[30338] in Perl-Users-Digest
Perl-Users Digest, Issue: 1581 Volume: 11
daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (Perl-Users Digest)
Tue May 27 03:09:48 2008
Date: Tue, 27 May 2008 00:09:09 -0700 (PDT)
From: Perl-Users Digest <Perl-Users-Request@ruby.OCE.ORST.EDU>
To: Perl-Users@ruby.OCE.ORST.EDU (Perl-Users Digest)
Perl-Users Digest Tue, 27 May 2008 Volume: 11 Number: 1581
Today's topics:
Re: blogs, longbets.org, and education of sociology <szrRE@szromanMO.comVE>
Re: Consolidating a list of networks in Perl <ben@morrow.me.uk>
Re: FAQ 4.65 How can I store a multidimensional array i <szrRE@szromanMO.comVE>
Re: IPC::Shareable. Does it work? <ben@morrow.me.uk>
new CPAN modules on Tue May 27 2008 (Randal Schwartz)
Parsing <KDawg44@gmail.com>
Re: Parsing <noreply@gunnar.cc>
Re: Parsing <Holleran.Kevin@gmail.com>
Re: Parsing <tadmc@seesig.invalid>
Re: Perldoc recommendation <jurgenex@hotmail.com>
Re: Perldoc recommendation <tadmc@seesig.invalid>
Re: Perldoc recommendation <szrRE@szromanMO.comVE>
Posting Guidelines for comp.lang.perl.misc ($Revision: tadmc@seesig.invalid
Re: reinstall perl <szrRE@szromanMO.comVE>
Re: Why reading the FAQs is good (example) <ben@morrow.me.uk>
Re: Why reading the FAQs is good (example) <tadmc@seesig.invalid>
Digest Administrivia (Last modified: 6 Apr 01) (Perl-Users-Digest Admin)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Mon, 26 May 2008 21:52:35 -0700
From: "szr" <szrRE@szromanMO.comVE>
Subject: Re: blogs, longbets.org, and education of sociology
Message-Id: <g1g42k02miu@news4.newsguy.com>
j.oke wrote:
> On 26 Mag, 01:25, "xah...@gmail.com" <xah...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> For about the past 10 years, ...
>
> Q: How many comp.lang.X trolls does it take to change a light bulb?
>
> A: One, and Superman. One to hold the bulb, and Superman to screw the
> planet.
Are you saying Superman is harming the planet? :-)
--
szr
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 27 May 2008 00:16:33 +0100
From: Ben Morrow <ben@morrow.me.uk>
Subject: Re: Consolidating a list of networks in Perl
Message-Id: <hvsrg5-2pt.ln1@osiris.mauzo.dyndns.org>
Quoth news@baldwin.users.panix.com:
>
> I have a couple of ideas about this, I think, but maybe someone has
> solved the problem cleverly already.
>
> Given a very big list of networks (they happen to be in first / last
> IP format, but I can convert easily enough to subnet/mask form, even
> if it's an approximation) ... I want to make a smaller list of
> networks that subsumes all the nets in the big list. e.g.,
>
> 10.28.45.0 - 10.28.46.255
> 10.28.42.0 - 10.28.42.255
> 10.28.47.0 - 10.28.49.255
> 10.28.43.0 - 10.28.44.255
>
> ... would be "consolidated" down into 10.28.42.0 - 10.28.49.255.
>
> Any ideas? Modules? Thoughts?
Net::CIDR::Lite will do exactly this.
Ben
--
For the last month, a large number of PSNs in the Arpa[Inter-]net have been
reporting symptoms of congestion ... These reports have been accompanied by an
increasing number of user complaints ... As of June,... the Arpanet contained
47 nodes and 63 links. [ftp://rtfm.mit.edu/pub/arpaprob.txt] * ben@morrow.me.uk
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 26 May 2008 21:35:35 -0700
From: "szr" <szrRE@szromanMO.comVE>
Subject: Re: FAQ 4.65 How can I store a multidimensional array in a DBM file?
Message-Id: <g1g32o02ln2@news4.newsguy.com>
PerlFAQ Server wrote:
[...]
> 4.65: How can I store a multidimensional array in a DBM file?
>
> Either stringify the structure yourself (no fun), or else get the
> MLDBM (which uses Data::Dumper) module from CPAN and layer it on
> top of either DB_File or GDBM_File.
It may be worth mentioning, that while Data::Dumper can work well,
sometimes it maybe be useful to use a module such as PHP::Serialization
if you are sharing data with a language (like PHP) that support that
type of serialization.
--
szr
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 27 May 2008 00:18:55 +0100
From: Ben Morrow <ben@morrow.me.uk>
Subject: Re: IPC::Shareable. Does it work?
