[31208] in Perl-Users-Digest
Perl-Users Digest, Issue: 2453 Volume: 11
daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (Perl-Users Digest)
Tue Jun 2 00:09:46 2009
Date: Mon, 1 Jun 2009 21:09:10 -0700 (PDT)
From: Perl-Users Digest <Perl-Users-Request@ruby.OCE.ORST.EDU>
To: Perl-Users@ruby.OCE.ORST.EDU (Perl-Users Digest)
Perl-Users Digest Mon, 1 Jun 2009 Volume: 11 Number: 2453
Today's topics:
Re: m// <someone@somewhere.nb.ca>
Re: m// <ben@morrow.me.uk>
Re: m// <uri@StemSystems.com>
Re: Posting Guidelines for comp.lang.perl.misc ($Revisi <someone@somewhere.nb.ca>
Re: Posting Guidelines for comp.lang.perl.misc ($Revisi <uri@StemSystems.com>
Re: Posting Guidelines for comp.lang.perl.misc ($Revisi <tadmc@seesig.invalid>
Sciene Module <edgrsprj@ix.netcom.com>
Re: Sciene Module <kkeller-usenet@wombat.san-francisco.ca.us>
Success <edgrsprj@ix.netcom.com>
Re: Success <ben@morrow.me.uk>
Digest Administrivia (Last modified: 6 Apr 01) (Perl-Users-Digest Admin)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Mon, 1 Jun 2009 22:23:03 -0300
From: "Guy" <someone@somewhere.nb.ca>
Subject: Re: m//
Message-Id: <4a247ef5$0$23778$9a566e8b@news.aliant.net>
"Ben Morrow" <ben@morrow.me.uk> a écrit dans le message de news:
e0paf6-4p5.ln1@osiris.mauzo.dyndns.org...
>
> Quoth "Guy" <someone@somewhere.nb.ca>:
>> A user submits a few keywords to search, for example "red barn". I push
>> these words in the array @words.
>>
>> I then want to search through each record of my text database to see if
>> any
>> of those keywords (up to four keywords) appear in the description of the
>> photos.
>>
>> I would suspect there is a better way. Would there be a simple way to
>> check
>> all submitted keywords, assuming the user could only submit a 50
>> character
>> string?
>>
>> I suppose too that PDS may not be very descriptive for a hash.
>
> The question you should ask is: in the context of this program, is it
> clear what the key is being used for? Without seeing the rest of the
> program or knowing what 'PDS' stands for I can't give an opinion on that
> :).
>
>> Do I need quotes around PDS?
>
> No. You can omit the quotes (inside the {} of a hash element, or to the
> left of the => operator) on any word consisting only of the characters
>
> a-z A-Z 0-9 _
>
> i.e. any word that matches /^\w+$/.
>
>> Note too that this is an array of hashes since $j is sequential between 0
>> and n-1.
>>
>> if ( $info[$j]{'PDS'} =~ /$words[0]|$words[1]|$words[2]|$words[3]/ )
>
> You are matching literal strings, so you need to use \Q in case they
> contain regex metacharacters.
>
> I would write this
>
> # before the loop
> my $rx = map qr/$_/, join "|", map "\\Q$_\\E", @words;
>
> # inside the loop
> if ($info[$j]{PDS} =~ $rx) {
> ...
> }
>
> but you need to make sure you understand how that works before blindly
> copying it.
>
> In general, looping over array indices is bad style in Perl. If you have
> a loop that looks like this
>
> for (my $j = 0; $j < @info; $j++) {
> if ($info[$j]{PDS} =~ $rx) {
> ...
> }
> }
>
> it would be better written as
>
> for (@info) {
> if ($_->{PDS} =~ /$rx/) {
> ...
> }
> }
>
> Ben
Thanks Ben.
In your code, the for (used as a foreach) definitely looks (and reads) much
better than the for-loop that I had in my code. It may be a dead giveaway
that I used to write in Basic.
