[32412] in Perl-Users-Digest
Perl-Users Digest, Issue: 3679 Volume: 11
daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (Perl-Users Digest)
Sun Apr 29 16:09:28 2012
Date: Sun, 29 Apr 2012 13:09:07 -0700 (PDT)
From: Perl-Users Digest <Perl-Users-Request@ruby.OCE.ORST.EDU>
To: Perl-Users@ruby.OCE.ORST.EDU (Perl-Users Digest)
Perl-Users Digest Sun, 29 Apr 2012 Volume: 11 Number: 3679
Today's topics:
28apr12 8-10PM (TONIGHT!) WEBSTER TARPLEY (9/11-WTC "WH (David Combs)
Re: 28apr12 8-10PM (TONIGHT!) WEBSTER TARPLEY (9/11-WTC (Seymour J.)
Re: delete object <hjp-usenet2@hjp.at>
Re: delete object <hjp-usenet2@hjp.at>
Re: delete object <ben@morrow.me.uk>
Re: delete object <hjp-usenet2@hjp.at>
Re: delete object <xhoster@gmail.com>
Re: delete object <rweikusat@mssgmbh.com>
Learn Technical Writing from Unix Man in 10 Days <xahlee@gmail.com>
Re: Learn Technical Writing from Unix Man in 10 Days <acm@muc.de>
Re: Learn Technical Writing from Unix Man in 10 Days <kiuhnm03.4t.yahoo.it>
OT: 28apr12 8-10PM (TONIGHT!) WEBSTER TARPLEY (9/11-WTC (David Combs)
Re: Why does this code works without cat ? <hjp-usenet2@hjp.at>
Re: Why does this code works without cat ? <hjp-usenet2@hjp.at>
Re: Why does this code works without cat ? <whynot@pozharski.name>
Digest Administrivia (Last modified: 6 Apr 01) (Perl-Users-Digest Admin)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: 28 Apr 2012 17:24:30 -0400
From: dkcombs@panix.com (David Combs)
Subject: 28apr12 8-10PM (TONIGHT!) WEBSTER TARPLEY (9/11-WTC "WHO DONE IT"): via BOOKTV (ie C-SPAN2)
Message-Id: <jnhn6e$jb3$1@panix2.panix.com>
Sorry for the off-topic post, but to some of you, this will be important.
28apr12 8-10PM (TONIGHT!) WEBSTER TARPLEY (9/11-WTC "WHO DONE IT"): via BOOKTV (ie C-SPAN2)
DEBATE between "official 9/11 story is correct" and "official 9/11 story is FALSE, FALSE, FALSE"
First, What's "BOOKTV"? Each weekend C-SPAN2 (the Senate channel) devotes 48 hours, from 8am Saturday to 8am Monday, 100% to (new) books.
Average time per book is one hour: first half, the author speaks and reads; second half, answer audience questions.
Will it be any good? For this, I check out the Amazon-page on the book, and click "reader-reviews", to get them all (sorted, if you want).
Sat night (ie TONIGHT) at 8pm (IN THREE HOURS), they're having WEBSTER TARPLEY (plus some other guy):
Debate on "9/11, False Flags, and Black Ops" with Jonathan Kay and Webster Tarpley (1 hour 40 minutes)
[ http://www.booktv.org/Schedule.aspx (for a booktv "blurb" on a book, simply click on it)
http://www.booktv.org/Schedule.aspx (click on the Sunday 8pm Tarpley book for a "blurb" on it) ]
Will it be any good? For this, I check out the Amazon reader-reviews. Here's Tarpley's book:
http://www.amazon.com/11-Synthetic-Terror-Made-USA/dp/1615771115/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1335622438&sr=1-1
Or go straight to its 79 REVIEWS (average: 4.5 stars, an extremely high rating):
http://www.amazon.com/11-Synthetic-Terror-Made-USA/product-reviews/1615771115/ref=dp_top_cm_cr_acr_txt?ie=UTF8&showViewpoints=1
(On a NYC radio station, I've heard *lots* of talks by and interviews of Webster Tarpley. This guy is GOOD -- he knows his stuff.)
