[30543] in Perl-Users-Digest
Perl-Users Digest, Issue: 1786 Volume: 11
daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (Perl-Users Digest)
Mon Aug 11 18:09:48 2008
Date: Mon, 11 Aug 2008 15:09:12 -0700 (PDT)
From: Perl-Users Digest <Perl-Users-Request@ruby.OCE.ORST.EDU>
To: Perl-Users@ruby.OCE.ORST.EDU (Perl-Users Digest)
Perl-Users Digest Mon, 11 Aug 2008 Volume: 11 Number: 1786
Today's topics:
Re: CLPM - a help group? <m@rtij.nl.invlalid>
Re: CLPM - a help group? sln@netherlands.com
Re: CLPM - a help group? <worrall+unet@remove.cs.bris.ac.uk>
Re: CLPM - a help group? <worrall+unet@remove.cs.bris.ac.uk>
Re: CLPM - a help group? <worrall+unet@remove.cs.bris.ac.uk>
Re: CLPM - a help group? <worrall+unet@remove.cs.bris.ac.uk>
Re: Discussion forum sofware in perl (Randal L. Schwartz)
Re: Discussion forum sofware in perl <john@castleamber.com>
Re: Discussion forum sofware in perl <John.Smith@invalid.com>
Re: double slash operator syntax question <justin.0805@purestblue.com>
Re: double slash operator syntax question <ben@morrow.me.uk>
Re: double slash operator syntax question <usenet@larseighner.com>
Digest Administrivia (Last modified: 6 Apr 01) (Perl-Users-Digest Admin)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Mon, 11 Aug 2008 22:52:24 +0200
From: Martijn Lievaart <m@rtij.nl.invlalid>
Subject: Re: CLPM - a help group?
Message-Id: <pan.2008.08.11.20.52.24@rtij.nl.invlalid>
On Fri, 08 Aug 2008 18:48:53 -0700, Adam Worrall wrote:
> Charlton Wilbur wrote:
>>>>>>> "AW" == Adam Worrall <worrall+unet@cs.bris.ac.uk> writes:
>>
>> >> But no matter. You're just another shithead who won't be around
>> >> in a year when I'm still answering questions and helping people.
>>
>> AW> I would expect you, the FAQ maintainer of all people, to
>> present AW> yourself in the way you yourself would like to be
>> treated, AW> rather than attempting to refute an argument with a
>> "fuck you."
>>
>> Were you making an actual argument, rather than simply a ludicrous and
>> insulting attempt at proof by repeated assertion, you might be correct.
>
> Are you kidding me? I was entirely civil. I presented my argument. I
> haven't simply repeated myself (but sometimes when it falls on death
> ears one has little recourse than to repeat themselves at some level.)
>
> I'm not the one who replied, displaying argumentative skills of a 10
> year old. I've seen more intelligent rebuttals from Paris Hilton for
> pete's sake.
Well that sums it up. As Paris Hilton can make NO intelligent rebuttals,
you've betrayed yourself for what you are.
But seriously, you think a newsgroup should change the way it works
because you feel like it. You keep repeating the same non arguments. You
think you make an intelligent argument, when in fact, you display the
social skill level of a 10 year old.
That kind of behavior can even make Brian say the F word. If he hadn't,
someone else would have.
You are welcome to return here once you've acquired some social clue,
until then, please FOAD.
M4
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 11 Aug 2008 21:36:54 GMT
From: sln@netherlands.com
Subject: Re: CLPM - a help group?
Message-Id: <6pb1a4t3nc7qvoll6us1en2qal544vc5o6@4ax.com>
On Mon, 11 Aug 2008 22:52:24 +0200, Martijn Lievaart <m@rtij.nl.invlalid> wrote:
>On Fri, 08 Aug 2008 18:48:53 -0700, Adam Worrall wrote:
>
>> Charlton Wilbur wrote:
>>>>>>>> "AW" == Adam Worrall <worrall+unet@cs.bris.ac.uk> writes:
>>>
>>> >> But no matter. You're just another shithead who won't be around
>>> >> in a year when I'm still answering questions and helping people.
>>>
>>> AW> I would expect you, the FAQ maintainer of all people, to
>>> present AW> yourself in the way you yourself would like to be
>>> treated, AW> rather than attempting to refute an argument with a
>>> "fuck you."
>>>
>>> Were you making an actual argument, rather than simply a ludicrous and
>>> insulting attempt at proof by repeated assertion, you might be correct.
>>
>> Are you kidding me? I was entirely civil. I presented my argument. I
>> haven't simply repeated myself (but sometimes when it falls on death
>> ears one has little recourse than to repeat themselves at some level.)
