[31043] in Perl-Users-Digest
Perl-Users Digest, Issue: 2288 Volume: 11
daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (Perl-Users Digest)
Sat Mar 21 14:09:48 2009
Date: Sat, 21 Mar 2009 11:09:13 -0700 (PDT)
From: Perl-Users Digest <Perl-Users-Request@ruby.OCE.ORST.EDU>
To: Perl-Users@ruby.OCE.ORST.EDU (Perl-Users Digest)
Perl-Users Digest Sat, 21 Mar 2009 Volume: 11 Number: 2288
Today's topics:
Re: is anybody using perl for mobile devices? <Alexander.Farber@gmail.com>
Re: Passing ARG[0] parameters to a subroutine in a modu <tadmc@seesig.invalid>
Re: Passing ARG[0] parameters to a subroutine in a modu <tadmc@seesig.invalid>
String parsed wrong by perl <Alexander.Farber@gmail.com>
Re: String parsed wrong by perl <1usa@llenroc.ude.invalid>
Re: String parsed wrong by perl <Alexander.Farber@gmail.com>
Re: String parsed wrong by perl (Jens Thoms Toerring)
Re: String parsed wrong by perl <peter@makholm.net>
Re: String parsed wrong by perl (Jens Thoms Toerring)
Re: String parsed wrong by perl <Alexander.Farber@gmail.com>
Re: String parsed wrong by perl <Alexander.Farber@gmail.com>
Re: String parsed wrong by perl <Alexander.Farber@gmail.com>
Re: String parsed wrong by perl <tadmc@seesig.invalid>
Re: String parsed wrong by perl <tadmc@seesig.invalid>
Re: String parsed wrong by perl <1usa@llenroc.ude.invalid>
Re: use warnings unless $foo <1usa@llenroc.ude.invalid>
Re: use warnings unless $foo <tadmc@seesig.invalid>
Re: use warnings unless $foo <tadmc@seesig.invalid>
Re: use warnings unless $foo <tadmc@seesig.invalid>
Digest Administrivia (Last modified: 6 Apr 01) (Perl-Users-Digest Admin)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Sat, 21 Mar 2009 03:49:21 -0700 (PDT)
From: "A. Farber" <Alexander.Farber@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: is anybody using perl for mobile devices?
Message-Id: <3ea8c990-8921-4013-8b01-a7e74c84b2c4@j38g2000yqa.googlegroups.com>
Sadly Java seems to dominate in that field
(Nokia with S40 and S60, Android, Blackberry,...)
Regards
Alex
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 21 Mar 2009 11:12:31 -0500
From: Tad J McClellan <tadmc@seesig.invalid>
Subject: Re: Passing ARG[0] parameters to a subroutine in a module
Message-Id: <slrngsa4ff.hkt.tadmc@tadmc30.sbcglobal.net>
dn.perl@gmail.com <dn.perl@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> use English ;
>
> Within a single-file script, I tend to use the following method to
> pass arguments :
>
> $rh_result_set = &main::get_data( {
> rh_query => $rh_query,
> rh_db_details => $rh_db_details,
> db_name => $db_name } );
>
> sub get_data
> {
> my $rh_query = $ARG[0]{rh_query};
> my $rh_db_details = $ARG[0]{rh_db_details};
> }
>
>
> Is it possible,
What happened when you tried it?
> and if possible is it advisable, to pass parameters to
> a function in a module in this manner?
Where "this manner" means "by name" rather than "by position"?
Sure.
Where "this manner" means with
use English;
No, as it ignores this, taken straight from perldoc English:
... It is especially important to do this in modules ...
I personally would never use the English module in any production code.
--
Tad McClellan
email: perl -le "print scalar reverse qq/moc.noitatibaher\100cmdat/"
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 21 Mar 2009 10:51:35 -0500
From: Tad J McClellan <tadmc@seesig.invalid>
Subject: Re: Passing ARG[0] parameters to a subroutine in a module
Message-Id: <slrngsa387.hkt.tadmc@tadmc30.sbcglobal.net>
Peter Makholm <peter@makholm.net> wrote:
> dn.perl@gmail.com writes:
>> $rh_result_set = &main::get_data( {
>
> You shouldn't use '&' as it is considered bad style.
