[30625] in Perl-Users-Digest
Perl-Users Digest, Issue: 1870 Volume: 11
daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (Perl-Users Digest)
Tue Sep 23 09:09:44 2008
Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2008 06:09:07 -0700 (PDT)
From: Perl-Users Digest <Perl-Users-Request@ruby.OCE.ORST.EDU>
To: Perl-Users@ruby.OCE.ORST.EDU (Perl-Users Digest)
Perl-Users Digest Tue, 23 Sep 2008 Volume: 11 Number: 1870
Today's topics:
Re: closing filehandle for tee STDOUT <yandry77@gmail.com>
expect.pm - stdout buffering issue <yandry77@gmail.com>
Re: expect.pm - stdout buffering issue <josef.moellers@fujitsu-siemens.com>
Re: expect.pm - stdout buffering issue <josef.moellers@fujitsu-siemens.com>
Re: expect.pm - stdout buffering issue <yandry77@gmail.com>
Re: How to unable the use of tainted mode in a CGI scri <Peter@PSDT.com>
Re: IPC:Shareable <clauskick@hotmail.com>
Posting Guidelines for comp.lang.perl.misc ($Revision: tadmc@seesig.invalid
Replacing binary data containing & using perl in HPUX 1 badkmail@gmail.com
Re: Replacing binary data containing & using perl in HP <peter@makholm.net>
Digest Administrivia (Last modified: 6 Apr 01) (Perl-Users-Digest Admin)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2008 01:10:59 -0700 (PDT)
From: Andry <yandry77@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: closing filehandle for tee STDOUT
Message-Id: <eebea1db-1d7a-4620-8e99-d56826f5f755@k7g2000hsd.googlegroups.com>
On Sep 22, 9:46=A0pm, "C.DeRykus" <c...@blv-sam-01.ca.boeing.com> wrote:
> On Sep 22, 2:16 am, Andry <yandr...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> > Hi all,
> > I have a problem trying to "tee" STDOUT at some intervals, opening and
> > closing filehandles.
> > The following is a sample script:
> > ******************************************************************
> > #!/usr/bin/perl -w
>
> > use File::Tee qw(tee);
>
> > $|=3D1;
>
> > open my $target1, '>', 'log1.txt';
> > tee STDOUT, $target1;
> > print "line one\n";
> > close $target1;
>
> > open my $target2, '>', 'log2.txt';
> > tee STDOUT, $target2;
> > print "line two\n";
> > close $target2;
> > *******************************************************************
> > Given the above script, I expect to write "line one" in log1.txt and
> > "line two" in log2.txt.
> > Instead I get both "line one" and "line two" in log1.txt (while
> > log2.txt only includes "line two").
> > So I cannot manage to close log1.txt after printing "line one".
>
> I believe you'll need to =A0save/reopen STDOUT:
>
> =A0open my $target1, '>', 'log1.txt' or die $!;
> =A0open(my $oldout, ">&STDOUT")
> =A0 =A0 =A0 or die "Can't dup STDOUT: $!";
>
> =A0tee STDOUT, $target1;
> =A0print "line one\n";
> =A0close STDOUT;
>
> =A0open STDOUT, ">&", $oldout =A0 or die "Can't dup \$oldout: $!";
> =A0open my $target2, '>', 'log2.txt';
>
> =A0tee STDOUT, $target2;
> =A0print "line two\n";
> =A0close $target2;
>
> --
> Charles DeRykus
Thanks a lot Charles!
That works perfectly.
Thanks to your suggestion I also found a web page showing several
examples for STDOUT manipulation:
http://perldoc.perl.org/functions/open.html
Andrea
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2008 03:35:20 -0700 (PDT)
From: Andry <yandry77@gmail.com>
Subject: expect.pm - stdout buffering issue
Message-Id: <18188d62-2a66-4752-bcee-eb68d68f1427@26g2000hsk.googlegroups.com>
Hi all,
I have the following script:
******************************************************************
#!/usr/bin/perl -w
use Expect;
$timeout = 5;
$|=1;
$exp = new Expect();
$exp->raw_pty(1);
$exp->log_file("output.log", "w");
$exp->spawn("ssh -l username 10.17.39.29");
$exp->expect($timeout, [ "[Pp]assword" => sub { $_[0]->send("password
\n"); } ]);
$exp->expect($timeout, [ "prompt-string" => sub { $_[0]->send("ls -l
\n"); } ]);
sleep 2;
$exp->expect($timeout, [ "prompt-string" => sub { $_[0]->send("ls
\n"); } ]);
sleep 5;
$exp->log_file(undef);
$exp->expect($timeout, [ "prompt-string" => sub { $_[0]->send("exit
\n"); } ]);
******************************************************************
When I run the script, the console (stdout) shows:
1) ssh (login...)...
