[31731] in Perl-Users-Digest
Perl-Users Digest, Issue: 2994 Volume: 11
daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (Perl-Users Digest)
Fri Jun 18 14:09:20 2010
Date: Fri, 18 Jun 2010 11:09:04 -0700 (PDT)
From: Perl-Users Digest <Perl-Users-Request@ruby.OCE.ORST.EDU>
To: Perl-Users@ruby.OCE.ORST.EDU (Perl-Users Digest)
Perl-Users Digest Fri, 18 Jun 2010 Volume: 11 Number: 2994
Today's topics:
Re: How to change file creation timestamp in Perl? <ben@morrow.me.uk>
Re: MIME::Lite and AUTH only after STARTTLS (smtp.gmail <r.ted.byers@gmail.com>
Re: MIME::Lite and AUTH only after STARTTLS (smtp.gmail <ben@morrow.me.uk>
Posting Guidelines for comp.lang.perl.misc ($Revision: tadmc@seesig.invalid
Re: Posting Guidelines for comp.lang.perl.misc ($Revisi <ralph@happydays.com>
Re: Posting Guidelines for comp.lang.perl.misc ($Revisi <tadmc@seesig.invalid>
Posting Guidelines for comp.lang.perl.misc ($Revision: <ralph@happydays.com>
Re: problem sending email using MIME::Lite from gmail's <apeiron@isuckatdomains.net.invalid>
Digest Administrivia (Last modified: 6 Apr 01) (Perl-Users-Digest Admin)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Thu, 17 Jun 2010 23:24:22 +0100
From: Ben Morrow <ben@morrow.me.uk>
Subject: Re: How to change file creation timestamp in Perl?
Message-Id: <mtjqe7-u051.ln1@osiris.mauzo.dyndns.org>
Quoth "void.no.spam.com@gmail.com" <void.no.spam.com@gmail.com>:
> I know Perl has the utime function, but that only changes the access
> and modification timestamps. Is there a way to change the creation
> timestamp of a file? I'm using ActivePerl on Windows.
You will need a Win32-specific function for this: changing a file's
ctime (which is *not* a create time, although Win32 perl maps create
time to ctime) is impossible under Unix.
Win32API::File::Time looks somewhat convincing, though I've never used
it.
Ben
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 17 Jun 2010 17:57:58 -0700 (PDT)
From: Ted Byers <r.ted.byers@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: MIME::Lite and AUTH only after STARTTLS (smtp.gmail.com)
Message-Id: <d4f1af34-e995-458d-9922-83f1aa6db8d2@i31g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
On Jun 17, 5:59=A0pm, Andrzej Adam Filip <a...@onet.eu> wrote:
> Ted Byers <r.ted.by...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > On Jun 17, 4:05=A0pm, Andrzej Adam Filip <a...@onet.eu> wrote:
> >> Ted Byers <r.ted.by...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> > I am using Activestate perl 5.10.0 on WXP, if that matters.
>
> >> > I can get all the examples to work properly for trivially simple
> >> > emails. =A0However, the following:
>
> >> > =A0 MIME::Lite->send('smtp','smtp.gmail.com',AuthUser=3D>$un, AuthPa=
ss=3D>
> >> > $pw, Timeout =3D> 60);
>
> >> > produces the error:
>
> >> > SMTP auth() command not supported on smtp.gmail.com
>
> >> > If I remove the credentials, I get an error about the need to
> >> > establish a secure channel, specifically:
>
> >> > SMTP mail() command failed:
> >> > 5.7.0 Must issue a STARTTLS command first. 11sm9055536vcp.45
> >> > [...]
>
> >> 1) smtp.gmail.com offers support of AUTH command in SMTP session *AFTE=
R*
> >> =A0 =A0receiving STARTTLS (after switching to encrypted connection).
>
> >> #v+
> >> ... Connecting to smtp.gmail.com via esmtp...
