[32135] in Perl-Users-Digest
Perl-Users Digest, Issue: 3400 Volume: 11
daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (Perl-Users Digest)
Fri Jun 3 16:14:26 2011
Date: Fri, 3 Jun 2011 13:14:14 -0700 (PDT)
From: Perl-Users Digest <Perl-Users-Request@ruby.OCE.ORST.EDU>
To: Perl-Users@ruby.OCE.ORST.EDU (Perl-Users Digest)
Perl-Users Digest Fri, 3 Jun 2011 Volume: 11 Number: 3400
Today's topics:
help!! <ralph@happydays.com>
Digest Administrivia (Last modified: 6 Apr 01) (Perl-Users-Digest Admin)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Fri, 03 Jun 2011 10:52:18 -0400
From: Ralph Malph <ralph@happydays.com>
Subject: help!!
Message-Id: <92dc5$4de8f524$ce534406$15907@news.eurofeeds.com>
Is it ok if I ask a question about getting help?
What will cause my script not to work?
Why isn't anyone helping me? This forum seems to be mostly faqs and
guidelines.
Do people answer questions here anymore?
On 5/24/2011 3:16 AM, tadmc@seesig.invalid wrote:
> Outline
> Before posting to comp.lang.perl.misc
> Must
> - Check the Perl Frequently Asked Questions (FAQ)
> - Check the other standard Perl docs (*.pod)
> Really Really Should
> - Lurk for a while before posting
> - Search a Usenet archive
> If You Like
> - Check Other Resources
> Posting to comp.lang.perl.misc
> Is there a better place to ask your question?
> - Question should be about Perl, not about the application area
> How to participate (post) in the clpmisc community
> - Carefully choose the contents of your Subject header
> - Use an effective followup style
> - Speak Perl rather than English, when possible
> - Ask perl to help you
> - Do not re-type Perl code
> - Provide enough information
> - Do not provide too much information
> - Do not post binaries, HTML, or MIME
> Social faux pas to avoid
> - Asking a Frequently Asked Question
> - Asking a question easily answered by a cursory doc search
> - Asking for emailed answers
> - Beware of saying "doesn't work"
> - Sending a "stealth" Cc copy
> Be extra cautious when you get upset
> - Count to ten before composing a followup when you are upset
> - Count to ten after composing and before posting when you
are upset
> -----------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Posting Guidelines for comp.lang.perl.misc ($Revision: 1.9 $)
> This newsgroup, commonly called clpmisc, is a technical newsgroup
> intended to be used for discussion of Perl related issues
(except job
> postings), whether it be comments or questions.
>
> As you would expect, clpmisc discussions are usually very
technical in
> nature and there are conventions for conduct in technical newsgroups
> going somewhat beyond those in non-technical newsgroups.
>
> The article at:
>
> http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html
>
> describes how to get answers from technical people in general.
>
> This article describes things that you should, and should not, do to
> increase your chances of getting an answer to your Perl
question. It is
> available in POD, HTML and plain text formats at:
>
> http://www.rehabitation.com/clpmisc.shtml
>
> For more information about netiquette in general, see the
"Netiquette
> Guidelines" at:
>
> http://andrew2.andrew.cmu.edu/rfc/rfc1855.html
>
> A note to newsgroup "regulars":
>
> Do not use these guidelines as a "license to flame" or other
> meanness. It is possible that a poster is unaware of things
> discussed here. Give them the benefit of the doubt, and just
> help them learn how to post, rather than assume that they do
> know and are being the "bad kind" of Lazy.
>
> A note about technical terms used here:
>
> In this document, we use words like "must" and "should" as
> they're used in technical conversation (such as you will
> encounter in this newsgroup). When we say that you *must* do
> something, we mean that if you don't do that something, then
> it's unlikely that you will benefit much from this group.
> We're not bossing you around; we're making the point without
> lots of words.
>
> Do *NOT* send email to the maintainer of these guidelines. It
will be
> discarded unread. The guidelines belong to the newsgroup so all
> discussion should appear in the newsgroup. I am just the
secretary that
> writes down the consensus of the group.
>
> Before posting to comp.lang.perl.misc
> Must
> This section describes things that you *must* do before posting to
> clpmisc, in order to maximize your chances of getting meaningful
replies
> to your inquiry and to avoid getting flamed for being lazy and
trying to
> have others do your work.
>
> The perl distribution includes documentation that is copied to
your hard
> drive when you install perl. Also installed is a program for looking
> things up in that (and other) documentation named 'perldoc'.
>
> You should either find out where the docs got installed on your
system,
> or use perldoc to find them for you. Type "perldoc perldoc" to
learn how
> to use perldoc itself. Type "perldoc perl" to start reading Perl's
> standard documentation.
>
> Check the Perl Frequently Asked Questions (FAQ)
> Checking the FAQ before posting is required in Big 8
newsgroups in
> general, there is nothing clpmisc-specific about this
requirement.
> You are expected to do this in nearly all newsgroups.
>
> You can use the "-q" switch with perldoc to do a word search
of the
> questions in the Perl FAQs.
>
> Check the other standard Perl docs (*.pod)
> The perl distribution comes with much more documentation than is
> available for most other newsgroups, so in clpmisc you
should also
> see if you can find an answer in the other (non-FAQ)
standard docs
> before posting.
>
> It is *not* required, or even expected, that you actually *read*
all of
> Perl's standard docs, only that you spend a few minutes
searching them
> before posting.
>
> Try doing a word-search in the standard docs for some words/phrases
> taken from your problem statement or from your very carefully worded
> "Subject:" header.
>
> Really Really Should
> This section describes things that you *really should* do before
posting
> to clpmisc.
>
> Lurk for a while before posting
> This is very important and expected in all newsgroups.
Lurking means
> to monitor a newsgroup for a period to become familiar with
local
> customs. Each newsgroup has specific customs and rituals.
Knowing
> these before you participate will help avoid embarrassing social
> situations. Consider yourself to be a foreigner at first!
>
> Search a Usenet archive
> There are tens of thousands of Perl programmers. It is very
likely
> that your question has already been asked (and answered).
See if you
> can find where it has already been answered.
>
> One such searchable archive is:
>
> http://groups.google.com/advanced_search
>
> If You Like
> This section describes things that you *can* do before posting to
> clpmisc.
>
> Check Other Resources
> You may want to check in books or on web sites to see if you can
> find the answer to your question.
>
> But you need to consider the source of such information:
there are a
> lot of very poor Perl books and web sites, and several good ones
> too, of course.
>
> Posting to comp.lang.perl.misc
> There can be 200 messages in clpmisc in a single day. Nobody is
going to
> read every article. They must decide somehow which articles they are
> going to read, and which they will skip.
>
> Your post is in competition with 199 other posts. You need to "win"
> before a person who can help you will even read your question.
>
> These sections describe how you can help keep your article from
being
> one of the "skipped" ones.
