[31602] in Perl-Users-Digest
Perl-Users Digest, Issue: 2861 Volume: 11
daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (Perl-Users Digest)
Wed Mar 10 00:09:25 2010
Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2010 21:09:08 -0800 (PST)
From: Perl-Users Digest <Perl-Users-Request@ruby.OCE.ORST.EDU>
To: Perl-Users@ruby.OCE.ORST.EDU (Perl-Users Digest)
Perl-Users Digest Tue, 9 Mar 2010 Volume: 11 Number: 2861
Today's topics:
Re: ? : statement not working as expected <darkon.tdo@gmail.com>
Re: FAQ 8.21 Where do I get the include files to do ioc <kst-u@mib.org>
Re: FAQ 8.21 Where do I get the include files to do ioc <Phred@example.invalid>
Re: FAQ 8.21 Where do I get the include files to do ioc <Phred@example.invalid>
Re: how to deliver a GUI app to an end user <cartercc@gmail.com>
Re: Return text left of first tab <glex_no-spam@qwest-spam-no.invalid>
Re: s///gsi; with a wildcard <jwcarlton@gmail.com>
Re: s///gsi; with a wildcard <tadmc@seesig.invalid>
Re: s///gsi; with a wildcard <jwcarlton@gmail.com>
Re: s///gsi; with a wildcard sln@netherlands.com
Re: s///gsi; with a wildcard <tadmc@seesig.invalid>
Re: s///gsi; with a wildcard <jwcarlton@gmail.com>
Re: Simple regex question <jurgenex@hotmail.com>
Digest Administrivia (Last modified: 6 Apr 01) (Perl-Users-Digest Admin)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Tue, 09 Mar 2010 15:37:38 -0600
From: darkon <darkon.tdo@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: ? : statement not working as expected
Message-Id: <Xns9D36A924DA003darkon@216.168.3.30>
"Uri Guttman" <uri@StemSystems.com> wrote:
> ?: is meant to return an expression based on a boolean. it it NOT
> meant to do side effects like assignment.
When I did that you textually gagged. (GAK!) :-)
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 09 Mar 2010 14:51:18 -0800
From: Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org>
Subject: Re: FAQ 8.21 Where do I get the include files to do ioctl() or syscall()?
Message-Id: <lnlje1m7mh.fsf@nuthaus.mib.org>
Phred Phungus <Phred@example.invalid> writes:
> Jean-Rene David wrote:
>> * PerlFAQ Server [2010.03.08 05:00]:
>>> 8.21: Where do I get the include files to do ioctl() or syscall()?
>> [...]
>>> doesn't work perfectly, but it usually gets most of the job
>>> done. Simple files like errno.h, syscall.h, and socket.h were
>>> fine, but the hard ones
>>
>> Shouldn't this be:
>>
>> "Simple files like errno.h, syscan.h, and socket.h *work*
>> fine, ..."?
>>
>
> I think so, but you snip a little too closely to make your case.
>
> Simple files like errno.h, syscall.h, and socket.h were fine, but the
> hard ones like ioctl.h nearly always need to hand-edited.
>
> This probably wants to be:
>
> Simple files like errno.h, syscall.h, and socket.h work fine, but the
> hard ones like ioctl.h nearly always need to be hand-edited.
I think it says "were" rather than "are" because that paragraph is
discussion h2ph in a historical context. In any case, the wording
certainly needs to be corrected (another error: "to hand-edited"
should be "to be hand-edited").
A possible fix would be:
Simple files like errno.h, syscall.h, and socket.h were fine, but the
hard ones like ioctl.h nearly always needed to be hand-edited.
if the intent is to emphasize that h2ph should no longer be used.
> My question is how syscall is different from C's
>
> int status;
> status = system("ls *");
>
> or
>
> FILE *fp;
> fp = popen ("ls *", "r");
>
> If I'm to rely on my own eyes reading syscall in _Programming Perl_, I
> would say they were completely disparate notions.
Yes, they're completely different things with an unfortunate
similarity in names.
