[30499] in Perl-Users-Digest
Perl-Users Digest, Issue: 1742 Volume: 11
daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (Perl-Users Digest)
Wed Jul 23 03:09:40 2008
Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2008 00:09:06 -0700 (PDT)
From: Perl-Users Digest <Perl-Users-Request@ruby.OCE.ORST.EDU>
To: Perl-Users@ruby.OCE.ORST.EDU (Perl-Users Digest)
Perl-Users Digest Wed, 23 Jul 2008 Volume: 11 Number: 1742
Today's topics:
Re: comma puzzle <tadmc@seesig.invalid>
Re: comma puzzle <tadmc@seesig.invalid>
Re: comma puzzle xhoster@gmail.com
Re: FAQ 4.2 Why is int() broken? <tadmc@seesig.invalid>
new CPAN modules on Wed Jul 23 2008 (Randal Schwartz)
Re: number of maximum decimal places supported with Per <someone@example.com>
OT: OT posts [was Re: proliferation of computer languag <Pidgeot18@verizon.invalid>
Perl for calculating an expression. <syang8@gmail.com>
Re: Perl for calculating an expression. <jurgenex@hotmail.com>
Re: proliferation of computer languages <xahlee@gmail.com>
Digest Administrivia (Last modified: 6 Apr 01) (Perl-Users-Digest Admin)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2008 20:09:08 -0500
From: Tad J McClellan <tadmc@seesig.invalid>
Subject: Re: comma puzzle
Message-Id: <slrng8d15k.3j3.tadmc@tadmc30.sbcglobal.net>
szr <szrRE@szromanMO.comVE> wrote:
> Yes, exactly. I could of been
s/could of/could've/
or
s/could of/could have/
> Ok, though C<for ( my $i=0 , $i<10 , $i++ ) { print $i; }> would of
> been caught is use strict were used:
s/would of/would've/
or
s/would of/would have/
--
Tad McClellan
email: perl -le "print scalar reverse qq/moc.noitatibaher\100cmdat/"
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2008 19:46:15 -0500
From: Tad J McClellan <tadmc@seesig.invalid>
Subject: Re: comma puzzle
Message-Id: <slrng8cvqn.3j3.tadmc@tadmc30.sbcglobal.net>
szr <szrRE@szromanMO.comVE> wrote:
> Tad J McClellan wrote:
>> Nick Wedd <nick@maproom.co.uk> wrote:
>>> If I do
>>> for ( my $i=0 ; $i<10 ; $i++ ) { print $i; }
>>> it writes "0123456789". Fine.
>>
>>
>> That uses the control structure described in the "For Loops"
>> section of perlsyn.pod.
>>
>>
>>> Now if I accidentally write
>>> for ( my $i=0 , $i<10 , $i++ ) { print $i; }
>>
>>
>> That uses the control structure described in the "Foreach Loops"
>> section of perlsyn.pod.
>>
>> Since you did not provide a loop control variable, the foreach will
>> place each list item into $_.
>>
>> But you never output $_.
>>
>>
>>> it writes "111".
>>
>>
>> it outputs "000" when I run it:
>>
>> perl -e 'for ( my $i=0 , $i<10 , $i++ ) { print $i; }'
>
> It depends if $i is declared ahead of time or not:
I was commenting on the OP's code.
> $ perl -e 'for ( my $i=0 , $i<10 , $i++ ) { print $i; }'
> 000
That was the OP's code.
> $ perl -e 'my $i; for ( $i=0 , $i<10 , $i++ ) { print $i; }'
> 111
That is not the OP's code.
> This is because in the first one, the C<$i> in the 2nd and 3rd elements
> is not the same one in the first element,
That is what I said.
> One question, I would of actually expected
s/would of/would've/
or
s/would of/would have/
I've suspected this for some time.
> the 2nd run (where C<$i> is
> pre-delcared) to output 011. Why does the first element become 1?
Note that my post pointed out a particular Perl variable
that is not being output by the OP's code...