>
> Is there a better place to ask your question?
> Question should be about Perl, not about the application area
> It can be difficult to separate out where your problem
really is,
> but you should make a conscious effort to post to the most
> applicable newsgroup. That is, after all, where you are the most
> likely to find the people who know how to answer your question.
>
> Being able to "partition" a problem is an essential skill for
> effectively troubleshooting programming problems. If you
don't get
> that right, you end up looking for answers in the wrong places.
>
> It should be understood that you may not know that the root
of your
> problem is not Perl-related (the two most frequent ones are
CGI and
> Operating System related), so off-topic postings will happen
from
> time to time. Be gracious when someone helps you find a
better place
> to ask your question by pointing you to a more applicable
newsgroup.
>
> How to participate (post) in the clpmisc community
> Carefully choose the contents of your Subject header
> You have 40 precious characters of Subject to win out and be
one of
> the posts that gets read. Don't waste them. Take care while
> composing them, they are the key that opens the door to
getting an
> answer.
>
> Spend them indicating what aspect of Perl others will find
if they
> should decide to read your article.
>
> Do not spend them indicating "experience level" (guru,
newbie...).
>
> Do not spend them pleading (please read, urgent, help!...).
>
> Do not spend them on non-Subjects (Perl question, one-word
> Subject...)
>
> For more information on choosing a Subject see "Choosing Good
> Subject Lines":
>
> http://www.cpan.org/authors/id/D/DM/DMR/subjects.post
>
> Part of the beauty of newsgroup dynamics, is that you can
contribute
> to the community with your very first post! If your choice of
> Subject leads a fellow Perler to find the thread you are
starting,
> then even asking a question helps us all.
>
> Use an effective followup style
> When composing a followup, quote only enough text to
establish the
> context for the comments that you will add. Always indicate who
> wrote the quoted material. Never quote an entire article. Never
> quote a .signature (unless that is what you are commenting on).
>
> Intersperse your comments *following* each section of quoted
text to
> which they relate. Unappreciated followup styles are
referred to as
> "top-posting", "Jeopardy" (because the answer comes before the
> question), or "TOFU" (Text Over, Fullquote Under).
>
> Reversing the chronology of the dialog makes it much harder to
> understand (some folks won't even read it if written in that
style).
> For more information on quoting style, see:
>
> http://web.presby.edu/~nnqadmin/nnq/nquote.html
>
> Speak Perl rather than English, when possible
> Perl is much more precise than natural language. Saying it
in Perl
> instead will avoid misunderstanding your question or problem.
>
> Do not say: I have variable with "foo\tbar" in it.
>
> Instead say: I have $var = "foo\tbar", or I have $var =
'foo\tbar',
> or I have $var =<DATA> (and show the data line).
>
> Ask perl to help you
> You can ask perl itself to help you find common programming
mistakes
> by doing two things: enable warnings (perldoc warnings) and
enable
> "strict"ures (perldoc strict).
>
> You should not bother the hundreds/thousands of readers of the
> newsgroup without first seeing if a machine can help you
find your
> problem. It is demeaning to be asked to do the work of a
machine. It
> will annoy the readers of your article.
>
> You can look up any of the messages that perl might issue to
find
> out what the message means and how to resolve the potential
mistake
> (perldoc perldiag). If you would like perl to look them up
for you,
> you can put "use diagnostics;" near the top of your program.
>
> Do not re-type Perl code
> Use copy/paste or your editor's "import" function rather than
> attempting to type in your code. If you make a typo you will get
> followups about your typos instead of about the question you are
> trying to get answered.
>
> Provide enough information
> If you do the things in this item, you will have an
Extremely Good
> chance of getting people to try and help you with your problem!
> These features are a really big bonus toward your question
winning
> out over all of the other posts that you are competing with.
>
> First make a short (less than 20-30 lines) and *complete*
program
> that illustrates the problem you are having. People should
be able
> to run your program by copy/pasting the code from your
article. (You
> will find that doing this step very often reveals your problem
> directly. Leading to an answer much more quickly and
reliably than
> posting to Usenet.)
>
> Describe *precisely* the input to your program. Also provide
example
> input data for your program. If you need to show file input,
use the
> __DATA__ token (perldata.pod) to provide the file contents
inside of
> your Perl program.
>
> Show the output (including the verbatim text of any messages) of
> your program.
>
> Describe how you want the output to be different from what
you are
> getting.
>
> If you have no idea at all of how to code up your situation,
be sure
> to at least describe the 2 things that you *do* know: input and
> desired output.
>
> Do not provide too much information
> Do not just post your entire program for debugging. Most
especially
> do not post someone *else's* entire program.
>
> Do not post binaries, HTML, or MIME
> clpmisc is a text only newsgroup. If you have images or binaries
> that explain your question, put them in a publically accessible
> place (like a Web server) and provide a pointer to that
location. If
> you include code, cut and paste it directly in the message body.
> Don't attach anything to the message. Don't post vcards or HTML.
> Many people (and even some Usenet servers) will
automatically filter
> out such messages. Many people will not be able to easily
read your
> post. Plain text is something everyone can read.
>
> Social faux pas to avoid
> The first two below are symptoms of lots of FAQ asking here in
clpmisc.
> It happens so often that folks will assume that it is happening yet
> again. If you have looked but not found, or found but didn't
understand
> the docs, say so in your article.
>
> Asking a Frequently Asked Question
> It should be understood that you may have missed the
applicable FAQ
> when you checked, which is not a big deal. But if the Frequently
> Asked Question is worded similar to your question, folks
will assume
> that you did not look at all. Don't become indignant at
pointers to
> the FAQ, particularly if it solves your problem.
>
> Asking a question easily answered by a cursory doc search
> If folks think you have not even tried the obvious step of
reading
> the docs applicable to your problem, they are likely to become
> annoyed.
>
> If you are flamed for not checking when you *did* check,
then just
> shrug it off (and take the answer that you got).
>
> Asking for emailed answers
> Emailed answers benefit one person. Posted answers benefit the
> entire community. If folks can take the time to answer your
> question, then you can take the time to go get the answer in the
> same place where you asked the question.
>
> It is OK to ask for a *copy* of the answer to be emailed,
but many
> will ignore such requests anyway. If you munge your address, you
> should never expect (or ask) to get email in response to a
Usenet
> post.
>
> Ask the question here, get the answer here (maybe).
>
> Beware of saying "doesn't work"
> This is a "red flag" phrase. If you find yourself writing that,
> pause and see if you can't describe what is not working without
> saying "doesn't work". That is, describe how it is not what you
> want.
>
> Sending a "stealth" Cc copy
> A "stealth Cc" is when you both email and post a reply without
> indicating *in the body* that you are doing so.
>
> Be extra cautious when you get upset
> Count to ten before composing a followup when you are upset
> This is recommended in all Usenet newsgroups. Here in
clpmisc, most
> flaming sub-threads are not about any feature of Perl at
all! They
> are most often for what was seen as a breach of netiquette.
