[30970] in Perl-Users-Digest
Perl-Users Digest, Issue: 2215 Volume: 11
daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (Perl-Users Digest)
Tue Feb 17 06:09:45 2009
Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2009 03:09:08 -0800 (PST)
From: Perl-Users Digest <Perl-Users-Request@ruby.OCE.ORST.EDU>
To: Perl-Users@ruby.OCE.ORST.EDU (Perl-Users Digest)
Perl-Users Digest Tue, 17 Feb 2009 Volume: 11 Number: 2215
Today's topics:
Fusion AJF 12 AJF12 AJ12F Jordans 12 fusions n5ghdfg@sina.com
Generating html page in UTF-8 dn.perl@gmail.com
Re: how do I print the name and value of a scalar <ben@morrow.me.uk>
Re: how do I print the name and value of a scalar <cwilbur@chromatico.net>
Re: how do I print the name and value of a scalar <devnull4711@web.de>
Re: how do I print the name and value of a scalar <bugbear@trim_papermule.co.uk_trim>
Re: how do I print the name and value of a scalar <RedGrittyBrick@spamweary.invalid>
new CPAN modules on Tue Feb 17 2009 (Randal Schwartz)
Perl script - Linux to Windows <guru.naveen@gmail.com>
Posting Guidelines for comp.lang.perl.misc ($Revision: tadmc@seesig.invalid
Re: time and place of satellite coincidence <larry@example.invalid>
Digest Administrivia (Last modified: 6 Apr 01) (Perl-Users-Digest Admin)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2009 00:02:23 -0800 (PST)
From: n5ghdfg@sina.com
Subject: Fusion AJF 12 AJF12 AJ12F Jordans 12 fusions
Message-Id: <820d98c6-50f6-4145-81fa-8cc8bde90303@g1g2000pra.googlegroups.com>
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------------------------------
Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2009 03:04:56 -0800 (PST)
From: dn.perl@gmail.com
Subject: Generating html page in UTF-8
Message-Id: <b7315b13-a9cc-472e-8323-8db89617c65d@k36g2000pri.googlegroups.com>
I am using a myscript.cgi, written in Perl, to query an Oracle table,
and display a few fields in a browser. One field is of the type LONG
or CLOB, depending on which Oracle Server I am querying. If I run the
"select myfield from mytable" command from a Windows Oracle client, I
can see the field correctly. If I run the same command within 'sqlplus
user/password' session within FreeBSD, the text of the CLOB field is
not shown correctly.
I think the problem is two-fold. I am now passing (hopefully) the
correct ora_charset to DBI->connect ("db-details", "user",
"password" , {ora_charset => correct_set}). But the browser still
would not show the field correctly. I wonder whether I need to specify
a parameter like 'ora_charset' to the 'encoding type' for the html
page, and whether some library like 'use utf-8' is available which
will help solve the issue. If there is any CLPerlM forum FAQ which
addresses the issue, please do point me to it, and I shall be
thankful.
------------------
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2009 05:28:04 +0000
From: Ben Morrow <ben@morrow.me.uk>
Subject: Re: how do I print the name and value of a scalar
Message-Id: <4gup66-vdc.ln1@osiris.mauzo.dyndns.org>
Quoth cartercc <cartercc@gmail.com>:
>
> It's kind of hard to do when you explain this to my boss (which I did)
> and ask for some time to redesign the whole thing from top to bottom
> and do it right (which I did) and be told that it wasn't important
> enough to do but to leave it alone.
Do it piecemeal. Next time you add a feature or tweak something, take a
minute to clean up the bit of code you'll be changing first. You'll
likely find, on average, that this makes adding features quicker, not
slower, since it'll get easier as the code gets cleaner.
The next step, of course, is to start writing a test suite, so that you
can be sure you haven't broken some necessary behaviour with your
changes. Again, if you write the tests only as you need them, rather
than trying to do the whole job at once, you can justify it as simply
being a necessary part of making the change that you were asked for; and
again, you'll actually end up saving time in the long run.
> If I were a prophet and could foretell the monster around the corner,
> I'd be all set. Do you have any advice on how to do this?
Yes. A 'little script' that works will *always* turn into a big script,
and then into a problem. Spend the five minutes it takes to think about
how this might be used in future up front.