2) sleeping 2 seconds
3) "ls -l" output
4) sleeping 5 seconds
... the script quits without displaying the output of the second
command "ls"
Even the log file does not contain the missing output.
Now if I put the following command at the end of the script:
$exp->soft_close();
Then the console shows the previously missing output ("ls") at the
very end of the script, but the log file does not include that yet.
It seems there is a general buffering problem with STDOUT.
How can I get things displayed and logged correctly and at the right
time?
Thanks,
Andrea
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2008 12:58:47 +0200
From: Josef Moellers <josef.moellers@fujitsu-siemens.com>
Subject: Re: expect.pm - stdout buffering issue
Message-Id: <gbai54$euv$1@nntp.fujitsu-siemens.com>
Andry wrote:
> Hi all,
> I have the following script:
> ******************************************************************
> #!/usr/bin/perl -w
> use Expect;
>
> $timeout = 5;
> $|=1;
>
> $exp = new Expect();
> $exp->raw_pty(1);
>
> $exp->log_file("output.log", "w");
>
> $exp->spawn("ssh -l username 10.17.39.29");
> $exp->expect($timeout, [ "[Pp]assword" => sub { $_[0]->send("password
> \n"); } ]);
> $exp->expect($timeout, [ "prompt-string" => sub { $_[0]->send("ls -l
> \n"); } ]);
> sleep 2;
> $exp->expect($timeout, [ "prompt-string" => sub { $_[0]->send("ls
> \n"); } ]);
> sleep 5;
>
> $exp->log_file(undef);
>
> $exp->expect($timeout, [ "prompt-string" => sub { $_[0]->send("exit
> \n"); } ]);
> ******************************************************************
>
> When I run the script, the console (stdout) shows:
> 1) ssh (login...)...
> 2) sleeping 2 seconds
> 3) "ls -l" output
> 4) sleeping 5 seconds
> ... the script quits without displaying the output of the second
> command "ls"
> Even the log file does not contain the missing output.
>
> Now if I put the following command at the end of the script:
> $exp->soft_close();
> Then the console shows the previously missing output ("ls") at the
> very end of the script, but the log file does not include that yet.
>
> It seems there is a general buffering problem with STDOUT.
> How can I get things displayed and logged correctly and at the right
> time?
More likeley: your expect strings don't match and your script just times
out:
> $timeout = 5;
vs.
> 4) sleeping 5 seconds
There are two logging facilities:
1. $exp->exp_internal(1);
IIRC that will tell you what your script expects and what it actually
receives.
2. $exp->log_user(1)
Can't recall what that does ;-)
I usually set these tow if I have problems.
Josef
--
These are my personal views and not those of Fujitsu Siemens Computers!
Josef Möllers (Pinguinpfleger bei FSC)
If failure had no penalty success would not be a prize (T. Pratchett)
Company Details: http://www.fujitsu-siemens.com/imprint.html
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2008 13:00:40 +0200
From: Josef Moellers <josef.moellers@fujitsu-siemens.com>
Subject: Re: expect.pm - stdout buffering issue
Message-Id: <gbai8m$euv$2@nntp.fujitsu-siemens.com>
Andry wrote:
> Hi all,
> I have the following script:
> ******************************************************************
> #!/usr/bin/perl -w
> use Expect;
>
> $timeout = 5;
> $|=1;
>
> $exp = new Expect();
> $exp->raw_pty(1);
>
> $exp->log_file("output.log", "w");
>
> $exp->spawn("ssh -l username 10.17.39.29");
> $exp->expect($timeout, [ "[Pp]assword" => sub { $_[0]->send("password
> \n"); } ]);
> $exp->expect($timeout, [ "prompt-string" => sub { $_[0]->send("ls -l
> \n"); } ]);
> sleep 2;
> $exp->expect($timeout, [ "prompt-string" => sub { $_[0]->send("ls
> \n"); } ]);
I just notice:
Maybe you want to send a \r rather than a \n?
Josef
--
These are my personal views and not those of Fujitsu Siemens Computers!
