[30845] in Perl-Users-Digest
Perl-Users Digest, Issue: 2090 Volume: 11
daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (Perl-Users Digest)
Thu Jan 1 03:09:42 2009
Date: Thu, 1 Jan 2009 00:09:08 -0800 (PST)
From: Perl-Users Digest <Perl-Users-Request@ruby.OCE.ORST.EDU>
To: Perl-Users@ruby.OCE.ORST.EDU (Perl-Users Digest)
Perl-Users Digest Thu, 1 Jan 2009 Volume: 11 Number: 2090
Today's topics:
Re: FAQ 2.10 Where should I post source code? sln@netherlands.com
Happy New Years to all Perl Misc'ers !!! sln@netherlands.com
Re: hash table usage questions sln@netherlands.com
Re: hash table usage questions sln@netherlands.com
Re: hash table usage questions sln@netherlands.com
Re: hash table usage questions sln@netherlands.com
Re: hash table usage questions <tim@burlyhost.com>
Re: hash table usage questions sln@netherlands.com
Re: hash table usage questions <tim@burlyhost.com>
Re: hash table usage questions <tadmc@seesig.invalid>
new CPAN modules on Thu Jan 1 2009 (Randal Schwartz)
Re: searching for franken <george@example.invalid>
Re: searching for franken <george@example.invalid>
Re: searching for franken sln@netherlands.com
Re: Why not Ruby? <kentilton@gmail.com>
Re: Why not Ruby? sln@netherlands.com
Re: Why not Ruby? <rt8396@gmail.com>
Re: Why not Ruby? <jasonrumney@gmail.com>
Digest Administrivia (Last modified: 6 Apr 01) (Perl-Users-Digest Admin)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Thu, 01 Jan 2009 04:04:24 GMT
From: sln@netherlands.com
Subject: Re: FAQ 2.10 Where should I post source code?
Message-Id: <mnfol49rleth9lbppqfhsvhqenel0mtejk@4ax.com>
On Wed, 31 Dec 2008 18:03:01 -0800, PerlFAQ Server <brian@stonehenge.com> wrote:
>This is an excerpt from the latest version perlfaq2.pod, which
>comes with the standard Perl distribution. These postings aim to
>reduce the number of repeated questions as well as allow the community
>to review and update the answers. The latest version of the complete
>perlfaq is at http://faq.perl.org .
>
>--------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>2.10: Where should I post source code?
>
> You should post source code to whichever group is most appropriate, but
> feel free to cross-post to comp.lang.perl.misc. If you want to
> cross-post to alt.sources, please make sure it follows their posting
> standards, including setting the Followup-To header line to NOT include
> alt.sources; see their FAQ ( http://www.faqs.org/faqs/alt-sources-intro/
> ) for details.
>
> If you're just looking for software, first use Google (
> http://www.google.com ), Google's usenet search interface (
> http://groups.google.com ), and CPAN Search ( http://search.cpan.org ).
> This is faster and more productive than just posting a request.
>
>
>
Post all your souce code to.. trashbin.com
sln
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 31 Dec 2008 22:29:19 GMT
From: sln@netherlands.com
Subject: Happy New Years to all Perl Misc'ers !!!
Message-Id: <cfsnl4tpg6u0p9bloktguakouqgd21407h@4ax.com>
@ 2009, good luck to you all !!
sln
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 31 Dec 2008 21:12:15 GMT
From: sln@netherlands.com
Subject: Re: hash table usage questions
Message-Id: <dqnnl4db6msmdvcr3ms6phjnsak6j56na6@4ax.com>
On Tue, 30 Dec 2008 17:15:12 -0600, Tad J McClellan <tadmc@seesig.invalid> wrote:
>freesoft12@gmail.com <freesoft12@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>[ snip: sln has gone off his meds again ]
>
>
>> Your asinine answers to my questions and to other people's posts to
>> this newsgroup (i checked) spoils the great work done by others in
>> teaching Perl to beginners.
>
>
>Simply ignore the jackoffs and pay attention to the other
jackoffs
>s.
>
>
>> I am going to recommend to this group's moderator that they cancel
>> your membership.
>
I joined Tad McClellan's group, or will shortly
>
>Neither of those are possible, as there are no moderators for
>this newsgroup, and there is no concept of "membership".
>
>That is how most Usenet newgroups operate.
Whats his raw msg composition?
