[30829] in Perl-Users-Digest
Perl-Users Digest, Issue: 2074 Volume: 11
daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (Perl-Users Digest)
Tue Dec 23 09:09:45 2008
Date: Tue, 23 Dec 2008 06:09:08 -0800 (PST)
From: Perl-Users Digest <Perl-Users-Request@ruby.OCE.ORST.EDU>
To: Perl-Users@ruby.OCE.ORST.EDU (Perl-Users Digest)
Perl-Users Digest Tue, 23 Dec 2008 Volume: 11 Number: 2074
Today's topics:
Re: memory management <1usa@llenroc.ude.invalid>
Re: memory management <hjp-usenet2@hjp.at>
new CPAN modules on Tue Dec 23 2008 (Randal Schwartz)
Re: Non-OO interface to mysql <ced@blv-sam-01.ca.boeing.com>
Re: Non-OO interface to mysql <hjp-usenet2@hjp.at>
Re: Non-OO interface to mysql <klaus03@gmail.com>
Re: Non-OO interface to mysql <ced@blv-sam-01.ca.boeing.com>
Posting Guidelines for comp.lang.perl.misc ($Revision: tadmc@seesig.invalid
Re: Prada shoes (paypal payment)www.king-trade.cn ) <staples@tmp.com>
Digest Administrivia (Last modified: 6 Apr 01) (Perl-Users-Digest Admin)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Mon, 22 Dec 2008 23:59:07 GMT
From: "A. Sinan Unur" <1usa@llenroc.ude.invalid>
Subject: Re: memory management
Message-Id: <Xns9B7CC11F67561asu1cornelledu@127.0.0.1>
Ted Byers <r.ted.byers@gmail.com> wrote in
news:dbce8e4d-76f6-4471-b8a5-2be64a32191b@c36g2000prc.googlegroups.com:
> The frustration is that I have to waste time repeating this,
> in SQL to set up the tables, in classes in (pick one of C++, Java,
> Perl, your favourite OO language) for use in business logic, and then
> again in the user interface. And of course, XML can be added to the
> mix, for communicating between layers
http://www.google.com/search?&q=site%3Athedailywtf.com+xml
--
A. Sinan Unur <1usa@llenroc.ude.invalid>
(remove .invalid and reverse each component for email address)
comp.lang.perl.misc guidelines on the WWW:
http://www.rehabitation.com/clpmisc/
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 23 Dec 2008 11:55:19 +0100
From: "Peter J. Holzer" <hjp-usenet2@hjp.at>
Subject: Re: memory management
Message-Id: <slrngl1gso.8so.hjp-usenet2@hrunkner.hjp.at>
On 2008-12-22 20:39, Ted Byers <r.ted.byers@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Dec 22, 1:53 pm, s...@netherlands.com wrote:
>> On Mon, 22 Dec 2008 10:05:01 -0800 (PST), Ted Byers <r.ted.by...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >Activestate's perl 5.10.0 on WXP.
>>
>> >I have recently found a couple of my scripts failing with out of
>> >memory error messages, notably with XML::Twig.
>>
>> >This makes no sense since the files being processed are only of the
>> >order of a few dozen megabytes to a maximum of 100MB, and the system
>> >has 4 GB RAM.
You may have significantly less memory available per process.
>> By and large, 100MB's of raw data will translate into a possible Gig or
>> more with all the overhead.
Yup. Each string in perl has a quite noticable overhead. Now add hashes
or arrays to build a tree structure, and each element in the XML files
may consume a few hundred bytes ...
(I haven't actually measured this for XML::Twig - just a general
observation)
> Actually, the script giving the most trouble is just using Twig to
> parse an XML file and write the data to flat, tab delimited files to
The nice thing about Twig is that you can flush each subtree from memory
once you are done with it. For converting an XML file into a tab
delimited file I suspect that you only need to keep a small portion of
the tree in memory and can flush frequently - are you doing this?
If you need to keep some information from previously seen subtrees, keep
this information in a separate data structure so that you can flush
these subtrees.
hp
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 23 Dec 2008 05:42:23 GMT
From: merlyn@stonehenge.com (Randal Schwartz)
Subject: new CPAN modules on Tue Dec 23 2008
Message-Id: <KCBEIo.1pDn@zorch.sf-bay.org>
The following modules have recently been added to or updated in the
Comprehensive Perl Archive Network (CPAN). You can install them using the
instructions in the 'perlmodinstall' page included with your Perl
distribution.
