[30446] in Perl-Users-Digest
Perl-Users Digest, Issue: 1689 Volume: 11
daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (Perl-Users Digest)
Fri Jul 4 11:09:40 2008
Date: Fri, 4 Jul 2008 08:09:06 -0700 (PDT)
From: Perl-Users Digest <Perl-Users-Request@ruby.OCE.ORST.EDU>
To: Perl-Users@ruby.OCE.ORST.EDU (Perl-Users Digest)
Perl-Users Digest Fri, 4 Jul 2008 Volume: 11 Number: 1689
Today's topics:
Re: comp.lang.perl.misc pollution <kkeller-usenet@wombat.san-francisco.ca.us>
Re: comp.lang.perl.misc pollution <sean.prawn@gmail.com>
Re: FAQ 8.28 How can I call backticks without shell pro <szrRE@szromanMO.comVE>
Re: Formatting ASCII to be read by Windows NotePad <wgumgfy@gmail.com>
Re: Formatting ASCII to be read by Windows NotePad <spamtrap@dot-app.org>
Free Webinars on PMP Certification Awareness and Roadma <makarand794@gmail.com>
Re: kill process when file number reached... <someone@example.com>
new CPAN modules on Fri Jul 4 2008 (Randal Schwartz)
Posting Guidelines for comp.lang.perl.misc ($Revision: tadmc@seesig.invalid
Digest Administrivia (Last modified: 6 Apr 01) (Perl-Users-Digest Admin)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Thu, 3 Jul 2008 21:57:25 -0700
From: Keith Keller <kkeller-usenet@wombat.san-francisco.ca.us>
Subject: Re: comp.lang.perl.misc pollution
Message-Id: <m6n0k5x33i.ln2@goaway.wombat.san-francisco.ca.us>
On 2008-07-03, sln@netherlands.com <sln@netherlands.com> wrote:
>
> Free Agent is good if you can still find it.
How is Free Agent, anyway? I heard it's good if you can get it.
I like slrn; easily available for un*x (including OS X); can probably
get it as part of Cygwin for Windows too.
--keith
--
kkeller-usenet@wombat.san-francisco.ca.us
(try just my userid to email me)
AOLSFAQ=http://www.therockgarden.ca/aolsfaq.txt
see X- headers for PGP signature information
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 4 Jul 2008 06:22:36 +0100
From: prawn <sean.prawn@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: comp.lang.perl.misc pollution
Message-Id: <slo0k5-0u5.ln1@prawn.mine.nu>
On Thu, 03 Jul 2008 10:40:28 -0700, nolo contendere wrote:
> This isn't about Perl, but it is about this newsgroup. I'm becoming
> irritated by the spam that I see (I use Google Groups) and was wondering
> if someone could suggest a great free newsreader, as well as where and
> how to acquire it.
I cheat and use leafnode as a downstream server. I then filter on the
number of cross-posted groups[1] in a post and the names of cross-posted
groups[2].
Then I can use which ever news client I like and don't have to mess about
with kill-files.
[1] /etc/news/leafnode/config : maxcrosspost = n
[2] /etc/news/leafnode/filters: ^Newsgroups:.^alt.* or any re you like
--
p BotM#1 LotR#9
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 4 Jul 2008 07:37:10 -0700
From: "szr" <szrRE@szromanMO.comVE>
Subject: Re: FAQ 8.28 How can I call backticks without shell processing?
Message-Id: <g4lcin013fh@news4.newsguy.com>
Uri Guttman wrote:
>>>>>> "s" == szr <szrRE@szromanMO.comVE> writes:
>
> s> PerlFAQ Server wrote:
> s> [...]
> >> 8.28: How can I call backticks without shell processing?
> s> [...]
> >> open( GREP, "-|", 'grep', @opts, $search_string,
> >> @filenames ); chomp(@ok = <GREP>);
> >> close GREP;
>
> s> Just a little thing I noticed, regarding the use of @opts and
> @filenames s> arrays above; unless each element has a leading or
> trailing space, they s> will end up smushed together:
>
> s> if, say, @opts contains ('-a', '-b', '--ccc'), when passed to that
> s> open() it will end up becoming -a-b--ccc which is probably not
> what most s> would want. Putting a join() around both @opts and
> @filenames would get s> what most would like (and possibly using a
> map { "'$_'" } @filename to s> quote the filenames in case they
> contain sapces.)
