[30463] in Perl-Users-Digest
Perl-Users Digest, Issue: 1706 Volume: 11
daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (Perl-Users Digest)
Wed Jul 9 18:09:53 2008
Date: Wed, 9 Jul 2008 15:09:09 -0700 (PDT)
From: Perl-Users Digest <Perl-Users-Request@ruby.OCE.ORST.EDU>
To: Perl-Users@ruby.OCE.ORST.EDU (Perl-Users Digest)
Perl-Users Digest Wed, 9 Jul 2008 Volume: 11 Number: 1706
Today's topics:
Re: FAQ 1.12 What's the difference between "perl" and " <gseesig@gmail.com>
Re: FAQ 1.12 What's the difference between "perl" and " <tzz@lifelogs.com>
Non-printable char in regex <soup_or_power@yahoo.com>
Re: Non-printable char in regex <noreply@gunnar.cc>
Re: Non-printable char in regex <m@rtij.nl.invlalid>
Re: Non-printable char in regex <fawaka@gmail.com>
Re: Non-printable char in regex <fawaka@gmail.com>
Re: Non-printable char in regex <spamtrap@dot-app.org>
Re: Non-printable char in regex <szrRE@szromanMO.comVE>
Re: Non-printable char in regex <spamtrap@dot-app.org>
Re: Non-printable char in regex <uri@stemsystems.com>
Re: Value of "Programming perl" 1st Ed.? <dragnet\_@_/internalysis.com>
Re: Value of "Programming perl" 1st Ed.? pilcrow@pp.info
Re: Value of "Programming perl" 1st Ed.? <skyler@shaw.ca>
Re: Value of "Programming perl" 1st Ed.? <uri@stemsystems.com>
Re: Value of "Programming perl" 1st Ed.? <uri@stemsystems.com>
Digest Administrivia (Last modified: 6 Apr 01) (Perl-Users-Digest Admin)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Wed, 9 Jul 2008 13:30:49 -0700
From: "Gordon Corbin Etly" <gseesig@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: FAQ 1.12 What's the difference between "perl" and "Perl"?
Message-Id: <6dklfrF34kitU1@mid.individual.net>
Ted Zlatanov wrote:
> On Wed, 9 Jul 2008 09:44:14 -0700 "Gordon Corbin Etly"
> <gseesig@gmail.com> wrote:
> > Ted Zlatanov wrote:
> > > On Tue, 8 Jul 2008 14:45:33 -0700 "Gordon Corbin Etly"
> > > <gvinalcde@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > Charlton Wilbur wrote:
> > > > > If you write PERL, you are marking yourself as an outsider in
> > > > > the eyes of people who are at the core of the Perl community.
> > > > I strongly disagree. It shows you are a free thinking individual
> > > > who doesn't just conform because they are told to.
> > > That would apply to most criminals, most spammers, and the
> > > Godzilla
> > > troll too.
> > That is true, but it's not the case here.
> My point is that your statement applies equally, which means that
> either the statement doesn't carry a positive meaning and thus doesn't
> defend your position, or that you are not saying what you meant to
> say.
But if you take the context into account, does it not become more clear?
Meaning, how it's happening in this news group; a view about a certain
spelling being forced upon people.
> > To me it's wrong to force your beliefs on other people.
> Well, you should not live in a society then, or you should modify your
> statement, for it surely doesn't say what you meant to say.
Ok, if you believe in Judaism, and 20 people who you work with believe
in Buddhism, and if those 20 people start imposing certain beliefs on
you, and the other hundreds of people in your place, would you not
consider this wrong? Should you not be able to walk through that
particular cubicle cluster without having to conform to their view that
they are pressuring you to do, despite what you anyone else may believe
in?
How is this any different than a particular group of people telling
others that they should not wrote "PERL" when there is no real reason of
any substance that makes it wrong. Sure they use it as a litmus test to
see if one follows their "religion", but it's asking someone to write
"God" by the name you religion calls it, instead of respecting that they
may want to write it their own way.
> > > IMHO, putting "PERL" on your resume is a sure way to disqualify
> > > yourself from decent Perl jobs.
> > This is just not true. I have been through many kinds of interviews
> > over the years, and I have never been disqualified for miss-casing
> > the name of a programming language. The end result: it's just not
> > that important.
> I did say "IMHO" so this is obviously IYHO. Do you have any Perl
> recruiters that will say they won't ding candidates with "PERL"
> experience? I can point to a few, including myself when I've hired
> people, that will. Maybe it does not disqualify altogether, but it's
> definitely a big minus and you don't want those on your resume.
