[31839] in Perl-Users-Digest
Perl-Users Digest, Issue: 3102 Volume: 11
daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (Perl-Users Digest)
Fri Aug 27 06:09:24 2010
Date: Fri, 27 Aug 2010 03:09:08 -0700 (PDT)
From: Perl-Users Digest <Perl-Users-Request@ruby.OCE.ORST.EDU>
To: Perl-Users@ruby.OCE.ORST.EDU (Perl-Users Digest)
Perl-Users Digest Fri, 27 Aug 2010 Volume: 11 Number: 3102
Today's topics:
Re: complicated sort <jurgenex@hotmail.com>
Re: complicated sort <derykus@gmail.com>
Re: Help writing 'simple' loop <Joey@nothing.xxx.aaa.bbb>
Re: Help writing 'simple' loop <kkeller-usenet@wombat.san-francisco.ca.us>
Re: Help writing 'simple' loop <willem@turtle.stack.nl>
Re: Help writing 'simple' loop <sherm.pendley@gmail.com>
Re: Help writing 'simple' loop <kkeller-usenet@wombat.san-francisco.ca.us>
Re: Help writing 'simple' loop NotAVaildAddress@I_Get_It_but.xyz
Re: Help writing 'simple' loop (Randal L. Schwartz)
Re: Help writing 'simple' loop <sherm.pendley@gmail.com>
Re: Help writing 'simple' loop (Randal L. Schwartz)
Re: Help writing 'simple' loop <kkeller-usenet@wombat.san-francisco.ca.us>
Re: Help writing 'simple' loop <jurgenex@hotmail.com>
Re: Help writing 'simple' loop <ben@morrow.me.uk>
Re: Help writing 'simple' loop <kkeller-usenet@wombat.san-francisco.ca.us>
Re: Help writing 'simple' loop <ben@morrow.me.uk>
Posting Guidelines for comp.lang.perl.misc ($Revision: tadmc@seesig.invalid
require hangs <monkey@joemoney.net>
Digest Administrivia (Last modified: 6 Apr 01) (Perl-Users-Digest Admin)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Thu, 26 Aug 2010 19:28:41 -0700
From: Jürgen Exner <jurgenex@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: complicated sort
Message-Id: <ie8e761dv9o0oh30co2s2m5cv14uif9r5k@4ax.com>
monkeys paw <monkey@joemoney.net> wrote:
>In the following array of hashrefs, i need to sort by state and sort
>tag. Problem i am having is that the records without sort tags should
>sort first (by state), then the rest with tags sort by state and then
>sort_tag. With the sort routine i have, it sorts the ones without
>sort_tags first, but it is divided by state. The correct sorting would be:
>
>AK(no tag)
>CA(no tag)
>CO(no tag)
>AK sorted by tag
>CA sorted by tag
>
>I can't get the records with no sort_tags to filter out without having
>the sort_tag override my state sort needs. Any ideas?
For quite some time perl's sort() function has been a stable sort. That
means you can do your sort in two separate steps: first sort by the
lesser criterion and then sort a second time by the higher-level
criterion.
In your case sort just by state first and then again by tag/no tag. This
way, when sorting by tag/no tag the existing sequence within each group
of tag/no tog will be preserved.
jue
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 27 Aug 2010 01:28:08 -0700 (PDT)
From: "C.DeRykus" <derykus@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: complicated sort
Message-Id: <3e95c2db-c80a-4fde-85da-369ad8fae6aa@b4g2000pra.googlegroups.com>
On Aug 26, 1:39=A0pm, monkeys paw <mon...@joemoney.net> wrote:
> In the following array of hashrefs, i need to sort by state and sort
> tag. Problem i am having is that the records without sort tags should
> sort first (by state), then the rest with tags sort by state and then
> sort_tag. With the sort routine i have, it sorts the ones without
> sort_tags first, but it is divided by state. The correct sorting would be=
:
>
> AK(no tag)
> CA(no tag)
> CO(no tag)
> AK sorted by tag
> CA sorted by tag
>
> I can't get the records with no sort_tags to filter out without having
> the sort_tag override my state sort needs. Any ideas?
>
> ...