If you
> have lurked for a bit, then you will know what is expected
and won't
> make such posts in the first place.
>
> But if you get upset, wait a while before writing your
followup. I
> recommend waiting at least 30 minutes.
>
> Count to ten after composing and before posting when you are upset
> After you have written your followup, wait *another* 30 minutes
> before committing yourself by posting it. You cannot take it
back
> once it has been said.
>
> AUTHOR
> Tad McClellan and many others on the comp.lang.perl.misc newsgroup.
>
>--
>Tad McClellan
>email: perl -le "print scalar reverse qq/moc.liamg\100cm.j.dat/"
>The above message is a Usenet post.
>I don't recall having given anyone permission to use it on a Web site.
On 5/27/2011 3:16 AM, tadmc@seesig.invalid wrote:
> Outline
> Before posting to comp.lang.perl.misc
> Must
> - Check the Perl Frequently Asked Questions (FAQ)
> - Check the other standard Perl docs (*.pod)
> Really Really Should
> - Lurk for a while before posting
> - Search a Usenet archive
> If You Like
> - Check Other Resources
> Posting to comp.lang.perl.misc
> Is there a better place to ask your question?
> - Question should be about Perl, not about the application area
> How to participate (post) in the clpmisc community
> - Carefully choose the contents of your Subject header
> - Use an effective followup style
> - Speak Perl rather than English, when possible
> - Ask perl to help you
> - Do not re-type Perl code
> - Provide enough information
> - Do not provide too much information
> - Do not post binaries, HTML, or MIME
> Social faux pas to avoid
> - Asking a Frequently Asked Question
> - Asking a question easily answered by a cursory doc search
> - Asking for emailed answers
> - Beware of saying "doesn't work"
> - Sending a "stealth" Cc copy
> Be extra cautious when you get upset
> - Count to ten before composing a followup when you are upset
> - Count to ten after composing and before posting when you
are upset
> -----------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Posting Guidelines for comp.lang.perl.misc ($Revision: 1.9 $)
> This newsgroup, commonly called clpmisc, is a technical newsgroup
> intended to be used for discussion of Perl related issues
(except job
> postings), whether it be comments or questions.
>
> As you would expect, clpmisc discussions are usually very
technical in
> nature and there are conventions for conduct in technical newsgroups
> going somewhat beyond those in non-technical newsgroups.
>
> The article at:
>
> http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html
>
> describes how to get answers from technical people in general.
>
> This article describes things that you should, and should not, do to
> increase your chances of getting an answer to your Perl
question. It is
> available in POD, HTML and plain text formats at:
>
> http://www.rehabitation.com/clpmisc.shtml
>
> For more information about netiquette in general, see the
"Netiquette
> Guidelines" at:
>
> http://andrew2.andrew.cmu.edu/rfc/rfc1855.html
>
> A note to newsgroup "regulars":
>
> Do not use these guidelines as a "license to flame" or other
> meanness. It is possible that a poster is unaware of things
> discussed here. Give them the benefit of the doubt, and just
> help them learn how to post, rather than assume that they do
> know and are being the "bad kind" of Lazy.
>
> A note about technical terms used here:
>
> In this document, we use words like "must" and "should" as
> they're used in technical conversation (such as you will
> encounter in this newsgroup). When we say that you *must* do
> something, we mean that if you don't do that something, then
> it's unlikely that you will benefit much from this group.
> We're not bossing you around; we're making the point without
> lots of words.
>
> Do *NOT* send email to the maintainer of these guidelines. It
will be
> discarded unread. The guidelines belong to the newsgroup so all
> discussion should appear in the newsgroup. I am just the
secretary that
> writes down the consensus of the group.
>
> Before posting to comp.lang.perl.misc
> Must
> This section describes things that you *must* do before posting to
> clpmisc, in order to maximize your chances of getting meaningful
replies
> to your inquiry and to avoid getting flamed for being lazy and
trying to
> have others do your work.
>
> The perl distribution includes documentation that is copied to
your hard
> drive when you install perl. Also installed is a program for looking
> things up in that (and other) documentation named 'perldoc'.
>
> You should either find out where the docs got installed on your
system,
> or use perldoc to find them for you. Type "perldoc perldoc" to
learn how
> to use perldoc itself. Type "perldoc perl" to start reading Perl's
> standard documentation.
>
> Check the Perl Frequently Asked Questions (FAQ)
> Checking the FAQ before posting is required in Big 8
newsgroups in
> general, there is nothing clpmisc-specific about this
requirement.
> You are expected to do this in nearly all newsgroups.
>
> You can use the "-q" switch with perldoc to do a word search
of the
> questions in the Perl FAQs.
>
> Check the other standard Perl docs (*.pod)
> The perl distribution comes with much more documentation than is
> available for most other newsgroups, so in clpmisc you
should also
> see if you can find an answer in the other (non-FAQ)
standard docs
> before posting.
>
> It is *not* required, or even expected, that you actually *read*
all of
> Perl's standard docs, only that you spend a few minutes
searching them
> before posting.
>
> Try doing a word-search in the standard docs for some words/phrases
> taken from your problem statement or from your very carefully worded
> "Subject:" header.
>
> Really Really Should
> This section describes things that you *really should* do before
posting
> to clpmisc.
>
> Lurk for a while before posting
> This is very important and expected in all newsgroups.
Lurking means
> to monitor a newsgroup for a period to become familiar with
local
> customs. Each newsgroup has specific customs and rituals.
Knowing
> these before you participate will help avoid embarrassing social
> situations. Consider yourself to be a foreigner at first!
>
> Search a Usenet archive
> There are tens of thousands of Perl programmers. It is very
likely
> that your question has already been asked (and answered).
See if you
> can find where it has already been answered.
>
> One such searchable archive is:
>
> http://groups.google.com/advanced_search
>
> If You Like
> This section describes things that you *can* do before posting to
> clpmisc.
>
> Check Other Resources
> You may want to check in books or on web sites to see if you can
> find the answer to your question.
>
> But you need to consider the source of such information:
there are a
> lot of very poor Perl books and web sites, and several good ones
> too, of course.
>
> Posting to comp.lang.perl.misc
> There can be 200 messages in clpmisc in a single day. Nobody is
going to
> read every article. They must decide somehow which articles they are
> going to read, and which they will skip.
>
> Your post is in competition with 199 other posts. You need to "win"
> before a person who can help you will even read your question.
>
> These sections describe how you can help keep your article from
being
> one of the "skipped" ones.
>
> Is there a better place to ask your question?
> Question should be about Perl, not about the application area
> It can be difficult to separate out where your problem
really is,
> but you should make a conscious effort to post to the most
> applicable newsgroup. That is, after all, where you are the most
> likely to find the people who know how to answer your question.