Acme-Madness-0.01
http://search.cpan.org/~uri/Acme-Madness-0.01/
----
Acme-Tools-0.10
http://search.cpan.org/~kjetil/Acme-Tools-0.10/
Lots of more or less useful subs lumped together and exported into your namespace
----
Apache2-Controller-1.000.000
http://search.cpan.org/~markle/Apache2-Controller-1.000.000/
framework for Apache2 handler apps
----
Apache2-Controller-1.000.001
http://search.cpan.org/~markle/Apache2-Controller-1.000.001/
framework for Apache2 handler apps
----
App-PPBuild-0.04
http://search.cpan.org/~exodist/App-PPBuild-0.04/
Perl Project Build System
----
App-PPBuild-0.05
http://search.cpan.org/~exodist/App-PPBuild-0.05/
Perl Project Build System, The low-learnign curve simple build system.
----
App-Rad-0.9
http://search.cpan.org/~garu/App-Rad-0.9/
Rapid (and easy!) creation of command line applications
----
B-Generate-1.17
http://search.cpan.org/~rurban/B-Generate-1.17/
Create your own op trees.
----
B-Generate-1.18
http://search.cpan.org/~rurban/B-Generate-1.18/
Create your own op trees.
----
Beanstalk-Client-1.03
http://search.cpan.org/~gbarr/Beanstalk-Client-1.03/
Client class to talk to beanstalkd server
----
CPAN-MirrorStatus-0.01
http://search.cpan.org/~shelling/CPAN-MirrorStatus-0.01/
Perl extension for blah blah blah
----
CPAN-Site-0.22
http://search.cpan.org/~markov/CPAN-Site-0.22/
CPAN.pm subclass for adding site local modules
----
CSS-Packer-0.0101
http://search.cpan.org/~nevesenin/CSS-Packer-0.0101/
Another CSS minifier
----
CSS-Packer-0.2
http://search.cpan.org/~nevesenin/CSS-Packer-0.2/
Another CSS minifier
----
Catalyst-Plugin-Mode-0.01
http://search.cpan.org/~plcgi/Catalyst-Plugin-Mode-0.01/
select config values depends in your development process
----
Config-Model-TkUI-1.204
http://search.cpan.org/~ddumont/Config-Model-TkUI-1.204/
Tk GUI to edit config data through Config::Model
----
Fatal-Exception-0.05
http://search.cpan.org/~dexter/Fatal-Exception-0.05/
Succeed or throw exception
----
Fey-ORM-0.15
http://search.cpan.org/~drolsky/Fey-ORM-0.15/
A Fey-based ORM
----
File-Queue-1.01a
http://search.cpan.org/~jlavold/File-Queue-1.01a/
Persistent FIFO queue implemented in pure perl!
