[30302] in Perl-Users-Digest
Perl-Users Digest, Issue: 1545 Volume: 11
daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (Perl-Users Digest)
Thu May 15 18:10:04 2008
Date: Thu, 15 May 2008 15:09:25 -0700 (PDT)
From: Perl-Users Digest <Perl-Users-Request@ruby.OCE.ORST.EDU>
To: Perl-Users@ruby.OCE.ORST.EDU (Perl-Users Digest)
Perl-Users Digest Thu, 15 May 2008 Volume: 11 Number: 1545
Today's topics:
Re: arrow key bindings in perl debugger mode <andrew.c.stewart@gmail.com>
Re: arrow key bindings in perl debugger mode <andrew.c.stewart@gmail.com>
Re: arrow key bindings in perl debugger mode (Jens Thoms Toerring)
Re: arrow key bindings in perl debugger mode (Jens Thoms Toerring)
Re: generate all possible math expr of one term <jon@ffconsultancy.com>
Re: help with auth dbi <glex_no-spam@qwest-spam-no.invalid>
Re: help with auth dbi <kkeller-usenet@wombat.san-francisco.ca.us>
Need ideas on how to make this code faster than a speed chadda@lonemerchant.com
Re: Need ideas on how to make this code faster than a s chadda@lonemerchant.com
Re: Need ideas on how to make this code faster than a s chadda@lonemerchant.com
Re: Need ideas on how to make this code faster than a s <uri@stemsystems.com>
Re: Need ideas on how to make this code faster than a s <uri@stemsystems.com>
Re: Need ideas on how to make this code faster than a s <uri@stemsystems.com>
Re: Newsgroup Markup. Was Re: Perl DBI Module: SQL quer <hjp-usenet2@hjp.at>
Re: Perl 6 <get@INVALIDbentsys.com>
Re: Perl 6 <1usa@llenroc.ude.invalid>
Re: Perl DBI Module: SQL query where there is space in <hjp-usenet2@hjp.at>
Re: Perl DBI Module: SQL query where there is space in <hjp-usenet2@hjp.at>
Digest Administrivia (Last modified: 6 Apr 01) (Perl-Users-Digest Admin)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Thu, 15 May 2008 08:58:48 -0700 (PDT)
From: andrew <andrew.c.stewart@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: arrow key bindings in perl debugger mode
Message-Id: <2b595ee8-00a1-4b7d-b6db-6d341a407517@a23g2000hsc.googlegroups.com>
My sincerest thanks :)
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 15 May 2008 09:50:49 -0700 (PDT)
From: andrew <andrew.c.stewart@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: arrow key bindings in perl debugger mode
Message-Id: <4e890f00-6bf5-476b-bf39-6b6b3fa4672c@x41g2000hsb.googlegroups.com>
Hmm, these two modules are installed, but it's not exactly clear to me
how to use them to customize key bindings.
------------------------------
Date: 15 May 2008 18:11:27 GMT
From: jt@toerring.de (Jens Thoms Toerring)
Subject: Re: arrow key bindings in perl debugger mode
Message-Id: <693cmfF2vlp0bU1@mid.uni-berlin.de>
andrew <andrew.c.stewart@gmail.com> wrote:
> Hmm, these two modules are installed, but it's not exactly clear to me
> how to use them to customize key bindings.
Since readline is used you can customize keybindings by creating
a .inputrc file in your home directory (or set up the INPUTRC
environment variable to the name of the init file for readline)
and putting the keybindings in there. Per default more-or-less
emacs keybindings are used. In that file you can change them.
It's admittedly not trivial (unless you're an emacs expert)
but see e.g.
http://tiswww.case.edu/php/chet/readline/rluserman.html#SEC9
Regards, Jens
--
\ Jens Thoms Toerring ___ jt@toerring.de
\__________________________ http://toerring.de
------------------------------
Date: 15 May 2008 20:25:38 GMT
From: jt@toerring.de (Jens Thoms Toerring)
Subject: Re: arrow key bindings in perl debugger mode
Message-Id: <693ki2F30jrl8U1@mid.uni-berlin.de>
Jens Thoms Toerring <jt@toerring.de> wrote:
> andrew <andrew.c.stewart@gmail.com> wrote:
> > Hmm, these two modules are installed, but it's not exactly clear to me
> > how to use them to customize key bindings.
