[31801] in Perl-Users-Digest
Perl-Users Digest, Issue: 3064 Volume: 11
daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (Perl-Users Digest)
Fri Aug 6 06:09:27 2010
Date: Fri, 6 Aug 2010 03:09:11 -0700 (PDT)
From: Perl-Users Digest <Perl-Users-Request@ruby.OCE.ORST.EDU>
To: Perl-Users@ruby.OCE.ORST.EDU (Perl-Users Digest)
Perl-Users Digest Fri, 6 Aug 2010 Volume: 11 Number: 3064
Today's topics:
Re: Convert string to date/time MS Access will accept a <m@rtij.nl.invlalid>
Re: Extract variable length numbers (tab delimitered) f <uri@StemSystems.com>
Re: Extract variable length numbers (tab delimitered) f <sherm.pendley@gmail.com>
Re: Extract variable length numbers (tab delimitered) f <uri@StemSystems.com>
Re: Extract variable length numbers (tab delimitered) f <sherm.pendley@gmail.com>
Re: Extract variable length numbers (tab delimitered) f <marc.girod@gmail.com>
Re: Extract variable length numbers (tab delimitered) f <m@rtij.nl.invlalid>
Re: Main pod in CPAN module <ben@morrow.me.uk>
Re: Main pod in CPAN module <marc.girod@gmail.com>
Posting Guidelines for comp.lang.perl.misc ($Revision: tadmc@seesig.invalid
Digest Administrivia (Last modified: 6 Apr 01) (Perl-Users-Digest Admin)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Fri, 6 Aug 2010 08:35:00 +0200
From: Martijn Lievaart <m@rtij.nl.invlalid>
Subject: Re: Convert string to date/time MS Access will accept at import
Message-Id: <k1nsi7-slo.ln1@news.rtij.nl>
On Thu, 05 Aug 2010 02:17:33 +0200, Thomas Andersson wrote:
> I have my data collector script finished now and it works fine. Now my
> problem is that MS Access throws a hissyfit when I try to import my
> data. At first I thought it was the AutoNumber field that caused it but
> it isn't as I found the report saying that I get "Type Conversion
> Failure" on every filed containing time info.
>
> All my collected data have the time info stored in this format "Jul 28
> 18:34" (Tab delimitered) and now I guess I need to convert all those on
> the fly before they are stored to something Access will accept.
Not really a Perl question, but an Access one. Fortunately, been there,
done that.
The only way to get Access to reliably parse datetimes, is to offer them
as YYYY-MM-DD HH:MM:SS. I think you can leave of the seconds.
Note that this is still assumed to be in the current timezone, you'll
neet to STFG if this is a problem for you.
HTH,
M4
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 06 Aug 2010 04:09:13 -0400
From: "Uri Guttman" <uri@StemSystems.com>
Subject: Re: Extract variable length numbers (tab delimitered) from a string?
Message-Id: <87ocdgp3h2.fsf@quad.sysarch.com>
>>>>> "ML" == Martijn Lievaart <m@rtij.nl.invlalid> writes:
ML> - Perl is so much more powerful, you have to write a lot less code
ML> to achieve the same goal. Less LOC, less bugs.
that is also a good reason to promote perl. i mention it when i
can. fewer lines is always fewer bugs. some metrics have shown there is
usually 1 bug per hundred lines of code regardless of the language. so
a good perl hacker will have fewer bugs. and well designed perl has even
less. :)
uri
--
Uri Guttman ------ uri@stemsystems.com -------- http://www.sysarch.com --
----- Perl Code Review , Architecture, Development, Training, Support ------
--------- Gourmet Hot Cocoa Mix ---- http://bestfriendscocoa.com ---------
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 06 Aug 2010 04:26:22 -0400
From: Sherm Pendley <sherm.pendley@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Extract variable length numbers (tab delimitered) from a string?
Message-Id: <m2vd7o9mfl.fsf@sherm.shermpendley.com>
"Uri Guttman" <uri@StemSystems.com> writes:
>>>>>> "ML" == Martijn Lievaart <m@rtij.nl.invlalid> writes:
>
> ML> - Perl is so much more powerful, you have to write a lot less code
> ML> to achieve the same goal. Less LOC, less bugs.