>
> my @sorted =3D sort heading_sort @unsorted;
>
> use Data::Dumper;die 'DDDEBUG' . =A0Dumper(\@sorted);
>
> sub heading_sort {
> =A0 =A0return ($a->{sort_tag} || 1) cmp ($b->{sort_tag} || 1)
> =A0 =A0 =A0 || $a->{state} cmp $b->{state};
>
> }
>
You could just tweak heading_sort:
sub heading_sort {
# -1,0,1 $a before $b, noop, $a after $b
return 0 if !exists $a->{sort_tag} and
!exists $b->{sort_tag};
return -1 if !exists $a->{sort_tag};
return 1 if !exists $b->{sort_tag};
$a->{sort_tag} cmp $b->{sort_tag}
or
$a->{state} cmp $b->{state};
}
--
Charles DeRykus
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 26 Aug 2010 16:05:36 -0700
From: Joey <Joey@nothing.xxx.aaa.bbb>
Subject: Re: Help writing 'simple' loop
Message-Id: <bksd769l25j31la6g88uscachbe6p05d6q@4ax.com>
Sherm Pendley wrote:
>Joey@I.am.not.an.invalid.net writes:
>
>> Randal L. Schwartz wrote:
>>
>>>>>>>> "Joey" == Joey <Joey@invalid.net> writes:
>>>
>>>Joey> Sorry 'bout that. Spam, etc., is my excuse.
>>>
>>>No, now you're using "invalid.net", which happens to be registered
>>>to someone in my hometown.
>>>
>>>PLEASE PAY ATTENTION.
>>>
>>>Use a TLD of ".invalid"... like "foo.invalid".
>>>
>>>Since I can't email you, I have to chastise you publicly.
>>>
>>>Again.
>>
>> Sniffle...chastised by the guy whose book I'm reading.
>
>And yet, you're still not listening. Don't add ".net", ".com", or
>".anything-else" at the end. ".invalid" is a top-level domain, and
>as such it should appear at the end of any intentionally-invalid
>address.
>
>For example: Joey@I.am.not.an.invalid (note the lack of the .net
>you're currently using)
>
>Similarly, ".example" is reserved for use in example code. Both are
>guaranteed to never be used for any real domains.
>
Thanks, Sherm, for the complete explanation.
--
Joey
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 26 Aug 2010 16:33:10 -0700
From: Keith Keller <kkeller-usenet@wombat.san-francisco.ca.us>
Subject: Re: Help writing 'simple' loop
Message-Id: <m6ajk7x57t.ln2@goaway.wombat.san-francisco.ca.us>
On 2010-08-26, Joey <Joey@nothing.xxx.aaa.bbb> wrote:
^^^
> Sherm Pendley wrote:
>>
>>And yet, you're still not listening. Don't add ".net", ".com", or
>>".anything-else" at the end. ".invalid" is a top-level domain, and
>>as such it should appear at the end of any intentionally-invalid
>>address.
>>
> Thanks, Sherm, for the complete explanation.
I'm sure he'd appreciate it if you actually *heeded* the explanation,
rather than again ''correcting'' it incorrectly.
--keith
--
kkeller-usenet@wombat.san-francisco.ca.us
(try just my userid to email me)
AOLSFAQ=http://www.therockgarden.ca/aolsfaq.txt
see X- headers for PGP signature information
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 26 Aug 2010 23:44:46 +0000 (UTC)
From: Willem <willem@turtle.stack.nl>
Subject: Re: Help writing 'simple' loop
Message-Id: <slrni7dv3e.qng.willem@turtle.stack.nl>
Keith Keller wrote:
) On 2010-08-26, Joey <Joey@nothing.xxx.aaa.bbb> wrote:
) ^^^
)> Sherm Pendley wrote:
)>>
)>>And yet, you're still not listening. Don't add ".net", ".com", or
)>>".anything-else" at the end. ".invalid" is a top-level domain, and
)>>as such it should appear at the end of any intentionally-invalid
)>>address.
)>>
)> Thanks, Sherm, for the complete explanation.
)
) I'm sure he'd appreciate it if you actually *heeded* the explanation,
) rather than again ''correcting'' it incorrectly.
Don't feed the troll.
SaSW, Willem
--
Disclaimer: I am in no way responsible for any of the statements
made in the above text. For all I know I might be
drugged or something..
