule. AIUI you have to
pay for the ActiveState tool that makes .exe files! And I bet that the
.exe files you've created _all_ have the Perl executable, as well as the
code of all the modules, in every .exe file; it's no wonder they're
large. Perl itself takes a much more traditional (and IMO professional)
approach with shared libraries and shared executables.
> large numbers of modules had to be downloaded and linked to Perl before the program would do anything
You can look at that feature in two ways: because Perl is extensible
you're not restricted just to what the language can do. And you don't
need to install/distribute things that you don't use. I admit that if
you take over someone else's code then installing all the pre-req
modules (if they're not standard supplied ones) can take a good while;
but taking over someone else's code is never easy.
> graphics package ... that could be linked with it as a module
I wonder whether you've got the wrong idea here, as that's the second
time you've written "linked". When you use a Perl module you call its
subroutines as Perl subroutines, or you instantiate them as Perl
objects. That's the interface; no "linking" is required, in the
traditional object code sense (unless whatever you're doing to make .exe
files includes that operation).
Perl does have access to at least one graphics package, called Tk.
Let's not argue whether or not it's "powerful" or whether it's easy to
use: I'm taking it as an example. In order to use it -- and any other
graphics package that might be available -- your just "use Tk;" and then
off you go creating its objects and invoking its methods. You can even
extend a package by over-riding some bits of it with your own code.
--
Henry Law Manchester, England
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 03 Aug 2012 13:53:46 -0400
From: Adam Russell <ac.russell@live.com>
Subject: Re: Man, has this newsgroup shrunk. Why? Where gone to?
Message-Id: <e099e$501c102a$813f0835$10987@news.eurofeeds.com>
On 8/3/12 9:58 AM, E.D.G. wrote:
[snip]
> Second, Perl would probably be a lot more attractive to quite a
> few people if it had a powerful graphics package such as Gnuplot that
> could be linked with it as a module. And I stated that a number of
> times over the years in posts to both this Newsgroup and the Gnuplot
> Newsgroup.
>
> I myself use both a "Pipe" and data files at the same time to
> send information from Perl to Gnuplot. But it was difficult for me to
> learn how to do that. And there are timing problems between the two
> programs that require special attention.
>
> It would be much easier if either the Perl or Gnuplot programmers
> created a version of Gnuplot that would link with Perl as a module.
> Then simple "Plot" commands could be used directly from Perl. And there
> would not be any timing problems. Both languages are written using C++
> code if I remember correctly. So merging them like that should not
> require too much effort. And that would certainly provide Gnuplot with
> a lot more power. I don't think that Gnuplot can use arrays very easily
> if at all.
[snip]
I use Gnuplot from Perl quite a bit and think you may be doing things
the hard way.
Check out the module Chart::Gnuplot
http://search.cpan.org/~kwmak/Chart-Gnuplot-0.17/lib/Chart/Gnuplot.pm
"Under the hood" it communicates to Gnuplot much the same way that you
are doing so manually. However, to the programmer, it provides a nice
Perl-ish interface. There are other Gnuplot modules in cpan but this is
the best in my opinion. (Disclaimer: I have submitted patches to this
module ;) ).
Also, if you haven't already, you may want to look at PDL (Perl Data
Language) http://pdl.perl.org/
With PDL you may find the sort of environment you want. Start with the
core module documentation and see if it matches your needs.
http://pdl.perl.org/?docs=Modules&title=PDL::Modules
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 03 Aug 2012 11:45:44 -0700
From: Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org>
Subject: Re: Man, has this newsgroup shrunk. Why? Where gone to?
Message-Id: <ln7gtf24rr.fsf@nuthaus.mib.org>
"E.D.G." <edgrsprj@ix.netcom.com> writes:
[...]
> It would be much easier if either the Perl or Gnuplot programmers
> created a version of Gnuplot that would link with Perl as a module. Then
> simple "Plot" commands could be used directly from Perl. And there would
> not be any timing problems.
http://search.cpan.org/search?query=gnuplot&mode=all
> Both languages are written using C++ code if I
> remember correctly.
Perl and Gnuplot are both implemented in C, not C++.
(Note that Gnuplot is not related to the GNU project.)
--
Keith Thompson (The_Other_Keith) kst-u@mib.org <http://www.ghoti.net/~kst>
Will write code for food.
"We must do something. This is something. Therefore, we must do this."
-- Antony Jay and Jonathan Lynn, "Yes Minister"
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 03 Aug 2012 23:23:34 +0100
From: Rainer Weikusat <rweikusat@mssgmbh.com>
Subject: Re: Man, has this newsgroup shrunk. Why? Where gone to?
Message-Id: <87r4rnipi1.fsf@sapphire.mobileactivedefense.com>
"E.D.G." <edgrsprj@ix.netcom.com> writes:
[...]
>> Most Perl programmers in the Windows environment don't turn their
>> .pl files into .exe; they just use them as input to Perl itself.
>
> Most of my Perl based scientific programs are being given to
> people around the world for free through Web site downloads. And so
> they need to be .exe programs. Otherwise people would need to install
> Perl in order for them to run.