A "system call" in a Unix-like system is an entry point into the
kernel. "man 2 intro" for more information. System calls are
distinct from library calls, which are ordinary function calls.
(System calls are typically done via library-level wrapper
functions.)
A "system call" is entirely distinct from a call to the "system()"
function; "system()" is a library routine, and a call to it is a
library call, not a system call.
The word "system" in "system call" refers to the kernel, the
innnermost core of the operating system. The "system()" function,
on the other hand, provides access to a much higher user-visible
level of the operating system.
--
Keith Thompson (The_Other_Keith) kst-u@mib.org <http://www.ghoti.net/~kst>
Nokia
"We must do something. This is something. Therefore, we must do this."
-- Antony Jay and Jonathan Lynn, "Yes Minister"
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 09 Mar 2010 17:45:04 -0700
From: Phred Phungus <Phred@example.invalid>
Subject: Re: FAQ 8.21 Where do I get the include files to do ioctl() or syscall()?
Message-Id: <7vo8chFhp3U1@mid.individual.net>
Ben Morrow wrote:
> No, I think someone has just incorrectly changed the tense of that
> sentence at some point in the past. I suspect what was meant is
>
> Simple files like errno.h, syscall.h and socket.h are fine, but the
> hard ones like ioctl.h nearly always need to be hand-edited.
yeah.
>
>> My question is how syscall is different from C's
>>
>> int status;
>> status = system("ls *");
>>
>> or
>>
>> FILE *fp;
>> fp = popen ("ls *", "r");
>>
>> If I'm to rely on my own eyes reading syscall in _Programming Perl_, I
>> would say they were completely disparate notions.
>
> I don't understand the question. syscall is completely different from
> either system or popen (or ls, for that matter).
Yet you answered the question. Lew Pitcher used them synonymously in
one of his explanations, which are usually very careful and correct.
Maybe we have tendency to elide system call to sys call.
--
fred
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 09 Mar 2010 18:45:41 -0700
From: Phred Phungus <Phred@example.invalid>
Subject: Re: FAQ 8.21 Where do I get the include files to do ioctl() or syscall()?
Message-Id: <7vobu6F19rU1@mid.individual.net>
Keith Thompson wrote:
> Phred Phungus <Phred@example.invalid> writes:
>> Jean-Rene David wrote:
>>> * PerlFAQ Server [2010.03.08 05:00]:
>>>> 8.21: Where do I get the include files to do ioctl() or syscall()?
>>> [...]
>>>> doesn't work perfectly, but it usually gets most of the job
>>>> done. Simple files like errno.h, syscall.h, and socket.h were
>>>> fine, but the hard ones
>>> Shouldn't this be:
>>>
>>> "Simple files like errno.h, syscan.h, and socket.h *work*
>>> fine, ..."?
>>>
>> I think so, but you snip a little too closely to make your case.
>>
>> Simple files like errno.h, syscall.h, and socket.h were fine, but the
>> hard ones like ioctl.h nearly always need to hand-edited.
>>
>> This probably wants to be:
>>
>> Simple files like errno.h, syscall.h, and socket.h work fine, but the
>> hard ones like ioctl.h nearly always need to be hand-edited.
>
> I think it says "were" rather than "are" because that paragraph is
> discussion h2ph in a historical context. In any case, the wording
> certainly needs to be corrected (another error: "to hand-edited"
> should be "to be hand-edited").
>
> A possible fix would be:
>
> Simple files like errno.h, syscall.h, and socket.h were fine, but the
> hard ones like ioctl.h nearly always needed to be hand-edited.
>
> if the intent is to emphasize that h2ph should no longer be used.
Gosh, the basic idea was that there had to be some agreement in the verb
tense, which can also be achieved in the past tense.
>
>> My question is how syscall is different from C's
>>
>> int status;
>> status = system("ls *");
>>
>> or
>>
>> FILE *fp;
>> fp = popen ("ls *", "r");
>>
>> If I'm to rely on my own eyes reading syscall in _Programming Perl_, I
>> would say they were completely disparate notions.