Message-Id: <v3trg5-2pt.ln1@osiris.mauzo.dyndns.org>
Quoth Tim Smith <reply_in_group@mouse-potato.com>:
>
> When I download the IPC::Shareable tarball and expand it, then "perl
> Makefile.PL", "make", and "make test", the results are...odd.
>
> On my Ubuntu 8.04 system (Athlon 64, but I have the 32-bit version of
> Ubuntu installed), it passes all tests. I have done "make test" about
> 40 times, and every time, it passes all the tests.
>
> On my Ubuntu 6.06 system (P4), it hangs on test t/38ipchv.
Just a suggestion: is your system short of SysV IPC objects? There are
various kernel limits you can set; if you have things like Apache or
PostgreSQL running that eat a lot of IPC objects, you may be running
out.
Ben
--
Although few may originate a policy, we are all able to judge it.
Pericles of Athens, c.430 B.C.
ben@morrow.me.uk
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 27 May 2008 04:42:20 GMT
From: merlyn@stonehenge.com (Randal Schwartz)
Subject: new CPAN modules on Tue May 27 2008
Message-Id: <K1IFqK.21yx@zorch.sf-bay.org>
The following modules have recently been added to or updated in the
Comprehensive Perl Archive Network (CPAN). You can install them using the
instructions in the 'perlmodinstall' page included with your Perl
distribution.
AnyEvent-4.04
http://search.cpan.org/~mlehmann/AnyEvent-4.04/
----
AnyEvent-4.05
http://search.cpan.org/~mlehmann/AnyEvent-4.05/
----
Apache-Scoreboard-2.09.2
http://search.cpan.org/~mjh/Apache-Scoreboard-2.09.2/
Perl interface to the Apache scoreboard structure
----
Apache2-AuthenNTLM-Cookie-0.01
http://search.cpan.org/~dami/Apache2-AuthenNTLM-Cookie-0.01/
Store NTLM identity in a cookie
----
CGI-RSS-0.7.2
http://search.cpan.org/~jettero/CGI-RSS-0.7.2/
provides a CGI-like interface for making rss feeds
----
CPAN-CachingProxy-1.0.1
http://search.cpan.org/~jettero/CPAN-CachingProxy-1.0.1/
A very simple lightweight CGI based Caching Proxy
----
CPANPLUS-Dist-Gentoo-0.02_01
http://search.cpan.org/~vpit/CPANPLUS-Dist-Gentoo-0.02_01/
CPANPLUS backend generating Gentoo ebuilds.
----
Catalyst-Model-SVN-0.12
http://search.cpan.org/~bobtfish/Catalyst-Model-SVN-0.12/
Catalyst Model to browse Subversion repositories
----
Class-Mixin-1.00
http://search.cpan.org/~davidrw/Class-Mixin-1.00/
API for aliasing methods to/from other classes
----
Class-Std-Fast-v0.0.8
http://search.cpan.org/~acid/Class-Std-Fast-v0.0.8/
faster but less secure than Class::Std
----
Class-Std-Fast_XS-0.3
http://search.cpan.org/~mkutter/Class-Std-Fast_XS-0.3/
speed up Class::Std::Fast by adding some XS code
----
Config-Model-OpenSsh-0.104
http://search.cpan.org/~ddumont/Config-Model-OpenSsh-0.104/
OpenSsh configuration files editor
----
DBIx-Connection-0.05
http://search.cpan.org/~adrianwit/DBIx-Connection-0.05/
Simple database interface.
----
Devel-CoverX-Covered-0.011
http://search.cpan.org/~johanl/Devel-CoverX-Covered-0.011/
Collect and report caller (test file) and covered (source file) statistics from the cover_db
----
Devel-FindBlessedRefs-1.0.3
http://search.cpan.org/~jettero/Devel-FindBlessedRefs-1.0.3/
find all refs blessed under a package
----
Devel-PerlySense-0.0156
http://search.cpan.org/~johanl/Devel-PerlySense-0.0156/
Perl IDE backend with Emacs frontend
----
EV-3.42
http://search.cpan.org/~mlehmann/EV-3.42/
perl interface to libev, a high performance full-featured event loop
----
File-SortedSeek-0.013
http://search.cpan.org/~jfreeman/File-SortedSeek-0.013/
----
Games-EveOnline-API-0.02
http://search.cpan.org/~bluefeet/Games-EveOnline-API-0.02/
A simple Perl wrapper around the EveOnline XML API.
----
Games-RolePlay-MapGen-1.2.19
http://search.cpan.org/~jettero/Games-RolePlay-MapGen-1.2.19/
The base object for generating dungeons and maps
----
Ganglia-Gmetric-XS-0.02
http://search.cpan.org/~hirose/Ganglia-Gmetric-XS-0.02/
send a metric value to gmond with libganglia C library
----
HTTP-Server-Simple-Er-v0.0.3
http://search.cpan.org/~ewilhelm/HTTP-Server-Simple-Er-v0.0.3/
lightweight server and interface
----
InSilicoSpectro-Databanks-0.0.38
http://search.cpan.org/~alexmass/InSilicoSpectro-Databanks-0.0.38/
parsing protein/nucleotides sequence databanks (fasta, uniprot...)