>
> that is also a good reason to promote perl. i mention it when i
> can. fewer lines is always fewer bugs.
That's certainly a good guideline, but it's another one of those things
that can bite you if you apply it blindly. Taken too far, it results in
code that looks like JAPHs or golf - the bug count may be low, but it's
still going to be a maintenance nightmare.
sherm--
--
Sherm Pendley <www.shermpendley.com>
<www.camelbones.org>
Cocoa Developer
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 06 Aug 2010 04:35:39 -0400
From: "Uri Guttman" <uri@StemSystems.com>
Subject: Re: Extract variable length numbers (tab delimitered) from a string?
Message-Id: <8739usp290.fsf@quad.sysarch.com>
>>>>> "SP" == Sherm Pendley <sherm.pendley@gmail.com> writes:
SP> "Uri Guttman" <uri@StemSystems.com> writes:
>>>>>>> "ML" == Martijn Lievaart <m@rtij.nl.invlalid> writes:
>>
ML> - Perl is so much more powerful, you have to write a lot less code
ML> to achieve the same goal. Less LOC, less bugs.
>>
>> that is also a good reason to promote perl. i mention it when i
>> can. fewer lines is always fewer bugs.
SP> That's certainly a good guideline, but it's another one of those things
SP> that can bite you if you apply it blindly. Taken too far, it results in
SP> code that looks like JAPHs or golf - the bug count may be low, but it's
SP> still going to be a maintenance nightmare.
i did mention good design! of course any coding philosophy taken to an
extreme is bad. look at all the OO forever langs like java! can't get
any real work done since most of the time you are designing classes to
get around the restrictions in the language! :)
uri
--
Uri Guttman ------ uri@stemsystems.com -------- http://www.sysarch.com --
----- Perl Code Review , Architecture, Development, Training, Support ------
--------- Gourmet Hot Cocoa Mix ---- http://bestfriendscocoa.com ---------
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 06 Aug 2010 04:49:37 -0400
From: Sherm Pendley <sherm.pendley@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Extract variable length numbers (tab delimitered) from a string?
Message-Id: <m2tyn8f7mm.fsf@sherm.shermpendley.com>
"Uri Guttman" <uri@StemSystems.com> writes:
>>>>>> "SP" == Sherm Pendley <sherm.pendley@gmail.com> writes:
>
> SP> "Uri Guttman" <uri@StemSystems.com> writes:
> >>>>>>> "ML" == Martijn Lievaart <m@rtij.nl.invlalid> writes:
> >>
> ML> - Perl is so much more powerful, you have to write a lot less code
> ML> to achieve the same goal. Less LOC, less bugs.
> >>
> >> that is also a good reason to promote perl. i mention it when i
> >> can. fewer lines is always fewer bugs.
>
> SP> That's certainly a good guideline, but it's another one of those things
> SP> that can bite you if you apply it blindly. Taken too far, it results in
> SP> code that looks like JAPHs or golf - the bug count may be low, but it's
> SP> still going to be a maintenance nightmare.
>
> i did mention good design! of course any coding philosophy taken to an
> extreme is bad.
Yeah, I knew *you* didn't need the advice - I'm just careful about
using the word "always" when newbies are in the room. Sometimes they
take it to heart.
> look at all the OO forever langs like java!
Awww, do I *have* to? :-(
sherm--
--
Sherm Pendley <www.shermpendley.com>
<www.camelbones.org>
Cocoa Developer
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 6 Aug 2010 02:25:46 -0700 (PDT)
From: Marc Girod <marc.girod@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Extract variable length numbers (tab delimitered) from a string?
Message-Id: <ad81dc00-69d5-4b84-bf32-d4492aec2b10@c10g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>
On Aug 4, 7:45=A0pm, Tad McClellan <ta...@seesig.invalid> wrote:
> That Kernighan guy has a bit of a reputation amongst programmer types. :-=
)
With all respect due, my own hubris would play Hall against Kernighan.
IMHO K's quote is a 'modern' one: top-down thinking.
The debugger is a very good way to learn, and to expand one's
understanding.