> >> 220 mx.google.com ESMTP x16sm15625549bku.5>>> EHLO xxxx
>
> >> 250-mx.google.com at your service, [aaa.bbb.ccc.ddd]
> >> 250-SIZE 35651584
> >> 250-8BITMIME
> >> 250-STARTTLS
> >> 250-ENHANCEDSTATUSCODES
> >> 250 PIPELINING>>> STARTTLS
>
> >> 220 2.0.0 Ready to start TLS>>> EHLO xxxx
>
> >> 250-mx.google.com at your service, [aaa.bbb.ccc.ddd]
> >> 250-SIZE 35651584
> >> 250-8BITMIME
> >> 250-AUTH LOGIN PLAIN
> >> 250-ENHANCEDSTATUSCODES
> >> 250 PIPELINING
> >> #v-
>
> >> 2) MIME::Lite uses Net::SMTP for sending via SMTP.
>
> >> Net::SMTP due to its design requires non trivial rewrite to support bo=
th
> >> encrypted and non encrypted connections.
>
> >> Possible fix:
> >> a) use MIME::Lite to compose the message $msg->as_string
> >> b) send message using Net::SMTP::TLS module from CPAN
> >> =A0 =A0[ I have not used Net::SMTP::TLS myself ]
>
> > Thanks Andrzej
>
> > So far so good. =A0I have been able to connect to gmail and send plain
> > text email using Net::SMTP::TLS. =A0However, I suspect there is a bug i=
n
> > $msg->as_string because my logo.jpg is damaged, and the <img ...> tag
> > seems broken (i.e. the image does not appear in the right place in the
> > html body). =A0This is in contrast to when I use the defaults in
> > MIME::Lite but the smtp services of my =A0M$ Exchange server (the only
> > reason I am not using that server here is that the domain required for
> > sending is on the gmail email account).
>
> > Since MIME::Lite uses Net::SMTP, and I can use Net::SMTP::TLS to
> > connect to gmail, is there a way to tell MIME::Lite to use the sender
> > I make using Net::SMTP::TLS, or that it should use Net::SMTP::TLS
> > instead of Net::SMTP?
>
> *Test* the hack below to make MIME::Lite use Net::SMTP::TLS instead of
> Net::SMTP:
>
> use MIME::Lite;
> use Net::SMTP::TLS;
> BEGIN { @MIME::Lite::SMTP::ISA =3D qw(Net::SMTP::TLS); }
>
> --
> [pl>en Andrew] Andrzej Adam Filip : a...@onet.eu : Andrzej.Fi...@gmail.co=
m
> "Freedom is still the most radical idea of all."
> =A0 -- Nathaniel Branden
Thanks, that changes things. But I get a different error:
Can't locate object method "supports" via package "MIME::Lite::SMTP"
at C:/Perl/site/lib/MIME/Lite.pm line 2872, <GEN3> line 7.
Does this tell you more than it tells me?
Thanks
Ted
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 18 Jun 2010 03:01:47 +0100
From: Ben Morrow <ben@morrow.me.uk>
Subject: Re: MIME::Lite and AUTH only after STARTTLS (smtp.gmail.com)
Message-Id: <bl0re7-0p61.ln1@osiris.mauzo.dyndns.org>
Quoth Ted Byers <r.ted.byers@gmail.com>:
> On Jun 17, 5:59 pm, Andrzej Adam Filip <a...@onet.eu> wrote:
> >
> > *Test* the hack below to make MIME::Lite use Net::SMTP::TLS instead of
> > Net::SMTP:
> >
> > use MIME::Lite;
> > use Net::SMTP::TLS;
> > BEGIN { @MIME::Lite::SMTP::ISA = qw(Net::SMTP::TLS); }
>
> Thanks, that changes things. But I get a different error:
>
> Can't locate object method "supports" via package "MIME::Lite::SMTP"
> at C:/Perl/site/lib/MIME/Lite.pm line 2872, <GEN3> line 7.
MIME::Lite is using the undocumented Net::SMTP method ->supports. This
is arguably a bug in MIME::Lite; OTOH changind a class's @ISA behind its
back isn't very polite either.