> Since readline is used you can customize keybindings by creating
> a .inputrc file in your home directory (or set up the INPUTRC
> environment variable to the name of the init file for readline)
> and putting the keybindings in there. Per default more-or-less
> emacs keybindings are used. In that file you can change them.
> It's admittedly not trivial (unless you're an emacs expert)
> but see e.g.
> http://tiswww.case.edu/php/chet/readline/rluserman.html#SEC9
You should be aware that using .inputrc in your home directory
also sets the keybindings also for all other programs that use
the readline library (e.g. xterm). The simplest way around that
is probably to create an alias like (bash style)
alis pd='INPUTRC=~/.perldinputrc perl -d'
so that the INPUTRC variable gets only set to the file with
eybindings for the debugger, named here .perldinputrc in
your home directory, when you start perl in debug mode with
the new "command" 'pd'.
Regards, Jens
--
\ Jens Thoms Toerring ___ jt@toerring.de
\__________________________ http://toerring.de
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 15 May 2008 18:00:35 +0100
From: Jon Harrop <jon@ffconsultancy.com>
Subject: Re: generate all possible math expr of one term
Message-Id: <yOqdnWePY_XV8LHVRVnygQA@posted.plusnet>
xahlee@gmail.com wrote:
> Here's a example of Expressiveness of a Language.
>
> The following is Mathematica code that generates all possible
> equations of one term involving trig function. (tweak the funList and
> nesting level to define what ?all possible? means. if nesting level is
> 2, it takes about 20 minutes and returns a list of 2876 terms on a
> 2004 personal computer.
>
> << DiscreteMath`Combinatorica`
> funList = {Sin, Tan, Power[#, -1] &};
> Nest[Module[{li = #},
> (Union[#, SameTest -> (Module[{arg1 = #1, arg2 = #2},
> If[(*both expression contains both x and y*)
> And @@ (((((StringMatchQ[#, "*x*"] &&
> StringMatchQ[#, "*y*"]) &)@
> ToString@#) &) /@ {arg1, arg2})
> , SameQ[arg1, arg2 /. {x -> y, y -> x}],
> SameQ[arg1, arg2]]
> ] &)] &)@
> Union@Flatten@(Table[(Times @@ # &) /@ KSubsets[#, i], {i, 1,
> 2}] &)@Flatten@{li, Outer[#1@#2 &, funList, li]}
> ] &, {x, y}, 1];
> Select[%, (StringMatchQ[ToString@#, "*x*"] &&
> StringMatchQ[ToString@#, "*y*"]) &]
This does not even start running in Mathematica 6, let alone produce any
correct results. The first line was deprecated some time ago. I don't know
what is wrong with the rest of your program but it takes a while to produce
the empty list.
> The problem is this: generate a list of all possible math expressions
> using the following combination and rules:
>
> ? the math expression involves both x and y. (must have both present)
> ? you can use any of the 6 trig functions (you must, since the goal is
> to create all possibilities)
> ? The binary operations you can use are multiply, divide. (no addition
> or substraction, since that can make the result 2 terms)
> ? a sub-expression (such as x or y) can be replaced by a more
> complicated one. (i.e. you can nest)
Then your program should produce an infinite number of terms, e.g. x,
Sin[x], Sin[Sin[x]], ...
> The above i wrote in 2002. If there are requests, i'll translate the
> above code into emacs lisp.
A correct definition of what the program is supposed to do with a correct
implementation in any language would be a good start.
If you are trying to do what I think you are trying to do then this is a
trivial recursive definition in just about any language and it does not
take advantage of anything specific to Mathematica anyway.
--
Dr Jon D Harrop, Flying Frog Consultancy
http://www.ffconsultancy.com/products/?u
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 15 May 2008 12:30:31 -0500
From: "J. Gleixner" <glex_no-spam@qwest-spam-no.invalid>
Subject: Re: help with auth dbi
Message-Id: <482c7338$0$33229$815e3792@news.qwest.net>
joe wrote:
> Hello I have an old linux box I need to enable auth dbi does anyone
> know what sources do i need to do this? I believe I will need mod_perl
> and auth dbi and apache but havent done this before. Thanks.
First, what's your definition of 'auth dbi'?
Second, why do you think you need to have 'auth dbi'?
Third, start with your favorite Internet search engine and
when you have questions about your code, come on back.
