[30409] in Perl-Users-Digest
Perl-Users Digest, Issue: 1652 Volume: 11
daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (Perl-Users Digest)
Tue Jun 17 14:14:19 2008
Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2008 11:14:11 -0700 (PDT)
From: Perl-Users Digest <Perl-Users-Request@ruby.OCE.ORST.EDU>
To: Perl-Users@ruby.OCE.ORST.EDU (Perl-Users Digest)
Perl-Users Digest Tue, 17 Jun 2008 Volume: 11 Number: 1652
Today's topics:
Re: Learning Perl <brian.d.foy@gmail.com>
Re: Learning Perl <sbour@niaid.nih.gov>
Re: Learning Perl <sbour@niaid.nih.gov>
Re: Learning Perl <sbour@niaid.nih.gov>
Re: Learning Perl <sbour@niaid.nih.gov>
Re: Learning Perl <uri@stemsystems.com>
Re: Learning Perl <uri@stemsystems.com>
Re: Learning Perl <uri@stemsystems.com>
Re: Learning Perl <szrRE@szromanMO.comVE>
Re: Learning Perl <g....c.e@gmail.com>
Re: rt.cpan.org works ok (was: Re: rt.cpan.org, search. <brian.d.foy@gmail.com>
Digest Administrivia (Last modified: 6 Apr 01) (Perl-Users-Digest Admin)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2008 09:08:59 -0500
From: brian d foy <brian.d.foy@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Learning Perl
Message-Id: <170620080908598690%brian.d.foy@gmail.com>
In article <6bnig6F3b3ja4U1@mid.individual.net>, Gordon Corbin Etly
<gord.c.e@gmail.com> wrote:
> That is a list in an anonymous array. The list is the literal
> representation of the array.
>
> Just like in c or C++
>
> int arr[5] = {1, 2, 3, 4, 5};
>
> This was always considered the literal form of arr[0]=1; arrar[1]=2;
on the right hand side you have the container, and on the left hand
side you have the data. In Perl, you don't always need to have the data
in a container. That's why an array holds a list, but not every list
is an array.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2008 07:53:53 -0700
From: "Stephan Bour" <sbour@niaid.nih.gov>
Subject: Re: Learning Perl
Message-Id: <5eQ5k.4381$L_.2349@flpi150.ffdc.sbc.com>
Uri Guttman wrote:
} guess what this code prints. or better yet since you won't guess, run
} it and explain it. then defend defined on aggregates. pretty simple
} looking code!
}
}
} use strict ;
} use warnings ;
}
} foreach ( 1 .. 3 ) {
}
} my @array ;
} print "defined $_\n" if defined @array ;
} print "empty $_\n" unless @array ;
} @array = (1) ;
} }
---
defined(@array) is deprecated at - line 7.
(Maybe you should just omit the defined()?)
empty LANG
defined LANG
empty LANG
defined LANG
empty LANG
---
Since 'my @array' is insid the loop, then it should be starting at an
undefiend state each time. It seems it would be better to fix defined's
broken bahavior rather than just deprecating it. I agree with what other
people have said; it should return False when it is unefined (declared but
not assigned anything, or undef() called upon it.)
Stephan.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2008 07:57:28 -0700
From: "Stephan Bour" <sbour@niaid.nih.gov>
Subject: Re: Learning Perl
Message-Id: <shQ5k.4382$L_.1935@flpi150.ffdc.sbc.com>
Jim Cochrane wrote:
} On 2008-06-17, Gordon Corbin Etly <gremoveord.c.e@gmail.com> wrote:
} > Uri Guttman wrote:
} > > "GCE" == Gordon Corbin Etly <gord.REMOVE.c.e@gmail.com> writes:
} >
} > > > > C:\> perl -we "my @arr; print int(defined(@arr)), qq{\n}"
} > > > > defined(@array) is deprecated at -e line 1.
} > > > > (Maybe you should just omit the defined()?)
} > > > > 0
} >
} > > > Maybe it's depreciated, but it still serves to illustrate the
} > > > point that the array or hash, before being initialized, are
} > > > undefined in any sense of the word. So maybe it's not literally
} > > > "undef", it might as well be.
} >
} > > do you know what DEPRECATED means? it ain't depreciated. caps were
} > > used to help the learning handicapped.
} >
} > Do you really have to insult people over a silly typo? Is it possible
} > for you to carry a civil conversation?
}
} Sounds like you're new to USENET. They used to be called "flames"
} (maybe still are).
Agreed. Every thread I see Uri jump into recently seems to turn into a flame
pit. I wish he would grow up and learn to make civilized responses so this
group can carry decent discussions instead of escalating into childish
scuffles.
