[30822] in Perl-Users-Digest
Perl-Users Digest, Issue: 2067 Volume: 11
daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (Perl-Users Digest)
Fri Dec 19 21:09:49 2008
Date: Fri, 19 Dec 2008 18:09:15 -0800 (PST)
From: Perl-Users Digest <Perl-Users-Request@ruby.OCE.ORST.EDU>
To: Perl-Users@ruby.OCE.ORST.EDU (Perl-Users Digest)
Perl-Users Digest Fri, 19 Dec 2008 Volume: 11 Number: 2067
Today's topics:
Brutal Hardcore Violent British Extreme Fuck Porno - Fr ojbaconstartle@gmail.com
clitoris piercings pics - Free ojbaconstartle@gmail.com
female ejaculation double dildo strapon - Free ojbaconstartle@gmail.com
foreplay swinger magazine - Free ojbaconstartle@gmail.com
free xxx double vaginal penetration lovers - Free ojbaconstartle@gmail.com
Re: Rounding up in perl <tim@burlyhost.com>
Re: Rounding up in perl <nospam-abuse@ilyaz.org>
Re: Rounding up in perl <tim@burlyhost.com>
Re: Rounding up in perl <tim@burlyhost.com>
Re: Rounding up in perl <tim@burlyhost.com>
Re: Rounding up in perl <nospam-abuse@ilyaz.org>
Re: Rounding up in perl <nospam-abuse@ilyaz.org>
Re: Rounding up in perl <tim@burlyhost.com>
Re: Rounding up in perl <tim@burlyhost.com>
self fisting anal how to - Free ojbaconstartle@gmail.com
teen girl moaning out in pleasure - Free ojbaconstartle@gmail.com
Re: The single biggest STUPIDITY in Perl ... <waveright@gmail.com>
wife taking on black cock video - Free ojbaconstartle@gmail.com
Digest Administrivia (Last modified: 6 Apr 01) (Perl-Users-Digest Admin)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Fri, 19 Dec 2008 17:13:25 -0800 (PST)
From: ojbaconstartle@gmail.com
Subject: Brutal Hardcore Violent British Extreme Fuck Porno - Free
Message-Id: <0af31a4b-150e-4b32-940c-7bac1f8d806e@v5g2000prm.googlegroups.com>
Brutal Hardcore Violent British Extreme Fuck Porno
.
.
.
*******CLICK HERE********
http://club247.cn/Brutal-Hardcore-Violent-British-Extreme-Fuck-Porno
*****************************
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
Brutal Hardcore Violent British Extreme Fuck Porno
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 19 Dec 2008 17:12:38 -0800 (PST)
From: ojbaconstartle@gmail.com
Subject: clitoris piercings pics - Free
Message-Id: <dc60adb4-1384-4501-8067-ad1f8ac3534b@z28g2000prd.googlegroups.com>
clitoris piercings pics
.
.
.
*******CLICK HERE********
http://club247.cn/clitoris-piercings-pics
*****************************
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
clitoris piercings pics
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 19 Dec 2008 17:13:01 -0800 (PST)
From: ojbaconstartle@gmail.com
Subject: female ejaculation double dildo strapon - Free
Message-Id: <648be341-ca74-41de-925b-78505825f4f1@b38g2000prf.googlegroups.com>
female ejaculation double dildo strapon
.
.
.
*******CLICK HERE********
http://club247.cn/female-ejaculation-double-dildo-strapon
*****************************
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
female ejaculation double dildo strapon
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 19 Dec 2008 17:12:00 -0800 (PST)
From: ojbaconstartle@gmail.com
Subject: foreplay swinger magazine - Free
Message-Id: <ec703a32-7d70-4554-8248-9f622e61c07f@v39g2000pro.googlegroups.com>
foreplay swinger magazine
.
.
.
*******CLICK HERE********
http://club247.cn/foreplay-swinger-magazine
*****************************
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
foreplay swinger magazine
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 19 Dec 2008 17:13:35 -0800 (PST)
From: ojbaconstartle@gmail.com
Subject: free xxx double vaginal penetration lovers - Free
Message-Id: <f238ca9a-4916-45af-968b-6c38732c5d58@s1g2000prg.googlegroups.com>
free xxx double vaginal penetration lovers
.
.
.