I've tried to figure out your line of code:
my $rx = map qr/$_/, join "|", map "\\Q$_\\E", @words;
I'm guessing that it first uses map to disable pattern metacharacters in
every $_ of @words. This is done by:
map "\\Q$_\\E", @words
I'm trying to unserstand why you have \\Q and \\E, I thought it would be
something like:
map "/\Q$_\E/", @words
It then uses this result in the next map, which for each $_, disables
pattern metacharacters with qr// and join them all with a "|".
map qr/$_/, join "|"
Finally, it store the reference of the resulting pattern into a scalar for
later use.
In the end, if looks like you transformed a string of keywords like this:
"one two three four"
into this:
"one|two|three|four"
And disabling pattern metacharacters in the process.
Am I way out in left field?
Guy
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 2 Jun 2009 03:50:11 +0100
From: Ben Morrow <ben@morrow.me.uk>
Subject: Re: m//
Message-Id: <3kgef6-0gn.ln1@osiris.mauzo.dyndns.org>
[reordered slightly for clarity]
Quoth "Guy" <someone@somewhere.nb.ca>:
> "Ben Morrow" <ben@morrow.me.uk> a écrit dans le message de news:
> e0paf6-4p5.ln1@osiris.mauzo.dyndns.org...
> >
> > In general, looping over array indices is bad style in Perl. If you have
> > a loop that looks like this
> >
> > for (my $j = 0; $j < @info; $j++) {
> > if ($info[$j]{PDS} =~ $rx) {
> > ...
> > }
> > }
> >
> > it would be better written as
> >
> > for (@info) {
> > if ($_->{PDS} =~ /$rx/) {
> > ...
> > }
> > }
>
> In your code, the for (used as a foreach) definitely looks (and reads) much
> better than the for-loop that I had in my code. It may be a dead giveaway
> that I used to write in Basic.
Me too :). Learning good style in a ny language is an incremental
process. It's made somewhat harder for Perl by the enormous amount of
*really* ugly code out there.
> > I would write this
> >
> > # before the loop
> > my $rx = map qr/$_/, join "|", map "\\Q$_\\E", @words;
> >
> > # inside the loop
> > if ($info[$j]{PDS} =~ $rx) {
> > ...
> > }
> >
> > but you need to make sure you understand how that works before blindly
> > copying it.
>
> I've tried to figure out your line of code:
> my $rx = map qr/$_/, join "|", map "\\Q$_\\E", @words;
>
> I'm guessing that it first uses map to disable pattern metacharacters in
> every $_ of @words. This is done by:
> map "\\Q$_\\E", @words
Yup.
> I'm trying to unserstand why you have \\Q and \\E, I thought it would be
> something like:
> map "/\Q$_\E/", @words
The double-backslashes are because the double-quotes will remove one
level of escaping:
~% perl -le'print "\\Qfoo\\E"'
\Qfoo\E
If I'd used single-quotes they wouldn't need doubling, but then the
variable wouldn't be interpolated either. It could also be written
map '\Q' . $_ . '\E', @words
but that's awfully long and clunky.
> It then uses this result in the next map, which for each $_, disables
> pattern metacharacters with qr// and join them all with a "|".
> map qr/$_/, join "|"
The join happens before the 'map qr//'. After the join you have a string
containing the pattern to match:
~% perl -le'print join "|", map "\\Q$_\\E", "foo", "bar"'
\Qfoo\E|\Qbar\E
The qr// then converts this string into a compiled regular expression:
this has nothing to do with disabling metacharacters. All it does is
make matches against the pattern a little more efficient later.
What's a little confusing here is that the 'map qr//' only maps over one
element: by that point the list has been joined together into a single
string. The only reason for using map is because I like it: it could
just as well have been written
my $rx = join "|", map "\\Q$_\\E", @words;
$rx = qr/$rx/;
> Finally, it store the reference of the resulting pattern into a scalar for
> later use.
Yup.
> In the end, if looks like you transformed a string of keywords like this:
> "one two three four"
> into this:
> "one|two|three|four"
> And disabling pattern metacharacters in the process.
More precisely, into
qr/\Qone\E|\Qtwo\E|\Qthree\E|\Qfour\E/
> Am I way out in left field?