----
FramesReady-1.018
http://search.cpan.org/~derhaag/FramesReady-1.018/
a frames-capable version of LWP::UserAgent
----
FramesReady-1.019
http://search.cpan.org/~derhaag/FramesReady-1.019/
a frames-capable version of LWP::UserAgent
----
Gtk2-Sexy-0.05
http://search.cpan.org/~flora/Gtk2-Sexy-0.05/
Perl interface to the sexy widget collection
----
IPC-PerlSSH-0.10
http://search.cpan.org/~pevans/IPC-PerlSSH-0.10/
a class for executing remote perl code over an SSH link
----
IPC-PerlSSH-Async-0.03
http://search.cpan.org/~pevans/IPC-PerlSSH-Async-0.03/
Asynchronous wrapper around IPC::PerlSSH
----
Kamaitachi-0.03
http://search.cpan.org/~typester/Kamaitachi-0.03/
perl flash media server
----
KiokuDB-0.10
http://search.cpan.org/~nuffin/KiokuDB-0.10/
Object Graph storage engine
----
KiokuDB-Backend-DBI-0.01
http://search.cpan.org/~nuffin/KiokuDB-Backend-DBI-0.01/
DBI backend for KiokuDB
----
KiokuDB-Backend-DBI-0.02
http://search.cpan.org/~nuffin/KiokuDB-Backend-DBI-0.02/
DBI backend for KiokuDB
----
KiokuDB-Backend-JSPON-0.05
http://search.cpan.org/~nuffin/KiokuDB-Backend-JSPON-0.05/
JSON file backend with JSPON reference semantics
----
Net-Async-HTTP-0.03
http://search.cpan.org/~pevans/Net-Async-HTTP-0.03/
Asynchronous HTTP user agent
----
Net-Twitter-1.22
http://search.cpan.org/~cthom/Net-Twitter-1.22/
Perl interface to twitter.com
----
P2P-Transmission-0.05
http://search.cpan.org/~bgilmore/P2P-Transmission-0.05/
Interface to the Transmission BitTorrent client
----
Padre-Plugin-Perl6-0.012
http://search.cpan.org/~azawawi/Padre-Plugin-Perl6-0.012/
Padre plugin for Perl6
----
Parallel-Depend-3.0
http://search.cpan.org/~lembark/Parallel-Depend-3.0/
Parallel::Depend
----
Proc-Safetynet-0.03
http://search.cpan.org/~dtady/Proc-Safetynet-0.03/
POE-based utility for supervising processes
----
Queue-Q4M-0.00014
http://search.cpan.org/~dmaki/Queue-Q4M-0.00014/
Simple Interface To q4m
----
RT-Authen-ExternalAuth-0.07_02
http://search.cpan.org/~falcone/RT-Authen-ExternalAuth-0.07_02/
RT Authentication using External Sources
----
SQL-Abstract-Limit-0.14
http://search.cpan.org/~davebaird/SQL-Abstract-Limit-0.14/
portable LIMIT emulation
----
SQL-Abstract-Limit-0.141
http://search.cpan.org/~davebaird/SQL-Abstract-Limit-0.141/
portable LIMIT emulation
----
Scalar-Random-0.02
http://search.cpan.org/~alfie/Scalar-Random-0.02/
Create automatic random number generators
----
Simo-0.01_04
http://search.cpan.org/~kimoto/Simo-0.01_04/
Very simple framework for Object Oriented Perl.
----
Spreadsheet-Read-0.30
http://search.cpan.org/~hmbrand/Spreadsheet-Read-0.30/
Read the data from a spreadsheet
----
Sub-Alias-0.02
http://search.cpan.org/~gugod/Sub-Alias-0.02/
Simple subroutine alias.
----
Task-Padre-Plugins-0.07
http://search.cpan.org/~fayland/Task-Padre-Plugins-0.07/
Get many Plugins of Padre at once
----
Test-NoTabs-0.4
http://search.cpan.org/~sock/Test-NoTabs-0.4/
Check the presence of tabs in your project
----
Test-WWW-Mechanize-1.23_01
http://search.cpan.org/~petdance/Test-WWW-Mechanize-1.23_01/
Testing-specific WWW::Mechanize subclass
----
Verilog-Readmem-0.03
http://search.cpan.org/~gsullivan/Verilog-Readmem-0.03/
Parse Verilog $readmemh or $readmemb text file
----
WWW-Amazon-Wishlist-1.601
http://search.cpan.org/~mthurn/WWW-Amazon-Wishlist-1.601/
grab all the details from your Amazon wishlist
----
WWW-Contact-0.18
http://search.cpan.org/~fayland/WWW-Contact-0.18/
Get contacts/addressbook from Web
----
WWW-PivotalTracker-0.1.0_4
http://search.cpan.org/~jhelwig/WWW-PivotalTracker-0.1.0_4/
Functional interface to Pivotal Tracker <http://www.pivotaltracker.com/>
----
WWW-Shorten-isgd-0.01
http://search.cpan.org/~bgilmore/WWW-Shorten-isgd-0.01/
Perl interface to is.gd
----
Wiki-Toolkit-Formatter-Markdown-0.0.3
http://search.cpan.org/~perigrin/Wiki-Toolkit-Formatter-Markdown-0.0.3/
A Markdown Formatter for Wiki::Toolkit wikis.