It is a postmodern tool.
Marc
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 6 Aug 2010 09:10:22 +0200
From: Martijn Lievaart <m@rtij.nl.invlalid>
Subject: Re: Extract variable length numbers (tab delimitered) from a string?
Message-Id: <u3psi7-slo.ln1@news.rtij.nl>
On Wed, 04 Aug 2010 16:10:39 -0400, Sherm Pendley wrote:
> "Uri Guttman" <uri@StemSystems.com> writes:
>
>> i don't use a debugger, IDE or anything but print and i get working
>> code without pain. brains over typing! :)
>
> Agreed - I *very* rarely need to resort to single-stepping, breakpoints,
> and the like. It's nice to know that they're available though, for those
> rare occasions when I do need them.
It also depends on the language. In Perl, I agree completely. But I also
have to code in VBA6 (shudder) and use the debugger all the time there.
Some reasons:
- Bugs in Perl are rare, in Perl modules rarer than in VBA6. In VBA6 they
are plenty
- Documentation of Perl and Perl modules is vastly better, in VBA6 I
often have to resort to try-it-out-and-figure-out-what-happens. And in
Perl you can at least look at the source of the modules, they are
documentation as well (and I do that a lot).
- The VBA6 debugger is vastly better than the perl debugger, making it
attractive to single step through new code to see if the code behaves the
way you thought it would.
- Perl is so much more powerful, you have to write a lot less code to
achieve the same goal. Less LOC, less bugs.
When I code in C or C++, I use the debugger more often than in Perl, but
still not very often.
M4
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 5 Aug 2010 19:39:15 +0100
From: Ben Morrow <ben@morrow.me.uk>
Subject: Re: Main pod in CPAN module
Message-Id: <j3dri7-sdt2.ln1@osiris.mauzo.dyndns.org>
Quoth Marc Girod <marc.girod@gmail.com>:
> Hello,
>
> Last time I updated my ClearCase::Wrapper::MGi module on CPAN, I made
> one unfortunate error which had a result surprisiing to me: I added
> one new pod file in the extra directory, named Configuration.pod.
>
> My main documentation page is generated from the MGi.pm file, in the
> top directory, and had been linked so far (i.e. until v 0.20) to the
> ClearCase::Wrapper::MGi module line. E.g.:
>
> http://search.cpan.org/~mgi/ClearCase-Wrapper-MGi-0.20/
>
> Somehow, because of alphanumeric sorting order I presume,
> Configuration.pod took over MGi.pm in:
>
> http://search.cpan.org/~mgi/ClearCase-Wrapper-MGi-0.21/
>
> In this page, clicking on ClearCase::Wrapper::MGi opens:
>
> http://search.cpan.org/~mgi/ClearCase-Wrapper-MGi-0.21/extra/Configuration.pod
This file contains
=head1 NAME
ClearCase::Wrapper::MGi Configuration
Since this is in the same form as the standard
=head1 NAME
Module::Name ABSTRACT
search.cpan.org is assuming it is the documentation for CC::W::MGi.
The solution is to change that NAME section, probably to
=head1 NAME
ClearCase::Wrapper::MGi::Configuration - Configuration for CC::W::MGi
or some such.
Ben
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 5 Aug 2010 13:03:52 -0700 (PDT)
From: Marc Girod <marc.girod@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Main pod in CPAN module
Message-Id: <79148523-f112-4d9c-bb6a-1478d7628feb@f6g2000yqa.googlegroups.com>
On Aug 5, 7:39=A0pm, Ben Morrow <b...@morrow.me.uk> wrote:
> This file contains
>
> =A0 =A0 =3Dhead1 NAME
>
> =A0 =A0 ClearCase::Wrapper::MGi Configuration
Thanks Ben!
I completely missed it, obvious as it is after you wrote it...
Marc
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 06 Aug 2010 02:12:39 -0500
From: tadmc@seesig.invalid
Subject: Posting Guidelines for comp.lang.perl.misc ($Revision: 1.9 $)
Message-Id: <Ivqdnamr8Yx6KMbRnZ2dnUVZ5jydnZ2d@giganews.com>
Outline
Before posting to comp.lang.perl.misc
Must
- Check the Perl Frequently Asked Questions (FAQ)
- Check the other standard Perl docs (*.pod)
Really Really Should
- Lurk for a while before posting
- Search a Usenet archive
If You Like
- Check Other Resources
Posting to comp.lang.perl.misc
Is there a better place to ask your question?