Josef Möllers (Pinguinpfleger bei FSC)
If failure had no penalty success would not be a prize (T. Pratchett)
Company Details: http://www.fujitsu-siemens.com/imprint.html
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2008 05:38:48 -0700 (PDT)
From: Andry <yandry77@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: expect.pm - stdout buffering issue
Message-Id: <7755621e-b1b5-4f04-a740-87df6d3c1830@l64g2000hse.googlegroups.com>
On Sep 23, 1:00=A0pm, Josef Moellers <josef.moell...@fujitsu-
siemens.com> wrote:
> Andry wrote:
> > Hi all,
> > I have the following script:
> > ******************************************************************
> > #!/usr/bin/perl -w
> > use Expect;
>
> > $timeout =3D 5;
> > $|=3D1;
>
> > $exp =3D new Expect();
> > $exp->raw_pty(1);
>
> > $exp->log_file("output.log", "w");
>
> > $exp->spawn("ssh -l username 10.17.39.29");
> > $exp->expect($timeout, [ "[Pp]assword" =3D> sub { $_[0]->send("password
> > \n"); } ]);
> > $exp->expect($timeout, [ "prompt-string" =3D> sub { $_[0]->send("ls -l
> > \n"); } ]);
> > sleep 2;
> > $exp->expect($timeout, [ "prompt-string" =3D> sub { $_[0]->send("ls
> > \n"); } ]);
>
> I just notice:
>
> Maybe you want to send a \r rather than a \n?
>
> Josef
> --
> These are my personal views and not those of Fujitsu Siemens Computers!
> Josef M=F6llers (Pinguinpfleger bei FSC)
> =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 If failure had no penalty success would not be a prize (T=
. =A0Pratchett)
> Company Details:http://www.fujitsu-siemens.com/imprint.html
Hi Josef,
The script is not timing out anywhere, even if I comment out
$timeout=3D5, the behavior is the same.
Even replacing \n with \r does not change anything.
I enabled the debug logging with exp_internal, but it doesn't look
very helpful in my case. Here is its output anyway (having the
soft_close command at the very end of the script):
********************************************************************
[root@fedora-c2 perl-scripts]# ./ssh.pl
Spawned 'ssh -l root 10.17.39.29'
spawn id(3)
Pid: 19863
Tty: /dev/pts/4
Expect::spawn('Expect=3DGLOB(0x9374dbc)','ssh -l root 10.17.39.29')
called at ./ssh.pl line 34
Starting EXPECT pattern matching...
Expect::expect('Expect=3DGLOB(0x9374dbc)',5,'ARRAY(0x938198c)') called
at ./ssh.pl line 37
spawn id(3): list of patterns:
#1: -re `[Pp]assword'
spawn id(3): Does `'
match:
pattern #1: -re `[Pp]assword'? No.
root@10.17.39.29's password:
spawn id(3): Does `root@10.17.39.29\'s password: '
match:
pattern #1: -re `[Pp]assword'? YES!!
Before match string: `root@10.17.39.29\'s '
Match string: `password'
After match string: `: '
Matchlist: ()
Calling hook CODE(0x9377204)...
Sending 'atis4713\n' to spawn id(3)
Expect::print('Expect=3DGLOB(0x9374dbc)','atis4713\x{a}') called at ./
ssh.pl line 37
main::__ANON__('Expect=3DGLOB(0x9374dbc)') called at /usr/lib/perl5/
site_perl/5.8.3/Expect.pm line 758
Expect::_multi_expect(5,'undef','ARRAY(0x9395304)') called at /usr/
lib/perl5/site_perl/5.8.3/Expect.pm line 563
Expect::expect('Expect=3DGLOB(0x9374dbc)',5,'ARRAY(0x938198c)') called
at ./ssh.pl line 37
Starting EXPECT pattern matching...
Expect::expect('Expect=3DGLOB(0x9374dbc)',5,'ARRAY(0x938198c)') called
at ./ssh.pl line 55
spawn id(3): list of patterns:
#1: -re `svr-mila'
spawn id(3): Does `: '
match:
pattern #1: -re `svr-mila'? No.
spawn id(3): Does `: \n'
match:
pattern #1: -re `svr-mila'? No.
Last login: Tue Sep 23 14:20:30 2008 from 10.17.91.83
Welcome to the Milan TestLab server
If you're not part of the TestLab team, you're not welcome anymore...
spawn id(3): Does `: \nLast login: Tue Sep 23 14:20:30 2008 from
10.17.91.83\r\r\nWelcome to the Milan TestLab server\r\nIf you\'re not
part of the TestLab team, you\'re not welcome anymore...\r\n\r\n'
match:
pattern #1: -re `svr-mila'? No.
[root@svr-mila-testlab2 ~]#
spawn id(3): Does `: \nLast login: Tue Sep 23 14:20:30 2008 from
10.17.91.83\r\r\nWelcome to the Milan TestLab server\r\nIf you\'re not
part of the TestLab team, you\'re not welcome anymore...\r\n\r
\n[root@svr-mila-testlab2 ~]# '
match:
pattern #1: -re `svr-mila'? YES!!