Why would you ding someone for writing in short hand what Larry Wall
himself says Perl stands for? This comes down personal preference,
rather than the competence or how well acquainted someone is with a
particular community.
Frankly, I find "dinging" someone for what you may consider to be a
textual error is absurd; what the candidate has to offer, what skills
they can provide, should be much more important than if they wrote
"Perl" or "PERL."
Would you also ding someone saying they believe in "Allah", "Jehovah",
"Ra", "Buddha", etc, when you only believe in "God"?
> > > Similarly, using it in a post is a sure way to annoy people. You
> > > can explain in a footnote that Larry Wall told you it was OK, it
> > > won't matter. It's a social problem, not a technical one.
> > But that is not a reason to force a particular view on everyone. Not
> > everyone who is a decent programmer (or "perl hacker") wants to be
> > forced to conform to a particular view. You have to realize this or
> > you're living in a bubble.
> Again, it's a social problem and you are twisting it into a individual
> vs. society problem. You can't solve it, and it's not a "view" forced
> on anyone.
I really have to disagree. It's been proven that Larry Wall himself gave
expansions of what Perl stands for, and another way to write that is
"PERL", yet they refuse to amend the FAQ, and they continue to push
*their* *view*, that it is wrong, when the facts point the other way.
Whether it's one person's view, or that of a group of people, it doesn't
make it right.
--
Gordon C. Etly
Email: perl -e "print q{}.reverse(q{moc.liamg@ylte.nodrog})"
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 09 Jul 2008 16:15:20 -0500
From: Ted Zlatanov <tzz@lifelogs.com>
Subject: Re: FAQ 1.12 What's the difference between "perl" and "Perl"?
Message-Id: <86hcay4v4n.fsf@lifelogs.com>
On Wed, 9 Jul 2008 13:30:49 -0700 "Gordon Corbin Etly" <gseesig@gmail.com> wrote:
GCE> How is this any different than a particular group of people telling
GCE> others that they should not wrote "PERL" when there is no real
GCE> reason of any substance that makes it wrong. Sure they use it as a
GCE> litmus test to see if one follows their "religion", but it's asking
GCE> someone to write "God" by the name you religion calls it, instead
GCE> of respecting that they may want to write it their own way.
Regardless of your opinion, *the community* writes it "Perl"
consistently, and the 3-4 exceptions you've found are irrelevant
compared to the vast number of times it's been written correctly. I
explained that this is a social problem you will not solve by arguing
and advised you how to deal with it (become respected in the Perl
community, then write it any way you like and maybe you'll change what's
accepted). No examples will change that fact, and no arguing will help
you. How can I make it clearer than the equations I spelled out?
Ted
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 9 Jul 2008 11:29:25 -0700 (PDT)
From: "souporpower@gmail.com" <soup_or_power@yahoo.com>
Subject: Non-printable char in regex
Message-Id: <f81e06b1-3b38-4bc3-b066-a97e3ead8d42@y38g2000hsy.googlegroups.com>
Hi
I have a regex problem on Windows XP Active Perl V5.8.8. The string to
match starts with a 2 chars that are non-printable. I tried using Hex,
Octal and Control patterns without success. If I remove the first 2
chars in the string the subsequent pattern matching works fine. Has
anyone encountered this before? Does perl have a pattern matcher for
non-printable chars?
Thanks for your help
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 09 Jul 2008 21:30:58 +0200
From: Gunnar Hjalmarsson <noreply@gunnar.cc>
Subject: Re: Non-printable char in regex
Message-Id: <6dki3rF2vq9fU1@mid.individual.net>
souporpower@gmail.com wrote:
> I have a regex problem on Windows XP Active Perl V5.8.8. The string to
> match starts with a 2 chars that are non-printable. I tried using Hex,
> Octal and Control patterns without success. If I remove the first 2
> chars in the string the subsequent pattern matching works fine. Has
> anyone encountered this before? Does perl have a pattern matcher for
> non-printable chars?
This gives you the string's characters as octal strings that can be used
in a Perl regex:
my @octchars = map sprintf('\\%03o', ord), split //, $string;
--
Gunnar Hjalmarsson
Email: http://www.gunnar.cc/cgi-bin/contact.pl
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 9 Jul 2008 21:37:06 +0200
From: Martijn Lievaart <m@rtij.nl.invlalid>
Subject: Re: Non-printable char in regex
Message-Id: <pan.2008.07.09.19.37.06@rtij.nl.invlalid>
On Wed, 09 Jul 2008 11:29:25 -0700, souporpower@gmail.com wrote:
> Hi
>
> I have a regex problem on Windows XP Active Perl V5.8.8. The string to
> match starts with a 2 chars that are non-printable. I tried using Hex,
> Octal and Control patterns without success. If I remove the first 2
> chars in the string the subsequent pattern matching works fine. Has
> anyone encountered this before? Does perl have a pattern matcher for
> non-printable chars?
