[30875] in Perl-Users-Digest
Perl-Users Digest, Issue: 2120 Volume: 11
daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (Perl-Users Digest)
Tue Jan 13 06:09:42 2009
Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2009 03:09:06 -0800 (PST)
From: Perl-Users Digest <Perl-Users-Request@ruby.OCE.ORST.EDU>
To: Perl-Users@ruby.OCE.ORST.EDU (Perl-Users Digest)
Perl-Users Digest Tue, 13 Jan 2009 Volume: 11 Number: 2120
Today's topics:
Re: Arrays instead of files into hashes <tim@burlyhost.com>
Re: Help: Cannot acquire data by split <tim@burlyhost.com>
Re: Help: Cannot acquire data by split <whynot@pozharski.name>
How do I call Rakudo? (Stefan Ram)
new CPAN modules on Tue Jan 13 2009 (Randal Schwartz)
Re: opening a file <whynot@pozharski.name>
Posting Guidelines for comp.lang.perl.misc ($Revision: tadmc@seesig.invalid
Digest Administrivia (Last modified: 6 Apr 01) (Perl-Users-Digest Admin)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2009 23:18:42 -0800
From: Tim Greer <tim@burlyhost.com>
Subject: Re: Arrays instead of files into hashes
Message-Id: <nfXal.44655$1s6.42550@newsfe01.iad>
sln@netherlands.com wrote:
> On Mon, 12 Jan 2009 19:15:37 -0800, Tim Greer <tim@burlyhost.com>
> wrote:
>
>>sln@netherlands.com wrote:
>>
>>> On Mon, 12 Jan 2009 16:41:12 -0800, Tim Greer <tim@burlyhost.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>>sln@netherlands.com wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On Mon, 12 Jan 2009 17:55:36 -0600, Tad J McClellan
>>>>> <tadmc@seesig.invalid> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>Francois Massion <massion@gmx.de> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I would like to use 2 arrays, says @array1 and
>>>>>>> @array2 instead of files a.txt and b.txt.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> while (<WORDLIST2>) {
>>>>>>> $list2{$_}=1; #or any other value
>>>>>>> }
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> my @b_txt = <WORDLIST2>;
>>>>> Isin't slurp a bit rich?
>>>>> [snip]
>>>>>
>>>>> sln
>>>>
>>>>Probably, but that's what the OP asked for. I can't imagine why,
>>>>but perhaps they just need to elaborate on their reasons to get a
>>>>good
>>>>answer. Personally, I didn't answer them, because I had to ask what
>>>>they were wanting to do, since it didn't seem clear to me (or didn't
>>>>seem to have a purpose and would just waste good processing).
>>>
>>> There's a thin line between yes and no, but if its not yes....
>>>
>>> sln
>>
>>Its (its) or it's (it is) not yes, and what isn't? I'd say it is yes
>>(being it's "probably" going to be more resource intensive to grab all
>>of the contents of WORLDLIST2 into an array), only to compare then,
>>comparing it to a while loop to see if a hash value exists before
>>adding it (if the OP wants to add it). I absolutely don't understand
>>your cryptic response. I'm certain you were being sarcastic, but I
>>don't know if you mean to have a question in there.
>
> This no joke! I don't write anything unles I need to!
> I said before this is beginner code. No sarcasm inteneded.
> I do not want to go through this. The prototypes are wrong along
> with alot of other stuff. Amazingly, this heards all the dup porn out
> there into safely stored data. Go figure... it works like a champ!!
>
> sln
>
> mrg_test1.pl
<snip irrelevant code>
What are you yammering on about? Why did you paste a long portion of
irrelevant code to this OP's question? Regardless, that code could be
summarized and be much shorter, but since it's not relevant to the OPs
problem, there's no reason to discuss it. You were doing okay for a
couple for days, and now you're posting crazy nonsense again. And...
talk about bloated code, geez!
--
Tim Greer, CEO/Founder/CTO, BurlyHost.com, Inc.
Shared Hosting, Reseller Hosting, Dedicated & Semi-Dedicated servers
and Custom Hosting. 24/7 support, 30 day guarantee, secure servers.
Industry's most experienced staff! -- Web Hosting With Muscle!