It is not merely a style choice.
It is a *semantic* choice.
That is, &get_data() means something different than get_data() does,
and you almost never want the meaning that is associated with &get_data().
The different meanings are pointed out near the top of:
perldoc perlsub
--
Tad McClellan
email: perl -le "print scalar reverse qq/moc.noitatibaher\100cmdat/"
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 21 Mar 2009 03:47:11 -0700 (PDT)
From: "A. Farber" <Alexander.Farber@gmail.com>
Subject: String parsed wrong by perl
Message-Id: <5cc261e5-c0e1-4524-90ed-1aae4e492f98@g38g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
Hi,
I've got a string in my bigger program that parses wrong.
I've prepared a one-liner which shows the problem:
$ perl -e 'print qq{[color=#FF0000:$self->{BBCODE}]$card->{HTML}[/
color:$self->{BBCODE}]}'
Search pattern not terminated at -e line 1.
$ perl -v
This is perl, v5.8.8 built for i386-openbsd
As a workaround I have to split the string:
$ perl -e 'print qq{[color=#FF0000:$self->{BBCODE}]$card->{HTML}} . qq
{[/color:$self->{BBCODE}]}'
[color=#FF0000:][/color:]
Any comments? I haven't seen this happen often
Regards
Alex
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 21 Mar 2009 13:04:47 GMT
From: "A. Sinan Unur" <1usa@llenroc.ude.invalid>
Subject: Re: String parsed wrong by perl
Message-Id: <Xns9BD55C5D35A57asu1cornelledu@127.0.0.1>
"A. Farber" <Alexander.Farber@gmail.com> wrote in
news:5cc261e5-c0e1-4524-90ed-1aae4e492f98@g38g2000yqd.googlegroups.com:
> I've got a string in my bigger program that parses wrong.
> I've prepared a one-liner which shows the problem:
>
> $ perl -e 'print qq{[color=#FF0000:$self->{BBCODE}]$card->{HTML}[/
> color:$self->{BBCODE}]}'
> Search pattern not terminated at -e line 1.
Can you explain, in words, what should be printed by the statement
above?
> Any comments?
This is not the way to interpolate elements pointed to by hash
references into strings.
> I haven't seen this happen often
I don't know what *this* is but I am indeed saddened to see code like
above and I do hope it is rare.
(s)sprintf would help.
So would a proper templating system.
Sinan
--
A. Sinan Unur <1usa@llenroc.ude.invalid>
(remove .invalid and reverse each component for email address)
comp.lang.perl.misc guidelines on the WWW:
http://www.rehabitation.com/clpmisc/
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 21 Mar 2009 06:51:14 -0700 (PDT)
From: "A. Farber" <Alexander.Farber@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: String parsed wrong by perl
Message-Id: <29aee370-d887-4c4f-a8ac-fe8e9d14869d@e18g2000yqo.googlegroups.com>
On 21 Mrz., 14:04, "A. Sinan Unur" <1...@llenroc.ude.invalid> wrote:
> "A. Farber" <Alexander.Far...@gmail.com> wrote innews:5cc261e5-c0e1-4524-90ed-1aae4e492f98@g38g2000yqd.googlegroups.com:
> This is not the way to interpolate elements pointed to by hash
> references into strings.
$ perl -e '$href={a,1}; print "$href->{a}\n";'
1
$ perl -v
This is perl, v5.8.8 built for i386-openbsd
Regards
Alex
------------------------------
Date: 21 Mar 2009 14:18:43 GMT
From: jt@toerring.de (Jens Thoms Toerring)
Subject: Re: String parsed wrong by perl
Message-Id: <72kba3Fqb4g5U1@mid.uni-berlin.de>
A. Farber <Alexander.Farber@gmail.com> wrote:
> I've got a string in my bigger program that parses wrong.
> I've prepared a one-liner which shows the problem:
> $ perl -e 'print qq{[color=#FF0000:$self->{BBCODE}]$card->{HTML}[/color:$self->{BBCODE}]}'
> Search pattern not terminated at -e line 1.