If you print the pattern at the end you can see what you get out. qr//
surrounds its pattern with (?-xism:...) so that it can be interpolated
into another regex without problems, but that doesn't affect what it
matches.
Ben
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 01 Jun 2009 23:34:17 -0400
From: "Uri Guttman" <uri@StemSystems.com>
Subject: Re: m//
Message-Id: <87oct75mx2.fsf@quad.sysarch.com>
>>>>> "BM" == Ben Morrow <ben@morrow.me.uk> writes:
>> > I would write this
>> > # before the loop
>> > my $rx = map qr/$_/, join "|", map "\\Q$_\\E", @words;
>> >
>>
>> I'm guessing that it first uses map to disable pattern metacharacters in
>> every $_ of @words. This is done by:
>> map "\\Q$_\\E", @words
BM> Yup.
>> I'm trying to unserstand why you have \\Q and \\E, I thought it would be
>> something like:
>> map "/\Q$_\E/", @words
BM> The double-backslashes are because the double-quotes will remove one
BM> level of escaping:
BM> ~% perl -le'print "\\Qfoo\\E"'
BM> \Qfoo\E
maybe using quotemeta would make that cleaner and remove the need for
the extra escaping.
map quotemeta, @words
that should work just as your code but much cleaner.
BM> What's a little confusing here is that the 'map qr//' only maps over one
BM> element: by that point the list has been joined together into a single
BM> string. The only reason for using map is because I like it: it could
BM> just as well have been written
BM> my $rx = join "|", map "\\Q$_\\E", @words;
BM> $rx = qr/$rx/;
that is a useful use of a single argument list to map.
uri
--
Uri Guttman ------ uri@stemsystems.com -------- http://www.sysarch.com --
----- Perl Code Review , Architecture, Development, Training, Support ------
--------- Free Perl Training --- http://perlhunter.com/college.html ---------
--------- Gourmet Hot Cocoa Mix ---- http://bestfriendscocoa.com ---------
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 1 Jun 2009 22:29:52 -0300
From: "Guy" <someone@somewhere.nb.ca>
Subject: Re: Posting Guidelines for comp.lang.perl.misc ($Revision: 1.9 $)
Message-Id: <4a24808e$0$23764$9a566e8b@news.aliant.net>
Sorry, I know now I've been abusing, thanks for the info.
Guy
<tadmc@seesig.invalid> a écrit dans le message de news:
nCMSl.8134$Lr6.8124@flpi143.ffdc.sbc.com...
> Outline
> Before posting to comp.lang.perl.misc
> Must
> - Check the Perl Frequently Asked Questions (FAQ)
> - Check the other standard Perl docs (*.pod)
> Really Really Should
> - Lurk for a while before posting
> - Search a Usenet archive
> If You Like
> - Check Other Resources
> Posting to comp.lang.perl.misc
> Is there a better place to ask your question?
> - Question should be about Perl, not about the application area
> How to participate (post) in the clpmisc community
> - Carefully choose the contents of your Subject header
> - Use an effective followup style
> - Speak Perl rather than English, when possible
> - Ask perl to help you
> - Do not re-type Perl code
> - Provide enough information
> - Do not provide too much information
> - Do not post binaries, HTML, or MIME
> Social faux pas to avoid
> - Asking a Frequently Asked Question
> - Asking a question easily answered by a cursory doc search
> - Asking for emailed answers
> - Beware of saying "doesn't work"
> - Sending a "stealth" Cc copy
> Be extra cautious when you get upset
> - Count to ten before composing a followup when you are upset
> - Count to ten after composing and before posting when you are upset
> -----------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Posting Guidelines for comp.lang.perl.misc ($Revision: 1.9 $)
> This newsgroup, commonly called clpmisc, is a technical newsgroup
> intended to be used for discussion of Perl related issues (except job
> postings), whether it be comments or questions.
>
> As you would expect, clpmisc discussions are usually very technical in
> nature and there are conventions for conduct in technical newsgroups
> going somewhat beyond those in non-technical newsgroups.
>
> The article at:
>
> http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html
>
> describes how to get answers from technical people in general.