--
Tad McClellan
email: perl -le "print scalar reverse qq/moc.noitatibaher\100cmdat/"
------------------------------
Date: 23 Jul 2008 03:06:10 GMT
From: xhoster@gmail.com
Subject: Re: comma puzzle
Message-Id: <20080722230614.304$QB@newsreader.com>
"szr" <szrRE@szromanMO.comVE> wrote:
> xhoster@gmail.com wrote:
> > "szr" <szrRE@szromanMO.comVE> wrote:
> >>
> >> Shouldn't it end up like:
> >>
> >> $i=0 -> 0,
> >
> > The result of $i=0 is not 0, it is $i. If $i is not changed
> > elsewhere in the same statement, then $i is 0, but here $i is changed
> > elsewhere.
>
> Yes, the result is $i in that case, which is 0.
When $i (the result of $i=0) is stuffed into the list, it is 0. But it is
stuffed into the list by alias, not by value, and by the time it is
retrieved from the list the first time through the loop, it is 1.
>
> >> $i++ -> 0+1 -> 1
> >
> > The value of $i++ is the "prior" value of $i, not the "new" value of
> > $i.
>
> Either way it's going to be 1 right, since $i would start out as 0 (ok,
> undef), and it's being explicitly set to 0, so $i++ would result in the
> third element being 1.
No, $i++ would result in $i being 1, but that is the side-effect, not the
value. The value of $i++, and hence the third element, isn't $i, it is
the thing previously held by $i, in this case zero.
perl -le 'my $i; print \$i; for($i=0,$i<10,$i++){print "$_\t",\$_;}'
SCALAR(0x61c700)
1 SCALAR(0x61c700)
1 SCALAR(0x6018e0)
0 SCALAR(0x6043e0)
Xho
--
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this fact.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2008 20:06:31 -0500
From: Tad J McClellan <tadmc@seesig.invalid>
Subject: Re: FAQ 4.2 Why is int() broken?
Message-Id: <slrng8d10n.3j3.tadmc@tadmc30.sbcglobal.net>
szr <szrRE@szromanMO.comVE> wrote:
> PerlFAQ Server wrote:
>> This is an excerpt from the latest version perlfaq4.pod, which
>> comes with the standard Perl distribution. These postings aim to
>> reduce the number of repeated questions as well as allow the community
>> to review and update the answers. The latest version of the complete
>> perlfaq is at http://faq.perl.org .
>>
>> --------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>> 4.2: Why is int() broken?
>>
>> Your "int()" is most probably working just fine. It's the numbers
>> that aren't quite what you think.
>>
>> First, see the answer to "Why am I getting long decimals (eg,
>> 19.9499999999999) instead of the numbers I should be getting (eg,
>> 19.95)?".
>
> Maybe I'm just tired, but where exactly do you get these particular
> rounding errors, as I cannot reproduce them:
>
> $ perl5.10.0 -e 'print 19.95, qq{\n};'
> 19.95
You are not outputting with enough precision to see the difference.
Try:
perl5.10.0 -e 'printf "%30.20f\n", 19.95'
> $ perl5.6.1 -e 'print int(0.6/0.2-2), qq{\n};'
>> What you think in the above as 'three' is really more like
>> 2.9999999999999995559.
>
> $ perl5.10.0 -e 'print 3.0, qq{\n};'
> 3
perl -e 'printf "%30.20f\n", (0.6/0.2)'
> I would of expected some rounding errors, but this works on all the Perl
s/would of/would've/
or
s/would of/would have/
> Again I am a bit tired from a long trip
That could explain the multiple reveals seen recently.
--
Tad McClellan
email: perl -le "print scalar reverse qq/moc.noitatibaher\100cmdat/"
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2008 04:42:20 GMT
From: merlyn@stonehenge.com (Randal Schwartz)
Subject: new CPAN modules on Wed Jul 23 2008
Message-Id: <K4FzqK.1wpD@zorch.sf-bay.org>
The following modules have recently been added to or updated in the
Comprehensive Perl Archive Network (CPAN). You can install them using the
instructions in the 'perlmodinstall' page included with your Perl
distribution.