No I'm not paranoid. You all think I'm paranoid, don't you !
#EOT
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 26 Aug 2010 19:51:59 -0400
From: Sherm Pendley <sherm.pendley@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Help writing 'simple' loop
Message-Id: <m239u19bkw.fsf@sherm.shermpendley.com>
Joey <Joey@nothing.xxx.aaa.bbb> writes:
> Sherm Pendley wrote:
>
>>Joey@I.am.not.an.invalid.net writes:
>>
>>> Randal L. Schwartz wrote:
>>>
>>>>>>>>> "Joey" == Joey <Joey@invalid.net> writes:
>>>>
>>>>Joey> Sorry 'bout that. Spam, etc., is my excuse.
>>>>
>>>>No, now you're using "invalid.net", which happens to be registered
>>>>to someone in my hometown.
>>>>
>>>>PLEASE PAY ATTENTION.
>>>>
>>>>Use a TLD of ".invalid"... like "foo.invalid".
>>>>
>>>>Since I can't email you, I have to chastise you publicly.
>>>>
>>>>Again.
>>>
>>> Sniffle...chastised by the guy whose book I'm reading.
>>
>>And yet, you're still not listening. Don't add ".net", ".com", or
>>".anything-else" at the end. ".invalid" is a top-level domain, and
>>as such it should appear at the end of any intentionally-invalid
>>address.
>>
>>For example: Joey@I.am.not.an.invalid (note the lack of the .net
>>you're currently using)
>>
>>Similarly, ".example" is reserved for use in example code. Both are
>>guaranteed to never be used for any real domains.
>>
> Thanks, Sherm, for the complete explanation.
Why thank me if you're going to ignore the advice? Do you really want
help from this group, or are you just trolling?
sherm--
--
Sherm Pendley
<camelbones.sourceforge.net>
Cocoa Developer
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 26 Aug 2010 16:57:15 -0700
From: Keith Keller <kkeller-usenet@wombat.san-francisco.ca.us>
Subject: Re: Help writing 'simple' loop
Message-Id: <rjbjk7xngt.ln2@goaway.wombat.san-francisco.ca.us>
On 2010-08-26, Willem <willem@turtle.stack.nl> wrote:
>
> Don't feed the troll.
I am not (yet) 100% convinced that Joey is a troll. We'll see what his
next responses are.
--keith
--
kkeller-usenet@wombat.san-francisco.ca.us
(try just my userid to email me)
AOLSFAQ=http://www.therockgarden.ca/aolsfaq.txt
see X- headers for PGP signature information
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 26 Aug 2010 17:17:21 -0700
From: NotAVaildAddress@I_Get_It_but.xyz
Subject: Re: Help writing 'simple' loop
Message-Id: <mo0e76tundqn15vhh4e528apkggt31i5lr@4ax.com>
Keith Keller wrote:
>On 2010-08-26, Joey <Joey@nothing.xxx.aaa.bbb> wrote:
> ^^^
>> Sherm Pendley wrote:
>>>
>>>And yet, you're still not listening. Don't add ".net", ".com", or
>>>".anything-else" at the end. ".invalid" is a top-level domain, and
>>>as such it should appear at the end of any intentionally-invalid
>>>address.
>>>
>> Thanks, Sherm, for the complete explanation.
>
>I'm sure he'd appreciate it if you actually *heeded* the explanation,
>rather than again ''correcting'' it incorrectly.
>
Note: My Usenet server refuses to send msgs without a suffix; hence the
dot xyz. I wouldn't have sent it, except it I really wanted to express:
My apologies. To all. Mea culpa!
I'm really glad I asked my question regarding Perl syntax. I learned a lot
about data structures, but also never add a suffix to a fake URL, and that
the abbreviation TLD means top-level-domain. :-)
Thanks to all for your pertinent inputs.
I'm really sorry if I ruined anyone's day. (Now you know why I use a nym.)
;-)
--
Joey
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 26 Aug 2010 17:03:22 -0700
From: merlyn@stonehenge.com (Randal L. Schwartz)
Subject: Re: Help writing 'simple' loop
Message-Id: <86pqx4udkl.fsf@red.stonehenge.com>
>>>>> "Keith" == Keith Keller <kkeller-usenet@wombat.san-francisco.ca.us> writes:
Keith> I'm sure he'd appreciate it if you actually *heeded* the explanation,
Keith> rather than again ''correcting'' it incorrectly.