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2009 23:13:36 -0800
From: Tim Greer <tim@burlyhost.com>
Subject: Re: Help: Cannot acquire data by split
Message-Id: <AaXal.17748$Nv1.16057@newsfe03.iad>
sln@netherlands.com wrote:
> On Mon, 12 Jan 2009 12:15:42 -0800, Tim Greer <tim@burlyhost.com>
> wrote:
>
>>Amy Lee wrote:
>>
>>> Hello,
>>>
>>> Here's the data I use.
>>>
>>> ath-MIR166f Marcal1-PA 100.00 18 0 0 58 75 2226 2243 0.008 36.2
>>> dme-mir-278 GABA-B-R3-PA 100.00 18 0 0 64 81 282 265 0.007 36.2
>>> dme-mir-100 CG6630-PA 100.00 19 0 0 28 46 5108 5126 0.002 38.2
>>> cbr-mir-268 nop5-PA 95.65 23 1 0 57 79 1428 1406 0.001 38.2
>>> mmu-mir-199a-2 CG7806-PA 100.00 18 0 0 8 25 107 124 0.008 36.2
>>> rno-mir-320 CG15161-PA 100.00 18 0 0 2 19 265 248 0.006 36.2
>>>
>>> And at every line the contents are separated by tab, and I used
>>> following syntax to get the first, second columns.
>>>
>>> my $query_seq = (split /\t/)[0];
>>> my $sub_seq = (split /\t/)[1];
>>>
>>> But the output is quite odd. The output is
>>>
>>> Marcal1-PA Marcal1-PA
>>> GABA-B-R3-PA GABA-B-R3-PA
>>> CG6630-PA CG6630-PA
>>> nop5-PA nop5-PA
>>> CG7806-PA CG7806-PA
>>> CG15161-PA CG15161-PA
>>>
>>> So could tell me how to fix that? Thanks very much.
>>>
>>> Amy
>>
>>That inconsistent output would be likely caused by some fields not
>>being separated by an actual tab character, but more than one white
>>space. If that's a risk, it's safer to just use \s+ in place of \t+,
>>because it will cover both white space and tab separations of the
>>fields.
>>
>>Also, you can save some typing, and just write it as:
>>my ($query_seq, $sub_seq) = (split /\s+/)[0,1];
> ^^^^
> won't work, spaces in fields
>>
>>I assume you're splitting on $_ somewhere in your code.
>
> sln
Where were there spaces in their fields in their example? And, tabs
won't work either, if they really don't have tabs as the delimiters --
which is why I offered a solution for that in another post.
--
Tim Greer, CEO/Founder/CTO, BurlyHost.com, Inc.
Shared Hosting, Reseller Hosting, Dedicated & Semi-Dedicated servers
and Custom Hosting. 24/7 support, 30 day guarantee, secure servers.
Industry's most experienced staff! -- Web Hosting With Muscle!
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2009 11:54:50 +0200
From: Eric Pozharski <whynot@pozharski.name>
Subject: Re: Help: Cannot acquire data by split
Message-Id: <slrngmop8n.d5i.whynot@orphan.zombinet>
On 2009-01-12, Tim Greer <tim@burlyhost.com> wrote:
> sln@netherlands.com wrote:
>
*SKIP*
>>
>> Sorry, I grabbed Tad's reply it was a mistake, thought I had Amy's
>> original. But, this could be even quicker:
>> ($element1,$element2) = /\s*([^\t]+)\s+([^\t]+)\s*/;
>>
>> sln
>
> I'd imagine that the split example will actually be about the same in
> efficiency as the regex, since it's splitting at [0,1] and, in fact,
> I'd wager that the split method in the examples would probably be
> faster. Feel free to benchmark. I'm betting that be it iterations of
> a million times (or even 10 million), that split would probably be
> slightly faster than the regex. Also, you probably want to use /^\s*
> to start your regex (not that it'll matter for speed as much as the
> obvious reason), and use \s in place of \t, since the inconsistent
> results will be due to non tabs in the original example.