Possibly, if you want to use a database of username/passwords
to manage access to your CGIs, then using something like
CGI::Session::Auth::DBI, might help.
In that case, use CPAN and consult the documentation:
http://search.cpan.org/~geewiz/CGI-Session-Auth-1.06/Auth/DBI.pm
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 15 May 2008 11:29:37 -0700
From: Keith Keller <kkeller-usenet@wombat.san-francisco.ca.us>
Subject: Re: help with auth dbi
Message-Id: <i1cuf5xbdl.ln2@goaway.wombat.san-francisco.ca.us>
On 2008-05-15, J. Gleixner <glex_no-spam@qwest-spam-no.invalid> wrote:
>
> Possibly, if you want to use a database of username/passwords
> to manage access to your CGIs, then using something like
> CGI::Session::Auth::DBI, might help.
>
> In that case, use CPAN and consult the documentation:
>
> http://search.cpan.org/~geewiz/CGI-Session-Auth-1.06/Auth/DBI.pm
There's also Apache::AuthDBI:
http://search.cpan.org/~pgollucci/Apache-DBI-1.06/lib/Apache/AuthDBI.pm
But, as you implied, there's no point in anybody guessing what the OP
is trying to do; hopefully these pointers will help him figure that out.
--keith
--
kkeller-usenet@wombat.san-francisco.ca.us
(try just my userid to email me)
AOLSFAQ=http://www.therockgarden.ca/aolsfaq.txt
see X- headers for PGP signature information
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 15 May 2008 13:27:10 -0700 (PDT)
From: chadda@lonemerchant.com
Subject: Need ideas on how to make this code faster than a speeding turtle
Message-Id: <53668582-db24-4534-8950-de30e9c96e10@k10g2000prm.googlegroups.com>
I 'll eventually have the input file filled with 350 million items.
Right now there is only one
$more input
3308191
The following program reads in the number from the file named 'input'
and builds a url form this number. Then it builds a url from this
number. I have lynx then dump the data into a file called 'out' and
then just grep the entire thing for the Product Number, Product ID,
SKU, UPC, and weight.
m-net% more parse.pl
#!/usr/bin/perl -w
my (@shit, $read, $build, @product, @id, @sku, @upc, @weight);
my $temp;
open(IN, '<', 'input') || die "cant open: $!";
$read = <IN>;
chomp($read);
$build = "http://www.doba.com/members/catalog/".$read.".html";
$temp = `lynx -accept_all_cookies -dump $build`;
open(OUTFILE, '>out');
print OUTFILE $temp;
close OUTFILE;
open(OUT, '<', 'out') || die "cant open: $!";
@shit = <OUT>;
@product = grep(/Product ID/, @shit);
@id = grep(/Item ID/, @shit);
@sku = grep(/SKU/, @shit);
@upc = grep(/UPC/, @shit); #this part doesn't grep UPC correctly. I
get some extra data after UPC.
@weight = grep(/Weight/, @shit);
print @product;
print @id;
print @sku;
print @upc;
print @weight;
% ./parse.pl
Product ID: 3308191
Item ID: 3653992
SKU: 8930
UPC: 896207999816 Condition: refurbished
Weight: 4.7 lbs.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 15 May 2008 14:21:23 -0700 (PDT)
From: chadda@lonemerchant.com
Subject: Re: Need ideas on how to make this code faster than a speeding turtle
Message-Id: <82786af9-f38f-46f6-acfd-251388941c50@l28g2000prd.googlegroups.com>
On May 15, 1:37 pm, Uri Guttman <u...@stemsystems.com> wrote:
> >>>>> "c" == chadda <cha...@lonemerchant.com> writes:
>
> i have to know if you could write this mess any slower? you are doing
> everything possible to slow you down.
I know I shouldn't critize free help, but you seem to have some anger
management issues.
>
> c> open(IN, '<', 'input') || die "cant open: $!";
> c> $read = <IN>;
> c> chomp($read);
> c> $build = "http://www.doba.com/members/catalog/".$read.".html";
> c> $temp = `lynx -accept_all_cookies -dump $build`;
>
> why are you calling out to a program when perl can load web pages just
> fine with LWP? did you even look for web stuff on cpan?
>
Would using LWP speed up the code? By the way, this code is meant to
run on a server with restricted access. Ie, I can't install stuff from
cpan on that server.
