[31016] in Perl-Users-Digest
Perl-Users Digest, Issue: 2261 Volume: 11
daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (Perl-Users Digest)
Sun Mar 8 21:09:44 2009
Date: Sun, 8 Mar 2009 18:09:11 -0700 (PDT)
From: Perl-Users Digest <Perl-Users-Request@ruby.OCE.ORST.EDU>
To: Perl-Users@ruby.OCE.ORST.EDU (Perl-Users Digest)
Perl-Users Digest Sun, 8 Mar 2009 Volume: 11 Number: 2261
Today's topics:
Re: "system" with [ ] in filename <perl@marc-s.de>
Re: Ban Xah Lee <brownh@teufel.hartford-hwp.com>
Re: Ban Xah Lee <w_a_x_man@yahoo.com>
Re: Ban Xah Lee <rt8396@gmail.com>
Re: Ban Xah Lee <see_website@mindprod.com.invalid>
Re: good editor for perl <mikaelb@df.lth.se>
Re: Once again: Rolling Frame! <mstep@podiuminternational.org>
Re: perl as email client <mikaelb@df.lth.se>
Re: perl as email client <mikaelb@df.lth.se>
Re: What-if algorithm <hjp-usenet2@hjp.at>
Re: What-if algorithm <gamo@telecable.es>
Re: What-if algorithm <xhoster@gmail.com>
Re: Which Lisp to Learn? <arne@vajhoej.dk>
Re: Why Perl 5.10.0 is still considered stable? <smallpond@juno.com>
Re: Why Perl 5.10.0 is still considered stable? <tim@burlyhost.com>
Re: Why Perl 5.10.0 is still considered stable? <hjp-usenet2@hjp.at>
Digest Administrivia (Last modified: 6 Apr 01) (Perl-Users-Digest Admin)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Sun, 08 Mar 2009 09:24:05 +0100
From: Marc Lucksch <perl@marc-s.de>
Subject: Re: "system" with [ ] in filename
Message-Id: <govval$2gm1$1@ariadne.rz.tu-clausthal.de>
Ben Morrow schrieb:
> For a simple example, it
> appears to me from the code that
>
> system q/echo/, q/"foo"/;
>
> does the same as
>
> system q/echo/, q/foo/;
>
No, at least not for me
C:\Users\Maluku>perl
system q/echo/, q/foo/;
system q/echo/, q/"foo"/;
__END__
foo
"foo"
C:\Users\Maluku>
(Vista, x64)
Marc "Maluku" Lucksch
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 08 Mar 2009 07:26:53 -0400
From: Haines Brown <brownh@teufel.hartford-hwp.com>
Subject: Re: Ban Xah Lee
Message-Id: <87mybwntky.fsf@teufel.hartford-hwp.com>
A glance at Ban Xah Lee's web page reveals that he is what is called an
autodidact - someone who is self-taught. While this is an admirable
achievement, it carries with it certain dangers.
One is that it gives the illusion that learning is not a social
activity, but an individual one. This is not the case. The autodidact
merely abandons conventional structures for his education and pursues
his own course. However, from the moment they are born, our development
arises through social contact. If you study library books in your garret
entirely on your down, the book is still a social communication. What
autodidaction shows is that there is more than one way to develop
through social contact, not that it can be done without it.
If the bulk of one's development necessarily takes place through social
communication, then one depends on the effectiveness of that
communication. This is why we use conventional words, familiar concepts
and accepted facts to build an argument. When we cannot do so, there
should be good reason.
That is why, when we seek to challenge conventional wisdom, we ought to
do so in a manner least likely to offend or confuse. Rudeness,
unnecessary obscurity, novel words or concepts that are not mandatory,
reliance on contested facts rather than conventional knowledge,
insensitivity for one's intended readership, threaten the line of
communication that makes it unlikely to bring others over to our
position and also ultimately unlikely that we can develop ourselves.
Another danger facing the autodidact is that it is too easy to acquire a
contempt for others. If we have studied a field obsessively for some
years, it is natural that we end in a position where our knowledge will
generally be superior. But this does not make us superior. We don't live
in a world in which social relations arise from a private possession of
expertise, but in a world in which we develop ourselves through our
relations with others. As any teacher will attest, you often learn more
from the ignorant than from the expert. It is our social solidarity that
gives rise to potentials that allow us to exceed our private capacities,
not our being able to acquire and privately possess intellectual riches
for ourselves.