*******CLICK HERE********
http://club247.cn/free-xxx-double-vaginal-penetration-lovers
*****************************
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
free xxx double vaginal penetration lovers
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 19 Dec 2008 11:57:16 -0800
From: Tim Greer <tim@burlyhost.com>
Subject: Re: Rounding up in perl
Message-Id: <w0T2l.27240$fv3.21285@newsfe06.iad>
sln@netherlands.com wrote:
> On Thu, 18 Dec 2008 23:31:11 -0800, Tim Greer <tim@burlyhost.com>
> wrote:
>
>>sln@netherlands.com wrote:
>>
>>> On Thu, 18 Dec 2008 22:42:35 -0800, Tim Greer <tim@burlyhost.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>>sln@netherlands.com wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On Thu, 18 Dec 2008 19:52:28 -0800, Tim Greer <tim@burlyhost.com>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>sln@netherlands.com wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> It says it should not be used for rounding, for TWO reasons.
>>>>>>> Thats two references to ROUNDING you say it doesen't use.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> sln
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Or... it's that it could be used for rounding, but that it's not a
>>>>>>good idea, as you could have unexpected results.
>>>>> [snip]
>>>>> And just what is that?
>>>>>
>>>>> sln
>>>>
>>>>It might appear to be working fine and give you the desired/expected
>>>>results, but by the nature of it, and as you're warned about in the
>>>>docs you quoted yourself, it is not a good idea and probably won't
>>>>work
>>>>how you expect it to. I don't know what else to say?
>>>
>>> It is certainty for you, you won't and can't depend on Perl
>>> intrinsic functions. Because for you, they work intermittentely and
>>> with unexpected results.
>>>
>>> I wish you luck.
>>>
>>> sln
>>
>>I didn't create it, I didn't write the documentation about it. While
>>I'm sure one could work with said function to do rounding, it's not
>>intended to round and suffers from side effects.
> [snip]
>
> Ah, just what is the intention of int()? And what are the 'side'
> effects?
>
> sln
Just what it says (Returns the integer portion of EXPR):
int EXPR
int Returns the integer portion of EXPR. If EXPR is omitted,
uses $_. You should not use this function for rounding: one because
it truncates towards 0, and two because machine representations
of floating point numbers can sometimes produce counterintu-
itive results. For example, "int(-6.725/0.025)" produces -268
rather than the correct -269; that’s because it’s really more
like -268.99999999999994315658 instead. Usually, the
"sprintf", "printf", or the "POSIX::floor" and "POSIX::ceil"
functions will serve you better than will int()
I repeat, I didn't say you couldn't use it for rounding, but it's not
the best function for it, unless you are okay with results you probably
don't want now and then (which to me, says it's a bad idea -- which the
docs tell you as well). By all means, if you want to use it for
rounding, go for it (and good luck with that).
--
Tim Greer, CEO/Founder/CTO, BurlyHost.com, Inc.
Shared Hosting, Reseller Hosting, Dedicated & Semi-Dedicated servers
and Custom Hosting. 24/7 support, 30 day guarantee, secure servers.
Industry's most experienced staff! -- Web Hosting With Muscle!
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 19 Dec 2008 20:55:59 +0000 (UTC)
From: Ilya Zakharevich <nospam-abuse@ilyaz.org>
Subject: Re: Rounding up in perl
Message-Id: <gih1ov$26lf$1@agate.berkeley.edu>
[A complimentary Cc of this posting was sent to
Tim Greer
<tim@burlyhost.com>], who wrote in article <35I2l.6241$E46.1680@newsfe21.iad>:
> I didn't create it, I didn't write the documentation about it.
So do it.
> While I'm sure one could work with said function to do rounding,
int() rounds. Period.
> it's not intended to round
It is.
> and suffers from side effects.
There is no side effects.
[But we had this discussion many times. Perl docs are abyssmal...]
Hope this helps,
Ilya
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 19 Dec 2008 14:17:17 -0800
From: Tim Greer <tim@burlyhost.com>
Subject: Re: Rounding up in perl
Message-Id: <N3V2l.55503$v37.39942@newsfe01.iad>
Ilya Zakharevich wrote:
> [A complimentary Cc of this posting was sent to
> Tim Greer
> <tim@burlyhost.com>], who wrote in article
> <35I2l.6241$E46.1680@newsfe21.iad>:
>> I didn't create it, I didn't write the documentation about it.
>
> So do it.
Do what? Go back in time and create it or go back in time and write the
documention?
>> While I'm sure one could work with said function to do rounding,
>
> int() rounds. Period.