Stephan.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2008 08:01:02 -0700
From: "Stephan Bour" <sbour@niaid.nih.gov>
Subject: Re: Learning Perl
Message-Id: <OkQ5k.4383$L_.3826@flpi150.ffdc.sbc.com>
Uri Guttman wrote:
} "JC" == Jim Cochrane <allergic-to-spam@no-spam-allowed.org>
} writes:
} > Sounds like you're new to USENET. They used to be called "flames"
} > (maybe still are).
}
} you joined in too late. troll gordon is the one to blame. :)
The only one acting like a troll in this thread is you. I see nothing but
insults coming from your direction. Why aren't you setting an example, as a
veteran of this news group, of how to engage in a proper, civilized, and
mature discussion? It seems to me you are doing the exact opposite, and then
branding the "other guy" as a troll? Very mature indeed.
Stephan.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2008 08:06:22 -0700
From: "Stephan Bour" <sbour@niaid.nih.gov>
Subject: Re: Learning Perl
Message-Id: <OpQ5k.5389$N87.1790@nlpi068.nbdc.sbc.com>
Uri Guttman wrote:
> "GCE" == Gordon Corbin Etly <g....c.e@gmail.com> writes:
}
} > You're not civil period. You stoop to childish name calling and
} > you're not adding anything to the thread. You're a pompous old
} > fool who get see passed more than 3 meters in front of them and
} > seems to believe he is god's gift to the Perl community.
}
} nah, i $DEITY's punishment for you. you are the one feeling the pain.
} i am toying with you like a cat with a mortally wounded mouse.
First off, your first sentence makes no sense.., for instance, "I God's
punishment for you"? Second, how can you dare call anyone else a troll after
(delusional) behavior like this?
Stephan.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2008 15:14:01 GMT
From: Uri Guttman <uri@stemsystems.com>
Subject: Re: Learning Perl
Message-Id: <x7d4mgdrgm.fsf@mail.sysarch.com>
>>>>> "SB" == Stephan Bour <sbour@niaid.nih.gov> writes:
SB> Agreed. Every thread I see Uri jump into recently seems to turn
SB> into a flame pit. I wish he would grow up and learn to make
SB> civilized responses so this group can carry decent discussions
SB> instead of escalating into childish scuffles.
you don't read many threads then. i don't start flame wars. this thread
was a post about a flash card perl thing. i reviewed it like i review
all things like it, hard and accurately. that is part of my work and i
take it seriously. gordon troll then jumps in to defend things and
attacks my comment style as usual. he is also wrong on several
counts. then he defends defined on aggregates where he is very wrong and
pigheaded to the point of ignoring what the docs say about it being
deprecated. he think and flames it is useful. that is not what i call
civil as it is just stupid. but that is gordo who changes his name all
the time and doesn't listen to those who know perl a wee bit better.
uri
--
Uri Guttman ------ uri@stemsystems.com -------- http://www.sysarch.com --
----- Perl Code Review , Architecture, Development, Training, Support ------
--------- Free Perl Training --- http://perlhunter.com/college.html ---------
--------- Gourmet Hot Cocoa Mix ---- http://bestfriendscocoa.com ---------
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2008 15:14:33 GMT
From: Uri Guttman <uri@stemsystems.com>
Subject: Re: Learning Perl
Message-Id: <x78wx4drfq.fsf@mail.sysarch.com>
>>>>> "SB" == Stephan Bour <sbour@niaid.nih.gov> writes:
SB> Uri Guttman wrote:
SB> } "JC" == Jim Cochrane <allergic-to-spam@no-spam-allowed.org>
SB> } writes:
SB> } > Sounds like you're new to USENET. They used to be called "flames"
SB> } > (maybe still are).
SB> }
SB> } you joined in too late. troll gordon is the one to blame. :)
SB> The only one acting like a troll in this thread is you. I see
SB> nothing but insults coming from your direction. Why aren't you
SB> setting an example, as a veteran of this news group, of how to
SB> engage in a proper, civilized, and mature discussion? It seems to
SB> me you are doing the exact opposite, and then branding the "other
SB> guy" as a troll? Very mature indeed.
boo hoo hoo!
you don't get sarcasm either, do you?
uri
--
Uri Guttman ------ uri@stemsystems.com -------- http://www.sysarch.com --
----- Perl Code Review , Architecture, Development, Training, Support ------
--------- Free Perl Training --- http://perlhunter.com/college.html ---------
--------- Gourmet Hot Cocoa Mix ---- http://bestfriendscocoa.com ---------
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2008 15:15:08 GMT
From: Uri Guttman <uri@stemsystems.com>
Subject: Re: Learning Perl
Message-Id: <x74p7sdres.fsf@mail.sysarch.com>
>>>>> "SB" == Stephan Bour <sbour@niaid.nih.gov> writes:
SB> Uri Guttman wrote:
>> "GCE" == Gordon Corbin Etly <g....c.e@gmail.com> writes:
SB> }
SB> } > You're not civil period. You stoop to childish name calling and
SB> } > you're not adding anything to the thread. You're a pompous old
SB> } > fool who get see passed more than 3 meters in front of them and
SB> } > seems to believe he is god's gift to the Perl community.