>
> Being able to "partition" a problem is an essential skill for
> effectively troubleshooting programming problems. If you
don't get
> that right, you end up looking for answers in the wrong places.
>
> It should be understood that you may not know that the root
of your
> problem is not Perl-related (the two most frequent ones are
CGI and
> Operating System related), so off-topic postings will happen
from
> time to time. Be gracious when someone helps you find a
better place
> to ask your question by pointing you to a more applicable
newsgroup.
>
> How to participate (post) in the clpmisc community
> Carefully choose the contents of your Subject header
> You have 40 precious characters of Subject to win out and be
one of
> the posts that gets read. Don't waste them. Take care while
> composing them, they are the key that opens the door to
getting an
> answer.
>
> Spend them indicating what aspect of Perl others will find
if they
> should decide to read your article.
>
> Do not spend them indicating "experience level" (guru,
newbie...).
>
> Do not spend them pleading (please read, urgent, help!...).
>
> Do not spend them on non-Subjects (Perl question, one-word
> Subject...)
>
> For more information on choosing a Subject see "Choosing Good
> Subject Lines":
>
> http://www.cpan.org/authors/id/D/DM/DMR/subjects.post
>
> Part of the beauty of newsgroup dynamics, is that you can
contribute
> to the community with your very first post! If your choice of
> Subject leads a fellow Perler to find the thread you are
starting,
> then even asking a question helps us all.
>
> Use an effective followup style
> When composing a followup, quote only enough text to
establish the
> context for the comments that you will add. Always indicate who
> wrote the quoted material. Never quote an entire article. Never
> quote a .signature (unless that is what you are commenting on).
>
> Intersperse your comments *following* each section of quoted
text to
> which they relate. Unappreciated followup styles are
referred to as
> "top-posting", "Jeopardy" (because the answer comes before the
> question), or "TOFU" (Text Over, Fullquote Under).
>
> Reversing the chronology of the dialog makes it much harder to
> understand (some folks won't even read it if written in that
style).
> For more information on quoting style, see:
>
> http://web.presby.edu/~nnqadmin/nnq/nquote.html
>
> Speak Perl rather than English, when possible
> Perl is much more precise than natural language. Saying it
in Perl
> instead will avoid misunderstanding your question or problem.
>
> Do not say: I have variable with "foo\tbar" in it.
>
> Instead say: I have $var = "foo\tbar", or I have $var =
'foo\tbar',
> or I have $var =<DATA> (and show the data line).
>
> Ask perl to help you
> You can ask perl itself to help you find common programming
mistakes
> by doing two things: enable warnings (perldoc warnings) and
enable
> "strict"ures (perldoc strict).
>
> You should not bother the hundreds/thousands of readers of the
> newsgroup without first seeing if a machine can help you
find your
> problem. It is demeaning to be asked to do the work of a
machine. It
> will annoy the readers of your article.
>
> You can look up any of the messages that perl might issue to
find
> out what the message means and how to resolve the potential
mistake
> (perldoc perldiag). If you would like perl to look them up
for you,
> you can put "use diagnostics;" near the top of your program.
>
> Do not re-type Perl code
> Use copy/paste or your editor's "import" function rather than
> attempting to type in your code. If you make a typo you will get
> followups about your typos instead of about the question you are
> trying to get answered.
>
> Provide enough information
> If you do the things in this item, you will have an
Extremely Good
> chance of getting people to try and help you with your problem!
> These features are a really big bonus toward your question
winning
> out over all of the other posts that you are competing with.
>
> First make a short (less than 20-30 lines) and *complete*
program
> that illustrates the problem you are having. People should
be able
> to run your program by copy/pasting the code from your
article. (You
> will find that doing this step very often reveals your problem
> directly. Leading to an answer much more quickly and
reliably than
> posting to Usenet.)
>
> Describe *precisely* the input to your program. Also provide
example
> input data for your program. If you need to show file input,
use the
> __DATA__ token (perldata.pod) to provide the file contents
inside of
> your Perl program.
>
> Show the output (including the verbatim text of any messages) of
> your program.
>
> Describe how you want the output to be different from what
you are
> getting.
>
> If you have no idea at all of how to code up your situation,
be sure
> to at least describe the 2 things that you *do* know: input and
> desired output.
>
> Do not provide too much information
> Do not just post your entire program for debugging. Most
especially
> do not post someone *else's* entire program.
>
> Do not post binaries, HTML, or MIME
> clpmisc is a text only newsgroup. If you have images or binaries
> that explain your question, put them in a publically accessible
> place (like a Web server) and provide a pointer to that
location. If
> you include code, cut and paste it directly in the message body.
> Don't attach anything to the message. Don't post vcards or HTML.
> Many people (and even some Usenet servers) will
automatically filter
> out such messages. Many people will not be able to easily
read your
> post. Plain text is something everyone can read.
>
> Social faux pas to avoid
> The first two below are symptoms of lots of FAQ asking here in
clpmisc.
> It happens so often that folks will assume that it is happening yet
> again. If you have looked but not found, or found but didn't
understand
> the docs, say so in your article.
>
> Asking a Frequently Asked Question
> It should be understood that you may have missed the
applicable FAQ
> when you checked, which is not a big deal. But if the Frequently
> Asked Question is worded similar to your question, folks
will assume
> that you did not look at all. Don't become indignant at
pointers to
> the FAQ, particularly if it solves your problem.
>
> Asking a question easily answered by a cursory doc search
> If folks think you have not even tried the obvious step of
reading
> the docs applicable to your problem, they are likely to become
> annoyed.
>
> If you are flamed for not checking when you *did* check,
then just
> shrug it off (and take the answer that you got).
>
> Asking for emailed answers
> Emailed answers benefit one person. Posted answers benefit the
> entire community. If folks can take the time to answer your
> question, then you can take the time to go get the answer in the
> same place where you asked the question.
>
> It is OK to ask for a *copy* of the answer to be emailed,
but many
> will ignore such requests anyway. If you munge your address, you
> should never expect (or ask) to get email in response to a
Usenet
> post.
>
> Ask the question here, get the answer here (maybe).
>
> Beware of saying "doesn't work"
> This is a "red flag" phrase. If you find yourself writing that,
> pause and see if you can't describe what is not working without
> saying "doesn't work". That is, describe how it is not what you
> want.
>
> Sending a "stealth" Cc copy
> A "stealth Cc" is when you both email and post a reply without
> indicating *in the body* that you are doing so.
>
> Be extra cautious when you get upset
> Count to ten before composing a followup when you are upset
> This is recommended in all Usenet newsgroups. Here in
clpmisc, most
> flaming sub-threads are not about any feature of Perl at
all! They
> are most often for what was seen as a breach of netiquette.
If you
> have lurked for a bit, then you will know what is expected
and won't
> make such posts in the first place.
>
> But if you get upset, wait a while before writing your
followup. I
> recommend waiting at least 30 minutes.