Just not as well as other methods.
>> it's not intended to round
>
> It is.
Just not accurately in every circumstance (where its own documentation
recommends against using it)
>> and suffers from side effects.
>
> There is no side effects.
According to the documentation it does.
> [But we had this discussion many times. Perl docs are abyssmal...]
>
So rewrite the docs.
--
Tim Greer, CEO/Founder/CTO, BurlyHost.com, Inc.
Shared Hosting, Reseller Hosting, Dedicated & Semi-Dedicated servers
and Custom Hosting. 24/7 support, 30 day guarantee, secure servers.
Industry's most experienced staff! -- Web Hosting With Muscle!
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 19 Dec 2008 14:24:30 -0800
From: Tim Greer <tim@burlyhost.com>
Subject: Re: Rounding up in perl
Message-Id: <yaV2l.55504$v37.36199@newsfe01.iad>
Ilya Zakharevich wrote:
<Snip>
PS: I never said int() *won't* round (or can't be used to round). I
even said it could be, but there are better methods.
--
Tim Greer, CEO/Founder/CTO, BurlyHost.com, Inc.
Shared Hosting, Reseller Hosting, Dedicated & Semi-Dedicated servers
and Custom Hosting. 24/7 support, 30 day guarantee, secure servers.
Industry's most experienced staff! -- Web Hosting With Muscle!
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 19 Dec 2008 14:35:56 -0800
From: Tim Greer <tim@burlyhost.com>
Subject: Re: Rounding up in perl
Message-Id: <hlV2l.55512$v37.17095@newsfe01.iad>
Ilya Zakharevich wrote:
> [A complimentary Cc of this posting was sent to
> Tim Greer
> <tim@burlyhost.com>], who wrote in article
> <35I2l.6241$E46.1680@newsfe21.iad>:
>> I didn't create it, I didn't write the documentation about it.
>
> So do it.
>
>> While I'm sure one could work with said function to do rounding,
>
> int() rounds. Period.
>
>> it's not intended to round
>
> It is.
>
>> and suffers from side effects.
>
> There is no side effects.
>
> [But we had this discussion many times. Perl docs are abyssmal...]
>
> Hope this helps,
> Ilya
Actually, I'm a little surprised that you'd respond like that, so
forgive the additional reply. int() truncates, and just because you can
use it to round, doesn't mean that is its intended purpose. You insist
it's a function intended to round and not truncate? The probelms with
using int to round (in the manner outlined in this thread anyway) are
outlined in the documentation and verified by tests. So, has this
changed from a truncate function to a round function at some point?
--
Tim Greer, CEO/Founder/CTO, BurlyHost.com, Inc.
Shared Hosting, Reseller Hosting, Dedicated & Semi-Dedicated servers
and Custom Hosting. 24/7 support, 30 day guarantee, secure servers.
Industry's most experienced staff! -- Web Hosting With Muscle!
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 20 Dec 2008 01:45:06 +0000 (UTC)
From: Ilya Zakharevich <nospam-abuse@ilyaz.org>
Subject: Re: Rounding up in perl
Message-Id: <gihin2$2bpj$1@agate.berkeley.edu>
[A complimentary Cc of this posting was sent to
Tim Greer
<tim@burlyhost.com>], who wrote in article <N3V2l.55503$v37.39942@newsfe01.iad>:
> >> I didn't create it, I didn't write the documentation about it.
> > So do it.
> Do what? Go back in time and create it or go back in time and write the
> documention?
Write correct documentation...
> >> While I'm sure one could work with said function to do rounding,
> >
> > int() rounds. Period.
> Just not as well as other methods.
Exactly as well as any other rounding methed.
> >> it's not intended to round
> > It is.
> Just not accurately in every circumstance
int() gives a precise answer. By definition, a precise (and correct
;-) answer can't be "non-accurate".
> (where its own documentation recommends against using it)
Documentation is absolutely wrong.
> >> and suffers from side effects.
> > There is no side effects.
> According to the documentation it does.
Nevertheless.
Hope this helps,
Ilya
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 20 Dec 2008 01:47:17 +0000 (UTC)
From: Ilya Zakharevich <nospam-abuse@ilyaz.org>
Subject: Re: Rounding up in perl
Message-Id: <gihir5$2bpp$1@agate.berkeley.edu>
[A complimentary Cc of this posting was sent to
Tim Greer
<tim@burlyhost.com>], who wrote in article <hlV2l.55512$v37.17095@newsfe01.iad>:
> Actually, I'm a little surprised that you'd respond like that, so
> forgive the additional reply. int() truncates, and just because you can
> use it to round, doesn't mean that is its intended purpose. You insist
> it's a function intended to round and not truncate?