>
> where did you get that idea? this invokes exec with a list (see
> perldoc -f exec. and for proof:
>
> perl -e '@e = qw( a b c ); open( $e, "-|", 'echo', @e ); print <$e>'
> a b c
>
> echo printed its args with spaces as expected so it got 3 separate
> args and not 'abc' as you claim it would.
Curious, I thought the behavior would be like:
$ perl -e '@e = qw( a b c ); print @e'
which yields 'abc', as I saw that after the first three arguement of the
normal 3 arg open() it appeared to take a list of additional args that
is passes to what ever you opened. I didn't know it separates them like
it does. Good to know.
--
szr
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 3 Jul 2008 21:29:08 -0700
From: "Waylen Gumbal" <wgumgfy@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Formatting ASCII to be read by Windows NotePad
Message-Id: <6d5n8mF10agsU1@mid.individual.net>
Sherman Pendley wrote:
> "Waylen Gumbal" <wgumgfy@gmail.com> writes:
>
> > Sherman Pendley wrote:
> > > UnRiel <bdwhite@gmail.com> writes:
> > >
> > > > I have a nice PERL script I use to generate CISCO configurations
> > >
> > > No need to shout - neither Perl nor Cisco are acronyms.
> >
> > I don't think two all-caps words in a sentence that's otherwise
> > properly cased really constitutes shouting.
>
> It's shouting those words.
Not in that context it wasn't.
> > > Transfer the files in text mode. That will translate the line
> > > endings as needed.
> >
> > While it is common to use ASCII mode one should still take care, as
> > this isn't always guarenteed to work. There used (still are?) issues
> > with this when uploading to MacOS based servers, for example.
>
> Such as?
I've had issues in the past uploading to a MacOS based ftp server
(remember that Mac uses \r for line endings, where as Win32 uses \r\n,
and most Linux and Unix systems use \n) and when uploading in "ASCII"
mode, the line endings became \n instead of \r (this happened with 3
different ftp clients, including the command line ftp client, so I
attribute the problem likely was the server wasn't properly telling the
client what sort of platform it was (what line endings it used.)
I'm sure theres other examples of this problem; it can come from
improperly configured ftp servers or clients too.
--
wg
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 04 Jul 2008 10:56:12 -0400
From: Sherman Pendley <spamtrap@dot-app.org>
Subject: Re: Formatting ASCII to be read by Windows NotePad
Message-Id: <m1od5dvgtv.fsf@dot-app.org>
"Waylen Gumbal" <wgumgfy@gmail.com> writes:
> Sherman Pendley wrote:
>> "Waylen Gumbal" <wgumgfy@gmail.com> writes:
>>
>> > Sherman Pendley wrote:
>> > > UnRiel <bdwhite@gmail.com> writes:
>> > >
>> > > > I have a nice PERL script I use to generate CISCO configurations
>> > >
>> > > No need to shout - neither Perl nor Cisco are acronyms.
>> >
>> > I don't think two all-caps words in a sentence that's otherwise
>> > properly cased really constitutes shouting.
>>
>> It's shouting those words.
>
> Not in that context it wasn't.
You must be new to usenet. All caps is considered shouting here,
unless that's the correct spelling of a word or acronym, and as I
said, that applies to neither Perl nor Cisco.
>> > > Transfer the files in text mode. That will translate the line
>> > > endings as needed.
>> >
>> > While it is common to use ASCII mode one should still take care, as
>> > this isn't always guarenteed to work. There used (still are?) issues
>> > with this when uploading to MacOS based servers, for example.
>>
>> Such as?
>
> I've had issues in the past uploading to a MacOS based ftp server
> (remember that Mac uses \r for line endings, where as Win32 uses \r\n,
> and most Linux and Unix systems use \n)
I've been using a Mac for ten years, and I wrote the readme.macosx
that's included with Perl. So spare me the lectures.