Apache2-Controller-0.101.101
http://search.cpan.org/~markle/Apache2-Controller-0.101.101/
framework for Apache2 handler apps
----
Apache2-Controller-0.101.110
http://search.cpan.org/~markle/Apache2-Controller-0.101.110/
framework for Apache2 handler apps
----
Apache2-Controller-0.101.111
http://search.cpan.org/~markle/Apache2-Controller-0.101.111/
framework for Apache2 handler apps
----
Apache2-Controller-0.4.3
http://search.cpan.org/~markle/Apache2-Controller-0.4.3/
framework for Apache2 handler apps
----
Apache2-Controller-0.51.01
http://search.cpan.org/~markle/Apache2-Controller-0.51.01/
framework for Apache2 handler apps
----
Business-OnlinePayment-3.00_09
http://search.cpan.org/~ivan/Business-OnlinePayment-3.00_09/
Perl extension for online payment processing
----
Business-OnlinePayment-IPPay-0.04
http://search.cpan.org/~jef/Business-OnlinePayment-IPPay-0.04/
IPPay backend for Business::OnlinePayment
----
CGI-PathInfo-1.03
http://search.cpan.org/~snowhare/CGI-PathInfo-1.03/
A lightweight CGI processing package for using PATH_INFO like GET method form parameters
----
CPANPLUS-0.85_03
http://search.cpan.org/~kane/CPANPLUS-0.85_03/
API & CLI access to the CPAN mirrors
----
Clutter-0.801
http://search.cpan.org/~ebassi/Clutter-0.801/
Simple GL-based canvas library
----
DBI-1.606
http://search.cpan.org/~timb/DBI-1.606/
Database independent interface for Perl
----
DBI-1.607
http://search.cpan.org/~timb/DBI-1.607/
Database independent interface for Perl
----
Data-AMF-0.01
http://search.cpan.org/~typester/Data-AMF-0.01/
serialize / deserialize AMF data
----
Data-ParseBinary-0.02
http://search.cpan.org/~semuelf/Data-ParseBinary-0.02/
Yet Another parser for binary structures
----
Data-Valve-0.00006
http://search.cpan.org/~dmaki/Data-Valve-0.00006/
Throttle Your Data
----
Data-Valve-0.00007
http://search.cpan.org/~dmaki/Data-Valve-0.00007/
Throttle Your Data
----
Devel-DTrace-0.10
http://search.cpan.org/~andya/Devel-DTrace-0.10/
Enable dtrace probes for subroutine entry, exit
----
Devel-FindBlessedRefs-1.1.1
http://search.cpan.org/~jettero/Devel-FindBlessedRefs-1.1.1/
find all refs blessed under a package
----
Every-0.03
http://search.cpan.org/~teodor/Every-0.03/
return true every N cycles or S seconds
----
Games-Minesweeper-0.5
http://search.cpan.org/~oesi/Games-Minesweeper-0.5/
another Minesweeper clone...
----
Games-Sudoku-General-0.009
http://search.cpan.org/~wyant/Games-Sudoku-General-0.009/
Solve sudoku-like puzzles.
----
Getopt-Modular-0.01
http://search.cpan.org/~dmcbride/Getopt-Modular-0.01/
Modular access to Getopt::Long
----
Graphics-Primitive-0.06
http://search.cpan.org/~gphat/Graphics-Primitive-0.06/
Device and library agnostic graphics objects
----
Gtk2-Ex-WidgetCursor-5
http://search.cpan.org/~kryde/Gtk2-Ex-WidgetCursor-5/
mouse pointer cursor management for widgets
----
HTTP-Server-Singlethreaded-0.11
http://search.cpan.org/~davidnico/HTTP-Server-Singlethreaded-0.11/
a framework for standalone web applications
----
IPC-PerlSSH-Async-0.01
http://search.cpan.org/~pevans/IPC-PerlSSH-Async-0.01/
----
Layout-Manager-0.08
http://search.cpan.org/~gphat/Layout-Manager-0.08/
2D Layout Management
----
Lingua-JA-FindDates-0.007
http://search.cpan.org/~bkb/Lingua-JA-FindDates-0.007/
find Japanese dates & convert them
----
List-Uniq-0.11
http://search.cpan.org/~jfitz/List-Uniq-0.11/
extract the unique elements of a list
----
List-Uniq-0.12
http://search.cpan.org/~jfitz/List-Uniq-0.12/
extract the unique elements of a list
----
Muldis-D-0.42.0
http://search.cpan.org/~duncand/Muldis-D-0.42.0/
Formal spec of Muldis D relational DBMS lang
----
Net-LDAP-Class-0.05
http://search.cpan.org/~karman/Net-LDAP-Class-0.05/
object-relational mapper for Net::LDAP
----
Net-LDAP-Server-Test-0.06
http://search.cpan.org/~karman/Net-LDAP-Server-Test-0.06/
test Net::LDAP code
----
Net-Squid-Auth-Engine-0.01.04
http://search.cpan.org/~lmc/Net-Squid-Auth-Engine-0.01.04/
External Credentials Authentication for Squid HTTP Cache
----
OpenResty-0.3.18
http://search.cpan.org/~agent/OpenResty-0.3.18/
General-purpose web service platform for web applications
----
POE-Component-IRC-5.86
http://search.cpan.org/~bingos/POE-Component-IRC-5.86/
a fully event-driven IRC client module.
