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Perl-Users Digest, Issue: 2419 Volume: 11

daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (Perl-Users Digest)
Fri May 15 09:09:46 2009

Date: Fri, 15 May 2009 06:09:09 -0700 (PDT)
From: Perl-Users Digest <Perl-Users-Request@ruby.OCE.ORST.EDU>
To: Perl-Users@ruby.OCE.ORST.EDU (Perl-Users Digest)

Perl-Users Digest           Fri, 15 May 2009     Volume: 11 Number: 2419

Today's topics:
    Re: comma operator <frank@example.invalid>
    Re: comma operator <RedGrittyBrick@spamweary.invalid>
    Re: comma operator <uri@PerlOnCall.com>
        Define alarm in threads <scottalorda@libello.com>
    Re: IO::Socket::INET on OSX or TCP stack problem <stuart@otenet.gr>
    Re: IO::Socket::INET on OSX or TCP stack problem <stuart@otenet.gr>
    Re: IO::Socket::INET on OSX or TCP stack problem <uri@PerlOnCall.com>
        Posting Guidelines for comp.lang.perl.misc ($Revision:  tadmc@seesig.invalid
        problems with writing to an output file <ameya.r.sathe@gmail.com>
    Re: problems with writing to an output file <smallpond@juno.com>
        Digest Administrivia (Last modified: 6 Apr 01) (Perl-Users-Digest Admin)

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Fri, 15 May 2009 01:46:19 -0700
From: Franken Sense <frank@example.invalid>
Subject: Re: comma operator
Message-Id: <1vebr763b8r2h.wpqsywfdss3k$.dlg@40tude.net>

In Dread Ink, the Grave Hand of Tad J McClellan Did Inscribe:

> Franken Sense <frank@example.invalid> wrote:
>>   
>> I'm reading up on perl today and find this in perldoc perlop:
>>
>> Comma Operator
>>   
>>     Binary "," is the comma operator. In scalar context it evaluates its
>>     left argument, throws that value away, then evaluates its right
>> argument
>>     and returns that value. This is just like C's comma operator.
>>
>> // end excerpt
>>
>> What is C's comma operator?
> 
> 
> It is an operator that evaluates its left argument, throws that value 
> away, then evaluates its right argument and returns that value.
> 
> It is just like Perl's comma operator.

This is a footnote from n1336.pdf:

100) A comma operator does not yield an lvalue.

Is this also true in perl?
-- 
Frank

I think if you're going to do a movie about Reagan you do it about the fact
that he created the huge deficit, that he armed the mujahadeen, that he
armed Saddam, that he armed Iran, he armed 2/3s of the Axis of Evil, he
funded terrorists in Central America, he was in my mind a terrible
president.
~~ Al Franken, Book TV, on CBS's Reagan movie


------------------------------

Date: Fri, 15 May 2009 10:31:30 +0100
From: RedGrittyBrick <RedGrittyBrick@spamweary.invalid>
Subject: Re: comma operator
Message-Id: <4a0d3672$0$26990$db0fefd9@news.zen.co.uk>


Franken Sense wrote:
> In Dread Ink, the Grave Hand of Tad J McClellan Did Inscribe:
> 
>> Franken Sense <frank@example.invalid> wrote:
>>>   
>>> I'm reading up on perl today and find this in perldoc perlop:
>>>
>>> Comma Operator
>>>   
>>>     Binary "," is the comma operator. In scalar context it evaluates its
>>>     left argument, throws that value away, then evaluates its right
>>> argument
>>>     and returns that value. This is just like C's comma operator.
>>>
>>> // end excerpt
>>>
>>> What is C's comma operator?
>>
>> It is an operator that evaluates its left argument, throws that value 
>> away, then evaluates its right argument and returns that value.
>>
>> It is just like Perl's comma operator.
> 
> This is a footnote from n1336.pdf:
> 
> 100) A comma operator does not yield an lvalue.
> 
> Is this also true in perl?

C> perl -e "$x,$y = 42; print qq(x=$x, y=$y)"
x=, y=42

-- 
RGB


------------------------------

Date: Fri, 15 May 2009 08:36:20 -0400
From: "Uri Guttman" <uri@PerlOnCall.com>
Subject: Re: comma operator
Message-Id: <87skj61r23.fsf@quad.sysarch.com>

>>>>> "R" == RedGrittyBrick  <RedGrittyBrick@spamweary.invalid> writes:

  R> Franken Sense wrote:
  >> 
  >> 100) A comma operator does not yield an lvalue.
  >> 
  >> Is this also true in perl?