----
Wiki-Toolkit-Formatter-Markdown-0.0.4
http://search.cpan.org/~perigrin/Wiki-Toolkit-Formatter-Markdown-0.0.4/
A Markdown Formatter for Wiki::Toolkit wikis.
----
XML-TMX-0.17
http://search.cpan.org/~ambs/XML-TMX-0.17/
Perl extensions for managing TMX files
----
XML-TinyXML-0.07
http://search.cpan.org/~xant/XML-TinyXML-0.07/
Little and efficient Perl module to manage xml data.
----
XML-TinyXML-0.08
http://search.cpan.org/~xant/XML-TinyXML-0.08/
Little and efficient Perl module to manage xml data.
If you're an author of one of these modules, please submit a detailed
announcement to comp.lang.perl.announce, and we'll pass it along.
This message was generated by a Perl program described in my Linux
Magazine column, which can be found on-line (along with more than
200 other freely available past column articles) at
http://www.stonehenge.com/merlyn/LinuxMag/col82.html
print "Just another Perl hacker," # the original
--
Randal L. Schwartz - Stonehenge Consulting Services, Inc. - +1 503 777 0095
<merlyn@stonehenge.com> <URL:http://www.stonehenge.com/merlyn/>
Smalltalk/Perl/Unix consulting, Technical writing, Comedy, etc. etc.
See http://methodsandmessages.vox.com/ for Smalltalk and Seaside discussion
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 22 Dec 2008 21:28:22 -0800 (PST)
From: "C.DeRykus" <ced@blv-sam-01.ca.boeing.com>
Subject: Re: Non-OO interface to mysql
Message-Id: <3a8bd470-bc95-436d-a4e9-64cff9ee08b6@o4g2000pra.googlegroups.com>
On Dec 22, 4:04 am, "Peter J. Holzer" <hjp-usen...@hjp.at> wrote:
> ...
> #!/usr/bin/perl
> use warnings;
> use strict;
>
> use Benchmark 'cmpthese';
>
> my $phandle = 23;
> my $ohandle = MyClass->new();
> my $arg = "this is an argument";
>
> cmpthese(-3,
> {
> 'proc' => sub { foo($phandle, $arg) },
> 'oo' => sub { $ohandle->foo($arg) },
> });
>
> sub foo {
> my ($handle, $arg) = @_;
> return $arg;
>
> }
>
> package MyClass;
>
> sub new {
> my ($class) = @_;
> my $self = {};
> return bless $self, $class;
>
> }
>
> sub foo {
> my ($self, $arg) = @_;
> return $arg;}
>
> __END__
>
> This little program compares a "procedural" subroutine call with an
> oo-style method call.
>
> Rate oo proc
> oo 783445/s -- -7%
> proc 838852/s 7% --
>
> Hooray, procedural calls are 7 percent faster. That's a whopping 84
> nanoseconds per call. But let's run it again:
>
> Rate proc oo
> proc 786957/s -- -7%
> oo 842802/s 7% --
>
> Oh, this time oo is 7 percent faster.
>
> If you repeat that a few times you will see that in about 50 % of the
> cases the procedural call is slightly faster than the oo call and in
> 50 % of the cases the oo call is slightly faster - or in other words,
> the difference is not even measurable with a simple benchmark.
>
Totally agree but this particular code gives OO an
edge due to method caching.
A slight tweak: $arg . ("a".."z")[int(rand(26))]
consistently tilts for the faster procedural call ...
at least for some small Solaris and Linux sample
runs.
--
Charles DeRykus
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 23 Dec 2008 12:11:54 +0100
From: "Peter J. Holzer" <hjp-usenet2@hjp.at>
Subject: Re: Non-OO interface to mysql
Message-Id: <slrngl1hrq.9b0.hjp-usenet2@hrunkner.hjp.at>
On 2008-12-23 05:28, C.DeRykus <ced@blv-sam-01.ca.boeing.com> wrote:
> On Dec 22, 4:04 am, "Peter J. Holzer" <hjp-usen...@hjp.at> wrote:
>> If you repeat that a few times you will see that in about 50 % of the
>> cases the procedural call is slightly faster than the oo call and in
>> 50 % of the cases the oo call is slightly faster - or in other words,
>> the difference is not even measurable with a simple benchmark.