I think he knows that.
sln
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 31 Dec 2008 21:16:51 GMT
From: sln@netherlands.com
Subject: Re: hash table usage questions
Message-Id: <17onl4h89gm7dcgiqqdlhg9nlnrmrjejiq@4ax.com>
On Tue, 30 Dec 2008 09:42:50 -0800, Jürgen Exner <jurgenex@hotmail.com> wrote:
>"freesoft12@gmail.com" <freesoft12@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> You obviously need to learn Perl from the beginner position.
>
>Whom are you quoting here? It has been a proven custom for over 2
>decades to name the original author because in Usenet you cannot assume
>that the article you are replying to is visible to someone else.
>
>>I am going to recommend to this group's moderator
>
>That may be difficult because CLP is not moderated.
>
>> that they cancel your membership.
>
>That may be difficult, too, because there is no membership in Usenet.
>
>>Your attitude is detrimental for beginners learning
>>Perl from this newsgroup.
>
>Can't comment on that because I can't tell whom you are talking about.
>But yes, there are a few nutcases trolling in this NG, just like in
>pretty much any other NG. Luckily they are easy to identify and just as
>easy to filter.
>
>jue
It may be difficult to understand what it is the OP is trying to
get here isin't it.
I didn't know this was a thread on usenet usage. Not it is I guess.
sln
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 31 Dec 2008 21:21:10 GMT
From: sln@netherlands.com
Subject: Re: hash table usage questions
Message-Id: <4gonl49bm68mc8ogmsvpve1bqgjs4p0e9r@4ax.com>
On Tue, 30 Dec 2008 09:15:06 -0600, Ted Zlatanov <tzz@lifelogs.com> wrote:
>On Mon, 29 Dec 2008 17:02:56 -0800 (PST) "freesoft12@gmail.com" <freesoft12@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>fc> I am storing a large number of file paths into a hash table's keys
>fc> (to avoid duplicate paths) with well-known extensions like .cc,
>fc> .cpp, .h,.hpp. If any of the paths is a symbolic link then the link
>fc> is stored in the value field.
>
>By "large" do you mean thousands (A) or millions (B)?
>
>fc> My questions are:
>
>fc> 1) Is a custom data structure better than using a hash to store the
>fc> file paths?
>
>A: no
>
>B: yes, consider nested hash tables with one level per directory. You
>can also use SQLite to manage the data in a single DB file.
>
>fc> 2) I want to remove some of the files from the hash table that don't
>fc> match a regular expression (say I am only interested in *.cc files)
>fc> a) Is there a smart way to apply this regular expression on the hash
>fc> table? My current solution iterates over each item in the hash table
>fc> and then stores the keys that don't match the regex in a separate
>fc> list. I then iterate over that list and remove each key from the
>fc> hash table.
>
>A: use the solutions others have posted
>
>B: you'll need a function to walk the nested hash tables and call a
>check function for each entry. Accumulate the results into a temporary
>list and delete it (if you worry that the temporary list will grow too
>large, delete the entries in place). With SQLite this is a trivial SQL
>statement.
>
>Ted
Can you post a fully working example so that we can test all of your
"verbage"?
sln
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 31 Dec 2008 21:32:46 GMT
From: sln@netherlands.com
Subject: Re: hash table usage questions
Message-Id: <o2pnl4h8i9hd7sthhauejl03cm1efl8oi4@4ax.com>
On Tue, 30 Dec 2008 10:49:52 -0800, Tim Greer <tim@burlyhost.com> wrote:
>Ted Zlatanov wrote:
>
>> On Tue, 30 Dec 2008 01:34:43 GMT sln@netherlands.com wrote:
>>
>> s> Why don't you clearly state what your trying to do instead of
>> s> grabbing straws and spewing all the buzzwords in the book.
>>
>> There was nothing in the OP's questions that warranted your rudeness.
>>
>> s> Not alot of people want to do your work and not get paid for it.
>> Can s> you do my work for me?
>>
>> You, apparently, assume your time and intelligence are too precious to
>> waste helping people for free. This is not the right forum for you.
>>
>> Ted
>
>Unfortunately, this is the norm with that poster. Sometimes I get
>confused, because (rarely) he actually does try and offer help (when
>he's not trying to pretend he's the smartest, most important person
>here... or trying to push his ridiculous parsing engine). Sometimes...
>I have hope (but then I see his posts like the one you've quoted).
