[32153] in Perl-Users-Digest
Perl-Users Digest, Issue: 3418 Volume: 11
daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (Perl-Users Digest)
Fri Jun 17 18:09:25 2011
Date: Fri, 17 Jun 2011 15:09:08 -0700 (PDT)
From: Perl-Users Digest <Perl-Users-Request@ruby.OCE.ORST.EDU>
To: Perl-Users@ruby.OCE.ORST.EDU (Perl-Users Digest)
Perl-Users Digest Fri, 17 Jun 2011 Volume: 11 Number: 3418
Today's topics:
Re: [RegEx] Optional parameter <source@netcom.com>
Re: [RegEx] Optional parameter <ralph@happydays.com>
Re: [RegEx] Optional parameter <uri@StemSystems.com>
Re: [RegEx] Optional parameter <rweikusat@mssgmbh.com>
Re: [RegEx] Optional parameter (Randal L. Schwartz)
Re: [RegEx] Optional parameter <uri@StemSystems.com>
Re: [RegEx] Optional parameter (Randal L. Schwartz)
Re: FAQ 2.6 What modules and extensions are available f <brian.d.foy@gmail.com>
Re: FAQ 2.6 What modules and extensions are available f <xhoster@gmail.com>
Re: FAQ 2.6 What modules and extensions are available f <ralph@happydays.com>
Re: Howto pass the arguments to the procedure in the ea <peter@makholm.net>
Re: Howto pass the arguments to the procedure in the ea <josef.moellers@ts.fujitsu.com>
Re: Howto pass the arguments to the procedure in the ea <NoSpamPleaseButThisIsValid3@gmx.net>
Posting Guidelines for comp.lang.perl.misc ($Revision: tadmc@seesig.invalid
Re: Posting Guidelines for comp.lang.perl.misc ($Revisi <ralph@happydays.com>
Re: Unicode labels with Chart::Composite <xhoster@gmail.com>
Digest Administrivia (Last modified: 6 Apr 01) (Perl-Users-Digest Admin)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Fri, 17 Jun 2011 13:09:09 -0700
From: David Harmon <source@netcom.com>
Subject: Re: [RegEx] Optional parameter
Message-Id: <8pmdnTjC-fgTKWbQnZ2dnUVZ_gKdnZ2d@earthlink.com>
On Sun, 12 Jun 2011 17:11:10 -0700 in comp.lang.perl.misc,
merlyn@stonehenge.com (Randal L. Schwartz) wrote,
> I'm actually of the camp that "use warnings" does
>more harm than good for the expert programmer.
Would you care to say why that is? It seems to me that if I put
"use warnings" and no warnings appear, then it isn't doing any harm.
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 17 Jun 2011 16:21:51 -0400
From: Ralph Malph <ralph@happydays.com>
Subject: Re: [RegEx] Optional parameter
Message-Id: <5a2a1$4dfbb762$ce534406$13370@news.eurofeeds.com>
Just what do you hire for? Putting tins of chocolate into boxes?
Also, the idea that you more than dabble in placements is laughable.
Anyone that has ever met you knows you are completely unprofessional**
and the last
person on earth with the sorts of relationships or soft skills needed to
place people in
positions.
**Think comic book guy from The Simpsons except questions of personal
hygiene
are not left to the imagination.
> if you coded that way regularly, i would never hire you or place you in
> a perl job.
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 17 Jun 2011 16:33:45 -0400
From: "Uri Guttman" <uri@StemSystems.com>
Subject: Re: [RegEx] Optional parameter
Message-Id: <877h8kmc46.fsf@quad.sysarch.com>
>>>>> "RM" == Ralph Malph <ralph@happydays.com> writes:
RM> Just what do you hire for? Putting tins of chocolate into boxes?