What do you expect? With 'qq' you tell that the string is to be
interpolated. Then you have somewhere in the string
$card->{HTML}[/color:$self->{BBCODE}]
Now, apart from not having a hash reference called '$card' anywhere
in scope you try to tread
$card->{HTML}
as an array (reference), due to the following '['. And as the array
index you have
/color:$self->{BBCODE}
which only makes sense as a regexp, due to the leading '/'.
But since there's no trailing '/' you get told that the
search pattern is not terminated.
> $ perl -v
> This is perl, v5.8.8 built for i386-openbsd
> As a workaround I have to split the string:
> $ perl -e 'print qq{[color=#FF0000:$self->{BBCODE}]$card->{HTML}} . qq
> {[/color:$self->{BBCODE}]}'
> [color=#FF0000:][/color:]
That works because you avoid '$card->{HTML}' being seen as an
array (reference).
Another way around that would be to write
$ perl -e 'print qq{[color=#FF0000:$self->{BBCODE}]$card->{HTML}\[/color:$self->{BBCODE}]}'
since then the '[' following '$card->{HTML}' can't be mistaken
to be an access of an array element.
But, please, why do would use such a horrible mess at all?
Regards, Jens
--
\ Jens Thoms Toerring ___ jt@toerring.de
\__________________________ http://toerring.de
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 21 Mar 2009 15:23:33 +0100
From: Peter Makholm <peter@makholm.net>
Subject: Re: String parsed wrong by perl
Message-Id: <87vdq3ymxm.fsf@vps1.hacking.dk>
"A. Farber" <Alexander.Farber@gmail.com> writes:
> Hi,
>
> I've got a string in my bigger program that parses wrong.
> I've prepared a one-liner which shows the problem:
>
> $ perl -e 'print qq{[color=#FF0000:$self->{BBCODE}]$card->{HTML}[/
> color:$self->{BBCODE}]}'
> Search pattern not terminated at -e line 1.
What happes is that perl assumes that you want to access $card as it
is an hash of arrays (or at least that $card->{HTML} is an arrayref).
To do this it has to parse '/color:$self->{BBCODE}' as an expression
into this array. And this is clearly an unterminated search pattern.
//Makholm
------------------------------
Date: 21 Mar 2009 14:25:18 GMT
From: jt@toerring.de (Jens Thoms Toerring)
Subject: Re: String parsed wrong by perl
Message-Id: <72kbmeFqb4g5U2@mid.uni-berlin.de>
A. Farber <Alexander.Farber@gmail.com> wrote:
> On 21 Mrz., 14:04, "A. Sinan Unur" <1...@llenroc.ude.invalid> wrote:
> > "A. Farber" <Alexander.Far...@gmail.com> wrote innews:5cc261e5-c0e1-4524-90ed-1aae4e492f98@g38g2000yqd.googlegroups.com:
> > This is not the way to interpolate elements pointed to by hash
> > references into strings.
> $ perl -e '$href={a,1}; print "$href->{a}\n";'
> 1
What do you mean by that? The result looks pretty fine and
to be expected. Don't you think so? And in your original post
you where using something that looked more like this
$ perl -e '$href={a,(1,2,3)}; print "$href->{a}[0]\n";'
1
but with some invalid expression instead of '0' as the array
index (and $href never defined).
Regards, Jens
--
\ Jens Thoms Toerring ___ jt@toerring.de
\__________________________ http://toerring.de
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 21 Mar 2009 08:59:54 -0700 (PDT)
From: "A. Farber" <Alexander.Farber@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: String parsed wrong by perl
Message-Id: <20d71f45-7aa6-48a8-b312-fc82abfb3968@v19g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
Hello,
On 21 Mrz., 15:18, j...@toerring.de (Jens Thoms Toerring) wrote:
> A. Farber <Alexander.Far...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > $ perl -e 'print qq{[color=#FF0000:$self->{BBCODE}]$card->{HTML}[/color:$self->{BBCODE}]}'
> > Search pattern not terminated at -e line 1.