> c> open(OUTFILE, '>out');
> c> print OUTFILE $temp;
> c> close OUTFILE;
>
> c> open(OUT, '<', 'out') || die "cant open: $!";
> c> @shit = <OUT>;
>
> why are you writing out the output of lynx JUST TO READ IT BACK IN
> AGAIN? this is the most absurd part of this program.
>
> you have the text in $temp. you know how to use backticks but why do you
> do the file write and reading back in? if you assigned the backticks to
> an array you would get the same thing as in @shit without the wasted
> effort.
>
> also calling it @shit is not a good thing.
>
Huh? Are you saying I don't need the 'out' file?
> c> @product = grep(/Product ID/, @shit);
> c> @id = grep(/Item ID/, @shit);
> c> @sku = grep(/SKU/, @shit);
> c> @upc = grep(/UPC/, @shit); #this part doesn't grep UPC correctly. I
> c> get some extra data after UPC.
>
> that is a problem with the format of the html page. html isn't line
> oriented and you are grepping over lines. the proper way to deal with
> html is with a parser. or in special very well defined cases with
> regexes to actually grab what you want from the text. whole html lines
> are almost never what you want.
>
> uri
>
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 15 May 2008 14:32:50 -0700 (PDT)
From: chadda@lonemerchant.com
Subject: Re: Need ideas on how to make this code faster than a speeding turtle
Message-Id: <ad280c37-3e96-46a1-96a7-e93d25debf91@b5g2000pri.googlegroups.com>
On May 15, 2:21 pm, cha...@lonemerchant.com wrote:
> On May 15, 1:37 pm, Uri Guttman <u...@stemsystems.com> wrote:
>
> > >>>>> "c" == chadda <cha...@lonemerchant.com> writes:
>
> > i have to know if you could write this mess any slower? you are doing
> > everything possible to slow you down.
>
> I know I shouldn't critize free help, but you seem to have some anger
> management issues.
>
> > c> open(IN, '<', 'input') || die "cant open: $!";
> > c> $read = <IN>;
> > c> chomp($read);
> > c> $build = "http://www.doba.com/members/catalog/".$read.".html";
> > c> $temp = `lynx -accept_all_cookies -dump $build`;
>
> > why are you calling out to a program when perl can load web pages just
> > fine with LWP? did you even look for web stuff on cpan?
>
> Would using LWP speed up the code? By the way, this code is meant to
> run on a server with restricted access. Ie, I can't install stuff from
> cpan on that server.
>
>
>
> > c> open(OUTFILE, '>out');
> > c> print OUTFILE $temp;
> > c> close OUTFILE;
>
> > c> open(OUT, '<', 'out') || die "cant open: $!";
> > c> @shit = <OUT>;
>
> > why are you writing out the output of lynx JUST TO READ IT BACK IN
> > AGAIN? this is the most absurd part of this program.
>
> > you have the text in $temp. you know how to use backticks but why do you
> > do the file write and reading back in? if you assigned the backticks to
> > an array you would get the same thing as in @shit without the wasted
> > effort.
>
> > also calling it @shit is not a good thing.
>
> Huh? Are you saying I don't need the 'out' file?
Maybe something like this?
% more parse.pl
#!/usr/bin/perl -w
my (@shit, $read, $build, @product, @id, @sku, @upc, @weight);
my @temp;
open(IN, '<', 'input') || die "cant open: $!";
$read = <IN>;
chomp($read);
$build = "http://www.doba.com/members/catalog/".$read.".html";
@temp = `lynx -accept_all_cookies -dump $build`;
@product = grep(/Product ID/, @temp);
@id = grep(/Item ID/, @temp);
@sku = grep(/SKU/, @temp);
@upc = grep(/UPC/, @temp);
@weight = grep(/Weight/, @temp);
print @product;
print @id;
print @sku;
print @upc;
print @weight;
However, I don't know how to use LWP. Again, would the code run faster
if I used LWP?