RM> Also, the idea that you more than dabble in placements is
RM> laughable. Anyone that has ever met you knows you are completely
RM> unprofessional and the last person on earth with the sorts of
RM> relationships or soft skills needed to place people in positions.
you are so correct as always. and i wouldn't hire you to pack chocolates
as you wouldn't be smart enough to know how to close the box. now please
go away to the dark place where you normally live. you don't contribute
anything here so why do you stick around? you like the pain you get?
always flaming on the guidelines gets you off? replying to automatic
emails is fun for you? just think about the life you don't have if that
is so important to you. must be bad feeling so bad about yourself. and
if this doesn't make you realize how sad you are, then you are in worse
shape than you obviously show us here. seek help.
uri
--
Uri Guttman ------ uri@stemsystems.com -------- http://www.sysarch.com --
----- Perl Code Review , Architecture, Development, Training, Support ------
--------- Gourmet Hot Cocoa Mix ---- http://bestfriendscocoa.com ---------
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 17 Jun 2011 21:49:31 +0100
From: Rainer Weikusat <rweikusat@mssgmbh.com>
Subject: Re: [RegEx] Optional parameter
Message-Id: <87ei2sches.fsf@sapphire.mobileactivedefense.com>
David Harmon <source@netcom.com> writes:
> On Sun, 12 Jun 2011 17:11:10 -0700 in comp.lang.perl.misc,
> merlyn@stonehenge.com (Randal L. Schwartz) wrote,
>> I'm actually of the camp that "use warnings" does
>>more harm than good for the expert programmer.
>
> Would you care to say why that is? It seems to me that if I put
> "use warnings" and no warnings appear, then it isn't doing any harm.
A medium small Perl program I have here consists of (including some
supporting extension modules) 8187 lines of code in 226 files. The
harm, in this case, would be 226 lines of code (or 452 lines of code
with 'use strict') that I have to write, read when reading the files
and which the perl compiler needs to process that perform absolutely
no useful function except during development. Finished code shouldn't
produce any warnings except warnings known to be irrelevant and it
should usually compile with 'stricture' enabled, similar to compiled C
code which also won't produce compiler warnings during execution
(although enabling them during compilation is IMO sensible) and whose
source code isn't checked for errors known to be non-existent at each
program startup, either.
[Yes, I also write a fair amount of C and because of this, my mind is
structured around
1. edit
2. while (doesn't compile) fix it
3. if test doesn't work, goto 1
4. use the product
]
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 17 Jun 2011 14:10:56 -0700
From: merlyn@stonehenge.com (Randal L. Schwartz)
Subject: Re: [RegEx] Optional parameter
Message-Id: <86aadg88pr.fsf@red.stonehenge.com>
>>>>> "David" == David Harmon <source@netcom.com> writes:
David> On Sun, 12 Jun 2011 17:11:10 -0700 in comp.lang.perl.misc,
David> merlyn@stonehenge.com (Randal L. Schwartz) wrote,
>> I'm actually of the camp that "use warnings" does
>> more harm than good for the expert programmer.
David> Would you care to say why that is? It seems to me that if I put
David> "use warnings" and no warnings appear, then it isn't doing any harm.
Because the workarounds an expert has to do to get warnings not to
appear in perfectly good code make it uglier.
For example, suppose *you* know that it's perfectly fine to treat an
undef as a 0 in a particular situation. So you write:
my $c = $a + $b;
even if $a or $b might be undef.
Works fine, as long as warnings aren't turned on. If they are, you
end up writing:
my $c = ($a || 0) + ($b || 0);
which looks downright ugly. And yes, I've seen a *ton* of code coded
like this to get around the warnings. Far far far too much wasted
effort.
Oh yeah, I could go look for the right thing to say to "no warnings
FOO", but I also consider *that* to be ugly clutter, since some style
guide would probably want me to scope that to the smallest range again,
so I'd have to introduce an artificial scope block.
Warnings should be *off* in production (to keep a Perl upgrade from
yelling at perfectly good production code).
Warnings might be *off* all the time when experts program.