Remebering strange benchmarks the previous time, I've done it thrice --
all the same (for me)
perl -wle '
use Benchmark qw|countit cmpthese timethese|;
my $lit = qq{abc\txyz};
my $t = timethese 1_000_000, {
split => sub { @arr = split /\t/, $lit; },
plugged => sub { @arr = $lit =~ /\s*([^\t]+)\s+([^\t]+)\s*/; },
unplugged => sub { @arr = $lit =~ /(\S+)\s+(\S+)/; }, };
cmpthese $t;
'
Benchmark:
timing 1000000 iterations of
plugged, split, unplugged
...
plugged: 12 wallclock secs (10.65 usr + 0.03 sys = 10.68 CPU) @
93632.96/s (n=1000000)
split: 5 wallclock secs ( 3.04 usr + 0.01 sys = 3.05 CPU) @
327868.85/s (n=1000000)
unplugged: 13 wallclock secs ( 9.83 usr + 0.03 sys = 9.86 CPU) @
101419.88/s (n=1000000)
Rate plugged unplugged split
plugged 93633/s -- -8% -71%
unplugged 101420/s 8% -- -69%
split 327869/s 250% 223% --
--
Torvalds' goal for Linux is very simple: World Domination
Stallman's goal for GNU is even simpler: Freedom
------------------------------
Date: 13 Jan 2009 05:23:28 GMT
From: ram@zedat.fu-berlin.de (Stefan Ram)
Subject: How do I call Rakudo?
Message-Id: <Rakudo-20090113061136@ram.dialup.fu-berlin.de>
I have downloaded »strawberry perl« and started the »portable
padre« IDE. I enabled the Perl6 plugin from the IDE plugin
manager and tried to run a Perl 6 script from the IDE.
It was missing a "PCT.PBC" file. So I installed Parrot 0.8.2
into the directory »C:\GABOR\PARROT«. Now, the IDE finds the
file, there is no more error reported, but also no output (the
Perl 6 script should output someting). When I use »F5« to
start the script, the output window remains empty, and there
also is no error message in the IDE>
The console shows several messages »NOT A DIBSECITON«.
Possible, this is an IDE-related problem. I seem to have the
necessary software. How can I invoke Rakudo from the command
line instead of the »padre« IDE?
When I call the perl.exe that comes with rakudo to execute a
Perl 6 script, it just says »Perl v6.0.0 required--this is
only v5.10.0«.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2009 05:42:24 GMT
From: merlyn@stonehenge.com (Randal Schwartz)
Subject: new CPAN modules on Tue Jan 13 2009
Message-Id: <KDEAIo.1tMr@zorch.sf-bay.org>
The following modules have recently been added to or updated in the
Comprehensive Perl Archive Network (CPAN). You can install them using the
instructions in the 'perlmodinstall' page included with your Perl
distribution.
AI-Evolve-Befunge-0.01
http://search.cpan.org/~infinoid/AI-Evolve-Befunge-0.01/
practical evolution of Befunge AI programs
----
Acme-SubstituteSubs-0.01
http://search.cpan.org/~swalters/Acme-SubstituteSubs-0.01/
Replace subroutines at run-time
----
Acme-SubstituteSubs-0.02
http://search.cpan.org/~swalters/Acme-SubstituteSubs-0.02/
Replace subroutines at run-time
----
Biblio-Thesaurus-ModRewrite-0.01
http://search.cpan.org/~smash/Biblio-Thesaurus-ModRewrite-0.01/
The great new Biblio::Thesaurus::ModRewrite!
----
Bio-Das-Lite-1.061
http://search.cpan.org/~rpettett/Bio-Das-Lite-1.061/
Perl extension for the DAS (HTTP+XML) Protocol (http://biodas.org/)
----
CPAN-Testers-Data-Generator-0.34
http://search.cpan.org/~barbie/CPAN-Testers-Data-Generator-0.34/
Download and summarize CPAN Testers data
----
CPAN-Testers-WWW-Statistics-0.54
http://search.cpan.org/~barbie/CPAN-Testers-WWW-Statistics-0.54/
CPAN Testers Statistics website.