  C> perl -e "$x,$y = 42; print qq(x=$x, y=$y)"
  R> x=, y=42

there is no lvalue in that first statement. comma binds lower than = so
that was $x followed by $y = 42 which works. the problem is finding a
way to have a comma operator which binds tighter than =. using parens
won't work since that makes a list and it isn't a comma op anymore but a
list element separator.

and finally WTF is franken sense asking dumb sidebar questions and
getting answers. he needs to focus on learning perl and not obscure side
issues like comma ops and lvalues (i bet he doesn't even know what the term
lvalue means)

uri

-- 
Uri Guttman  ------  uri@stemsystems.com  --------  http://www.sysarch.com --
-----  Perl Code Review , Architecture, Development, Training, Support ------
--------- Free Perl Training --- http://perlhunter.com/college.html ---------
---------  Gourmet Hot Cocoa Mix  ----  http://bestfriendscocoa.com ---------


------------------------------

Date: Fri, 15 May 2009 03:57:27 -0700 (PDT)
From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?S=E9bastien_Cottalorda?= <scottalorda@libello.com>
Subject: Define alarm in threads
Message-Id: <b35b16af-c8bf-4114-9e31-e2f2cfba6cd4@r34g2000vbi.googlegroups.com>

I need to define an alarm like this.

eval {
    my $thr = threads->new(\&run_cmd, params);
};
if ($@){
    print "$@\n";
}
blah blah blah


sub run_cmd {
   blah blah blah
   threads->detach();
   eval {
        local $SIG{ALRM} = sub { die "TIMEOUT\n" };
        alarm 10;
        `$command_to_execute`;
        alarm 0;
   };
   if ($@){
       print "$@\n";
   }
}

My problem is the following :
after waiting 10 seconds, either the master or the thread die.

How can I timeout the thread without affecting the master ?

Thanks in advance for any kind of help.

Sebastien


------------------------------

Date: Fri, 15 May 2009 11:43:00 +0300
From: Stuart Gall <stuart@otenet.gr>
Subject: Re: IO::Socket::INET on OSX or TCP stack problem
Message-Id: <guj9uk$vop$1@mouse.otenet.gr>

On 2009-05-10 19:29:47 +0300, Uri Guttman <uri@stemsystems.com> said:

> 
> it sounds like maybe your osx stack is crapola. but that isn't a perl
> problem and i am sure many mac coders have written perl socket code for it.

That is what I am worried about. But if this problem was generic i.e. 
any bad tcp packet results in the system getting hung in a retry loop 
OSX would be very broken.

So it must be either a perl/osx thing or there must be something odd 
about the TCP packets coming from these modbus devices which is 
upsetting OSX.

> 
>   SG> Actually I am not realy sure that this is the correct syntax.
>   SG> with perl -w I get
>   SG> Argument "TCP_NODELAY" isn't numeric in setsockopt at
>   SG> /System/Library/Perl/5.8.6/darwin-thread-multi-2level/IO/Socket.pm
>   SG> line 247
> 
> that is another problem. you didn't import the constant so it is being
> passed as just a string. but i doubt you really need this.

It imports as Socket::TCP_NODELAY
and you are right it made no diferance.

> 
>   >>
>   SG> };
>   >>
>   SG> return ($SOCKETS{$IP});
>   >>
>   >> why do you return the socket from the global hash? you have it in $S (or
>   >> in my version $sock).
>   SG> Answered above $SOCKETS is local static.
> 
> that doesn't answer why you return a hash lookup for the boolean
> return. return 1 is simpler, faster and more accurate.


<snip>

> 
>   SG> BEGIN {
> 
> why the begin block? declaring empty vars subs in begin blocks does
> nothing.

It makes them static.
Is there another way to define a static variable ?

> 
>   SG> my %Sockets;
> 
>   SG> 	sub OpenSocket($) {
> 
> why are you using prototypes? they are meant for one thing alone
> (changing how a sub call is parsed). they are not useful for arg
> checking or stuff.