Simple, I don't pretend to be anything, and magically, I'm not.
Should I pretend to be you, magically I'm nothing.
sln
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 31 Dec 2008 13:49:25 -0800
From: Tim Greer <tim@burlyhost.com>
Subject: Re: hash table usage questions
Message-Id: <GNR6l.82505$sC4.51308@newsfe04.iad>
sln@netherlands.com wrote:
> Simple, I don't pretend to be anything, and magically, I'm not.
> Should I pretend to be you, magically I'm nothing.
Well, reply that doesn't make sense. Also, please consider a line break
before you start your reply posts, so everything doesn't appear jumbled
together.
--
Tim Greer, CEO/Founder/CTO, BurlyHost.com, Inc.
Shared Hosting, Reseller Hosting, Dedicated & Semi-Dedicated servers
and Custom Hosting. 24/7 support, 30 day guarantee, secure servers.
Industry's most experienced staff! -- Web Hosting With Muscle!
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 31 Dec 2008 22:26:57 GMT
From: sln@netherlands.com
Subject: Re: hash table usage questions
Message-Id: <lcsnl41vnkc1t3u6ktbtg13gil5hgl95vb@4ax.com>
On Wed, 31 Dec 2008 13:49:25 -0800, Tim Greer <tim@burlyhost.com> wrote:
>sln@netherlands.com wrote:
>
>> Simple, I don't pretend to be anything, and magically, I'm not.
>> Should I pretend to be you, magically I'm nothing.
>
>Well, reply that doesn't make sense. Also, please consider a line break
>before you start your reply posts, so everything doesn't appear jumbled
>together.
Happy New Year Tim !!!
sln
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 31 Dec 2008 15:26:04 -0800
From: Tim Greer <tim@burlyhost.com>
Subject: Re: hash table usage questions
Message-Id: <gcT6l.4952$Dt1.3192@newsfe05.iad>
sln@netherlands.com wrote:
> On Wed, 31 Dec 2008 13:49:25 -0800, Tim Greer <tim@burlyhost.com>
> wrote:
>
>>sln@netherlands.com wrote:
>>
>>> Simple, I don't pretend to be anything, and magically, I'm not.
>>> Should I pretend to be you, magically I'm nothing.
>>
>>Well, reply that doesn't make sense. Also, please consider a line
>>break before you start your reply posts, so everything doesn't appear
>>jumbled together.
>
> Happy New Year Tim !!!
>
> sln
You, too!
--
Tim Greer, CEO/Founder/CTO, BurlyHost.com, Inc.
Shared Hosting, Reseller Hosting, Dedicated & Semi-Dedicated servers
and Custom Hosting. 24/7 support, 30 day guarantee, secure servers.
Industry's most experienced staff! -- Web Hosting With Muscle!
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 31 Dec 2008 22:42:52 -0600
From: Tad J McClellan <tadmc@seesig.invalid>
Subject: Re: hash table usage questions
Message-Id: <slrngloiec.82m.tadmc@tadmc30.sbcglobal.net>
Tim Greer <tim@burlyhost.com> wrote:
> What the hell is Enlish?
It is the language spoken in Enland, of course.
--
Tad McClellan
email: perl -le "print scalar reverse qq/moc.noitatibaher\100cmdat/"
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 1 Jan 2009 05:42:24 GMT
From: merlyn@stonehenge.com (Randal Schwartz)
Subject: new CPAN modules on Thu Jan 1 2009
Message-Id: <KCs2Io.155y@zorch.sf-bay.org>
The following modules have recently been added to or updated in the
Comprehensive Perl Archive Network (CPAN). You can install them using the
instructions in the 'perlmodinstall' page included with your Perl
distribution.
Acme-CPANAuthors-Japanese-0.090101
http://search.cpan.org/~ishigaki/Acme-CPANAuthors-Japanese-0.090101/
We are Japanese CPAN authors
----
Advent-Bundles-0.03
http://search.cpan.org/~davidrw/Advent-Bundles-0.03/
Collection of year-by-year Bundles of the Perl Advent Calendar modules
----
Apache2-Response-FileMerge-0.33
http://search.cpan.org/~wazzuteke/Apache2-Response-FileMerge-0.33/
Merge and include static client-side style and code
----
Astro-SpaceTrack-0.036
http://search.cpan.org/~wyant/Astro-SpaceTrack-0.036/
Retrieve orbital data from www.space-track.org.