----
PPI-PowerToys-0.11
http://search.cpan.org/~adamk/PPI-PowerToys-0.11/
A handy collection of small PPI-based utilities
----
Perl-Critic-1.089
http://search.cpan.org/~elliotjs/Perl-Critic-1.089/
Critique Perl source code for best-practices.
----
Perl-Critic-1.090
http://search.cpan.org/~elliotjs/Perl-Critic-1.090/
Critique Perl source code for best-practices.
----
Perl-Dist-1.03
http://search.cpan.org/~adamk/Perl-Dist-1.03/
Perl Distribution Creation Toolkit
----
RiveScript-1.16
http://search.cpan.org/~kirsle/RiveScript-1.16/
Rendering Intelligence Very Easily
----
Ruby-0.06
http://search.cpan.org/~gfuji/Ruby-0.06/
Perl interface to Ruby interpreter
----
SVN-Class-0.08
http://search.cpan.org/~karman/SVN-Class-0.08/
manipulate Subversion workspaces with Perl objects
----
Set-Array-0.15
http://search.cpan.org/~rsavage/Set-Array-0.15/
Arrays as objects with lots of handy methods (including Set comparisons) and support for method chaining.
----
Set-Object-1.25
http://search.cpan.org/~samv/Set-Object-1.25/
set of objects and strings
----
Sub-Called-0.01
http://search.cpan.org/~ovid/Sub-Called-0.01/
Check if a sub has already been called
----
Sub-Called-0.02
http://search.cpan.org/~reneeb/Sub-Called-0.02/
get information about how the subroutine is called
----
Test-Aggregate-0.31
http://search.cpan.org/~ovid/Test-Aggregate-0.31/
Aggregate *.t tests to make them run faster.
----
Test-Most-0.10
http://search.cpan.org/~ovid/Test-Most-0.10/
Most commonly needed test functions and features.
----
ZConf-0.3.2
http://search.cpan.org/~vvelox/ZConf-0.3.2/
A configuration system allowing for either file or LDAP backed storage.
----
re-engine-Lua-0.03
http://search.cpan.org/~perrad/re-engine-Lua-0.03/
Lua regular expression engine
If you're an author of one of these modules, please submit a detailed
announcement to comp.lang.perl.announce, and we'll pass it along.
This message was generated by a Perl program described in my Linux
Magazine column, which can be found on-line (along with more than
200 other freely available past column articles) at
http://www.stonehenge.com/merlyn/LinuxMag/col82.html
print "Just another Perl hacker," # the original
--
Randal L. Schwartz - Stonehenge Consulting Services, Inc. - +1 503 777 0095
<merlyn@stonehenge.com> <URL:http://www.stonehenge.com/merlyn/>
Smalltalk/Perl/Unix consulting, Technical writing, Comedy, etc. etc.
See http://methodsandmessages.vox.com/ for Smalltalk and Seaside discussion
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2008 06:25:56 GMT
From: "John W. Krahn" <someone@example.com>
Subject: Re: number of maximum decimal places supported with Perl
Message-Id: <U9Ahk.24044$nD.15227@pd7urf1no>
Ben Morrow wrote:
> Quoth Jack <jack_posemsky@yahoo.com>:
>> Hi there, does anyone know what data type has the most digits of
>> precision perl, and what the upper bound (maximum) number of decimal
>> places is for that data type ?