I am using perl -w - I dont usually, but while I am trying to figure 
out why this script does not work I am.
perl -w complains if you don't use prototypes. Or is there some other 
way around that ?
> 




------------------------------

Date: Fri, 15 May 2009 11:54:27 +0300
From: Stuart Gall <stuart@otenet.gr>
Subject: Re: IO::Socket::INET on OSX or TCP stack problem
Message-Id: <gujak3$vvi$1@mouse.otenet.gr>

On 2009-05-11 02:12:46 +0300, derykus@gmail.com said:

> On May 8, 2:05 pm, Stuart Gall <stu...@otenet.gr> wrote:
>> On 2009-05-07 23:03:16 +0300, dery...@gmail.com said:
>> 
>> ...
>>         print $socket $COMMAND;
>>         $socket->read($r,6);    #5th byte is the length byte
>     *****
>> This is one place that it hangs with repeated retries
> 
> Any possibility of a timeout as a workaround:
> 
> eval { local $SIG{ALRM} = sub { die 'socket t/o';
>        alarm(...);
>        $socket->read($r, 6) };
>        alarm(0);
>      };
> if ( $@ =~ m{socket t/o} and not $socket->connected ) {
>    ...  reopen socket etc.
> }

I have sig alarm set anyway to catch the whole read/write loop.

OK Here is the realy odd thing
The first time a socket goes bad the read call will eventually return 0 
bytes. and put the socket at eof.

I am using IO::Select to detect when a socket is READ_READY.
At the point that I call select no socket should be read ready so if it 
is it means that it is at eof.
So this enables me to detect which socket has gone bad.

If I close and reopen that socket, the next socket that I attempt to do 
IO hangs with the same issue, repeated TCP retries then RST. And one by 
one they all fall down.

So my work around is that when I get a socket go eof I close all the 
sockets and reopen them.
This then lets the code work for a few more loops.

Some how what ever is going wrong is corrupting all the sockets.

Incidentally I upgraded to 10.5.7 and amazingly I still have the same problem.

Stuart



------------------------------

Date: Fri, 15 May 2009 08:31:14 -0400
From: "Uri Guttman" <uri@PerlOnCall.com>
Subject: Re: IO::Socket::INET on OSX or TCP stack problem
Message-Id: <87ws8i1ral.fsf@quad.sysarch.com>

>>>>> "SG" == Stuart Gall <stuart@otenet.gr> writes:

  SG> On 2009-05-10 19:29:47 +0300, Uri Guttman <uri@stemsystems.com> said:

  SG> So it must be either a perl/osx thing or there must be something odd
  SG> about the TCP packets coming from these modbus devices which is
  SG> upsetting OSX.

hard to say from here. i highly doubt it is perl. if you want to verify
this do the same thing in c or another language. or google for this
situation and see if others have seen it.

  >> why the begin block? declaring empty vars subs in begin blocks does
  >> nothing.

  SG> It makes them static.
  SG> Is there another way to define a static variable ?

just declaring vars outside a sub makes them static. the issue is more
about scoping than compile vs run time which is what BEGIN controls.

  SG> sub OpenSocket($) {
  >> 
  >> why are you using prototypes? they are meant for one thing alone
  >> (changing how a sub call is parsed). they are not useful for arg
  >> checking or stuff.

  SG> I am using perl -w - I dont usually, but while I am trying to figure
  SG> out why this script does not work I am.
  SG> perl -w complains if you don't use prototypes. Or is there some other
  SG> way around that ?

huh?? perl doesn't complain if you don't use prototypes. it will complain if
you use wrong prototypes. don't put any () after the sub names. read
perldoc perlsub for more.

uri

-- 
Uri Guttman  ------  uri@stemsystems.com  --------  http://www.sysarch.com --
-----  Perl Code Review , Architecture, Development, Training, Support ------
--------- Free Perl Training --- http://perlhunter.com/college.html ---------
---------  Gourmet Hot Cocoa Mix  ----  http://bestfriendscocoa.com ---------


------------------------------

Date: Fri, 15 May 2009 07:10:36 GMT
From: tadmc@seesig.invalid
Subject: Posting Guidelines for comp.lang.perl.misc ($Revision: 1.9 $)
Message-Id: <Mz8Pl.7126$Lr6.1813@flpi143.ffdc.sbc.com>

Outline
   Before posting to comp.lang.perl.misc
      Must
       - Check the Perl Frequently Asked Questions (FAQ)
       - Check the other standard Perl docs (*.pod)
      Really Really Should
       - Lurk for a while before posting
       - Search a Usenet archive
      If You Like
       - Check Other Resources
   Posting to comp.lang.perl.misc
      Is there a better place to ask your question?
       - Question should be about Perl, not about the application area
      How to participate (post) in the clpmisc community
       - Carefully choose the contents of your Subject header
       - Use an effective followup style
       - Speak Perl rather than English, when possible
       - Ask perl to help you
       - Do not re-type Perl code
       - Provide enough information
       - Do not provide too much information
       - Do not post binaries, HTML, or MIME
      Social faux pas to avoid
       - Asking a Frequently Asked Question
       - Asking a question easily answered by a cursory doc search
       - Asking for emailed answers
       - Beware of saying "doesn't work"
       - Sending a "stealth" Cc copy
      Be extra cautious when you get upset
       - Count to ten before composing a followup when you are upset
       - Count to ten after composing and before posting when you are upset
-----------------------------------------------------------------

Posting Guidelines for comp.lang.perl.misc ($Revision: 1.9 $)
    This newsgroup, commonly called clpmisc, is a technical newsgroup
    intended to be used for discussion of Perl related issues (except job
    postings), whether it be comments or questions.