--
Haines Brown, KB1GRM
------------------------------
Date: 8 Mar 2009 11:52:27 GMT
From: "William James" <w_a_x_man@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Ban Xah Lee
Message-Id: <gp0bhr02fk1@enews2.newsguy.com>
Haines Brown wrote:
> If we have studied a field obsessively for some
> years, it is natural that we end in a position where our knowledge will
> generally be superior. But this does not make us superior.
What does make us superior? Are you so dishonest or insane as
to assert that everyone is equal?
This line of sophistry leads to the conclusion that Isaac Newton
was not superior to a microcephalous idiot. Probably several---
nay, thousands!---of these idiots had already invented calculus
and Newtonian mechanics, only to see their achievements ignored by
the elitists.
Or perhaps you mean that although these idiots were grossly inferior to
Newton in intellect, character, personality, and knowledge, their
other assets elevated them to Newton's level---their ability to
discharge copious amounts of spittle, mucous, urine, and execrement.
And in the workplace today, the idiots should be paid the same as
the geniuses. Superiority is a fascist lie.
From each according to his abilities; to each according to his needs.
All animals are created equal, but some are more equal than others.
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 8 Mar 2009 10:39:34 -0700 (PDT)
From: r <rt8396@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Ban Xah Lee
Message-Id: <945ef9ea-950c-4a97-a7a3-7a2f6b7ebc10@v39g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
On Mar 7, 5:52=A0pm, Xah Lee <xah...@gmail.com> wrote:
> HARASSMENT BY JOHN BOKMA
>
> I was harassed by a newsgroup poster John Bokma (a regular of
> comp.lang.perl.misc) to have my web hosting service provider kick me
> off. This happened in 2006.
I know the feeling. I have this super geek with nothing but time on
his hands constantly following me around like a flies on an elephants
crack. This lowlife has nothing better to do with his time. But, i
guess at least this give his poor miserable life some meaning. It's
nice to know i can help those poor saps less fortunate than me :)
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 08 Mar 2009 17:53:38 -0700
From: Roedy Green <see_website@mindprod.com.invalid>
Subject: Re: Ban Xah Lee
Message-Id: <r1q8r4d2qtbffbtjumcd9i16d1kj0se3ti@4ax.com>
On Sat, 7 Mar 2009 14:52:02 -0800 (PST), Xah Lee <xahlee@gmail.com>
wrote, quoted or indirectly quoted someone who said :
>
>I consider this post relevant because i've been perennially gossiped
>about in comp.lang.* groups today and in the past 5 or 10 years, many
>of the threads mentioning my name are not started by me nor did i ever
>participate.
The reason you are unpopular has nothing to with what you say. It is
that you don't participate in discussions. You just pontificate from
on high. It implies a sort of haughty superciliousness that people are
reacting to.
--
Roedy Green Canadian Mind Products
http://mindprod.com
"Learning is not compulsory... neither is survival."
~ Dr. W. (William) Edwards Deming (born: 1900-10-14 died: 1993-12-20 at age: 93))
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 08 Mar 2009 20:09:33 +0100
From: "M.O.B. i L." <mikaelb@df.lth.se>
Subject: Re: good editor for perl
Message-Id: <gp1556$3ui$1@news.lth.se>
abcd wrote:
> I'am looking for good editor which show parameters of functions....
I tried <http://www.epic-ide.org/> but it crashed to often. I went back
to Kate (in Fedora and Kubuntu Linux). In Windows I would probably use
Notepad++.
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 8 Mar 2009 09:37:33 -0700 (PDT)
From: Marek <mstep@podiuminternational.org>
Subject: Re: Once again: Rolling Frame!
Message-Id: <73e9d00a-ee8e-475a-8649-ca7b6578a2ff@t3g2000yqa.googlegroups.com>
On Mar 1, 2:12=A0am, s...@netherlands.com wrote:
> snip
Thank you sln for your great code. I discovered it only two days ago
and I tried to thank you by email. But I was not "intelligent" enough
to complete your email address right.
I got through your code and I am amazed! I would like to code like
you, but I am still a beginner.
Could you send me your email-address? I have a question to you ...
Best greetings from Munich
marek
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 08 Mar 2009 12:07:03 +0100
From: "M.O.B. i L." <mikaelb@df.lth.se>
Subject: Re: perl as email client
Message-Id: <gp08sh$qdq$1@news.lth.se>
Larry Gates wrote:
>
> I've used perl as a usenet client before, but now that I have a site out
> there with an email address that is supposed to get to me, and I wanted to
> look at it through the rubric of perl.