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 15 May 2008 20:37:01 GMT
From: Uri Guttman <uri@stemsystems.com>
Subject: Re: Need ideas on how to make this code faster than a speeding turtle
Message-Id: <x7fxsje237.fsf@mail.sysarch.com>
>>>>> "c" == chadda <chadda@lonemerchant.com> writes:
i have to know if you could write this mess any slower? you are doing
everything possible to slow you down.
c> open(IN, '<', 'input') || die "cant open: $!";
c> $read = <IN>;
c> chomp($read);
c> $build = "http://www.doba.com/members/catalog/".$read.".html";
c> $temp = `lynx -accept_all_cookies -dump $build`;
why are you calling out to a program when perl can load web pages just
fine with LWP? did you even look for web stuff on cpan?
c> open(OUTFILE, '>out');
c> print OUTFILE $temp;
c> close OUTFILE;
c> open(OUT, '<', 'out') || die "cant open: $!";
c> @shit = <OUT>;
why are you writing out the output of lynx JUST TO READ IT BACK IN
AGAIN? this is the most absurd part of this program.
you have the text in $temp. you know how to use backticks but why do you
do the file write and reading back in? if you assigned the backticks to
an array you would get the same thing as in @shit without the wasted
effort.
also calling it @shit is not a good thing.
c> @product = grep(/Product ID/, @shit);
c> @id = grep(/Item ID/, @shit);
c> @sku = grep(/SKU/, @shit);
c> @upc = grep(/UPC/, @shit); #this part doesn't grep UPC correctly. I
c> get some extra data after UPC.
that is a problem with the format of the html page. html isn't line
oriented and you are grepping over lines. the proper way to deal with
html is with a parser. or in special very well defined cases with
regexes to actually grab what you want from the text. whole html lines
are almost never what you want.
uri
--
Uri Guttman ------ uri@stemsystems.com -------- http://www.sysarch.com --
----- Perl Code Review , Architecture, Development, Training, Support ------
--------- Free Perl Training --- http://perlhunter.com/college.html ---------
--------- Gourmet Hot Cocoa Mix ---- http://bestfriendscocoa.com ---------
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 15 May 2008 21:37:30 GMT
From: Uri Guttman <uri@stemsystems.com>
Subject: Re: Need ideas on how to make this code faster than a speeding turtle
Message-Id: <x7d4nnb65i.fsf@mail.sysarch.com>
>>>>> "c" == chadda <chadda@lonemerchant.com> writes:
c> On May 15, 1:37 pm, Uri Guttman <u...@stemsystems.com> wrote:
>> >>>>> "c" == chadda <cha...@lonemerchant.com> writes:
>>
>> i have to know if you could write this mess any slower? you are doing
>> everything possible to slow you down.
c> I know I shouldn't critize free help, but you seem to have some anger
c> management issues.
nope. i have bad code anger issues. i deal with this in code reviews all
the time. i just don't get how people come up with wacky and slow ways
to do things. i have seen worse code that read in files, parsed them,
wrote them out (untouched) and read them in again.
>>
c> open(IN, '<', 'input') || die "cant open: $!";
c> $read = <IN>;
c> chomp($read);
c> $build = "http://www.doba.com/members/catalog/".$read.".html";
c> $temp = `lynx -accept_all_cookies -dump $build`;
>>
>> why are you calling out to a program when perl can load web pages just
>> fine with LWP? did you even look for web stuff on cpan?
>>
c> Would using LWP speed up the code? By the way, this code is meant to
c> run on a server with restricted access. Ie, I can't install stuff from
c> cpan on that server.
if you have access to load scripts you can load pure perl modules
too. this is an FAQ.
c> open(OUTFILE, '>out');
c> print OUTFILE $temp;
c> close OUTFILE;
>>
c> open(OUT, '<', 'out') || die "cant open: $!";
c> @shit = <OUT>;
>>
>> why are you writing out the output of lynx JUST TO READ IT BACK IN
>> AGAIN? this is the most absurd part of this program.
>>
>> you have the text in $temp. you know how to use backticks but why do you
>> do the file write and reading back in? if you assigned the backticks to
>> an array you would get the same thing as in @shit without the wasted
>> effort.
>>
>> also calling it @shit is not a good thing.