>
> Yes, they're completely different things with an unfortunate
> similarity in names.
>
> A "system call" in a Unix-like system is an entry point into the
> kernel. "man 2 intro" for more information. System calls are
> distinct from library calls, which are ordinary function calls.
> (System calls are typically done via library-level wrapper
> functions.)
>
> A "system call" is entirely distinct from a call to the "system()"
> function; "system()" is a library routine, and a call to it is a
> library call, not a system call.
>
> The word "system" in "system call" refers to the kernel, the
> innnermost core of the operating system. The "system()" function,
> on the other hand, provides access to a much higher user-visible
> level of the operating system.
>
Ok. thx keith. I think I understand. *
--
fred
*caveat: I may not understand.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2010 17:41:20 -0800 (PST)
From: ccc31807 <cartercc@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: how to deliver a GUI app to an end user
Message-Id: <4c75f176-999e-46e1-92de-2e524a80c305@k17g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>
On Mar 9, 10:53=A0am, Ben Morrow <b...@morrow.me.uk> wrote:
> > There are two issues here, both created by idiots. The first is the
> > prejudice against CLI applications, and I've been explicitly told not
> > to give non-IT users CLI scripts because they are incapable of running
> > them. PuTTy would fall into this category.
>
> This is not stupid.
Actually, I was only venting. I know that they're not idiots -- they
just have a different frame of reference, and I can deal with that.
However, using the word 'idiot' sometimes has a desirable paradigm
changing effect, provided the technique isn't over used.
> Even if you provided a curses-type 'gui', I suspect
> most ordinary users would find being unable to use the mouse unbearably
> confusing.
You are 100% correct. However, if an employee holds himself or herself
out of have specific skills, you get to rely on the representations of
the employee.
> The reasoning behind this (wanting to avoid liability, by ensuring
> someone has a contract) is not stupid, but too many people fail to
> realize just how little in the way of safety their expensive contracts
> are buying them. This is not helped by people like us dismissing the
> whole concern out of hand.
I agree, but would add that a large part of it is ignorance, that is,
not understanding a technology. People tend to be afraid of what they
don't understand, but there's a difference between dealing with
something you don't understand by trying to understand it, and dealing
with it by shoving your head in the sand and your arse into the
sunlight.
> 'Can be used by the intended user' is always an implicit functional
> requirement.
I agree 100%. See below.
> It's part of your job as a
> programmer to anticipate these unspoken requirements, since you
> understand the problem better than those giving you the spec.
This depends on what 'your job' is. As it happens, my job is NOT to
build GUIs that allow lay people to work easily. My job is to support
the line staff by giving them the information they need to do their
job. It's not up to me to tell them what information they need, what
their job is, or how to use the information to do their job.
<rant>I'm allowed to squeal when required to perform some needless
piece of insanity when someone else is not competent to perform their
assigned duties.</rant>
I also understand that being a valued member of a team, and a
professional, requires one to set aside his personal feelings and
prejudices and to work to assist the other team members in the joint
effort. I'm not being mean or selfish or derogatory, just exercising
my (earned) right to voice my feelings in a place where I can get away
with it.
Thanks, CC.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 09 Mar 2010 19:06:04 -0600
From: "J. Gleixner" <glex_no-spam@qwest-spam-no.invalid>
Subject: Re: Return text left of first tab
Message-Id: <4b96f07d$0$87064$815e3792@news.qwest.net>
Don Pich wrote:
>> What have you tried to so far? Where are you stuck? Which part of your
>> program doesn't produce the result you want? What behaviour are you
>> observing compared to what behaviour are you expecting?
>
> Here is my script as it stands right now:
>
> #!/usr/bin/perl
> use strict;
> use warnings;
> my $infile = 'Pannaway.txt';
> my $outfile = 'BASIP.list';
> open( INFILE, "< $infile" ) or die "Can't open $infile : $!";
> open( OUTFILE, "> $outfile" ) or die "Can't open $outfile : $!";
> while (<INFILE>){
> if (/BAS-ADSL/)
> {
> my ($line) = $_;
>
> my @values = split('\.', $data);
$data isn't defined, so there's no way this worked.