Use a dot if you don't care for the value. But be aware that those two
_bytes_ may form one unicode _character_.
If you do care about matching the exact value, look at perldoc perlre,
especially \x and \x{}
HTH,
M4
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 09 Jul 2008 21:46:41 +0200
From: Leon Timmermans <fawaka@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Non-printable char in regex
Message-Id: <7c4aa$487515a1$89e0e08f$25540@news1.tudelft.nl>
On Wed, 09 Jul 2008 11:29:25 -0700, souporpower@gmail.com wrote:
> Hi
>
> I have a regex problem on Windows XP Active Perl V5.8.8. The string to
> match starts with a 2 chars that are non-printable. I tried using Hex,
> Octal and Control patterns without success. If I remove the first 2
> chars in the string the subsequent pattern matching works fine. Has
> anyone encountered this before? Does perl have a pattern matcher for
> non-printable chars?
>
> Thanks for your help
Hi,
Could you post you code. I doubt we can really help you with it. Have you
tried it like \x00 (numbers should be the hex value of your characters)?
That should do the trick.
Leon Timmermans
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 09 Jul 2008 21:52:22 +0200
From: Leon Timmermans <fawaka@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Non-printable char in regex
Message-Id: <3928f$487516f6$89e0e08f$25540@news1.tudelft.nl>
On Wed, 09 Jul 2008 21:46:41 +0200, Leon Timmermans wrote:
> Could you post you code. I doubt we can really help you with it.
Typo. I meant to say: I doubt we can really help you without it.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 09 Jul 2008 15:52:51 -0400
From: Sherman Pendley <spamtrap@dot-app.org>
Subject: Re: Non-printable char in regex
Message-Id: <m13amiq1gs.fsf@dot-app.org>
"souporpower@gmail.com" <soup_or_power@yahoo.com> writes:
> I have a regex problem on Windows XP Active Perl V5.8.8. The string to
> match starts with a 2 chars that are non-printable. I tried using Hex,
> Octal and Control patterns without success. If I remove the first 2
> chars in the string the subsequent pattern matching works fine. Has
> anyone encountered this before? Does perl have a pattern matcher for
> non-printable chars?
Octal patterns work as expected for me:
#!/usr/bin/perl
use strict;
use warnings;
my $bell = "\aDing!";
if ($bell =~ /^\07/) {
print "$bell matches\n";
} else {
print "$bell does not match\n";
}
sherm-pendleys-computer:~ sherm$ perl testmatch.pl
Ding! matches
Can you write a small test script like the one above, that shows the
pattern(s) you've tried and the input you've given them?
sherm--
--
My blog: http://shermspace.blogspot.com
Cocoa programming in Perl: http://camelbones.sourceforge.net
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 9 Jul 2008 13:34:17 -0700
From: "szr" <szrRE@szromanMO.comVE>
Subject: Re: Non-printable char in regex
Message-Id: <g537ca02ms1@news4.newsguy.com>
Sherman Pendley wrote:
> "souporpower@gmail.com" <soup_or_power@yahoo.com> writes:
>
>> I have a regex problem on Windows XP Active Perl V5.8.8. The string
>> to match starts with a 2 chars that are non-printable. I tried using
>> Hex, Octal and Control patterns without success. If I remove the
>> first 2 chars in the string the subsequent pattern matching works
>> fine. Has anyone encountered this before? Does perl have a pattern
>> matcher for non-printable chars?
>
> Octal patterns work as expected for me:
Is there any technical or beneficial reason to use octal patterns over
hexadecimal (or vice-versa), or is that just your preference?
--
szr
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 09 Jul 2008 17:08:05 -0400
From: Sherman Pendley <spamtrap@dot-app.org>
Subject: Re: Non-printable char in regex
Message-Id: <m1k5fuhikq.fsf@dot-app.org>
"szr" <szrRE@szromanMO.comVE> writes:
> Sherman Pendley wrote:
>> "souporpower@gmail.com" <soup_or_power@yahoo.com> writes:
>>
>>> I have a regex problem on Windows XP Active Perl V5.8.8. The string
>>> to match starts with a 2 chars that are non-printable. I tried using
>>> Hex, Octal and Control patterns without success. If I remove the
>>> first 2 chars in the string the subsequent pattern matching works
>>> fine. Has anyone encountered this before? Does perl have a pattern
>>> matcher for non-printable chars?