Triage: "this one is already dead".
A.k.a.: "Can't teach pigs to sing."
/me gives up
--
Randal L. Schwartz - Stonehenge Consulting Services, Inc. - +1 503 777 0095
<merlyn@stonehenge.com> <URL:http://www.stonehenge.com/merlyn/>
Smalltalk/Perl/Unix consulting, Technical writing, Comedy, etc. etc.
See http://methodsandmessages.vox.com/ for Smalltalk and Seaside discussion
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 26 Aug 2010 20:28:27 -0400
From: Sherm Pendley <sherm.pendley@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Help writing 'simple' loop
Message-Id: <m2bp8ouces.fsf@sherm.shermpendley.com>
NotAVaildAddress@I_Get_It_but.xyz writes:
> Note: My Usenet server refuses to send msgs without a suffix
.invalid *is* a suffix.
> My apologies.
Apologies are worthless when you keep doing the same thing.
> I'm really glad I asked my question regarding Perl syntax. I learned a lot
> about data structures, but also never add a suffix to a fake URL
So, you know it's not kosher, but keep doing it anyway? Being rude out
of ignorance is one thing; being deliberately so is quite another.
You're going to find yourself in a *lot* of killfiles if you keep
deliberately wasting other people's time. So ask yourself - do you
want help from this group, or not?
sherm--
--
Sherm Pendley
<camelbones.sourceforge.net>
Cocoa Developer
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 26 Aug 2010 17:32:27 -0700
From: merlyn@stonehenge.com (Randal L. Schwartz)
Subject: Re: Help writing 'simple' loop
Message-Id: <86bp8ouc84.fsf@red.stonehenge.com>
>>>>> "NotAVaildAddress" == NotAVaildAddress <NotAVaildAddress@I_Get_It_but.xyz> writes:
NotAVaildAddress> Note: My Usenet server refuses to send msgs without a suffix; hence the
NotAVaildAddress> dot xyz.
NOT.
DOT.
XYZ.
USE.
DOT.
INVALID.
Seriously, dude. You have an unhelpable level of comprehension.
--
Randal L. Schwartz - Stonehenge Consulting Services, Inc. - +1 503 777 0095
<merlyn@stonehenge.com> <URL:http://www.stonehenge.com/merlyn/>
Smalltalk/Perl/Unix consulting, Technical writing, Comedy, etc. etc.
See http://methodsandmessages.vox.com/ for Smalltalk and Seaside discussion
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 26 Aug 2010 19:23:19 -0700
From: Keith Keller <kkeller-usenet@wombat.san-francisco.ca.us>
Subject: Re: Help writing 'simple' loop
Message-Id: <o5kjk7xmbv.ln2@goaway.wombat.san-francisco.ca.us>
On 2010-08-27, Sherm Pendley <sherm.pendley@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> You're going to find yourself in a *lot* of killfiles if you keep
> deliberately wasting other people's time.
At the rate ''Joey'' is going, we're going to need another 2TB disk just
to store his addresses in our killfiles.
--keith
--
kkeller-usenet@wombat.san-francisco.ca.us
(try just my userid to email me)
AOLSFAQ=http://www.therockgarden.ca/aolsfaq.txt
see X- headers for PGP signature information
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 26 Aug 2010 19:34:59 -0700
From: Jürgen Exner <jurgenex@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Help writing 'simple' loop
Message-Id: <ao8e761rd0ss5lfb20d5fmkiu1gkcknkjs@4ax.com>
JoeyF1276@earthlink.net wrote:
>$h1_right through $h10_right are 10 independent integer values.
>
>$hTotalRight = $h1_right + $h2_right + $h3_right + $h4_right + $h5_right +
>$h6_right + $h7_right + $h8_right + $h9_right + $h10_right;
>
>I can't figure out the syntax for $XXX to write a loop to do the addition.
>$hTotalRight = 0;
>for ($i=1;$i<11;$i++) {
>$hTotalRight = $hTotalRight + $XXX;
>}
>
>What is the syntax for $XXX?