>>
c> Huh? Are you saying I don't need the 'out' file?
yes. why do you think you need that file? you call backticks and get the
html page in $temp. why do you think you need a file to process that
data? you already have it inside perl.
uri
--
Uri Guttman ------ uri@stemsystems.com -------- http://www.sysarch.com --
----- Perl Code Review , Architecture, Development, Training, Support ------
--------- Free Perl Training --- http://perlhunter.com/college.html ---------
--------- Gourmet Hot Cocoa Mix ---- http://bestfriendscocoa.com ---------
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 15 May 2008 21:47:04 GMT
From: Uri Guttman <uri@stemsystems.com>
Subject: Re: Need ideas on how to make this code faster than a speeding turtle
Message-Id: <x7prrn9r54.fsf@mail.sysarch.com>
>>>>> "c" == chadda <chadda@lonemerchant.com> writes:
>> Huh? Are you saying I don't need the 'out' file?
yes.
c> Maybe something like this?
c> % more parse.pl
c> #!/usr/bin/perl -w
c> my (@shit, $read, $build, @product, @id, @sku, @upc, @weight);
c> my @temp;
c> open(IN, '<', 'input') || die "cant open: $!";
c> $read = <IN>;
c> chomp($read);
c> $build = "http://www.doba.com/members/catalog/".$read.".html";
c> @temp = `lynx -accept_all_cookies -dump $build`;
c> @product = grep(/Product ID/, @temp);
c> @id = grep(/Item ID/, @temp);
c> @sku = grep(/SKU/, @temp);
c> @upc = grep(/UPC/, @temp);
c> @weight = grep(/Weight/, @temp);
c> print @product;
c> print @id;
c> print @sku;
c> print @upc;
c> print @weight;
c> However, I don't know how to use LWP. Again, would the code run faster
c> if I used LWP?
better but forking off lynx is still slow. LWP should be much faster. if
you want speed (and with the data size you have, you want it), use LWP.
depending on how fast you need it (cpu usage will spike with the greps
you have) you can also change all that to parse out what you want with
regexes. (again, that assumes a known fixed html page layout which you
seem to have).
uri
--
Uri Guttman ------ uri@stemsystems.com -------- http://www.sysarch.com --
----- Perl Code Review , Architecture, Development, Training, Support ------
--------- Free Perl Training --- http://perlhunter.com/college.html ---------
--------- Gourmet Hot Cocoa Mix ---- http://bestfriendscocoa.com ---------
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 15 May 2008 23:57:44 +0200
From: "Peter J. Holzer" <hjp-usenet2@hjp.at>
Subject: Re: Newsgroup Markup. Was Re: Perl DBI Module: SQL query where there is space in field name
Message-Id: <slrng2pcep.ue.hjp-usenet2@hrunkner.hjp.at>
On 2008-05-13 13:49, RedGrittyBrick <RedGrittyBrick@SpamWeary.foo> wrote:
> "l) I'd prefer plain text markup of the sort used by GrutaTxt or
> ASCIIDOC but simplified. That way I could embed tables that work well
> in plain-text newsreaders but would also look pretty in any
> newsreader that supported that format." - RGB
>
> "That would be nice, but wouldn't you have the same battle on your hands
> that those pushing html currently do?" - szr
[...]
> This posting is written in a form compatible with Grutatxt. In theory a
> newreader could render it with the headings in various fonts and sizes,
> with the bullet lists shown with proper bullet characters and with the
> tables displayed in some more pleasing form..
If it recognizes the page as Grutatxt. How would it do that? The
mime-confoming way would be to use format=grutatext similar to
format=flowed.
> Is there any anti-HTML-in-newsgroups reader out there who finds the
> formatting and markup of this posting really objectionable?
I find the quoting objectionable. It's difficult to see that the two
quotes are quotes from previous messages in the same thread.
hp
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 15 May 2008 10:32:55 -0700
From: "Gordon Etly" <get@INVALIDbentsys.com>
Subject: Re: Perl 6
Message-Id: <693ae9F2tfol1U1@mid.individual.net>
John Bokma wrote:
> Sherman Pendley <spamtrap@dot-app.org> wrote:
> > Uri Guttman <uri@stemsystems.com> writes:
> > > in another post i pointed you to the perl6 wiki. and its FUD FAQ
> > > page will answer most of your negative questions:
> > Frankly, I'm beginning to agree with Ben - you're sounding awfully
> > defensive about this for some reason.
> From what I've read, written by Uri, it's somewhat his writing style.
I don't think it's just his writting style. Many times he just jumps in
to defend someone or something and often takes it way too far. He's of
the type that doesn't want to see things through any other lens than his
own.
> I wonder why people are so eager to get Perl6. It's done when it's
> done. What's missing in Perl5? A lot of Perl6 features are available
> via modules. Personally I see Perl6 more like a new language than
> more of the same (Perl). If you want to bite your teeth in a new
> language, there are plenty to pick from.