>
> This article describes things that you should, and should not, do to
> increase your chances of getting an answer to your Perl question. It is
> available in POD, HTML and plain text formats at:
>
> http://www.rehabitation.com/clpmisc.shtml
>
> For more information about netiquette in general, see the "Netiquette
> Guidelines" at:
>
> http://andrew2.andrew.cmu.edu/rfc/rfc1855.html
>
> A note to newsgroup "regulars":
>
> Do not use these guidelines as a "license to flame" or other
> meanness. It is possible that a poster is unaware of things
> discussed here. Give them the benefit of the doubt, and just
> help them learn how to post, rather than assume that they do
> know and are being the "bad kind" of Lazy.
>
> A note about technical terms used here:
>
> In this document, we use words like "must" and "should" as
> they're used in technical conversation (such as you will
> encounter in this newsgroup). When we say that you *must* do
> something, we mean that if you don't do that something, then
> it's unlikely that you will benefit much from this group.
> We're not bossing you around; we're making the point without
> lots of words.
>
> Do *NOT* send email to the maintainer of these guidelines. It will be
> discarded unread. The guidelines belong to the newsgroup so all
> discussion should appear in the newsgroup. I am just the secretary that
> writes down the consensus of the group.
>
> Before posting to comp.lang.perl.misc
> Must
> This section describes things that you *must* do before posting to
> clpmisc, in order to maximize your chances of getting meaningful
> replies
> to your inquiry and to avoid getting flamed for being lazy and trying
> to
> have others do your work.
>
> The perl distribution includes documentation that is copied to your
> hard
> drive when you install perl. Also installed is a program for looking
> things up in that (and other) documentation named 'perldoc'.
>
> You should either find out where the docs got installed on your system,
> or use perldoc to find them for you. Type "perldoc perldoc" to learn
> how
> to use perldoc itself. Type "perldoc perl" to start reading Perl's
> standard documentation.
>
> Check the Perl Frequently Asked Questions (FAQ)
> Checking the FAQ before posting is required in Big 8 newsgroups in
> general, there is nothing clpmisc-specific about this requirement.
> You are expected to do this in nearly all newsgroups.
>
> You can use the "-q" switch with perldoc to do a word search of the
> questions in the Perl FAQs.
>
> Check the other standard Perl docs (*.pod)
> The perl distribution comes with much more documentation than is
> available for most other newsgroups, so in clpmisc you should also
> see if you can find an answer in the other (non-FAQ) standard docs
> before posting.
>
> It is *not* required, or even expected, that you actually *read* all of
> Perl's standard docs, only that you spend a few minutes searching them
> before posting.
>
> Try doing a word-search in the standard docs for some words/phrases
> taken from your problem statement or from your very carefully worded
> "Subject:" header.
>
> Really Really Should
> This section describes things that you *really should* do before
> posting
> to clpmisc.
>
> Lurk for a while before posting
> This is very important and expected in all newsgroups. Lurking
> means
> to monitor a newsgroup for a period to become familiar with local
> customs. Each newsgroup has specific customs and rituals. Knowing
> these before you participate will help avoid embarrassing social
> situations. Consider yourself to be a foreigner at first!
>
> Search a Usenet archive
> There are tens of thousands of Perl programmers. It is very likely
> that your question has already been asked (and answered). See if
> you
> can find where it has already been answered.
>
> One such searchable archive is:
>
> http://groups.google.com/advanced_search
>
> If You Like
> This section describes things that you *can* do before posting to
> clpmisc.
>
> Check Other Resources
> You may want to check in books or on web sites to see if you can
> find the answer to your question.
>
> But you need to consider the source of such information: there are
> a
> lot of very poor Perl books and web sites, and several good ones
> too, of course.
>
> Posting to comp.lang.perl.misc
> There can be 200 messages in clpmisc in a single day. Nobody is going
> to
> read every article. They must decide somehow which articles they are
> going to read, and which they will skip.
>
> Your post is in competition with 199 other posts. You need to "win"
> before a person who can help you will even read your question.
>
> These sections describe how you can help keep your article from being
> one of the "skipped" ones.
