[30356] in Perl-Users-Digest
Perl-Users Digest, Issue: 1599 Volume: 11
daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (Perl-Users Digest)
Sun Jun 1 06:09:42 2008
Date: Sun, 1 Jun 2008 03:09:06 -0700 (PDT)
From: Perl-Users Digest <Perl-Users-Request@ruby.OCE.ORST.EDU>
To: Perl-Users@ruby.OCE.ORST.EDU (Perl-Users Digest)
Perl-Users Digest Sun, 1 Jun 2008 Volume: 11 Number: 1599
Today's topics:
Re: FAQ 4.17 How do I find yesterday's date? <brian.d.foy@gmail.com>
Re: Need help with a simple (I think) Perl script <m@rtij.nl.invlalid>
new CPAN modules on Sun Jun 1 2008 (Randal Schwartz)
Re: OT: Thank you for the link! <1usa@llenroc.ude.invalid>
Re: OT: Thank you for the link! <m@rtij.nl.invlalid>
Re: The Importance of Terminology's Quality <szrRE@szromanMO.comVE>
Re: The Importance of Terminology's Quality <arne@vajhoej.dk>
Re: The Importance of Terminology's Quality <arne@vajhoej.dk>
Re: The Importance of Terminology's Quality <szrRE@szromanMO.comVE>
Re: The Importance of Terminology's Quality <NpOeStPeAdM@nnowslpianmk.com>
Re: The Importance of Terminology's Quality <szrRE@szromanMO.comVE>
Digest Administrivia (Last modified: 6 Apr 01) (Perl-Users-Digest Admin)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Sun, 01 Jun 2008 11:24:43 +0200
From: brian d foy <brian.d.foy@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: FAQ 4.17 How do I find yesterday's date?
Message-Id: <010620081124439627%brian.d.foy@gmail.com>
In article <6ab01bF36t3v3U1@mid.individual.net>, Gunnar Hjalmarsson
<noreply@gunnar.cc> wrote:
> The core module Time::Local + localtime() are sufficient to answer the
> FAQ question safely.
>
> use Time::Local;
> my $today = timelocal 0, 0, 12, ( localtime )[3..5];
> my ($d, $m, $y) = ( localtime $today-86400 )[3..5];
> printf "Yesterday: %d-%02d-%02d\n", $y+1900, $m+1, $d;
Added to the FAQ. Thanks,
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 1 Jun 2008 11:41:12 +0200
From: Martijn Lievaart <m@rtij.nl.invlalid>
Subject: Re: Need help with a simple (I think) Perl script
Message-Id: <pan.2008.06.01.09.41.12@rtij.nl.invlalid>
On Fri, 30 May 2008 02:56:44 +0100, Ben Morrow wrote:
> Quoth "Dick Sutton" <rsutton43@comcast.net>:
>
>> Again, I thank those that made an honest attempt to help me, but I
>> believe I may be better served at this point to go to the library and
>> check out a few Perl books and continue learning on my own.
>
> This could be described as 'making an honest attempt to help yourself'.
> Why didn't you do that *before* asking a whole lot of people you've
> never met to help you for free?
Better yet, do both.
Learning Perl is a lot easier with some good books. May I recommend the
O'Reillys? Stay away from all other books unless you know why you want
that other book. Go to a good bookstore so you can thumb the books, see
which one appeals to you.
But don't shy away from this group. The help here is awesome, once you
get the hang of the little rules of this group.
That's certainly not specific to this group. In any group, it is
recommended to "lurk" a while before posting. In a high volume group like
this, lurking is often best done by searching the archives for your
problem, by reading a few dozen threads you'll get a feel for the group.
Also, as Ben pointed out, if you are easily offended, stay away from
usenet in general. Besides some people being naturally rude, some people
are rude because they see the same question for the tenth time that day,
or didn't have their morning coffee yet, or read something into your post
you didn't mean to put there, or...
Or, and even more important, you take offense to a reply that wasn't
meant to be offensive. That may or may not apply to posts in this thread,
but this happens so often I have to mention it.