>
> How would a person use perl to simulate what OE does?
>
> What activestate modules are required for a given method? I would have to
> think there would be as many ways to do this in perl as building a wall for
> a carpenter.
I would use an IMAP client:
<http://search.cpan.org/search?query=imap&mode=all>.
It would enable me to transfer mails from one account to a GMail account
for backup. GMail uses IMAP with SSL (imap.gmail.com, port 993). I have
not done this myself yet and would also appeciate recommendations of
which modules actually work.
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 08 Mar 2009 15:41:26 +0100
From: "M.O.B. i L." <mikaelb@df.lth.se>
Subject: Re: perl as email client
Message-Id: <gp0lef$tie$1@news.lth.se>
M.O.B. i L. wrote:
> Larry Gates wrote:
>> I've used perl as a usenet client before, but now that I have a site out
>> there with an email address that is supposed to get to me, and I wanted to
>> look at it through the rubric of perl.
>>
>> How would a person use perl to simulate what OE does?
>>
>> What activestate modules are required for a given method? I would have to
>> think there would be as many ways to do this in perl as building a wall for
>> a carpenter.
>
> I would use an IMAP client:
> <http://search.cpan.org/search?query=imap&mode=all>.
>
> It would enable me to transfer mails from one account to a GMail account
> for backup. GMail uses IMAP with SSL (imap.gmail.com, port 993). I have
> not done this myself yet and would also appeciate recommendations of
> which modules actually work.
I found one start to this:
#!/usr/bin/perl
# Based on a script on <http://www.perlmonks.org/?node_id=649742>.
use strict;
use warnings;
use Mail::IMAPClient;
use IO::Socket::SSL;
my %settings = (
IMAP => 'imap.gmail.com',
PORT => 993,
);
@ARGV == 2
or die 'Provide username and password for the IMAP server,'
. " on the command line.\n";
@settings{qw( USER PASS )} = @ARGV;
my $socket = IO::Socket::SSL->new(
PeerAddr => $settings{IMAP},
PeerPort => $settings{PORT},
) or die "socket(): $@";
my $client = Mail::IMAPClient->new(
Socket => $socket,
User => $settings{USER},
Password => $settings{PASS},
) or die "new(): $@";
print "Logged in\n" if $client->IsAuthenticated();
my @folders = $client->folders();
print join( "\n* ", 'Folders:', @folders ), "\n";
$client->logout();
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 8 Mar 2009 15:40:39 +0100
From: "Peter J. Holzer" <hjp-usenet2@hjp.at>
Subject: Re: What-if algorithm
Message-Id: <slrngr7m77.k6m.hjp-usenet2@hrunkner.hjp.at>
On 2009-03-07 23:15, gamo <gamo@telecable.es> wrote:
> On Sat, 7 Mar 2009, Peter J. Holzer wrote:
>> On 2009-03-04 04:59, Jürgen Exner <jurgenex@hotmail.com> wrote:
>> > "Peter J. Holzer" <hjp-usenet2@hjp.at> wrote:
>> >>On 2009-03-03 15:04, Jürgen Exner <jurgenex@hotmail.com> wrote:
>> >>> gamo <gamo@telecable.es> wrote:
>> >>>>In excel you have a menu function that consist of given one
>> > [...]
>> >>> And you can do that with a simple grep():
>> >>>
>> >>> @results = grep (f($_) == XXX, @candidates);
>> >>
>> >>That may be a bit impractical if @candidates is the set of all floating
>> >>point numbers.
>> >
>> > True, but it is highly unlikely that the set of all floating point
>> > numbers is stored in an Excel spreadsheet.
>>
>> I don't think you understood what the Excel feature ("Solver" in
>> English, "Zielwertsuche" in German) mentioned by the OP
>> does: You have a cell A with a formula which references (possibly
>> indirectly) a cell B. Now you can ask Excel to compute the a value of B
>> so that A has a desired value.
>>
>> So, yes, the range of possible input values is the whole range of
>> floating point numbers.
>
> I'm furious
Some people are quick to anger.
> about your recurrency to the solver I never mentioned.
>
> The function is called "buscar objetivo," which could be a translation of
> "goal seek."
Yes, I misremembered Xho's posting. The builtin function is indeed
called "goal seek" in English Excel, "Solver" is a plugin. I thought it
was the other way around.