(AT LEAST RECORD AND SAVE IT! (99% chance c-span it won't repeat it))
------ Now, here's C-SPAN2's own blurb on the Tarpley 8pm debate. Click on it:
[from: http://www.booktv.org/Program/13384/Debate+on+911+False+Flags+and+Black+Ops+with+Jonathan+Kay+and+Webster+Tarpley.aspx]
The book he's just written (the fifth edition of) is:
"9/11 Synthetic Terror: Made in USA" (Paperback - Nov 11, 2011), 5th Edition
Buy new:$19.95 $17.05
15 new from $12.84 4 used from $13.10
(4.5 stars from 79 reviewers) <<===== if interested, CLICK HERE, see what they say.
Buy the author's book from: Amazon | Barnes & Noble | Indiebound
---------------------------------^^^^^^ <<<======= Click HERE (wait, then click again)
Then, once on the book's actual page, click "READER REVIEWS".
Go straight to Tarpley's book:
http://www.amazon.com/11-Synthetic-Terror-Made-USA/dp/1615771115/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1335622438&sr=1-1
or straight to its 79 REVIEWS (average: 4.5 stars, an extremely high rating):
http://www.amazon.com/11-Synthetic-Terror-Made-USA/product-reviews/1615771115/ref=dp_top_cm_cr_acr_txt?ie=UTF8&showViewpoints=1
-----------------------------------------------------------
-----------------------------------------------------------
Everyone in power (including Obama) seems to have been working overtime, behind the scenes, to suppress or at least discourage *any* discussion of who or what was "really" behind that terrible day.
And so you hardly hear 9/11 questioned any more.
Thus, left or right, THIS SHOW is one of your few opportunity to learn, to see both sides.
NOTE: Given how the government, meeting NO opposition from any of us, seems to be taking over,
I doubt if you'll get another chance to see something like this, at least via the "mainstream" media.
(They hate our freedoms? Well, I guess they've won.)
SO, AT LEAST RECORD AND SAVE IT! (99% chance c-span it won't repeat it)
ENJOY!
David
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 28 Apr 2012 23:14:41 -0400
From: Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz <spamtrap@library.lspace.org.invalid>
Subject: Re: 28apr12 8-10PM (TONIGHT!) WEBSTER TARPLEY (9/11-WTC "WHO DONE IT"): via BOOKTV (ie C-SPAN2)
Message-Id: <4f9cb221$8$fuzhry+tra$mr2ice@news.patriot.net>
In <jnhn6e$jb3$1@panix2.panix.com>, on 04/28/2012
at 05:24 PM, dkcombs@panix.com (David Combs) said:
>Sorry for the off-topic post, but to some of you, this will be
>important.
Yes - it tells me to update my filters.
*PLONK*
--
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz, SysProg and JOAT <http://patriot.net/~shmuel>
Unsolicited bulk E-mail subject to legal action. I reserve the
right to publicly post or ridicule any abusive E-mail. Reply to
domain Patriot dot net user shmuel+news to contact me. Do not
reply to spamtrap@library.lspace.org
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 28 Apr 2012 11:09:23 +0200
From: "Peter J. Holzer" <hjp-usenet2@hjp.at>
Subject: Re: delete object
Message-Id: <slrnjpncu6.42o.hjp-usenet2@hrunkner.hjp.at>
On 2012-04-25 21:09, George Mpouras <nospam.gravitalsun.antispam@hotmail.com.nospam> wrote:
>
> Perl will free it *immediately*, including calling ->DESTROY if it is
> defined.
>
> while your program is running it will not free a bit
That's not true.
Perl will call free() immediately (in most cases - there are some cases
where it keeps the memory because it expects to need it again soon).
But what free does with the memory depends on the implementation of the
malloc library. In the case of the GNU library the rules are (somewhat
simplified):
* Small objects (up to 128 kB) objects are allocated from the "heap" -
a contiguous memory area just after the data segment. The heap can
grow (if there is not enough unused memory in it) or shrink (if there
is unused memory at the end), but it is always contiguous. If there
are 3 MB of unused memory in the middle of it, that memory can not be
returned to the OS. (But that memory is of course available for
future malloc calls and the heap will only grow again after you've
filled it up).