Writing maintainable code is a skill, and like all such things it takes
practice. It's important to avoid writing something hugely general that
will never be used, as that is a waste of time. If you can get into the
habit of thinking 'one level up' from the immediate problem you are
solving, and of noticing, when you come to change something, what you
did last time that makes your job now harder, you should be able to
acquire good habits in time.
Ben
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2009 00:42:58 -0500
From: Charlton Wilbur <cwilbur@chromatico.net>
Subject: Re: how do I print the name and value of a scalar
Message-Id: <861vtxr53x.fsf@mithril.chromatico.net>
>>>>> "cc" == cartercc <cartercc@gmail.com> writes:
cc> On Feb 16, 10:48 pm, Charlton Wilbur <cwil...@chromatico.net> wrote:
>> The sooner you face this pain, the better off you will be. Your
>> mess of a "solution" is going to cause you more trouble overall
>> than biting the bullet and actually fixing the problem would
>> have.
cc> This didn't start out like this.
It never does!
cc> It started out as a quick and dirty little solution to a little
cc> problem. It was a database problem and the purpose was to clean
cc> up some data, and it was MY automation. When some other people
cc> saw what a good thing it was, they went to my supervisor, and my
cc> supervisor came to me, and over a period of time it just grew,
cc> without any thought given to design and with no planning
cc> whatsoever.
Exactly. And now you're dealing with the ramifications of that lack of
thought and lack of planning. But instead of taking what you know now
and cleaning up the code, you're just piling band-aids on it.
>> You've had this explained to you at least twice so far in this
>> group, and it does not seem to have sunk in yet. Perhaps the
>> next time you have a crisis programming experience, you'll
>> reflect on this and the light bulb will go on. They say the
>> third time is the charm, after all.
cc> Come talk to my boss, and his boss. I do my work on schedule and
cc> under budget.
No, you don't. The only reason you're on schedule and under budget is
because you're deferring a huge amount of maintenance. This is like
claiming you're living well within your means because you're charging
half your monthly expenses to a credit card. It works for a while, but
when you hit your credit limit, it all comes crashing down.
cc> If I were a prophet and could foretell the monster around the
cc> corner, I'd be all set. Do you have any advice on how to do
cc> this?
You don't know what the monster around the corner will be, but it's not
relevant. Whether it's a basilisk or a manticore, it will be easier to
deal with if your code base is clean.
Right now you *do* know that your code base has reached the point where
it's difficult to maintain. Why are you dicking around with band-aid
solutions on top of rickety data structures on top of bad design
decisions on top of a script that was quick-and-dirty in the first
place? Why are you wasting your time defending bad design decisions
when you could be fixing them?
You asked a question about how to solve a problem. No fewer than five
people told you the best, cleanest way to solve that problem. And then
you came back here and crowed about finding a solution that you were
explicitly told was a bad idea. Why do you come here for advice if
you're just going to ignore it? Why should anyone bother to answer your
questions if you're just going to ignore the answers?
Charlton
--
Charlton Wilbur
cwilbur@chromatico.net
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2009 08:41:51 +0100
From: Frank Seitz <devnull4711@web.de>
Subject: Re: how do I print the name and value of a scalar
Message-Id: <6vv81kFm1cueU2@mid.individual.net>
Ben Morrow wrote:
> Quoth Frank Seitz <devnull4711@web.de>:
>> cartercc wrote:
>>>
>>> What I need is a way to get at the NAME of a variable as well as a
>>> value.
>> AFAIK it's not possible in Perl to get the name of a lexical (my) variable.
>
> You know wrong :).
Ups :)
> It's possible with PadWalker. Whether it's a good
> idea is of course another matter (nearly always it isn't).
Why? Seems, that this is the thing the OP is looking for.
Frank
--
Dipl.-Inform. Frank Seitz; http://www.fseitz.de/
Anwendungen für Ihr Internet und Intranet
Tel: 04103/180301; Fax: -02; Industriestr. 31, 22880 Wedel
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2009 09:49:04 +0000
From: bugbear <bugbear@trim_papermule.co.uk_trim>
Subject: Re: how do I print the name and value of a scalar
Message-Id: <Us6dnU1TQsGNFQfUnZ2dnUVZ8uydnZ2d@posted.plusnet>
cartercc wrote:
> I, too, am a slow learner. I'm a bright guy, but it takes a long time
> before something sinks in.