>
> You can finfd out which C type your perl uses for floating-point numbers
> with
>
> perl -V:nvtype
>
> You will need to consult the documentation for the C compiler used to
> build that perl to find out what precision that implies; in the common
> case that your perl is using a 53-bit IEEE 'double' type, you have
> approximately 15 digits or precision.
Or let POSIX help:
$ perl -V:nvtype
nvtype='double';
$ perl -MPOSIX -le'print for DBL_DIG, DBL_EPSILON, DBL_MANT_DIG,
DBL_MAX, DBL_MAX_10_EXP, DBL_MAX_EXP, DBL_MIN, DBL_MIN_10_EXP, DBL_MIN_EXP'
15
2.22044604925031e-16
53
1.79769313486232e+308
308
1024
2.2250738585072e-308
-307
-1021
John
--
Perl isn't a toolbox, but a small machine shop where you
can special-order certain sorts of tools at low cost and
in short order. -- Larry Wall
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2008 02:29:16 GMT
From: Joshua Cranmer <Pidgeot18@verizon.invalid>
Subject: OT: OT posts [was Re: proliferation of computer languages]
Message-Id: <0Iwhk.355$oU.209@trnddc07>
xahlee@gmail.com wrote:
> • many says i'm posting off topic posts. In recent years they start to
> say i'm posting tangentially relevant posts. That's not correct. In
> fact, there are huge number of blatantly off-topics posts by regulars
> that spawn off from threads, happens regularly. The topics vary
> anywhere from discussing politics, law, licenses, free speech, math
> education, yapping on happenings of celebrity programers, and
> including rampant flamewars and accusations among themselves.
There is a difference. Many of your claimant off-topic posts are buried
in the end of threads, not at the explicit start of a thread. In those
cases, I personally feel that not moving to another forum is trumped by
the sake of continuity. Even then, it should be indicated as such by OT:
in the subject, but it gets easy to forget it. Starting a thread that is
OT does not have such continuity considerations, though.
And realize that something is not on-topic merely because it's relevant
to Java programmers. You can see people's responses to one of Roedy's
threads as an example.
> • Most newsgroup tech geekers consider cross-posting wrong. I consider
> the taboo of this convention being a major contribution to the
> redundant creation of new languages, and foster the hostile faction
> nature of programing language communities we see.
X-Posting to groups as diverse as c.l.perl.misc, c.l.python, c.l.lisp,
c.l.functional, and c.l.java.programmer (the last one especially, as it
is not a functional language nor will it ever be) is generally a sign
that you are not X-Posting in a germane fashion. Your original topic
belongs in comp.programming or maybe (I can see a case for it) in
c.l.functional, but not the other four groups.
> I wrote detailed argument about my edit in
> my Wikipedia's personal talk page. The Wikipedia fuckheads not only
> ban'd me,
"When in Rome, do as the Romans do." Fragrantly violating the
established rules of an organization, especially after being reminded of
these rules, is sufficient cause for disciplinary action.
And you're entire post gets more and more OT every paragraph. I can in
no good faith allow this to continue. Setting F-U header to take
appropriate actions.
--
Beware of bugs in the above code; I have only proved it correct, not
tried it. -- Donald E. Knuth
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2008 21:36:26 -0700 (PDT)
From: syang8 <syang8@gmail.com>
Subject: Perl for calculating an expression.
Message-Id: <ae88350c-2a8a-4a11-8fdb-0570e0bab4a4@a70g2000hsh.googlegroups.com>
Is there any peal script available that I can quickly calculate a
string " (3+5)*5/40 " or " 4*7-7*(4+5) " ? There are only the digits
and +,-,*,/ and () available in the string. Thank you!
-Steve
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2008 04:40:09 GMT
From: Jürgen Exner <jurgenex@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Perl for calculating an expression.