>
> Count to ten after composing and before posting when you are upset
> After you have written your followup, wait *another* 30 minutes
> before committing yourself by posting it. You cannot take it
back
> once it has been said.
>
> AUTHOR
> Tad McClellan and many others on the comp.lang.perl.misc newsgroup.
>
On 5/31/2011 3:16 AM, tadmc@seesig.invalid wrote:
> Outline
> Before posting to comp.lang.perl.misc
> Must
> - Check the Perl Frequently Asked Questions (FAQ)
> - Check the other standard Perl docs (*.pod)
> Really Really Should
> - Lurk for a while before posting
> - Search a Usenet archive
> If You Like
> - Check Other Resources
> Posting to comp.lang.perl.misc
> Is there a better place to ask your question?
> - Question should be about Perl, not about the application area
> How to participate (post) in the clpmisc community
> - Carefully choose the contents of your Subject header
> - Use an effective followup style
> - Speak Perl rather than English, when possible
> - Ask perl to help you
> - Do not re-type Perl code
> - Provide enough information
> - Do not provide too much information
> - Do not post binaries, HTML, or MIME
> Social faux pas to avoid
> - Asking a Frequently Asked Question
> - Asking a question easily answered by a cursory doc search
> - Asking for emailed answers
> - Beware of saying "doesn't work"
> - Sending a "stealth" Cc copy
> Be extra cautious when you get upset
> - Count to ten before composing a followup when you are upset
> - Count to ten after composing and before posting when you
are upset
> -----------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Posting Guidelines for comp.lang.perl.misc ($Revision: 1.9 $)
> This newsgroup, commonly called clpmisc, is a technical newsgroup
> intended to be used for discussion of Perl related issues
(except job
> postings), whether it be comments or questions.
>
> As you would expect, clpmisc discussions are usually very
technical in
> nature and there are conventions for conduct in technical newsgroups
> going somewhat beyond those in non-technical newsgroups.
>
> The article at:
>
> http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html
>
> describes how to get answers from technical people in general.
>
> This article describes things that you should, and should not, do to
> increase your chances of getting an answer to your Perl
question. It is
> available in POD, HTML and plain text formats at:
>
> http://www.rehabitation.com/clpmisc.shtml
>
> For more information about netiquette in general, see the
"Netiquette
> Guidelines" at:
>
> http://andrew2.andrew.cmu.edu/rfc/rfc1855.html
>
> A note to newsgroup "regulars":
>
> Do not use these guidelines as a "license to flame" or other
> meanness. It is possible that a poster is unaware of things
> discussed here. Give them the benefit of the doubt, and just
> help them learn how to post, rather than assume that they do
> know and are being the "bad kind" of Lazy.
>
> A note about technical terms used here:
>
> In this document, we use words like "must" and "should" as
> they're used in technical conversation (such as you will
> encounter in this newsgroup). When we say that you *must* do
> something, we mean that if you don't do that something, then
> it's unlikely that you will benefit much from this group.
> We're not bossing you around; we're making the point without
> lots of words.
>
> Do *NOT* send email to the maintainer of these guidelines. It
will be
> discarded unread. The guidelines belong to the newsgroup so all
> discussion should appear in the newsgroup. I am just the
secretary that
> writes down the consensus of the group.
>
> Before posting to comp.lang.perl.misc
> Must
> This section describes things that you *must* do before posting to
> clpmisc, in order to maximize your chances of getting meaningful
replies
> to your inquiry and to avoid getting flamed for being lazy and
trying to
> have others do your work.
>
> The perl distribution includes documentation that is copied to
your hard
> drive when you install perl. Also installed is a program for looking
> things up in that (and other) documentation named 'perldoc'.
>
> You should either find out where the docs got installed on your
system,
> or use perldoc to find them for you. Type "perldoc perldoc" to
learn how
> to use perldoc itself. Type "perldoc perl" to start reading Perl's
> standard documentation.
>
> Check the Perl Frequently Asked Questions (FAQ)
> Checking the FAQ before posting is required in Big 8
newsgroups in
> general, there is nothing clpmisc-specific about this
requirement.
> You are expected to do this in nearly all newsgroups.
>
> You can use the "-q" switch with perldoc to do a word search
of the
> questions in the Perl FAQs.
>
> Check the other standard Perl docs (*.pod)
> The perl distribution comes with much more documentation than is
> available for most other newsgroups, so in clpmisc you
should also
> see if you can find an answer in the other (non-FAQ)
standard docs
> before posting.
>
> It is *not* required, or even expected, that you actually *read*
all of
> Perl's standard docs, only that you spend a few minutes
searching them
> before posting.
>
> Try doing a word-search in the standard docs for some words/phrases
> taken from your problem statement or from your very carefully worded
> "Subject:" header.
>
> Really Really Should
> This section describes things that you *really should* do before
posting
> to clpmisc.
>
> Lurk for a while before posting
> This is very important and expected in all newsgroups.
Lurking means
> to monitor a newsgroup for a period to become familiar with
local
> customs. Each newsgroup has specific customs and rituals.
Knowing
> these before you participate will help avoid embarrassing social
> situations. Consider yourself to be a foreigner at first!
>
> Search a Usenet archive
> There are tens of thousands of Perl programmers. It is very
likely
> that your question has already been asked (and answered).
See if you
> can find where it has already been answered.
>
> One such searchable archive is:
>
> http://groups.google.com/advanced_search
>
> If You Like
> This section describes things that you *can* do before posting to
> clpmisc.
>
> Check Other Resources
> You may want to check in books or on web sites to see if you can
> find the answer to your question.
>
> But you need to consider the source of such information:
there are a
> lot of very poor Perl books and web sites, and several good ones
> too, of course.
>
> Posting to comp.lang.perl.misc
> There can be 200 messages in clpmisc in a single day. Nobody is
going to
> read every article. They must decide somehow which articles they are
> going to read, and which they will skip.
>
> Your post is in competition with 199 other posts. You need to "win"
> before a person who can help you will even read your question.
>
> These sections describe how you can help keep your article from
being
> one of the "skipped" ones.
>
> Is there a better place to ask your question?
> Question should be about Perl, not about the application area
> It can be difficult to separate out where your problem
really is,
> but you should make a conscious effort to post to the most
> applicable newsgroup. That is, after all, where you are the most
> likely to find the people who know how to answer your question.
>
> Being able to "partition" a problem is an essential skill for
> effectively troubleshooting programming problems. If you
don't get
> that right, you end up looking for answers in the wrong places.
>
> It should be understood that you may not know that the root
of your
> problem is not Perl-related (the two most frequent ones are
CGI and
> Operating System related), so off-topic postings will happen
from
> time to time. Be gracious when someone helps you find a
better place
> to ask your question by pointing you to a more applicable
newsgroup.