That's a new definition of "bright guy"
BugBear
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2009 11:03:49 +0000
From: RedGrittyBrick <RedGrittyBrick@spamweary.invalid>
Subject: Re: how do I print the name and value of a scalar
Message-Id: <499a9998$0$2516$da0feed9@news.zen.co.uk>
cartercc wrote:
> I might add that in Lisp I can do this without a problem,
My advice (worth what you paid for it) is that it is better to write
Lisp in Lisp.
--
RGB
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2009 05:42:25 GMT
From: merlyn@stonehenge.com (Randal Schwartz)
Subject: new CPAN modules on Tue Feb 17 2009
Message-Id: <KF73up.D2A@zorch.sf-bay.org>
The following modules have recently been added to or updated in the
Comprehensive Perl Archive Network (CPAN). You can install them using the
instructions in the 'perlmodinstall' page included with your Perl
distribution.
Acme-CPANAuthors-You-re_using-0.01
http://search.cpan.org/~vpit/Acme-CPANAuthors-You-re_using-0.01/
We are the CPAN authors that have written the modules installed for this perl.
----
Alien-SeleniumRC-0.91
http://search.cpan.org/~hisso/Alien-SeleniumRC-0.91/
Packages the Selenium Remote Control server.
----
Alien-SeleniumRC-1.00
http://search.cpan.org/~hisso/Alien-SeleniumRC-1.00/
Packages the Selenium Remote Control server.
----
Apache2-ASP-2.29
http://search.cpan.org/~johnd/Apache2-ASP-2.29/
ASP for Perl, reloaded.
----
App-Benchmark-Accessors-0.06
http://search.cpan.org/~marcel/App-Benchmark-Accessors-0.06/
Benchmark accessor generators
----
App-Maisha-0.05
http://search.cpan.org/~barbie/App-Maisha-0.05/
A command line social micro-blog networking tool.
----
App-Maisha-0.06
http://search.cpan.org/~barbie/App-Maisha-0.06/
A command line social micro-blog networking tool.
----
App-Maisha-Plugin-PingFM-0.01
http://search.cpan.org/~barbie/App-Maisha-Plugin-PingFM-0.01/
Maisha interface to ping.fm
----
Astro-satpass-0.022
http://search.cpan.org/~wyant/Astro-satpass-0.022/
----
Biblio-COUNTER-0.10
http://search.cpan.org/~nkuitse/Biblio-COUNTER-0.10/
COUNTER Codes of Practice report processing
----
CPAN-Testers-Data-Generator-0.36
http://search.cpan.org/~barbie/CPAN-Testers-Data-Generator-0.36/
Download and summarize CPAN Testers data
----
CPAN-WWW-Testers-0.49
http://search.cpan.org/~barbie/CPAN-WWW-Testers-0.49/
Present CPAN Testers data
----
CPANPLUS-0.85_05
http://search.cpan.org/~kane/CPANPLUS-0.85_05/
API & CLI access to the CPAN mirrors
----
Catalyst-Example-InstantCRUD-0.0.21
http://search.cpan.org/~zby/Catalyst-Example-InstantCRUD-0.0.21/
A CRUD scaffolding for Catalyst.
----
Catalyst-View-JavaScript-Minifier-XS
http://search.cpan.org/~drinchev/Catalyst-View-JavaScript-Minifier-XS/
Concenate and minify your JavaScript files.