----
Catalyst-Plugin-DebugCookie-0.999003
http://search.cpan.org/~jgoulah/Catalyst-Plugin-DebugCookie-0.999003/
Catalyst plugin to turn on debug when a secure cookie and a query param are set
----
Catalyst-Runtime-5.7099_04
http://search.cpan.org/~mramberg/Catalyst-Runtime-5.7099_04/
The Catalyst Framework Runtime
----
CatalystX-CRUD-0.38
http://search.cpan.org/~karman/CatalystX-CRUD-0.38/
CRUD framework for Catalyst applications
----
Data-Dump-1.14
http://search.cpan.org/~gaas/Data-Dump-1.14/
Pretty printing of data structures
----
Data-TreeDumper-Utils-0.01.2
http://search.cpan.org/~nkh/Data-TreeDumper-Utils-0.01.2/
A selection of utilities to use with Data::TreeDumper
----
File-Path-Collapse-0.01.4
http://search.cpan.org/~nkh/File-Path-Collapse-0.01.4/
Collapses a path as much as possible
----
Finance-Pershing-StandardFiles-0.002000
http://search.cpan.org/~groditi/Finance-Pershing-StandardFiles-0.002000/
Tools for Interfacing With Pershing Standard Files
----
GBrowse-1.986
http://search.cpan.org/~lds/GBrowse-1.986/
----
Geo-Coder-Yahoo-0.43
http://search.cpan.org/~abh/Geo-Coder-Yahoo-0.43/
Geocode addresses with the Yahoo! API
----
Google-Code-Upload-0.02
http://search.cpan.org/~fayland/Google-Code-Upload-0.02/
uploading files to a Google Code project.
----
HTML-FormHandler-0.01
http://search.cpan.org/~gshank/HTML-FormHandler-0.01/
validate and process form data
----
KiokuDB-0.20
http://search.cpan.org/~nuffin/KiokuDB-0.20/
Object Graph storage engine
----
KiokuDB-Backend-BDB-0.11
http://search.cpan.org/~nuffin/KiokuDB-Backend-BDB-0.11/
BerkeleyDB backend for KiokuDB.
----
Lingua-Any-Numbers-0.24
http://search.cpan.org/~burak/Lingua-Any-Numbers-0.24/
Converts numbers into (any available language) string.
----
MOSES-MOBY-0.87
http://search.cpan.org/~ekawas/MOSES-MOBY-0.87/
Perl extension for the automatic generation of BioMOBY web services
----
Module-Build-0.3101
http://search.cpan.org/~ewilhelm/Module-Build-0.3101/
Build and install Perl modules
----
Module-Text-Template-Build-0.03.5
http://search.cpan.org/~nkh/Module-Text-Template-Build-0.03.5/
Create a module based on a template to use with Module::Build
----
MogileFS-Utils-2.14
http://search.cpan.org/~dormando/MogileFS-Utils-2.14/
Command line utilities for the MogileFS distributed file system.
----
MouseX-Param-0.01
http://search.cpan.org/~masaki/MouseX-Param-0.01/
A Mouse role for manipulating params
----
MouseX-Types-DateTime-0.01
http://search.cpan.org/~masaki/MouseX-Types-DateTime-0.01/
A DateTime type library for Mouse
----
Net-EPP-0.12
http://search.cpan.org/~gbrown/Net-EPP-0.12/
----
Net-Server-Framework-1.1
http://search.cpan.org/~norbu/Net-Server-Framework-1.1/
a small framework arounf the famous Net::Server libs
----
Net-Server-Framework-1.2
http://search.cpan.org/~norbu/Net-Server-Framework-1.2/
an event driven infrastructure around Net::Server
----
Padre-Plugin-SpellCheck-0.01_01
http://search.cpan.org/~fayland/Padre-Plugin-SpellCheck-0.01_01/
Spell Check in Padre
----
Parse-Marpa-1.001_001
http://search.cpan.org/~jkegl/Parse-Marpa-1.001_001/
Generate Parsers from any BNF grammar
----
RDF-Simple-Serialiser-Notation3-1.016
http://search.cpan.org/~mthurn/RDF-Simple-Serialiser-Notation3-1.016/
Output RDF triples in Notation3 format
----
Rose-DBx-Object-Renderer-0.40
http://search.cpan.org/~danny/Rose-DBx-Object-Renderer-0.40/
Web UI Rendering for Rose::DB::Object
----
Scope-Upper-0.05
http://search.cpan.org/~vpit/Scope-Upper-0.05/
Act on upper scopes.
----
Sys-Mmap-Simple-0.06
http://search.cpan.org/~leont/Sys-Mmap-Simple-0.06/
Memory mapping made simple and safe.