Before match string: `: \nLast login: Tue Sep 23 14:20:30 2008
from 10.17.91.83\r\r\nWelcome to the Milan TestLab server\r\nIf you
\'re not part of the TestLab team, you\'re not welcome anymore...\r\n\r
\n[root@'
Match string: `svr-mila'
After match string: `-testlab2 ~]# '
Matchlist: ()
Calling hook CODE(0x93772c4)...
Sending 'ls -l\n' to spawn id(3)
Expect::print('Expect=3DGLOB(0x9374dbc)','ls -l\x{a}') called at ./
ssh.pl line 53
main::__ANON__('Expect=3DGLOB(0x9374dbc)') called at /usr/lib/perl5/
site_perl/5.8.3/Expect.pm line 758
Expect::_multi_expect(5,'undef','ARRAY(0x93952f8)') called at /usr/
lib/perl5/site_perl/5.8.3/Expect.pm line 563
Expect::expect('Expect=3DGLOB(0x9374dbc)',5,'ARRAY(0x938198c)') called
at ./ssh.pl line 55
Starting EXPECT pattern matching...
Expect::expect('Expect=3DGLOB(0x9374dbc)',5,'ARRAY(0x938198c)') called
at ./ssh.pl line 70
spawn id(3): list of patterns:
#1: -re `svr-mila'
spawn id(3): Does `-testlab2 ~]# '
match:
pattern #1: -re `svr-mila'? No.
ls -l
total 2360
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 33980 Feb 8 2007 1
-rw------- 1 root root 1534 Feb 5 2007 anaconda-ks.cfg
drwxr-xr-x 2 root root 4096 Feb 5 2007 Desktop
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 38253 Feb 5 2007 install.log
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 4475 Feb 5 2007 install.log.syslog
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 2290308 Sep 23 14:21 sb-log.txt
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 3034 Feb 6 2007 xorg.conf.new
drwxr-xr-x 2 root root 4096 Feb 7 2007 yum-keys
[root@svr-mila-testlab2 ~]#
spawn id(3): Does `-testlab2 ~]# ls -l\r\n\033[00mtotal 2360\r\n-rw-r--
r-- 1 root root 33980 Feb 8 2007 \033[00m1\033[00m\r\n-rw------- 1
root root 1534 Feb 5 2007 \033[00manaconda-ks.cfg\033[00m\r
\ndrwxr-xr-x 2 root root 4096 Feb 5 2007 \033[01;34mDesktop
\033[00m\r\n-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 38253 Feb 5 2007
\033[00minstall.log\033[00m\r\n-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 4475 Feb 5
2007 \033[00minstall.log.syslog\033[00m\r\n-rw-r--r-- 1 root root
2290308 Sep 23 14:21 \033[00msb-log.txt\033[00m\r\n-rw-r--r-- 1 root
root 3034 Feb 6 2007 \033[00mxorg.conf.new\033[00m\r\ndrwxr-xr-x
2 root root 4096 Feb 7 2007 \033[0
1;34myum-keys\033[00m\r\n\033[m[root@svr-mila-testlab2 ~]# '
match:
pattern #1: -re `svr-mila'? YES!!
Before match string: `-testlab2 ~]# ls -l\r\n\033[00mtotal 2360\r
\n-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 33980 Feb 8 2007 \033[00m1\033[00m\r\n-
rw------- 1 root root 1534 Feb 5 2007 \033[00manaconda-ks.cfg
\033[00m\r\ndrwxr-xr-x 2 root root 4096 Feb 5 2007
\033[01;34mDesktop\033[00m\r\n-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 38253 Feb 5
2007 \033[00minstall.log\033[00m\r\n-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 4475
Feb 5 2007 \033[00minstall.log.syslog\033[00m\r\n-rw-r--r-- 1 root
root 2290308 Sep 23 14:21 \033[00msb-log.txt\033[00m\r\n-rw-r--r-- 1
root root 3034 Feb 6 2007 \033[00mxorg.conf.new\033[00m\r\ndrwxr-
xr-x 2 root root 4096 Feb 7 2007 \033[01;34myum-keys\033[00m\r\n
\033[m[root@'
Match string: `svr-mila'
After match string: `-testlab2 ~]# '
Matchlist: ()
Calling hook CODE(0x9377378)...