----
DBICx-TxnInsert-0.01
http://search.cpan.org/~vovkasm/DBICx-TxnInsert-0.01/
wrap all inserts into transaction
----
DBIx-Class-ResultSet-RecursiveUpdate-v0.001
http://search.cpan.org/~zby/DBIx-Class-ResultSet-RecursiveUpdate-v0.001/
like update_or_create - but recursive
----
DBIx-Compare-1.7
http://search.cpan.org/~cjones/DBIx-Compare-1.7/
Compare database content
----
DBIx-Perlish-0.52
http://search.cpan.org/~gruber/DBIx-Perlish-0.52/
a perlish interface to SQL databases
----
Devel-MRO-0.05
http://search.cpan.org/~gfuji/Devel-MRO-0.05/
Provides mro functions for XS modules
----
Encode-2.31
http://search.cpan.org/~dankogai/Encode-2.31/
character encodings
----
Encode-IMAPUTF7-1.00_01
http://search.cpan.org/~pmakholm/Encode-IMAPUTF7-1.00_01/
modification of UTF-7 encoding for IMAP
----
Form-Processor-Model-DBIC-0.07
http://search.cpan.org/~gshank/Form-Processor-Model-DBIC-0.07/
Model class for Form Processor using DBIx::Class
----
HTML-FormHandler-0.15
http://search.cpan.org/~gshank/HTML-FormHandler-0.15/
form handler written in Moose
----
HTTP-Engine-Middleware-0.05
http://search.cpan.org/~yappo/HTTP-Engine-Middleware-0.05/
middlewares distribution
----
Hash-AsObject-0.11
http://search.cpan.org/~nkuitse/Hash-AsObject-0.11/
treat hashes as objects, with arbitrary accessors/mutators
----
Hash-FieldHash-0.04
http://search.cpan.org/~gfuji/Hash-FieldHash-0.04/
A lightweight field hash implementation
----
IPC-MMA-0.52
http://search.cpan.org/~mackenna/IPC-MMA-0.52/
Shared Memory using Ralf Engelschall's mm library
----
Mail-IMAPClient-3.14
http://search.cpan.org/~markov/Mail-IMAPClient-3.14/
An IMAP Client API
----
Math-Geometry-Voronoi-1.2
http://search.cpan.org/~samtregar/Math-Geometry-Voronoi-1.2/
compute Voronoi diagrams from sets of points
----
Method-Lexical-0.03
http://search.cpan.org/~chocolate/Method-Lexical-0.03/
private methods and lexical method overrides
----
Mojo-0.9002
http://search.cpan.org/~sri/Mojo-0.9002/
The Web In A Box!
----
MooseX-FollowPBP-0.02
http://search.cpan.org/~drolsky/MooseX-FollowPBP-0.02/
Name your accessors get_foo() and set_foo()
----
MouseX-Types-Path-Class-0.04
http://search.cpan.org/~masaki/MouseX-Types-Path-Class-0.04/
A Path::Class type library for Mouse
----
Net-SFTP-Foreign-1.48_01
http://search.cpan.org/~salva/Net-SFTP-Foreign-1.48_01/
SSH File Transfer Protocol client
----
Net-SFTP-Foreign-1.48_02
http://search.cpan.org/~salva/Net-SFTP-Foreign-1.48_02/
SSH File Transfer Protocol client
----
Net-SloppyXMPP-0.04
http://search.cpan.org/~wilsond/Net-SloppyXMPP-0.04/
A rather sloppy XMPP client implementation
----
Net-Twitter-RandomUpdate-1.2
http://search.cpan.org/~wazzuteke/Net-Twitter-RandomUpdate-1.2/
Make people think you're paying attention to Twitter
----
Net-Twitter-RandomUpdate-1.6
http://search.cpan.org/~wazzuteke/Net-Twitter-RandomUpdate-1.6/
Make people think you're paying attention to Twitter
----
OCR-Naive-0.07
http://search.cpan.org/~karasik/OCR-Naive-0.07/
convert images into text in an extremely naive fashion
----
POE-Component-Client-SMTP-0.21
http://search.cpan.org/~ultradm/POE-Component-Client-SMTP-0.21/
Asynchronous mail sending with POE
----
Profile-Log-0.02
http://search.cpan.org/~samv/Profile-Log-0.02/
collect loggable application profiling stats
----
Rose-HTMLx-Form-DBIC-0.01
http://search.cpan.org/~zby/Rose-HTMLx-Form-DBIC-0.01/
Module abstract (<= 44 characters) goes here
----
SQL-Abstract-1.49_02
http://search.cpan.org/~mstrout/SQL-Abstract-1.49_02/
Generate SQL from Perl data structures
----
SQL-Translator-0.09004
http://search.cpan.org/~jrobinson/SQL-Translator-0.09004/
manipulate structured data definitions (SQL and more)
----
SVG-TT-Graph-0.11
http://search.cpan.org/~ianroddis/SVG-TT-Graph-0.11/
Base object for generating SVG Graphs
----
SVG-TT-Graph-0.12
http://search.cpan.org/~ianroddis/SVG-TT-Graph-0.12/
Base object for generating SVG Graphs
----
Simo-0.0802
http://search.cpan.org/~kimoto/Simo-0.0802/
Very simple framework for Object Oriented Perl.