I think your first contact with this group was unfortunate. To you,
having a runnable program was not important, you just wanted some
pointers. To (most) others, having a runnable program is important, which
you didn't know yet.
I do hope you'll be back, people here are eager to help. Learn the little
rules of this group, ignore the more rude remarks, use Google first, ask
in the group second and try to make a honest attempt at something
runnable before you post.
Hope to see you back!
M4
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 1 Jun 2008 04:42:18 GMT
From: merlyn@stonehenge.com (Randal Schwartz)
Subject: new CPAN modules on Sun Jun 1 2008
Message-Id: <K1rp2I.6K1@zorch.sf-bay.org>
The following modules have recently been added to or updated in the
Comprehensive Perl Archive Network (CPAN). You can install them using the
instructions in the 'perlmodinstall' page included with your Perl
distribution.
API-PleskExpand-1.00
http://search.cpan.org/~nrg/API-PleskExpand-1.00/
OOP interface to the Plesk Expand XML API (http://www.parallels.com/en/products/plesk/expand/).
----
Abstract-Meta-Class-0.07
http://search.cpan.org/~adrianwit/Abstract-Meta-Class-0.07/
Simple meta object protocol implementation.
----
App-Cmd-0.014_02
http://search.cpan.org/~rjbs/App-Cmd-0.014_02/
write command line apps with less suffering
----
Audio-FLAC-Header-2.2
http://search.cpan.org/~daniel/Audio-FLAC-Header-2.2/
interface to FLAC header metadata.
----
CPAN-CachingProxy-1.0.3
http://search.cpan.org/~jettero/CPAN-CachingProxy-1.0.3/
A very simple lightweight CGI based Caching Proxy
----
Class-Lego-0.003
http://search.cpan.org/~ferreira/Class-Lego-0.003/
Build your classes with basic building blocks
----
Coro-4.742
http://search.cpan.org/~mlehmann/Coro-4.742/
coroutine process abstraction
----
Crypt-EAX-0.01
http://search.cpan.org/~nuffin/Crypt-EAX-0.01/
Encrypt and authenticate data in EAX mode
----
Crypt-Util-0.06
http://search.cpan.org/~nuffin/Crypt-Util-0.06/
A lightweight Crypt/Digest convenience API
----
DBIx-Class-PopulateMore-0.01
http://search.cpan.org/~jjnapiork/DBIx-Class-PopulateMore-0.01/
An enhanced populate method
----
DBIx-Class-PopulateMore-0.02
http://search.cpan.org/~jjnapiork/DBIx-Class-PopulateMore-0.02/
An enhanced populate method
----
Digest-CMAC-0.03
http://search.cpan.org/~nuffin/Digest-CMAC-0.03/
The One-key CBC MAC message authentication code.
----
Gtk2-Ex-Dragger-2
http://search.cpan.org/~kryde/Gtk2-Ex-Dragger-2/
drag to move adjustment position
----
Image-ExifTool-7.30
http://search.cpan.org/~exiftool/Image-ExifTool-7.30/
Read and write meta information
----
Net-FriendFeed-0.84
http://search.cpan.org/~kappa/Net-FriendFeed-0.84/
Perl interface to FriendFeed.com API
----
PDF-Create-0.10
http://search.cpan.org/~markusb/PDF-Create-0.10/
create PDF files
----
PDF-Create-1.00
http://search.cpan.org/~markusb/PDF-Create-1.00/
create PDF files
----
PLP-3.21
http://search.cpan.org/~shiar/PLP-3.21/
Perl in HTML pages
----
POD2-Base-0.044_1
http://search.cpan.org/~ferreira/POD2-Base-0.044_1/
Base module for translations of Perl documentation
----
POE-Filter-SAXBuilder-0.02_01
http://search.cpan.org/~martijn/POE-Filter-SAXBuilder-0.02_01/
A POE Filter for parsing XML with XML::LibXML
----
PerlIO-Util-0.30
http://search.cpan.org/~gfuji/PerlIO-Util-0.30/
A selection of general PerlIO utilities
----
PerlIO-via-dynamic-0.13
http://search.cpan.org/~clkao/PerlIO-via-dynamic-0.13/
dynamic PerlIO layers
----
Qmail-Deliverable-1.05
http://search.cpan.org/~juerd/Qmail-Deliverable-1.05/
Determine deliverability of local addresses
----
RDF-Redland-DIG-0.01
http://search.cpan.org/~drrho/RDF-Redland-DIG-0.01/
DIG extension for Redland RDF (Reasoner)
----
SVN-Mirror-0.74
http://search.cpan.org/~clkao/SVN-Mirror-0.74/
Mirror remote repository to local Subversion repository
----
Statistics-Gtest-0.07
http://search.cpan.org/~dcfleck/Statistics-Gtest-0.07/
calculate G-statistic for tabular data
----
mobirc-0.99_01
http://search.cpan.org/~tokuhirom/mobirc-0.99_01/
modern IRC to HTTP gateway
----
the-0.13
http://search.cpan.org/~ingy/the-0.13/
This is teh, best module evar!