Sending 'ls\n' to spawn id(3)
Expect::print('Expect=3DGLOB(0x9374dbc)','ls\x{a}') called at ./ssh.pl
line 68
main::__ANON__('Expect=3DGLOB(0x9374dbc)') called at /usr/lib/perl5/
site_perl/5.8.3/Expect.pm line 758
Expect::_multi_expect(5,'undef','ARRAY(0x93819e0)') called at /usr/
lib/perl5/site_perl/5.8.3/Expect.pm line 563
Expect::expect('Expect=3DGLOB(0x9374dbc)',5,'ARRAY(0x938198c)') called
at ./ssh.pl line 70
Starting EXPECT pattern matching...
Expect::expect('Expect=3DGLOB(0x9374dbc)',5,'ARRAY(0x9375140)') called
at ./ssh.pl line 88
spawn id(3): list of patterns:
#1: -re `svr-mila'
spawn id(3): Does `-testlab2 ~]# '
match:
pattern #1: -re `svr-mila'? No.
ls
1 Desktop install.log.syslog xorg.conf.new
anaconda-ks.cfg install.log sb-log.txt yum-keys
[root@svr-mila-testlab2 ~]#
spawn id(3): Does `-testlab2 ~]# ls\r\n\033[00m
\033[00m1\033[00m
\033[01;34mDesktop\033[00m \033[00minstall.log.syslog\033[00m
\033[00mxorg.conf.new\033[00m\r\n\033[00manaconda-ks.cfg\033[00m
\033[00minstall.log\033[00m \033[00msb-log.txt\033[00m
\033[01;34myum-keys\033[00m\r\n\033[m[root@svr-mila-testlab2 ~]# '
match:
pattern #1: -re `svr-mila'? YES!!
Before match string: `-testlab2 ~]# ls\r\n\033[00m
\033[00m1\033[00m
\033[01;34mDesktop\033[00m \033[00minstall.log.syslog
\033[00m \033[00mxorg.conf.new\033[00m\r\n\033[00manaconda-ks.cfg
\033[00m \033[00minstall.log\033[00m \033[00msb-log.txt
\033[00m \033[01;34myum-keys\033[00m\r\n\033[m[root@'
Match string: `svr-mila'
After match string: `-testlab2 ~]# '
Matchlist: ()
Calling hook CODE(0x9377444)...
Sending 'exit\n' to spawn id(3)
Expect::print('Expect=3DGLOB(0x9374dbc)','exit\x{a}') called at ./
ssh.pl line 88
main::__ANON__('Expect=3DGLOB(0x9374dbc)') called at /usr/lib/perl5/
site_perl/5.8.3/Expect.pm line 758
Expect::_multi_expect(5,'undef','ARRAY(0x9382408)') called at /usr/
lib/perl5/site_perl/5.8.3/Expect.pm line 563
Expect::expect('Expect=3DGLOB(0x9374dbc)',5,'ARRAY(0x9375140)') called
at ./ssh.pl line 88
exit
logout
Connection to 10.17.39.29 closed.
[root@fedora-c2 perl-scripts]#
[root@fedora-c2 perl-scripts]#
********************************************************************
As I said in my first post, the operations of the scripts look out of
sync since the sleep commands are executed in the wrong order and the
last "ls" output is not shown until the very end of the script (only
if use soft_close command and the log_file does not caoture that
output anyway).
The commands should be executed in the following order:
ls -l
sleep 2
ls
sleep 5
Instead they are executed like that:
sleep 2
ls -l
sleep 5
ls (only visible if soft_close is present and not captured by log_file
anyway)
Any idea?
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2008 02:47:45 -0700
From: Peter Scott <Peter@PSDT.com>
Subject: Re: How to unable the use of tainted mode in a CGI script ?
Message-Id: <pan.2008.09.23.09.46.43.17580@PSDT.com>
On Mon, 22 Sep 2008 19:17:48 +0200, Azol wrote:
> I have to use a long perl script which use the "tainted mode" (-T
> option), but the hoster we use doesn't allow this option unless on
> dedicated server (and, of course, we can't pay a dedicated server).
I'm curious; what happens if you run a trivial CGI program with -T on this
host? Because I can't figure out how they would prohibit -T without
building perl from a customized source, and I cannot fathom a
justification for doing so.
--
Peter Scott
http://www.perlmedic.com/
http://www.perldebugged.com/
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2008 02:56:58 -0700 (PDT)
From: Snorik <clauskick@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: IPC:Shareable
Message-Id: <31334884-5a0e-4b0d-a715-4b23c54b231d@d1g2000hsg.googlegroups.com>
Ok, when testing with another directory tree, I saw the following:
IPC::Sha(in cleanup) IPC::ShareLite store() error: No space left on
device at /opt/iw-home/iw-perl/site/lib/Tie/ShareLite.pm line 366
Then, on retry, it worked again - therefore my question: Do I have to
clean up anything after I used it?