----
Audio-Ecasound-Multitrack-0.976
http://search.cpan.org/~ganglion/Audio-Ecasound-Multitrack-0.976/
Perl extensions for multitrack audio processing
----
CHI-0.09
http://search.cpan.org/~jswartz/CHI-0.09/
Unified cache interface
----
CHI-Driver-Memcached-0.04
http://search.cpan.org/~jswartz/CHI-Driver-Memcached-0.04/
Distributed cache via memcached (memory cache daemon)
----
CatalystX-ListFramework-Builder-0.38
http://search.cpan.org/~oliver/CatalystX-ListFramework-Builder-0.38/
Instant AJAX web front-end for DBIx::Class, using Catalyst
----
Class-MOP-0.75
http://search.cpan.org/~drolsky/Class-MOP-0.75/
A Meta Object Protocol for Perl 5
----
Devel-PerlySense-0.0174
http://search.cpan.org/~johanl/Devel-PerlySense-0.0174/
Perl IDE backend with Emacs frontend
----
Fey-Loader-0.07
http://search.cpan.org/~drolsky/Fey-Loader-0.07/
Load your schema defintion from a DBMS
----
Finance-NASDAQ-Quote-0.01
http://search.cpan.org/~iank/Finance-NASDAQ-Quote-0.01/
Fetch real time stock quotes from nasdaq.com
----
GPS-Point-0.12
http://search.cpan.org/~mrdvt/GPS-Point-0.12/
Provides an object interface for a GPS point.
----
Geo-Format-Envisat-0.01
http://search.cpan.org/~markov/Geo-Format-Envisat-0.01/
parse Envisat Metadata format
----
HtmlUnit-0.03
http://search.cpan.org/~awwaiid/HtmlUnit-0.03/
Inline::Java based wrapper of the HtmlUnit library
----
IO-Socket-SSL-1.19
http://search.cpan.org/~sullr/IO-Socket-SSL-1.19/
Nearly transparent SSL encapsulation for IO::Socket::INET.
----
KiokuDB-Backend-Files-0.02_02
http://search.cpan.org/~nuffin/KiokuDB-Backend-Files-0.02_02/
One file per object backend
----
Log-Simple-Color-0.0.1
http://search.cpan.org/~keedi/Log-Simple-Color-0.0.1/
log messages with different color for console
----
Math-Business-BlackScholes-1.01
http://search.cpan.org/~anders/Math-Business-BlackScholes-1.01/
Black-Scholes option price model functions
----
MojoMojo-0.999024
http://search.cpan.org/~mramberg/MojoMojo-0.999024/
A Catalyst & DBIx::Class powered Wiki.
----
Moose-0.64
http://search.cpan.org/~drolsky/Moose-0.64/
A postmodern object system for Perl 5
----
MsOffice-Word-HTML-Writer-0.01
http://search.cpan.org/~dami/MsOffice-Word-HTML-Writer-0.01/
Writing documents for MsWord in HTML format
----
MsOffice-Word-HTML-Writer-0.02
http://search.cpan.org/~dami/MsOffice-Word-HTML-Writer-0.02/
Writing documents for MsWord in HTML format
----
Net-Appliance-Session-1.35
http://search.cpan.org/~oliver/Net-Appliance-Session-1.35/
Run command-line sessions to network appliances
----
Net-SSLGlue-0.1
http://search.cpan.org/~sullr/Net-SSLGlue-0.1/
add/extend SSL support for common perl modules
----
OLE-Storage_Lite-0.18
http://search.cpan.org/~jmcnamara/OLE-Storage_Lite-0.18/
Simple Class for OLE document interface.
----
PDF-Extract-3.04
http://search.cpan.org/~nsharrock/PDF-Extract-3.04/
Extracting sub PDF documents from a multi page PDF document
----
PDF-Extract-3.04b
http://search.cpan.org/~nsharrock/PDF-Extract-3.04b/
Extracting sub PDF documents from a multi page PDF document
----
PDL-Graphics-PLplot-0.47
http://search.cpan.org/~dhunt/PDL-Graphics-PLplot-0.47/
Object-oriented interface from perl/PDL to the PLPLOT plotting library
----
Parse-ErrorString-Perl-0.09
http://search.cpan.org/~szabgab/Parse-ErrorString-Perl-0.09/
Parse error messages from the perl interpreter
----
Regexp-Common-debian-0.0.10
http://search.cpan.org/~whynot/Regexp-Common-debian-0.0.10/
----
RiveScript-1.18
http://search.cpan.org/~kirsle/RiveScript-1.18/
Rendering Intelligence Very Easily
----
Tie-Judy-0.04
http://search.cpan.org/~bholzman/Tie-Judy-0.04/
Perl extension for using a Judy array instead of a hash.