----
InSilicoSpectro-Databanks-0.0.39
http://search.cpan.org/~alexmass/InSilicoSpectro-Databanks-0.0.39/
parsing protein/nucleotides sequence databanks (fasta, uniprot...)
----
Language-Lisp-ECLs-0.23
http://search.cpan.org/~vkon/Language-Lisp-ECLs-0.23/
Perl extension for ECL lisp
----
Log-Fine-0.11
http://search.cpan.org/~cfuhrman/Log-Fine-0.11/
Yet another logging framework
----
MySQL-Easy-2.0.2
http://search.cpan.org/~jettero/MySQL-Easy-2.0.2/
Perl extension to handle various mundane DBI session related things specific to mysql.
----
Net-DNS-ZoneFile-Fast-1.0
http://search.cpan.org/~hardaker/Net-DNS-ZoneFile-Fast-1.0/
parse BIND8/9 zone files
----
Net-FriendFeed-0.82
http://search.cpan.org/~kappa/Net-FriendFeed-0.82/
Perl interface to FriendFeed.com API
----
Net-Printer-1.05
http://search.cpan.org/~cfuhrman/Net-Printer-1.05/
Perl extension for direct-to-lpd printing.
----
Net-SMTP-OneLiner-1.3.1
http://search.cpan.org/~jettero/Net-SMTP-OneLiner-1.3.1/
extension that polutes the local namespace with a send_mail() function.
----
OpenResty-0.3.1
http://search.cpan.org/~agent/OpenResty-0.3.1/
General-purpose web service platform for web applications
----
POSIX-Regex-0.90.9
http://search.cpan.org/~jettero/POSIX-Regex-0.90.9/
OO interface for the gnu regex engine
----
Params-Util-0.33
http://search.cpan.org/~adamk/Params-Util-0.33/
Simple, compact and correct param-checking functions
----
Perl-Critic-Bangs-1.00
http://search.cpan.org/~petdance/Perl-Critic-Bangs-1.00/
A collection of handy Perl::Critic policies
----
Perl-Critic-More-1.000
http://search.cpan.org/~elliotjs/Perl-Critic-More-1.000/
Supplemental policies for Perl::Critic
----
Pg-Pcurse-0.17
http://search.cpan.org/~ioannis/Pg-Pcurse-0.17/
Monitors a Postgres cluster
----
Regexp-Common-2.122
http://search.cpan.org/~abigail/Regexp-Common-2.122/
Provide commonly requested regular expressions
----
TaskForest-1.10
http://search.cpan.org/~enoor/TaskForest-1.10/
Simple, powerful task scheduler
----
TemplateM-2.23
http://search.cpan.org/~abalama/TemplateM-2.23/
*ML templates processing module
----
Term-GentooFunctions-1.2.1
http://search.cpan.org/~jettero/Term-GentooFunctions-1.2.1/
provides gentoo's einfo, ewarn, eerror, ebegin and eend.
----
Time-Normalize-0.07
http://search.cpan.org/~roode/Time-Normalize-0.07/
Convert time and date values into standardized components.
----
Unix-Process-1.2.1
http://search.cpan.org/~jettero/Unix-Process-1.2.1/
Perl extension to get pid info from (/bin/ps).
----
Weather-YR-0.21
http://search.cpan.org/~hovenko/Weather-YR-0.21/
Perl extension for talking to yr.no
----
autobox-Core-0.6
http://search.cpan.org/~swalters/autobox-Core-0.6/
Methods for core built-in functions in primitive types
----
mylib-1.01
http://search.cpan.org/~gaas/mylib-1.01/
add private lib to the module search path
If you're an author of one of these modules, please submit a detailed
announcement to comp.lang.perl.announce, and we'll pass it along.
This message was generated by a Perl program described in my Linux
Magazine column, which can be found on-line (along with more than
200 other freely available past column articles) at
http://www.stonehenge.com/merlyn/LinuxMag/col82.html
print "Just another Perl hacker," # the original
--
Randal L. Schwartz - Stonehenge Consulting Services, Inc. - +1 503 777 0095
<merlyn@stonehenge.com> <URL:http://www.stonehenge.com/merlyn/>
Smalltalk/Perl/Unix consulting, Technical writing, Comedy, etc. etc.