It is trivial:
my @h_right = (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10);
my $hTotalRight = 0;
for my $i (1...10) {
$hTotalRight = $hTotalRight + $h_right[$i];
}
Now, before you scream "I don't want to use a f*#%$#$ array" you may
want to read up on the many, many previous posts as well as the FAQ
about "variable as a variable name" regarding why symbolic references
are a really, really bad idea.
jue
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 27 Aug 2010 04:05:35 +0100
From: Ben Morrow <ben@morrow.me.uk>
Subject: Re: Help writing 'simple' loop
Message-Id: <vkmjk7-058.ln1@osiris.mauzo.dyndns.org>
Quoth Keith Keller <kkeller-usenet@wombat.san-francisco.ca.us>:
> On 2010-08-27, Sherm Pendley <sherm.pendley@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > You're going to find yourself in a *lot* of killfiles if you keep
> > deliberately wasting other people's time.
>
> At the rate ''Joey'' is going, we're going to need another 2TB disk just
> to store his addresses in our killfiles.
There's this novel concept known as 'regular expressions'...
Ben
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 26 Aug 2010 21:10:11 -0700
From: Keith Keller <kkeller-usenet@wombat.san-francisco.ca.us>
Subject: Re: Help writing 'simple' loop
Message-Id: <3eqjk7xe91.ln2@goaway.wombat.san-francisco.ca.us>
On 2010-08-27, Ben Morrow <ben@morrow.me.uk> wrote:
>
> There's this novel concept known as 'regular expressions'...
I challenge you to write a simple regex that matches all of ''Joey's''
From headers in this thread. ;-)
--keith
--
kkeller-usenet@wombat.san-francisco.ca.us
(try just my userid to email me)
AOLSFAQ=http://www.therockgarden.ca/aolsfaq.txt
see X- headers for PGP signature information
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 27 Aug 2010 05:29:48 +0100
From: Ben Morrow <ben@morrow.me.uk>
Subject: Re: Help writing 'simple' loop
Message-Id: <sirjk7-hp9.ln1@osiris.mauzo.dyndns.org>
Quoth Keith Keller <kkeller-usenet@wombat.san-francisco.ca.us>:
> On 2010-08-27, Ben Morrow <ben@morrow.me.uk> wrote:
> >
> > There's this novel concept known as 'regular expressions'...
>
> I challenge you to write a simple regex that matches all of ''Joey's''
> From headers in this thread. ;-)
Uh... /Joey\w*@\|\.xyz$/fK:j
(that's a trn regex, not Perl... you can see why Larry chose to redo the
regexen for Perl)
Ben
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 27 Aug 2010 02:14:45 -0500
From: tadmc@seesig.invalid
Subject: Posting Guidelines for comp.lang.perl.misc ($Revision: 1.9 $)
Message-Id: <y9qdnWJ9-eZ4-OrRnZ2dnUVZ5jednZ2d@giganews.com>
Outline
Before posting to comp.lang.perl.misc
Must
- Check the Perl Frequently Asked Questions (FAQ)
- Check the other standard Perl docs (*.pod)
Really Really Should
- Lurk for a while before posting
- Search a Usenet archive
If You Like
- Check Other Resources
Posting to comp.lang.perl.misc
Is there a better place to ask your question?
- Question should be about Perl, not about the application area
How to participate (post) in the clpmisc community
- Carefully choose the contents of your Subject header
- Use an effective followup style
- Speak Perl rather than English, when possible
- Ask perl to help you
- Do not re-type Perl code
- Provide enough information
- Do not provide too much information
- Do not post binaries, HTML, or MIME
Social faux pas to avoid
- Asking a Frequently Asked Question
- Asking a question easily answered by a cursory doc search
- Asking for emailed answers
- Beware of saying "doesn't work"
- Sending a "stealth" Cc copy
Be extra cautious when you get upset
- Count to ten before composing a followup when you are upset
- Count to ten after composing and before posting when you are upset
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Posting Guidelines for comp.lang.perl.misc ($Revision: 1.9 $)
This newsgroup, commonly called clpmisc, is a technical newsgroup
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As you would expect, clpmisc discussions are usually very technical in
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The article at:
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describes how to get answers from technical people in general.