* Larger objects are allocated individually via mmap. Because they have
been individually requested from the OS, they can be (and are)
individually returned to the OS.
Most memory allocations that perl makes (SVs, strings, pads, ...) are
small - they come from the heap and when they are freed they go back to
the heap - they will be reused when perl needs more memory again, but
the perl process won't shrink (unless you just happened to free enough
memory at the end of the heap). But long strings and large arrays and
hashes (only the array or hash itself, not its elements) come directly
from the OS and will be returned to it immediately. So if those are
freed the process does shrink.
Other malloc implementations may differ.
But the important point is that this is a function of the underlying
malloc library, not the perl interpreter, and as a Perl programmer you
have no control over that. The perl interpreter just calls free, whether
you just let the object go out of scope or you called undef. The malloc
library then decides what to do with the chunk of memory you just
returned to it. The code you posted earlies almost certainly makes no
difference, the result is just the same as if you just removed the last
reference to the object.
hp
--
_ | Peter J. Holzer | Deprecating human carelessness and
|_|_) | Sysadmin WSR | ignorance has no successful track record.
| | | hjp@hjp.at |
__/ | http://www.hjp.at/ | -- Bill Code on asrg@irtf.org
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 28 Apr 2012 11:40:22 +0200
From: "Peter J. Holzer" <hjp-usenet2@hjp.at>
Subject: Re: delete object
Message-Id: <slrnjpneo6.42o.hjp-usenet2@hrunkner.hjp.at>
On 2012-04-26 09:05, Ivan Shmakov <oneingray@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>> George Mpouras <nospam.gravitalsun.antispam@hotmail.com.nospam> writes:
> > I understand about garbage collector, theory is good but practice is
> > different.
>
> > try this command to check memory usage by perl
>
> > watch "ps -e -orss=,args= | sort -b -k1,1n | pr -TW$COLUMNS | grep -i perl"
>
> Indeed, Perl doesn't seem to free all the space immediately.
>
> #!/usr/bin/perl
>
> # 1652 perl ...
> BEGIN { getc; }
> my @array = (1 .. (1 << 22));
> # 331360 perl ...
> # huh? 80 bytes per an integer?
Interesting. It should be around 40 bytes on a 64 bit system (less on a
32 bit system). See http://www.hjp.at/programming/perl/memory/ for some
experiments I did with 5.8 and 5.10 a couple of years ago. Would you
mind running the test script on that page? (I just see that it accesses
/proc/$$/statm to get the (virtual) process size - if you don't run
linux, you'll have to change that).
> getc;
> print $#array, "\n"; # prints: 4194303
> undef @array;
> # 298640 perl ...
Note that the process shrunk only by 331360 - 298640 = 32720 kB, or
about 8 Bytes per element. That's size of the array itself. The elements
of the array (the other 72 bytes per element) were only returned to the
heap and are available for future malloc calls.
hp
--
_ | Peter J. Holzer | Deprecating human carelessness and
|_|_) | Sysadmin WSR | ignorance has no successful track record.
| | | hjp@hjp.at |
__/ | http://www.hjp.at/ | -- Bill Code on asrg@irtf.org
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 28 Apr 2012 11:57:01 +0100
From: Ben Morrow <ben@morrow.me.uk>
Subject: Re: delete object
Message-Id: <t0vs69-104.ln1@anubis.morrow.me.uk>
Quoth "Peter J. Holzer" <hjp-usenet2@hjp.at>:
> On 2012-04-26 09:05, Ivan Shmakov <oneingray@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>>>> George Mpouras <nospam.gravitalsun.antispam@hotmail.com.nospam> writes:
> > > I understand about garbage collector, theory is good but practice is
> > > different.
> >
> > > try this command to check memory usage by perl
> >
> > > watch "ps -e -orss=,args= | sort -b -k1,1n | pr -TW$COLUMNS | grep -i perl"
> >
> > Indeed, Perl doesn't seem to free all the space immediately.
> >
> > #!/usr/bin/perl
> >
> > # 1652 perl ...