If you're an author of one of these modules, please submit a detailed
announcement to comp.lang.perl.announce, and we'll pass it along.
This message was generated by a Perl program described in my Linux
Magazine column, which can be found on-line (along with more than
200 other freely available past column articles) at
http://www.stonehenge.com/merlyn/LinuxMag/col82.html
print "Just another Perl hacker," # the original
--
Randal L. Schwartz - Stonehenge Consulting Services, Inc. - +1 503 777 0095
<merlyn@stonehenge.com> <URL:http://www.stonehenge.com/merlyn/>
Smalltalk/Perl/Unix consulting, Technical writing, Comedy, etc. etc.
See http://methodsandmessages.vox.com/ for Smalltalk and Seaside discussion
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 31 May 2008 18:13:01 GMT
From: "A. Sinan Unur" <1usa@llenroc.ude.invalid>
Subject: Re: OT: Thank you for the link!
Message-Id: <Xns9AAF909F9B0CCasu1cornelledu@127.0.0.1>
Bill H <bill@ts1000.us> wrote in news:14dbdd1e-8ddc-4ad2-ad60-
1a9eb1dc85bd@y21g2000hsf.googlegroups.com:
> Not sure who posted the link www.thedailywtf.com in one of their
> messages, but thank you! A hilarious site that I have already killed
> about 16 hours reading!
Guilty as charged:
http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.perl.misc/msg/8e579f846efd530b
Sinan
--
A. Sinan Unur <1usa@llenroc.ude.invalid>
(remove .invalid and reverse each component for email address)
comp.lang.perl.misc guidelines on the WWW:
http://www.rehabitation.com/clpmisc/
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 31 May 2008 22:31:47 +0200
From: Martijn Lievaart <m@rtij.nl.invlalid>
Subject: Re: OT: Thank you for the link!
Message-Id: <pan.2008.05.31.20.31.47@rtij.nl.invlalid>
On Sat, 31 May 2008 09:58:42 -0700, Bill H wrote:
> Not sure who posted the link www.thedailywtf.com in one of their
> messages, but thank you! A hilarious site that I have already killed
> about 16 hours reading!
M2! More than 16 hours!
M4
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 31 May 2008 11:36:54 -0700
From: "szr" <szrRE@szromanMO.comVE>
Subject: Re: The Importance of Terminology's Quality
Message-Id: <g1s5s7019mo@news4.newsguy.com>
Jürgen Exner wrote:
> "szr" <szrRE@szromanMO.comVE> wrote:
>> I would rather have the OP comment about that, as he started the
>> thread.
>
> The OP is a very well-known troll who has the habit of spitting out a
> borderline OT article to a bunch of loosly related NGs ever so often
> and then sits back and enjoys the complaints and counter-complaints
> of the regulars.
While I agree cross-posting should be chosen more carefully, it seemed
like a harmless article to me. I did not get the impression he was just
trolling. There are people who like to post articles they come across
and maybe want to start a discussion on.