Yes, I do remember that MacOS once, many years ago when "classic"
MacOS was relevant, used to use \r. Mac OS X uses \n, just like any
other Unix, as documented here:
<http://developer.apple.com/documentation/MacOSX/Conceptual/BPFileSystem/Articles/FileSystemGuidelines.html>
<http://tinyurl.com/58w7dy>
This ain't your grandpa's Mac any more. Try to keep up, OK?
> and when uploading in "ASCII"
> mode, the line endings became \n instead of \r (this happened with 3
> different ftp clients, including the command line ftp client, so I
> attribute the problem likely was the server wasn't properly telling the
> client what sort of platform it was (what line endings it used.)
You're beginning to try my patience. This is little more than "it
didn't work." What *specific* server app were you connecting to? What
client were you using? What version of both?
Note that according to RFC 959, the client sends \r\n pairs in ASCII
mode, which the server translates to its native format. Because a
"neutral" format is used in transit, neither client nor server is
aware, nor needs to be aware of the native format used by the other,
by design. Your attribution of the problem, as you wrote it above,
makes no sense.
Do you have anything *useful* to say here? Do you actually understand
the FTP protocol? Did you actually debug the problem you had? Or are
you basically just saying "I had a problem in the past, and it must
have been the Mac at the other end because Macs are weird"?
sherm--
--
My blog: http://shermspace.blogspot.com
Cocoa programming in Perl: http://camelbones.sourceforge.net
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 3 Jul 2008 22:26:57 -0700 (PDT)
From: makarand <makarand794@gmail.com>
Subject: Free Webinars on PMP Certification Awareness and Roadmap
Message-Id: <0fb4482e-5ded-43e5-b9a7-0f1f09c17cec@u36g2000prf.googlegroups.com>
Dear Freinds
I came across a website which conducts Free Webinars on PMP
Certification (Project Management Institute, USA) Awareness and
The Roadmap. It proved to be quite useful.
This Training Institute also provides live online lectures on PMP
Certification Preparation at very competitive rates and also have
full website support as Contents / Downloads / Question Bank of
Over 1200 questions / Online support for all your queries.
If you are interested in becoming a PMP Certified Professional -
do visit the following link
http://www.pmsoftglobal.com/Free-serv-Webinars.html
Makarand
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 04 Jul 2008 04:53:31 GMT
From: "John W. Krahn" <someone@example.com>
Subject: Re: kill process when file number reached...
Message-Id: <f1ibk.50536$kx.623@pd7urf3no>
Eric Pozharski wrote:
> onlineviewer <lancerset@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> @y=split(' ', $x);
>> $c=$y[1];
>
> $c = (split m{\s+}, $x)[1];
split ' ' and split m{\s+} do different things so the list element ()[1]
may not return the expected result depending on whether there is leading
whitespace in $x.
John
--
Perl isn't a toolbox, but a small machine shop where you
can special-order certain sorts of tools at low cost and
in short order. -- Larry Wall
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 4 Jul 2008 04:42:18 GMT
From: merlyn@stonehenge.com (Randal Schwartz)
Subject: new CPAN modules on Fri Jul 4 2008
Message-Id: <K3Gt2I.20nr@zorch.sf-bay.org>
The following modules have recently been added to or updated in the
Comprehensive Perl Archive Network (CPAN). You can install them using the
instructions in the 'perlmodinstall' page included with your Perl
distribution.