Yes, many features that were slated for Perl 6 have found their way into
recent Perl 5 releases (like 5.10, imho the greatest release to date.)
OTOH, Perl 6 has been in devlopement for a lot longer time than any
other other major release of Perl.
Yes it's bigger and perhaps actual code writting didn't start off the
bat, but taking over 8 years (vs the almost 2 years it took to create
and release Perl 5) seems to be very long for such a deleopment, even
for a team of just volunteers, and I think this is why many people are
becoming or are so concerned. It is indeed difficult to fathom what
could be taking so long :)
> And last time I checked, there was plenty of room for help *with*
> Perl. If I have more time available, I'll want to look into that.
> From what I've read so far, you don't have to be a rocket scientist
> to actually help with Perl6, there are plenty of things to do that
> require just some good programming skills.
Which scared me even more that Perl 6 will be huge, with features
bursting at the seams. At the very least it would be nice if they could
throw us a bit more bones as to what is going on, and perhaps more
people might get interested and help?
--
G.Etly
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 15 May 2008 18:04:02 GMT
From: "A. Sinan Unur" <1usa@llenroc.ude.invalid>
Subject: Re: Perl 6
Message-Id: <Xns9A9F8F17C2276asu1cornelledu@127.0.0.1>
"Gordon Etly" <get@INVALIDbentsys.com> wrote in news:693ae9F2tfol1U1
@mid.individual.net:
<snipped>
*** Keep a posting address and stick with it ***
!*!> PLONK <!*!
Sinan
--
A. Sinan Unur <1usa@llenroc.ude.invalid>
(remove .invalid and reverse each component for email address)
comp.lang.perl.misc guidelines on the WWW:
http://www.rehabitation.com/clpmisc/
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 15 May 2008 23:49:13 +0200
From: "Peter J. Holzer" <hjp-usenet2@hjp.at>
Subject: Re: Perl DBI Module: SQL query where there is space in field name
Message-Id: <slrng2pbus.ue.hjp-usenet2@hrunkner.hjp.at>
On 2008-05-13 11:35, RedGrittyBrick <RedGrittyBrick@SpamWeary.foo> wrote:
> szr wrote:
>> Sir Robin wrote:
>>> On Sat, 10 May 2008 12:23:46 -0700, Andrew DeFaria
>>> <Andrew@DeFaria.com> wrote:
>>>
>> [...]
>>> And there is no reason whatsoever why a newsreader should need to be
>>> able to handle HTML
>>
>> What reason is there not to, to be honest?
>
> Ooh, here's a few off the top of my head ...
>
> a) There's no single thing called HTML.
> HTML 3.2?
> HTML 3.2 with IE5 quirks?
> ...
> HTML 4.0?
> XHTML?
> CSS1?
> CSS2?
> HTML 5?
Given that HTML 4 is now over 10 years old and HTML 5 doesn't yet exist,
I don't think there's a real question about that. The level of CSS
support is more of an issue. But it's basically the same problem as in
the web - you need to produce code which can be interpreted by your
audience's software. So be conservative in what you send and liberal in
what you accept.
> b) At the moment, presence of HTML is a useful indication of SPAM.
On usenet? Not really. (Or maybe all the HTML usenet spam is filtered
before it reaches my server)
> c) Widespread adoption of (some variants of) HTML might end with many
> posts omitting any plain-text alternative parts. This might balkanise
> newsgroups.
True.
> d) Why not some other XML application like, oh, DocBook. Or maybe some
> new NewsGroup-article DTD?
None of them has any support in existing MUAs and NUAs. Several attempts
to define "richtext" content-types especially for mail/news have failed.
HTML otoh is widely used for email (as ugly as it may be for that
purpose).
> e) Why not RTF, PDF or ODF?
See d) and g)
> f) What if I want to read newsgroups on my phone or PDA using a
> low-speed Internet link - maybe bandwidth would be an issue for
> image-rich HTML or other formats.
Maybe. OTOH, there is little reason to assume that the average usenet
posting would be "image-rich". You could score down "large" postings and
only read them if they seem to be especially interesting.
And speaking of "phones or PDAs": These devices usually have a small
screen. HTML can be reformatted to fit on that screen. plain/text cannot
- it needs 80 characters horizontally (unless it's format=flowed, which
isn' too common, either).