Like I said, this may have been better to put in a more general
programming group, and that yes, it is kind of OT for specific language
groups, but I really saw no harm in it (and I saw no one try to redirect
the discussion to a more general group), and you and anyone else are
free to ignore the thread. All I ask is you allow people to make up
their own minds.
--
szr
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 31 May 2008 20:30:45 -0400
From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Arne_Vajh=F8j?= <arne@vajhoej.dk>
Subject: Re: The Importance of Terminology's Quality
Message-Id: <4841edb4$0$90265$14726298@news.sunsite.dk>
szr wrote:
> Arne Vajhøj wrote:
>> Stephan Bour wrote:
>>> Lew wrote:
>>> } John Thingstad wrote:
>>> } > Perl is solidly based in the UNIX world on awk, sed, bash and C.
>>> } > I don't like the style, but many do.
>>> }
>>> } Please exclude the Java newsgroups from this discussion.
>>>
>>> Did it ever occur to you that you don't speak for entire news groups?
>> Did it occur to you that there are nothing about Java in the above ?
>
> Looking at the original post, it doesn't appear to be about any specific
> language.
That does not make it on topic in the Java group.
And the subthread Lew commented on most certainly is not.
Arne
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 31 May 2008 20:43:22 -0400
From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Arne_Vajh=F8j?= <arne@vajhoej.dk>
Subject: Re: The Importance of Terminology's Quality
Message-Id: <4841f0aa$0$90274$14726298@news.sunsite.dk>
szr wrote:
> Peter Duniho wrote:
>> On Fri, 30 May 2008 22:40:03 -0700, szr <szrRE@szromanMO.comVE> wrote:
>>> Arne Vajhøj wrote:
>>>> Stephan Bour wrote:
>>>>> Lew wrote:
>>>>> } John Thingstad wrote:
>>>>> } > Perl is solidly based in the UNIX world on awk, sed, } > bash
>>>>> and C. I don't like the style, but many do.
>>>>> }
>>>>> } Please exclude the Java newsgroups from this discussion.
>>>>>
>>>>> Did it ever occur to you that you don't speak for entire news
>>>>> groups?
>>>> Did it occur to you that there are nothing about Java in the above ?
>>> Looking at the original post, it doesn't appear to be about any
>>> specific language.
>> Indeed. That suggests it's probably off-topic in most, if not all,
>> of the newsgroups to which it was posted, inasmuch as they exist for
>> topics specific to a given programming language.
>
> Perhaps - comp.programming might of been a better place, but not all
> people who follow groups for specific languages follow a general group
> like that - but let me ask you something. What is it you really have
> against discussing topics with people of neighboring groups? Keep in
> mind you don't have to read anything you do not want to read. [1]
I very much doubt that the original thread is relevant for the Java
group.
But the subthread Lew commente don was about Perl and Unix. That is
clearly off topic.
Personally I am rather tolerant for topics. But I can not blame Lew
for requesting that a Perl-Unix discussion does not get cross posted
to a Java group.
>> Regardless, unless you are actually reading this thread from the
>> c.l.j.p newsgroup, I'm not sure I see the point in questioning
>> someone who _is_ about whether the thread belongs there or not.
>
> I would rather have the OP comment about that, as he started the thread.
> But what gets me is why you are against that specific group being
> included but not others? What is so special about the Java group and why
> are you so sure people there don't want to read this thread? [1] What
> right do you or I or anyone have to make decisions for everyone in a
> news group? Isn't this why most news readers allow one to block a
> thread?
I doubt Lew read any of the other groups, so it seems quite
natural that he did not comment on the on/off topic characteristics
in those.
>> And if it's a vote you want, mark me down as the third person reading
>> c.l.j.p that doesn't feel this thread belongs. I don't know whether
>> Lew speaks for the entire newsgroup, but based on comments so far,
>> it's pretty clear that there unanimous agreement among those who have
>> expressed an opinion.