> > BEGIN { getc; }
> > my @array = (1 .. (1 << 22));
> > # 331360 perl ...
> > # huh? 80 bytes per an integer?
>
> Interesting. It should be around 40 bytes on a 64 bit system (less on a
> 32 bit system). See http://www.hjp.at/programming/perl/memory/ for some
> experiments I did with 5.8 and 5.10 a couple of years ago. Would you
> mind running the test script on that page? (I just see that it accesses
> /proc/$$/statm to get the (virtual) process size - if you don't run
> linux, you'll have to change that).
George was looking at RSS, not VSZ, so the results are pretty
meaningless for this purpose. Probably some part of the binary was paged
in.
Ben
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 28 Apr 2012 22:00:01 +0200
From: "Peter J. Holzer" <hjp-usenet2@hjp.at>
Subject: Re: delete object
Message-Id: <slrnjpoj21.jt1.hjp-usenet2@hrunkner.hjp.at>
On 2012-04-25 18:01, Ben Morrow <ben@morrow.me.uk> wrote:
>
> Quoth tmcd@panix.com:
>> In article <jell69-8jk1.ln1@anubis.morrow.me.uk>,
>> Ben Morrow <ben@morrow.me.uk> wrote:
>> >Instead, write a DESTROY method (if you need one)
>>
>> To expand on that: my understanding is that a DESTROY method is very
>> rarely needed -- for example, if there's an external connection that
>> must be closed cleanly. If all you are worried about is internal
>> storage, like the contents of a hash table, then I don't know of a
>> reason to have a DESTROY method: I think it will be called only when
>> there are no more references to the object, so as long as $obj still
>> has a reference to the object, it won't get called.
>
> You also need DESTROY when the object has internal circular references,
> since they won't be collected until the cycle is explicitly broken.
I don't see how DESTROY helps here - if there are circular (non-weak)
references, the reference count will never reach 0 and DESTROY will
never be called.
What you need in this case is an explicit cleanup method which is called
explicitely.
hp
--
_ | Peter J. Holzer | Deprecating human carelessness and
|_|_) | Sysadmin WSR | ignorance has no successful track record.
| | | hjp@hjp.at |
__/ | http://www.hjp.at/ | -- Bill Code on asrg@irtf.org
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 28 Apr 2012 15:23:40 -0700
From: Xho Jingleheimerschmidt <xhoster@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: delete object
Message-Id: <4f9c8b4a$0$9725$ed362ca5@nr5-q3a.newsreader.com>
On 04/28/2012 01:00 PM, Peter J. Holzer wrote:
> On 2012-04-25 18:01, Ben Morrow<ben@morrow.me.uk> wrote:
>>
>> Quoth tmcd@panix.com:
>>> In article<jell69-8jk1.ln1@anubis.morrow.me.uk>,
>>> Ben Morrow<ben@morrow.me.uk> wrote:
>>>> Instead, write a DESTROY method (if you need one)
>>>
>>> To expand on that: my understanding is that a DESTROY method is very
>>> rarely needed -- for example, if there's an external connection that
>>> must be closed cleanly. If all you are worried about is internal
>>> storage, like the contents of a hash table, then I don't know of a
>>> reason to have a DESTROY method: I think it will be called only when
>>> there are no more references to the object, so as long as $obj still
>>> has a reference to the object, it won't get called.
>>
>> You also need DESTROY when the object has internal circular references,
>> since they won't be collected until the cycle is explicitly broken.
>
> I don't see how DESTROY helps here - if there are circular (non-weak)
> references, the reference count will never reach 0 and DESTROY will
> never be called.
If the root object is not itself part of the cycle, then DESTROY will
get called on the root object which then gets to break the cycle among
its children.
Xho
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 29 Apr 2012 20:30:47 +0100
From: Rainer Weikusat <rweikusat@mssgmbh.com>
Subject: Re: delete object
Message-Id: <87d36q72u0.fsf@sapphire.mobileactivedefense.com>
Rainer Weikusat <rweikusat@mssgmbh.com> writes:
> Ben Morrow <ben@morrow.me.uk> writes:
[...]