If you want to go back in time, and repeat all these arguments again:
truncation is of 5 different (more or less commonly used) modes of rounding.
Hope this helps,
Ilya
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 19 Dec 2008 17:58:51 -0800
From: Tim Greer <tim@burlyhost.com>
Subject: Re: Rounding up in perl
Message-Id: <wjY2l.59529$yB4.50027@newsfe07.iad>
Ilya Zakharevich wrote:
> [A complimentary Cc of this posting was sent to
There's no need for the complimentary Cc. I read it here, I don't need
to read it in email as well. Thanks.
> Tim Greer
> <tim@burlyhost.com>], who wrote in article
> <N3V2l.55503$v37.39942@newsfe01.iad>:
>> >> I didn't create it, I didn't write the documentation about it.
>
>> > So do it.
>
>> Do what? Go back in time and create it or go back in time and write
>> the documention?
>
> Write correct documentation...
You're welcome to write the correct documentation yourself, since you
disagree with it.
>> >> While I'm sure one could work with said function to do rounding,
>> >
>> > int() rounds. Period.
>
>> Just not as well as other methods.
>
> Exactly as well as any other rounding methed.
Except it doesn't round up as a value to an integer as well as sprintf,
and the fact that truncation isn't "exactly" rounding.
>> >> it's not intended to round
>
>> > It is.
>
>> Just not accurately in every circumstance
>
> int() gives a precise answer. By definition, a precise (and correct
> ;-) answer can't be "non-accurate".
See the documentation. If you disagree with it, submit something that's
correct. Argue semantics all you like, it truncates, it doesn't round.
I suppose if you think that's the same effect, I can't help.
>> (where its own documentation recommends against using it)
>
> Documentation is absolutely wrong.
Why not submit something that's correct?
>> >> and suffers from side effects.
>
>> > There is no side effects.
>
>> According to the documentation it does.
>
> Nevertheless.
>
Nevertheless, someone I actually used to respect for their contributions
has resorted to acting like this and aligning their logic with a poster
that doesn't know what the /x modifer if for. Food for thought (not
that I expect it to matter).
--
Tim Greer, CEO/Founder/CTO, BurlyHost.com, Inc.
Shared Hosting, Reseller Hosting, Dedicated & Semi-Dedicated servers
and Custom Hosting. 24/7 support, 30 day guarantee, secure servers.
Industry's most experienced staff! -- Web Hosting With Muscle!
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 19 Dec 2008 18:03:54 -0800
From: Tim Greer <tim@burlyhost.com>
Subject: Re: Rounding up in perl
Message-Id: <foY2l.59530$yB4.20994@newsfe07.iad>
Ilya Zakharevich wrote:
> [A complimentary Cc of this posting was sent to
> Tim Greer
> <tim@burlyhost.com>], who wrote in article
> <hlV2l.55512$v37.17095@newsfe01.iad>:
>> Actually, I'm a little surprised that you'd respond like that, so
>> forgive the additional reply. int() truncates, and just because you
>> can
>> use it to round, doesn't mean that is its intended purpose. You
>> insist it's a function intended to round and not truncate?
Again, no reason for the "complimentary Cc". Thanks.
> If you want to go back in time, and repeat all these arguments again:
I wasn't involved in any of those previous arguments, I have no interest
in that. I prefer to discuss the topic, rather than argue about it
(though sometimes one seem inevitable when people feel the need to make
sarcastic or snide remarks).
> truncation is of 5 different (more or less commonly used) modes of
> rounding.
More or less truncates, rather than rounds, but if that's good enough
for you, I won't debate how you feel about it. I said in my first
response in this thread that it can certainly round. To be honest, I
have better things to do in life than argue with someone I'll never
meet, on a newsgroup about what a function actually technically does or
not.
Experts and non experts all agree and disagree on this particular topic
with the int() function in Perl. I seriously doubt debating it will
get anywhere. I simply said that it truncates, it doesn't round (it
can get rounding results though). If you wish to disprove the
documentation and update it, I know I'd appreciate it, and I'm sure
others would as well.