----
Simo-Util-0.01_01
http://search.cpan.org/~kimoto/Simo-Util-0.01_01/
Utility Class for Simo
----
Simo-Util-0.01_02
http://search.cpan.org/~kimoto/Simo-Util-0.01_02/
Utility Class for Simo
----
Simo-Wrapper-0.01_01
http://search.cpan.org/~kimoto/Simo-Wrapper-0.01_01/
Object wrapper to manipulate attrs and methods.
----
Sys-Mmap-Simple-0.13
http://search.cpan.org/~leont/Sys-Mmap-Simple-0.13/
Memory mapping made simple and safe.
----
Test-Weaken-1.003_003
http://search.cpan.org/~jkegl/Test-Weaken-1.003_003/
Test that freed references are, indeed, freed
----
WeakRef-Auto-0.02
http://search.cpan.org/~gfuji/WeakRef-Auto-0.02/
Automatically makes references weaken
----
XML-Grammar-Fortune-0.0106
http://search.cpan.org/~shlomif/XML-Grammar-Fortune-0.0106/
convert the FortunesXML grammar to other formats and from plaintext.
----
XML-Table2XML-1.4
http://search.cpan.org/~rkapl/XML-Table2XML-1.4/
Generic conversion of tabular data to XML by reverting Excel's flattener methodology.
----
XML-Writer-Simple-0.04
http://search.cpan.org/~ambs/XML-Writer-Simple-0.04/
Create XML files easily!
----
Xacobeo-0.07_02
http://search.cpan.org/~potyl/Xacobeo-0.07_02/
XPath (XML Path Language) visualizer.
----
eBay-API-Simple-0.04
http://search.cpan.org/~tkeefer/eBay-API-Simple-0.04/
Simple version of the eBay API supporting all APIs
----
libwww-perl-5.825
http://search.cpan.org/~gaas/libwww-perl-5.825/
----
resched-0.7.6
http://search.cpan.org/~jonadab/resched-0.7.6/
If you're an author of one of these modules, please submit a detailed
announcement to comp.lang.perl.announce, and we'll pass it along.
This message was generated by a Perl program described in my Linux
Magazine column, which can be found on-line (along with more than
200 other freely available past column articles) at
http://www.stonehenge.com/merlyn/LinuxMag/col82.html
print "Just another Perl hacker," # the original
--
Randal L. Schwartz - Stonehenge Consulting Services, Inc. - +1 503 777 0095
<merlyn@stonehenge.com> <URL:http://www.stonehenge.com/merlyn/>
Smalltalk/Perl/Unix consulting, Technical writing, Comedy, etc. etc.
See http://methodsandmessages.vox.com/ for Smalltalk and Seaside discussion
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2009 01:04:06 -0800 (PST)
From: guru <guru.naveen@gmail.com>
Subject: Perl script - Linux to Windows
Message-Id: <95f8f414-65e6-4978-bc37-398ecfb2a554@t39g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
HI
I have written a script which runs successfully in Linux. But When I
took same script and ran in Windows it is failing.
I tried to figure out if there any problem with following,
1. Paths handling --> Wheter this should be handled.
I came to know that perl will handle path structure depending
on the OS.
2. Configuration setting.
Any other parameters I need to look while porting to Windows.
Thanks & Regards
Gururaja
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2009 08:16:22 GMT
From: tadmc@seesig.invalid
Subject: Posting Guidelines for comp.lang.perl.misc ($Revision: 1.9 $)
Message-Id: <qnuml.5499$%54.272@nlpi070.nbdc.sbc.com>
Outline
Before posting to comp.lang.perl.misc
Must
- Check the Perl Frequently Asked Questions (FAQ)
- Check the other standard Perl docs (*.pod)
Really Really Should
- Lurk for a while before posting
- Search a Usenet archive
If You Like
- Check Other Resources
Posting to comp.lang.perl.misc
Is there a better place to ask your question?