>>
>
> Totally agree but this particular code gives OO an
> edge due to method caching.
>
> A slight tweak: $arg . ("a".."z")[int(rand(26))]
> consistently tilts for the faster procedural call ...
> at least for some small Solaris and Linux sample
> runs.
Interesting. I hadn't expected that the values of the arguments have an
influence on the method cache. How does the method cache work?
hp
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 23 Dec 2008 03:36:04 -0800 (PST)
From: Klaus <klaus03@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Non-OO interface to mysql
Message-Id: <0c3808c5-7080-4c92-924b-21246616ed0c@40g2000prx.googlegroups.com>
On Dec 22, 2:39=A0pm, "Peter J. Holzer" <hjp-usen...@hjp.at> wrote:
> On 2008-12-22 12:53, Klaus <klau...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > On Dec 21, 8:53=A0pm, "Peter J. Holzer" <hjp-usen...@hjp.at> wrote:
>
> [Non-OO DB interface]
>
> >> Write simple wrapping functions around DBI, if you prefer to write
> >> =A0 =A0 $rows =3D mysql_selectall_arrayref($dbh, "select * from table"=
);
> >> instead of
> >> =A0 =A0 $rows =3D $dbh->selectall_arrayref("select * from table");
>
> > No need to write wrapper functions. A plain...
>
> > =A0 =A0 $rows =3D DBI::mysql_selectall_arrayref($dbh, "select * from
> > table");
>
> > ...should work.
>
> No, because $dbh is not an object of the class DBI, but of the class
> DBI::db.
> DBI uses quite a lot of classes internally, and several of them depend
> on the DBD driver actually in use, so you generally don't know (and
> shouldn't care) which class an object belongs to (just which interface
> it implements, to borrow some terminology from Java).
Thanks for your correction.
--
Klaus
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 23 Dec 2008 05:16:29 -0800 (PST)
From: "C.DeRykus" <ced@blv-sam-01.ca.boeing.com>
Subject: Re: Non-OO interface to mysql
Message-Id: <74018fb8-f43e-4c4b-a666-3117512d8c7b@g1g2000pra.googlegroups.com>
On Dec 23, 3:11 am, "Peter J. Holzer" <hjp-usen...@hjp.at> wrote:
> On 2008-12-23 05:28, C.DeRykus <c...@blv-sam-01.ca.boeing.com> wrote:
>
> > On Dec 22, 4:04 am, "Peter J. Holzer" <hjp-usen...@hjp.at> wrote:
> >> If you repeat that a few times you will see that in about 50 % of the
> >> cases the procedural call is slightly faster than the oo call and in
> >> 50 % of the cases the oo call is slightly faster - or in other words,
> >> the difference is not even measurable with a simple benchmark.
>
> > Totally agree but this particular code gives OO an
> > edge due to method caching.
>
> > A slight tweak: $arg . ("a".."z")[int(rand(26))]
> > consistently tilts for the faster procedural call ...
> > at least for some small Solaris and Linux sample
> > runs.
>
> Interesting. I hadn't expected that the values of the arguments have an
> influence on the method cache. How does the method cache work?
Actually, I just assumed that expensive method pointer
lookups were being cached and that leveled the playing
field. Normally, that extra lookup would slow the OO
call and procedural would win. Also, I assume that if
the method argument is constant, as it is here, the call
result itself could be cached too and that'd apply to the procedural
call too.
But, caching the method pointer lookup would seem
independent of the constant argument caching. Maybe
Perl doesn't bother with the method pointer caching if the arguments
can't be cached. I don't know....
--
Charles DeRykus
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 23 Dec 2008 08:11:59 GMT
From: tadmc@seesig.invalid
Subject: Posting Guidelines for comp.lang.perl.misc ($Revision: 1.8 $)
Message-Id: <j314l.10560$yr3.2564@nlpi068.nbdc.sbc.com>
Outline
Before posting to comp.lang.perl.misc
Must
- Check the Perl Frequently Asked Questions (FAQ)
- Check the other standard Perl docs (*.pod)
Really Really Should
- Lurk for a while before posting
- Search a Usenet archive
If You Like
- Check Other Resources
Posting to comp.lang.perl.misc
Is there a better place to ask your question?