>>
>> I'm not the one who replied, displaying argumentative skills of a 10
>> year old. I've seen more intelligent rebuttals from Paris Hilton for
>> pete's sake.
>
>Well that sums it up. As Paris Hilton can make NO intelligent rebuttals,
>you've betrayed yourself for what you are.
>
>But seriously, you think a newsgroup should change the way it works
>because you feel like it. You keep repeating the same non arguments. You
>think you make an intelligent argument, when in fact, you display the
>social skill level of a 10 year old.
>
>That kind of behavior can even make Brian say the F word. If he hadn't,
>someone else would have.
>
>You are welcome to return here once you've acquired some social clue,
>until then, please FOAD.
>
>M4
Well, I'm glad you have made the summation and its over.
I've read the FAQ for along time now, so I can only say
thanks to BDF. Unless your in his shoes, you havn't walked
the mile.
The point by Adam meanwhile, at its heart, isin't dissing
BDF, or any other people who provide help.
Apparently, Adam's objection is about 'control', as some of us here
(not me), he contends seek to 'control' the how/why/whatfor the
daily manutia that glows from this group.
Am I right on that Adam?
sln
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 11 Aug 2008 14:41:22 -0700
From: Adam Worrall <worrall+unet@remove.cs.bris.ac.uk>
Subject: Re: CLPM - a help group?
Message-Id: <7m2ok.35530$ZE5.1906@nlpi061.nbdc.sbc.com>
Dr.Ruud wrote:
> Adam Worrall schreef:
>
>> How can a _volunteer_ service be _obligated_ to do anything? They are
>> volunteers...
>
> They will be sent away when they don't. You are not contributing so you
> should really leave now.
And you people complain when someone starts dictating policy... what the
hell do you call this?
- Adam
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 11 Aug 2008 14:49:40 -0700
From: Adam Worrall <worrall+unet@remove.cs.bris.ac.uk>
Subject: Re: CLPM - a help group?
Message-Id: <Vt2ok.35532$ZE5.31776@nlpi061.nbdc.sbc.com>
Tad J McClellan wrote:
> Adam Worrall <worrall+unet@cs.bris.ac.uk> wrote:
>> RedGrittyBrick wrote:
>>> Adam Worrall wrote:
>>>
>>> <rant omitted>
>>>
>>> According to Google Groups you've made no contribution to this newsgroup
>>> in the last decade. You now pop up and your only action is to start
>>> telling regular contributors how they should be behaving.
>> On the contrary, I did no such thing. I commented on my dislike for the
>> regular contributors stance that they take that unless we do as _they_
>> say, we are not part of the "community." And I have good reasons for
>> leaving this news group years ago. People like you and the "regular
>> contributors" make it very clear why many good people left this group.
{...}
> Effecting social change is pretty much impossible without having
> some supporters of the changed position from within the society.
Why do you assume _everyone_ agrees with you?
> You have taken a pretty good shot at gaining a 2nd supporter of
> your position, but I haven't seen one yet.
So you disagree a news group like this functions as a volunteer help
service? Haven't you repeatedly made the case that everyone helps
voluntarily? If that's so, how can my statement be wrong?
> After a "sufficient" number of repetitions of the rationale for
> a changed position, further repetition is increasingly unlikely
> to change the outcome.
You don't know what you're talking about. The statement was that a news
groups like this functions as a _voluntary_ help desk. No one is
obligated to answer anything but they do because they want to.
You your self have said the same thing this on many occasions but you
have twisted my words around so much you completely forgot what the
original meaning was. Big surprise.
- Adam
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 11 Aug 2008 14:54:17 -0700
From: Adam Worrall <worrall+unet@remove.cs.bris.ac.uk>
Subject: Re: CLPM - a help group?
Message-Id: <fy2ok.35533$ZE5.12134@nlpi061.nbdc.sbc.com>
Martijn Lievaart wrote:
> On Fri, 08 Aug 2008 18:48:53 -0700, Adam Worrall wrote:
>
>> Charlton Wilbur wrote:
>>>>>>>> "AW" == Adam Worrall <worrall+unet@cs.bris.ac.uk> writes:
>>> >> But no matter. You're just another shithead who won't be around
>>> >> in a year when I'm still answering questions and helping people.
>>>
>>> AW> I would expect you, the FAQ maintainer of all people, to
>>> present AW> yourself in the way you yourself would like to be
>>> treated, AW> rather than attempting to refute an argument with a
>>> "fuck you."
>>>
>>> Were you making an actual argument, rather than simply a ludicrous and
>>> insulting attempt at proof by repeated assertion, you might be correct.