Acme-Meow-0.01
http://search.cpan.org/~foolish/Acme-Meow-0.01/
It's the kitty you've always wanted
----
Apache2-checkReferer-0.01
http://search.cpan.org/~hvoers/Apache2-checkReferer-0.01/
Prevent most "deep linking"
----
Apache2-checkReferer-0.02
http://search.cpan.org/~hvoers/Apache2-checkReferer-0.02/
Prevent most "deep linking"
----
App-MadEye-0.06
http://search.cpan.org/~tokuhirom/App-MadEye-0.06/
enterprise-class monitoring solutions
----
App-SVN-Bisect-0.5
http://search.cpan.org/~infinoid/App-SVN-Bisect-0.5/
binary search through svn revisions
----
Archive-Tar-Wrapper-0.12
http://search.cpan.org/~mschilli/Archive-Tar-Wrapper-0.12/
API wrapper around the 'tar' utility
----
Business-OnlinePayment-IPPay-0.02
http://search.cpan.org/~jef/Business-OnlinePayment-IPPay-0.02/
IPPay backend for Business::OnlinePayment
----
Cache-CacheFactory-1.01
http://search.cpan.org/~sgraham/Cache-CacheFactory-1.01/
factory class for Cache::Cache and other modules.
----
Cache-CacheFactory-1.02
http://search.cpan.org/~sgraham/Cache-CacheFactory-1.02/
factory class for Cache::Cache and other modules.
----
Cache-Memcached-libmemcached-0.02008
http://search.cpan.org/~dmaki/Cache-Memcached-libmemcached-0.02008/
Perl Interface to libmemcached
----
Catalyst-Authentication-Credential-OpenID-0.05
http://search.cpan.org/~ashley/Catalyst-Authentication-Credential-OpenID-0.05/
OpenID credential for Catalyst::Plugin::Authentication framework.
----
Catalyst-Authentication-Credential-OpenID-0.06
http://search.cpan.org/~ashley/Catalyst-Authentication-Credential-OpenID-0.06/
OpenID credential for Catalyst::Plugin::Authentication framework.
----
Catalyst-Controller-WrapCGI-0.002
http://search.cpan.org/~rkitover/Catalyst-Controller-WrapCGI-0.002/
Run CGIs in Catalyst
----
Catalyst-Controller-WrapCGI-0.0021
http://search.cpan.org/~rkitover/Catalyst-Controller-WrapCGI-0.0021/
Run CGIs in Catalyst
----
Catalyst-Plugin-Authentication-Store-DBIC-0.10
http://search.cpan.org/~mstrout/Catalyst-Plugin-Authentication-Store-DBIC-0.10/
**DEPRECATED** Authentication and authorization against a DBIx::Class or Class::DBI model.
----
Catalyst-Plugin-Devel-ModuleVersions-0.0001
http://search.cpan.org/~andremar/Catalyst-Plugin-Devel-ModuleVersions-0.0001/
----
Config-Format-Ini-0.06
http://search.cpan.org/~ioannis/Config-Format-Ini-0.06/
Reads INI configuration files
----
Curses-UI-0.9604
http://search.cpan.org/~mdxi/Curses-UI-0.9604/
A curses based OO user interface framework
----
Data-RandomKeep-0.01
http://search.cpan.org/~lucs/Data-RandomKeep-0.01/
Randomly keep a given number of offered items.
----
Data-Vitals-1.06
http://search.cpan.org/~adamk/Data-Vitals-1.06/
The Perl "Vital Statistics" Library
----
File-Mangle-0.02
http://search.cpan.org/~msmith/File-Mangle-0.02/
Perl module for file manipulation
----
File-PathInfo-Ext-1.24
http://search.cpan.org/~leocharre/File-PathInfo-Ext-1.24/
metadata files, renaming, some other things on top of PathInfo
----
Games-Ratings-0.0.4
http://search.cpan.org/~bartolin/Games-Ratings-0.0.4/
generic methods for rating calculation (e.g. chess ratings)
----
Gtk2-Ex-CellLayout-Base-3
http://search.cpan.org/~kryde/Gtk2-Ex-CellLayout-Base-3/
basic Gtk2::CellLayout implementation functions
----
Gtk2-Ex-TickerView-5
http://search.cpan.org/~kryde/Gtk2-Ex-TickerView-5/
scrolling ticker display widget
----
HTML-Perlinfo-1.52
http://search.cpan.org/~accardo/HTML-Perlinfo-1.52/
Display a lot of Perl information in HTML format
----
IO-CaptureOutput-1.09
http://search.cpan.org/~dagolden/IO-CaptureOutput-1.09/
capture STDOUT and STDERR from Perl code, subprocesses or XS
----
JS-Test-Simple-0.24
http://search.cpan.org/~ingy/JS-Test-Simple-0.24/
Basic utilities for writing JavaScript tests.