The obvious benefit would be that these people will then be able to
change the code to suit their needs better.
[...]
> Finally,
>
> Our world's evolutionary process has a basic law: "Evolve or
> perish."
Actually, the basic law is rather "don't evolve too much, lest you
will perish once the circumstances you're so well adapted to
change".
> The more attractive a computer language is to the largest number of
> potential users, the more likely that it will survive and prosper.
As someone from 19th century Germany nicely put it: Vox populi. vox
Rindvieh ...
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 03 Aug 2012 16:39:59 -0700
From: Jürgen Exner <jurgenex@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Man, has this newsgroup shrunk. Why? Where gone to?
Message-Id: <9vno189dejls4uo571k77hlii5rqa1sigh@4ax.com>
Henry Law <news@lawshouse.org> wrote:
>On 03/08/12 14:58, E.D.G. wrote:
>
>> First, in my opinion, you generally need to be an intermediate to
>> expert computer programmer to start using the free download version of
>> Perl made available from ActiveState.
You are welcome to your opinion. Please note that most people are likely
to not share your opinion.
>> I myself had a very difficult
>> time moving from Fortran and Basic to Perl. For example, it took me
>> several years to learn how to create .exe files from a .pl file.
Why would you possibly want to do this? Of course Perl is an interpreted
language. If you insist on compiling it, then of course you are inviting
a lot of difficulties.
>> large numbers of modules had to be downloaded and linked to Perl before the program would do anything
???
What program is "the program"? In let's say C you already need to
include modules to do a primitive "Hello World" program.
Perl in comparison is comes with _a_lot_ of functionality already built
in to the language core.
jue
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 3 Aug 2012 06:38:01 -0500
From: "E.D.G." <edgrsprj@ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Re: Time Question
Message-Id: <jOedncHu7YW5JYbNnZ2dnUVZ_sqdnZ2d@earthlink.com>
"Wolf Behrenhoff" <NoSpamPleaseButThisIsValid3@gmx.net> wrote in message
news:50195ab3$0$6555$9b4e6d93@newsspool4.arcor-online.net...
> perldoc Date::Calc
Thanks for the reference.
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 3 Aug 2012 06:50:45 -0500
From: "E.D.G." <edgrsprj@ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Re: Time Question
Message-Id: <5IOdnYioVt2SJobNnZ2dnUVZ_vudnZ2d@earthlink.com>
"Ben Morrow" <ben@morrow.me.uk> wrote in message
news:1hdoe9-u151.ln1@anubis.morrow.me.uk...
>
> IMHO it's better to just go with DateTime.
Thanks for the information.
I myself just created two Perl subroutines from some True Basic code
that will also do this. The first translates dates into a single number
that can be added to other numbers that have that format. And the final
number can then be decoded back to year and month etc. by the second
subroutine. Together they represent about 50 lines of code.
I am planning to try to post that code to this Newsgroup after the
subroutines have been running for a while and they look like they are not
making any mistakes. However, I learned how to program years ago using
Fortran and Basic. So, the code will probably not look very attractive to
Perl programmers. People can make any adjustments they wish to the code
before using it.
However, if those Perl routines people mentioned are easier to use
then I am planning to use them instead for my own applications.
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 03 Aug 2012 09:22:20 -0700
From: HASM <netnews@invalid.com>
Subject: Re: Time Question
Message-Id: <87lihwq72b.fsf@127.0.0.1>
Wolf Behrenhoff <NoSpamPleaseButThisIsValid3@gmx.net> writes:
>> The goal is to be able to tell what the UTC date and time are (ex.
>> 2012/08/01 12:34:56) that is say 130 days and 4 hours ahead of some date
>> such as today or 30 days from now.
> perldoc Date::Calc
or Date::Manip
-- HASM
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 3 Aug 2012 10:20:26 -0700 (PDT)
From: charley%pulsenet.com@gtempaccount.com
Subject: Re: Time Question
Message-Id: <246cb1ef-4dda-425c-8bc7-f1be1e5e503b@googlegroups.com>
On Friday, August 3, 2012 7:50:45 AM UTC-4, E.D.G. wrote:
> "Ben Morrow" <ben<at>morrow.me.uk> wrote in message
>
> news:1hdoe9-u151.ln1<at>anubis.morrow.me.uk...
>
> >
>
> > IMHO it's better to just go with DateTime.
>
>
>
> Thanks for the information.
>
>
>
> I myself just created two Perl subroutines from some True Basic code
>
> that will also do this. The first translates dates into a single number
>
> that can be added to other numbers that have that format. And the final
>
> number can then be decoded back to year and month etc. by the second
>
> subroutine. Together they represent about 50 lines of code.
>
>
>
> I am planning to try to post that code to this Newsgroup after the
>
> subroutines have been running for a while and they look like they are not
>
> making any mistakes. However, I learned how to program years ago using
>
> Fortran and Basic. So, the code will probably not look very attractive to
>
> Perl programmers. People can make any adjustments they wish to the code
>
> before using it.
>
>
>
> However, if those Perl routines people mentioned are easier to use
>
> then I am planning to use them instead for my own applications.