Message-Id: <ocdd84h71q15kckvgue9pk7sk4u579vd1e@4ax.com>
syang8 <syang8@gmail.com> wrote:
>Is there any peal script available that I can quickly calculate a
>string " (3+5)*5/40 " or " 4*7-7*(4+5) " ? There are only the digits
>and +,-,*,/ and () available in the string. Thank you!
Is quick and dirty good enough? Then just use eval().
Otherwise writing a simple parser and interpreter for such a tiny
language is a favourite second semester excercise.
jue
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2008 18:44:02 -0700 (PDT)
From: "xahlee@gmail.com" <xahlee@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: proliferation of computer languages
Message-Id: <637ca9de-75d6-48e4-b6fd-0bd36020c209@c65g2000hsa.googlegroups.com>
over the past 5 years there are some negative remarks on me or my
posts. I have almost never responded to any of them. Here i want to
clarify a few things.
=E2=80=A2 I seldomly write off-topic posts. For example, any argument about
netiquette, i consider off-topic, including defense such as what i'm
doing now. But in recent years i gradually relaxed my stringent self-
imposed rules in my posting habit.
(See =E2=80=9CAloofness vs Approable=E2=80=9D
http://xahlee.org/UnixResource_dir/writ/aloof_vs_approachable.html )
=E2=80=A2 many says i'm posting off topic posts. In recent years they start=
to
say i'm posting tangentially relevant posts. That's not correct. In
fact, there are huge number of blatantly off-topics posts by regulars
that spawn off from threads, happens regularly. The topics vary
anywhere from discussing politics, law, licenses, free speech, math
education, yapping on happenings of celebrity programers, and
including rampant flamewars and accusations among themselves.
(see =E2=98=85 =E2=80=9COld School Netiquette=E2=80=9D
http://xahlee.org/UnixResource_dir/writ/os_netiquette.html
)
=E2=80=A2 Some people says that i don't participate in discussion, and this=
is
part of the reason they think i'm a so-called =E2=80=9Ctroll=E2=80=9D. Actu=
ally i do,
and read every reply to my post, as well have replied to technical
questions other posted. Most reply to my posts are attacks or trivial
(of few sentences) i don't consider worthy to reply.
A few, maybe 10% replies to my controvial posts, i consider having
some value. But if i don't have opinion on what they remarked, i don't
reply. Also, if all i wanted to say is =E2=80=9Cthanks=E2=80=9D, i tend to =
avoid
posting such trivial posts too. (i used to reply by personal email in
such cases, I still do sometimes now, but today that can be considered
intrusive.)
(see =E2=98=85 =E2=80=9CPhilosophies of Netiquette=E2=80=9D
http://xahlee.org/UnixResource_dir/writ/phil_netiquette.html ,
)
In newsgroups which i feel i'm more part of the community, i do reply
more often. (e.g. in the dot com years (~1999) i'm much more active in
comp.lang.perl.misc including asking technical questions; during
2005-2006 while i was learning python, did somewhat frequent posts to
comp.lang.python; in this year in comp.lang.lisp, i frequently replied
and argued more freely. But in this year, also very active in
gnu.emacs.help, most of my posts there just answered tech questions)
=E2=80=A2 Most newsgroup tech geekers consider cross-posting wrong. I consi=
der
the taboo of this convention being a major contribution to the
redundant creation of new languages, and foster the hostile faction
nature of programing language communities we see.
(see =E2=98=85 =E2=80=9CCross-posting & Language Factions=E2=80=9D
http://xahlee.org/Netiquette_dir/cross-post.html
)
=E2=80=A2 There's a lot rumors that says i post prodigiously. Actually, whe=
n
i'm active, i post only about 1 or 2 posts per week, in the past 10
years. (See the =E2=80=9CAloofness vs Approachble=E2=80=9D article cited ab=
ove. Note
that, last time i checked, the stat given by poster's profile at
groups.google.com is actually erroneous. I think it counts all replies
or multiply cross posts)
=E2=80=A2 Many say i repeatedly post old essays i wrote that are published =
on
my website. The total number of times i've done that is perhaps 4 or
absoletly less than than 10, since the 12 years of using newsgroup
started in 1996. The first of such =E2=80=9Crepeat=E2=80=9D must be sometim=
es after
2004. The interval of a =E2=80=9Crepeat=E2=80=9D happens is at least half a=
year, more
likely 1 or 2 years. Also, the repeat does not happen more than once.