> foreach my $val (@values) {
> $val = sprintf("%02x", $val);
> printf OUTFILE $val;
> }
> print OUTFILE "\n";
> } else {
> }
> }
> close (INFILE);
> close (OUTFILE);
>
> After the 'my ($line) = $_;' line, I need to eliminate everything after
> and including the first tab of a line in Pannaway.txt. Then send what is
> left (IP Address column only) into the my@values to convert the dotted
> quad ip address into a hex representation of the ip.
>
> snippet of 'Pannaway.txt':
>
> IP Address Name Type MAC Address
> Firmware
> 10.21.65.252 ADMS.01.01 BAS-ADSL24R 00:0A:9F:00:D4:75
> 3.2.1.28
> 10.21.66.252 ADMS.02.01 BAS-ADSL24R 00:0A:9F:00:D4:A5
> 3.2.1.28
> 10.21.66.250 ADMS.03.01 BAS-ADSL24R 00:0A:9F:00:D4:C1
> 3.2.1.28
> 10.21.66.248 ADMS.04.01 BAS-ADSL24R 00:0A:9F:00:D4:D1
> 3.2.1.28
> 10.21.67.252 ADMS.05.01 BAS-ADSL24R 00:0A:9F:00:E5:DA
> 3.2.1.28
>
> Desired output of BASIP.list:
>
> 0a1541fc
> 0a1542fc
> 0a1542fa
> 0a1542f8
> 0a1543fc
#!/usr/bin/perl
use strict;
use warnings;
my $infile = 'Pannaway.txt';
my $outfile = 'BASIP.list';
open( my $infile, '<', $infile ) or die "Can't open $infile : $!";
open( my $outfile, '>', $outfile ) or die "Can't open $outfile : $!";
while (<$infile>){
next unless /BAS-ADSL/;
my $ip = ( split( /\t/ ) )[0];
for my $val (split(/\./, $ip))
{
printf $outfile "%02x", $val;
}
print $outfile "\n";
}
close ($infile);
close ($outfile);
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2010 17:08:51 -0800 (PST)
From: Jason Carlton <jwcarlton@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: s///gsi; with a wildcard
Message-Id: <e6e1de90-ed19-4768-8ed2-8e9fb8c6f46e@g11g2000yqe.googlegroups.com>
On Mar 8, 10:03=A0pm, Jason Carlton <jwcarl...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Every once in awhile, someone will copy and paste into my message
> board from Word. After it submits through my Perl script, I'll have
> something like this plugged in:
>
> Normal 0 false false false EN-US X-NONE X-NONE
> MicrosoftInternetExplorer4 /* Style Definitions */
> table.MsoNormalTable {mso-style-name:"Table Normal"; mso-tstyle-
> rowband-size:0; mso-tstyle-colband-size:0; mso-style-noshow:yes; mso-
> style-priority:99; mso-style-qformat:yes; mso-style-parent:""; mso-
> padding-alt:0in 5.4pt 0in 5.4pt; mso-para-margin-top:0in; mso-para-
> margin-right:0in; mso-para-margin-bottom:10.0pt; mso-para-margin-left:
> 0in; line-height:115%; mso-pagination:widow-orphan; font-size:11.0pt;
> font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"; mso-ascii-font-family:Calibri; mso-
> ascii-theme-font:minor-latin; mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New
> Roman"; mso-fareast-theme-font:minor-fareast; mso-hansi-font-
> family:Calibri; mso-hansi-theme-font:minor-latin;}
>
> The fonts and all that are different for each post; the only
> consistency seems to be that it starts with "Normal 0 false false
> false", and it ends with a "}".
>
> Would something as simple as this be enough to consistently remove it?
>
> $comment =3D~ s/Normal 0 false false false.*?}//gsi;
>
> Or is there more to it than I'm thinking?