This article describes things that you should, and should not, do to
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Must
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The perl distribution includes documentation that is copied to your hard
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You should either find out where the docs got installed on your system,
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Checking the FAQ before posting is required in Big 8 newsgroups in
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Check the other standard Perl docs (*.pod)
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Try doing a word-search in the standard docs for some words/phrases
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Really Really Should
This section describes things that you *really should* do before posting
to clpmisc.
Lurk for a while before posting
This is very important and expected in all newsgroups. Lurking means
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Search a Usenet archive
There are tens of thousands of Perl programmers. It is very likely
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can find where it has already been answered.
One such searchable archive is:
http://groups.google.com/advanced_search
If You Like
This section describes things that you *can* do before posting to
clpmisc.
Check Other Resources
You may want to check in books or on web sites to see if you can
find the answer to your question.
But you need to consider the source of such information: there are a
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Posting to comp.lang.perl.misc
There can be 200 messages in clpmisc in a single day. Nobody is going to
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Your post is in competition with 199 other posts. You need to "win"
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Is there a better place to ask your question?
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Carefully choose the contents of your Subject header
You have 40 precious characters of Subject to win out and be one of
the posts that gets read. Don't waste them. Take care while
composing them, they are the key that opens the door to getting an
answer.
Spend them indicating what aspect of Perl others will find if they
should decide to read your article.
Do not spend them indicating "experience level" (guru, newbie...).
Do not spend them pleading (please read, urgent, help!...).
Do not spend them on non-Subjects (Perl question, one-word
Subject...)
For more information on choosing a Subject see "Choosing Good
Subject Lines":
http://www.cpan.org/authors/id/D/DM/DMR/subjects.post
Part of the beauty of newsgroup dynamics, is that you can contribute
to the community with your very first post! If your choice of
Subject leads a fellow Perler to find the thread you are starting,
then even asking a question helps us all.
Use an effective followup style
When composing a followup, quote only enough text to establish the
context for the comments that you will add. Always indicate who
wrote the quoted material. Never quote an entire article. Never
quote a .signature (unless that is what you are commenting on).
Intersperse your comments *following* each section of quoted text to
which they relate. Unappreciated followup styles are referred to as
"top-posting", "Jeopardy" (because the answer comes before the
question), or "TOFU" (Text Over, Fullquote Under).
Reversing the chronology of the dialog makes it much harder to
understand (some folks won't even read it if written in that style).
For more information on quoting style, see:
http://web.presby.edu/~nnqadmin/nnq/nquote.html
Speak Perl rather than English, when possible
Perl is much more precise than natural language. Saying it in Perl
instead will avoid misunderstanding your question or problem.
Do not say: I have variable with "foo\tbar" in it.
Instead say: I have $var = "foo\tbar", or I have $var = 'foo\tbar',
or I have $var = <DATA> (and show the data line).
Ask perl to help you
You can ask perl itself to help you find common programming mistakes
by doing two things: enable warnings (perldoc warnings) and enable
"strict"ures (perldoc strict).
You should not bother the hundreds/thousands of readers of the
newsgroup without first seeing if a machine can help you find your
problem. It is demeaning to be asked to do the work of a machine. It
will annoy the readers of your article.
You can look up any of the messages that perl might issue to find
out what the message means and how to resolve the potential mistake
(perldoc perldiag). If you would like perl to look them up for you,
you can put "use diagnostics;" near the top of your program.
Do not re-type Perl code
Use copy/paste or your editor's "import" function rather than
attempting to type in your code. If you make a typo you will get
followups about your typos instead of about the question you are
trying to get answered.
Provide enough information
If you do the things in this item, you will have an Extremely Good
chance of getting people to try and help you with your problem!
These features are a really big bonus toward your question winning
out over all of the other posts that you are competing with.
First make a short (less than 20-30 lines) and *complete* program
that illustrates the problem you are having. People should be able
to run your program by copy/pasting the code from your article. (You
will find that doing this step very often reveals your problem
directly. Leading to an answer much more quickly and reliably than
posting to Usenet.)
Describe *precisely* the input to your program. Also provide example
input data for your program. If you need to show file input, use the
__DATA__ token (perldata.pod) to provide the file contents inside of
your Perl program.
Show the output (including the verbatim text of any messages) of
your program.
Describe how you want the output to be different from what you are
getting.
If you have no idea at all of how to code up your situation, be sure
to at least describe the 2 things that you *do* know: input and
desired output.