>> For example, a bug which was fixed in 5.14 but before that will segfault
>> perl, probably back as far as 5.000:
>>
>> perl -MDevel::Peek -e'my $x = sub { 1 };
>> delete $main::{__ANON__};
>> Dump $x;
>> '
>>
>> This segfaults because the sub holds a pointer to its glob, in this case
>> *__ANON__; but this pointer isn't refcounted, because (at least in the
>> named sub case) the glob also holds a pointer to the sub, so there would
>> be a cycle.
>
> Nope. This isn't refcounted because this would be pointless in case of
> a named sub since the glob already holds a refcounted pointer to the
> sub. For obvious reasons, a mechanism designed based on the assumption
> that there will always an 1:1 mapping between different kinds of
> objects can't just be 'extended' to the 1:n case without changes.
I'd like to expand a little on that: There's an obvious reason why a
glob should hold a refcounted pointer to a subroutine associated with
the name mapped to this glob: Like any other kind of Perl object, the
subroutine is supposed to go away once it isn't referenced anymore and
the glob pointer is one of the anchors keeping it in 'known space':
For as long as the subroutine is still associated with the name in
question, it can still be called. OTOH, having a back pointer from the
CV to this one particular glob seems to be singularly weird design
descision since any number of names may resolve to the same
subroutine and may be associated with and disassociated from it at any
given time. Consequently, I would really like to know why a named
subroutine has a pointer to the glob originally pointing to it: To me,
this looks very much as if it was either and ill thought-out attempt
at 'optmizing' something or simply a design error.
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 28 Apr 2012 14:55:42 -0700 (PDT)
From: Xah Lee <xahlee@gmail.com>
Subject: Learn Technical Writing from Unix Man in 10 Days
Message-Id: <58fc31df-c9bd-4b5c-be83-b8f15adb0d1d@g6g2000pbq.googlegroups.com>
Learn Technical Writing from Unix Man in 10 Days
Quote from man apt-get:
remove
remove is identical to install except that packages are
removed
instead of installed.
Translation:
kicking
kicking is identical to kissing except that receiver is kicked
instead of kissed.
further readings:
=E2=80=A2 =E3=80=88The Idiocy of Computer Language Docs=E3=80=89
http://xahlee.org/comp/idiocy_of_comp_lang.html
=E2=80=A2 =E3=80=88Why Open Source Documentation is of Low Quality=E3=80=89
http://xahlee.org/UnixResource_dir/writ/gubni_papri.html
=E2=80=A2 =E3=80=88Python Documentation Problems=E3=80=89
http://xahlee.org/perl-python/python_doc_index.html
DISAPPEARING URL IN DOC
so, i was reading man git. Quote:
Formatted and hyperlinked version of the latest git documentation
can
be viewed at http://www.kernel.org/pub/software/scm/git/docs/.
but if you go to that url, it shows a list of over one hundred fourty
empty dirs.
I guess unix/linux idiots can't be bothered to have correct
documentation. Inability to write is one thing, but they are unable to
maintain a link or update doc?
does this ever happens to Apple's docs? If it did, i don't ever recall
seeing it from 18 years of using Mac.
more records of careless dead link:
=E2=80=A2 =E3=80=88Hackers: Dead Links and Human Compassion?=E3=80=89
http://xahlee.org/comp/hacker_dead_links_and_compassion.html
=E2=80=A2 =E3=80=88Why Qi Lisp Fails and Clojure Succeeds=E3=80=89
http://xahlee.org/UnixResource_dir/writ/qi_lang_marketing.html
=E2=80=A2 =E3=80=88unix: Hunspell Path Pain=E3=80=89
http://xahlee.org/comp/hunspell_spell_path_pain.html
=E2=80=A2 =E3=80=88Python Doc URL disappearance=E3=80=89
http://xahlee.org/perl-python/python_doc_url_disappearance.html
=E2=80=A2 =E3=80=88A Record of Frustration in IT Industry; Disappearing FSF=
URLs=E3=80=89
http://xahlee.org/emacs/gnu_doc.html
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 29 Apr 2012 09:24:58 +0000 (UTC)
From: Alan Mackenzie <acm@muc.de>
Subject: Re: Learn Technical Writing from Unix Man in 10 Days
Message-Id: <jnj1da$1pg4$1@colin.muc.de>
Hello, Xah.