>> Are you kidding me? I was entirely civil. I presented my argument. I
>> haven't simply repeated myself (but sometimes when it falls on death
>> ears one has little recourse than to repeat themselves at some level.)
>>
>> I'm not the one who replied, displaying argumentative skills of a 10
>> year old. I've seen more intelligent rebuttals from Paris Hilton for
>> pete's sake.
>
>
> But seriously, you think a newsgroup should change the way it works
> because you feel like it.
When did I say that? All I said was that it functions like a _volunteer_
help desk, and people like Tad completely twisted what I said. I never
said I wanted to change the group, that was a big assumption made by
someone(s) other than myself.
> That kind of behavior can even make Brian say the F word. If he hadn't,
> someone else would have.
I don't know, but it certainly wasn't warranted and it's not my fault he
lost control of his faculties of a simple comment.
> You are welcome to return here once you've acquired some social clue,
How about you acquire some reading comprehension skills and start
thinking for yourself instead of allowing people like Tad to do the
thinking for you based on things I didn't actually say.
- Adam
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 11 Aug 2008 15:01:16 -0700
From: Adam Worrall <worrall+unet@remove.cs.bris.ac.uk>
Subject: Re: CLPM - a help group?
Message-Id: <NE2ok.35534$ZE5.6769@nlpi061.nbdc.sbc.com>
sln@netherlands.com wrote:
> On Mon, 11 Aug 2008 22:52:24 +0200, Martijn Lievaart <m@rtij.nl.invlalid> wrote:
>
>> On Fri, 08 Aug 2008 18:48:53 -0700, Adam Worrall wrote:
>>
>>> Charlton Wilbur wrote:
>>>>>>>>> "AW" == Adam Worrall <worrall+unet@cs.bris.ac.uk> writes:
>>>> >> But no matter. You're just another shithead who won't be around
>>>> >> in a year when I'm still answering questions and helping people.
>>>>
>>>> AW> I would expect you, the FAQ maintainer of all people, to
>>>> present AW> yourself in the way you yourself would like to be
>>>> treated, AW> rather than attempting to refute an argument with a
>>>> "fuck you."
>>>>
>>>> Were you making an actual argument, rather than simply a ludicrous and
>>>> insulting attempt at proof by repeated assertion, you might be correct.
>>> Are you kidding me? I was entirely civil. I presented my argument. I
>>> haven't simply repeated myself (but sometimes when it falls on death
>>> ears one has little recourse than to repeat themselves at some level.)
>>>
>>> I'm not the one who replied, displaying argumentative skills of a 10
>>> year old. I've seen more intelligent rebuttals from Paris Hilton for
>>> pete's sake.
>> Well that sums it up. As Paris Hilton can make NO intelligent rebuttals,
>> you've betrayed yourself for what you are.
>>
>> But seriously, you think a newsgroup should change the way it works
>> because you feel like it. You keep repeating the same non arguments. You
>> think you make an intelligent argument, when in fact, you display the
>> social skill level of a 10 year old.
>>
>> That kind of behavior can even make Brian say the F word. If he hadn't,
>> someone else would have.
>>
>> You are welcome to return here once you've acquired some social clue,
>> until then, please FOAD.
>>
>> M4
>
> Well, I'm glad you have made the summation and its over.
> I've read the FAQ for along time now, so I can only say
> thanks to BDF. Unless your in his shoes, you havn't walked
> the mile.
For the record, I respect Brain, and I have been in those shoes before,
and there really wasn't any reason for his profane outburst, but I don't
think any less of him. I know we all have our down days.
> The point by Adam meanwhile, at its heart, isin't dissing
> BDF, or any other people who provide help.
>
> Apparently, Adam's objection is about 'control', as some of us here
> (not me), he contends seek to 'control' the how/why/whatfor the
> daily manutia that glows from this group.
You've completely lost what I said and instead listening to people who
want to believe their own view. Yes, there are people here who seem to
expect that you follow their every whim, or I'm sure there wouldn't be
someone to bring such a topic up every month or so.
For the record, my beef was that some people say this isn't a "help
desk" and all I really said was this news group, like many others,
operates just like a volunteer help desk, and this is true, because it's
the same thing the regular contributors have said over the years in
different words.
The fact that I said it in a wording _they_ didn't approve of
demonstrates exactly that they in fact expect a level of obedience -
they tell you something and they act like you should never question what
they say.
/me waits for the next handful of lemmings to reply and deny all this.