See http://methodsandmessages.vox.com/ for Smalltalk and Seaside discussion
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 26 May 2008 17:31:55 -0700 (PDT)
From: KDawg44 <KDawg44@gmail.com>
Subject: Parsing
Message-Id: <321afe77-1b67-4fe6-b1fb-e7fd5df30633@e39g2000hsf.googlegroups.com>
I am writing a top-down parser in Perl for a simple grammar. I would
like to split on a change in a character set. Is there a way to split
the tokens based on a change of a character set (like changing from a /
\w+/ to /+/ or something like that.
Basically I want to be able to split var = var1 + var 2; into tokens
(var, =, var1, +, var2, ;). I could do this with split / / but I
would also like var=var1+var2; to split into the same tokens.
How can I parse these two and get the same thing?
Thanks.
Kevin
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 27 May 2008 03:32:56 +0200
From: Gunnar Hjalmarsson <noreply@gunnar.cc>
Subject: Re: Parsing
Message-Id: <6a16imF35jdvbU1@mid.individual.net>
KDawg44 wrote:
> I am writing a top-down parser in Perl for a simple grammar. I would
> like to split on a change in a character set. Is there a way to split
> the tokens based on a change of a character set (like changing from a /
> \w+/ to /+/ or something like that.
>
> Basically I want to be able to split var = var1 + var 2; into tokens
> (var, =, var1, +, var2, ;). I could do this with split / / but I
> would also like var=var1+var2; to split into the same tokens.
>
> How can I parse these two and get the same thing?
my @tokens = split /\s*([-+=;])\s*/, $string;
--
Gunnar Hjalmarsson
Email: http://www.gunnar.cc/cgi-bin/contact.pl
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 26 May 2008 19:25:35 -0700 (PDT)
From: "K.J. 44" <Holleran.Kevin@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Parsing
Message-Id: <5a133b8a-2d26-4286-84b2-d5fd7ffd6cfe@c58g2000hsc.googlegroups.com>
On May 26, 9:32=A0pm, Gunnar Hjalmarsson <nore...@gunnar.cc> wrote:
> KDawg44 wrote:
> > I am writing a top-down parser in Perl for a simple grammar. =A0I would
> > like to split on a change in a character set. =A0Is there a way to split=
> > the tokens based on a change of a character set (like changing from a /
> > \w+/ to /+/ or something like that.
>
> > Basically I want to be able to split var =3D var1 + var 2; into tokens
> > (var, =3D, var1, +, var2, ;). =A0I could do this with split / / but I
> > would also like var=3Dvar1+var2; to split into the same tokens.
>
> > How can I parse these two and get the same thing?
>
> =A0 =A0 =A0my @tokens =3D split /\s*([-+=3D;])\s*/, $string;
>
> --
> Gunnar Hjalmarsson
> Email:http://www.gunnar.cc/cgi-bin/contact.pl
Thanks very much! That got me going in the right direction.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 26 May 2008 22:53:32 -0500
From: Tad J McClellan <tadmc@seesig.invalid>
Subject: Re: Parsing
Message-Id: <slrng3n1ds.a7c.tadmc@tadmc30.sbcglobal.net>
Gunnar Hjalmarsson <noreply@gunnar.cc> wrote:
> KDawg44 wrote:
>> I am writing a top-down parser in Perl for a simple grammar. I would
>> like to split on a change in a character set. Is there a way to split
>> the tokens based on a change of a character set (like changing from a /
>> \w+/ to /+/ or something like that.
>>
>> Basically I want to be able to split var = var1 + var 2; into tokens
>> (var, =, var1, +, var2, ;). I could do this with split / / but I
>> would also like var=var1+var2; to split into the same tokens.
>>
>> How can I parse these two and get the same thing?
>
> my @tokens = split /\s*([-+=;])\s*/, $string;
or
my @tokens = split /\s+|\b/, $string;
--
Tad McClellan
email: perl -le "print scalar reverse qq/moc.noitatibaher\100cmdat/"
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 26 May 2008 22:47:18 GMT
From: Jürgen Exner <jurgenex@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Perldoc recommendation
Message-Id: <b3em3493oqdc765a223qvce7fi9em5r6vq@4ax.com>
Marc Bissonnette <dragnet\_@_/internalysis.com> wrote:
>Sadly, my machine here is Windows Vista (Yes, I know - boneheaded) with my
>work being done on remote machines. While perl is installed locally,
>Microsoft decided brilliantly (!!!) to make the DOS box only open in a
>narrow window - For someone who's eyesight isn't what it used to be, this
>doesn't make for great long content reading :(
May Vista be good or bad, it always amuses me how people love to
participate in Microsoft bashing using arguments that tell more about
their (lack of) intelligence than about the Microsoft product in
question:
1: the maximum size of a CMD Window on Vista is limited by the number of
rows and columns selected. This is exactly the same as on XP.
2: the number of lines and columns can be configured as the user likes.
See Properties -> Window Size. This is exactly the same as on XP.