(to be absolutely correct, possibly there is 1 essay that are posted
at a max of 3 times) I =E2=80=9Crepeat=E2=80=9D a essay i've written becaus=
e i think
the issue is important, the situation has not changed, and i consider
it worth to be said again. When appropriate, i incorporate information
from the discussion into by my essay, with proper credits. (this esp
has happened in my Python tutorial, emacs lisp tutorial, java
tutorial, various classical literature on my site)
Actually, most accusations about me falls apart if one just take 10
min to check the facts.
=E2=80=A2 When i used my google email account to post, as opposed to my old=
er
google account xah@xahlee.org, often people accuse me of =E2=80=9Cchanging
identity to avoid killfile=E2=80=9D. This is just one of their ways these
people drivel. I don't really give a fuck i'm kill filed or not kill
filed. People change emails all the time. In the past 10 years of
using newsgroups, i've only used xah@xahlee.org and xahlee@gmail.com .
And before 2000, i had few other emails before i registered the domain
xahlee.org. I rather stick with xah@xahlee.org, but the re-login to
different google accounts with several of their services is becoming a
pain. See, for example, this post this month:
http://groups.google.com/group/Google-Accounts-API/browse_thread/thread/a17=
9b4fd348900aa?tvc=3D2
Also, whenever i had a new webhosting provider, people dig it up and
accuse me of changing IP to troll. (this happens more frequently in
the past, say before 2003, i think that the knowledge of digging up IP
is now considered lame even amoneg these stupid tech geekers)
My site xahlee.org has changed web hosting about every 2 years for
variety of reasons. For a few years it was hosted free on the math
educational site that used to be mathforum.org of Swathmore edu.
(For some detail of my website hosting and history, see:
=E2=98=85 =E2=80=9CWeb Hosting Compared: 2006-01=E2=80=9D
http://xahlee.org/Periodic_dosage_dir/t1/webhosting.html
A little trivia: before i had xahlee.org in 2000, my site was hosted
at
best.com/~xah starting in 1996.
Some very very old sites still link to that.
)
The only time that my change of web hoster has anything to do with my
posting, is in 2006 someone harrassed me to have my web hosting kick
me off due to my controversial postings in comp.lang.* groups. I have
written a detailed account about it on my website. you can easily find
the url by web search =E2=80=9Cxah, dreamhost, harrassment=E2=80=9D.
(for the record, any ban, or harrasment on me, i keep a record as
truthful as possile. Most of these bans, kicks, or fights happens in
just aboun every online forum, inworld game groups, irc chat
groups, ...etc where the participants are almost all males. Typically,
they are not unlike highschool boys brawling things out. If the issue
effected me or pissed me in some serious way, i publish it on my
website. The keeping record is very tedious. For example, in
newsgroups you might want to save all the messages in a thread this
happened. In online forums, blogs, social networking sites, where
posts can be deleted or modified easily, it's more tedious to keep a
history of the site (e.g. screenshots), and to keep a manual written
log of what happened when. Similarly, in irc, you have to save the
chat, manage the chat logs, adding comment on what happened where with
what chat log, finding out people's real identities if proper, etc.
(as a example, i've been ban'd in freenode.com's #emacs irc chat since
2006. See =E2=98=85 =E2=80=9CEmacs Irc Channel Ban on Xah Lee=E2=80=9D http=
://xahlee.org/emacs/xah_ban_emacs_irc.html
=2E I have a bunch of irc chat logs when i'm banned. I always save the
chat log when someone ban me unjustly. But it's quite time consuming
to organize them and write about them.))