----
Term-Bash-Completion-Generator-0.01.6
http://search.cpan.org/~nkh/Term-Bash-Completion-Generator-0.01.6/
Generate bash completion scripts
----
Tk-PathEntry-3.01
http://search.cpan.org/~srezic/Tk-PathEntry-3.01/
Entry widget for selecting paths with completion
----
Tkx-ROText-0.03
http://search.cpan.org/~mjcarman/Tkx-ROText-0.03/
Tkx text widget that supports a read-only state.
----
UMLS-Interface-0.07
http://search.cpan.org/~btmcinnes/UMLS-Interface-0.07/
README
----
UMLS-Similarity-0.01
http://search.cpan.org/~btmcinnes/UMLS-Similarity-0.01/
This is a suite of Perl modules that implements a number of measures of semantic relatedness. These algorithms use a backend taxonomy of concepts to generate relatedness scores between concepts.
----
Unicode-Property-XS-0.80
http://search.cpan.org/~mindos/Unicode-Property-XS-0.80/
Unicode properties implemented by lookup table in C code.
----
WWW-Mechanize-1.54
http://search.cpan.org/~petdance/WWW-Mechanize-1.54/
Handy web browsing in a Perl object
----
WWW-PivotalTracker-0.14
http://search.cpan.org/~jhelwig/WWW-PivotalTracker-0.14/
Functional interface to Pivotal Tracker <http://www.pivotaltracker.com/>
----
WWW-TV-0.12
http://search.cpan.org/~tigris/WWW-TV-0.12/
Parse TV.com for information about TV shows.
----
WWW-YahooJapan-KanaAddress-0.1.3
http://search.cpan.org/~hiratara/WWW-YahooJapan-KanaAddress-0.1.3/
translating the address in Japan into kana.
----
Workflow-0.32_8
http://search.cpan.org/~jonasbn/Workflow-0.32_8/
Simple, flexible system to implement workflows
----
XML-RSS-1.43
http://search.cpan.org/~shlomif/XML-RSS-1.43/
creates and updates RSS files
----
YAML-LibYAML-0.31
http://search.cpan.org/~nuffin/YAML-LibYAML-0.31/
----
YAML-LibYAML-0.32
http://search.cpan.org/~nuffin/YAML-LibYAML-0.32/
----
libwww-perl-5.823
http://search.cpan.org/~gaas/libwww-perl-5.823/
----
minismokebox-0.02
http://search.cpan.org/~bingos/minismokebox-0.02/
a small lightweight SmokeBox
----
minismokebox-0.04
http://search.cpan.org/~bingos/minismokebox-0.04/
a small lightweight SmokeBox
----
mogilefs-server-2.30
http://search.cpan.org/~dormando/mogilefs-server-2.30/
----
xcruciate-004
http://search.cpan.org/~melonman/xcruciate-004/
----
xcruciate-unitconfig-004
http://search.cpan.org/~melonman/xcruciate-unitconfig-004/
----
xcruciate-utils-004
http://search.cpan.org/~melonman/xcruciate-utils-004/
----
xcruciate-xcruciateconfig-004
http://search.cpan.org/~melonman/xcruciate-xcruciateconfig-004/
If you're an author of one of these modules, please submit a detailed
announcement to comp.lang.perl.announce, and we'll pass it along.
This message was generated by a Perl program described in my Linux
Magazine column, which can be found on-line (along with more than
200 other freely available past column articles) at
http://www.stonehenge.com/merlyn/LinuxMag/col82.html
print "Just another Perl hacker," # the original
--
Randal L. Schwartz - Stonehenge Consulting Services, Inc. - +1 503 777 0095
<merlyn@stonehenge.com> <URL:http://www.stonehenge.com/merlyn/>
Smalltalk/Perl/Unix consulting, Technical writing, Comedy, etc. etc.
See http://methodsandmessages.vox.com/ for Smalltalk and Seaside discussion
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2009 11:29:26 +0200
From: Eric Pozharski <whynot@pozharski.name>
Subject: Re: opening a file
Message-Id: <slrngmonp3.d5i.whynot@orphan.zombinet>
On 2009-01-12, George <george@example.invalid> wrote:
> On Sun, 11 Jan 2009 22:38:58 -0600, Tad J McClellan wrote:
*SKIP*
>>> How does perl.exe know whether the third argument is an expression or a
>>> reference?