3: the default number of lines and columns can be configured as the user
likes. See Defaults -> Layout. This is exactly the same as on XP.
4: the font size can be set up to 72pixel even without accessibility,
see Properties -> Font or Defaults -> Font. This is exactly the same as
on XP.
Maybe if you don't know how to use your tools you could ask about how to
use your tools rather then complaining about Sthil because it is so hard
to use their chain saws when you never even knew how to turn on the
engine in the first place.
jue
>
>The website, OTOH, allows me to use Opera's "Magnify - 200%" :) :) :)
>
>Thanks!
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 26 May 2008 20:48:22 -0500
From: Tad J McClellan <tadmc@seesig.invalid>
Subject: Re: Perldoc recommendation
Message-Id: <slrng3mq36.86l.tadmc@tadmc30.sbcglobal.net>
Bill H <bill@ts1000.us> wrote:
> Many times I have seen posted on here to consult perldoc for
> information, and there is a wealth of information in there.
>
> But if I could offer a suggestion, if the perldocs are online list
> that url also.
That would be a bad idea.
It would expose you to version errors.
You should consult the documentation that matches your perl version
(like what perldoc serves up).
> Personally I do not surf the internet or read newsgroups on my
> development computers, I use a different machine in my living room for
> that (the one I am on) and I do not have perl installed on it.
Install perl on it then. It is cheap and easy.
Or, just unpack a perl distro and keep only the pod/ directory.
--
Tad McClellan
email: perl -le "print scalar reverse qq/moc.noitatibaher\100cmdat/"
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 26 May 2008 21:47:31 -0700
From: "szr" <szrRE@szromanMO.comVE>
Subject: Re: Perldoc recommendation
Message-Id: <g1g3p402mbd@news4.newsguy.com>
Jürgen Exner wrote:
> Marc Bissonnette <dragnet\_@_/internalysis.com> wrote:
>> Sadly, my machine here is Windows Vista (Yes, I know - boneheaded)
>> with my work being done on remote machines. While perl is installed
>> locally, Microsoft decided brilliantly (!!!) to make the DOS box
>> only open in a narrow window - For someone who's eyesight isn't what
>> it used to be, this doesn't make for great long content reading :(
>
> May Vista be good or bad, it always amuses me how people love to
> participate in Microsoft bashing using arguments that tell more about
> their (lack of) intelligence than about the Microsoft product in
> question:
IMHO, it's the Microsoft product, Windows Vista, that insults many a
people's intelligence. It is an utterly broken OS in many ways, aimed at
controlling what and how you do certain things on your own system, which
to me is just unacceptable.
--
szr
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 27 May 2008 06:11:15 GMT
From: tadmc@seesig.invalid
Subject: Posting Guidelines for comp.lang.perl.misc ($Revision: 1.8 $)
Message-Id: <7CN_j.1889$uE5.1588@flpi144.ffdc.sbc.com>
Outline
Before posting to comp.lang.perl.misc
Must
- Check the Perl Frequently Asked Questions (FAQ)
- Check the other standard Perl docs (*.pod)
Really Really Should
- Lurk for a while before posting
- Search a Usenet archive
If You Like
- Check Other Resources
Posting to comp.lang.perl.misc
Is there a better place to ask your question?
- Question should be about Perl, not about the application area
How to participate (post) in the clpmisc community
- Carefully choose the contents of your Subject header
- Use an effective followup style
- Speak Perl rather than English, when possible
- Ask perl to help you
- Do not re-type Perl code
- Provide enough information
- Do not provide too much information
- Do not post binaries, HTML, or MIME
Social faux pas to avoid
- Asking a Frequently Asked Question
- Asking a question easily answered by a cursory doc search
- Asking for emailed answers
- Beware of saying "doesn't work"
- Sending a "stealth" Cc copy
Be extra cautious when you get upset
- Count to ten before composing a followup when you are upset
- Count to ten after composing and before posting when you are upset
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Posting Guidelines for comp.lang.perl.misc ($Revision: 1.8 $)
This newsgroup, commonly called clpmisc, is a technical newsgroup
intended to be used for discussion of Perl related issues (except job
postings), whether it be comments or questions.
As you would expect, clpmisc discussions are usually very technical in
nature and there are conventions for conduct in technical newsgroups
going somewhat beyond those in non-technical newsgroups.
The article at:
http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html
describes how to get answers from technical people in general.
This article describes things that you should, and should not, do to
increase your chances of getting an answer to your Perl question. It is
available in POD, HTML and plain text formats at:
http://www.rehabitation.com/clpmisc.shtml
For more information about netiquette in general, see the "Netiquette
Guidelines" at:
http://andrew2.andrew.cmu.edu/rfc/rfc1855.html
A note to newsgroup "regulars":
Do not use these guidelines as a "license to flame" or other
meanness. It is possible that a poster is unaware of things
discussed here. Give them the benefit of the doubt, and just
help them learn how to post, rather than assume that they do
know and are being the "bad kind" of Lazy.