(as another example of ban, in about 2 months ago i was ban'd in
Wikipedia. I was editing 3 article related to Tibet, of which i
consider my edit very proper. But, in my opinion, it's too much againt
Western's popular beliefs. I wrote detailed argument about my edit in
my Wikipedia's personal talk page. The Wikipedia fuckheads not only
ban'd me, but subsequently ban'd me in editing my pesonal Wikipedia
page too, and blatantly deleted the detailed reason that i defended my
edit. The incident is here, bottom:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:P0lyglut
the writing where i defended my edit, is here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=3DUser_talk:P0lyglut&diff=3Dprev&=
oldid=3D215672906
Wikipedia these days is a huge organization (ranked top 10 of all
sites), and part of the good thing is that they have some rules and
regulations that prevents the fuckheads powers struggle too much, in
that they have 1-month ban, with record of history, and in general has
ways to further one's case to judgement. However, it's still subject
to a lot tech geekers or other cartel of vested interest in keeping
some article to the way they liked. I do consider Wikipedia one of the
most important site and in fact part of my life, but these days i
avoid =E2=80=9Ccontributing=E2=80=9D. (e.g. i have now over 4000 links to W=
ikipedia
articles from my site. I estimate, that for each link i've made, there
are maybe 10 more article i've read. See for example:
=E2=98=85 =E2=80=9CLinks To Wikipedia from XahLee.org=E2=80=9D
http://xahlee.org/wikipedia_links.html ,
=E2=98=85 =E2=80=9CGenerate a Web Links Report with Emacs Lisp=E2=80=9D
http://xahlee.org/emacs/elisp_link_report.html ,
=E2=98=85 =E2=80=9CEncyclopedia, My Experiences=E2=80=9D
http://xahlee.org/Periodic_dosage_dir/encyclopedia.html
=E2=98=85 =E2=80=9CLispers and Wikipedia=E2=80=9D
http://xahlee.org/emacs/lispers_n_wikipedia.html
)
)
-----------------
I've been actively using online forums since 1991 in CompuServe and
AppleLink days. I've seen my share of flames, netiquette arguments,
etc. (the medium include: newsgroup, mailing list, web forum, irc,
communities inside massive multi-player online games) I've been banned
now and then in places. (in one case, legally definable harrassment,
which happened and perhapss well-known at the time in comp.lang.*
groups few years ago) From what i see, the banning, heated accusations
and quarrels, are mostly exhibition of male nature and political
struggle, not unlike political struggles that happens in society at
large, such as in academia, corporations, goverment orgs, between
corporations, between nations.
Some say =E2=80=9Cwhy can't you be normal=E2=80=9D?
It is true i tend to discuss controversial topics and with non-
conformal attitude. I have my reasons and you could say it's just a
personality. However, =E2=80=9Cbeing not normal=E2=80=9D is not a reason to=
accuse.
There are philosophers, unorthodox, dissenters, free thinkers, flag
bunners, protesters, traitor/founder, homosexuals ... many are
persecuted, considered a crime, in the past, and some are now
considered national or international heros.
Btw, this post is not some kinda formal defense to some formal
accusations. Newsgroups has always been a very contentious and
argumentive medium, and perhaps far more wortheless with relatively
little readership and impact on society than tech geeking regulars
like to think. People in fact like newsgroups that way. I don't feel
necessary to respond to morons. This post is just one of my post i
feels like writing. You guys to whatever it is that you do.
PS as i have detailed, i have my own moral ethics in posting. Most
posts and opinions are just too stupid, igonrant, for me to consider
replying. If you really belived that some of my opinion or posts are
wrong, contain bad advice, or wrong fact, then do post, as i do read
every reply it shows up in groups.google.com. And, whatever is your
opinion, i would recommend you spend 30 minutes to write your reply.
(as i do spend 1 to even 6 hours in most of my newsgroup posts as
explained in detail in one of the above cited article) Also, if the
subject is unconventional and you see i put forth my opinion
forcefully, i suggest you take 30 minutes, to think, do research,
about it before you reply. Also, if prefer to reply to those who post
with real names.
Again, i don't consider this is some serious issue, or that my
opinions and beliefs and behaviors are always correct. It's just
another newsgroup day. Do whatever it is that you do.
Xah
=E2=88=91 http://xahlee.org/
=E2=98=84
------------------------------
Date: 6 Apr 2001 21:33:47 GMT (Last modified)
From: Perl-Users-Request@ruby.oce.orst.edu (Perl-Users-Digest Admin)
Subject: Digest Administrivia (Last modified: 6 Apr 01)
Message-Id: <null>
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------------------------------
End of Perl-Users Digest V11 Issue 1742
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