>
> What do you expect? With 'qq' you tell that the string is to be
> interpolated. Then you have somewhere in the string
>
> $card->{HTML}[/color:$self->{BBCODE}]
>
> Now, apart from not having a hash reference called '$card' anywhere
> in scope you try to tread
Yes it's missing in the oneliner, but I obviously have
the $card in scope in my program, so this doesn't matter.
> $card->{HTML}
>
> as an array (reference), due to the following '['. And as the array
> index you have
Yes, that is it - thanks for explanation.
> But, please, why do would use such a horrible mess at all?
I'm surprised why people jump at my code,
I don't think it's that horrible.
I'm just trying to list cards of red and black
suits in a post of a phpBB3-forum, like here:
http://preferans.de/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=9
If phpBB3 has decided to code font colors by
[color=#FF0000:random]blah[/color:random]
then it isn't my fault, isn't it?
And the suggested usage of sprintf wouldn't help anything.
For me "$href->{x}: $href->{y}, $href->{z}"
is not less readable than
sprintf "%s: %s, %s", $href->{x}, $href->{y}, $href->{z};
Regards
Alex
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 21 Mar 2009 09:03:50 -0700 (PDT)
From: "A. Farber" <Alexander.Farber@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: String parsed wrong by perl
Message-Id: <04bb5eff-d4a1-4fcc-b428-7a07ee5d50a0@v15g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
On 21 Mrz., 15:25, j...@toerring.de (Jens Thoms Toerring) wrote:
> A. Farber <Alexander.Far...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > $ perl -e '$href={a,1}; print "$href->{a}\n";'
> > 1
>
> What do you mean by that?
I mean by that that "A. Sinan Unur" is wrong when saying
"This is not the way to interpolate elements pointed to by hash
references into strings."
Regards
Alex
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 21 Mar 2009 09:05:19 -0700 (PDT)
From: "A. Farber" <Alexander.Farber@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: String parsed wrong by perl
Message-Id: <9b31f10c-569e-4c2e-95d4-5d23a5025077@h20g2000yqj.googlegroups.com>
Hello Peter,
On 21 Mrz., 15:23, Peter Makholm <pe...@makholm.net> wrote:
> > $ perl -e 'print qq{[color=#FF0000:$self->{BBCODE}]$card->{HTML}[/
> > color:$self->{BBCODE}]}'
> > Search pattern not terminated at -e line 1.
>
> What happens is that perl assumes that you want to access $card as it
> is an hash of arrays (or at least that $card->{HTML} is an arrayref).
>
> To do this it has to parse '/color:$self->{BBCODE}' as an expression
> into this array. And this is clearly an unterminated search pattern.
yes, thanks. Now I understand it was parsing
it as an array index (I missed that before).
I'm just still a bit surprised, that perl tries
to parse a regex from inside of a string...
It never parses "xxx/blah/xxx" doesn't it?
Regards
Alex
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 21 Mar 2009 12:20:38 -0500
From: Tad J McClellan <tadmc@seesig.invalid>
Subject: Re: String parsed wrong by perl
Message-Id: <slrngsa8f6.iha.tadmc@tadmc30.sbcglobal.net>
A. Farber <Alexander.Farber@gmail.com> wrote:
> Hello Peter,
>
> On 21 Mrz., 15:23, Peter Makholm <pe...@makholm.net> wrote:
>> > $ perl -e 'print qq{[color=#FF0000:$self->{BBCODE}]$card->{HTML}[/
>> > color:$self->{BBCODE}]}'
>> > Search pattern not terminated at -e line 1.
>>
>> What happens is that perl assumes that you want to access $card as it
>> is an hash of arrays (or at least that $card->{HTML} is an arrayref).
>>
>> To do this it has to parse '/color:$self->{BBCODE}' as an expression
>> into this array. And this is clearly an unterminated search pattern.
>
> yes, thanks. Now I understand it was parsing
> it as an array index (I missed that before).
>
> I'm just still a bit surprised, that perl tries
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Note that if you had used printf(), you would not have been surprised.
The surprise results from interpolation.
If there is no interpolation, there is no surprise!
> to parse a regex from inside of a string...
It doesn't.
It tries to parse expressions that appear in subscripts though.