I would recommend using Email::Sender::Transport::SMTP::TLS, though it's
marked as alpha so you will want to test it thoroughly first.
Ben
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 18 Jun 2010 02:15:22 -0500
From: tadmc@seesig.invalid
Subject: Posting Guidelines for comp.lang.perl.misc ($Revision: 1.9 $)
Message-Id: <C5KdneOgB_6XgIbRnZ2dnUVZ_oudnZ2d@giganews.com>
Outline
Before posting to comp.lang.perl.misc
Must
- Check the Perl Frequently Asked Questions (FAQ)
- Check the other standard Perl docs (*.pod)
Really Really Should
- Lurk for a while before posting
- Search a Usenet archive
If You Like
- Check Other Resources
Posting to comp.lang.perl.misc
Is there a better place to ask your question?
- Question should be about Perl, not about the application area
How to participate (post) in the clpmisc community
- Carefully choose the contents of your Subject header
- Use an effective followup style
- Speak Perl rather than English, when possible
- Ask perl to help you
- Do not re-type Perl code
- Provide enough information
- Do not provide too much information
- Do not post binaries, HTML, or MIME
Social faux pas to avoid
- Asking a Frequently Asked Question
- Asking a question easily answered by a cursory doc search
- Asking for emailed answers
- Beware of saying "doesn't work"
- Sending a "stealth" Cc copy
Be extra cautious when you get upset
- Count to ten before composing a followup when you are upset
- Count to ten after composing and before posting when you are upset
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Posting Guidelines for comp.lang.perl.misc ($Revision: 1.9 $)
This newsgroup, commonly called clpmisc, is a technical newsgroup
intended to be used for discussion of Perl related issues (except job
postings), whether it be comments or questions.
As you would expect, clpmisc discussions are usually very technical in
nature and there are conventions for conduct in technical newsgroups
going somewhat beyond those in non-technical newsgroups.
The article at:
http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html
describes how to get answers from technical people in general.
This article describes things that you should, and should not, do to
increase your chances of getting an answer to your Perl question. It is
available in POD, HTML and plain text formats at:
http://www.rehabitation.com/clpmisc.shtml
For more information about netiquette in general, see the "Netiquette
Guidelines" at:
http://andrew2.andrew.cmu.edu/rfc/rfc1855.html
A note to newsgroup "regulars":
Do not use these guidelines as a "license to flame" or other
meanness. It is possible that a poster is unaware of things
discussed here. Give them the benefit of the doubt, and just
help them learn how to post, rather than assume that they do
know and are being the "bad kind" of Lazy.
A note about technical terms used here:
In this document, we use words like "must" and "should" as
they're used in technical conversation (such as you will
encounter in this newsgroup). When we say that you *must* do
something, we mean that if you don't do that something, then
it's unlikely that you will benefit much from this group.
We're not bossing you around; we're making the point without
lots of words.
Do *NOT* send email to the maintainer of these guidelines. It will be
discarded unread. The guidelines belong to the newsgroup so all
discussion should appear in the newsgroup. I am just the secretary that
writes down the consensus of the group.
Before posting to comp.lang.perl.misc
Must
This section describes things that you *must* do before posting to
clpmisc, in order to maximize your chances of getting meaningful replies
to your inquiry and to avoid getting flamed for being lazy and trying to
have others do your work.
The perl distribution includes documentation that is copied to your hard
drive when you install perl. Also installed is a program for looking
things up in that (and other) documentation named 'perldoc'.
You should either find out where the docs got installed on your system,
or use perldoc to find them for you. Type "perldoc perldoc" to learn how
to use perldoc itself. Type "perldoc perl" to start reading Perl's
standard documentation.
Check the Perl Frequently Asked Questions (FAQ)
Checking the FAQ before posting is required in Big 8 newsgroups in
general, there is nothing clpmisc-specific about this requirement.
You are expected to do this in nearly all newsgroups.
You can use the "-q" switch with perldoc to do a word search of the
questions in the Perl FAQs.