A note about technical terms used here:
In this document, we use words like "must" and "should" as
they're used in technical conversation (such as you will
encounter in this newsgroup). When we say that you *must* do
something, we mean that if you don't do that something, then
it's unlikely that you will benefit much from this group.
We're not bossing you around; we're making the point without
lots of words.
Do *NOT* send email to the maintainer of these guidelines. It will be
discarded unread. The guidelines belong to the newsgroup so all
discussion should appear in the newsgroup. I am just the secretary that
writes down the consensus of the group.
Before posting to comp.lang.perl.misc
Must
This section describes things that you *must* do before posting to
clpmisc, in order to maximize your chances of getting meaningful replies
to your inquiry and to avoid getting flamed for being lazy and trying to
have others do your work.
The perl distribution includes documentation that is copied to your hard
drive when you install perl. Also installed is a program for looking
things up in that (and other) documentation named 'perldoc'.
You should either find out where the docs got installed on your system,
or use perldoc to find them for you. Type "perldoc perldoc" to learn how
to use perldoc itself. Type "perldoc perl" to start reading Perl's
standard documentation.
Check the Perl Frequently Asked Questions (FAQ)
Checking the FAQ before posting is required in Big 8 newsgroups in
general, there is nothing clpmisc-specific about this requirement.
You are expected to do this in nearly all newsgroups.
You can use the "-q" switch with perldoc to do a word search of the
questions in the Perl FAQs.
Check the other standard Perl docs (*.pod)
The perl distribution comes with much more documentation than is
available for most other newsgroups, so in clpmisc you should also
see if you can find an answer in the other (non-FAQ) standard docs
before posting.
It is *not* required, or even expected, that you actually *read* all of
Perl's standard docs, only that you spend a few minutes searching them
before posting.
Try doing a word-search in the standard docs for some words/phrases
taken from your problem statement or from your very carefully worded
"Subject:" header.
Really Really Should
This section describes things that you *really should* do before posting
to clpmisc.
Lurk for a while before posting
This is very important and expected in all newsgroups. Lurking means
to monitor a newsgroup for a period to become familiar with local
customs. Each newsgroup has specific customs and rituals. Knowing
these before you participate will help avoid embarrassing social
situations. Consider yourself to be a foreigner at first!
Search a Usenet archive
There are tens of thousands of Perl programmers. It is very likely
that your question has already been asked (and answered). See if you
can find where it has already been answered.
One such searchable archive is:
http://groups.google.com/advanced_group_search
If You Like
This section describes things that you *can* do before posting to
clpmisc.
Check Other Resources
You may want to check in books or on web sites to see if you can
find the answer to your question.
But you need to consider the source of such information: there are a
lot of very poor Perl books and web sites, and several good ones
too, of course.
Posting to comp.lang.perl.misc
There can be 200 messages in clpmisc in a single day. Nobody is going to
read every article. They must decide somehow which articles they are
going to read, and which they will skip.
Your post is in competition with 199 other posts. You need to "win"
before a person who can help you will even read your question.
These sections describe how you can help keep your article from being
one of the "skipped" ones.
Is there a better place to ask your question?
Question should be about Perl, not about the application area
It can be difficult to separate out where your problem really is,
but you should make a conscious effort to post to the most
applicable newsgroup. That is, after all, where you are the most
likely to find the people who know how to answer your question.
Being able to "partition" a problem is an essential skill for
effectively troubleshooting programming problems. If you don't get
that right, you end up looking for answers in the wrong places.
It should be understood that you may not know that the root of your
problem is not Perl-related (the two most frequent ones are CGI and
Operating System related), so off-topic postings will happen from
time to time. Be gracious when someone helps you find a better place
to ask your question by pointing you to a more applicable newsgroup.
How to participate (post) in the clpmisc community
Carefully choose the contents of your Subject header
You have 40 precious characters of Subject to win out and be one of
the posts that gets read. Don't waste them. Take care while
composing them, they are the key that opens the door to getting an
answer.
Spend them indicating what aspect of Perl others will find if they
should decide to read your article.
Do not spend them indicating "experience level" (guru, newbie...).
Do not spend them pleading (please read, urgent, help!...).
Do not spend them on non-Subjects (Perl question, one-word
Subject...)
For more information on choosing a Subject see "Choosing Good
Subject Lines":
http://www.cpan.org/authors/id/D/DM/DMR/subjects.post
Part of the beauty of newsgroup dynamics, is that you can contribute
to the community with your very first post! If your choice of
Subject leads a fellow Perler to find the thread you are starting,
then even asking a question helps us all.