----
Tk-Wizard-2.142
http://search.cpan.org/~lgoddard/Tk-Wizard-2.142/
GUI for step-by-step interactive logical process
----
Tk-Wizard-2.143
http://search.cpan.org/~lgoddard/Tk-Wizard-2.143/
GUI for step-by-step interactive logical process
----
WWW-PivotalTracker-0.11
http://search.cpan.org/~jhelwig/WWW-PivotalTracker-0.11/
Functional interface to Pivotal Tracker <http://www.pivotaltracker.com/>
----
WWW-PivotalTracker-0.12
http://search.cpan.org/~jhelwig/WWW-PivotalTracker-0.12/
Functional interface to Pivotal Tracker <http://www.pivotaltracker.com/>
----
YAML-Perl-0.01_02
http://search.cpan.org/~ingy/YAML-Perl-0.01_02/
Pure Perl Port of PyYAML
If you're an author of one of these modules, please submit a detailed
announcement to comp.lang.perl.announce, and we'll pass it along.
This message was generated by a Perl program described in my Linux
Magazine column, which can be found on-line (along with more than
200 other freely available past column articles) at
http://www.stonehenge.com/merlyn/LinuxMag/col82.html
print "Just another Perl hacker," # the original
--
Randal L. Schwartz - Stonehenge Consulting Services, Inc. - +1 503 777 0095
<merlyn@stonehenge.com> <URL:http://www.stonehenge.com/merlyn/>
Smalltalk/Perl/Unix consulting, Technical writing, Comedy, etc. etc.
See http://methodsandmessages.vox.com/ for Smalltalk and Seaside discussion
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 31 Dec 2008 17:50:15 -0700
From: George <george@example.invalid>
Subject: Re: searching for franken
Message-Id: <xtwx76h5vgnp.mp3i7rx5ai6m$.dlg@40tude.net>
On Tue, 30 Dec 2008 21:48:11 +0100, Hans Mulder wrote:
> Dr.Ruud wrote:
>
>> Unless of course you would bind .pl to a shebang.com that would
> > just do what you once expected.
>
> My copy of perlrun says that perl.exe does exactly that: it reads
> the shebang line and redispatches to the path stated there (unless
> the word "perl" occurs on that line).
>
> When Perl was young, this was useful on Unix versions that didn't
> support shebang; these days it is perhaps useful on Windows.
>
> Hope this helps,
>
> -- HansM
But it can hurt.
If you do -w
and
use warnings;
, you have trouble.
Windows has no trouble located perl.exe. It's a very simple situation,
with target and platform the same, 1 machine, and one operator.
--
George
America must not ignore the threat gathering against us. Facing clear
evidence of peril, we cannot wait for the final proof, the smoking gun that
could come in the form of a mushroom cloud.
George W. Bush
Picture of the Day http://apod.nasa.gov/apod/
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 31 Dec 2008 18:06:37 -0700
From: George <george@example.invalid>
Subject: Re: searching for franken
Message-Id: <myys9sgd7vk6$.1395wghcqhe76$.dlg@40tude.net>
On Wed, 31 Dec 2008 01:35:05 -0800, Jürgen Exner wrote:
> Tad J McClellan <tadmc@seesig.invalid> wrote:
>>Then what did "franken" mean when you wrote it?
>
> Some possibilities:
> - the former currency of France, Belgium, Luxembourg, ... (in German)
> - the currency of Switzerland (in German)
> - the northern part of Bavaria
> - the inhabitants of said part of Bavaria
> - the people of the Carolingian Empire (called Fränkisches Reich in
> German, most famous ruler Carolus Magnus)
> - the duchy of Franken
> - ....
>
> jue
You're from right around there, maybe a scoch north. Because you've
written so much on usenet and our experience overlaps somewhat, I seem to
have read quite a bit about you including sailing in the first appropriate
body of water north of Franken.
They wouldn't let us go near the water, but one fine night in Hamburg,
Mister Minit took us to a sub sunk in the Nordsee.