$_ = $some_array[/color:$self->{BBCODE}];
has the same syntax error as
$_ = "$some_array[/color:$self->{BBCODE}]";
does.
Would you be surprised by a syntax error in that first one? Probably not.
> It never parses "xxx/blah/xxx" doesn't it?
No, because that is merely a string, there are no subscripts that
need to be evaluated in order to complete interpolation.
--
Tad McClellan
email: perl -le "print scalar reverse qq/moc.noitatibaher\100cmdat/"
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 21 Mar 2009 12:09:35 -0500
From: Tad J McClellan <tadmc@seesig.invalid>
Subject: Re: String parsed wrong by perl
Message-Id: <slrngsa7qf.iha.tadmc@tadmc30.sbcglobal.net>
A. Farber <Alexander.Farber@gmail.com> wrote:
> On 21 Mrz., 15:18, j...@toerring.de (Jens Thoms Toerring) wrote:
>> A. Farber <Alexander.Far...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> > $ perl -e 'print qq{[color=#FF0000:$self->{BBCODE}]$card->{HTML}[/color:$self->{BBCODE}]}'
>> But, please, why do would use such a horrible mess at all?
>
> I'm surprised why people jump at my code,
> I don't think it's that horrible.
It is horrible for maintenance.
When debugging code you are often looking for uses of variables.
Having uses of variables embedded between loads of (necessarily)
homely data makes them harder to find.
> If phpBB3 has decided to code font colors by
> [color=#FF0000:random]blah[/color:random]
> then it isn't my fault, isn't it?
Of course not, but that is the data.
The complaints are about the code, not about the data.
The ugliness of the data cannot be controlled by the programmer,
the ugliness of the code can be.
> And the suggested usage of sprintf wouldn't help anything.
> For me "$href->{x}: $href->{y}, $href->{z}"
^^ ^^
^^ ^^
> is not less readable than
> sprintf "%s: %s, %s", $href->{x}, $href->{y}, $href->{z};
That is because there are only 4 characters of data in your
contrived example, while there are 25 characters of data
in your real code.
[color=#FF0000:%s]%s[/color:%s]
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ^ ^^^^^^^^ ^
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ^ ^^^^^^^^ ^
Finding a needle next to a stalk of hay is easier than finding
a needle in a haystack. :-)
printf makes it easy to see the variables that are used in the statement:
printf '[color=#FF0000:%s]%s[/color:%s]',
$self->{BBCODE}, $card->{HTML}, $self->{BBCODE};
--
Tad McClellan
email: perl -le "print scalar reverse qq/moc.noitatibaher\100cmdat/"
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 21 Mar 2009 17:48:40 GMT
From: "A. Sinan Unur" <1usa@llenroc.ude.invalid>
Subject: Re: String parsed wrong by perl
Message-Id: <Xns9BD58C7E48C72asu1cornelledu@127.0.0.1>
"A. Farber" <Alexander.Farber@gmail.com> wrote in news:04bb5eff-d4a1-
4fcc-b428-7a07ee5d50a0@v15g2000yqn.googlegroups.com:
> On 21 Mrz., 15:25, j...@toerring.de (Jens Thoms Toerring) wrote:
>> A. Farber <Alexander.Far...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> > $ perl -e '$href={a,1}; print "$href->{a}\n";'
>> > 1
>>
>> What do you mean by that?
>
> I mean by that that "A. Sinan Unur" is wrong when saying
> "This is not the way to interpolate elements pointed to by hash
> references into strings."
You are missing the point.
I did not say you cannot interpolate this way.
While your simple example clearly works, things get very hairy very
quickly as your question shows.
You can fit a square peg in a round hole but why do it?
Use (s)printf or a proper templating system.