>
> Is there a better place to ask your question?
> Question should be about Perl, not about the application area
> It can be difficult to separate out where your problem really is,
> but you should make a conscious effort to post to the most
> applicable newsgroup. That is, after all, where you are the most
> likely to find the people who know how to answer your question.
>
> Being able to "partition" a problem is an essential skill for
> effectively troubleshooting programming problems. If you don't get
> that right, you end up looking for answers in the wrong places.
>
> It should be understood that you may not know that the root of your
> problem is not Perl-related (the two most frequent ones are CGI and
> Operating System related), so off-topic postings will happen from
> time to time. Be gracious when someone helps you find a better
> place
> to ask your question by pointing you to a more applicable
> newsgroup.
>
> How to participate (post) in the clpmisc community
> Carefully choose the contents of your Subject header
> You have 40 precious characters of Subject to win out and be one of
> the posts that gets read. Don't waste them. Take care while
> composing them, they are the key that opens the door to getting an
> answer.
>
> Spend them indicating what aspect of Perl others will find if they
> should decide to read your article.
>
> Do not spend them indicating "experience level" (guru, newbie...).
>
> Do not spend them pleading (please read, urgent, help!...).
>
> Do not spend them on non-Subjects (Perl question, one-word
> Subject...)
>
> For more information on choosing a Subject see "Choosing Good
> Subject Lines":
>
> http://www.cpan.org/authors/id/D/DM/DMR/subjects.post
>
> Part of the beauty of newsgroup dynamics, is that you can
> contribute
> to the community with your very first post! If your choice of
> Subject leads a fellow Perler to find the thread you are starting,
> then even asking a question helps us all.
>
> Use an effective followup style
> When composing a followup, quote only enough text to establish the
> context for the comments that you will add. Always indicate who
> wrote the quoted material. Never quote an entire article. Never
> quote a .signature (unless that is what you are commenting on).
>
> Intersperse your comments *following* each section of quoted text
> to
> which they relate. Unappreciated followup styles are referred to as
> "top-posting", "Jeopardy" (because the answer comes before the
> question), or "TOFU" (Text Over, Fullquote Under).
>
> Reversing the chronology of the dialog makes it much harder to
> understand (some folks won't even read it if written in that
> style).
> For more information on quoting style, see:
>
> http://web.presby.edu/~nnqadmin/nnq/nquote.html
>
> Speak Perl rather than English, when possible
> Perl is much more precise than natural language. Saying it in Perl
> instead will avoid misunderstanding your question or problem.
>
> Do not say: I have variable with "foo\tbar" in it.
>
> Instead say: I have $var = "foo\tbar", or I have $var = 'foo\tbar',
> or I have $var = <DATA> (and show the data line).
>
> Ask perl to help you
> You can ask perl itself to help you find common programming
> mistakes
> by doing two things: enable warnings (perldoc warnings) and enable
> "strict"ures (perldoc strict).
>
> You should not bother the hundreds/thousands of readers of the
> newsgroup without first seeing if a machine can help you find your
> problem. It is demeaning to be asked to do the work of a machine.
> It
> will annoy the readers of your article.
>
> You can look up any of the messages that perl might issue to find
> out what the message means and how to resolve the potential mistake
> (perldoc perldiag). If you would like perl to look them up for you,
> you can put "use diagnostics;" near the top of your program.
>
> Do not re-type Perl code
> Use copy/paste or your editor's "import" function rather than
> attempting to type in your code. If you make a typo you will get
> followups about your typos instead of about the question you are
> trying to get answered.
>
> Provide enough information
> If you do the things in this item, you will have an Extremely Good
> chance of getting people to try and help you with your problem!
> These features are a really big bonus toward your question winning
> out over all of the other posts that you are competing with.
>
> First make a short (less than 20-30 lines) and *complete* program
> that illustrates the problem you are having. People should be able
> to run your program by copy/pasting the code from your article.
> (You
> will find that doing this step very often reveals your problem
> directly. Leading to an answer much more quickly and reliably than
> posting to Usenet.)