>>
>> Octal patterns work as expected for me:
>
> Is there any technical or beneficial reason to use octal patterns over
> hexadecimal (or vice-versa), or is that just your preference?
None that I'm aware of. I'd fail the Damian test, I'm afraid... it's a
habit, not a conscious decision to write it one way or another.
sherm--
--
My blog: http://shermspace.blogspot.com
Cocoa programming in Perl: http://camelbones.sourceforge.net
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 09 Jul 2008 22:06:46 GMT
From: Uri Guttman <uri@stemsystems.com>
Subject: Re: Non-printable char in regex
Message-Id: <x7lk0ahfux.fsf@mail.sysarch.com>
>>>>> "SP" == Sherman Pendley <spamtrap@dot-app.org> writes:
SP> "szr" <szrRE@szromanMO.comVE> writes:
>> Sherman Pendley wrote:
>>> "souporpower@gmail.com" <soup_or_power@yahoo.com> writes:
>>>
>>>> I have a regex problem on Windows XP Active Perl V5.8.8. The string
>>>> to match starts with a 2 chars that are non-printable. I tried using
>>>> Hex, Octal and Control patterns without success. If I remove the
>>>> first 2 chars in the string the subsequent pattern matching works
>>>> fine. Has anyone encountered this before? Does perl have a pattern
>>>> matcher for non-printable chars?
>>>
>>> Octal patterns work as expected for me:
>>
>> Is there any technical or beneficial reason to use octal patterns over
>> hexadecimal (or vice-versa), or is that just your preference?
SP> None that I'm aware of. I'd fail the Damian test, I'm afraid... it's a
SP> habit, not a conscious decision to write it one way or another.
perl being timtowtdi supports several ways to get binary literals into
strings. hex, octal, control codes, special escapes (\n, etc) and even
binary. this is because the data may be related to other data that is
usually encoded or printed in that format. the binary data can be the
same but the literals used can be any supported syntax.
uri
--
Uri Guttman ------ uri@stemsystems.com -------- http://www.sysarch.com --
----- Perl Code Review , Architecture, Development, Training, Support ------
--------- Free Perl Training --- http://perlhunter.com/college.html ---------
--------- Gourmet Hot Cocoa Mix ---- http://bestfriendscocoa.com ---------
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 09 Jul 2008 13:16:12 -0500
From: Marc Bissonnette <dragnet\_@_/internalysis.com>
Subject: Re: Value of "Programming perl" 1st Ed.?
Message-Id: <Xns9AD6912046526dragnetinternalysisc@216.196.97.131>
Skyler <skyler@shaw.ca> fell face-first on the keyboard. This was the
result: news:%N6dk.13229$uE5.8170@flpi144.ffdc.sbc.com:
> Uri Guttman wrote:
>>>>>>> "S" == Skyler <skyler@shaw.ca> writes:
>>
>> S> Thanks. With you to fûck with, it couldn't get anymore fun. Sorta
>> S> reminds me of cow tipping.
>>
>> nah, you still don't get it. i am the regular here with respect.
>
> Respect? Why would anyone respect someone who gives them none.
>
>> you are the mouse if you haven't figured that out.
>
> Perhaps only in the Tom & Jerry sense. It seems every time you swipe at
> me, you can't quite hit the target, and before you realize it, I've run
> under you and crammed your tail into a power socket.
>
>> flaming others for foolish reasons
>
> Yet it's perfectly ok for you and your kind to do so to others.
>
> -sky
How about Uri gives respect by commenting on actual perl and processes ?
You may not like all his responses, they may not always agree with your
ideals, but his perl responses have always been helpful and have always
indicated a newer direction of thought for those of us who aren't as
accomplished as he is in the language (And that is no rear-kissing, as it
is simple fact).
You jumped into an innocuous thread by asking a regular to 'get a room' -
What was your point or purpose in doing so ? I certainly don't remember you
posting any commentary on code, procedures or solutions, so what's with the
big, pokey stick up your nether regions ?
--
Marc Bissonnette
Looking for a new ISP? http://www.canadianisp.com
Largest ISP comparison site across Canada.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 09 Jul 2008 12:55:12 -0700
From: pilcrow@pp.info
Subject: Re: Value of "Programming perl" 1st Ed.?
Message-Id: <jo5a745etumu699p138ek8qs4ipqfsn98q@4ax.com>
On Wed, 09 Jul 2008 17:25:48 GMT, Uri Guttman <uri@stemsystems.com>
wrote:
>talking
>perl is how you gain creds. flaming others for foolish reasons gains you
>nothing but kill file entries.
look in the mirror, uri
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 09 Jul 2008 13:01:03 -0700
From: Skyler <skyler@shaw.ca>
Subject: Re: Value of "Programming perl" 1st Ed.?