I don't have an English Excel to check the name (and no, I won't buy
one just because of the off-chance that someone might take my ignorance
of Microsoft products as a personal insult) so I mentioned the German name
of the function "Zielwertsuche" - I also expect that German name is more
useful to Jürgen than the English one.
> It does what you had said, BUT it's not the solver.
Which is probably completely irrelevant to my argument. The function you
and I meant (however it is called) does not grep over some values stored
in a spreadsheet but tries to find a root of the equation (by whatever
means - this is irrelevant, too). So Jürgen's reply that "it is highly
unlikely that the set of all floating point numbers is stored in an
Excel spreadsheet" missed the point.
hp
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 8 Mar 2009 20:05:53 +0100
From: gamo <gamo@telecable.es>
Subject: Re: What-if algorithm
Message-Id: <alpine.LNX.2.00.0903081955050.17590@jvz.es>
This message is in MIME format. The first part should be readable text,
while the remaining parts are likely unreadable without MIME-aware tools.
--8323328-2040882479-1236539153=:17590
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: QUOTED-PRINTABLE
On Sun, 8 Mar 2009, Peter J. Holzer wrote:
> > It does what you had said, BUT it's not the solver.
>=20
> Which is probably completely irrelevant to my argument. The function you
> and I meant (however it is called) does not grep over some values stored
> in a spreadsheet but tries to find a root of the equation (by whatever
> means - this is irrelevant, too). So J=FCrgen's reply that "it is highly
No, it's not irrelevant. It's the key to solve the problem.
Playing with a financial function, the bisection method works, but
how could I garantize that every function could be reformulated as
f()-XXX and expect the method works? =20
> unlikely that the set of all floating point numbers is stored in an
> Excel spreadsheet" missed the point.
>=20
> =09hp
>=20
Yes, but it was an elegant response with a grep in the hand.
--=20
http://www.telecable.es/personales/gamo/
"Was it a car or a cat I saw?"
perl -E 'say 111_111_111**2;'
--8323328-2040882479-1236539153=:17590--
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 08 Mar 2009 14:51:39 -0700
From: Xho Jingleheimerschmidt <xhoster@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: What-if algorithm
Message-Id: <49b44d3a$0$10136$ed362ca5@nr5-q3a.newsreader.com>
gamo wrote:
> On Sun, 8 Mar 2009, Peter J. Holzer wrote:
>
>>> It does what you had said, BUT it's not the solver.
>> Which is probably completely irrelevant to my argument. The function you
>> and I meant (however it is called) does not grep over some values stored
>> in a spreadsheet but tries to find a root of the equation (by whatever
>> means - this is irrelevant, too). So Jürgen's reply that "it is highly
>
> No, it's not irrelevant. It's the key to solve the problem.
> Playing with a financial function, the bisection method works,
Depending on what your "financial function" is.
> but
> how could I garantize that every function could be reformulated as
> f()-XXX and expect the method works?
You can't, whether in Excel or Perl. And I've been exposed to plenty of
both to know. The ultimate responsibility lies with you, either way.
If you don't like it, take a demotion.
Xho
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 08 Mar 2009 12:10:41 -0400
From: =?UTF-8?B?QXJuZSBWYWpow7hq?= <arne@vajhoej.dk>
Subject: Re: Which Lisp to Learn?
Message-Id: <49b3edfe$0$90271$14726298@news.sunsite.dk>
Xah Lee wrote:
> For those of you imperative programers who kept on hearing about lisp
> and is tempted to learn, then, ...
You:
* consider yourself unfairly treated by various communities
* post a long drivel about various Lisp flavors to newsgroups
that are not in any way Lisp related
?
There seems to be a disconnect somewhere.
Arne
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 8 Mar 2009 09:01:39 -0700 (PDT)
From: smallpond <smallpond@juno.com>
Subject: Re: Why Perl 5.10.0 is still considered stable?
Message-Id: <67396d28-16ee-496a-8e2f-6d8600bc315b@j35g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>
On Mar 7, 11:22=A0pm, Tim Greer <t...@burlyhost.com> wrote:
> howa wrote:
> >http://www.cpan.org/src/README.html
>
> > The latest branch is 1 year, 2 months, 19 days old, and suppose the
> > memory leak is still exist in this version?
>
> >http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=3D503975
>
> > Why not fix it?
>
> The patch was made to 5.10.0.17, which is still 5.10.0, so I assume
> that's why it's showing as the latest.
I don't use Debian, but Fedora's latest build was Feb 16, 2009
using their release number 5.10.0-56 and still has the leak.