    As you would expect, clpmisc discussions are usually very technical in
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    The article at:

        http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html

    describes how to get answers from technical people in general.

    This article describes things that you should, and should not, do to
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     http://www.rehabitation.com/clpmisc.shtml

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Before posting to comp.lang.perl.misc
  Must
    This section describes things that you *must* do before posting to
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    The perl distribution includes documentation that is copied to your hard
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        Checking the FAQ before posting is required in Big 8 newsgroups in
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        You can use the "-q" switch with perldoc to do a word search of the
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    Check the other standard Perl docs (*.pod)
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    It is *not* required, or even expected, that you actually *read* all of
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    Try doing a word-search in the standard docs for some words/phrases
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  Really Really Should
    This section describes things that you *really should* do before posting
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    Lurk for a while before posting
        This is very important and expected in all newsgroups. Lurking means
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    Search a Usenet archive
        There are tens of thousands of Perl programmers. It is very likely
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        can find where it has already been answered.

        One such searchable archive is:

         http://groups.google.com/advanced_search

  If You Like
    This section describes things that you *can* do before posting to
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    Check Other Resources
        You may want to check in books or on web sites to see if you can
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        But you need to consider the source of such information: there are a
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Posting to comp.lang.perl.misc
    There can be 200 messages in clpmisc in a single day. Nobody is going to
    read every article. They must decide somehow which articles they are
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    Your post is in competition with 199 other posts. You need to "win"
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  Is there a better place to ask your question?
    Question should be about Perl, not about the application area
        It can be difficult to separate out where your problem really is,
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        problem is not Perl-related (the two most frequent ones are CGI and
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  How to participate (post) in the clpmisc community
    Carefully choose the contents of your Subject header
        You have 40 precious characters of Subject to win out and be one of
        the posts that gets read. Don't waste them. Take care while
        composing them, they are the key that opens the door to getting an
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        Spend them indicating what aspect of Perl others will find if they
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         http://www.cpan.org/authors/id/D/DM/DMR/subjects.post

        Part of the beauty of newsgroup dynamics, is that you can contribute
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        Reversing the chronology of the dialog makes it much harder to
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         http://web.presby.edu/~nnqadmin/nnq/nquote.html

    Speak Perl rather than English, when possible
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        instead will avoid misunderstanding your question or problem.

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        Instead say: I have $var = "foo\tbar", or I have $var = 'foo\tbar',
        or I have $var = <DATA> (and show the data line).

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        You can ask perl itself to help you find common programming mistakes
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        Use copy/paste or your editor's "import" function rather than
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    Provide enough information
        If you do the things in this item, you will have an Extremely Good
        chance of getting people to try and help you with your problem!
        These features are a really big bonus toward your question winning
        out over all of the other posts that you are competing with.

        First make a short (less than 20-30 lines) and *complete* program
        that illustrates the problem you are having. People should be able
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        will find that doing this step very often reveals your problem
        directly. Leading to an answer much more quickly and reliably than
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        Describe *precisely* the input to your program. Also provide example
        input data for your program. If you need to show file input, use the
        __DATA__ token (perldata.pod) to provide the file contents inside of
        your Perl program.

        Show the output (including the verbatim text of any messages) of
        your program.

        Describe how you want the output to be different from what you are
        getting.

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  Social faux pas to avoid
    The first two below are symptoms of lots of FAQ asking here in clpmisc.
    It happens so often that folks will assume that it is happening yet
    again. If you have looked but not found, or found but didn't understand
    the docs, say so in your article.

    Asking a Frequently Asked Question
        It should be understood that you may have missed the applicable FAQ
        when you checked, which is not a big deal. But if the Frequently
        Asked Question is worded similar to your question, folks will assume
        that you did not look at all. Don't become indignant at pointers to
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        If folks think you have not even tried the obvious step of reading
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        annoyed.

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    Asking for emailed answers
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        Ask the question here, get the answer here (maybe).