In comp.emacs Xah Lee <xahlee@gmail.com> wrote:
> Learn Technical Writing from Unix Man in 10 Days
> Quote from man apt-get:
> remove
> remove is identical to install except that packages are
> removed
> instead of installed.
> Translation:
> kicking
> kicking is identical to kissing except that receiver is kicked
> instead of kissed.
Ha ha ha ha!!
You don't need to go as far as apt-get to see this. Even worse is C-h f
car in Emacs. Imagine it before the last paragraph got added. This only
happened after a fairly long thread on emacs-devel.
There are far too many man pages which are suboptimal, to say the least.
> further readings:
[ .... ]
> DISAPPEARING URL IN DOC
> so, i was reading man git. Quote:
> Formatted and hyperlinked version of the latest git documentation
> can
> be viewed at http://www.kernel.org/pub/software/scm/git/docs/.
> but if you go to that url, it shows a list of over one hundred fourty
> empty dirs.
> I guess unix/linux idiots can't be bothered to have correct
> documentation. Inability to write is one thing, but they are unable to
> maintain a link or update doc?
Maintaining links is actually quite hard. After the struggle to document
"remove", one typically has insufficient energy left over to check all
the links.
> does this ever happens to Apple's docs? If it did, i don't ever recall
> seeing it from 18 years of using Mac.
Have you ever tried to set up CUPS, the printing system? At one point,
you're supposed to enter the "URI" of the printer, without any explanation
of what the URI of a local printer is. At another point you're prompted
to enter "Name". Name of what? If you click on the "help", you get
taken to a search box, not proper docs. Typing "name" into the search
box isn't useful. And so it goes on.
CUPS is an Apple product.
> more records of careless dead link:
[ .... ]
--
Alan Mackenzie (Nuremberg, Germany).
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 29 Apr 2012 14:21:38 +0200
From: Kiuhnm <kiuhnm03.4t.yahoo.it>
Subject: Re: Learn Technical Writing from Unix Man in 10 Days
Message-Id: <4f9d3251$0$1375$4fafbaef@reader2.news.tin.it>
On 4/28/2012 23:55, Xah Lee wrote:
> Learn Technical Writing from Unix Man in 10 Days
>
> Quote from man apt-get:
>
> remove
> remove is identical to install except that packages are
> removed
> instead of installed.
>
> Translation:
>
> kicking
> kicking is identical to kissing except that receiver is kicked
> instead of kissed.
Superficial as always.
Here's the part you misquoted:
--->
install
install is followed by one or more packages desired for
installation or upgrading. Each package is a package name, not a
fully qualified filename (for instance, in a Debian GNU/Linux
system, libc6 would be the argument provided, not
libc6_1.9.6-2.deb). All packages required by the package(s)
specified for installation will also be retrieved and installed.
The /etc/apt/sources.list file is used to locate the desired
packages. If a hyphen is appended to the package name (with no
intervening space), the identified package will be removed if it is
installed. Similarly a plus sign can be used to designate a package
to install. These latter features may be used to override decisions
made by apt-get's conflict resolution system.
A specific version of a package can be selected for installation by
following the package name with an equals and the version of the
package to select. This will cause that version to be located and
selected for install. Alternatively a specific distribution can be
selected by following the package name with a slash and the version
of the distribution or the Archive name (stable, testing,
unstable).
Both of the version selection mechanisms can downgrade packages and
must be used with care.
This is also the target to use if you want to upgrade one or more
already-installed packages without upgrading every package you have
on your system. Unlike the "upgrade" target, which installs the
newest version of all currently installed packages, "install" will
install the newest version of only the package(s) specified. Simply
provide the name of the package(s) you wish to upgrade, and if a
newer version is available, it (and its dependencies, as described
above) will be downloaded and installed.
Finally, the apt_preferences(5) mechanism allows you to create an
alternative installation policy for individual packages.