SB> }
SB> } nah, i $DEITY's punishment for you. you are the one feeling the pain.
SB> } i am toying with you like a cat with a mortally wounded mouse.
SB> First off, your first sentence makes no sense.., for instance, "I
SB> God's punishment for you"? Second, how can you dare call anyone
SB> else a troll after (delusional) behavior like this?
easy. for i am THE PERL HUNTER. :)
uri
--
Uri Guttman ------ uri@stemsystems.com -------- http://www.sysarch.com --
----- Perl Code Review , Architecture, Development, Training, Support ------
--------- Free Perl Training --- http://perlhunter.com/college.html ---------
--------- Gourmet Hot Cocoa Mix ---- http://bestfriendscocoa.com ---------
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2008 10:00:53 -0700
From: "szr" <szrRE@szromanMO.comVE>
Subject: Re: Learning Perl
Message-Id: <g38qk602659@news4.newsguy.com>
brian d foy wrote:
> In article <6bnig6F3b3ja4U1@mid.individual.net>, Gordon Corbin Etly
> <gord.c.e@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>> That is a list in an anonymous array. The list is the literal
>> representation of the array.
>>
>> Just like in c or C++
>>
>> int arr[5] = {1, 2, 3, 4, 5};
>>
>> This was always considered the literal form of arr[0]=1; arrar[1]=2;
>
> on the right hand side you have the container, and on the left hand
> side you have the data. In Perl, you don't always need to have the
> data in a container. That's why an array holds a list, but not every
> list is an array.
That appears to be the point he was making. That the "value" an array
holds is a list. Maybe some people have conflicting definitions of what
"literal" means in the context of "literal form", which a list can be
viewed as when talking about arrays.
--
szr
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2008 10:09:40 -0700
From: "Gordon Corbin Etly" <g....c.e@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Learning Perl
Message-Id: <6bq9elF3cslmsU1@mid.individual.net>
Uri Guttman wrote:
>>>>>> "GCE" == Gordon Corbin Etly <g....c.e@gmail.com> writes:
> > > years of perl and you didn't know about arrays and undef? or
> > > defined?
> > Why are you assuming I didn't know about that? I was attempting to
> > make civil discussion about a point stemming from Ben Bullock's
> > comments which I still believe has some validity.
> nope. you made wrong statements about arrays and defined. then you
> tried to back them up when the docs said you were wrong.
No, this is bunk. what I said was the behavior seemed to make sense to
me. I never disputed the docs.
> tell me what this will print before you run it. and after you run it
> please come back and beg forgiveness for your thickheadedness on why
> defined makes no sense on arrays.
>
> use strict ;
> use warnings ;
>
> foreach ( 1 .. 3 ) {
>
> my @array ;
> print "defined $_\n" if defined @array ;
> print "empty $_\n" unless @array ;
> @array = (1) ;
> }
Yes you've already posted this. It actually shows what appears to be
broken behavior, given how a new @array is created each time through the
loop. And you still haven't answered my question of why it would be bad
to fix define in a way that it works with scalars - it doesn't seem
unreasonable, especially when that's almost how it works currently,
deprecated or not.
--
G. C. Etly
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2008 09:16:59 -0500
From: brian d foy <brian.d.foy@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: rt.cpan.org works ok (was: Re: rt.cpan.org, search.cpan.org: why so unuseable?)
Message-Id: <170620080916597472%brian.d.foy@gmail.com>
In article
<8cc87737-617d-4c02-a50c-449cc2f5baf4@r66g2000hsg.googlegroups.com>,
Jesse Vincent <jessev@gmail.com> wrote:
> As far as I know, Adam is fairly happy with the work we've done over
> the past year to improve functionality and performance.
That wasn't my impression when we were talking about it over lunch this
weekend when we were figuring out how to avoid using RT but not knowing
of anything better to use.
> Of course, having walked through the archives of the queue we use for
> tracking bug reports and issues in rt.cpan.org, I don't see a single
> email from Brian describing his problems or asking for help.
I'm not much of a complainer, and people had already complained about
what I would have complained about and it's still what it is. It's
slow. I don't know why, or how, and what you need to do to fix that. I
don't think it's high on your list of things to do. I'm not looking for
support because I just deal with it.
I don't start the discussions about RT sucking. I just acknowledge the
situation and defend against the "works for me so must be okay for
everyone" retort.
------------------------------
Date: 6 Apr 2001 21:33:47 GMT (Last modified)
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Subject: Digest Administrivia (Last modified: 6 Apr 01)
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------------------------------
End of Perl-Users Digest V11 Issue 1652
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