Check the other standard Perl docs (*.pod)
The perl distribution comes with much more documentation than is
available for most other newsgroups, so in clpmisc you should also
see if you can find an answer in the other (non-FAQ) standard docs
before posting.
It is *not* required, or even expected, that you actually *read* all of
Perl's standard docs, only that you spend a few minutes searching them
before posting.
Try doing a word-search in the standard docs for some words/phrases
taken from your problem statement or from your very carefully worded
"Subject:" header.
Really Really Should
This section describes things that you *really should* do before posting
to clpmisc.
Lurk for a while before posting
This is very important and expected in all newsgroups. Lurking means
to monitor a newsgroup for a period to become familiar with local
customs. Each newsgroup has specific customs and rituals. Knowing
these before you participate will help avoid embarrassing social
situations. Consider yourself to be a foreigner at first!
Search a Usenet archive
There are tens of thousands of Perl programmers. It is very likely
that your question has already been asked (and answered). See if you
can find where it has already been answered.
One such searchable archive is:
http://groups.google.com/advanced_search
If You Like
This section describes things that you *can* do before posting to
clpmisc.
Check Other Resources
You may want to check in books or on web sites to see if you can
find the answer to your question.
But you need to consider the source of such information: there are a
lot of very poor Perl books and web sites, and several good ones
too, of course.
Posting to comp.lang.perl.misc
There can be 200 messages in clpmisc in a single day. Nobody is going to
read every article. They must decide somehow which articles they are
going to read, and which they will skip.
Your post is in competition with 199 other posts. You need to "win"
before a person who can help you will even read your question.
These sections describe how you can help keep your article from being
one of the "skipped" ones.
Is there a better place to ask your question?
Question should be about Perl, not about the application area
It can be difficult to separate out where your problem really is,
but you should make a conscious effort to post to the most
applicable newsgroup. That is, after all, where you are the most
likely to find the people who know how to answer your question.
Being able to "partition" a problem is an essential skill for
effectively troubleshooting programming problems. If you don't get
that right, you end up looking for answers in the wrong places.
It should be understood that you may not know that the root of your
problem is not Perl-related (the two most frequent ones are CGI and
Operating System related), so off-topic postings will happen from
time to time. Be gracious when someone helps you find a better place
to ask your question by pointing you to a more applicable newsgroup.
How to participate (post) in the clpmisc community
Carefully choose the contents of your Subject header
You have 40 precious characters of Subject to win out and be one of
the posts that gets read. Don't waste them. Take care while
composing them, they are the key that opens the door to getting an
answer.
Spend them indicating what aspect of Perl others will find if they
should decide to read your article.
Do not spend them indicating "experience level" (guru, newbie...).
Do not spend them pleading (please read, urgent, help!...).
Do not spend them on non-Subjects (Perl question, one-word
Subject...)
For more information on choosing a Subject see "Choosing Good
Subject Lines":
http://www.cpan.org/authors/id/D/DM/DMR/subjects.post
Part of the beauty of newsgroup dynamics, is that you can contribute
to the community with your very first post! If your choice of
Subject leads a fellow Perler to find the thread you are starting,
then even asking a question helps us all.
Use an effective followup style
When composing a followup, quote only enough text to establish the
context for the comments that you will add. Always indicate who
wrote the quoted material. Never quote an entire article. Never
quote a .signature (unless that is what you are commenting on).
Intersperse your comments *following* each section of quoted text to
which they relate. Unappreciated followup styles are referred to as
"top-posting", "Jeopardy" (because the answer comes before the
question), or "TOFU" (Text Over, Fullquote Under).
Reversing the chronology of the dialog makes it much harder to
understand (some folks won't even read it if written in that style).
For more information on quoting style, see:
http://web.presby.edu/~nnqadmin/nnq/nquote.html
Speak Perl rather than English, when possible
Perl is much more precise than natural language. Saying it in Perl
instead will avoid misunderstanding your question or problem.
Do not say: I have variable with "foo\tbar" in it.
Instead say: I have $var = "foo\tbar", or I have $var = 'foo\tbar',
or I have $var = <DATA> (and show the data line).