- Adam
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 11 Aug 2008 07:27:55 -0700
From: merlyn@stonehenge.com (Randal L. Schwartz)
Subject: Re: Discussion forum sofware in perl
Message-Id: <86bpzzmxsk.fsf@blue.stonehenge.com>
>>>>> "John" == John <John.Smith@invalid.com> writes:
John> What is your perl generated discussion forum software? Preferable
John> free/gnu.
What the world doesn't need is one more web-based discussion forum.
Since your questions are coming in via mail anyway, set up a (possibly
moderated) submission address with a web searchable archive, or just
adding a GMANE subscription, which will give you web-submissions and
NNTP access. By keeping it as ordinary mail and NNTP, those of us
who subscribe to more than one mailing list can use a common facility,
rather than going to *this* funky web site for *this* list, and *that*
completely different funky web site for *that* list.
People who keep creating different web forum setups drive me crazy.
They're doing the net more harm than good.
print "Just another Perl hacker,"; # the original
--
Randal L. Schwartz - Stonehenge Consulting Services, Inc. - +1 503 777 0095
<merlyn@stonehenge.com> <URL:http://www.stonehenge.com/merlyn/>
Smalltalk/Perl/Unix consulting, Technical writing, Comedy, etc. etc.
See http://methodsandmessages.vox.com/ for Smalltalk and Seaside discussion
------------------------------
Date: 11 Aug 2008 14:45:32 GMT
From: John Bokma <john@castleamber.com>
Subject: Re: Discussion forum sofware in perl
Message-Id: <Xns9AF76344785Acastleamber@130.133.1.4>
John <John.Smith@invalid.com> wrote:
> What is your perl generated discussion forum software? Preferable
> free/gnu.
>
> What I need in addition to features that most forum software has:
>
> - when someone posts something administrator gets a copy via email
>
> - administrator can upload messages as if someone had posted them.
>
> The latter is especially important.
You probably can do that using web automation. I have done something
similar in the past for a PHPbb forum.
> I maintain a
> ask-a-question-and-we-reply forum. Often members skip the baord ask
> directly via email. I reply them via email but I would like to upload
> the question and my answer to the board so others can see the question
> and my answer in hopes someone would benefit from the answer as well.
>
> I can do perl code myself but my current perl board I have sofware has
> a message proprietary system where I've not been able to decipher the
> message structure.
If the messages are stored in a database, it's not that difficult to add
the former (I've added a simple RSS feed to the aforementioned PHPbb forum
that way).
--
John
http://johnbokma.com/perl/
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 11 Aug 2008 21:51:11 +0300
From: John <John.Smith@invalid.com>
Subject: Re: Discussion forum sofware in perl
Message-Id: <cd21a4ptmpmft528vj3ooeqmpeo0emdhuk@4ax.com>
John Bokma <john@castleamber.com> wrote:
>
>If the messages are stored in a database, it's not that difficult to add
>the former (I've added a simple RSS feed to the aforementioned PHPbb forum
>that way).
The problem is that the database format is proprietary and not documented. To
make thing more complicated the data is spread between a number of files.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 11 Aug 2008 13:42:47 -0000
From: Justin C <justin.0805@purestblue.com>
Subject: Re: double slash operator syntax question
Message-Id: <288a.48a041d7.60d46@zem>
On 2008-08-11, Peter J. Holzer <hjp-usenet2@hjp.at> wrote:
> On 2008-08-11 08:33, Lars Eighner <usenet@larseighner.com> wrote:
>> In our last episode, <slrng9vrnp.2gj.hjp-usenet2@hrunkner.hjp.at>, the
>> lovely and talented Peter J. Holzer broadcast on comp.lang.perl.misc:
>>
>>> On 2008-08-11 03:55, Lars Eighner <usenet@larseighner.com> wrote:
>>>> Michael Carman:
>>>>> Matt wrote:
>>>>>> I don't know about // being some kind of operator other than a pattern
>>>>>> match operator...but you could accomplish that like this
>>>>
>>>>> It's the defined-or operator that was added in Perl 5.10. It's like ||
>>>>> but tests for definedness instead of truth.
>>>>
>>>> It's in 5.8.8 or my perl is lying.
>>>>
>>> I think your perl is lying. My perl 5.8.8 complains:
>>
>>> Search pattern not terminated at ./foo line 6.
>>
>> Curious. As I said, it works on mine, and perl -V has this
>> to say for itself:
>>
>> Summary of my perl5 (revision 5 version 8 subversion 8) configuration:
>> Platform:
>
> Here's my test program:
>
> #!/usr/bin/perl
> use warnings;
> use strict;
>
> my $lb_lang = $ARGV[0];
> $lb_lang // ($lb_lang = 'en');
> print "$lb_lang\n"
> __END__
Just an observation, I don't know if it makes a difference[1], the OP had
{} and not () after the //
Justin.