I didn't see it in the Fedora bugzilla database so I added it.
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 08 Mar 2009 13:44:32 -0700
From: Tim Greer <tim@burlyhost.com>
Subject: Re: Why Perl 5.10.0 is still considered stable?
Message-Id: <Q6Wsl.79502$RJ7.54288@newsfe18.iad>
smallpond wrote:
> On Mar 7, 11:22Â pm, Tim Greer <t...@burlyhost.com> wrote:
>> howa wrote:
>> >http://www.cpan.org/src/README.html
>>
>> > The latest branch is 1 year, 2 months, 19 days old, and suppose the
>> > memory leak is still exist in this version?
>>
>> >http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=503975
>>
>> > Why not fix it?
>>
>> The patch was made to 5.10.0.17, which is still 5.10.0, so I assume
>> that's why it's showing as the latest.
>
> I don't use Debian, but Fedora's latest build was Feb 16, 2009
> using their release number 5.10.0-56 and still has the leak.
> I didn't see it in the Fedora bugzilla database so I added it.
I'm actually on CentOS. I had just meant to say that 0.17 is supposed
to be when it was patched. I gather it wasn't then. Interesting.
--
Tim Greer, CEO/Founder/CTO, BurlyHost.com, Inc.
Shared Hosting, Reseller Hosting, Dedicated & Semi-Dedicated servers
and Custom Hosting. 24/7 support, 30 day guarantee, secure servers.
Industry's most experienced staff! -- Web Hosting With Muscle!
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 8 Mar 2009 23:10:05 +0100
From: "Peter J. Holzer" <hjp-usenet2@hjp.at>
Subject: Re: Why Perl 5.10.0 is still considered stable?
Message-Id: <slrngr8ghu.oo6.hjp-usenet2@hrunkner.hjp.at>
On 2009-03-08 20:44, Tim Greer <tim@burlyhost.com> wrote:
> smallpond wrote:
>
>> On Mar 7, 11:22 pm, Tim Greer <t...@burlyhost.com> wrote:
>>> howa wrote:
>>> >http://www.cpan.org/src/README.html
>>>
>>> > The latest branch is 1 year, 2 months, 19 days old, and suppose the
>>> > memory leak is still exist in this version?
>>>
>>> >http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=503975
>>>
>>> > Why not fix it?
>>>
>>> The patch was made to 5.10.0.17, which is still 5.10.0, so I assume
>>> that's why it's showing as the latest.
I was wondering what perl 5.10.0.17 was supposed to be (there was no
formal release since 5.10.0, much less 17 of them), until I noticed that
the link above mentions perl-5.10.0-17 (i.e., release 17 of the Debian
package of perl 5.10.0).
The latest official release of perl is still 5.10.0. I don't know when
5.10.1 will be ready, although chromatic mentioned about a month ago[1]
that it is "on the way" (those following the p5p list may know more).
>> I don't use Debian, but Fedora's latest build was Feb 16, 2009
>> using their release number 5.10.0-56 and still has the leak.
Debian and Fedora are independent distributions. They may or may not
apply fixes from bleadperl to their packages.
hp
[1] http://www.modernperlbooks.com/mt/2009/01/why-perl-510-is-modern-and-perl-589-is-legacy.html
------------------------------
Date: 6 Apr 2001 21:33:47 GMT (Last modified)
From: Perl-Users-Request@ruby.oce.orst.edu (Perl-Users-Digest Admin)
Subject: Digest Administrivia (Last modified: 6 Apr 01)
Message-Id: <null>
Administrivia:
#The Perl-Users Digest is a retransmission of the USENET newsgroup
#comp.lang.perl.misc. For subscription or unsubscription requests, send
#the single line:
#
# subscribe perl-users
#or:
# unsubscribe perl-users
#
#to almanac@ruby.oce.orst.edu.
NOTE: due to the current flood of worm email banging on ruby, the smtp
server on ruby has been shut off until further notice.
To submit articles to comp.lang.perl.announce, send your article to
clpa@perl.com.
#To request back copies (available for a week or so), send your request
#to almanac@ruby.oce.orst.edu with the command "send perl-users x.y",
#where x is the volume number and y is the issue number.
#For other requests pertaining to the digest, send mail to
#perl-users-request@ruby.oce.orst.edu. Do not waste your time or mine
#sending perl questions to the -request address, I don't have time to
#answer them even if I did know the answer.
------------------------------
End of Perl-Users Digest V11 Issue 2261
***************************************