Warnings are for beginners. Only. And anyone who religiously says
"warnings are mandatory" needs to be distrusted slightly, I think.
print "Just another Perl hacker,"; # the original
--
Randal L. Schwartz - Stonehenge Consulting Services, Inc. - +1 503 777 0095
<merlyn@stonehenge.com> <URL:http://www.stonehenge.com/merlyn/>
Smalltalk/Perl/Unix consulting, Technical writing, Comedy, etc. etc.
See http://methodsandmessages.posterous.com/ for Smalltalk discussion
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 17 Jun 2011 17:35:34 -0400
From: "Uri Guttman" <uri@StemSystems.com>
Subject: Re: [RegEx] Optional parameter
Message-Id: <87tybojg49.fsf@quad.sysarch.com>
>>>>> "RLS" == Randal L Schwartz <merlyn@stonehenge.com> writes:
>>>>> "David" == David Harmon <source@netcom.com> writes:
David> On Sun, 12 Jun 2011 17:11:10 -0700 in comp.lang.perl.misc,
David> merlyn@stonehenge.com (Randal L. Schwartz) wrote,
>>> I'm actually of the camp that "use warnings" does
>>> more harm than good for the expert programmer.
RLS> For example, suppose *you* know that it's perfectly fine to treat an
RLS> undef as a 0 in a particular situation. So you write:
RLS> my $c = $a + $b;
RLS> even if $a or $b might be undef.
RLS> Works fine, as long as warnings aren't turned on. If they are, you
RLS> end up writing:
RLS> my $c = ($a || 0) + ($b || 0);
RLS> which looks downright ugly. And yes, I've seen a *ton* of code coded
RLS> like this to get around the warnings. Far far far too much wasted
RLS> effort.
i wouldn't wait until the + to handle the undef issue. i would deal with
it when $a is assigned from somewhere where undef is a possible value. i
want to know my data is always how i expect it to be. maybe 0 is value
but no value means i didn't get the data cleanly. a warning tells me
that.
RLS> Warnings should be *off* in production (to keep a Perl upgrade from
RLS> yelling at perfectly good production code).
RLS> Warnings might be *off* all the time when experts program.
RLS> Warnings are for beginners. Only. And anyone who religiously says
RLS> "warnings are mandatory" needs to be distrusted slightly, I think.
not mandatory. just understood for what they are. in Template::Simple i
disable undef warning in a tight scope since i know undef is going to be
seen in strings and i do want the conversion to '' with no
warnings. that is knowing when to disable it where it is majorly
beneficial. that is the difference i care about, knowing when or when
not to enable it. so i enable it all other times as i want to know i am
getting my data correctly.
uri
--
Uri Guttman ------ uri@stemsystems.com -------- http://www.sysarch.com --
----- Perl Code Review , Architecture, Development, Training, Support ------
--------- Gourmet Hot Cocoa Mix ---- http://bestfriendscocoa.com ---------
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 17 Jun 2011 14:50:58 -0700
From: merlyn@stonehenge.com (Randal L. Schwartz)
Subject: Re: [RegEx] Optional parameter
Message-Id: <8662o486v1.fsf@red.stonehenge.com>
>>>>> "Uri" == Uri Guttman <uri@StemSystems.com> writes:
RLS> Warnings are for beginners. Only. And anyone who religiously says
RLS> "warnings are mandatory" needs to be distrusted slightly, I think.
Uri> not mandatory. just understood for what they are.
Yes. For beginners, before they learn "use Test::More".
I can validate my code far better with a ".t" file than a warning will
*ever* do, and I can do it without working around the warnings that get
in my way. And I'm never going to accidentally fill up
/var/log/apache2/error.log with meaningless messages.
print "Just another Perl hacker,"; # the original
--
Randal L. Schwartz - Stonehenge Consulting Services, Inc. - +1 503 777 0095
<merlyn@stonehenge.com> <URL:http://www.stonehenge.com/merlyn/>
Smalltalk/Perl/Unix consulting, Technical writing, Comedy, etc. etc.