- Question should be about Perl, not about the application area
How to participate (post) in the clpmisc community
- Carefully choose the contents of your Subject header
- Use an effective followup style
- Speak Perl rather than English, when possible
- Ask perl to help you
- Do not re-type Perl code
- Provide enough information
- Do not provide too much information
- Do not post binaries, HTML, or MIME
Social faux pas to avoid
- Asking a Frequently Asked Question
- Asking a question easily answered by a cursory doc search
- Asking for emailed answers
- Beware of saying "doesn't work"
- Sending a "stealth" Cc copy
Be extra cautious when you get upset
- Count to ten before composing a followup when you are upset
- Count to ten after composing and before posting when you are upset
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Posting Guidelines for comp.lang.perl.misc ($Revision: 1.8 $)
This newsgroup, commonly called clpmisc, is a technical newsgroup
intended to be used for discussion of Perl related issues (except job
postings), whether it be comments or questions.
As you would expect, clpmisc discussions are usually very technical in
nature and there are conventions for conduct in technical newsgroups
going somewhat beyond those in non-technical newsgroups.
The article at:
http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html
describes how to get answers from technical people in general.
This article describes things that you should, and should not, do to
increase your chances of getting an answer to your Perl question. It is
available in POD, HTML and plain text formats at:
http://www.rehabitation.com/clpmisc.shtml
For more information about netiquette in general, see the "Netiquette
Guidelines" at:
http://andrew2.andrew.cmu.edu/rfc/rfc1855.html
A note to newsgroup "regulars":
Do not use these guidelines as a "license to flame" or other
meanness. It is possible that a poster is unaware of things
discussed here. Give them the benefit of the doubt, and just
help them learn how to post, rather than assume that they do
know and are being the "bad kind" of Lazy.
A note about technical terms used here:
In this document, we use words like "must" and "should" as
they're used in technical conversation (such as you will
encounter in this newsgroup). When we say that you *must* do
something, we mean that if you don't do that something, then
it's unlikely that you will benefit much from this group.
We're not bossing you around; we're making the point without
lots of words.
Do *NOT* send email to the maintainer of these guidelines. It will be
discarded unread. The guidelines belong to the newsgroup so all
discussion should appear in the newsgroup. I am just the secretary that
writes down the consensus of the group.
Before posting to comp.lang.perl.misc
Must
This section describes things that you *must* do before posting to
clpmisc, in order to maximize your chances of getting meaningful replies
to your inquiry and to avoid getting flamed for being lazy and trying to
have others do your work.
The perl distribution includes documentation that is copied to your hard
drive when you install perl. Also installed is a program for looking
things up in that (and other) documentation named 'perldoc'.
You should either find out where the docs got installed on your system,
or use perldoc to find them for you. Type "perldoc perldoc" to learn how
to use perldoc itself. Type "perldoc perl" to start reading Perl's
standard documentation.
Check the Perl Frequently Asked Questions (FAQ)
Checking the FAQ before posting is required in Big 8 newsgroups in
general, there is nothing clpmisc-specific about this requirement.
You are expected to do this in nearly all newsgroups.
You can use the "-q" switch with perldoc to do a word search of the
questions in the Perl FAQs.
Check the other standard Perl docs (*.pod)
The perl distribution comes with much more documentation than is
available for most other newsgroups, so in clpmisc you should also
see if you can find an answer in the other (non-FAQ) standard docs
before posting.
It is *not* required, or even expected, that you actually *read* all of
Perl's standard docs, only that you spend a few minutes searching them
before posting.
Try doing a word-search in the standard docs for some words/phrases
taken from your problem statement or from your very carefully worded
"Subject:" header.
Really Really Should
This section describes things that you *really should* do before posting
to clpmisc.
Lurk for a while before posting
This is very important and expected in all newsgroups. Lurking means
to monitor a newsgroup for a period to become familiar with local
customs. Each newsgroup has specific customs and rituals. Knowing
these before you participate will help avoid embarrassing social
situations. Consider yourself to be a foreigner at first!
Search a Usenet archive
There are tens of thousands of Perl programmers. It is very likely
that your question has already been asked (and answered). See if you
can find where it has already been answered.