>
> Ok, so, perhaps 3 people out of what might be several hundred, if not
> thousand (there is no way to really know, but there are certainly a lot
> of people who read that group, and as with any group, there are far more
> readers than there are people posting, so, again, just because you or
> two other people or so don't want to read a topic or dislike it, you
> feel you can decide for EVERYONE they mustn't read it? Again, this is
> why readers allow you to ignore threads. Please don't force your views
> on others; let them decide for themselves. [1]
And I am sure that Lew did not intended to pretend to speak for
the entire group. He spoke for himself.
I believe there has been several posts that agreed with him and none
that disagreed, so it seems very plausible that the group indeed agree
with him.
Arguing that a huge silent majority has a different opinion
than those speaking up is a very questionable argument. Everybody
could try and count them for their view. The only reasonable
thing is not to count them.
Arne
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 31 May 2008 23:27:35 -0700
From: "szr" <szrRE@szromanMO.comVE>
Subject: Re: The Importance of Terminology's Quality
Message-Id: <g1tfgn030l@news4.newsguy.com>
Arne Vajhøj wrote:
> szr wrote:
>> Peter Duniho wrote:
>>> On Fri, 30 May 2008 22:40:03 -0700, szr <szrRE@szromanMO.comVE>
>>> wrote:
>>>> Arne Vajhøj wrote:
>>>>> Stephan Bour wrote:
>>>>>> Lew wrote:
>>>>>> } John Thingstad wrote:
>>>>>> } > Perl is solidly based in the UNIX world on awk, sed, } > bash
>>>>>> and C. I don't like the style, but many do.
>>>>>> }
>>>>>> } Please exclude the Java newsgroups from this discussion.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Did it ever occur to you that you don't speak for entire news
>>>>>> groups?
>>>>> Did it occur to you that there are nothing about Java in the
>>>>> above ?
>>>> Looking at the original post, it doesn't appear to be about any
>>>> specific language.
>>> Indeed. That suggests it's probably off-topic in most, if not all,
>>> of the newsgroups to which it was posted, inasmuch as they exist for
>>> topics specific to a given programming language.
>>
>> Perhaps - comp.programming might of been a better place, but not all
>> people who follow groups for specific languages follow a general
>> group like that - but let me ask you something. What is it you
>> really have against discussing topics with people of neighboring
>> groups? Keep in mind you don't have to read anything you do not want
>> to read. [1]
>
> I very much doubt that the original thread is relevant for the Java
> group.
>
> But the subthread Lew commente don was about Perl and Unix. That is
> clearly off topic.
I agree with and understand what you are saying in general, but still,
isn't it possible that were are people in the java group (and others)
who might of been following the thread, only to discover (probably not
right away) that someone decided to remove the group they were reading
the thread from? I know I would not like that, even if it wasn't on
topic at the branch.
Personally, I find it very annoying to have to switch news groups in
order to resume a thread and weed my way down the thread to where it
left off before it was cut off from the previous group.
--
szr
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 31 May 2008 23:43:21 -0700
From: "Peter Duniho" <NpOeStPeAdM@nnowslpianmk.com>
Subject: Re: The Importance of Terminology's Quality
Message-Id: <op.ub14yju48jd0ej@petes-computer.local>
On Sat, 31 May 2008 23:27:35 -0700, szr <szrRE@szromanMO.comVE> wrote:
> [...]
>> But the subthread Lew commente don was about Perl and Unix. That is
>> clearly off topic.
>
> I agree with and understand what you are saying in general, but still,
> isn't it possible that were are people in the java group (and others)
> who might of been following the thread, only to discover (probably not
> right away) that someone decided to remove the group they were reading
> the thread from? I know I would not like that, even if it wasn't on
> topic at the branch.
All due respect, I don't really care if those people find the thread
gone. And no one should.
Each individual person has a wide variety of interests. A thread that is
off-topic in a newsgroup may in fact be concerning a topic of interest for
someone who just happened to be reading that newsgroup. The fact that
that person might have been interested in it isn't justification for
continuing the thread in that newsgroup. The most important question
isn't who might have been reading the thread, but rather whether the
thread is on-topic.