I tried using "destroy => 'yes'", but that yields "IPC::ShareLite
fetch() error: Invalid argument at /opt/iw-home/iw-perl/site/lib/Tie/
ShareLite.pm line 342", telling me (not sure) that the object is
destroyed too early.
Some explanation what to do for this would be great :)
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2008 07:17:26 GMT
From: tadmc@seesig.invalid
Subject: Posting Guidelines for comp.lang.perl.misc ($Revision: 1.8 $)
Message-Id: <aK0Ck.1452$yr3.386@nlpi068.nbdc.sbc.com>
Outline
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Posting to comp.lang.perl.misc
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How to participate (post) in the clpmisc community
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-----------------------------------------------------------------
Posting Guidelines for comp.lang.perl.misc ($Revision: 1.8 $)
This newsgroup, commonly called clpmisc, is a technical newsgroup
intended to be used for discussion of Perl related issues (except job
postings), whether it be comments or questions.
As you would expect, clpmisc discussions are usually very technical in
nature and there are conventions for conduct in technical newsgroups
going somewhat beyond those in non-technical newsgroups.
The article at:
http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html
describes how to get answers from technical people in general.
This article describes things that you should, and should not, do to
increase your chances of getting an answer to your Perl question. It is
available in POD, HTML and plain text formats at:
http://www.rehabitation.com/clpmisc.shtml
For more information about netiquette in general, see the "Netiquette
Guidelines" at:
http://andrew2.andrew.cmu.edu/rfc/rfc1855.html
A note to newsgroup "regulars":
Do not use these guidelines as a "license to flame" or other
meanness. It is possible that a poster is unaware of things
discussed here. Give them the benefit of the doubt, and just
help them learn how to post, rather than assume that they do
know and are being the "bad kind" of Lazy.
A note about technical terms used here:
In this document, we use words like "must" and "should" as
they're used in technical conversation (such as you will
encounter in this newsgroup). When we say that you *must* do
something, we mean that if you don't do that something, then
it's unlikely that you will benefit much from this group.
We're not bossing you around; we're making the point without
lots of words.
Do *NOT* send email to the maintainer of these guidelines. It will be
discarded unread. The guidelines belong to the newsgroup so all
discussion should appear in the newsgroup. I am just the secretary that
writes down the consensus of the group.
Before posting to comp.lang.perl.misc
Must
This section describes things that you *must* do before posting to
clpmisc, in order to maximize your chances of getting meaningful replies
to your inquiry and to avoid getting flamed for being lazy and trying to
have others do your work.
The perl distribution includes documentation that is copied to your hard
drive when you install perl. Also installed is a program for looking
things up in that (and other) documentation named 'perldoc'.
You should either find out where the docs got installed on your system,
or use perldoc to find them for you. Type "perldoc perldoc" to learn how
to use perldoc itself. Type "perldoc perl" to start reading Perl's
standard documentation.
Check the Perl Frequently Asked Questions (FAQ)
Checking the FAQ before posting is required in Big 8 newsgroups in
general, there is nothing clpmisc-specific about this requirement.
You are expected to do this in nearly all newsgroups.
You can use the "-q" switch with perldoc to do a word search of the
questions in the Perl FAQs.
Check the other standard Perl docs (*.pod)
The perl distribution comes with much more documentation than is
available for most other newsgroups, so in clpmisc you should also
see if you can find an answer in the other (non-FAQ) standard docs
before posting.
It is *not* required, or even expected, that you actually *read* all of
Perl's standard docs, only that you spend a few minutes searching them
before posting.
Try doing a word-search in the standard docs for some words/phrases
taken from your problem statement or from your very carefully worded
"Subject:" header.
Really Really Should
This section describes things that you *really should* do before posting
to clpmisc.
Lurk for a while before posting
This is very important and expected in all newsgroups. Lurking means
to monitor a newsgroup for a period to become familiar with local
customs. Each newsgroup has specific customs and rituals. Knowing
these before you participate will help avoid embarrassing social
situations. Consider yourself to be a foreigner at first!
Search a Usenet archive
There are tens of thousands of Perl programmers. It is very likely
that your question has already been asked (and answered). See if you
can find where it has already been answered.
One such searchable archive is:
http://groups.google.com/advanced_group_search
If You Like
This section describes things that you *can* do before posting to
clpmisc.
Check Other Resources
You may want to check in books or on web sites to see if you can
find the answer to your question.
But you need to consider the source of such information: there are a
lot of very poor Perl books and web sites, and several good ones
too, of course.