1. That's why I'm here, 'cos I don't know!
--
Justin C, by the sea.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 11 Aug 2008 17:13:47 +0100
From: Ben Morrow <ben@morrow.me.uk>
Subject: Re: double slash operator syntax question
Message-Id: <r256n5-ep3.ln1@osiris.mauzo.dyndns.org>
Quoth Lars Eighner <usenet@larseighner.com>:
> In our last episode, <slrng9vrnp.2gj.hjp-usenet2@hrunkner.hjp.at>, the
> lovely and talented Peter J. Holzer broadcast on comp.lang.perl.misc:
>
> > On 2008-08-11 03:55, Lars Eighner <usenet@larseighner.com> wrote:
> >> Michael Carman:
> >>> Matt wrote:
> >>>> I don't know about // being some kind of operator other than a pattern
> >>>> match operator...but you could accomplish that like this
> >>
> >>> It's the defined-or operator that was added in Perl 5.10. It's like ||
> >>> but tests for definedness instead of truth.
> >>
> >> It's in 5.8.8 or my perl is lying.
> >>
> > I think your perl is lying. My perl 5.8.8 complains:
>
> > Search pattern not terminated at ./foo line 6.
>
> Curious. As I said, it works on mine, and perl -V has this
> to say for itself:
>
> Summary of my perl5 (revision 5 version 8 subversion 8) configuration:
> Platform:
> osname=freebsd, osvers=7.0-stable, archname=i386-freebsd-64int
> uname='freebsd debranded.6dollardialup.com 7.0-stable freebsd \
> 7.0-stable #0: mon apr 21 11:15:06 cdt 2008 \
> toor@debranded.6dollardialup.com:usrobjusrsrcsysapr08 i386 '
This is the perl from ports, yes? ports perl applies the dor patch by
default.
Ben
--
For far more marvellous is the truth than any artists of the past imagined!
Why do the poets of the present not speak of it? What men are poets who can
speak of Jupiter if he were like a man, but if he is an immense spinning
sphere of methane and ammonia must be silent? [Feynmann] ben@morrow.me.uk
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 11 Aug 2008 21:57:23 +0000 (UTC)
From: Lars Eighner <usenet@larseighner.com>
Subject: Re: double slash operator syntax question
Message-Id: <slrnga1d24.13b8.usenet@debranded.larseighner.com>
In our last episode, <r256n5-ep3.ln1@osiris.mauzo.dyndns.org>, the lovely
and talented Ben Morrow broadcast on comp.lang.perl.misc:
> Quoth Lars Eighner <usenet@larseighner.com>:
>> In our last episode, <slrng9vrnp.2gj.hjp-usenet2@hrunkner.hjp.at>, the
>> lovely and talented Peter J. Holzer broadcast on comp.lang.perl.misc:
>>
>> > On 2008-08-11 03:55, Lars Eighner <usenet@larseighner.com> wrote:
>> >> Michael Carman:
>> >>> Matt wrote:
>> >>>> I don't know about // being some kind of operator other than a pattern
>> >>>> match operator...but you could accomplish that like this
>> >>
>> >>> It's the defined-or operator that was added in Perl 5.10. It's like ||
>> >>> but tests for definedness instead of truth.
>> >>
>> >> It's in 5.8.8 or my perl is lying.
>> >>
>> > I think your perl is lying. My perl 5.8.8 complains:
>>
>> > Search pattern not terminated at ./foo line 6.
>>
>> Curious. As I said, it works on mine, and perl -V has this
>> to say for itself:
>>
>> Summary of my perl5 (revision 5 version 8 subversion 8) configuration:
>> Platform:
>> osname=freebsd, osvers=7.0-stable, archname=i386-freebsd-64int
>> uname='freebsd debranded.6dollardialup.com 7.0-stable freebsd \
>> 7.0-stable #0: mon apr 21 11:15:06 cdt 2008 \
>> toor@debranded.6dollardialup.com:usrobjusrsrcsysapr08 i386 '
> This is the perl from ports, yes? ports perl applies the dor patch by
> default.
Apparently the perl58 port does. the perl5 port is 5.6
--
Lars Eighner <http://larseighner.com/> usenet@larseighner.com
Good judgment comes from experience. Experience comes from bad judgment.
------------------------------
Date: 6 Apr 2001 21:33:47 GMT (Last modified)
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------------------------------
End of Perl-Users Digest V11 Issue 1786
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