- Question should be about Perl, not about the application area
How to participate (post) in the clpmisc community
- Carefully choose the contents of your Subject header
- Use an effective followup style
- Speak Perl rather than English, when possible
- Ask perl to help you
- Do not re-type Perl code
- Provide enough information
- Do not provide too much information
- Do not post binaries, HTML, or MIME
Social faux pas to avoid
- Asking a Frequently Asked Question
- Asking a question easily answered by a cursory doc search
- Asking for emailed answers
- Beware of saying "doesn't work"
- Sending a "stealth" Cc copy
Be extra cautious when you get upset
- Count to ten before composing a followup when you are upset
- Count to ten after composing and before posting when you are upset
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Posting Guidelines for comp.lang.perl.misc ($Revision: 1.9 $)
This newsgroup, commonly called clpmisc, is a technical newsgroup
intended to be used for discussion of Perl related issues (except job
postings), whether it be comments or questions.
As you would expect, clpmisc discussions are usually very technical in
nature and there are conventions for conduct in technical newsgroups
going somewhat beyond those in non-technical newsgroups.
The article at:
http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html
describes how to get answers from technical people in general.
This article describes things that you should, and should not, do to
increase your chances of getting an answer to your Perl question. It is
available in POD, HTML and plain text formats at:
http://www.rehabitation.com/clpmisc.shtml
For more information about netiquette in general, see the "Netiquette
Guidelines" at:
http://andrew2.andrew.cmu.edu/rfc/rfc1855.html
A note to newsgroup "regulars":
Do not use these guidelines as a "license to flame" or other
meanness. It is possible that a poster is unaware of things
discussed here. Give them the benefit of the doubt, and just
help them learn how to post, rather than assume that they do
know and are being the "bad kind" of Lazy.
A note about technical terms used here:
In this document, we use words like "must" and "should" as
they're used in technical conversation (such as you will
encounter in this newsgroup). When we say that you *must* do
something, we mean that if you don't do that something, then
it's unlikely that you will benefit much from this group.
We're not bossing you around; we're making the point without
lots of words.
Do *NOT* send email to the maintainer of these guidelines. It will be
discarded unread. The guidelines belong to the newsgroup so all
discussion should appear in the newsgroup. I am just the secretary that
writes down the consensus of the group.
Before posting to comp.lang.perl.misc
Must
This section describes things that you *must* do before posting to
clpmisc, in order to maximize your chances of getting meaningful replies
to your inquiry and to avoid getting flamed for being lazy and trying to
have others do your work.
The perl distribution includes documentation that is copied to your hard
drive when you install perl. Also installed is a program for looking
things up in that (and other) documentation named 'perldoc'.
You should either find out where the docs got installed on your system,
or use perldoc to find them for you. Type "perldoc perldoc" to learn how
to use perldoc itself. Type "perldoc perl" to start reading Perl's
standard documentation.
Check the Perl Frequently Asked Questions (FAQ)
Checking the FAQ before posting is required in Big 8 newsgroups in
general, there is nothing clpmisc-specific about this requirement.
You are expected to do this in nearly all newsgroups.
You can use the "-q" switch with perldoc to do a word search of the
questions in the Perl FAQs.
Check the other standard Perl docs (*.pod)
The perl distribution comes with much more documentation than is
available for most other newsgroups, so in clpmisc you should also
see if you can find an answer in the other (non-FAQ) standard docs
before posting.
It is *not* required, or even expected, that you actually *read* all of
Perl's standard docs, only that you spend a few minutes searching them
before posting.
Try doing a word-search in the standard docs for some words/phrases
taken from your problem statement or from your very carefully worded
"Subject:" header.
Really Really Should
This section describes things that you *really should* do before posting
to clpmisc.
Lurk for a while before posting
This is very important and expected in all newsgroups. Lurking means
to monitor a newsgroup for a period to become familiar with local
customs. Each newsgroup has specific customs and rituals. Knowing
these before you participate will help avoid embarrassing social
situations. Consider yourself to be a foreigner at first!
Search a Usenet archive
There are tens of thousands of Perl programmers. It is very likely
that your question has already been asked (and answered). See if you
can find where it has already been answered.
One such searchable archive is:
http://groups.google.com/advanced_search
If You Like
This section describes things that you *can* do before posting to
clpmisc.
Check Other Resources
You may want to check in books or on web sites to see if you can
find the answer to your question.
But you need to consider the source of such information: there are a
lot of very poor Perl books and web sites, and several good ones
too, of course.
Posting to comp.lang.perl.misc
There can be 200 messages in clpmisc in a single day. Nobody is going to
read every article. They must decide somehow which articles they are
going to read, and which they will skip.