Use an effective followup style
When composing a followup, quote only enough text to establish the
context for the comments that you will add. Always indicate who
wrote the quoted material. Never quote an entire article. Never
quote a .signature (unless that is what you are commenting on).
Intersperse your comments *following* each section of quoted text to
which they relate. Unappreciated followup styles are referred to as
"top-posting", "Jeopardy" (because the answer comes before the
question), or "TOFU" (Text Over, Fullquote Under).
Reversing the chronology of the dialog makes it much harder to
understand (some folks won't even read it if written in that style).
For more information on quoting style, see:
http://web.presby.edu/~nnqadmin/nnq/nquote.html
Speak Perl rather than English, when possible
Perl is much more precise than natural language. Saying it in Perl
instead will avoid misunderstanding your question or problem.
Do not say: I have variable with "foo\tbar" in it.
Instead say: I have $var = "foo\tbar", or I have $var = 'foo\tbar',
or I have $var = <DATA> (and show the data line).
Ask perl to help you
You can ask perl itself to help you find common programming mistakes
by doing two things: enable warnings (perldoc warnings) and enable
"strict"ures (perldoc strict).
You should not bother the hundreds/thousands of readers of the
newsgroup without first seeing if a machine can help you find your
problem. It is demeaning to be asked to do the work of a machine. It
will annoy the readers of your article.
You can look up any of the messages that perl might issue to find
out what the message means and how to resolve the potential mistake
(perldoc perldiag). If you would like perl to look them up for you,
you can put "use diagnostics;" near the top of your program.
Do not re-type Perl code
Use copy/paste or your editor's "import" function rather than
attempting to type in your code. If you make a typo you will get
followups about your typos instead of about the question you are
trying to get answered.
Provide enough information
If you do the things in this item, you will have an Extremely Good
chance of getting people to try and help you with your problem!
These features are a really big bonus toward your question winning
out over all of the other posts that you are competing with.
First make a short (less than 20-30 lines) and *complete* program
that illustrates the problem you are having. People should be able
to run your program by copy/pasting the code from your article. (You
will find that doing this step very often reveals your problem
directly. Leading to an answer much more quickly and reliably than
posting to Usenet.)
Describe *precisely* the input to your program. Also provide example
input data for your program. If you need to show file input, use the
__DATA__ token (perldata.pod) to provide the file contents inside of
your Perl program.
Show the output (including the verbatim text of any messages) of
your program.
Describe how you want the output to be different from what you are
getting.
If you have no idea at all of how to code up your situation, be sure
to at least describe the 2 things that you *do* know: input and
desired output.
Do not provide too much information
Do not just post your entire program for debugging. Most especially
do not post someone *else's* entire program.
Do not post binaries, HTML, or MIME
clpmisc is a text only newsgroup. If you have images or binaries
that explain your question, put them in a publically accessible
place (like a Web server) and provide a pointer to that location. If
you include code, cut and paste it directly in the message body.
Don't attach anything to the message. Don't post vcards or HTML.
Many people (and even some Usenet servers) will automatically filter
out such messages. Many people will not be able to easily read your
post. Plain text is something everyone can read.
Social faux pas to avoid
The first two below are symptoms of lots of FAQ asking here in clpmisc.
It happens so often that folks will assume that it is happening yet
again. If you have looked but not found, or found but didn't understand
the docs, say so in your article.
Asking a Frequently Asked Question
It should be understood that you may have missed the applicable FAQ
when you checked, which is not a big deal. But if the Frequently
Asked Question is worded similar to your question, folks will assume
that you did not look at all. Don't become indignant at pointers to
the FAQ, particularly if it solves your problem.
Asking a question easily answered by a cursory doc search
If folks think you have not even tried the obvious step of reading
the docs applicable to your problem, they are likely to become
annoyed.
If you are flamed for not checking when you *did* check, then just
shrug it off (and take the answer that you got).
Asking for emailed answers
Emailed answers benefit one person. Posted answers benefit the
entire community. If folks can take the time to answer your
question, then you can take the time to go get the answer in the
same place where you asked the question.
It is OK to ask for a *copy* of the answer to be emailed, but many
will ignore such requests anyway. If you munge your address, you
should never expect (or ask) to get email in response to a Usenet
post.
Ask the question here, get the answer here (maybe).
Beware of saying "doesn't work"
This is a "red flag" phrase. If you find yourself writing that,
pause and see if you can't describe what is not working without
saying "doesn't work". That is, describe how it is not what you
want.
Sending a "stealth" Cc copy
A "stealth Cc" is when you both email and post a reply without
indicating *in the body* that you are doing so.
Be extra cautious when you get upset
Count to ten before composing a followup when you are upset
This is recommended in all Usenet newsgroups. Here in clpmisc, most
flaming sub-threads are not about any feature of Perl at all! They
are most often for what was seen as a breach of netiquette. If you
have lurked for a bit, then you will know what is expected and won't
make such posts in the first place.