>
> How to participate (post) in the clpmisc community
> Carefully choose the contents of your Subject header
> You have 40 precious characters of Subject to win out and be
one of
> the posts that gets read. Don't waste them. Take care while
> composing them, they are the key that opens the door to
getting an
> answer.
>
> Spend them indicating what aspect of Perl others will find
if they
> should decide to read your article.
>
> Do not spend them indicating "experience level" (guru,
newbie...).
>
> Do not spend them pleading (please read, urgent, help!...).
>
> Do not spend them on non-Subjects (Perl question, one-word
> Subject...)
>
> For more information on choosing a Subject see "Choosing Good
> Subject Lines":
>
> http://www.cpan.org/authors/id/D/DM/DMR/subjects.post
>
> Part of the beauty of newsgroup dynamics, is that you can
contribute
> to the community with your very first post! If your choice of
> Subject leads a fellow Perler to find the thread you are
starting,
> then even asking a question helps us all.
>
> Use an effective followup style
> When composing a followup, quote only enough text to
establish the
> context for the comments that you will add. Always indicate who
> wrote the quoted material. Never quote an entire article. Never
> quote a .signature (unless that is what you are commenting on).
>
> Intersperse your comments *following* each section of quoted
text to
> which they relate. Unappreciated followup styles are
referred to as
> "top-posting", "Jeopardy" (because the answer comes before the
> question), or "TOFU" (Text Over, Fullquote Under).
>
> Reversing the chronology of the dialog makes it much harder to
> understand (some folks won't even read it if written in that
style).
> For more information on quoting style, see:
>
> http://web.presby.edu/~nnqadmin/nnq/nquote.html
>
> Speak Perl rather than English, when possible
> Perl is much more precise than natural language. Saying it
in Perl
> instead will avoid misunderstanding your question or problem.
>
> Do not say: I have variable with "foo\tbar" in it.
>
> Instead say: I have $var = "foo\tbar", or I have $var =
'foo\tbar',
> or I have $var =<DATA> (and show the data line).
>
> Ask perl to help you
> You can ask perl itself to help you find common programming
mistakes
> by doing two things: enable warnings (perldoc warnings) and
enable
> "strict"ures (perldoc strict).
>
> You should not bother the hundreds/thousands of readers of the
> newsgroup without first seeing if a machine can help you
find your
> problem. It is demeaning to be asked to do the work of a
machine. It
> will annoy the readers of your article.
>
> You can look up any of the messages that perl might issue to
find
> out what the message means and how to resolve the potential
mistake
> (perldoc perldiag). If you would like perl to look them up
for you,
> you can put "use diagnostics;" near the top of your program.
>
> Do not re-type Perl code
> Use copy/paste or your editor's "import" function rather than
> attempting to type in your code. If you make a typo you will get
> followups about your typos instead of about the question you are
> trying to get answered.
>
> Provide enough information
> If you do the things in this item, you will have an
Extremely Good
> chance of getting people to try and help you with your problem!
> These features are a really big bonus toward your question
winning
> out over all of the other posts that you are competing with.
>
> First make a short (less than 20-30 lines) and *complete*
program
> that illustrates the problem you are having. People should
be able
> to run your program by copy/pasting the code from your
article. (You
> will find that doing this step very often reveals your problem
> directly. Leading to an answer much more quickly and
reliably than
> posting to Usenet.)
>
> Describe *precisely* the input to your program. Also provide
example
> input data for your program. If you need to show file input,
use the
> __DATA__ token (perldata.pod) to provide the file contents
inside of
> your Perl program.
>
> Show the output (including the verbatim text of any messages) of
> your program.
>
> Describe how you want the output to be different from what
you are
> getting.
>
> If you have no idea at all of how to code up your situation,
be sure
> to at least describe the 2 things that you *do* know: input and
> desired output.
>
> Do not provide too much information
> Do not just post your entire program for debugging. Most
especially
> do not post someone *else's* entire program.
>
> Do not post binaries, HTML, or MIME
> clpmisc is a text only newsgroup. If you have images or binaries
> that explain your question, put them in a publically accessible
> place (like a Web server) and provide a pointer to that
location. If
> you include code, cut and paste it directly in the message body.
> Don't attach anything to the message. Don't post vcards or HTML.
> Many people (and even some Usenet servers) will
automatically filter
> out such messages. Many people will not be able to easily
read your
> post. Plain text is something everyone can read.
>
> Social faux pas to avoid
> The first two below are symptoms of lots of FAQ asking here in
clpmisc.
> It happens so often that folks will assume that it is happening yet
> again. If you have looked but not found, or found but didn't
understand
> the docs, say so in your article.
>
> Asking a Frequently Asked Question
> It should be understood that you may have missed the
applicable FAQ
> when you checked, which is not a big deal. But if the Frequently
> Asked Question is worded similar to your question, folks
will assume
> that you did not look at all. Don't become indignant at
pointers to
> the FAQ, particularly if it solves your problem.
>
> Asking a question easily answered by a cursory doc search
> If folks think you have not even tried the obvious step of
reading
> the docs applicable to your problem, they are likely to become
> annoyed.
>
> If you are flamed for not checking when you *did* check,
then just
> shrug it off (and take the answer that you got).
>
> Asking for emailed answers
> Emailed answers benefit one person. Posted answers benefit the
> entire community. If folks can take the time to answer your
> question, then you can take the time to go get the answer in the
> same place where you asked the question.
>
> It is OK to ask for a *copy* of the answer to be emailed,
but many
> will ignore such requests anyway. If you munge your address, you
> should never expect (or ask) to get email in response to a
Usenet
> post.
>
> Ask the question here, get the answer here (maybe).
>
> Beware of saying "doesn't work"
> This is a "red flag" phrase. If you find yourself writing that,
> pause and see if you can't describe what is not working without
> saying "doesn't work". That is, describe how it is not what you
> want.
>
> Sending a "stealth" Cc copy
> A "stealth Cc" is when you both email and post a reply without
> indicating *in the body* that you are doing so.
>
> Be extra cautious when you get upset
> Count to ten before composing a followup when you are upset
> This is recommended in all Usenet newsgroups. Here in
clpmisc, most
> flaming sub-threads are not about any feature of Perl at
all! They
> are most often for what was seen as a breach of netiquette.
If you
> have lurked for a bit, then you will know what is expected
and won't
> make such posts in the first place.
>
> But if you get upset, wait a while before writing your
followup. I
> recommend waiting at least 30 minutes.
>
> Count to ten after composing and before posting when you are upset
> After you have written your followup, wait *another* 30 minutes
> before committing yourself by posting it. You cannot take it
back
> once it has been said.
>
> AUTHOR
> Tad McClellan and many others on the comp.lang.perl.misc newsgroup.
>
On 6/3/2011 3:16 AM, tadmc@seesig.invalid wrote:
> Outline
> Before posting to comp.lang.perl.misc
> Must
> - Check the Perl Frequently Asked Questions (FAQ)
> - Check the other standard Perl docs (*.pod)
> Really Really Should
> - Lurk for a while before posting
> - Search a Usenet archive
> If You Like
> - Check Other Resources
> Posting to comp.lang.perl.misc
> Is there a better place to ask your question?