>>
>>
>> perldoc -f ref
>
> ref EXPR
> ref Returns a non-empty string if EXPR is a reference, the empty
> string otherwise. If EXPR is not specified, $_ will be used.
> The value returned depends on the type of thing the reference is a
> reference to. Builtin types include:
> # end excerpt
>
> I don't see this at all.
>
> open FILEHANDLE,MODE,EXPR
> open FILEHANDLE,MODE,REFERENCE
>
> Is this the difference between:
>
> open(my $fh, '<', 'eph3.txt');
> open(my $fh, '<', $filename);
> ?
C<'eph3.txt'> is literal; C<$filename> is scalar; both are expressions;
expressions aren't limited to scalars and literals.
C<perldoc perlglossary> has more.
--
Torvalds' goal for Linux is very simple: World Domination
Stallman's goal for GNU is even simpler: Freedom
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2009 08:13:24 GMT
From: tadmc@seesig.invalid
Subject: Posting Guidelines for comp.lang.perl.misc ($Revision: 1.8 $)
Message-Id: <E2Yal.10294$W06.4099@flpi148.ffdc.sbc.com>
Outline
Before posting to comp.lang.perl.misc
Must
- Check the Perl Frequently Asked Questions (FAQ)
- Check the other standard Perl docs (*.pod)
Really Really Should
- Lurk for a while before posting
- Search a Usenet archive
If You Like
- Check Other Resources
Posting to comp.lang.perl.misc
Is there a better place to ask your question?
- Question should be about Perl, not about the application area
How to participate (post) in the clpmisc community
- Carefully choose the contents of your Subject header
- Use an effective followup style
- Speak Perl rather than English, when possible
- Ask perl to help you
- Do not re-type Perl code
- Provide enough information
- Do not provide too much information
- Do not post binaries, HTML, or MIME
Social faux pas to avoid
- Asking a Frequently Asked Question
- Asking a question easily answered by a cursory doc search
- Asking for emailed answers
- Beware of saying "doesn't work"
- Sending a "stealth" Cc copy
Be extra cautious when you get upset
- Count to ten before composing a followup when you are upset
- Count to ten after composing and before posting when you are upset
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Posting Guidelines for comp.lang.perl.misc ($Revision: 1.8 $)
This newsgroup, commonly called clpmisc, is a technical newsgroup
intended to be used for discussion of Perl related issues (except job
postings), whether it be comments or questions.
As you would expect, clpmisc discussions are usually very technical in
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The article at:
http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html
describes how to get answers from technical people in general.
This article describes things that you should, and should not, do to
increase your chances of getting an answer to your Perl question. It is
available in POD, HTML and plain text formats at:
http://www.rehabitation.com/clpmisc.shtml
For more information about netiquette in general, see the "Netiquette
Guidelines" at:
http://andrew2.andrew.cmu.edu/rfc/rfc1855.html
A note to newsgroup "regulars":
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A note about technical terms used here:
In this document, we use words like "must" and "should" as
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Do *NOT* send email to the maintainer of these guidelines. It will be
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Before posting to comp.lang.perl.misc
Must
This section describes things that you *must* do before posting to
clpmisc, in order to maximize your chances of getting meaningful replies
to your inquiry and to avoid getting flamed for being lazy and trying to
have others do your work.
The perl distribution includes documentation that is copied to your hard
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things up in that (and other) documentation named 'perldoc'.
You should either find out where the docs got installed on your system,
or use perldoc to find them for you. Type "perldoc perldoc" to learn how
to use perldoc itself. Type "perldoc perl" to start reading Perl's
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Check the Perl Frequently Asked Questions (FAQ)
Checking the FAQ before posting is required in Big 8 newsgroups in
general, there is nothing clpmisc-specific about this requirement.
You are expected to do this in nearly all newsgroups.
You can use the "-q" switch with perldoc to do a word search of the
questions in the Perl FAQs.
Check the other standard Perl docs (*.pod)
The perl distribution comes with much more documentation than is
available for most other newsgroups, so in clpmisc you should also
see if you can find an answer in the other (non-FAQ) standard docs
before posting.
It is *not* required, or even expected, that you actually *read* all of
Perl's standard docs, only that you spend a few minutes searching them
before posting.