Posting to comp.lang.perl.misc
There can be 200 messages in clpmisc in a single day. Nobody is going to
read every article. They must decide somehow which articles they are
going to read, and which they will skip.
Your post is in competition with 199 other posts. You need to "win"
before a person who can help you will even read your question.
These sections describe how you can help keep your article from being
one of the "skipped" ones.
Is there a better place to ask your question?
Question should be about Perl, not about the application area
It can be difficult to separate out where your problem really is,
but you should make a conscious effort to post to the most
applicable newsgroup. That is, after all, where you are the most
likely to find the people who know how to answer your question.
Being able to "partition" a problem is an essential skill for
effectively troubleshooting programming problems. If you don't get
that right, you end up looking for answers in the wrong places.
It should be understood that you may not know that the root of your
problem is not Perl-related (the two most frequent ones are CGI and
Operating System related), so off-topic postings will happen from
time to time. Be gracious when someone helps you find a better place
to ask your question by pointing you to a more applicable newsgroup.
How to participate (post) in the clpmisc community
Carefully choose the contents of your Subject header
You have 40 precious characters of Subject to win out and be one of
the posts that gets read. Don't waste them. Take care while
composing them, they are the key that opens the door to getting an
answer.
Spend them indicating what aspect of Perl others will find if they
should decide to read your article.
Do not spend them indicating "experience level" (guru, newbie...).
Do not spend them pleading (please read, urgent, help!...).
Do not spend them on non-Subjects (Perl question, one-word
Subject...)
For more information on choosing a Subject see "Choosing Good
Subject Lines":
http://www.cpan.org/authors/id/D/DM/DMR/subjects.post
Part of the beauty of newsgroup dynamics, is that you can contribute
to the community with your very first post! If your choice of
Subject leads a fellow Perler to find the thread you are starting,
then even asking a question helps us all.
Use an effective followup style
When composing a followup, quote only enough text to establish the
context for the comments that you will add. Always indicate who
wrote the quoted material. Never quote an entire article. Never
quote a .signature (unless that is what you are commenting on).
Intersperse your comments *following* each section of quoted text to
which they relate. Unappreciated followup styles are referred to as
"top-posting", "Jeopardy" (because the answer comes before the
question), or "TOFU" (Text Over, Fullquote Under).
Reversing the chronology of the dialog makes it much harder to
understand (some folks won't even read it if written in that style).
For more information on quoting style, see:
http://web.presby.edu/~nnqadmin/nnq/nquote.html
Speak Perl rather than English, when possible
Perl is much more precise than natural language. Saying it in Perl
instead will avoid misunderstanding your question or problem.
Do not say: I have variable with "foo\tbar" in it.
Instead say: I have $var = "foo\tbar", or I have $var = 'foo\tbar',
or I have $var = <DATA> (and show the data line).
Ask perl to help you
You can ask perl itself to help you find common programming mistakes
by doing two things: enable warnings (perldoc warnings) and enable
"strict"ures (perldoc strict).
You should not bother the hundreds/thousands of readers of the
newsgroup without first seeing if a machine can help you find your
problem. It is demeaning to be asked to do the work of a machine. It
will annoy the readers of your article.
You can look up any of the messages that perl might issue to find
out what the message means and how to resolve the potential mistake
(perldoc perldiag). If you would like perl to look them up for you,
you can put "use diagnostics;" near the top of your program.
Do not re-type Perl code
Use copy/paste or your editor's "import" function rather than
attempting to type in your code. If you make a typo you will get
followups about your typos instead of about the question you are
trying to get answered.
Provide enough information
If you do the things in this item, you will have an Extremely Good
chance of getting people to try and help you with your problem!
These features are a really big bonus toward your question winning
out over all of the other posts that you are competing with.
First make a short (less than 20-30 lines) and *complete* program
that illustrates the problem you are having. People should be able
to run your program by copy/pasting the code from your article. (You
will find that doing this step very often reveals your problem
directly. Leading to an answer much more quickly and reliably than
posting to Usenet.)
Describe *precisely* the input to your program. Also provide example
input data for your program. If you need to show file input, use the
__DATA__ token (perldata.pod) to provide the file contents inside of
your Perl program.
Show the output (including the verbatim text of any messages) of
your program.
Describe how you want the output to be different from what you are
getting.
If you have no idea at all of how to code up your situation, be sure
to at least describe the 2 things that you *do* know: input and
desired output.
Do not provide too much information
Do not just post your entire program for debugging. Most especially
do not post someone *else's* entire program.
Do not post binaries, HTML, or MIME
clpmisc is a text only newsgroup. If you have images or binaries
that explain your question, put them in a publically accessible
place (like a Web server) and provide a pointer to that location. If
you include code, cut and paste it directly in the message body.