Ask perl to help you
You can ask perl itself to help you find common programming mistakes
by doing two things: enable warnings (perldoc warnings) and enable
"strict"ures (perldoc strict).
You should not bother the hundreds/thousands of readers of the
newsgroup without first seeing if a machine can help you find your
problem. It is demeaning to be asked to do the work of a machine. It
will annoy the readers of your article.
You can look up any of the messages that perl might issue to find
out what the message means and how to resolve the potential mistake
(perldoc perldiag). If you would like perl to look them up for you,
you can put "use diagnostics;" near the top of your program.
Do not re-type Perl code
Use copy/paste or your editor's "import" function rather than
attempting to type in your code. If you make a typo you will get
followups about your typos instead of about the question you are
trying to get answered.
Provide enough information
If you do the things in this item, you will have an Extremely Good
chance of getting people to try and help you with your problem!
These features are a really big bonus toward your question winning
out over all of the other posts that you are competing with.
First make a short (less than 20-30 lines) and *complete* program
that illustrates the problem you are having. People should be able
to run your program by copy/pasting the code from your article. (You
will find that doing this step very often reveals your problem
directly. Leading to an answer much more quickly and reliably than
posting to Usenet.)
Describe *precisely* the input to your program. Also provide example
input data for your program. If you need to show file input, use the
__DATA__ token (perldata.pod) to provide the file contents inside of
your Perl program.
Show the output (including the verbatim text of any messages) of
your program.
Describe how you want the output to be different from what you are
getting.
If you have no idea at all of how to code up your situation, be sure
to at least describe the 2 things that you *do* know: input and
desired output.
Do not provide too much information
Do not just post your entire program for debugging. Most especially
do not post someone *else's* entire program.
Do not post binaries, HTML, or MIME
clpmisc is a text only newsgroup. If you have images or binaries
that explain your question, put them in a publically accessible
place (like a Web server) and provide a pointer to that location. If
you include code, cut and paste it directly in the message body.
Don't attach anything to the message. Don't post vcards or HTML.
Many people (and even some Usenet servers) will automatically filter
out such messages. Many people will not be able to easily read your
post. Plain text is something everyone can read.
Social faux pas to avoid
The first two below are symptoms of lots of FAQ asking here in clpmisc.
It happens so often that folks will assume that it is happening yet
again. If you have looked but not found, or found but didn't understand
the docs, say so in your article.
Asking a Frequently Asked Question
It should be understood that you may have missed the applicable FAQ
when you checked, which is not a big deal. But if the Frequently
Asked Question is worded similar to your question, folks will assume
that you did not look at all. Don't become indignant at pointers to
the FAQ, particularly if it solves your problem.
Asking a question easily answered by a cursory doc search
If folks think you have not even tried the obvious step of reading
the docs applicable to your problem, they are likely to become
annoyed.
If you are flamed for not checking when you *did* check, then just
shrug it off (and take the answer that you got).
Asking for emailed answers
Emailed answers benefit one person. Posted answers benefit the
entire community. If folks can take the time to answer your
question, then you can take the time to go get the answer in the
same place where you asked the question.
It is OK to ask for a *copy* of the answer to be emailed, but many
will ignore such requests anyway. If you munge your address, you
should never expect (or ask) to get email in response to a Usenet
post.
Ask the question here, get the answer here (maybe).
Beware of saying "doesn't work"
This is a "red flag" phrase. If you find yourself writing that,
pause and see if you can't describe what is not working without
saying "doesn't work". That is, describe how it is not what you
want.
Sending a "stealth" Cc copy
A "stealth Cc" is when you both email and post a reply without
indicating *in the body* that you are doing so.
Be extra cautious when you get upset
Count to ten before composing a followup when you are upset
This is recommended in all Usenet newsgroups. Here in clpmisc, most
flaming sub-threads are not about any feature of Perl at all! They
are most often for what was seen as a breach of netiquette. If you
have lurked for a bit, then you will know what is expected and won't
make such posts in the first place.