- Question should be about Perl, not about the application area
How to participate (post) in the clpmisc community
- Carefully choose the contents of your Subject header
- Use an effective followup style
- Speak Perl rather than English, when possible
- Ask perl to help you
- Do not re-type Perl code
- Provide enough information
- Do not provide too much information
- Do not post binaries, HTML, or MIME
Social faux pas to avoid
- Asking a Frequently Asked Question
- Asking a question easily answered by a cursory doc search
- Asking for emailed answers
- Beware of saying "doesn't work"
- Sending a "stealth" Cc copy
Be extra cautious when you get upset
- Count to ten before composing a followup when you are upset
- Count to ten after composing and before posting when you are upset
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Posting Guidelines for comp.lang.perl.misc ($Revision: 1.9 $)
This newsgroup, commonly called clpmisc, is a technical newsgroup
intended to be used for discussion of Perl related issues (except job
postings), whether it be comments or questions.
As you would expect, clpmisc discussions are usually very technical in
nature and there are conventions for conduct in technical newsgroups
going somewhat beyond those in non-technical newsgroups.
The article at:
http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html
describes how to get answers from technical people in general.
This article describes things that you should, and should not, do to
increase your chances of getting an answer to your Perl question. It is
available in POD, HTML and plain text formats at:
http://www.rehabitation.com/clpmisc.shtml
For more information about netiquette in general, see the "Netiquette
Guidelines" at:
http://andrew2.andrew.cmu.edu/rfc/rfc1855.html
A note to newsgroup "regulars":
Do not use these guidelines as a "license to flame" or other
meanness. It is possible that a poster is unaware of things
discussed here. Give them the benefit of the doubt, and just
help them learn how to post, rather than assume that they do
know and are being the "bad kind" of Lazy.
A note about technical terms used here:
In this document, we use words like "must" and "should" as
they're used in technical conversation (such as you will
encounter in this newsgroup). When we say that you *must* do
something, we mean that if you don't do that something, then
it's unlikely that you will benefit much from this group.
We're not bossing you around; we're making the point without
lots of words.
Do *NOT* send email to the maintainer of these guidelines. It will be
discarded unread. The guidelines belong to the newsgroup so all
discussion should appear in the newsgroup. I am just the secretary that
writes down the consensus of the group.
Before posting to comp.lang.perl.misc
Must
This section describes things that you *must* do before posting to
clpmisc, in order to maximize your chances of getting meaningful replies
to your inquiry and to avoid getting flamed for being lazy and trying to
have others do your work.
The perl distribution includes documentation that is copied to your hard
drive when you install perl. Also installed is a program for looking
things up in that (and other) documentation named 'perldoc'.
You should either find out where the docs got installed on your system,
or use perldoc to find them for you. Type "perldoc perldoc" to learn how
to use perldoc itself. Type "perldoc perl" to start reading Perl's
standard documentation.
Check the Perl Frequently Asked Questions (FAQ)
Checking the FAQ before posting is required in Big 8 newsgroups in
general, there is nothing clpmisc-specific about this requirement.
You are expected to do this in nearly all newsgroups.
You can use the "-q" switch with perldoc to do a word search of the
questions in the Perl FAQs.
Check the other standard Perl docs (*.pod)
The perl distribution comes with much more documentation than is
available for most other newsgroups, so in clpmisc you should also
see if you can find an answer in the other (non-FAQ) standard docs
before posting.
It is *not* required, or even expected, that you actually *read* all of
Perl's standard docs, only that you spend a few minutes searching them
before posting.
Try doing a word-search in the standard docs for some words/phrases
taken from your problem statement or from your very carefully worded
"Subject:" header.
Really Really Should
This section describes things that you *really should* do before posting
to clpmisc.