> g) All too often I receive a word .DOC that contains just a 1 page
> meeting agenda in two fonts (title & body) - It just makes an extra slow
> step to fire up Word to view an attachment when the content would lose
> nothing from being presented as plain text. Why encourage unecessary
> complexity.
Right. So that's why you don't want RTF, PDF or ODF. These are too
complex to be embedded into a newsreader and starting a viewer takes a
lot of time. HTML is reasonably simple, there are a lot of engines which
can be embedded into applications, and even if you invoke an external
app that's relatively quick (I use w3m to perform HTML->Text conversion
in mutt - for most HTML mails that takes only a fraction of a second on
a PC several years old).
> h) The same reason I don't meed a surround-sound video-telephone when
> phoning a fried for advice about Java.
I find a telephone a very frustrating device when I want to communicate
about technical matters.
> i) The same reasons colour newspapers never completely rerplaced black
> and white newspapers I suppose.
>
> j) The same reason Gutenberg's Bible is a superior example of
> information publishing.
Superior compared to what? Contemporary hand-written bibles?
> I'm sure that neither it's aesthetics
The hand-written bibles were usually more beautiful.
> nor it's information content
The information was the same (except for illustrations, I suppose).
Gutenberg's bible was *cheap*. That's what made it a superior example of
information publishing - a lot of people who would never have been able
to pay for a hand-written bible could buy a printed copy.
I don't think that argument has any relevance to this discussion.
> k) Do you need me to add multiple fonts, tables, bullet lists etc to the
> above to make it intelligible?
No. But then you didn't have to explain any complicated data structures
or clearly distinguish multiple data streams.
> l) I'd prefer plain text markup of the sort used by GrutaTxt or ASCIIDOC
> but simplified. That way I could embed tables that work well in
> plain-text newsreaders but would also look pretty in any newsreader that
> supported that format.
Those are nice. But they have one very large drawback: There are about
46 gazillion different such formats. That's much worse than the
differences in HTML and CSS dialects.
hp
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 15 May 2008 23:52:46 +0200
From: "Peter J. Holzer" <hjp-usenet2@hjp.at>
Subject: Re: Perl DBI Module: SQL query where there is space in field name
Message-Id: <slrng2pc5g.ue.hjp-usenet2@hrunkner.hjp.at>
On 2008-05-13 12:58, szr <szrRE@szromanMO.comVE> wrote:
> RedGrittyBrick wrote:
>> szr wrote:
>>> Sir Robin wrote:
>>>> And there is no reason whatsoever why a newsreader should need to be
>>>> able to handle HTML
>>>
>>> What reason is there not to, to be honest?
>>
>> Ooh, here's a few off the top of my head ...
[...]
>> f) What if I want to read newsgroups on my phone or PDA using a
>> low-speed Internet link - maybe bandwidth would be an issue for
>> image-rich HTML or other formats.
>
> Which is why it would need to be crucial to have plain text versions.
> Admittedly that would only really work if there were some way a reader
> could ask the /server/ for /just/ the plain version.
Doesn't work with NNTP. But would work with IMAP, and an NNTP extension
wouldn't be that hard if there is need.
hp
------------------------------
Date: 6 Apr 2001 21:33:47 GMT (Last modified)
From: Perl-Users-Request@ruby.oce.orst.edu (Perl-Users-Digest Admin)
Subject: Digest Administrivia (Last modified: 6 Apr 01)
Message-Id: <null>
Administrivia:
#The Perl-Users Digest is a retransmission of the USENET newsgroup
#comp.lang.perl.misc. For subscription or unsubscription requests, send
#the single line:
#
# subscribe perl-users
#or:
# unsubscribe perl-users
#
#to almanac@ruby.oce.orst.edu.
NOTE: due to the current flood of worm email banging on ruby, the smtp
server on ruby has been shut off until further notice.
To submit articles to comp.lang.perl.announce, send your article to
clpa@perl.com.
#To request back copies (available for a week or so), send your request
#to almanac@ruby.oce.orst.edu with the command "send perl-users x.y",
#where x is the volume number and y is the issue number.
#For other requests pertaining to the digest, send mail to
#perl-users-request@ruby.oce.orst.edu. Do not waste your time or mine
#sending perl questions to the -request address, I don't have time to
#answer them even if I did know the answer.
------------------------------
End of Perl-Users Digest V11 Issue 1545
***************************************