Here is a snippit using DateTime
use DateTime;
my $now = DateTime->now;
my $future = $now->clone->add(days => 130, hours => 4);
print $now, "\n";
print $future, "\n";
Chris
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 3 Aug 2012 21:35:15 +0000 (UTC)
From: c28f62@TheWorld.com (Mark Kramer)
Subject: Re: Time Question
Message-Id: <jvhg6j$j3k$1@pcls6.std.com>
In article <JsednYi0XZ8Oy4TNnZ2dnUVZ_tCdnZ2d@earthlink.com>,
E.D.G. <edgrsprj@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
>The goal is to be able to tell what the UTC date and time are (ex.
>2012/08/01 12:34:56) that is say 130 days and 4 hours ahead of some date
>such as today or 30 days from now.
You mean like:
$now = time;
$before = $now - 130*86440 - 4*60;
print "now is " . scalar(gmtime($now)) . "\n";
print "then was " . scalar(gmtime($before)) . "\n";
$later = $now + 30* 86440;
print "later will be " . scalar(gmtime($later)) . "\n";
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 3 Aug 2012 21:38:27 +0000 (UTC)
From: c28f62@TheWorld.com (Mark Kramer)
Subject: Re: Time Question
Message-Id: <jvhgcj$mtb$1@pcls6.std.com>
In article <5IOdnYioVt2SJobNnZ2dnUVZ_vudnZ2d@earthlink.com>,
E.D.G. <edgrsprj@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
> I myself just created two Perl subroutines from some True Basic code
>that will also do this. The first translates dates into a single number
>that can be added to other numbers that have that format.
Like timelocal and timegm?
require "timelocal.pl";
>And the final
>number can then be decoded back to year and month etc. by the second
>subroutine. Together they represent about 50 lines of code.
Like localtime and gmtime?
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 3 Aug 2012 21:41:05 +0000 (UTC)
From: c28f62@TheWorld.com (Mark Kramer)
Subject: Re: Time Question
Message-Id: <jvhghh$n26$1@pcls6.std.com>
In article <jvhg6j$j3k$1@pcls6.std.com>,
Mark Kramer <c28f62@TheWorld.com> wrote:
>$before = $now - 130*86440 - 4*60;
Make that:
$before = $now - 130*24*60*60 - 4*60*60;
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 03 Aug 2012 13:23:05 +0100
From: Rainer Weikusat <rweikusat@mssgmbh.com>
Subject: Re: using a help file to populate ftp values
Message-Id: <87vch0dv12.fsf@sapphire.mobileactivedefense.com>
tmcd@panix.com (Tim McDaniel) writes:
[...]
> English prepositions and conjunctions can be tricky.
> s/Except if/Unless/. That is,
That's a Germanism. My bad. The German equivalent of 'unless' is
'ausser wenn' and the/a literal translation of that is 'except if'
(Possibly, 'except when'. So far, I haven't managed to figure out the
precise differences of if, whether and when in conditional clause :-).
OTOH, this has offered the Wilbur(?) guy a nice opportunity for some
additional rants. After all, my English is decidedly homegrown and
this comes accross as 'more or less retarded' to a native speaker who
doesn't really consider the circumstances (can't even talk =>
imbecile).
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 03 Aug 2012 21:50:11 -0600
From: Cal Dershowitz <cal@example.invalid>
Subject: Re: using a help file to populate ftp values
Message-Id: <JvOdnTeWk-FpBoHNnZ2dnUVZ_uKdnZ2d@supernews.com>
On 08/03/2012 06:23 AM, Rainer Weikusat wrote:
> tmcd@panix.com (Tim McDaniel) writes:
>
> [...]
>
>> English prepositions and conjunctions can be tricky.
>> s/Except if/Unless/. That is,
>
> That's a Germanism. My bad. The German equivalent of 'unless' is
> 'ausser wenn' and the/a literal translation of that is 'except if'
> (Possibly, 'except when'. So far, I haven't managed to figure out the
> precise differences of if, whether and when in conditional clause :-).
That part makes perfect sense in particular when one considers that
"unless" is the logical negation of the if clause, that which is
"outside of it.'
Did you perchance mean to include a second colon here:
Perl: Configuration
>
> OTOH, this has offered the Wilbur(?) guy a nice opportunity for some
> additional rants. After all, my English is decidedly homegrown and
> this comes accross as 'more or less retarded' to a native speaker who
> doesn't really consider the circumstances (can't even talk =>
> imbecile).
>
I don't know wilbur, but I do know we grow our morons big around here,
and give them megaphones if they can add parochial, intolerant,
strident, revisionist and delusional to it.
Cheers,
--
Cal
------------------------------
Date: 6 Apr 2001 21:33:47 GMT (Last modified)
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ftp://cil-www.oce.orst.edu/pub/perl/old-digests.
#For other requests pertaining to the digest, send mail to
#perl-users-request@ruby.oce.orst.edu. Do not waste your time or mine
#sending perl questions to the -request address, I don't have time to
#answer them even if I did know the answer.
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End of Perl-Users Digest V11 Issue 3750
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