If no package matches the given expression and the expression
contains one of '.', '?' or '*' then it is assumed to be a POSIX
regular expression, and it is applied to all package names in the
database. Any matches are then installed (or removed). Note that
matching is done by substring so 'lo.*' matches 'how-lo' and
'lowest'. If this is undesired, anchor the regular expression with
a '^' or '$' character, or create a more specific regular
expression.
remove
remove is identical to install except that packages are removed
instead of installed. Note the removing a package leaves its
configuration files in system. If a plus sign is appended to the
package name (with no intervening space), the identified package
will be installed instead of removed.
<---
Kiuhnm
------------------------------
Date: 28 Apr 2012 17:36:17 -0400
From: dkcombs@panix.com (David Combs)
Subject: OT: 28apr12 8-10PM (TONIGHT!) WEBSTER TARPLEY (9/11-WTC "WHO DONE IT"): via BOOKTV (ie C-SPAN2)
Message-Id: <jnhnsh$803$1@panix2.panix.com>
Sorry for the off-topic post, but to some of you, this will be important.
28apr12 8-10PM (TONIGHT!) WEBSTER TARPLEY (9/11-WTC "WHO DONE IT"): via BOOKTV (ie C-SPAN2)
DEBATE between "official 9/11 story is correct" and "official 9/11 story is FALSE, FALSE, FALSE"
First, What's "BOOKTV"? Each weekend C-SPAN2 (the Senate channel) devotes 48 hours, from 8am Saturday to 8am Monday, 100% to (new) books.
Average time per book is one hour: first half, the author speaks and reads; second half, answer audience questions.
Will it be any good? For this, I check out the Amazon-page on the book, and click "reader-reviews", to get them all (sorted, if you want).
Sat night (ie TONIGHT) at 8pm (IN THREE HOURS), they're having WEBSTER TARPLEY (plus some other guy):
Debate on "9/11, False Flags, and Black Ops" with Jonathan Kay and Webster Tarpley (1 hour 40 minutes)
[ http://www.booktv.org/Schedule.aspx (for a booktv "blurb" on a book, simply click on it)
http://www.booktv.org/Schedule.aspx (click on the Sunday 8pm Tarpley book for a "blurb" on it) ]
Will it be any good? For this, I check out the Amazon reader-reviews. Here's Tarpley's book:
http://www.amazon.com/11-Synthetic-Terror-Made-USA/dp/1615771115/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1335622438&sr=1-1
Or go straight to its 79 REVIEWS (average: 4.5 stars, an extremely high rating):
http://www.amazon.com/11-Synthetic-Terror-Made-USA/product-reviews/1615771115/ref=dp_top_cm_cr_acr_txt?ie=UTF8&showViewpoints=1
(On a NYC radio station, I've heard *lots* of talks by and interviews of Webster Tarpley. This guy is GOOD -- he knows his stuff.)
(AT LEAST RECORD AND SAVE IT! (99% chance c-span it won't repeat it))
------ Now, here's C-SPAN2's own blurb on the Tarpley 8pm debate. Click on it:
[from: http://www.booktv.org/Program/13384/Debate+on+911+False+Flags+and+Black+Ops+with+Jonathan+Kay+and+Webster+Tarpley.aspx]
The book he's just written (the fifth edition of) is:
"9/11 Synthetic Terror: Made in USA" (Paperback - Nov 11, 2011), 5th Edition
Buy new:$19.95 $17.05
15 new from $12.84 4 used from $13.10
(4.5 stars from 79 reviewers) <<===== if interested, CLICK HERE, see what they say.
Buy the author's book from: Amazon | Barnes & Noble | Indiebound
---------------------------------^^^^^^ <<<======= Click HERE (wait, then click again)
Then, once on the book's actual page, click "READER REVIEWS".
Go straight to Tarpley's book:
http://www.amazon.com/11-Synthetic-Terror-Made-USA/dp/1615771115/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1335622438&sr=1-1
or straight to its 79 REVIEWS (average: 4.5 stars, an extremely high rating):
http://www.amazon.com/11-Synthetic-Terror-Made-USA/product-reviews/1615771115/ref=dp_top_cm_cr_acr_txt?ie=UTF8&showViewpoints=1
-----------------------------------------------------------
-----------------------------------------------------------
Everyone in power (including Obama) seems to have been working overtime, behind the scenes, to suppress or at least discourage *any* discussion of who or what was "really" behind that terrible day.