> Hope this helps,
Not really, but I appreciate the attempt. Still, I'd prefer not to
argue about it (I genuinely do not care, and the debate about this is
well documented), so I'll leave it here. Much respect.
--
Tim Greer, CEO/Founder/CTO, BurlyHost.com, Inc.
Shared Hosting, Reseller Hosting, Dedicated & Semi-Dedicated servers
and Custom Hosting. 24/7 support, 30 day guarantee, secure servers.
Industry's most experienced staff! -- Web Hosting With Muscle!
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 19 Dec 2008 17:13:09 -0800 (PST)
From: ojbaconstartle@gmail.com
Subject: self fisting anal how to - Free
Message-Id: <f07e95e3-bea7-48be-915b-ffe0a93b9c97@a12g2000pro.googlegroups.com>
self fisting anal how to
.
.
.
*******CLICK HERE********
http://club247.cn/self-fisting-anal-how-to
*****************************
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
self fisting anal how to
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 19 Dec 2008 17:12:53 -0800 (PST)
From: ojbaconstartle@gmail.com
Subject: teen girl moaning out in pleasure - Free
Message-Id: <c78b75c2-3d4d-4a3c-91ad-ac96146cb8a4@i20g2000prf.googlegroups.com>
teen girl moaning out in pleasure
.
.
.
*******CLICK HERE********
http://club247.cn/teen-girl-moaning-out-in-pleasure
*****************************
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
teen girl moaning out in pleasure
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 19 Dec 2008 17:24:02 -0800 (PST)
From: Todd Wade <waveright@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: The single biggest STUPIDITY in Perl ...
Message-Id: <334dc9b8-dac1-4b2d-bcaa-babfd4b5812f@n33g2000pri.googlegroups.com>
On Dec 11, 3:16 pm, jps <jpswe...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Dec 11, 8:32 pm, brian d foy <brian.d....@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > Is this, by any chance, being fixed in Perl6, btw?
>
> > Well, it probably gets worse, because now almost everything is an object. :)
>
> Well... Objects are a GOOOOD thing.
> References are a BAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAD thing.
References are bad for bad programmers. References are fast. This is
why perl is faster and uses less memory than python and ruby:
http://xodian.net/serendipity/index.php?/archives/27-Benchmark-PHP-vs.-Python-vs.-Perl-vs.-Ruby.html
Anyway, you're not complaining about references. You are complaining
that perl doesn't do automatic dereferencing (like its slower more
resource intensive cousins).
And to that I say... THANK THE HEAVENS ABOVE. Automatic dereferencing
removes a whole set of functionality needed to write concise programs.
It makes one write lines and lines of procedural code when all that
should be needed is a simple memory lookup.
Regards,
trwww
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 19 Dec 2008 17:12:22 -0800 (PST)
From: ojbaconstartle@gmail.com
Subject: wife taking on black cock video - Free
Message-Id: <92bc7522-94ed-42bf-bf6b-5a7c3f5ce989@s9g2000prm.googlegroups.com>
wife taking on black cock video
.
.
.
*******CLICK HERE********
http://club247.cn/wife-taking-on-black-cock-video
*****************************
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
wife taking on black cock video
------------------------------
Date: 6 Apr 2001 21:33:47 GMT (Last modified)
From: Perl-Users-Request@ruby.oce.orst.edu (Perl-Users-Digest Admin)
Subject: Digest Administrivia (Last modified: 6 Apr 01)
Message-Id: <null>
Administrivia:
#The Perl-Users Digest is a retransmission of the USENET newsgroup
#comp.lang.perl.misc. For subscription or unsubscription requests, send
#the single line:
#
# subscribe perl-users
#or:
# unsubscribe perl-users
#
#to almanac@ruby.oce.orst.edu.
NOTE: due to the current flood of worm email banging on ruby, the smtp
server on ruby has been shut off until further notice.
To submit articles to comp.lang.perl.announce, send your article to
clpa@perl.com.
#To request back copies (available for a week or so), send your request
#to almanac@ruby.oce.orst.edu with the command "send perl-users x.y",
#where x is the volume number and y is the issue number.
#For other requests pertaining to the digest, send mail to
#perl-users-request@ruby.oce.orst.edu. Do not waste your time or mine
#sending perl questions to the -request address, I don't have time to
#answer them even if I did know the answer.
------------------------------
End of Perl-Users Digest V11 Issue 2067
***************************************