The crescent moon rests above Venus. 3.3 hands right on the ecliptic is
Jupiter, and Mercury rides 2 fingers to his left and parallel on the
horizon. It may have been the prettiest day all year, and it is the last.
Tomorrow, Mercury will rise above Jupiter.
--
George
I am mindful not only of preserving executive powers for myself, but for
predecessors as well.
George W. Bush
Picture of the Day http://apod.nasa.gov/apod/
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 01 Jan 2009 01:14:46 GMT
From: sln@netherlands.com
Subject: Re: searching for franken
Message-Id: <q56ol4pumse6h91r3m585ai8902o6koisp@4ax.com>
On Wed, 31 Dec 2008 17:50:15 -0700, George <george@example.invalid> wrote:
>On Tue, 30 Dec 2008 21:48:11 +0100, Hans Mulder wrote:
>
>> Dr.Ruud wrote:
>>
>>> Unless of course you would bind .pl to a shebang.com that would
>> > just do what you once expected.
>>
>> My copy of perlrun says that perl.exe does exactly that: it reads
>> the shebang line and redispatches to the path stated there (unless
>> the word "perl" occurs on that line).
>>
>> When Perl was young, this was useful on Unix versions that didn't
>> support shebang; these days it is perhaps useful on Windows.
>>
>> Hope this helps,
>>
>> -- HansM
>
>But it can hurt.
>
>If you do -w
>and
>use warnings;
>, you have trouble.
>
>Windows has no trouble located perl.exe. It's a very simple situation,
>with target and platform the same, 1 machine, and one operator.
Stop the bullshit. You got nothing but shit for brains.
sln
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 31 Dec 2008 23:16:41 -0500
From: Kenneth Tilton <kentilton@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Why not Ruby?
Message-Id: <495c43c3$0$20279$607ed4bc@cv.net>
Xah Lee wrote:
> Just spent 3 hours looking into Ruby today. Here's my short impression
> for those interested.
>
> * Why Not Ruby?
> http://xahlee.org/UnixResource_dir/writ/why_not_Ruby.html
>
> plain text version follows:
> --------------------------------------
>
> Why Not Ruby?
>
> Xah Lee, 2008-12-31
>
> Spent about 3 hours looking into Ruby language today.
>
> The articles i read in detail are:
>
> * Wikipedia: Ruby (programming language)¨J. Gives general overview.
>
> * Brief tutorial: "Ruby in Twenty Minutes"
> http://www.ruby-lang.org/en/documentation/quickstart/
>
> * Personal blog by Stevey Yegge, published in 2004-10.
> http://steve.yegge.googlepages.com/ruby-tour
>
> The Wikipedia gives the best intro and overview in proper context. The
> "Ruby in Twenty Minutes" is just 4 pages. It give you a very concrete
> intro to Ruby's syntax and semantics. Stevey Yegge's blog doesn't
> teach much and rambles, but provide a little personal view. I read it
> because his opinions i respect.
>
> Q: Will you learn Ruby?
>
> No. For practical application, the lang is some 100 times less useful
> than each of Perl, Python, PHP, Javascript. For academic study,
> functional langs like Mathematica, Haskell, OCaml, erlang, Qz, are far
> more interesting and powerful in almost all aspects. Further, there's
> also Perl6, NewLisp, Clojure, Scala... With respect to elegance or
> power, these modern lang of the past 5 years matches or exceed Ruby.
>
> Q: Do you think Ruby lang is elegant?
>
> Yes. In my opinion, better than Perl, Python, PHP. As a high level
> lang, it's far better than Java, C, C++ type of shit. However, i don't
> think it is any better than emacs lisp, Scheme lisp, javascript,
> Mathematica. Note that Ruby doesn't have a spec, and nor a formal
> spec. Javascript has. Ruby's syntax isn't that regular, nor is it
> based on a system. Mathemtica's is. Ruby's power is probably less than
> Scheme, and probably same as Javascript.
>
> I also didn't like the fact that ruby uses keyword "end" to indicate
> code block much as Pascal and Visual Basic, Logo, do. I don't like
> that.
>
> Q: Won't Ruby be a interesting learning experience?