Try doing a word-search in the standard docs for some words/phrases
taken from your problem statement or from your very carefully worded
"Subject:" header.
Really Really Should
This section describes things that you *really should* do before posting
to clpmisc.
Lurk for a while before posting
This is very important and expected in all newsgroups. Lurking means
to monitor a newsgroup for a period to become familiar with local
customs. Each newsgroup has specific customs and rituals. Knowing
these before you participate will help avoid embarrassing social
situations. Consider yourself to be a foreigner at first!
Search a Usenet archive
There are tens of thousands of Perl programmers. It is very likely
that your question has already been asked (and answered). See if you
can find where it has already been answered.
One such searchable archive is:
http://groups.google.com/advanced_group_search
If You Like
This section describes things that you *can* do before posting to
clpmisc.
Check Other Resources
You may want to check in books or on web sites to see if you can
find the answer to your question.
But you need to consider the source of such information: there are a
lot of very poor Perl books and web sites, and several good ones
too, of course.
Posting to comp.lang.perl.misc
There can be 200 messages in clpmisc in a single day. Nobody is going to
read every article. They must decide somehow which articles they are
going to read, and which they will skip.
Your post is in competition with 199 other posts. You need to "win"
before a person who can help you will even read your question.
These sections describe how you can help keep your article from being
one of the "skipped" ones.
Is there a better place to ask your question?
Question should be about Perl, not about the application area
It can be difficult to separate out where your problem really is,
but you should make a conscious effort to post to the most
applicable newsgroup. That is, after all, where you are the most
likely to find the people who know how to answer your question.
Being able to "partition" a problem is an essential skill for
effectively troubleshooting programming problems. If you don't get
that right, you end up looking for answers in the wrong places.
It should be understood that you may not know that the root of your
problem is not Perl-related (the two most frequent ones are CGI and
Operating System related), so off-topic postings will happen from
time to time. Be gracious when someone helps you find a better place
to ask your question by pointing you to a more applicable newsgroup.
How to participate (post) in the clpmisc community
Carefully choose the contents of your Subject header
You have 40 precious characters of Subject to win out and be one of
the posts that gets read. Don't waste them. Take care while
composing them, they are the key that opens the door to getting an
answer.
Spend them indicating what aspect of Perl others will find if they
should decide to read your article.
Do not spend them indicating "experience level" (guru, newbie...).
Do not spend them pleading (please read, urgent, help!...).
Do not spend them on non-Subjects (Perl question, one-word
Subject...)
For more information on choosing a Subject see "Choosing Good
Subject Lines":
http://www.cpan.org/authors/id/D/DM/DMR/subjects.post
Part of the beauty of newsgroup dynamics, is that you can contribute
to the community with your very first post! If your choice of
Subject leads a fellow Perler to find the thread you are starting,
then even asking a question helps us all.
Use an effective followup style
When composing a followup, quote only enough text to establish the
context for the comments that you will add. Always indicate who
wrote the quoted material. Never quote an entire article. Never
quote a .signature (unless that is what you are commenting on).
Intersperse your comments *following* each section of quoted text to
which they relate. Unappreciated followup styles are referred to as
"top-posting", "Jeopardy" (because the answer comes before the
question), or "TOFU" (Text Over, Fullquote Under).
Reversing the chronology of the dialog makes it much harder to
understand (some folks won't even read it if written in that style).
For more information on quoting style, see:
http://web.presby.edu/~nnqadmin/nnq/nquote.html
Speak Perl rather than English, when possible
Perl is much more precise than natural language. Saying it in Perl
instead will avoid misunderstanding your question or problem.
Do not say: I have variable with "foo\tbar" in it.
Instead say: I have $var = "foo\tbar", or I have $var = 'foo\tbar',
or I have $var = <DATA> (and show the data line).
Ask perl to help you
You can ask perl itself to help you find common programming mistakes
by doing two things: enable warnings (perldoc warnings) and enable
"strict"ures (perldoc strict).
You should not bother the hundreds/thousands of readers of the
newsgroup without first seeing if a machine can help you find your
problem. It is demeaning to be asked to do the work of a machine. It
will annoy the readers of your article.
You can look up any of the messages that perl might issue to find
out what the message means and how to resolve the potential mistake
(perldoc perldiag). If you would like perl to look them up for you,
you can put "use diagnostics;" near the top of your program.