But if you get upset, wait a while before writing your followup. I
recommend waiting at least 30 minutes.
Count to ten after composing and before posting when you are upset
After you have written your followup, wait *another* 30 minutes
before committing yourself by posting it. You cannot take it back
once it has been said.
AUTHOR
Tad McClellan and many others on the comp.lang.perl.misc newsgroup.
--
Tad McClellan
email: perl -le "print scalar reverse qq/moc.noitatibaher\100cmdat/"
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 26 May 2008 21:25:06 -0700
From: "szr" <szrRE@szromanMO.comVE>
Subject: Re: reinstall perl
Message-Id: <g1g2f302l6m@news4.newsguy.com>
Gunnar Hjalmarsson wrote:
> szr wrote:
>> Keenlearner wrote:
>>> On May 26, 8:16 pm, Gunnar Hjalmarsson <nore...@gunnar.cc> wrote:
>>>> Do not
>>>> multi-post!http://www.nntp.perl.org/group/perl.beginners/2008/05/msg100925.html
>>>
>>> Ops, sorry, I thought that was different mailing list.
>>
>> Actually it _is_ a different list. This news group and the
>> nntp.perl.org server are separate, so calling it multi-posting is
>> not really correct (that implies posting to multiple groups on the
>> same server.) I don't see why one cannot post in both areas, as it
>> can increase the possible results (since they are completely
>> separate.)
>
> Because doing so is ruthless.
I agree when it's on the same service or network, but when it's two
complete separate domains it would seem perfectly reasonable, as long as
the poster takes care to pass on accepted answers to the other thread.
This would be sort of like cross-posting, in an indirect way.
> To me, the fact that they are on separate servers is irrelevant. IMO,
> you abuse the community just as much by posting to both
> simultaneously, whether the correct term is multi-posting or
> something else.
Again, I disagree that it's just plain wrong to post in multiple venues.
As long as the person posting informs the other venues of solutions that
they got or derived from another, it shouldn't be a problem.
--
szr
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 26 May 2008 23:46:56 +0100
From: Ben Morrow <ben@morrow.me.uk>
Subject: Re: Why reading the FAQs is good (example)
Message-Id: <08rrg5-52r.ln1@osiris.mauzo.dyndns.org>
Quoth Marc Bissonnette <dragnet\_@_/internalysis.com>:
>
> Maybe a silly question, but would that mean that if there are only two
> conditions (true|false), use unless and if there are more than two, use
> if/elsif as better code ?
I would never use else or elsif with unless: the double negatives are
just too confusing. I would rewrite
unless (X) { foo; }
else { bar; }
as
if (X) { bar; }
else { foo; }
and if there were more branches I would use
if (not X) { foo; }
elsif (Y) { bar; }
else { baz; }
rather than
unless (X) { foo; }
elsif (Y) { bar; }
else { baz; }
Note that there is no 'elsunless' :).
Ben
--
Musica Dei donum optimi, trahit homines, trahit deos. |
Musica truces mollit animos, tristesque mentes erigit. | ben@morrow.me.uk
Musica vel ipsas arbores et horridas movet feras. |
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 26 May 2008 20:42:08 -0500
From: Tad J McClellan <tadmc@seesig.invalid>
Subject: Re: Why reading the FAQs is good (example)
Message-Id: <slrng3mpng.86l.tadmc@tadmc30.sbcglobal.net>
Marc Bissonnette <dragnet> wrote:
> Tad J McClellan <tadmc@seesig.invalid> fell face-first on the keyboard.
> This was the result: news:slrng3lpcs.38a.tadmc@tadmc30.sbcglobal.net:
>
>> Marc Bissonnette <dragnet> wrote:
>>> if ($in{hours} !~ /^-?\d+\.?\d*$/) {
>>
>> I'd prefer to write that as:
>>
>> unless ($in{hours} =~ /^-?\d+\.?\d*$/) {
>>
>> as that puts the "not" out where it is harder to miss...
>
> Maybe a silly question, but would that mean that if there are only two
> conditions (true|false), use unless and if there are more than two, use
> if/elsif as better code ?
No, I wouldn't say that.
I'd say if there is a single _clause_ you can choose between
saying "if not" or "unless".
If there are two clauses, use an if-else (I never use an unless-else).
--
Tad McClellan
email: perl -le "print scalar reverse qq/moc.noitatibaher\100cmdat/"
------------------------------
Date: 6 Apr 2001 21:33:47 GMT (Last modified)
From: Perl-Users-Request@ruby.oce.orst.edu (Perl-Users-Digest Admin)
Subject: Digest Administrivia (Last modified: 6 Apr 01)
Message-Id: <null>
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------------------------------
End of Perl-Users Digest V11 Issue 1581
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