> - Question should be about Perl, not about the application area
> How to participate (post) in the clpmisc community
> - Carefully choose the contents of your Subject header
> - Use an effective followup style
> - Speak Perl rather than English, when possible
> - Ask perl to help you
> - Do not re-type Perl code
> - Provide enough information
> - Do not provide too much information
> - Do not post binaries, HTML, or MIME
> Social faux pas to avoid
> - Asking a Frequently Asked Question
> - Asking a question easily answered by a cursory doc search
> - Asking for emailed answers
> - Beware of saying "doesn't work"
> - Sending a "stealth" Cc copy
> Be extra cautious when you get upset
> - Count to ten before composing a followup when you are upset
> - Count to ten after composing and before posting when you are upset
> -----------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Posting Guidelines for comp.lang.perl.misc ($Revision: 1.9 $)
> This newsgroup, commonly called clpmisc, is a technical newsgroup
> intended to be used for discussion of Perl related issues (except job
> postings), whether it be comments or questions.
>
> As you would expect, clpmisc discussions are usually very technical in
> nature and there are conventions for conduct in technical newsgroups
> going somewhat beyond those in non-technical newsgroups.
>
> The article at:
>
> http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html
>
> describes how to get answers from technical people in general.
>
> This article describes things that you should, and should not, do to
> increase your chances of getting an answer to your Perl question. It is
> available in POD, HTML and plain text formats at:
>
> http://www.rehabitation.com/clpmisc.shtml
>
> For more information about netiquette in general, see the "Netiquette
> Guidelines" at:
>
> http://andrew2.andrew.cmu.edu/rfc/rfc1855.html
>
> A note to newsgroup "regulars":
>
> Do not use these guidelines as a "license to flame" or other
> meanness. It is possible that a poster is unaware of things
> discussed here. Give them the benefit of the doubt, and just
> help them learn how to post, rather than assume that they do
> know and are being the "bad kind" of Lazy.
>
> A note about technical terms used here:
>
> In this document, we use words like "must" and "should" as
> they're used in technical conversation (such as you will
> encounter in this newsgroup). When we say that you*must* do
> something, we mean that if you don't do that something, then
> it's unlikely that you will benefit much from this group.
> We're not bossing you around; we're making the point without
> lots of words.
>
> Do*NOT* send email to the maintainer of these guidelines. It will be
> discarded unread. The guidelines belong to the newsgroup so all
> discussion should appear in the newsgroup. I am just the secretary that
> writes down the consensus of the group.
>
> Before posting to comp.lang.perl.misc
> Must
> This section describes things that you*must* do before posting to
> clpmisc, in order to maximize your chances of getting meaningful replies
> to your inquiry and to avoid getting flamed for being lazy and trying to
> have others do your work.
>
> The perl distribution includes documentation that is copied to your hard
> drive when you install perl. Also installed is a program for looking
> things up in that (and other) documentation named 'perldoc'.
>
> You should either find out where the docs got installed on your system,
> or use perldoc to find them for you. Type "perldoc perldoc" to learn how
> to use perldoc itself. Type "perldoc perl" to start reading Perl's
> standard documentation.
>
> Check the Perl Frequently Asked Questions (FAQ)
> Checking the FAQ before posting is required in Big 8 newsgroups in
> general, there is nothing clpmisc-specific about this requirement.
> You are expected to do this in nearly all newsgroups.
>
> You can use the "-q" switch with perldoc to do a word search of the
> questions in the Perl FAQs.
>
> Check the other standard Perl docs (*.pod)
> The perl distribution comes with much more documentation than is
> available for most other newsgroups, so in clpmisc you should also
> see if you can find an answer in the other (non-FAQ) standard docs
> before posting.
>
> It is*not* required, or even expected, that you actually*read* all of
> Perl's standard docs, only that you spend a few minutes searching them
> before posting.
>
> Try doing a word-search in the standard docs for some words/phrases
> taken from your problem statement or from your very carefully worded
> "Subject:" header.
>
> Really Really Should
> This section describes things that you*really should* do before posting
> to clpmisc.
>
> Lurk for a while before posting
> This is very important and expected in all newsgroups. Lurking means
> to monitor a newsgroup for a period to become familiar with local
> customs. Each newsgroup has specific customs and rituals. Knowing
> these before you participate will help avoid embarrassing social
> situations. Consider yourself to be a foreigner at first!
>
> Search a Usenet archive
> There are tens of thousands of Perl programmers. It is very likely
> that your question has already been asked (and answered). See if you
> can find where it has already been answered.
>
> One such searchable archive is:
>
> http://groups.google.com/advanced_search
>
> If You Like
> This section describes things that you*can* do before posting to
> clpmisc.
>
> Check Other Resources
> You may want to check in books or on web sites to see if you can
> find the answer to your question.
>
> But you need to consider the source of such information: there are a
> lot of very poor Perl books and web sites, and several good ones
> too, of course.
>
> Posting to comp.lang.perl.misc
> There can be 200 messages in clpmisc in a single day. Nobody is going to
> read every article. They must decide somehow which articles they are
> going to read, and which they will skip.
>
> Your post is in competition with 199 other posts. You need to "win"
> before a person who can help you will even read your question.
>
> These sections describe how you can help keep your article from being
> one of the "skipped" ones.
>
> Is there a better place to ask your question?
> Question should be about Perl, not about the application area
> It can be difficult to separate out where your problem really is,
> but you should make a conscious effort to post to the most
> applicable newsgroup. That is, after all, where you are the most
> likely to find the people who know how to answer your question.
>
> Being able to "partition" a problem is an essential skill for
> effectively troubleshooting programming problems. If you don't get
> that right, you end up looking for answers in the wrong places.
>
> It should be understood that you may not know that the root of your
> problem is not Perl-related (the two most frequent ones are CGI and
> Operating System related), so off-topic postings will happen from
> time to time. Be gracious when someone helps you find a better place
> to ask your question by pointing you to a more applicable newsgroup.
>
> How to participate (post) in the clpmisc community
> Carefully choose the contents of your Subject header
> You have 40 precious characters of Subject to win out and be one of
> the posts that gets read. Don't waste them. Take care while
> composing them, they are the key that opens the door to getting an
> answer.
>
> Spend them indicating what aspect of Perl others will find if they
> should decide to read your article.
>
> Do not spend them indicating "experience level" (guru, newbie...).
>
> Do not spend them pleading (please read, urgent, help!...).
>
> Do not spend them on non-Subjects (Perl question, one-word
> Subject...)