>
> Describe *precisely* the input to your program. Also provide
> example
> input data for your program. If you need to show file input, use
> the
> __DATA__ token (perldata.pod) to provide the file contents inside
> of
> your Perl program.
>
> Show the output (including the verbatim text of any messages) of
> your program.
>
> Describe how you want the output to be different from what you are
> getting.
>
> If you have no idea at all of how to code up your situation, be
> sure
> to at least describe the 2 things that you *do* know: input and
> desired output.
>
> Do not provide too much information
> Do not just post your entire program for debugging. Most especially
> do not post someone *else's* entire program.
>
> Do not post binaries, HTML, or MIME
> clpmisc is a text only newsgroup. If you have images or binaries
> that explain your question, put them in a publically accessible
> place (like a Web server) and provide a pointer to that location.
> If
> you include code, cut and paste it directly in the message body.
> Don't attach anything to the message. Don't post vcards or HTML.
> Many people (and even some Usenet servers) will automatically
> filter
> out such messages. Many people will not be able to easily read your
> post. Plain text is something everyone can read.
>
> Social faux pas to avoid
> The first two below are symptoms of lots of FAQ asking here in clpmisc.
> It happens so often that folks will assume that it is happening yet
> again. If you have looked but not found, or found but didn't understand
> the docs, say so in your article.
>
> Asking a Frequently Asked Question
> It should be understood that you may have missed the applicable FAQ
> when you checked, which is not a big deal. But if the Frequently
> Asked Question is worded similar to your question, folks will
> assume
> that you did not look at all. Don't become indignant at pointers to
> the FAQ, particularly if it solves your problem.
>
> Asking a question easily answered by a cursory doc search
> If folks think you have not even tried the obvious step of reading
> the docs applicable to your problem, they are likely to become
> annoyed.
>
> If you are flamed for not checking when you *did* check, then just
> shrug it off (and take the answer that you got).
>
> Asking for emailed answers
> Emailed answers benefit one person. Posted answers benefit the
> entire community. If folks can take the time to answer your
> question, then you can take the time to go get the answer in the
> same place where you asked the question.
>
> It is OK to ask for a *copy* of the answer to be emailed, but many
> will ignore such requests anyway. If you munge your address, you
> should never expect (or ask) to get email in response to a Usenet
> post.
>
> Ask the question here, get the answer here (maybe).
>
> Beware of saying "doesn't work"
> This is a "red flag" phrase. If you find yourself writing that,
> pause and see if you can't describe what is not working without
> saying "doesn't work". That is, describe how it is not what you
> want.
>
> Sending a "stealth" Cc copy
> A "stealth Cc" is when you both email and post a reply without
> indicating *in the body* that you are doing so.
>
> Be extra cautious when you get upset
> Count to ten before composing a followup when you are upset
> This is recommended in all Usenet newsgroups. Here in clpmisc, most
> flaming sub-threads are not about any feature of Perl at all! They
> are most often for what was seen as a breach of netiquette. If you
> have lurked for a bit, then you will know what is expected and
> won't
> make such posts in the first place.
>
> But if you get upset, wait a while before writing your followup. I
> recommend waiting at least 30 minutes.
>
> Count to ten after composing and before posting when you are upset
> After you have written your followup, wait *another* 30 minutes
> before committing yourself by posting it. You cannot take it back
> once it has been said.
>
> AUTHOR
> Tad McClellan and many others on the comp.lang.perl.misc newsgroup.
>
> --
> Tad McClellan
> email: perl -le "print scalar reverse qq/moc.noitatibaher\100cmdat/"
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 01 Jun 2009 22:09:15 -0400
From: "Uri Guttman" <uri@StemSystems.com>
Subject: Re: Posting Guidelines for comp.lang.perl.misc ($Revision: 1.9 $)
Message-Id: <87zlcr5qus.fsf@quad.sysarch.com>
>>>>> "G" == Guy <someone@somewhere.nb.ca> writes:
G> Sorry, I know now I've been abusing, thanks for the info.