>
> No. As far as semantics goes, Ruby is basically identical to Perl,
> Python, PHP. I am a expert in Perl and PHP, and have working knowledge
> of Python. I already regretted having spent significant amount of time
> (roughly over a year) on Python. In retrospect, i didn't consider the
> time invested in Python worthwhile. (as it turns out, i don't like
> Python and Guido cult, as the lang is going the ways of OOP mumbo-
> jumbo with its Python 3 "brand new" future.) There is absolutely
> nothing new in Ruby, as compared to Perl, Python, PHP, or Emacs lisp,
> Scheme lisp.
>
> Q: Do you recommend new programers to learn Ruby then?
>
> Not particularly. As i mentioned, if you are interested in practical
> utility, there's already Perl, PHP, Python, Javascript, which are all
> heavily used in the computing industry. If you are interested as a
> academic exercise, there's Scheme lisp, and much of functional langs
> such as OCaml, Haskell, Mathematica, which will teach you a whole lot
> more about computer science, features of language semantics, etc.
>
> Q: Do you condemn Ruby?
>
> No. I think it's reasonably elegant, but today there are too many
> languages, so Ruby don't particularly standout for me. Many of them,
> are arguably quite more elegant and powerful than Ruby. See:
> Proliferation of Computing Languages.
>
Kenny Tilton, 2008-12-31
Q: Why not Xah's review of Ruby?
>> Spent about 3 hours looking into Ruby language today.
A. Three hours? I've had belches that lasted longer than that. Of
course, a true master can tell a lot in just a few hours of coding with
a new language...
>> The articles i read in detail are:
Q: Read?!
A: That's what he said.
hth,kzo
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 01 Jan 2009 05:23:52 GMT
From: sln@netherlands.com
Subject: Re: Why not Ruby?
Message-Id: <gokol4puloj1nracmpuee1pnd9qcjl3if0@4ax.com>
On Wed, 31 Dec 2008 23:16:41 -0500, Kenneth Tilton <kentilton@gmail.com> wrote:
>Xah Lee wrote:
>> Just spent 3 hours looking into Ruby today. Here's my short impression
>> for those interested.
>>
>> * Why Not Ruby?
>> http://xahlee.org/UnixResource_dir/writ/why_not_Ruby.html
>>
>> plain text version follows:
>> --------------------------------------
>>
>> Why Not Ruby?
>>
>> Xah Lee, 2008-12-31
>>
>> Spent about 3 hours looking into Ruby language today.
>>
>> The articles i read in detail are:
>>
>> * Wikipedia: Ruby (programming language)¨J. Gives general overview.
>>
>> * Brief tutorial: "Ruby in Twenty Minutes"
>> http://www.ruby-lang.org/en/documentation/quickstart/
>>
>> * Personal blog by Stevey Yegge, published in 2004-10.
>> http://steve.yegge.googlepages.com/ruby-tour
>>
>> The Wikipedia gives the best intro and overview in proper context. The
>> "Ruby in Twenty Minutes" is just 4 pages. It give you a very concrete
>> intro to Ruby's syntax and semantics. Stevey Yegge's blog doesn't
>> teach much and rambles, but provide a little personal view. I read it
>> because his opinions i respect.
>>
>> Q: Will you learn Ruby?
>>
>> No. For practical application, the lang is some 100 times less useful
>> than each of Perl, Python, PHP, Javascript. For academic study,
>> functional langs like Mathematica, Haskell, OCaml, erlang, Qz, are far
>> more interesting and powerful in almost all aspects. Further, there's
>> also Perl6, NewLisp, Clojure, Scala... With respect to elegance or
>> power, these modern lang of the past 5 years matches or exceed Ruby.
>>
>> Q: Do you think Ruby lang is elegant?
>>
>> Yes. In my opinion, better than Perl, Python, PHP. As a high level
>> lang, it's far better than Java, C, C++ type of shit. However, i don't
>> think it is any better than emacs lisp, Scheme lisp, javascript,
>> Mathematica. Note that Ruby doesn't have a spec, and nor a formal
>> spec. Javascript has. Ruby's syntax isn't that regular, nor is it
>> based on a system. Mathemtica's is. Ruby's power is probably less than
>> Scheme, and probably same as Javascript.
>>
>> I also didn't like the fact that ruby uses keyword "end" to indicate
>> code block much as Pascal and Visual Basic, Logo, do. I don't like
>> that.
>>
>> Q: Won't Ruby be a interesting learning experience?