Sorry if I made that too much to read.
Basically, I want to remove "Normal 0 false false false" followed by
random stuff, but always ending with }.
Will this do it correctly, or will it remove other things that I'm not
recognizing?
$comment =3D~ s/Normal 0 false false false.*?}//gsi;
TIA,
Jason
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 09 Mar 2010 19:30:41 -0600
From: Tad McClellan <tadmc@seesig.invalid>
Subject: Re: s///gsi; with a wildcard
Message-Id: <slrnhpdtap.7ei.tadmc@tadbox.sbcglobal.net>
Jason Carlton <jwcarlton@gmail.com> wrote:
> Sorry if I made that too much to read.
You've shown in the past that anything you write is too much to read.
:-(
--
Tad McClellan
email: perl -le "print scalar reverse qq/moc.liamg\100cm.j.dat/"
The above message is a Usenet post.
I don't recall having given anyone permission to use it on a Web site.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2010 17:53:31 -0800 (PST)
From: Jason Carlton <jwcarlton@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: s///gsi; with a wildcard
Message-Id: <75cef5e7-517a-4e9d-be6a-efee806c29b9@t41g2000yqt.googlegroups.com>
On Mar 9, 8:30=A0pm, Tad McClellan <ta...@seesig.invalid> wrote:
> Jason Carlton <jwcarl...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > Sorry if I made that too much to read.
>
> You've shown in the past that anything you write is too much to read.
>
> :-(
>
> --
> Tad McClellan
> email: perl -le "print scalar reverse qq/moc.liamg\100cm.j.dat/"
> The above message is a Usenet post.
> I don't recall having given anyone permission to use it on a Web site.
So, you're saying that you don't know the answer? If so, then why
bother replying? Or spending time in a Perl NG, for that matter.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 09 Mar 2010 18:21:24 -0800
From: sln@netherlands.com
Subject: Re: s///gsi; with a wildcard
Message-Id: <ba0ep512pq0vpek270o1c63c5gr0c5kfgu@4ax.com>
On Mon, 8 Mar 2010 19:03:03 -0800 (PST), Jason Carlton <jwcarlton@gmail.com> wrote:
>Every once in awhile, someone will copy and paste into my message
>board from Word. After it submits through my Perl script, I'll have
>something like this plugged in:
>
>Normal 0 false false false EN-US X-NONE X-NONE
>MicrosoftInternetExplorer4 /* Style Definitions */
>table.MsoNormalTable {mso-style-name:"Table Normal"; mso-tstyle-
>rowband-size:0; mso-tstyle-colband-size:0; mso-style-noshow:yes; mso-
>style-priority:99; mso-style-qformat:yes; mso-style-parent:""; mso-
>padding-alt:0in 5.4pt 0in 5.4pt; mso-para-margin-top:0in; mso-para-
>margin-right:0in; mso-para-margin-bottom:10.0pt; mso-para-margin-left:
>0in; line-height:115%; mso-pagination:widow-orphan; font-size:11.0pt;
>font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"; mso-ascii-font-family:Calibri; mso-
>ascii-theme-font:minor-latin; mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New
>Roman"; mso-fareast-theme-font:minor-fareast; mso-hansi-font-
>family:Calibri; mso-hansi-theme-font:minor-latin;}
>
>The fonts and all that are different for each post; the only
>consistency seems to be that it starts with "Normal 0 false false
>false", and it ends with a "}".
>
>Would something as simple as this be enough to consistently remove it?
>
>$comment =~ s/Normal 0 false false false.*?}//gsi;
>
>Or is there more to it than I'm thinking?
$comment =~ s/Normal 0 false false false[^{]+\{[^}]+\}//;
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 09 Mar 2010 21:20:53 -0600
From: Tad McClellan <tadmc@seesig.invalid>
Subject: Re: s///gsi; with a wildcard
Message-Id: <slrnhpe3pd.7l3.tadmc@tadbox.sbcglobal.net>
Jason Carlton <jwcarlton@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Mar 9, 8:30Â pm, Tad McClellan <ta...@seesig.invalid> wrote:
>> Jason Carlton <jwcarl...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> > Sorry if I made that too much to read.