Sinan
--
A. Sinan Unur <1usa@llenroc.ude.invalid>
(remove .invalid and reverse each component for email address)
comp.lang.perl.misc guidelines on the WWW:
http://www.rehabitation.com/clpmisc/
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 21 Mar 2009 13:15:46 GMT
From: "A. Sinan Unur" <1usa@llenroc.ude.invalid>
Subject: Re: use warnings unless $foo
Message-Id: <Xns9BD55E39DE3D1asu1cornelledu@127.0.0.1>
Florian Kaufmann <sensorflo@gmail.com> wrote in news:53fe0fcb-e404-47e1-
a113-445546769d0d@e35g2000yqc.googlegroups.com:
> use, no, package are special in that I can not say
>
> use warnings if $foo;
perldoc if
Example:
C:\Temp> cat t.pl
#!/usr/bin/perl
use if $ENV{STRICT}, 'strict';
use if $ENV{WARNINGS}, 'warnings';
print "$x = something\n";
__END__
C:\Temp> t
= something
C:\Temp> t
Name "main::x" used only once: possible typo at C:\Temp\t.pl line 6.
Use of uninitialized value $x in concatenation (.) or string at C:\Temp
\t.pl line 6.
= something
C:\Temp> set strict=1
C:\Temp> t
Global symbol "$x" requires explicit package name at C:\Temp\t.pl line
6. Execution of C:\Temp\t.pl aborted due to compilation errors.
Sinan
--
A. Sinan Unur <1usa@llenroc.ude.invalid>
(remove .invalid and reverse each component for email address)
comp.lang.perl.misc guidelines on the WWW:
http://www.rehabitation.com/clpmisc/
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 21 Mar 2009 10:27:05 -0500
From: Tad J McClellan <tadmc@seesig.invalid>
Subject: Re: use warnings unless $foo
Message-Id: <slrngsa1q9.hkt.tadmc@tadmc30.sbcglobal.net>
Jürgen Exner <jurgenex@hotmail.com> wrote:
> Florian Kaufmann <sensorflo@gmail.com> wrote:
>>use warnings if $foo;
>
> Well, yes, you can. But it doesn't do what you seem to expect it to do.
> use() is executed at compile time because it is a short form of
> BEGIN { require Module; import Module LIST; }
>
> If you don't want that but want it to be executed at compile time after
^^^^^^^^^^^^
s/compile time/run time/;
> evaluating and assessing $foo then just use the block without the
> BEGIN/END:
> if $foo then {require warnings; import warnings;}
--
Tad McClellan
email: perl -le "print scalar reverse qq/moc.noitatibaher\100cmdat/"
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 21 Mar 2009 10:25:48 -0500
From: Tad J McClellan <tadmc@seesig.invalid>
Subject: Re: use warnings unless $foo
Message-Id: <slrngsa1ns.hkt.tadmc@tadmc30.sbcglobal.net>
Jürgen Exner <jurgenex@hotmail.com> wrote:
> As for where to find "BEGIN/END": that's a good question :-) I couldn't
> find an entry after a brief search.
See the "BEGIN, CHECK, INIT and END" section in perlmod.pod.
Took me less than two seconds to find it, because of the indexes
I've created as described at the end of the Perl problem resolution checklist:
http://groups.google.com/groups/search?as_umsgid=slrna1mmj4.bj1.tadmc%40tadmc26.august.net
I don't actually do the "cd ..." part, I've defined an alias for that.
So I just did:
gopod
grep BEGIN all.heads
:-)
--
Tad McClellan
email: perl -le "print scalar reverse qq/moc.noitatibaher\100cmdat/"
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 21 Mar 2009 10:30:50 -0500
From: Tad J McClellan <tadmc@seesig.invalid>
Subject: Re: use warnings unless $foo
Message-Id: <slrngsa21a.hkt.tadmc@tadmc30.sbcglobal.net>
Florian Kaufmann <sensorflo@gmail.com> wrote:
Please choose one posting address, and stick to it.
> It's not that I currently wan't to do such sort of thing
It's not that you currently wa not to do such sort of thing?
--
Tad McClellan
email: perl -le "print scalar reverse qq/moc.noitatibaher\100cmdat/"
------------------------------
Date: 6 Apr 2001 21:33:47 GMT (Last modified)
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#where x is the volume number and y is the issue number.
#For other requests pertaining to the digest, send mail to
#perl-users-request@ruby.oce.orst.edu. Do not waste your time or mine
#sending perl questions to the -request address, I don't have time to
#answer them even if I did know the answer.
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End of Perl-Users Digest V11 Issue 2288
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