Lurk for a while before posting
This is very important and expected in all newsgroups. Lurking means
to monitor a newsgroup for a period to become familiar with local
customs. Each newsgroup has specific customs and rituals. Knowing
these before you participate will help avoid embarrassing social
situations. Consider yourself to be a foreigner at first!
Search a Usenet archive
There are tens of thousands of Perl programmers. It is very likely
that your question has already been asked (and answered). See if you
can find where it has already been answered.
One such searchable archive is:
http://groups.google.com/advanced_search
If You Like
This section describes things that you *can* do before posting to
clpmisc.
Check Other Resources
You may want to check in books or on web sites to see if you can
find the answer to your question.
But you need to consider the source of such information: there are a
lot of very poor Perl books and web sites, and several good ones
too, of course.
Posting to comp.lang.perl.misc
There can be 200 messages in clpmisc in a single day. Nobody is going to
read every article. They must decide somehow which articles they are
going to read, and which they will skip.
Your post is in competition with 199 other posts. You need to "win"
before a person who can help you will even read your question.
These sections describe how you can help keep your article from being
one of the "skipped" ones.
Is there a better place to ask your question?
Question should be about Perl, not about the application area
It can be difficult to separate out where your problem really is,
but you should make a conscious effort to post to the most
applicable newsgroup. That is, after all, where you are the most
likely to find the people who know how to answer your question.
Being able to "partition" a problem is an essential skill for
effectively troubleshooting programming problems. If you don't get
that right, you end up looking for answers in the wrong places.
It should be understood that you may not know that the root of your
problem is not Perl-related (the two most frequent ones are CGI and
Operating System related), so off-topic postings will happen from
time to time. Be gracious when someone helps you find a better place
to ask your question by pointing you to a more applicable newsgroup.
How to participate (post) in the clpmisc community
Carefully choose the contents of your Subject header
You have 40 precious characters of Subject to win out and be one of
the posts that gets read. Don't waste them. Take care while
composing them, they are the key that opens the door to getting an
answer.
Spend them indicating what aspect of Perl others will find if they
should decide to read your article.
Do not spend them indicating "experience level" (guru, newbie...).
Do not spend them pleading (please read, urgent, help!...).
Do not spend them on non-Subjects (Perl question, one-word
Subject...)
For more information on choosing a Subject see "Choosing Good
Subject Lines":
http://www.cpan.org/authors/id/D/DM/DMR/subjects.post
Part of the beauty of newsgroup dynamics, is that you can contribute
to the community with your very first post! If your choice of
Subject leads a fellow Perler to find the thread you are starting,
then even asking a question helps us all.
Use an effective followup style
When composing a followup, quote only enough text to establish the
context for the comments that you will add. Always indicate who
wrote the quoted material. Never quote an entire article. Never
quote a .signature (unless that is what you are commenting on).
Intersperse your comments *following* each section of quoted text to
which they relate. Unappreciated followup styles are referred to as
"top-posting", "Jeopardy" (because the answer comes before the
question), or "TOFU" (Text Over, Fullquote Under).
Reversing the chronology of the dialog makes it much harder to
understand (some folks won't even read it if written in that style).
For more information on quoting style, see:
http://web.presby.edu/~nnqadmin/nnq/nquote.html
Speak Perl rather than English, when possible
Perl is much more precise than natural language. Saying it in Perl
instead will avoid misunderstanding your question or problem.
Do not say: I have variable with "foo\tbar" in it.
Instead say: I have $var = "foo\tbar", or I have $var = 'foo\tbar',
or I have $var = <DATA> (and show the data line).
Ask perl to help you
You can ask perl itself to help you find common programming mistakes
by doing two things: enable warnings (perldoc warnings) and enable
"strict"ures (perldoc strict).
You should not bother the hundreds/thousands of readers of the
newsgroup without first seeing if a machine can help you find your
problem. It is demeaning to be asked to do the work of a machine. It
will annoy the readers of your article.
You can look up any of the messages that perl might issue to find
out what the message means and how to resolve the potential mistake
(perldoc perldiag). If you would like perl to look them up for you,
you can put "use diagnostics;" near the top of your program.
Do not re-type Perl code
Use copy/paste or your editor's "import" function rather than
attempting to type in your code. If you make a typo you will get
followups about your typos instead of about the question you are
trying to get answered.