>
> For more information on choosing a Subject see "Choosing Good
> Subject Lines":
>
> http://www.cpan.org/authors/id/D/DM/DMR/subjects.post
>
> Part of the beauty of newsgroup dynamics, is that you can contribute
> to the community with your very first post! If your choice of
> Subject leads a fellow Perler to find the thread you are starting,
> then even asking a question helps us all.
>
> Use an effective followup style
> When composing a followup, quote only enough text to establish the
> context for the comments that you will add. Always indicate who
> wrote the quoted material. Never quote an entire article. Never
> quote a .signature (unless that is what you are commenting on).
>
> Intersperse your comments*following* each section of quoted text to
> which they relate. Unappreciated followup styles are referred to as
> "top-posting", "Jeopardy" (because the answer comes before the
> question), or "TOFU" (Text Over, Fullquote Under).
>
> Reversing the chronology of the dialog makes it much harder to
> understand (some folks won't even read it if written in that style).
> For more information on quoting style, see:
>
> http://web.presby.edu/~nnqadmin/nnq/nquote.html
>
> Speak Perl rather than English, when possible
> Perl is much more precise than natural language. Saying it in Perl
> instead will avoid misunderstanding your question or problem.
>
> Do not say: I have variable with "foo\tbar" in it.
>
> Instead say: I have $var = "foo\tbar", or I have $var = 'foo\tbar',
> or I have $var =<DATA> (and show the data line).
>
> Ask perl to help you
> You can ask perl itself to help you find common programming mistakes
> by doing two things: enable warnings (perldoc warnings) and enable
> "strict"ures (perldoc strict).
>
> You should not bother the hundreds/thousands of readers of the
> newsgroup without first seeing if a machine can help you find your
> problem. It is demeaning to be asked to do the work of a machine. It
> will annoy the readers of your article.
>
> You can look up any of the messages that perl might issue to find
> out what the message means and how to resolve the potential mistake
> (perldoc perldiag). If you would like perl to look them up for you,
> you can put "use diagnostics;" near the top of your program.
>
> Do not re-type Perl code
> Use copy/paste or your editor's "import" function rather than
> attempting to type in your code. If you make a typo you will get
> followups about your typos instead of about the question you are
> trying to get answered.
>
> Provide enough information
> If you do the things in this item, you will have an Extremely Good
> chance of getting people to try and help you with your problem!
> These features are a really big bonus toward your question winning
> out over all of the other posts that you are competing with.
>
> First make a short (less than 20-30 lines) and*complete* program
> that illustrates the problem you are having. People should be able
> to run your program by copy/pasting the code from your article. (You
> will find that doing this step very often reveals your problem
> directly. Leading to an answer much more quickly and reliably than
> posting to Usenet.)
>
> Describe*precisely* the input to your program. Also provide example
> input data for your program. If you need to show file input, use the
> __DATA__ token (perldata.pod) to provide the file contents inside of
> your Perl program.
>
> Show the output (including the verbatim text of any messages) of
> your program.
>
> Describe how you want the output to be different from what you are
> getting.
>
> If you have no idea at all of how to code up your situation, be sure
> to at least describe the 2 things that you*do* know: input and
> desired output.
>
> Do not provide too much information
> Do not just post your entire program for debugging. Most especially
> do not post someone*else's* entire program.
>
> Do not post binaries, HTML, or MIME
> clpmisc is a text only newsgroup. If you have images or binaries
> that explain your question, put them in a publically accessible
> place (like a Web server) and provide a pointer to that location. If
> you include code, cut and paste it directly in the message body.
> Don't attach anything to the message. Don't post vcards or HTML.
> Many people (and even some Usenet servers) will automatically filter
> out such messages. Many people will not be able to easily read your
> post. Plain text is something everyone can read.
>
> Social faux pas to avoid
> The first two below are symptoms of lots of FAQ asking here in clpmisc.
> It happens so often that folks will assume that it is happening yet
> again. If you have looked but not found, or found but didn't understand
> the docs, say so in your article.
>
> Asking a Frequently Asked Question
> It should be understood that you may have missed the applicable FAQ
> when you checked, which is not a big deal. But if the Frequently
> Asked Question is worded similar to your question, folks will assume
> that you did not look at all. Don't become indignant at pointers to
> the FAQ, particularly if it solves your problem.
>
> Asking a question easily answered by a cursory doc search
> If folks think you have not even tried the obvious step of reading
> the docs applicable to your problem, they are likely to become
> annoyed.
>
> If you are flamed for not checking when you*did* check, then just
> shrug it off (and take the answer that you got).
>
> Asking for emailed answers
> Emailed answers benefit one person. Posted answers benefit the
> entire community. If folks can take the time to answer your
> question, then you can take the time to go get the answer in the
> same place where you asked the question.
>
> It is OK to ask for a*copy* of the answer to be emailed, but many
> will ignore such requests anyway. If you munge your address, you
> should never expect (or ask) to get email in response to a Usenet
> post.
>
> Ask the question here, get the answer here (maybe).
>
> Beware of saying "doesn't work"
> This is a "red flag" phrase. If you find yourself writing that,
> pause and see if you can't describe what is not working without
> saying "doesn't work". That is, describe how it is not what you
> want.
>
> Sending a "stealth" Cc copy
> A "stealth Cc" is when you both email and post a reply without
> indicating*in the body* that you are doing so.
>
> Be extra cautious when you get upset
> Count to ten before composing a followup when you are upset
> This is recommended in all Usenet newsgroups. Here in clpmisc, most
> flaming sub-threads are not about any feature of Perl at all! They
> are most often for what was seen as a breach of netiquette. If you
> have lurked for a bit, then you will know what is expected and won't
> make such posts in the first place.
>
> But if you get upset, wait a while before writing your followup. I
> recommend waiting at least 30 minutes.
>
> Count to ten after composing and before posting when you are upset
> After you have written your followup, wait*another* 30 minutes
> before committing yourself by posting it. You cannot take it back
> once it has been said.
>
> AUTHOR
> Tad McClellan and many others on the comp.lang.perl.misc newsgroup.
>
> -- Tad McClellan email: perl -le "print scalar reverse
> qq/moc.liamg\100cm.j.dat/" The above message is a Usenet post. I don't
> recall having given anyone permission to use it on a Web site.
------------------------------
Date: 6 Apr 2001 21:33:47 GMT (Last modified)
From: Perl-Users-Request@ruby.oce.orst.edu (Perl-Users-Digest Admin)
Subject: Digest Administrivia (Last modified: 6 Apr 01)
Message-Id: <null>
Administrivia:
To submit articles to comp.lang.perl.announce, send your article to
clpa@perl.com.
Back issues are available via anonymous ftp from
ftp://cil-www.oce.orst.edu/pub/perl/old-digests.
#For other requests pertaining to the digest, send mail to
#perl-users-request@ruby.oce.orst.edu. Do not waste your time or mine
#sending perl questions to the -request address, I don't have time to
#answer them even if I did know the answer.
------------------------------
End of Perl-Users Digest V11 Issue 3400
***************************************