>>
>> No. As far as semantics goes, Ruby is basically identical to Perl,
>> Python, PHP. I am a expert in Perl and PHP, and have working knowledge
>> of Python. I already regretted having spent significant amount of time
>> (roughly over a year) on Python. In retrospect, i didn't consider the
>> time invested in Python worthwhile. (as it turns out, i don't like
>> Python and Guido cult, as the lang is going the ways of OOP mumbo-
>> jumbo with its Python 3 "brand new" future.) There is absolutely
>> nothing new in Ruby, as compared to Perl, Python, PHP, or Emacs lisp,
>> Scheme lisp.
>>
>> Q: Do you recommend new programers to learn Ruby then?
>>
>> Not particularly. As i mentioned, if you are interested in practical
>> utility, there's already Perl, PHP, Python, Javascript, which are all
>> heavily used in the computing industry. If you are interested as a
>> academic exercise, there's Scheme lisp, and much of functional langs
>> such as OCaml, Haskell, Mathematica, which will teach you a whole lot
>> more about computer science, features of language semantics, etc.
>>
>> Q: Do you condemn Ruby?
>>
>> No. I think it's reasonably elegant, but today there are too many
>> languages, so Ruby don't particularly standout for me. Many of them,
>> are arguably quite more elegant and powerful than Ruby. See:
>> Proliferation of Computing Languages.
>>
>
>Kenny Tilton, 2008-12-31
>
>Q: Why not Xah's review of Ruby?
>
>>> Spent about 3 hours looking into Ruby language today.
>
>A. Three hours? I've had belches that lasted longer than that. Of
>course, a true master can tell a lot in just a few hours of coding with
>a new language...
>
>>> The articles i read in detail are:
>
>Q: Read?!
>
>A: That's what he said.
>
>
>hth,kzo
Be carefull what you say. If they pay me I would rip your and Xah's
guts out in a second.
sln
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 31 Dec 2008 23:12:48 -0800 (PST)
From: r <rt8396@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Why not Ruby?
Message-Id: <139581ae-97dd-4c62-9dfb-2eafa476261d@j35g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>
Hey Lee,
I really like your overview of the official Python tut, it's spot on,
and your study of OOP was quite fascinating! I like people who are
honest and not afraid to go up against the status quo, although i will
admit you go a little further than i might at times :). But the world
needs an enema from time to time. "Revolution is my name!"
Face it, the world needs people like Xah. Go check out his site, his
insights of languages and tech is fascinating. The man lives in a
world driven by common sense, and you know what they say --"Common
sense is the least most common thing"-- just look around at the
responses here.
I come from a different world than IT, and I thought initially the IT
world would be filled with intelligent, free thinking, and open minded
people... BOY was i wrong! I would not turn my back on these people
for a second, lest you catch a knife in it!
I find it laughable how people hate you so much, but would still take
the time to reply to your post, just so they can call you a troll. You
are not a troll Xah, but your posts do expose the true trolls and
their minions. Instead of engaging in any sort of intellectual
conversation, they spit 3 grade insults and try to discredit you.
There is nothing wrong with a person expressing their opinion on any
subject. Apparently some of you need to get laid and calm down a
little. Xah has just as much right as anyone here to post his
thoughts, even if they are off topic. Look, if you don't like what he
is saying, DON'T F'IN READ IT!
Xah, I been watching your posts for sometime and it looks like you
have been around for a while. Your profile shows one star & 410
ratings. I have only been in usenet for 2 month and i have one star
and 253 ratings(that will grow to much more after this post), most are
from my supposed "brothers" here at c.l.py. Just letting you know
there are open minded people out here. I would hate to live in a world
that did not contain an Xah lee.
Keep up the good work my brother, you have much more to give!
Thanks
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 1 Jan 2009 00:05:41 -0800 (PST)
From: Jason Rumney <jasonrumney@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Why not Ruby?
Message-Id: <a8414a29-953d-4358-9427-7870110a6c63@a12g2000pro.googlegroups.com>
On Jan 1, 3:12=A0pm, r <rt8...@gmail.com> wrote:
> The man lives in a world driven by common sense
"Common" sense suggests that his views are shared among the general
populace. I don't see much evidence of that in the sometimes never-
ending threads that frequently follow his postings. But it is good to
start debates about making changes to the status quo, often the
debates will result in worthwhile changes, even if those changes are
not what he proposed. I just wish he would choose his venue a little
more carefully sometimes.
------------------------------
Date: 6 Apr 2001 21:33:47 GMT (Last modified)
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Subject: Digest Administrivia (Last modified: 6 Apr 01)
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