One such searchable archive is:
http://groups.google.com/advanced_group_search
If You Like
This section describes things that you *can* do before posting to
clpmisc.
Check Other Resources
You may want to check in books or on web sites to see if you can
find the answer to your question.
But you need to consider the source of such information: there are a
lot of very poor Perl books and web sites, and several good ones
too, of course.
Posting to comp.lang.perl.misc
There can be 200 messages in clpmisc in a single day. Nobody is going to
read every article. They must decide somehow which articles they are
going to read, and which they will skip.
Your post is in competition with 199 other posts. You need to "win"
before a person who can help you will even read your question.
These sections describe how you can help keep your article from being
one of the "skipped" ones.
Is there a better place to ask your question?
Question should be about Perl, not about the application area
It can be difficult to separate out where your problem really is,
but you should make a conscious effort to post to the most
applicable newsgroup. That is, after all, where you are the most
likely to find the people who know how to answer your question.
Being able to "partition" a problem is an essential skill for
effectively troubleshooting programming problems. If you don't get
that right, you end up looking for answers in the wrong places.
It should be understood that you may not know that the root of your
problem is not Perl-related (the two most frequent ones are CGI and
Operating System related), so off-topic postings will happen from
time to time. Be gracious when someone helps you find a better place
to ask your question by pointing you to a more applicable newsgroup.
How to participate (post) in the clpmisc community
Carefully choose the contents of your Subject header
You have 40 precious characters of Subject to win out and be one of
the posts that gets read. Don't waste them. Take care while
composing them, they are the key that opens the door to getting an
answer.
Spend them indicating what aspect of Perl others will find if they
should decide to read your article.
Do not spend them indicating "experience level" (guru, newbie...).
Do not spend them pleading (please read, urgent, help!...).
Do not spend them on non-Subjects (Perl question, one-word
Subject...)
For more information on choosing a Subject see "Choosing Good
Subject Lines":
http://www.cpan.org/authors/id/D/DM/DMR/subjects.post
Part of the beauty of newsgroup dynamics, is that you can contribute
to the community with your very first post! If your choice of
Subject leads a fellow Perler to find the thread you are starting,
then even asking a question helps us all.
Use an effective followup style
When composing a followup, quote only enough text to establish the
context for the comments that you will add. Always indicate who
wrote the quoted material. Never quote an entire article. Never
quote a .signature (unless that is what you are commenting on).
Intersperse your comments *following* each section of quoted text to
which they relate. Unappreciated followup styles are referred to as
"top-posting", "Jeopardy" (because the answer comes before the
question), or "TOFU" (Text Over, Fullquote Under).
Reversing the chronology of the dialog makes it much harder to
understand (some folks won't even read it if written in that style).
For more information on quoting style, see:
http://web.presby.edu/~nnqadmin/nnq/nquote.html
Speak Perl rather than English, when possible
Perl is much more precise than natural language. Saying it in Perl
instead will avoid misunderstanding your question or problem.
Do not say: I have variable with "foo\tbar" in it.
Instead say: I have $var = "foo\tbar", or I have $var = 'foo\tbar',
or I have $var = <DATA> (and show the data line).
Ask perl to help you
You can ask perl itself to help you find common programming mistakes
by doing two things: enable warnings (perldoc warnings) and enable
"strict"ures (perldoc strict).
You should not bother the hundreds/thousands of readers of the
newsgroup without first seeing if a machine can help you find your
problem. It is demeaning to be asked to do the work of a machine. It
will annoy the readers of your article.
You can look up any of the messages that perl might issue to find
out what the message means and how to resolve the potential mistake
(perldoc perldiag). If you would like perl to look them up for you,
you can put "use diagnostics;" near the top of your program.
Do not re-type Perl code
Use copy/paste or your editor's "import" function rather than
attempting to type in your code. If you make a typo you will get
followups about your typos instead of about the question you are
trying to get answered.
Provide enough information
If you do the things in this item, you will have an Extremely Good
chance of getting people to try and help you with your problem!
These features are a really big bonus toward your question winning
out over all of the other posts that you are competing with.