Do not re-type Perl code
Use copy/paste or your editor's "import" function rather than
attempting to type in your code. If you make a typo you will get
followups about your typos instead of about the question you are
trying to get answered.
Provide enough information
If you do the things in this item, you will have an Extremely Good
chance of getting people to try and help you with your problem!
These features are a really big bonus toward your question winning
out over all of the other posts that you are competing with.
First make a short (less than 20-30 lines) and *complete* program
that illustrates the problem you are having. People should be able
to run your program by copy/pasting the code from your article. (You
will find that doing this step very often reveals your problem
directly. Leading to an answer much more quickly and reliably than
posting to Usenet.)
Describe *precisely* the input to your program. Also provide example
input data for your program. If you need to show file input, use the
__DATA__ token (perldata.pod) to provide the file contents inside of
your Perl program.
Show the output (including the verbatim text of any messages) of
your program.
Describe how you want the output to be different from what you are
getting.
If you have no idea at all of how to code up your situation, be sure
to at least describe the 2 things that you *do* know: input and
desired output.
Do not provide too much information
Do not just post your entire program for debugging. Most especially
do not post someone *else's* entire program.
Do not post binaries, HTML, or MIME
clpmisc is a text only newsgroup. If you have images or binaries
that explain your question, put them in a publically accessible
place (like a Web server) and provide a pointer to that location. If
you include code, cut and paste it directly in the message body.
Don't attach anything to the message. Don't post vcards or HTML.
Many people (and even some Usenet servers) will automatically filter
out such messages. Many people will not be able to easily read your
post. Plain text is something everyone can read.
Social faux pas to avoid
The first two below are symptoms of lots of FAQ asking here in clpmisc.
It happens so often that folks will assume that it is happening yet
again. If you have looked but not found, or found but didn't understand
the docs, say so in your article.
Asking a Frequently Asked Question
It should be understood that you may have missed the applicable FAQ
when you checked, which is not a big deal. But if the Frequently
Asked Question is worded similar to your question, folks will assume
that you did not look at all. Don't become indignant at pointers to
the FAQ, particularly if it solves your problem.
Asking a question easily answered by a cursory doc search
If folks think you have not even tried the obvious step of reading
the docs applicable to your problem, they are likely to become
annoyed.
If you are flamed for not checking when you *did* check, then just
shrug it off (and take the answer that you got).
Asking for emailed answers
Emailed answers benefit one person. Posted answers benefit the
entire community. If folks can take the time to answer your
question, then you can take the time to go get the answer in the
same place where you asked the question.
It is OK to ask for a *copy* of the answer to be emailed, but many
will ignore such requests anyway. If you munge your address, you
should never expect (or ask) to get email in response to a Usenet
post.
Ask the question here, get the answer here (maybe).
Beware of saying "doesn't work"
This is a "red flag" phrase. If you find yourself writing that,
pause and see if you can't describe what is not working without
saying "doesn't work". That is, describe how it is not what you
want.
Sending a "stealth" Cc copy
A "stealth Cc" is when you both email and post a reply without
indicating *in the body* that you are doing so.
Be extra cautious when you get upset
Count to ten before composing a followup when you are upset
This is recommended in all Usenet newsgroups. Here in clpmisc, most
flaming sub-threads are not about any feature of Perl at all! They
are most often for what was seen as a breach of netiquette. If you
have lurked for a bit, then you will know what is expected and won't
make such posts in the first place.
But if you get upset, wait a while before writing your followup. I
recommend waiting at least 30 minutes.
Count to ten after composing and before posting when you are upset
After you have written your followup, wait *another* 30 minutes
before committing yourself by posting it. You cannot take it back
once it has been said.
AUTHOR
Tad McClellan and many others on the comp.lang.perl.misc newsgroup.
--
Tad McClellan
email: perl -le "print scalar reverse qq/moc.noitatibaher\100cmdat/"
------------------------------
Date: 6 Apr 2001 21:33:47 GMT (Last modified)
From: Perl-Users-Request@ruby.oce.orst.edu (Perl-Users-Digest Admin)
Subject: Digest Administrivia (Last modified: 6 Apr 01)
Message-Id: <null>
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End of Perl-Users Digest V11 Issue 2120
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