What if someone cross-posted a thread about motorcycle racing in the Perl
newsgroup as well as an actual motorcycle racing newsgroup? No doubt, at
least some people reading the Perl newsgroup have an interest in
motorcycle racing. They may in fact be racers themselves. Those people
may have found the thread about motorcycle racing interesting.
Does that justify the thread continuing to be cross-posted to the Perl
newsgroup? No, of course not.
So please. Quit trying to justify a thread being cross-posted to a
newsgroup that you aren't even reading just on the sole basis of the
remote possibility that someone in that newsgroup was interested in the
thread. It's not a legitimate justification, and even if it were, there's
been sufficient opportunity for someone here in the Java newsgroup to
speak up and say "hey, wait! I was reading that!"
But no one's said anything of the sort. Those people who don't exist have
no need for you to provide an irrelevant defense for them.
> Personally, I find it very annoying to have to switch news groups in
> order to resume a thread and weed my way down the thread to where it
> left off before it was cut off from the previous group.
If people use the newsgroups responsibly, that never happens.
A thread should never be cut-off midstream like that unless it was
inappropriately cross-posted in the first place, and if the thread was
inappropriately cross-posted in the first place, no one has any business
expecting to be able to continue reading it in any newsgroup where it's
off-topic.
If you're interested in discussions on Perl and Unix, go read a newsgroup
about Perl and/or Unix. Don't look for those discussions in the Java
newsgroup, and don't get comfy reading the thread in the Java newsgroup
should you happen across it. They don't belong, and they should be
terminated within the Java newsgroup ASAP. Go follow the thread where
it's on-topic.
Pete
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 1 Jun 2008 01:24:18 -0700
From: "szr" <szrRE@szromanMO.comVE>
Subject: Re: The Importance of Terminology's Quality
Message-Id: <g1tmbj095o@news4.newsguy.com>
Peter Duniho wrote:
> On Sat, 31 May 2008 23:27:35 -0700, szr <szrRE@szromanMO.comVE> wrote:
>
>> [...]
>>> But the subthread Lew commente don was about Perl and Unix. That is
>>> clearly off topic.
>>
>> I agree with and understand what you are saying in general, but
>> still, isn't it possible that were are people in the java group (and
>> others) who might of been following the thread, only to discover
>> (probably not right away) that someone decided to remove the group
>> they were reading the thread from? I know I would not like that,
>> even if it wasn't on topic at the branch.
>
> All due respect, I don't really care if those people find the thread
> gone. And no one should.
I prefer to be considerate of others.
> Each individual person has a wide variety of interests. A thread
> that is off-topic in a newsgroup may in fact be concerning a topic of
> interest for someone who just happened to be reading that newsgroup.
Well if a thread has absolutely no relation to a group, then yes,
cross-posting to said group is inappropiate, and setting follow ups may
well be warrented. But when there is some relation, sometimes it may be
better to mark it as [OT] i nthe subject line, a practice that is
sometimes seen, and seems to suffice.
> What if someone cross-posted a thread about motorcycle racing in the
> Perl newsgroup as well as an actual motorcycle racing newsgroup?
You are comparing apples and oranges now; sure, if you post about
motorcycles (to use your example) it would be wildly off topic, but the
thread in question was relating to programming (the naming of functions
and such) in general.
> Does that justify the thread continuing to be cross-posted to the Perl
> newsgroup? No, of course not.
but who decides this? And why does said individual get to decide for
everyone?
> So please. Quit trying to justify a thread being cross-posted to a
> newsgroup that you aren't even reading
You do not know what groups I read. And I am not attempting to justify
cross posting at all. Rather I am arguing against deciding for a whole
news group when a thread should be discontinued.
--
szr
------------------------------
Date: 6 Apr 2001 21:33:47 GMT (Last modified)
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Subject: Digest Administrivia (Last modified: 6 Apr 01)
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------------------------------
End of Perl-Users Digest V11 Issue 1599
***************************************