First make a short (less than 20-30 lines) and *complete* program
that illustrates the problem you are having. People should be able
to run your program by copy/pasting the code from your article. (You
will find that doing this step very often reveals your problem
directly. Leading to an answer much more quickly and reliably than
posting to Usenet.)
Describe *precisely* the input to your program. Also provide example
input data for your program. If you need to show file input, use the
__DATA__ token (perldata.pod) to provide the file contents inside of
your Perl program.
Show the output (including the verbatim text of any messages) of
your program.
Describe how you want the output to be different from what you are
getting.
If you have no idea at all of how to code up your situation, be sure
to at least describe the 2 things that you *do* know: input and
desired output.
Do not provide too much information
Do not just post your entire program for debugging. Most especially
do not post someone *else's* entire program.
Do not post binaries, HTML, or MIME
clpmisc is a text only newsgroup. If you have images or binaries
that explain your question, put them in a publically accessible
place (like a Web server) and provide a pointer to that location. If
you include code, cut and paste it directly in the message body.
Don't attach anything to the message. Don't post vcards or HTML.
Many people (and even some Usenet servers) will automatically filter
out such messages. Many people will not be able to easily read your
post. Plain text is something everyone can read.
Social faux pas to avoid
The first two below are symptoms of lots of FAQ asking here in clpmisc.
It happens so often that folks will assume that it is happening yet
again. If you have looked but not found, or found but didn't understand
the docs, say so in your article.
Asking a Frequently Asked Question
It should be understood that you may have missed the applicable FAQ
when you checked, which is not a big deal. But if the Frequently
Asked Question is worded similar to your question, folks will assume
that you did not look at all. Don't become indignant at pointers to
the FAQ, particularly if it solves your problem.
Asking a question easily answered by a cursory doc search
If folks think you have not even tried the obvious step of reading
the docs applicable to your problem, they are likely to become
annoyed.
If you are flamed for not checking when you *did* check, then just
shrug it off (and take the answer that you got).
Asking for emailed answers
Emailed answers benefit one person. Posted answers benefit the
entire community. If folks can take the time to answer your
question, then you can take the time to go get the answer in the
same place where you asked the question.
It is OK to ask for a *copy* of the answer to be emailed, but many
will ignore such requests anyway. If you munge your address, you
should never expect (or ask) to get email in response to a Usenet
post.
Ask the question here, get the answer here (maybe).
Beware of saying "doesn't work"
This is a "red flag" phrase. If you find yourself writing that,
pause and see if you can't describe what is not working without
saying "doesn't work". That is, describe how it is not what you
want.
Sending a "stealth" Cc copy
A "stealth Cc" is when you both email and post a reply without
indicating *in the body* that you are doing so.
Be extra cautious when you get upset
Count to ten before composing a followup when you are upset
This is recommended in all Usenet newsgroups. Here in clpmisc, most
flaming sub-threads are not about any feature of Perl at all! They
are most often for what was seen as a breach of netiquette. If you
have lurked for a bit, then you will know what is expected and won't
make such posts in the first place.
But if you get upset, wait a while before writing your followup. I
recommend waiting at least 30 minutes.
Count to ten after composing and before posting when you are upset
After you have written your followup, wait *another* 30 minutes
before committing yourself by posting it. You cannot take it back
once it has been said.
AUTHOR
Tad McClellan and many others on the comp.lang.perl.misc newsgroup.
--
Tad McClellan
email: perl -le "print scalar reverse qq/moc.noitatibaher\100cmdat/"
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 23 Dec 2008 04:51:12 GMT
From: "Stapler" <staples@tmp.com>
Subject: Re: Prada shoes (paypal payment)www.king-trade.cn )
Message-Id: <47_3l.643$BC4.43@nwrddc02.gnilink.net>
> Gucci shoes `
Oh really? I'd really like to buy some right now. Give me your email address
and I'll send you my credit card info and everythng!!!
------------------------------
Date: 6 Apr 2001 21:33:47 GMT (Last modified)
From: Perl-Users-Request@ruby.oce.orst.edu (Perl-Users-Digest Admin)
Subject: Digest Administrivia (Last modified: 6 Apr 01)
Message-Id: <null>
Administrivia:
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------------------------------
End of Perl-Users Digest V11 Issue 2074
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