See http://methodsandmessages.posterous.com/ for Smalltalk discussion
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 17 Jun 2011 10:00:19 +0200
From: brian d foy <brian.d.foy@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: FAQ 2.6 What modules and extensions are available for Perl? What is CPAN? What does CPAN/src/... mean?
Message-Id: <170620111000195089%brian.d.foy@gmail.com>
In article <4dfafef5$0$23625$ed362ca5@nr5-q3a.newsreader.com>, Xho
Jingleheimerschmidt <xhoster@gmail.com> wrote:
> And the faq actually *is* dated unless it is kept updated. It's a fact,
> why hide it?
It's always dated. There's no way for it to have information that isn't
from the past. :)
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 16 Jun 2011 18:03:23 -0700
From: Xho Jingleheimerschmidt <xhoster@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: FAQ 2.6 What modules and extensions are available for Perl? What is CPAN? What does CPAN/src/... mean?
Message-Id: <4dfafef5$0$23625$ed362ca5@nr5-q3a.newsreader.com>
Ralph Malph wrote:
> Putting dates in the faq like this invariably makes the faq look dated
> unless
> the date and related info is kept updated.
And the faq actually *is* dated unless it is kept updated. It's a fact,
why hide it?
Why do you have a problem with the truth?
Xho
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 17 Jun 2011 11:12:29 -0400
From: Ralph Malph <ralph@happydays.com>
Subject: Re: FAQ 2.6 What modules and extensions are available for Perl? What is CPAN? What does CPAN/src/... mean?
Message-Id: <6e6d4$4dfb6edf$ce534406$12125@news.eurofeeds.com>
On 6/17/2011 4:00 AM, brian d foy wrote:
> In article<4dfafef5$0$23625$ed362ca5@nr5-q3a.newsreader.com>, Xho
> Jingleheimerschmidt<xhoster@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> And the faq actually *is* dated unless it is kept updated. It's a fact,
>> why hide it?
>
> It's always dated. There's no way for it to have information that isn't
> from the past. :)
*sigh*. I'll try one more time.
-5 years is a long time.
-CPAN stats from 2006 look bad.
-if you can't be bothered to update this entry than remove the date.
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 17 Jun 2011 07:38:07 +0200
From: Peter Makholm <peter@makholm.net>
Subject: Re: Howto pass the arguments to the procedure in the easier way
Message-Id: <877h8l81c0.fsf@vps1.hacking.dk>
Scottie <scottie383@gmail.com> writes:
> sub md5files {
> use File::Basename;
I consider this bad style. It looks like being part of the subroutine,
but actually is is called on compile time and imports names into the
package namespace and not just the subroutine.
//Makholm
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 17 Jun 2011 08:43:15 +0200
From: Josef Moellers <josef.moellers@ts.fujitsu.com>
Subject: Re: Howto pass the arguments to the procedure in the easier way
Message-Id: <itet23$kll$1@nntp.fujitsu-siemens.com>
Am 17.6.2011 schrub Uri Guttman:
>>>>>> "JG" == Jim Gibson <jimsgibson@gmail.com> writes:
>
> >> Is it possible to simplify my procedure? Could it be more perlish?
>
> JG> Simple is good. "Perlish"? Who cares.
>
> simpler perl is even better! :)
Code one still understands <insert favorite time span here> later is
best ;-)
Josef
--
These are my personal views and not those of Fujitsu Technology Solutions!
Josef Möllers (Pinguinpfleger bei FTS)
If failure had no penalty success would not be a prize (T. Pratchett)
Company Details: http://de.ts.fujitsu.com/imprint.html
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 17 Jun 2011 10:11:22 +0200
From: Wolf Behrenhoff <NoSpamPleaseButThisIsValid3@gmx.net>
Subject: Re: Howto pass the arguments to the procedure in the easier way
Message-Id: <4dfb0c2d$0$7613$9b4e6d93@newsspool1.arcor-online.net>
On 16.06.2011 21:45, Scottie wrote:
> Hi All!