part of the abuse is top posting and not editing quoted emails. did you
have to leave the ENTIRE guideline in your post? we see it regularly so
we don't need to see extraneous copies in posts. learn how to bottom
post and edit out all extra quoted stuff.
look at it this way. you posted 1 line. you quoted almost 400
lines. think about the signal to noise ratio there.
uri
--
Uri Guttman ------ uri@stemsystems.com -------- http://www.sysarch.com --
----- Perl Code Review , Architecture, Development, Training, Support ------
--------- Free Perl Training --- http://perlhunter.com/college.html ---------
--------- Gourmet Hot Cocoa Mix ---- http://bestfriendscocoa.com ---------
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 1 Jun 2009 23:29:46 -0500
From: Tad J McClellan <tadmc@seesig.invalid>
Subject: Re: Posting Guidelines for comp.lang.perl.misc ($Revision: 1.9 $)
Message-Id: <slrnh29alq.n9n.tadmc@tadmc30.sbcglobal.net>
Guy <someone@somewhere.nb.ca> wrote:
> Sorry, I know now I've been abusing, thanks for the info.
>
> Guy
>
><tadmc@seesig.invalid> a écrit dans le message de news:
> nCMSl.8134$Lr6.8124@flpi143.ffdc.sbc.com...
>> - Use an effective followup style
Did you read that part?
Top posting 350 lines to add a single line of new text is abusing us.
Please stop.
Really stop.
--
Tad McClellan
email: perl -le "print scalar reverse qq/moc.noitatibaher\100cmdat/"
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 1 Jun 2009 20:26:38 -0500
From: "E.D.G." <edgrsprj@ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Sciene Module
Message-Id: <D5qdnSMUNY5Q4rnXnZ2dnUVZ_v2dnZ2d@earthlink.com>
Just for general interest,
One of the projects that I am working on involves making recommendations to
science researchers regarding a good programming language for relatively
simple projects. That could be especially important for science students
around the world who do not have unlimited amounts of time to learn a
complex computer language or hundreds of dollars to purchase one.
Another researcher and I evaluated a number of programming languages
including Fortran and Basic programs. And when the evaluation process was
finished I made the decision that the ActiveState version of Perl was
probably our best choice. Quite a few evaluation criteria were involved.
So far, we have not looked into Perl's graphics capabilities. But I know
that it can be used quite effectively with the Gnuplot graphics program.
And both will apparently run on different types of computers with various
operating systems.
The main problem that the people that I am working with have had with Perl
is with the documentation. In my opinion it assumes that you have a certain
level of programming experience to start with. Just determining how to
download the program and start using the ppm feature to load various modules
is difficult if there is no one around to explain what steps need to be
taken. I don't know if the latest Perl download lets people create exe
versions of the program. But I do know that it took me about two years of
trying different things before I was finally able to determine what modules
had to be linked with the program and what type of commands to give the
computer in order to create them. Once you know how to do all of that they
are easy to create.
It is my opinion that if you can get past those types of problems, Perl is a
powerful, versatile, and easy programming language to work with. And future
efforts might involve attempting to get a "science" module developed that
would contain all of the features that science researchers need such as trig
functions, automatic pipe creation routines, graphics, exe program
generation code, and most important of all, more easily understood
documentation. Science researchers generally need to use only a limited
number of commands. And if they are explained in simple terms then with
very little effort people can start creating programs.
I would imagine that the ActiveState people would like to sell more of their
specialty software such as the program development kits. And if more
science researchers and others are using Perl then I would expect that they
should be able to do that.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 1 Jun 2009 20:45:50 -0700
From: Keith Keller <kkeller-usenet@wombat.san-francisco.ca.us>
Subject: Re: Sciene Module
Message-Id: <fsjef6x593.ln2@goaway.wombat.san-francisco.ca.us>
On 2009-06-02, E.D.G. <edgrsprj@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
>
> And future
> efforts might involve attempting to get a "science" module developed that
> would contain all of the features that science researchers need such as trig
> functions, automatic pipe creation routines, graphics, exe program
> generation code, and most important of all, more easily understood
> documentation.
The science researchers I have worked with have easily understood most
of the Perl documentation. And these people are not necessarily skilled
programmers.