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        This is a "red flag" phrase. If you find yourself writing that,
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        want.

    Sending a "stealth" Cc copy
        A "stealth Cc" is when you both email and post a reply without
        indicating *in the body* that you are doing so.

  Be extra cautious when you get upset
    Count to ten before composing a followup when you are upset
        This is recommended in all Usenet newsgroups. Here in clpmisc, most
        flaming sub-threads are not about any feature of Perl at all! They
        are most often for what was seen as a breach of netiquette. If you
        have lurked for a bit, then you will know what is expected and won't
        make such posts in the first place.

        But if you get upset, wait a while before writing your followup. I
        recommend waiting at least 30 minutes.

    Count to ten after composing and before posting when you are upset
        After you have written your followup, wait *another* 30 minutes
        before committing yourself by posting it. You cannot take it back
        once it has been said.

AUTHOR
    Tad McClellan and many others on the comp.lang.perl.misc newsgroup.

-- 
Tad McClellan
email: perl -le "print scalar reverse qq/moc.noitatibaher\100cmdat/"


------------------------------

Date: Fri, 15 May 2009 05:47:07 -0700 (PDT)
From: Ameya <ameya.r.sathe@gmail.com>
Subject: problems with writing to an output file
Message-Id: <37996dda-9610-4323-a90d-30be25660f00@v4g2000vba.googlegroups.com>

Hello,

I have a directory with about 4000 CSV files (19MB each). I list the
files in another TXT file and then read each line and store it a $file
variable. I open $file which is a CSV file (19MB) and want to print a
variable in a file. However, that does not seem to be possible
although as a check I print the value on the screen successfully. As
an additional check I also try to print "hello" in the output file but
nothing gets printed. On the other hand if I print hello before
reading the CSV file then it does it successfully.

What could be the problem and how can I get my values to print in the
file. Following is the code snippet explaining the read and write
commands I use in my code.

********************************************
open my $fin, '<', $inFile or die "could not open file '$inFile' $!";
# Open the file for reading, $inFile is a CSV file
while (my $line = <$fh>) {
    chomp($line);
    ...........
    .........
    $a = $line;
}

print $fout "$a\n" or die "Can't print in the file $outFile: $!"; #
There is no value of $a in $outFile
print $fout "Hello\n" or die "Can't print in the file $outFile: $!"; #
There is no "Hello" statement in $outFile
print "Hello\n" or die "Can't print in the file $outFile: $!"; #Prints
Hello on the screen
************************************************

Thanks and Regards,
Ameya


------------------------------

Date: Fri, 15 May 2009 06:05:00 -0700 (PDT)
From: smallpond <smallpond@juno.com>
Subject: Re: problems with writing to an output file
Message-Id: <1ef0ab45-61a6-4a16-8778-e01764c30d52@r36g2000vbr.googlegroups.com>

On May 15, 8:47 am, Ameya <ameya.r.sa...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Hello,
>
> I have a directory with about 4000 CSV files (19MB each). I list the
> files in another TXT file and then read each line and store it a $file
> variable. I open $file which is a CSV file (19MB) and want to print a
> variable in a file. However, that does not seem to be possible
> although as a check I print the value on the screen successfully. As
> an additional check I also try to print "hello" in the output file but
> nothing gets printed. On the other hand if I print hello before
> reading the CSV file then it does it successfully.
>
> What could be the problem and how can I get my values to print in the
> file. Following is the code snippet explaining the read and write
> commands I use in my code.
>
> ********************************************
> open my $fin, '<', $inFile or die "could not open file '$inFile' $!";
> # Open the file for reading, $inFile is a CSV file
> while (my $line = <$fh>) {
>     chomp($line);
>     ...........
>     .........
>     $a = $line;
>
> }
>
> print $fout "$a\n" or die "Can't print in the file $outFile: $!"; #
> There is no value of $a in $outFile
> print $fout "Hello\n" or die "Can't print in the file $outFile: $!"; #
> There is no "Hello" statement in $outFile
> print "Hello\n" or die "Can't print in the file $outFile: $!"; #Prints
> Hello on the screen
> ************************************************
>
> Thanks and Regards,
> Ameya

use warnings;
use strict;

Also, what is the size of $outfFile after this runs?


------------------------------

Date: 6 Apr 2001 21:33:47 GMT (Last modified)
From: Perl-Users-Request@ruby.oce.orst.edu (Perl-Users-Digest Admin) 
Subject: Digest Administrivia (Last modified: 6 Apr 01)
Message-Id: <null>


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End of Perl-Users Digest V11 Issue 2419
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