----
Language-Befunge-4.02
http://search.cpan.org/~jquelin/Language-Befunge-4.02/
a generic funge interpreter
----
List-Extract-0.03
http://search.cpan.org/~lodin/List-Extract-0.03/
grep and splice combined
----
Locale-Maketext-AutoTranslate-0.1
http://search.cpan.org/~xern/Locale-Maketext-AutoTranslate-0.1/
Translate L10N messages automatically
----
Math-Goedel-0.02
http://search.cpan.org/~turugina/Math-Goedel-0.02/
Fundamental Goedel number calculator
----
Moose-0.52
http://search.cpan.org/~stevan/Moose-0.52/
A postmodern object system for Perl 5
----
Moose-0.53
http://search.cpan.org/~stevan/Moose-0.53/
A postmodern object system for Perl 5
----
Nmap-Parser-1.15
http://search.cpan.org/~apersaud/Nmap-Parser-1.15/
parse nmap scan data with perl
----
PDF-Reuse-0.35
http://search.cpan.org/~larslund/PDF-Reuse-0.35/
Reuse and mass produce PDF documents
----
Portable-0.11
http://search.cpan.org/~adamk/Portable-0.11/
Perl on a Stick (ALPHA)
----
Rose-DBx-Object-Renderer-0.15
http://search.cpan.org/~danny/Rose-DBx-Object-Renderer-0.15/
Web UI Rendering for Rose::DB::Object
----
Sub-Prepend-0.01
http://search.cpan.org/~lodin/Sub-Prepend-0.01/
Prepend code to named subroutines.
----
Test-TestCoverage-0.07
http://search.cpan.org/~reneeb/Test-TestCoverage-0.07/
Test if your test covers all 'public' subroutines of the package
----
Text-DHCPLeases-v0.6
http://search.cpan.org/~cvicente/Text-DHCPLeases-v0.6/
Parse DHCP leases file from ISC dhcpd.
----
Tk-Wizard-2.138_01
http://search.cpan.org/~lgoddard/Tk-Wizard-2.138_01/
GUI for step-by-step interactive logical process
----
WWW-Discogs-0.02
http://search.cpan.org/~leedo/WWW-Discogs-0.02/
----
WWW-Scroogle-0.0131
http://search.cpan.org/~schlumpf/WWW-Scroogle-0.0131/
Perl Extension for Scroogle
----
WWW-Scroogle-0.0132
http://search.cpan.org/~schlumpf/WWW-Scroogle-0.0132/
Perl Extension for Scroogle
----
XML-Bare-SAX-Parser-0.01
http://search.cpan.org/~codechild/XML-Bare-SAX-Parser-0.01/
If you're an author of one of these modules, please submit a detailed
announcement to comp.lang.perl.announce, and we'll pass it along.
This message was generated by a Perl program described in my Linux
Magazine column, which can be found on-line (along with more than
200 other freely available past column articles) at
http://www.stonehenge.com/merlyn/LinuxMag/col82.html
print "Just another Perl hacker," # the original
--
Randal L. Schwartz - Stonehenge Consulting Services, Inc. - +1 503 777 0095
<merlyn@stonehenge.com> <URL:http://www.stonehenge.com/merlyn/>
Smalltalk/Perl/Unix consulting, Technical writing, Comedy, etc. etc.
See http://methodsandmessages.vox.com/ for Smalltalk and Seaside discussion
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 04 Jul 2008 06:15:17 GMT
From: tadmc@seesig.invalid
Subject: Posting Guidelines for comp.lang.perl.misc ($Revision: 1.8 $)
Message-Id: <Vdjbk.13098$uE5.2798@flpi144.ffdc.sbc.com>
Outline
Before posting to comp.lang.perl.misc
Must
- Check the Perl Frequently Asked Questions (FAQ)
- Check the other standard Perl docs (*.pod)
Really Really Should
- Lurk for a while before posting
- Search a Usenet archive
If You Like
- Check Other Resources
Posting to comp.lang.perl.misc
Is there a better place to ask your question?