Your post is in competition with 199 other posts. You need to "win"
before a person who can help you will even read your question.
These sections describe how you can help keep your article from being
one of the "skipped" ones.
Is there a better place to ask your question?
Question should be about Perl, not about the application area
It can be difficult to separate out where your problem really is,
but you should make a conscious effort to post to the most
applicable newsgroup. That is, after all, where you are the most
likely to find the people who know how to answer your question.
Being able to "partition" a problem is an essential skill for
effectively troubleshooting programming problems. If you don't get
that right, you end up looking for answers in the wrong places.
It should be understood that you may not know that the root of your
problem is not Perl-related (the two most frequent ones are CGI and
Operating System related), so off-topic postings will happen from
time to time. Be gracious when someone helps you find a better place
to ask your question by pointing you to a more applicable newsgroup.
How to participate (post) in the clpmisc community
Carefully choose the contents of your Subject header
You have 40 precious characters of Subject to win out and be one of
the posts that gets read. Don't waste them. Take care while
composing them, they are the key that opens the door to getting an
answer.
Spend them indicating what aspect of Perl others will find if they
should decide to read your article.
Do not spend them indicating "experience level" (guru, newbie...).
Do not spend them pleading (please read, urgent, help!...).
Do not spend them on non-Subjects (Perl question, one-word
Subject...)
For more information on choosing a Subject see "Choosing Good
Subject Lines":
http://www.cpan.org/authors/id/D/DM/DMR/subjects.post
Part of the beauty of newsgroup dynamics, is that you can contribute
to the community with your very first post! If your choice of
Subject leads a fellow Perler to find the thread you are starting,
then even asking a question helps us all.
Use an effective followup style
When composing a followup, quote only enough text to establish the
context for the comments that you will add. Always indicate who
wrote the quoted material. Never quote an entire article. Never
quote a .signature (unless that is what you are commenting on).
Intersperse your comments *following* each section of quoted text to
which they relate. Unappreciated followup styles are referred to as
"top-posting", "Jeopardy" (because the answer comes before the
question), or "TOFU" (Text Over, Fullquote Under).
Reversing the chronology of the dialog makes it much harder to
understand (some folks won't even read it if written in that style).
For more information on quoting style, see:
http://web.presby.edu/~nnqadmin/nnq/nquote.html
Speak Perl rather than English, when possible
Perl is much more precise than natural language. Saying it in Perl
instead will avoid misunderstanding your question or problem.
Do not say: I have variable with "foo\tbar" in it.
Instead say: I have $var = "foo\tbar", or I have $var = 'foo\tbar',
or I have $var = <DATA> (and show the data line).
Ask perl to help you
You can ask perl itself to help you find common programming mistakes
by doing two things: enable warnings (perldoc warnings) and enable
"strict"ures (perldoc strict).
You should not bother the hundreds/thousands of readers of the
newsgroup without first seeing if a machine can help you find your
problem. It is demeaning to be asked to do the work of a machine. It
will annoy the readers of your article.
You can look up any of the messages that perl might issue to find
out what the message means and how to resolve the potential mistake
(perldoc perldiag). If you would like perl to look them up for you,
you can put "use diagnostics;" near the top of your program.
Do not re-type Perl code
Use copy/paste or your editor's "import" function rather than
attempting to type in your code. If you make a typo you will get
followups about your typos instead of about the question you are
trying to get answered.
Provide enough information
If you do the things in this item, you will have an Extremely Good
chance of getting people to try and help you with your problem!
These features are a really big bonus toward your question winning
out over all of the other posts that you are competing with.
First make a short (less than 20-30 lines) and *complete* program
that illustrates the problem you are having. People should be able
to run your program by copy/pasting the code from your article. (You
will find that doing this step very often reveals your problem
directly. Leading to an answer much more quickly and reliably than
posting to Usenet.)
Describe *precisely* the input to your program. Also provide example
input data for your program. If you need to show file input, use the
__DATA__ token (perldata.pod) to provide the file contents inside of
your Perl program.
Show the output (including the verbatim text of any messages) of
your program.
Describe how you want the output to be different from what you are
getting.
If you have no idea at all of how to code up your situation, be sure
to at least describe the 2 things that you *do* know: input and
desired output.