> Science researchers generally need to use only a limited
> number of commands.
Which ones? Biology researchers have a huge range of needs. I can't
imagine that other fields are much different.
--keith
--
kkeller-usenet@wombat.san-francisco.ca.us
(try just my userid to email me)
AOLSFAQ=http://www.therockgarden.ca/aolsfaq.txt
see X- headers for PGP signature information
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 1 Jun 2009 19:21:17 -0500
From: "E.D.G." <edgrsprj@ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Success
Message-Id: <MKedneCw3dLn7bnXnZ2dnUVZ_jqdnZ2d@earthlink.com>
Use Term::ReadKey;
ReadMode 4;
$key = ReadKey(-1);
ReadMode 0;
Variations of that code will read most of the keyboard keys and also clear
the keyboard buffer.
However, that code does not appear to be able to read special keys such as
Page Down, the F1 through F12 keys, and the arrow keys with Windows.
Does anyone know if there is some variation of the code that can identify
those keys? If not then IsKeyPressed can still be used to identify them.
That will not be a problem. Being unable to clear letter and number
keyboard presses from the keyboard buffer with IsKeyPressed was a problem.
For some reason, Term::ReadKey does not appear to be in the documentation
index for the Perl version that I have. I had to do a search for it and
then look at the different pages that the search identified.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 2 Jun 2009 03:29:33 +0100
From: Ben Morrow <ben@morrow.me.uk>
Subject: Re: Success
Message-Id: <ddfef6-l7n.ln1@osiris.mauzo.dyndns.org>
Quoth "E.D.G." <edgrsprj@ix.netcom.com>:
> Use Term::ReadKey;
> ReadMode 4;
> $key = ReadKey(-1);
> ReadMode 0;
>
> Variations of that code will read most of the keyboard keys and also clear
> the keyboard buffer.
>
> However, that code does not appear to be able to read special keys such as
> Page Down, the F1 through F12 keys, and the arrow keys with Windows.
As I said before, you can do this with Win32::Console.
> Does anyone know if there is some variation of the code that can identify
> those keys? If not then IsKeyPressed can still be used to identify them.
> That will not be a problem. Being unable to clear letter and number
> keyboard presses from the keyboard buffer with IsKeyPressed was a problem.
Win32::GuiTest is *not* a good module to use here. It's far too
low-level for general-purpose input: for one thing, it reads keys that
are destined for other applications, which is hardly a reasonable thing
to do.
> For some reason, Term::ReadKey does not appear to be in the documentation
> index for the Perl version that I have. I had to do a search for it and
> then look at the different pages that the search identified.
WHat 'documentation index'? Perl doesn't normally have one. Do you mean
the ActiveState-provided HTML documentation? I believe you can
regenerate the TOC using the ActivePerl::DocTools module, but I don't
have an AS Perl to hand.
Ben
------------------------------
Date: 6 Apr 2001 21:33:47 GMT (Last modified)
From: Perl-Users-Request@ruby.oce.orst.edu (Perl-Users-Digest Admin)
Subject: Digest Administrivia (Last modified: 6 Apr 01)
Message-Id: <null>
Administrivia:
#The Perl-Users Digest is a retransmission of the USENET newsgroup
#comp.lang.perl.misc. For subscription or unsubscription requests, send
#the single line:
#
# subscribe perl-users
#or:
# unsubscribe perl-users
#
#to almanac@ruby.oce.orst.edu.
NOTE: due to the current flood of worm email banging on ruby, the smtp
server on ruby has been shut off until further notice.
To submit articles to comp.lang.perl.announce, send your article to
clpa@perl.com.
#To request back copies (available for a week or so), send your request
#to almanac@ruby.oce.orst.edu with the command "send perl-users x.y",
#where x is the volume number and y is the issue number.
#For other requests pertaining to the digest, send mail to
#perl-users-request@ruby.oce.orst.edu. Do not waste your time or mine
#sending perl questions to the -request address, I don't have time to
#answer them even if I did know the answer.
------------------------------
End of Perl-Users Digest V11 Issue 2453
***************************************