- Question should be about Perl, not about the application area
How to participate (post) in the clpmisc community
- Carefully choose the contents of your Subject header
- Use an effective followup style
- Speak Perl rather than English, when possible
- Ask perl to help you
- Do not re-type Perl code
- Provide enough information
- Do not provide too much information
- Do not post binaries, HTML, or MIME
Social faux pas to avoid
- Asking a Frequently Asked Question
- Asking a question easily answered by a cursory doc search
- Asking for emailed answers
- Beware of saying "doesn't work"
- Sending a "stealth" Cc copy
Be extra cautious when you get upset
- Count to ten before composing a followup when you are upset
- Count to ten after composing and before posting when you are upset
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Posting Guidelines for comp.lang.perl.misc ($Revision: 1.8 $)
This newsgroup, commonly called clpmisc, is a technical newsgroup
intended to be used for discussion of Perl related issues (except job
postings), whether it be comments or questions.
As you would expect, clpmisc discussions are usually very technical in
nature and there are conventions for conduct in technical newsgroups
going somewhat beyond those in non-technical newsgroups.
The article at:
http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html
describes how to get answers from technical people in general.
This article describes things that you should, and should not, do to
increase your chances of getting an answer to your Perl question. It is
available in POD, HTML and plain text formats at:
http://www.rehabitation.com/clpmisc.shtml
For more information about netiquette in general, see the "Netiquette
Guidelines" at:
http://andrew2.andrew.cmu.edu/rfc/rfc1855.html
A note to newsgroup "regulars":
Do not use these guidelines as a "license to flame" or other
meanness. It is possible that a poster is unaware of things
discussed here. Give them the benefit of the doubt, and just
help them learn how to post, rather than assume that they do
know and are being the "bad kind" of Lazy.
A note about technical terms used here:
In this document, we use words like "must" and "should" as
they're used in technical conversation (such as you will
encounter in this newsgroup). When we say that you *must* do
something, we mean that if you don't do that something, then
it's unlikely that you will benefit much from this group.
We're not bossing you around; we're making the point without
lots of words.
Do *NOT* send email to the maintainer of these guidelines. It will be
discarded unread. The guidelines belong to the newsgroup so all
discussion should appear in the newsgroup. I am just the secretary that
writes down the consensus of the group.
Before posting to comp.lang.perl.misc
Must
This section describes things that you *must* do before posting to
clpmisc, in order to maximize your chances of getting meaningful replies
to your inquiry and to avoid getting flamed for being lazy and trying to
have others do your work.
The perl distribution includes documentation that is copied to your hard
drive when you install perl. Also installed is a program for looking
things up in that (and other) documentation named 'perldoc'.
You should either find out where the docs got installed on your system,
or use perldoc to find them for you. Type "perldoc perldoc" to learn how
to use perldoc itself. Type "perldoc perl" to start reading Perl's
standard documentation.
Check the Perl Frequently Asked Questions (FAQ)
Checking the FAQ before posting is required in Big 8 newsgroups in
general, there is nothing clpmisc-specific about this requirement.
You are expected to do this in nearly all newsgroups.
You can use the "-q" switch with perldoc to do a word search of the
questions in the Perl FAQs.
Check the other standard Perl docs (*.pod)
The perl distribution comes with much more documentation than is
available for most other newsgroups, so in clpmisc you should also
see if you can find an answer in the other (non-FAQ) standard docs
before posting.
It is *not* required, or even expected, that you actually *read* all of
Perl's standard docs, only that you spend a few minutes searching them
before posting.
Try doing a word-search in the standard docs for some words/phrases
taken from your problem statement or from your very carefully worded
"Subject:" header.
Really Really Should
This section describes things that you *really should* do before posting
to clpmisc.
Lurk for a while before posting
This is very important and expected in all newsgroups. Lurking means
to monitor a newsgroup for a period to become familiar with local
customs. Each newsgroup has specific customs and rituals. Knowing
these before you participate will help avoid embarrassing social
situations. Consider yourself to be a foreigner at first!