And so you hardly hear 9/11 questioned any more.
Thus, left or right, THIS SHOW is one of your few opportunity to learn, to see both sides.
NOTE: Given how the government, meeting NO opposition from any of us, seems to be taking over,
I doubt if you'll get another chance to see something like this, at least via the "mainstream" media.
(They hate our freedoms? Well, I guess they've won.)
SO, AT LEAST RECORD AND SAVE IT! (99% chance c-span it won't repeat it)
ENJOY!
David
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 28 Apr 2012 11:50:10 +0200
From: "Peter J. Holzer" <hjp-usenet2@hjp.at>
Subject: Re: Why does this code works without cat ?
Message-Id: <slrnjpnfai.42o.hjp-usenet2@hrunkner.hjp.at>
On 2012-04-26 19:35, Ben Morrow <ben@morrow.me.uk> wrote:
> More generally, if the extension had used syntax which was previously
> invalid, like the similar N<(cmd args) extension implemented by both zsh
> and bash (but not ksh), there would have been no problem. In this case,
> though, the syntax chosen *was* previously valid sh syntax, so zsh's
> designers should have realised someone somewhere was probably using it
> with its sh meaning, and chosen something else.
They probably did realize that and didn't care. The zsh is not intended
to be bourne shell compatible. It started as "mostly bourne shell, but
with the good parts of csh mixed in" and grew from there. There are
other differences, too - for example parameter expansion differs
significantly from the bourne shell - not by mistake, but because the
zsh developers considered the bourne shell broken in this regard and
decided to fix it. (The POSIX shell can never fix that - it must remain
backwards compatible)
hp
--
_ | Peter J. Holzer | Deprecating human carelessness and
|_|_) | Sysadmin WSR | ignorance has no successful track record.
| | | hjp@hjp.at |
__/ | http://www.hjp.at/ | -- Bill Code on asrg@irtf.org
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 28 Apr 2012 21:55:04 +0200
From: "Peter J. Holzer" <hjp-usenet2@hjp.at>
Subject: Re: Why does this code works without cat ?
Message-Id: <slrnjpoioo.jt1.hjp-usenet2@hrunkner.hjp.at>
On 2012-04-26 10:23, Eric Pozharski <whynot@pozharski.name> wrote:
> with <1qal69-cbj1.ln1@anubis.morrow.me.uk> Ben Morrow wrote:
>> Quoth Eric Pozharski <whynot@pozharski.name>:
> *SKIP*
>>> The only reason for this could be POSIX. Any reference, please?
>> Well, if you insist:
> *SKIP*
>
> I have to read it around. In order to lay hands on this I have to
> register, what will take some time. Maybe some kind soul would point to
> some pirated copy, but I guess not.
Try this link: http://pubs.opengroup.org/onlinepubs/9699919799/toc.htm
Not pirated, just a deep link.
hp
--
_ | Peter J. Holzer | Deprecating human carelessness and
|_|_) | Sysadmin WSR | ignorance has no successful track record.
| | | hjp@hjp.at |
__/ | http://www.hjp.at/ | -- Bill Code on asrg@irtf.org
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 29 Apr 2012 12:12:41 +0300
From: Eric Pozharski <whynot@pozharski.name>
Subject: Re: Why does this code works without cat ?
Message-Id: <slrnjpq1g9.jta.whynot@orphan.zombinet>
with <slrnjpoioo.jt1.hjp-usenet2@hrunkner.hjp.at> Peter J. Holzer wrote:
*SKIP*
> Try this link: http://pubs.opengroup.org/onlinepubs/9699919799/toc.htm
>
> Not pirated, just a deep link.
Thank you kind soul for this pirated copy! Already reading.
As of registration, I guess, I've failed just as two years ago. I must
be from an "organisation". And I'm not.
--
Torvalds' goal for Linux is very simple: World Domination
Stallman's goal for GNU is even simpler: Freedom
------------------------------
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Subject: Digest Administrivia (Last modified: 6 Apr 01)
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