Message-Id: <5O8dk.31847$ZE5.4613@nlpi061.nbdc.sbc.com>
Marc Bissonnette wrote:
> Skyler <skyler@shaw.ca> fell face-first on the keyboard. This was the
> result: news:%N6dk.13229$uE5.8170@flpi144.ffdc.sbc.com:
>
> > Uri Guttman wrote:
> >>>>>>> "S" == Skyler <skyler@shaw.ca> writes:
> > > S> Thanks. With you to fûck with, it couldn't get anymore fun. Sorta
> > > S> reminds me of cow tipping.
> > >
> > > nah, you still don't get it. i am the regular here with respect.
> >
> > Respect? Why would anyone respect someone who gives them none.
> >
> > > you are the mouse if you haven't figured that out.
> >
> > Perhaps only in the Tom & Jerry sense. It seems every time you swipe at
> > me, you can't quite hit the target, and before you realize it, I've run
> > under you and crammed your tail into a power socket.
> >
> > > flaming others for foolish reasons
> >
> > Yet it's perfectly ok for you and your kind to do so to others.
> >
> > -sky
>
> How about Uri gives respect by commenting on actual perl and processes ?
He comments yes, but he DISrespects a great many people who disagree
with him. How many times must he make a fool of himself, publicly, here
in this group before people like you open your eyes.
> You may not like all his responses, they may not always agree with your
> ideals, but his perl responses have always been helpful and have always
> indicated a newer direction of thought for those of us who aren't as
> accomplished as he is in the language (And that is no rear-kissing, as it
> is simple fact).
This isn't about my view or ideals. It's about him telling everyone to
do this and that, and then turns around and does the opposite, like the
rather noisy threads he and Sherman started, which amounted nothing more
than ego-soul-mating that clearly did not belong here but in email. If
people outside of your inner circle did the same thing, they would be
told to knock it off.
> You jumped into an innocuous thread by asking a regular to 'get a room'
Only telling them what they've told others for doing the same thing.
Anyone who knows how to think can easily see the one sidedness around here.
-sky
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 09 Jul 2008 20:40:33 GMT
From: Uri Guttman <uri@stemsystems.com>
Subject: Re: Value of "Programming perl" 1st Ed.?
Message-Id: <x7od56iyf2.fsf@mail.sysarch.com>
>>>>> "p" == pilcrow <pilcrow@pp.info> writes:
p> On Wed, 09 Jul 2008 17:25:48 GMT, Uri Guttman <uri@stemsystems.com>
p> wrote:
>> talking
>> perl is how you gain creds. flaming others for foolish reasons gains you
>> nothing but kill file entries.
p> look in the mirror, uri
sorry bub, but i am on the high ground here. i have good reasons to
toast the kiddie. you may not agree but again, you don't post perl stuff
so your opinion doesn't count. look up meritocracy in your dictionary.
uri
--
Uri Guttman ------ uri@stemsystems.com -------- http://www.sysarch.com --
----- Perl Code Review , Architecture, Development, Training, Support ------
--------- Free Perl Training --- http://perlhunter.com/college.html ---------
--------- Gourmet Hot Cocoa Mix ---- http://bestfriendscocoa.com ---------
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 09 Jul 2008 20:42:16 GMT
From: Uri Guttman <uri@stemsystems.com>
Subject: Re: Value of "Programming perl" 1st Ed.?
Message-Id: <x7k5fuiyc6.fsf@mail.sysarch.com>
>>>>> "S" == Skyler <skyler@shaw.ca> writes:
S> Only telling them what they've told others for doing the same
S> thing. Anyone who knows how to think can easily see the one sidedness
S> around here.
nope, only one eyed snakes like you see it that way. stick around here
for a few years at least before you make more foolish comments. you have
no backing here so shut up already. you are just digging deeper and
deeper. hear any chinese yet?
uri
--
Uri Guttman ------ uri@stemsystems.com -------- http://www.sysarch.com --
----- Perl Code Review , Architecture, Development, Training, Support ------
--------- Free Perl Training --- http://perlhunter.com/college.html ---------
--------- Gourmet Hot Cocoa Mix ---- http://bestfriendscocoa.com ---------
------------------------------
Date: 6 Apr 2001 21:33:47 GMT (Last modified)
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------------------------------
End of Perl-Users Digest V11 Issue 1706
***************************************