>>
>> You've shown in the past that anything you write is too much to read.
>>
>> :-(
>>
>> --
>> Tad McClellan
>> email: perl -le "print scalar reverse qq/moc.liamg\100cm.j.dat/"
>> The above message is a Usenet post.
>> I don't recall having given anyone permission to use it on a Web site.
It is bad netiquette to quote .sigs.
> So, you're saying that you don't know the answer?
No, I'm saying that I am withholding the answer.
--
Tad McClellan
email: perl -le "print scalar reverse qq/moc.liamg\100cm.j.dat/"
The above message is a Usenet post.
I don't recall having given anyone permission to use it on a Web site.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2010 20:49:58 -0800 (PST)
From: Jason Carlton <jwcarlton@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: s///gsi; with a wildcard
Message-Id: <df00bc5b-bf53-42cc-9a15-7b7b932e07da@i25g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
On Mar 9, 9:21=A0pm, s...@netherlands.com wrote:
> On Mon, 8 Mar 2010 19:03:03 -0800 (PST), Jason Carlton <jwcarl...@gmail.c=
om> wrote:
> >Every once in awhile, someone will copy and paste into my message
> >board from Word. After it submits through my Perl script, I'll have
> >something like this plugged in:
>
> >Normal 0 false false false EN-US X-NONE X-NONE
> >MicrosoftInternetExplorer4 /* Style Definitions */
> >table.MsoNormalTable {mso-style-name:"Table Normal"; mso-tstyle-
> >rowband-size:0; mso-tstyle-colband-size:0; mso-style-noshow:yes; mso-
> >style-priority:99; mso-style-qformat:yes; mso-style-parent:""; mso-
> >padding-alt:0in 5.4pt 0in 5.4pt; mso-para-margin-top:0in; mso-para-
> >margin-right:0in; mso-para-margin-bottom:10.0pt; mso-para-margin-left:
> >0in; line-height:115%; mso-pagination:widow-orphan; font-size:11.0pt;
> >font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"; mso-ascii-font-family:Calibri; mso-
> >ascii-theme-font:minor-latin; mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New
> >Roman"; mso-fareast-theme-font:minor-fareast; mso-hansi-font-
> >family:Calibri; mso-hansi-theme-font:minor-latin;}
>
> >The fonts and all that are different for each post; the only
> >consistency seems to be that it starts with "Normal 0 false false
> >false", and it ends with a "}".
>
> >Would something as simple as this be enough to consistently remove it?
>
> >$comment =3D~ s/Normal 0 false false false.*?}//gsi;
>
> >Or is there more to it than I'm thinking?
>
> $comment =3D~ s/Normal 0 false false false[^{]+\{[^}]+\}//;
Thanks, s.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 09 Mar 2010 11:34:30 -0800
From: Jürgen Exner <jurgenex@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Simple regex question
Message-Id: <9f8dp5treusvaio6qctlft8tnf94de01hn@4ax.com>
Jürgen Exner <jurgenex@hotmail.com> wrote:
>Don Pich <dpich@polartel.com> wrote:
[...]
>>follow the subnet rules (i.e., the network address of a /30 would have
>>the fourth octet as 0, 4, 8, 12, 16 etc. The network address of a /29
>>would have the fourth octet as 0, 8, 16, 24, 32).
>
>If I were you I wouldn't. Instead I would use
>http://search.cpan.org/~kraih/Net-Subnets-1.01/lib/Net/Subnets.pm or one
>of its brethrens.
Forgot to mention: And if for whatever reason I were to handroll my own
code instead of using a ready-made module then I would use the bitwise
boolean operators instead of fumbling around with divisions.
jue
------------------------------
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Subject: Digest Administrivia (Last modified: 6 Apr 01)
Message-Id: <null>
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------------------------------
End of Perl-Users Digest V11 Issue 2861
***************************************