Search a Usenet archive
There are tens of thousands of Perl programmers. It is very likely
that your question has already been asked (and answered). See if you
can find where it has already been answered.
One such searchable archive is:
http://groups.google.com/advanced_group_search
If You Like
This section describes things that you *can* do before posting to
clpmisc.
Check Other Resources
You may want to check in books or on web sites to see if you can
find the answer to your question.
But you need to consider the source of such information: there are a
lot of very poor Perl books and web sites, and several good ones
too, of course.
Posting to comp.lang.perl.misc
There can be 200 messages in clpmisc in a single day. Nobody is going to
read every article. They must decide somehow which articles they are
going to read, and which they will skip.
Your post is in competition with 199 other posts. You need to "win"
before a person who can help you will even read your question.
These sections describe how you can help keep your article from being
one of the "skipped" ones.
Is there a better place to ask your question?
Question should be about Perl, not about the application area
It can be difficult to separate out where your problem really is,
but you should make a conscious effort to post to the most
applicable newsgroup. That is, after all, where you are the most
likely to find the people who know how to answer your question.
Being able to "partition" a problem is an essential skill for
effectively troubleshooting programming problems. If you don't get
that right, you end up looking for answers in the wrong places.
It should be understood that you may not know that the root of your
problem is not Perl-related (the two most frequent ones are CGI and
Operating System related), so off-topic postings will happen from
time to time. Be gracious when someone helps you find a better place
to ask your question by pointing you to a more applicable newsgroup.
How to participate (post) in the clpmisc community
Carefully choose the contents of your Subject header
You have 40 precious characters of Subject to win out and be one of
the posts that gets read. Don't waste them. Take care while
composing them, they are the key that opens the door to getting an
answer.
Spend them indicating what aspect of Perl others will find if they
should decide to read your article.
Do not spend them indicating "experience level" (guru, newbie...).
Do not spend them pleading (please read, urgent, help!...).
Do not spend them on non-Subjects (Perl question, one-word
Subject...)
For more information on choosing a Subject see "Choosing Good
Subject Lines":
http://www.cpan.org/authors/id/D/DM/DMR/subjects.post
Part of the beauty of newsgroup dynamics, is that you can contribute
to the community with your very first post! If your choice of
Subject leads a fellow Perler to find the thread you are starting,
then even asking a question helps us all.
Use an effective followup style
When composing a followup, quote only enough text to establish the
context for the comments that you will add. Always indicate who
wrote the quoted material. Never quote an entire article. Never
quote a .signature (unless that is what you are commenting on).
Intersperse your comments *following* each section of quoted text to
which they relate. Unappreciated followup styles are referred to as
"top-posting", "Jeopardy" (because the answer comes before the
question), or "TOFU" (Text Over, Fullquote Under).
Reversing the chronology of the dialog makes it much harder to
understand (some folks won't even read it if written in that style).
For more information on quoting style, see:
http://web.presby.edu/~nnqadmin/nnq/nquote.html
Speak Perl rather than English, when possible
Perl is much more precise than natural language. Saying it in Perl
instead will avoid misunderstanding your question or problem.
Do not say: I have variable with "foo\tbar" in it.
Instead say: I have $var = "foo\tbar", or I have $var = 'foo\tbar',
or I have $var = <DATA> (and show the data line).
Ask perl to help you
You can ask perl itself to help you find common programming mistakes
by doing two things: enable warnings (perldoc warnings) and enable
"strict"ures (perldoc strict).
You should not bother the hundreds/thousands of readers of the
newsgroup without first seeing if a machine can help you find your
problem. It is demeaning to be asked to do the work of a machine. It
will annoy the readers of your article.
You can look up any of the messages that perl might issue to find
out what the message means and how to resolve the potential mistake
(perldoc perldiag). If you would like perl to look them up for you,
you can put "use diagnostics;" near the top of your program.
Do not re-type Perl code
Use copy/paste or your editor's "import" function rather than
attempting to type in your code. If you make a typo you will get
followups about your typos instead of about the question you are
trying to get answered.