>
> I have a procedure whose task is to count checksums for files that are
> a input argument in subroutine. Argument can be:
> - Fll files ('*') in a directory ($DIR).
> - Files with the extensions, for example: '*.foo *.bar *.pl *.pm'
> - Files with names beginning, for example: 'FOO* bar*'
Others have already commented on the code.
Just three more points from my side:
1. Are filenames with spaces handles correctly and how do you pass a
wildcard with a space in it? I would not allow wildcards as parameters
but accept a list of filenames instead.
2. Are you using Digest::MD5? Why not?
3. Your description "I have a procedure whose task is to count checksums
for files that are a input argument in subroutine" does not 100% match
your sub md5files because your sub has additional functionality: it
overwrites the checksums.md5!
- Wolf
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 17 Jun 2011 02:16:41 -0500
From: tadmc@seesig.invalid
Subject: Posting Guidelines for comp.lang.perl.misc ($Revision: 1.9 $)
Message-Id: <48OdnTYLAtTEYmfQnZ2dnUVZ5j-dnZ2d@giganews.com>
Outline
Before posting to comp.lang.perl.misc
Must
- Check the Perl Frequently Asked Questions (FAQ)
- Check the other standard Perl docs (*.pod)
Really Really Should
- Lurk for a while before posting
- Search a Usenet archive
If You Like
- Check Other Resources
Posting to comp.lang.perl.misc
Is there a better place to ask your question?
- Question should be about Perl, not about the application area
How to participate (post) in the clpmisc community
- Carefully choose the contents of your Subject header
- Use an effective followup style
- Speak Perl rather than English, when possible
- Ask perl to help you
- Do not re-type Perl code
- Provide enough information
- Do not provide too much information
- Do not post binaries, HTML, or MIME
Social faux pas to avoid
- Asking a Frequently Asked Question
- Asking a question easily answered by a cursory doc search
- Asking for emailed answers
- Beware of saying "doesn't work"
- Sending a "stealth" Cc copy
Be extra cautious when you get upset
- Count to ten before composing a followup when you are upset
- Count to ten after composing and before posting when you are upset
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Posting Guidelines for comp.lang.perl.misc ($Revision: 1.9 $)
This newsgroup, commonly called clpmisc, is a technical newsgroup
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Try doing a word-search in the standard docs for some words/phrases
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Lurk for a while before posting
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Search a Usenet archive
There are tens of thousands of Perl programmers. It is very likely
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One such searchable archive is:
http://groups.google.com/advanced_search
If You Like
This section describes things that you *can* do before posting to
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Check Other Resources
You may want to check in books or on web sites to see if you can
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Posting to comp.lang.perl.misc
There can be 200 messages in clpmisc in a single day. Nobody is going to
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For more information on choosing a Subject see "Choosing Good
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or I have $var = <DATA> (and show the data line).
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Provide enough information
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These features are a really big bonus toward your question winning
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First make a short (less than 20-30 lines) and *complete* program
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Describe *precisely* the input to your program. Also provide example
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If you have no idea at all of how to code up your situation, be sure
to at least describe the 2 things that you *do* know: input and
desired output.
Do not provide too much information
Do not just post your entire program for debugging. Most especially
do not post someone *else's* entire program.
Do not post binaries, HTML, or MIME
clpmisc is a text only newsgroup. If you have images or binaries
that explain your question, put them in a publically accessible
place (like a Web server) and provide a pointer to that location. If
you include code, cut and paste it directly in the message body.
Don't attach anything to the message. Don't post vcards or HTML.
Many people (and even some Usenet servers) will automatically filter
out such messages. Many people will not be able to easily read your
post. Plain text is something everyone can read.
Social faux pas to avoid
The first two below are symptoms of lots of FAQ asking here in clpmisc.
It happens so often that folks will assume that it is happening yet
again. If you have looked but not found, or found but didn't understand
the docs, say so in your article.