Do not provide too much information
Do not just post your entire program for debugging. Most especially
do not post someone *else's* entire program.
Do not post binaries, HTML, or MIME
clpmisc is a text only newsgroup. If you have images or binaries
that explain your question, put them in a publically accessible
place (like a Web server) and provide a pointer to that location. If
you include code, cut and paste it directly in the message body.
Don't attach anything to the message. Don't post vcards or HTML.
Many people (and even some Usenet servers) will automatically filter
out such messages. Many people will not be able to easily read your
post. Plain text is something everyone can read.
Social faux pas to avoid
The first two below are symptoms of lots of FAQ asking here in clpmisc.
It happens so often that folks will assume that it is happening yet
again. If you have looked but not found, or found but didn't understand
the docs, say so in your article.
Asking a Frequently Asked Question
It should be understood that you may have missed the applicable FAQ
when you checked, which is not a big deal. But if the Frequently
Asked Question is worded similar to your question, folks will assume
that you did not look at all. Don't become indignant at pointers to
the FAQ, particularly if it solves your problem.
Asking a question easily answered by a cursory doc search
If folks think you have not even tried the obvious step of reading
the docs applicable to your problem, they are likely to become
annoyed.
If you are flamed for not checking when you *did* check, then just
shrug it off (and take the answer that you got).
Asking for emailed answers
Emailed answers benefit one person. Posted answers benefit the
entire community. If folks can take the time to answer your
question, then you can take the time to go get the answer in the
same place where you asked the question.
It is OK to ask for a *copy* of the answer to be emailed, but many
will ignore such requests anyway. If you munge your address, you
should never expect (or ask) to get email in response to a Usenet
post.
Ask the question here, get the answer here (maybe).
Beware of saying "doesn't work"
This is a "red flag" phrase. If you find yourself writing that,
pause and see if you can't describe what is not working without
saying "doesn't work". That is, describe how it is not what you
want.
Sending a "stealth" Cc copy
A "stealth Cc" is when you both email and post a reply without
indicating *in the body* that you are doing so.
Be extra cautious when you get upset
Count to ten before composing a followup when you are upset
This is recommended in all Usenet newsgroups. Here in clpmisc, most
flaming sub-threads are not about any feature of Perl at all! They
are most often for what was seen as a breach of netiquette. If you
have lurked for a bit, then you will know what is expected and won't
make such posts in the first place.
But if you get upset, wait a while before writing your followup. I
recommend waiting at least 30 minutes.
Count to ten after composing and before posting when you are upset
After you have written your followup, wait *another* 30 minutes
before committing yourself by posting it. You cannot take it back
once it has been said.
AUTHOR
Tad McClellan and many others on the comp.lang.perl.misc newsgroup.
--
Tad McClellan
email: perl -le "print scalar reverse qq/moc.noitatibaher\100cmdat/"
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2009 22:19:30 -0700
From: Larry Gates <larry@example.invalid>
Subject: Re: time and place of satellite coincidence
Message-Id: <1rw8pxjj8ljdr.1atz1uu8qqp0r$.dlg@40tude.net>
On Mon, 16 Feb 2009 22:04:32 -0700, Larry Gates wrote:
> #!/usr/bin/perl
> use warnings;
> use strict;
> use HTML::TreeBuilder;
> use LWP::Simple;
> use HTML::Element;
> use URI::URL;
>
> my $url = url('http://www.perl.com/cgi-bin/cpan_mod');
> $url->query_form(module => 'DB_File', readme => 1);
> my $content = get($url);
> print $url;
> # perl Uri1.pl
I'm still scratching my head on this one. This is what it looks like when
you fire up the link in a brwoser:
http://i41.tinypic.com/rk4f40.jpg
--
larry gates
It's, uh, pseudo code. Yeah, that's the ticket...
[...]
And "unicode" is pseudo code for $encoding. :-)
-- Larry Wall in <199808071717.KAA12628@wall.org>
------------------------------
Date: 6 Apr 2001 21:33:47 GMT (Last modified)
From: Perl-Users-Request@ruby.oce.orst.edu (Perl-Users-Digest Admin)
Subject: Digest Administrivia (Last modified: 6 Apr 01)
Message-Id: <null>
Administrivia:
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------------------------------
End of Perl-Users Digest V11 Issue 2215
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