But if you get upset, wait a while before writing your followup. I
recommend waiting at least 30 minutes.
Count to ten after composing and before posting when you are upset
After you have written your followup, wait *another* 30 minutes
before committing yourself by posting it. You cannot take it back
once it has been said.
AUTHOR
Tad McClellan and many others on the comp.lang.perl.misc newsgroup.
--
Tad McClellan
email: perl -le "print scalar reverse qq/moc.liamg\100cm.j.dat/"
The above message is a Usenet post.
I don't recall having given anyone permission to use it on a Web site.
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 18 Jun 2010 10:32:29 -0400
From: Ralph Malph <ralph@happydays.com>
Subject: Re: Posting Guidelines for comp.lang.perl.misc ($Revision: 1.9 $)
Message-Id: <35794$4c1b837e$40779ac3$19911@news.eurofeeds.com>
[tl,dnr]
> Tad McClellan and many others on the comp.lang.perl.misc newsgroup.
^^^^^^^^^^^
incorrect
Please stop posting this bullshit.
TIA
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 18 Jun 2010 10:02:12 -0500
From: Tad McClellan <tadmc@seesig.invalid>
Subject: Re: Posting Guidelines for comp.lang.perl.misc ($Revision: 1.9 $)
Message-Id: <slrni1n29l.qnc.tadmc@tadbox.sbcglobal.net>
Ralph Malph <ralph@happydays.com> wrote:
>> Tad McClellan and many others on the comp.lang.perl.misc newsgroup.
> ^^^^^^^^^^^
> incorrect
What makes you think that?
Maybe you just missed the discussion...
http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.perl.misc/browse_thread/thread/79f0fa4d1e149d/9e1f09d6b7a2940f?q&pli=1
> Please stop posting this bullshit.
I'll take that as one vote against.
--
Tad McClellan
email: perl -le "print scalar reverse qq/moc.liamg\100cm.j.dat/"
The above message is a Usenet post.
I don't recall having given anyone permission to use it on a Web site.
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 18 Jun 2010 13:24:33 -0400
From: Ralph Malph <ralph@happydays.com>
Subject: Posting Guidelines for comp.lang.perl.misc ($Revision: 2.0 $)
Message-Id: <75861$4c1babd3$40779ac3$5767@news.eurofeeds.com>
Full Text:
-No spam.
-If asking about code post a complete sample that can run on
its own and demonstrates the problem.
-Be nice to everyone including newbies. Don't question design
decisions too hard. That would contradict TMTOWTDI.
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 18 Jun 2010 04:21:35 +0000 (UTC)
From: Chris Nehren <apeiron@isuckatdomains.net.invalid>
Subject: Re: problem sending email using MIME::Lite from gmail's stmp server
Message-Id: <hves8f$4fa$1@news.eternal-september.org>
On 2010-06-17, Ted Byers scribbled these curious markings:
> I am using Activestate perl 5.10.0 on WXP, if that matters.
Yes, it does. Everyone using Windows has abandoned ActiveState in favor
of Strawberry. ActiveState Perl is for ActiveState to sell support
contracts and should be treated as such (much as RHELL is for RedHat to
sell support contracts). You should contact your support representative
for help with this issue.
[snip 1995-era MIME::Lite code that doesn't work]
People living in the 21st century write email code using Email::MIME,
Email::Sender, and optionally Email::MIME::Kit. For sending through
Gmail, you'll want Email::Sender::Transport::SMTP::TLS. The example in
the synopsis should get you started. It's specifically written for
Gmail.
--
Thanks and best regards,
Chris Nehren
Unless noted, all content I post is CC-BY-SA.
------------------------------
Date: 6 Apr 2001 21:33:47 GMT (Last modified)
From: Perl-Users-Request@ruby.oce.orst.edu (Perl-Users-Digest Admin)
Subject: Digest Administrivia (Last modified: 6 Apr 01)
Message-Id: <null>
Administrivia:
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------------------------------
End of Perl-Users Digest V11 Issue 2994
***************************************