Don't attach anything to the message. Don't post vcards or HTML.
Many people (and even some Usenet servers) will automatically filter
out such messages. Many people will not be able to easily read your
post. Plain text is something everyone can read.
Social faux pas to avoid
The first two below are symptoms of lots of FAQ asking here in clpmisc.
It happens so often that folks will assume that it is happening yet
again. If you have looked but not found, or found but didn't understand
the docs, say so in your article.
Asking a Frequently Asked Question
It should be understood that you may have missed the applicable FAQ
when you checked, which is not a big deal. But if the Frequently
Asked Question is worded similar to your question, folks will assume
that you did not look at all. Don't become indignant at pointers to
the FAQ, particularly if it solves your problem.
Asking a question easily answered by a cursory doc search
If folks think you have not even tried the obvious step of reading
the docs applicable to your problem, they are likely to become
annoyed.
If you are flamed for not checking when you *did* check, then just
shrug it off (and take the answer that you got).
Asking for emailed answers
Emailed answers benefit one person. Posted answers benefit the
entire community. If folks can take the time to answer your
question, then you can take the time to go get the answer in the
same place where you asked the question.
It is OK to ask for a *copy* of the answer to be emailed, but many
will ignore such requests anyway. If you munge your address, you
should never expect (or ask) to get email in response to a Usenet
post.
Ask the question here, get the answer here (maybe).
Beware of saying "doesn't work"
This is a "red flag" phrase. If you find yourself writing that,
pause and see if you can't describe what is not working without
saying "doesn't work". That is, describe how it is not what you
want.
Sending a "stealth" Cc copy
A "stealth Cc" is when you both email and post a reply without
indicating *in the body* that you are doing so.
Be extra cautious when you get upset
Count to ten before composing a followup when you are upset
This is recommended in all Usenet newsgroups. Here in clpmisc, most
flaming sub-threads are not about any feature of Perl at all! They
are most often for what was seen as a breach of netiquette. If you
have lurked for a bit, then you will know what is expected and won't
make such posts in the first place.
But if you get upset, wait a while before writing your followup. I
recommend waiting at least 30 minutes.
Count to ten after composing and before posting when you are upset
After you have written your followup, wait *another* 30 minutes
before committing yourself by posting it. You cannot take it back
once it has been said.
AUTHOR
Tad McClellan and many others on the comp.lang.perl.misc newsgroup.
--
Tad McClellan
email: perl -le "print scalar reverse qq/moc.noitatibaher\100cmdat/"
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2008 02:06:00 -0700 (PDT)
From: badkmail@gmail.com
Subject: Replacing binary data containing & using perl in HPUX 11.11
Message-Id: <0580c804-8e16-4a1e-a2b7-9b58cfa11d44@n38g2000prl.googlegroups.com>
Using Perl, I want to search for a binary data containing & and
alphabets and replace with another string. I am getting an error as
put below:
bash-3.2# echo fsdalf&l91Afjkdf | perl -p -e 's/l91A/l2A/g;'
[1] 11326
fsdalf
bash: l91Afjkdf: command not found
[1]+ Done echo fsdalf
bash-3.2#
My requirement is: I have a binary data which can contain any byte
from 0x00 to 0xFF. I want to search for particular set of characters,
say &A12B and replace it with another set of characters, say &A4B.
Please let me know how to do the same. Thanks in advance.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2008 11:47:20 +0200
From: Peter Makholm <peter@makholm.net>
Subject: Re: Replacing binary data containing & using perl in HPUX 11.11
Message-Id: <87y71j2nyv.fsf@hacking.dk>
badkmail@gmail.com writes:
> bash-3.2# echo fsdalf&l91Afjkdf | perl -p -e 's/l91A/l2A/g;'
> [1] 11326
> fsdalf
> bash: l91Afjkdf: command not found
> [1]+ Done echo fsdalf
> bash-3.2#
This is not at perl issue, but you shell using the ampersand as part
of it's syntax. You'll have to quote the argument to echo:
$ echo 'fsdalf&l91Afjkdf' | perl -p -e 's/l91A/l2A/g;'
fsdalf&l2Afjkdf
$
//Makholm
------------------------------
Date: 6 Apr 2001 21:33:47 GMT (Last modified)
From: Perl-Users-Request@ruby.oce.orst.edu (Perl-Users-Digest Admin)
Subject: Digest Administrivia (Last modified: 6 Apr 01)
Message-Id: <null>
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------------------------------
End of Perl-Users Digest V11 Issue 1870
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