Asking a Frequently Asked Question
It should be understood that you may have missed the applicable FAQ
when you checked, which is not a big deal. But if the Frequently
Asked Question is worded similar to your question, folks will assume
that you did not look at all. Don't become indignant at pointers to
the FAQ, particularly if it solves your problem.
Asking a question easily answered by a cursory doc search
If folks think you have not even tried the obvious step of reading
the docs applicable to your problem, they are likely to become
annoyed.
If you are flamed for not checking when you *did* check, then just
shrug it off (and take the answer that you got).
Asking for emailed answers
Emailed answers benefit one person. Posted answers benefit the
entire community. If folks can take the time to answer your
question, then you can take the time to go get the answer in the
same place where you asked the question.
It is OK to ask for a *copy* of the answer to be emailed, but many
will ignore such requests anyway. If you munge your address, you
should never expect (or ask) to get email in response to a Usenet
post.
Ask the question here, get the answer here (maybe).
Beware of saying "doesn't work"
This is a "red flag" phrase. If you find yourself writing that,
pause and see if you can't describe what is not working without
saying "doesn't work". That is, describe how it is not what you
want.
Sending a "stealth" Cc copy
A "stealth Cc" is when you both email and post a reply without
indicating *in the body* that you are doing so.
Be extra cautious when you get upset
Count to ten before composing a followup when you are upset
This is recommended in all Usenet newsgroups. Here in clpmisc, most
flaming sub-threads are not about any feature of Perl at all! They
are most often for what was seen as a breach of netiquette. If you
have lurked for a bit, then you will know what is expected and won't
make such posts in the first place.
But if you get upset, wait a while before writing your followup. I
recommend waiting at least 30 minutes.
Count to ten after composing and before posting when you are upset
After you have written your followup, wait *another* 30 minutes
before committing yourself by posting it. You cannot take it back
once it has been said.
AUTHOR
Tad McClellan and many others on the comp.lang.perl.misc newsgroup.
--
Tad McClellan
email: perl -le "print scalar reverse qq/moc.liamg\100cm.j.dat/"
The above message is a Usenet post.
I don't recall having given anyone permission to use it on a Web site.
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 17 Jun 2011 11:04:30 -0400
From: Ralph Malph <ralph@happydays.com>
Subject: Re: Posting Guidelines for comp.lang.perl.misc ($Revision: 1.9 $)
Message-Id: <5748e$4dfb6d00$ce534406$7455@news.eurofeeds.com>
> Social faux pas to avoid
Be sure to avoid auto posting poorly written essays on meta-subjects
such as "how to post".
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 17 Jun 2011 00:24:13 -0700
From: Xho Jingleheimerschmidt <xhoster@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Unicode labels with Chart::Composite
Message-Id: <4dfafefd$0$23625$ed362ca5@nr5-q3a.newsreader.com>
David Combs wrote:
..
>
> If people here do know about R, and think it valuable,
> at least for super-powerful graphics (charts, Chernov faces,
> box plots, you name it), and it isn't already in CPAN --
> well, should it be?
Are you talking about R itself, or an unnamed module that glues it
together with Perl? If R itself, why would it be in CPAN? It is not a
Perl module, and is not written in Perl. Putting R into CPAN would be
about as weird as putting Perl into CRAN would be.
Xho
------------------------------
Date: 6 Apr 2001 21:33:47 GMT (Last modified)
From: Perl-Users-Request@ruby.oce.orst.edu (Perl-Users-Digest Admin)
Subject: Digest Administrivia (Last modified: 6 Apr 01)
Message-Id: <null>
Administrivia:
To submit articles to comp.lang.perl.announce, send your article to
clpa@perl.com.
Back issues are available via anonymous ftp from
ftp://cil-www.oce.orst.edu/pub/perl/old-digests.
#For other requests pertaining to the digest, send mail to
#perl-users-request@ruby.oce.orst.edu. Do not waste your time or mine
#sending perl questions to the -request address, I don't have time to
#answer them even if I did know the answer.
------------------------------
End of Perl-Users Digest V11 Issue 3418
***************************************