Do not provide too much information
Do not just post your entire program for debugging. Most especially
do not post someone *else's* entire program.
Do not post binaries, HTML, or MIME
clpmisc is a text only newsgroup. If you have images or binaries
that explain your question, put them in a publically accessible
place (like a Web server) and provide a pointer to that location. If
you include code, cut and paste it directly in the message body.
Don't attach anything to the message. Don't post vcards or HTML.
Many people (and even some Usenet servers) will automatically filter
out such messages. Many people will not be able to easily read your
post. Plain text is something everyone can read.
Social faux pas to avoid
The first two below are symptoms of lots of FAQ asking here in clpmisc.
It happens so often that folks will assume that it is happening yet
again. If you have looked but not found, or found but didn't understand
the docs, say so in your article.
Asking a Frequently Asked Question
It should be understood that you may have missed the applicable FAQ
when you checked, which is not a big deal. But if the Frequently
Asked Question is worded similar to your question, folks will assume
that you did not look at all. Don't become indignant at pointers to
the FAQ, particularly if it solves your problem.
Asking a question easily answered by a cursory doc search
If folks think you have not even tried the obvious step of reading
the docs applicable to your problem, they are likely to become
annoyed.
If you are flamed for not checking when you *did* check, then just
shrug it off (and take the answer that you got).
Asking for emailed answers
Emailed answers benefit one person. Posted answers benefit the
entire community. If folks can take the time to answer your
question, then you can take the time to go get the answer in the
same place where you asked the question.
It is OK to ask for a *copy* of the answer to be emailed, but many
will ignore such requests anyway. If you munge your address, you
should never expect (or ask) to get email in response to a Usenet
post.
Ask the question here, get the answer here (maybe).
Beware of saying "doesn't work"
This is a "red flag" phrase. If you find yourself writing that,
pause and see if you can't describe what is not working without
saying "doesn't work". That is, describe how it is not what you
want.
Sending a "stealth" Cc copy
A "stealth Cc" is when you both email and post a reply without
indicating *in the body* that you are doing so.
Be extra cautious when you get upset
Count to ten before composing a followup when you are upset
This is recommended in all Usenet newsgroups. Here in clpmisc, most
flaming sub-threads are not about any feature of Perl at all! They
are most often for what was seen as a breach of netiquette. If you
have lurked for a bit, then you will know what is expected and won't
make such posts in the first place.
But if you get upset, wait a while before writing your followup. I
recommend waiting at least 30 minutes.
Count to ten after composing and before posting when you are upset
After you have written your followup, wait *another* 30 minutes
before committing yourself by posting it. You cannot take it back
once it has been said.
AUTHOR
Tad McClellan and many others on the comp.lang.perl.misc newsgroup.
--
Tad McClellan
email: perl -le "print scalar reverse qq/moc.liamg\100cm.j.dat/"
The above message is a Usenet post.
I don't recall having given anyone permission to use it on a Web site.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 26 Aug 2010 23:47:37 -0400
From: monkeys paw <monkey@joemoney.net>
Subject: require hangs
Message-Id: <IPSdnbep6IbEqOrRnZ2dnUVZ_tidnZ2d@insightbb.com>
I have a few dependant modules, too extensive to post at this
point. A general question, what could make a 'require' of
a module hang, when a 'use' works? I could try to boil it
down to something more specific, but the mystery lies
within several thousand lines of code. Any suggestions
are appreciated. Thanks.
------------------------------
Date: 6 Apr 2001 21:33:47 GMT (Last modified)
From: Perl-Users-Request@ruby.oce.orst.edu (Perl-Users-Digest Admin)
Subject: Digest Administrivia (Last modified: 6 Apr 01)
Message-Id: <null>
Administrivia:
To submit articles to comp.lang.perl.announce, send your article to
clpa@perl.com.
Back issues are available via anonymous ftp from
ftp://cil-www.oce.orst.edu/pub/perl/old-digests.
#For other requests pertaining to the digest, send mail to
#perl-users-request@ruby.oce.orst.edu. Do not waste your time or mine
#sending perl questions to the -request address, I don't have time to
#answer them even if I did know the answer.
------------------------------
End of Perl-Users Digest V11 Issue 3102
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