Provide enough information
If you do the things in this item, you will have an Extremely Good
chance of getting people to try and help you with your problem!
These features are a really big bonus toward your question winning
out over all of the other posts that you are competing with.
First make a short (less than 20-30 lines) and *complete* program
that illustrates the problem you are having. People should be able
to run your program by copy/pasting the code from your article. (You
will find that doing this step very often reveals your problem
directly. Leading to an answer much more quickly and reliably than
posting to Usenet.)
Describe *precisely* the input to your program. Also provide example
input data for your program. If you need to show file input, use the
__DATA__ token (perldata.pod) to provide the file contents inside of
your Perl program.
Show the output (including the verbatim text of any messages) of
your program.
Describe how you want the output to be different from what you are
getting.
If you have no idea at all of how to code up your situation, be sure
to at least describe the 2 things that you *do* know: input and
desired output.
Do not provide too much information
Do not just post your entire program for debugging. Most especially
do not post someone *else's* entire program.
Do not post binaries, HTML, or MIME
clpmisc is a text only newsgroup. If you have images or binaries
that explain your question, put them in a publically accessible
place (like a Web server) and provide a pointer to that location. If
you include code, cut and paste it directly in the message body.
Don't attach anything to the message. Don't post vcards or HTML.
Many people (and even some Usenet servers) will automatically filter
out such messages. Many people will not be able to easily read your
post. Plain text is something everyone can read.
Social faux pas to avoid
The first two below are symptoms of lots of FAQ asking here in clpmisc.
It happens so often that folks will assume that it is happening yet
again. If you have looked but not found, or found but didn't understand
the docs, say so in your article.
Asking a Frequently Asked Question
It should be understood that you may have missed the applicable FAQ
when you checked, which is not a big deal. But if the Frequently
Asked Question is worded similar to your question, folks will assume
that you did not look at all. Don't become indignant at pointers to
the FAQ, particularly if it solves your problem.
Asking a question easily answered by a cursory doc search
If folks think you have not even tried the obvious step of reading
the docs applicable to your problem, they are likely to become
annoyed.
If you are flamed for not checking when you *did* check, then just
shrug it off (and take the answer that you got).
Asking for emailed answers
Emailed answers benefit one person. Posted answers benefit the
entire community. If folks can take the time to answer your
question, then you can take the time to go get the answer in the
same place where you asked the question.
It is OK to ask for a *copy* of the answer to be emailed, but many
will ignore such requests anyway. If you munge your address, you
should never expect (or ask) to get email in response to a Usenet
post.
Ask the question here, get the answer here (maybe).
Beware of saying "doesn't work"
This is a "red flag" phrase. If you find yourself writing that,
pause and see if you can't describe what is not working without
saying "doesn't work". That is, describe how it is not what you
want.
Sending a "stealth" Cc copy
A "stealth Cc" is when you both email and post a reply without
indicating *in the body* that you are doing so.
Be extra cautious when you get upset
Count to ten before composing a followup when you are upset
This is recommended in all Usenet newsgroups. Here in clpmisc, most
flaming sub-threads are not about any feature of Perl at all! They
are most often for what was seen as a breach of netiquette. If you
have lurked for a bit, then you will know what is expected and won't
make such posts in the first place.
But if you get upset, wait a while before writing your followup. I
recommend waiting at least 30 minutes.
Count to ten after composing and before posting when you are upset
After you have written your followup, wait *another* 30 minutes
before committing yourself by posting it. You cannot take it back
once it has been said.
AUTHOR
Tad McClellan and many others on the comp.lang.perl.misc newsgroup.
--
Tad McClellan
email: perl -le "print scalar reverse qq/moc.noitatibaher\100cmdat/"
------------------------------
Date: 6 Apr 2001 21:33:47 GMT (Last modified)
From: Perl-Users-Request@ruby.oce.orst.edu (Perl-Users-Digest Admin)
Subject: Digest Administrivia (Last modified: 6 Apr 01)
Message-Id: <null>
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End of Perl-Users Digest V11 Issue 1689
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