Provide enough information
If you do the things in this item, you will have an Extremely Good
chance of getting people to try and help you with your problem!
These features are a really big bonus toward your question winning
out over all of the other posts that you are competing with.
First make a short (less than 20-30 lines) and *complete* program
that illustrates the problem you are having. People should be able
to run your program by copy/pasting the code from your article. (You
will find that doing this step very often reveals your problem
directly. Leading to an answer much more quickly and reliably than
posting to Usenet.)
Describe *precisely* the input to your program. Also provide example
input data for your program. If you need to show file input, use the
__DATA__ token (perldata.pod) to provide the file contents inside of
your Perl program.
Show the output (including the verbatim text of any messages) of
your program.
Describe how you want the output to be different from what you are
getting.
If you have no idea at all of how to code up your situation, be sure
to at least describe the 2 things that you *do* know: input and
desired output.
Do not provide too much information
Do not just post your entire program for debugging. Most especially
do not post someone *else's* entire program.
Do not post binaries, HTML, or MIME
clpmisc is a text only newsgroup. If you have images or binaries
that explain your question, put them in a publically accessible
place (like a Web server) and provide a pointer to that location. If
you include code, cut and paste it directly in the message body.
Don't attach anything to the message. Don't post vcards or HTML.
Many people (and even some Usenet servers) will automatically filter
out such messages. Many people will not be able to easily read your
post. Plain text is something everyone can read.
Social faux pas to avoid
The first two below are symptoms of lots of FAQ asking here in clpmisc.
It happens so often that folks will assume that it is happening yet
again. If you have looked but not found, or found but didn't understand
the docs, say so in your article.
Asking a Frequently Asked Question
It should be understood that you may have missed the applicable FAQ
when you checked, which is not a big deal. But if the Frequently
Asked Question is worded similar to your question, folks will assume
that you did not look at all. Don't become indignant at pointers to
the FAQ, particularly if it solves your problem.
Asking a question easily answered by a cursory doc search
If folks think you have not even tried the obvious step of reading
the docs applicable to your problem, they are likely to become
annoyed.
If you are flamed for not checking when you *did* check, then just
shrug it off (and take the answer that you got).
Asking for emailed answers
Emailed answers benefit one person. Posted answers benefit the
entire community. If folks can take the time to answer your
question, then you can take the time to go get the answer in the
same place where you asked the question.
It is OK to ask for a *copy* of the answer to be emailed, but many
will ignore such requests anyway. If you munge your address, you
should never expect (or ask) to get email in response to a Usenet
post.
Ask the question here, get the answer here (maybe).
Beware of saying "doesn't work"
This is a "red flag" phrase. If you find yourself writing that,
pause and see if you can't describe what is not working without
saying "doesn't work". That is, describe how it is not what you
want.
Sending a "stealth" Cc copy
A "stealth Cc" is when you both email and post a reply without
indicating *in the body* that you are doing so.
Be extra cautious when you get upset
Count to ten before composing a followup when you are upset
This is recommended in all Usenet newsgroups. Here in clpmisc, most
flaming sub-threads are not about any feature of Perl at all! They
are most often for what was seen as a breach of netiquette. If you
have lurked for a bit, then you will know what is expected and won't
make such posts in the first place.
But if you get upset, wait a while before writing your followup. I
recommend waiting at least 30 minutes.
Count to ten after composing and before posting when you are upset
After you have written your followup, wait *another* 30 minutes
before committing yourself by posting it. You cannot take it back
once it has been said.
AUTHOR
Tad McClellan and many others on the comp.lang.perl.misc newsgroup.
--
Tad McClellan
email: perl -le "print scalar reverse qq/moc.liamg\100cm.j.dat/"
The above message is a Usenet post.
I don't recall having given anyone permission to use it on a Web site.
------------------------------
Date: 6 Apr 2001 21:33:47 GMT (Last modified)
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Subject: Digest Administrivia (Last modified: 6 Apr 01)
Message-Id: <null>
Administrivia:
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------------------------------
End of Perl-Users Digest V11 Issue 3064
***************************************
